 This is a huge crowd, and it's not a surprise. It is such a privilege to be sitting down with you, Santa Maria. Thank you so much. Well, thank you so much. It's great to be in slush again. So, you know, at age 34, you became the youngest prime minister in Finnish history, the third female prime minister after a long line of men, and, you know, you took on a job that is typically the culmination of a long career in public service, and you took it on fairly early. So, I just have to ask, as an opener, what was it like to be thrust into that position? Well, of course, when you take that kind of position or job, you are never fully prepared. It's always leap to unknown. And then when you do the work, when you do the job, then you learn also what the job is. So, it's a leap of faith, you could say, as well. And we have had, in Finland, few female prime ministers, but if we look globally, the situation isn't very good. We have 193 UN countries, and only 13 of them are led by women. So the world isn't very equal on leadership, not now, has never been. And I only hope that we will see more female leadership in the world in the future. Absolutely. Well, you know, we're sitting in front of a very big audience of tech founders and investors and people who are really trying to knock down walls and also shatter glass ceilings. And I wonder if you have any advice for them? Well, my main advice is that trust yourself. Believe in yourself. If you are in a position where you are able to take a leadership position, for example, then think that maybe I am capable, maybe I can do this, especially women, many times, they question themselves, are they ready for that job? Are they good enough? Are they capable enough? Can they do everything perfectly? I don't think that men, and actually we have some studies about it, men don't think like that. They think that, yeah, I'm better, I'm the best one for the job. I think women also need that attitude, and they need the support, and also the encouragement of taking risks, taking new positions, taking leadership positions, because women are good leaders and they are good at their jobs. And if you are on that point where you could take that position, it's because you are good and you are capable. So I just say that, like, go for it. I'm sure you can. That's great. Thank you, Mark. You know, I also just have to ask, you know, you went through a lot. I mean, soon after you're elected, COVID took hold of the world, then you have Russia invading Ukraine, you have a very long and complicated relationship with Russia, you've got a very long border with Russia. Can you also take me back to that day when you had heard the news and what was going through your mind? Well, I can remember today vividly, like it was yesterday, because we knew back then, by then, that it's probable that Russia will attack Ukraine. Of course, it wasn't a surprise, but everybody hoped that it didn't or it wouldn't happen. But we knew we had to entail from the States saying that it's probable that Russia will attack. Actually, when you look now back, you can connect the dots what happened before the attack on Ukraine. So during that summer, almost half a year earlier, and during that whole fall, Russia used gas and energy resources, for example, to stop energy flows to Europe, making those energy flows go more slowly so that all the storages in different countries would go down, and that Russia could use energy as a weapon against Europe later on. So we can see the dots now. And also, Russia put many troops near Ukrainian border before. They said that it's a drill, they won't attack, it's a drill they're only training near Ukrainian border. Now we know it was a lie, Putin lied to everyone, and I know that many leaders were in contact with Putin trying to find the diplomatic routes out of the situation. Everybody tried to find diplomatic ways, peaceful ways out of that situation, and many people talked with Putin before the war started, before the full attack started, and he lied to everyone. So now we can see all the dots what happened before, and we have to learn from that, of course. I have said in many stages that Western countries, democratic countries, everywhere globally should stop being naive. I think we should wake up to authoritarian regimes, how they function, how they work, how they see the world, what is their logic. And it's very different from the democratic countries. We think and we thought in Russia's case that when we have very close ties and connection with Russia, economic ties, business ties, that would secure peace, because it would be so costly and so stupid to start a war. Like it is, it's stupid, it's unlogical from our perspective. But authoritarian countries don't think like that, so it didn't prevent anything. And I think the main mistake were made 2014 when Russia attacked Crimea, and Europe and Western countries didn't react strong enough. And I have also said this in European Council meetings in many stages before, that if we had reacted more strongly then, would more heavy sanctions show Russia that they cannot act like that, defend Ukraine in that moment and that position. I don't think we would have seen the full attack on Ukraine later on. I think Putin really thought that he can just walk to Kiev, people would welcome him, open arms, that the Western countries, democratic countries wouldn't be strong, that we wouldn't oppose those kind of sanctions, that we wouldn't support Ukraine, that we would take more notes on the business side, on economic side and we would just like leave Ukraine as it is when Russia attacks. So Putin thought that once again, like 2014, he can just walk in to Ukraine, do whatever he wants, it will be like fast two weeks operation, special operation as he calls it, but this wasn't the case. Now we acted united, we put heavy sanctions, we supported Ukraine from the get go, giving more weapons to Ukraine every day and making sure that they can cope. And they have shown so much heroism during these years, very hard times. They are really heroic and they have defended their country very heroically. And I think we have to do the utmost to support Ukraine from now on and make sure that the war can end as soon as possible. If there will only be some kind of peace, not created by the Ukrainian terms, only some kind of peace, then there will be a long period of grey zone and I think we would only see wars in that territory once more. So we have to make sure that we are supporting President Zelensky's peace plan, he has made his own peace plan that he has shown to the world and also they have demanded more heavy weaponry, more fastly delivered to Ukraine so that they can really defend and push Russian troops out of Ukraine. And I think we should all focus on this. To also show another authoritarian regime out there that it doesn't pay off to attack an independent country, that we will react, that we are strong and that we are not naive anymore. Well, I love your stance and of course one of your biggest achievements was securing NATO membership for Finland, of course that angered the Russian President Vladimir Putin. I am just wondering what do you make of the current prime minister's position, decision this week to close off the border entirely for two weeks to I guess stop what he said was asylum seekers coming into the country. Do you think that puts you more at risk down the road? Well, we have seen that Russia uses different tools to trying to shake things up in different countries and they have actually used migrants before and also Belarus has used migrants and we have seen these kind of situations in the Belarus-Polish border, in different borders where they are trying to push people out of their country to push them across the border. So they are using migrants, they are using asylum seekers this way and of course it's not acceptable. We have the legislation that enables us to close our borders. We created the legislation in our governmental period just in case that things like this should happen or would happen because we have seen Russia acting like this before. And another thing that we did because of the actions of Russia and what is the state of the country today is that we actually built a fence to the Russian and Finnish border that we didn't have before. We have had, I would say, functioning relationship with Russia for decades because we are neighbouring countries. We have a long border together so we have had to deal with Russia before and we have had good cooperation in the border before. But now things have changed and that's why also Finland has to prepare more on securing our own borders from Russia but I think the most important thing to make sure that we are secure and safe is that the Finnish border nowadays is an NATO border. You know, you've talked a lot about autonomy, you've talked a lot about people's sort of naivete when it comes to dealing with authoritarian governments and I know that that really factors into this universe, the tech world. Do you want more tech autonomy as well? You talked, I think, last year a little bit about Finland and Europe's more broadly reliance on chips from China, for example. And I just wanted to know, you know, one year on, if we were to sort of establish like a grading system, how you would rate Finland's progress from A to say, you know, F for failing, how you think you're doing on this front as a country? Well, I think Finland is doing actually quite well compared to many other countries. We have a lot of countries in the world that hasn't yet reached that kind of digital state and Finland, other Nordic countries, I think many European countries have that capability, has those capabilities and are capable when it comes to digitalisation and digital front. But still we have many things to do and when we talk about digital or tech, it's important that we don't only speak about the technology and the like things that you are creating, for example, but actually that we're talking about people because everything is to do with people. So I think when we look at tech or digital, the most important thing is to invest in people. In education, from early childhood to universities, R&D and new innovations and when we served as a government, we created together with the opposition parties then, so it was bipartisan agreement. We agreed in Finland that we are aiming to raise our R&D funding up to 4% of our GDP by the year 2030. And I think if every European country would share this kind of goal, that sounds simple but it's actually a very ambitious goal, then we would be better off. So we need the people, we need the talent, we need to know how, so we should put our money to education and R&D and there also comes the digital solutions, the new technological innovations that we will need, not only because it's nice to use different apps or it's nice to have these things, but I'm an optimist and I want to believe that technology can actually help us solving the big issues of the future, like climate change, loss of biodiversity, also dealing with many critical problems, for example, pandemics, et cetera, so we need the technical solutions, we need those innovations and we need to make sure that we also have the platform and the will to encourage building that. Absolutely, I think that that's roughly the same percentage of GDP that the US pours into R&D, so that's really great. You know, I just wonder also, how you'd grade the European Commission, we sort of watch and wait to see, you know, the US what the European Commission is doing in terms of, you know, the regulatory stuff. Yeah, well, I think we should work better together. In many ways, actually, the situation in Ukraine has deepened the relationship between Europe and the States, also Great Britain, so we have a lot of possibilities of working together and I think it's crucial that democratic countries will connect more, will cooperate more in all of the fronts that are critical to our societies. I see that European Commission, European Parliament, Europe as a whole, the whole, all of the institutions has a great role of making sure that we have good rules internationally when it comes, for example, big tech or development of AI or all of this, so we need the ethical rules and also the rules that every country in the world would follow and that they should or have to follow. But I'm also a bit afraid or not maybe afraid, but I can see a lot of risk there if European Commission or another legislative parties don't work with the entrepreneurs, business, private sector, with the companies because the development and the pace of development of new technologies is so fast that the legislation will always be behind, so I think also here cooperation is key and I would like to see more and more interaction and cooperation between private and public, especially when it comes to digital solutions and when it comes to new technologies. Absolutely. So when you came to power, you did talk about Finland sort of not being left behind and sort of maybe focusing more on AI and I just wonder now, there's so much good that we're seeing already from AI in terms of education and healthcare, but of course we're also hearing more and more about risks to humanity potentially in the very near term, so I just wonder if you've changed your mind at all about how you view AI as potential. Well, I believe in development and of course every technology or everything new comes with risks. There are always that negative side about everything, but there's also a positive side and that's why I said that I would like to see more and more interaction between the ones that are creating the technology that are creating these new things that will help us in many ways with legislative people that are planning and creating the rules for these technologies. So I would rather see cooperation and focusing on the positive also acknowledging that there are risks and that we have to talk about the ethics of these new technologies that there are also problems, but not treat the technologies itself such a risk that we shouldn't walk in that right direction because I think that it's inevitable and hopefully we could move from the discussion from, for example, is AI good or bad thing to more about how should we develop these technologies together? How could we make sure that there are more positive sides than the risks or the negative? Well, Finland has obviously always played a major role in gaming and mobile tech. And I just wonder if you think it can sort of, you know, in the future if you see it taking center stage in this technology AI or in another area? Well, I think Finland is doing actually quite a good job. For example, when it comes to quantum technologies, we are a small country. We don't have massive resources like United States or even big countries in Europe like Germany and others. But still we are doing a top-notch job with quite small resources. So I would also like to see here, as I said, cooperation between private and public. I would also like to see more cooperation between countries. Because if we would, for example, in Europe, have the big countries resources and use it in a smart way with cooperation with smaller countries, I think we would do better job. For example, Estonia, Finland's neighboring country, they are very high on technology and digitalization in the entire country, even though they are quite small. So also big countries can learn from small countries and small countries are doing amazing things with quite small resources. You know what's interesting to me? I love the work-life balance in Finland. And I also, frankly, love that there is this sort of a version to wealth, the very extreme opposite of which we see in the US and especially in the Bay Area where people I think are sort of valued by how much money they make. But I do wonder if that is sort of a gating factor to ambition here or to attracting and retaining entrepreneurs. Well, I think it's very important that you have balance in your life, whether it's work free time or work family life balance or balance in any ways. Because we are individuals, we are human. If you only work, you can work very hard for a certain period of time, but then you will burn out. So I think it's much more sensible, actually, to make sure that people are, of course, working. They are ambitious. We should encourage that, but that they will also have free time that they can spend time with their family and that they will have, for example, good paternity leave system in different countries. We also renewed the parental leave system in Finland in the previous government period where I led the government. And we made sure that more time is also giving to the fathers to spend with their small children. So the time that father have to have in this period, we prolong that and that also gives, of course, mothers possibilities to build their careers. So I think it works in both ways. Good for women in their careers, but also good for men in their family life so that they will also have the opportunity to spend time with their children. And I think I haven't ever met a single father who has said, like, I really regret spending time with my kid when he or she was small. Like nobody ever says that. Everybody is saying who has used these opportunities that actually it really gives me perspective and it also gives me a lot of drive going back to work but also understanding that other side of our family or our life. So I think it's very important that we will have more equal parental leave systems and more equal worlds when it comes to family life as well. I think the US could learn a lot from Finland. But I also wanted to talk to you about the fact that you're not a politician anymore but you are very much a political consultant now working for the Tony Blair Institute. Can you talk a little bit about that? And I also wondered what you made of the characterization of TBI, I guess it's called, as the McKinsey for world leaders. If you think that's apt or not. Well, Donate Polar Institute is working almost in 40 countries globally advising governments, advising head of states in different matters. Of course, it varies country to country. Whether it's to do with agriculture, technology or many things and my job there. I also do many other things that I love and I actually love the freedom that I now have after serving as a prime minister which I also appreciate of course so much. It was a privilege to be a prime minister in a period of time where almost everything happened. So it was really hard and really tough but still rewarding and I really appreciate that I have the opportunity to serve my country as a prime minister. But now I have of course more freedoms to do also other things. And I'm also open for new things. In Blair Institute, my job is to advise head of states, head of governments and also the governments on certain issues, meet with people. And you know when you are in that position of leadership, leading a country for example, nobody really understand that. You cannot read it in a book, you have to experience it. So leaders need that kind of interaction. To speak with people that really know the job, how hard it is and all the factors that you have to consider doing that job. So that's my job there but I also do many other things like speaking in different events and interact with people. I still want to change the world. I haven't lost my passion about the issues where I went to politics in the first place like fighting climate change, fight loss of biodiversity, working for a more equal world, working for human rights. I still have all of those passions but now different platforms to make an impact and influence. That's wonderful. Well, I mean you were so popular as a prime minister and I do wonder you're so early in your career in the wider arc. I mean are you interested in going back into politics at some point? I haven't said that I wouldn't ever go back. Like of course it's a possibility that at some day I might find that passion to pursue political career once again but for now I'm doing also something else and I believe that and I think this is a good advice for also to you that I think and I believe that you should always close some doors to open new ones. If you're only like building everything at the same time then you don't have the energy to focus on new matters and new things. So I believe closing some doors, doing something else, finding new paths and it has worked well for me for so far. So I never have had like five years or 10 year plan, career plan or any plan of that sort. I believe like opportunities will come to you and then you have the possibility to take them or not. You can always choose. Don't plan too much your life because life is always a mystery and it's always unknown and that's why it's so interesting. So wonderful to talk to you. Thank you so much, Dana. Really pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much. It was lovely. Thank you.