 Aloha, I'm Marsha Joyner, and this is Cannabis Chronicles, a 10,000 year artist. So tell me, Muse, of that great plant of many resources which wondered far and wide the ancient plant of food, fuel, and fiber cultivated for millennia. As we venture through the past 10,000 years, we will explore and discover the plant from which cannabis derives. There are many uses of the plant, hemp, cannabis, ashes, cannabis and religion, cannabis and medicine, cannabis and Uncle Sam. Oh dear Uncle Sam, and so our odyssey begins. Today our odyssey is not long ago and far away. It is current and in progress. Cannabis, which is a part of the hemp plant, has a long history as an aid or complement to inspiration in art, philosophy, music, and other kinds of human endeavor. The use of cannabis as medicine can be traced back 5,000 years. Interest in medical cannabis is currently on the rise in many parts of the world. Cannabis was and is a sacred plant for many people and has historically been used in religious ceremonies in many cultures from South East Asia to North America. Our guest today, Terry Heady, a Vietnam era Navy veteran with multiple sclerosis patient, a cannabis patient, as well as a cannabis advocate. For military veterans and young mothers to a Christian minister and former probation officer, the 100 Americans profiled in the book Cannabis Saved My Life, have starkly different background. Our guest today is one of those whose life was saved by cannabis. It's hard to imagine the unbelievable suffering that she endured as well as the courageous resilience due to the social stigma, the perils of illegality, and the disapproval of Western medicine when she turned to a controversial but age-old planet. So today, I guess, is Terry Heady, a dear friend, and as you may suspect, we have been Democrats for all of our lives, and so Terry is one of those courageous people that took a stand in this beautiful, beautiful book, Cannabis Saved My Life. So we're going to talk to her about how cannabis saved her life. Yeah, I'd be happy to tell you that story. I was a computer programmer, computer engineer. I worked for the government. I went in one morning, set my coffee down and my bagel down, my regular routine, getting ready to start my day, went to sit down, missed my chair, and somehow landed on top of it. I had an instant of paralysis and they came, took me by ambulance. I went and for months, we thought maybe I had some kind of orthopedic program, a problem. They gave me a lot of drugs. They put me in hot water therapy, one of the worst things you can do for MS. And nothing was working. I just could not get back on my feet. Now, I want to tell you what MS is. If you look around the room and you see these electrical cords, your nerves are covered by something called the myelin sheath. Now, my body thinks that sheath is a foreign object and it attacks it and just tears up that covering on the nerve. Now, just imagine that's what MS is. That's what MS is. Imagine if you walked around the room and ripped off all the electrical cord covers in this room, you'd have massive short circuits, right? And then after a while, when that, that starts to, it forms a lesion. That's what multiple sclerosis, Latin for multiple lesions. And that lesion is from where it is eaten away at the sheath. And then eventually with the MRIs now, which are much less dramatic than 20 years or so when I had to have a spinal tap, now the MRIs, they show up as dark holes. They call them dark holes on your MRI. Do I have a universe in my brain? I have dark holes. And it's a very debilitating disease. I have what's called a relapsing remitting. When I went into my neurologist, a military guy, and I shut my record in front of him and put my hands on top of it. And I said, okay, I've been doing some research. They're getting ready to medically retire me out. I'm a widow with two kids. I can't go. I've got it. He said, I want to try cannabis. And he put his hands on top of mine and he goes, you got nothing to lose. So I literally started smoking, which a lot of people cannot do by being a child of the 60s. You know, I was not, you know, it was not uncomfortable for me. And I, I smoked like a burning haystack, but within six weeks, I went from not walking at all to walking with a cane in six weeks. I have a theory that what it did was in your body, there is the endocannabinoid system. It has natural THC receptors that are there. So I have a theory that I went to pick up my cup with MS. Sometimes I think I'm holding it. I'll drop it. What I think it did was it saw that THC receptor when it went to send that signal, hold on to the box, don't drop it. It saw that THC receptor, boom, fired off and I ended up with a good signal. And I think that's what's happened. Now, once you have a relapse, though, I never went back to that level of fitness that I had prior to my first episode. So I am I try to make sure I don't go into one of those episodes. So how long has it been over 20 years? Wow. And I'm very, I mean, for a MS patient, I'm doing really well. I have some permanent damage to this optic nerve in this eye, the optic nerve being the biggest nerve in your body. So of course, it has a little damage. But again, it is mitigated by the use of cannabis. So you take it on a daily basis? Absolutely. Is there a regimen? I take it on a daily basis. I will I will consume over about a quarter an ounce a day. Is that a lot? Is that a lot? Right now, when a patient comes to me, I talk to them about micro dosing. Because when I first started this, I had no idea. And there's not scientific evidence available. I mean, you should be able to go to a PDF like a doctor has an or what they call it positions desk reference PR. And you should say, Oh, person with MS. Oh, we'll give them pill A and pill B until they all take those. Well, we don't have that, that accumulation of data on an MS patient. So I get it when they start out. Now I tell this micro dose as little as you know, take one hit, put it now, walk away, you know, we try to get on the micro dose. But we need doctors and nurses and you know, after all of these years, and we don't have those studies. No, we, we, because it is classified as that schedule one, people are afraid to touch it. A doctor doesn't want to touch it and loses license. A university doesn't want to touch it and lose their funding there for grants and other things. So that the improper scheduling is killing people. Well, and, and of course, everybody knows the schools, the medical schools are underwritten by the big farmers, pharmaceutical companies. So of course, they're not going to teach. They're not even going to mention it. They don't have a clue. And as we age, and you know this, as well as I, as we age, we can't do the pharmaceuticals like we used to when we were younger. My father-in-law had a very bad infection. They put him on an IV antibiotic. And next thing you know, he's having a martini with Obama. I mean, you know, he's hallucinating. I mean, and I thought that was rather startling because he's a Republican. So I know that we have a problem here. So this gives us another herbal remedy for our senior citizens that are going to be looking for something that is not so harsh on their systems. So when, and then it can you talk about the opioid addictions. Yes. That they want to, you know, it's always been preached for a long time. Oh, I don't want to pot cannabis, as we're calling it now, whatever you want to call it. It's it's one of those gateway drugs. Going to get you started on harder drugs. And if that was true, oh my goodness, I wouldn't be alive today. But what it does, and I've talked to other doctors about this, is it gives them a mechanism to get them off of the opioids, get them off, you know, into something that, you know, manages their life better. And I don't know if you've ever seen people that are on heroin, they use methadone to get them off. And methadone is a filthy chemical. And its withdrawal is even harsher than heroin. So to come up with something so much, you know, I obviously it won't mitigate all of the withdrawal symptoms. But we've the anecdotal evidence and the doctors that I've been talking to, they this helps their patients get off their opioids. Well, I was talking to a young lady at an event, she was asking if this was okayed by the FDA. And I said, Well, no, this is a weed, it's not a drug. And she's looking at me. And I said, Well, you know, aspirin is not okayed by the FDA. Right. She's really? I said, Yeah, and it was made from the bark of a tree. So then she's busy to start well. And then I said, Well, you know, opiates are okayed by the FDA. Now I ask you, ask you. So, you know, of course, I'm not selling anything. I don't have the wherewithal to do that. But it was just that conversation. And I realized how little or I know little, which is why we're doing the program. But how little other people and that's why this program is really helpful. Now, one of the things that we're talking about since we're on this kind of subject is right now, there is a, it's called the Medical Cannabis Legislative Oversight Working Group. It's Act 230230. It is was established by the legislature to develop and recommend legislation that would improve the medical cannabis dispensary system that we're trying to stand up right now. And if you go to that website, I gave you, they have a draft of their initial report, what's going to happen? And it's one of the reasons I wanted to mention it, because we're talking about regulation. And I was hoping that when it left the hands of Narcotics Enforcement Division, where it had had a home for so many years, that by going to the Department of Health, that they would have a more, an attitude of more patient-oriented attitude. And it turned out that they are mainly concerned about the regulation, the regulatory aspects. And one of the things they've done is that cannabis is not accessible, you know, to local residents. We're talking about, okay, if you do, go out and you get your card, which you have to do, and then you go and you get, okay, I've got my card, now what do I do? Yes. You know, now before I might, you know, you might have to see your, one of your friends might say, well, behind the McDonald's, there's a guy with a black truck, and da, da, da, well, we don't want to use the black market for medical purposes. Well, just to let you know that we did visit the laboratory. Nice. Steep Hill Laboratory. Oh, nice. And what I learned there terrified me, because we talked about this one man that died with cannabis, but it had more. Right. And so then I thought, oh, heavy metals, they were talking about heavy metals, pesticides and whatnot. Herbicide filth. Yes. You don't want any just dog to walk into your grow room when it's tail. And so I thought, oh, oh, I had never thought of all of these things. Yes. So then I thought, well, okay, I like the idea of a laboratory and a dispensary so that we don't get a wonderful job now because they can test patient products. I mean, that is like what a bone to patients. It is so that however, since 2002, the state says, okay, I can have a card and I can grow 10 plants. I don't know anything about growing 10 plants. Right. And if mole and pesticides and these things are an issue, how am I going to deal with that? What do I know about what's in this soil? Not everyone can grow their own medicine. It's like, do you ask people to go out and grow bark for their aspirin? Yeah. No. This is ridiculous. And since it's not accessible right now to local residents in Hawaii, it's not even really accessible even with our dispensaries open because right now they're averaging $500 an ounce. What's an ounce? An ounce, I should have brought one with me, but it is a measurement of, this is for edibles because I've been trying to, we can't even have edibles because they talk about packaging. And if you look at this packaging, this comes from California, I believe, and it says medical cannabis cooking on it, it gives the dosage on it, you know, things like that. And they have regulated this to the point where they're not even offering edibles at dispensaries and you wouldn't go in and want to smoke, buy flour and roll it and smoke it. You want an edible, you want an oil. I have pediatric patients with epilepsy that have great response. They want an oil or they want, you know, they don't want to, you don't have a good roller joint and smoke it. Okay. Well, listen, we need to take a break. We'll come back in a minute and we will talk more with Terry Headey about all of these wonderful things, medical cannabis, a double chocolate chip cookie. Okay. So thank, we will be right back. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. Sounds like scuba divers are the four man's astronaut. At Dive Heart, we believe that to be true. We say forget the moment. Dive Heart can help children, adults and veterans of all abilities escape gravity. Right here on searchdiveheart.org and imagine the possibilities in your life. And we're back and today we are visiting with Terry Headey, who is a cannabis advocate, a patient and a survivor of all things of MS. A retiree, medical, a man of Navy, Vietnam era veteran. That's right. And all kinds of wonderful things. And so tell us more. We were talking about the dispensaries and the dispensaries system. What tell us about? Yeah, what the idea is to be able to take your card and go in there once you get it and and buy the products you need. But right now, they've created a high grade and it's well tested, but a high grade, but it's a boutique item for sale. I mean, it's not something, you've got people here working two jobs, they fight traffic, they pay the highest prices for, try buying a gallon of milk. Right. You know. And now we have a local source of cannabis and it's priced out of reach. What are the prices? I went to the opening, the press conference for the opening. Yeah, let's say that line went around the block. Absolutely. But when they got inside to buy, like a person like me that consumes so much, five hundred dollars an ounce is just out of sight. I can go to the black market and buy twice as much. Top shelf, best stuff around for that kind of thing. Five hundred dollars and ounce. And ask yourself why? Yes. Because that's why, why this is supposed to, if this continues, dispensaries have not met the requirements of this Act 230 that I referenced. They definitely haven't met the requirements of that. But it's because of the vertical system they have in place. Now what I mean by that is that they put everything they have to do with the patient underneath that license, that one license for the dispensary, they grow it. They, if they create an extract, this is what an extract might come in, something like this, if they, if they, whatever they have for sale, they have to create it right under that one thing. Instead of a system that we envision to begin with where there would be local growers and there would be more competition, I mean, excuse me, if the dispensaries are raising costs to deter diversion, which is totally an off the wall idea, I don't know where they would get that, then increase license holders and put more dispensaries out there instead. Let's get some competition going and let's get rid of this vertical model that they have. Because if you live in Kahuku and you've got to drive all the way to King Street, not only is it five hundred dollars an ounce, but now you've got the cost of driving into town to spend a whole day away from work, to get here, get back. If you're a patient they can work. What if you're a patient they can't get out of the house? All right, they say that our caregivers, which they're talking about doing away with in 2018, oh, horrible idea. You do away with that, who's going to go grow for me, who's going to go to when I can't grow, get to the dispensary for me. What about our pediatric patients? You know, this is justice. To do away with caregivers, I'm a caregiver for my husband who's 86. Right. Now he doesn't have a card, but I'm still, if he did go get a card you would be listed as caregiver, so you could could help him out. We don't have delivery services. Most of the people in Conus, they have delivery services that will go out to a patient's house. They have patient services. One of the things we would like to get started with a patient who we hear, because for our patients that need to grow, we need to send out a consultant to get there, teach them how, get them going, because where do you get your plants? Yeah, where do you get your seeds? That's my question. You can't even get started. Yeah, that's how you get started. Right. And so that, that needs to be really addressed. If we are going to take care of our patients, we need to fix the system so that I can buy enough products that I don't have to worry about, okay, I'm gonna, you know, I'll try not to take too much today and I'll save some for tomorrow and that could send me into a relapse where I have not staved off, you know, what I wanted to. So we have got to ultimately affordability is affecting patients and we have to change the model so that patients can afford it. We have to change the model so they can get edibles properly packaged, properly marked, but you know, quite frankly, if a kid got hold of this cookie and ate it all and ate 10 of those cookies, they're not gonna die. They may feel sick as a dog, but they're not going to OD. If I leave my volume in my pocket, in my purse and the kid pops a couple of those or drink the whole, they're gonna die. Booze. People leave booze out all the time where kids have accessibility to it. We are responsible patients, you know, give us credit, you know, and diversion, that is not our, that's not our thing. What do you mean diversion? They are so afraid that I am going to buy products at their dispensary and walk out on the street. Now, I just paid $500 for this, so I'm gonna walk out on the street and I'm gonna ask you for six, I guess, because how can I sell this on the street at $500 an ounce? You know, no, nobody that is a patient is interested in anything. No. Except getting their medication. Yeah. It's, it's so. The health department has been lacking in so many areas, so I'm not surprised that they're lacking in this one. They don't believe in this. No, of course not. It's straight up. Yes. He said, uh, he's Ridley or, yeah, he says straight up that he doesn't believe in this as a medication and he's in charge of the program. I know, but he's miss the ball on nursing homes and other things. He didn't pass, so I'm not surprised. I'm just not surprised. It's really frustrating when you have patients like me that go to the ledge and I've been doing this for a decade and the patients don't like to go to the ledge. First of all, you're not really well enough. It's grueling. It is. It is. Even when you're healthy it's grueling. You gotta sit there for a long period of time. You can't always, you know, it's just not something that patients want to do. Now, tell me, because, you know, you and I have been through this democratic thing for, my party card says 1972. It's like, oh god, I can't believe I've done anything that long. But is there an organization, a cadre of cannabis users that can legislate, can lobby as a block? Well, that's, is it? No, there really don't. We, we depend on people like the Drug Policy Forum, Americans for Safe Access. So there is a huge need for a patient who we, to get started. And we, it's really difficult to go up there and lobby for this when we've had a good support from Senator Willis Sparrow. Oh, he's, he's been on the show several times, yes. And Representative Della Albalotti has, she has, I want to give her a mixed review. You know, well, that's what I've heard. Yeah, you know, I want to give her a mix. So we don't really have someone that's so solid for us, you know, to represent our cause up there, because they, it's easier to bargain us away. You know, it really is. We don't have, we don't have a voting block that they're concerned with. I think we need to identify patients as of, you know. Well, like I said, both of us coming from this, this kind of, this thought process, somehow we need to create an organization so that we do have a block. We need, okay folks, you heard it. We need, where did you put her email up? Yes, because we need people to, we need to form an organization of patients and caregivers if we are going to make this work. So contact me, get my, get my email up, contact me, we're going to get together and we are going to take care of this. We got this. We need to do this. We've got to do this. Yes. And you know, one of the things that is also people talk about is reciprocity. Do you know what that is? That is for people that might come here on a visit and they have a card from California or Washington or Oregon and they're in a system. We need to fix our system here so, and make it so robust and so, it's so healthy and it is easy to do with the software they have, that we can offer reciprocity to visitors that come over as well. Think about how many people come here. This is maybe the last trip they're going to make in their whole life. You know, they're going to come sit on the beach. Why should they be denied their medication? Well, we have to fix this first for our local people. And, and one, one thing in fixing this, we have to have edibles because most of us live in close proximity to our neighbors in townhouse and condominiums and all rental units and you can't smoke. So, if you're a patient, you need to get it in some other form. And it really bothers me about the reluctance because, you know, Department of Health, they are anti-smoking. Yes. Totally, you'd think they would be out front on yes. Edibles, edibles, concentrates. Yes. I mean, but they're, they're not, they're not. Okay. So, all right, for all of you, all two of you that watch, okay, you know what we need to do. We need to create a group of people, of patients and caregivers, and we need to storm the Bastille. This is an election year. All 51 of the House members are for reelection and half of the Senate. We need, and they all say they're Democrats, which is supposed to be progressive. You'd think this would be the easiest thing ever. Anyway, we need to create, we need to come together, we need to make this happen. So, what I want them to do is email me because we will get you in a database, in a list, and when legislation comes across this session, we'll make sure that you know the talking points, that you know how to submit your testimony, that we, you'll know what you want to say. We can help you with that. So, just email me. Right now we have a Hawaii patient writes who is in the works. And so, can you help me? Help. Help all the patients. Yes, yes. And again, thank you so much for being with us, each week. And thank you, Terry. You will come back again. Oh, as soon as the ledge opens up, we'll get some legislation we'll talk about. How about that? Yes, please. Here we go. Thank you so much for being with us, and we'll see you again. Aloha.