 Okay, good morning everybody. Good to be here. I hope all of you all are doing well. Had a good night rest for all of us who are at this part of the world and those in the rest waiting to have your rest too. I hope everyone's okay. We have a lean class today. Okay, and welcome to the learning students as well. Thank you for staying abreast with the course. Hope you are being just as blessed as we have been learning through very many different things in Christian counseling. So today we are, if we remember the last week, we're at week 13 of our class. And last week we had started on specifically different issues or special issues that we handle in counseling. And we're going to be continuing with that topic for the next few classes. We did so would like would somebody like to share what we did last week. What what were the two topics that we quickly looked into on how counselors can can help and what are the areas that counselors can help. Yes, anybody would someone like to share what we did yesterday for the last week for the benefit of those who are not able to come. Okay, memory lag. Can I call out somebody's name? So it's not to get you all to go away, but just so that there is some noise in the classroom. Who'd like to whose whose name shall I call? Kennedy or anybody else anybody else kishan anyone would like to. If you all did attend last week's class. Yes, yes, please go ahead. Thank you. You're the savior of every class. Have my notes with me so it's initiating action and it is implement plans and achieve goals for that we will develop strategy that is to think choose best fit strategy that is plan and formulate viable plans that is to manage. So we learned about bringing up possible strategies by identifying and choosing a course of action, then plan of action to reach the preferred stage. And here you will bring some to stimulate your thinking, they're not your thinking they're thinking prompt and fade technique you prompt a possibility. And then you suggest further. So, we help to find them a strategy to choose and follow. We also learned about strategy should be specific substantive, substantive, realistic in keeping with counseling value. So, this is what I've written so strategy should be realistic keeping up with the values of the counseling. And as we have we need to end list support. And then you gave some examples that if they have a poor social life we need and they need support we have to identify that. Who do you have to extend support whom you can suggest them to have an extended support helping them to work together in this as a counselor. Tap into their resources and help the counselor counseling choose best fit strategies resources personality values. And then we you gave a counseling model, where you were talking about attending responding personalizing and initiating. So we learned about the counseling model. Thank you. Thank you have any excellent good she just took you through that entire class so well thank you. Thank you. All right, anybody remembers what we did in the second hour I actually forgot that we did that up me thank you for reminding me. Yeah, so what did we do in the second hour. We did on special issues and counseling which were the two issues at least we, we looked into two issues we looked into two issues. Okay, if you can put it up on the chat that's also fine. If you don't want to unmute and speak you can at least put it up on the chat. Oh no. I got a question whether I was who I was talking to last week. We spoke about mental health. Yes rings a bell. Okay. Yes, mental health and we spoke about marriage family issues specifically to do with marriage and issues with children. We had a quickly brush through that last week. All right, so I won't waste any time. And we're going to go on to the next issues of counseling the abused. And if you're following with me on the book, you can follow through on page 45, 45, there will be a little additional things also that we're going to be talking about. Again, this is just for you all to understand and know a little bit more, but whatever is on the notes is sufficient for your knowledge and your understanding as, as beginners and as lay counselors. Okay, so we're going to be looking at counseling the abused. So, when we look at the word abuse, what, what do you think what comes to your mind first when, when you hear the word abuse. What comes to your mind and if you, if you feel you can bring about some kind of a definition or what an understanding of abuses that's also fine. What would you say, what comes to your mind when you think of abuse. It could be a situation, it could be some, okay, someone who's mistreated. Okay, Samuel said someone who's mistreated. What are the, what, what else do you that comes to your mind when you hear the word abuse. Okay, everybody wake up from slumber please. Everybody do a bit of arm exercises. Okay, so that you can stay awake. Abused is, sorry, what do you mean by abused Samuel. I think you answered. Yeah. So Christopher says violated Kennedy says misuse and Abina says treated badly. Okay. All right. So I think we've kind of got the flow of what, what abuse means. So abuse definitely is, you know, if you look at it in a dictionary, it is something, it is use misuse abuse. You know, something, some things that you do or a level of engagement that, that, that begins to that, that, that does not allow one to use something for its purpose. That's what if you look at the word abuse. Now abuse is, is a condition that can cause very significant and deep levels of mental and emotional trauma. And abuse affects many people at, at a, at a very core level. And those who may be abused begin to see the world as, as they have been treated. Okay, so abuse is any kind of a behavior or any kind of an engagement that makes use or not makes use or misuses. Abuse, somebody's will, somebody's body, somebody's safety, okay, with, without their consent. Okay. Now this, what happens with abuse abuse, like we said, when someone is faced with abuse, they begin to see the world from an abused image. And that begins to lower their form of how the person begins to see themselves begins to see the world, even the ability to trust that which is on the outside. So an abusive relationship can happen at different stages of life, or it can happen at any point of life, especially within relationships, it can happen during childhood, it can happen during teenagers, it can happen during marriage, it can happen during midlife, it can happen during old age. So abuse is when somebody misuses their power and control over somebody else, or without their consent, and of course uses force or manipulation. Something that we see of abuse is that it is often hidden for many years as you go in life. So to understand what abuse is, we're going to look through a couple of examples of abuse. But before we go through that, I just want to bring about that verse, which is in your notes on Isaiah 520 to 21. It says, what are those who call evil good and good evil, who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness, who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter, what are those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. So this is something that helps us see that a lot of people who are perpetrators of abuse feel justified or feel right in what they're doing in order to bring correction. But scripture does call it war, that it is definitely something that brings about judgment and that brings about pain if there isn't repentance. So it's not in the will of God that anyone should abuse another, whatever the reason may be, to bring somebody else under their power and under their control. Now we look at a couple of examples, but nevertheless what we are looking at is any kind of an abusive behavior can have a significant impact on one's emotional health, on their well-being, as well as how they view God spiritually. Not only at the time of the abuse, but also these impacts can have lasting effects throughout a person's life if these aren't dealt with or if they aren't healed or if they aren't processed. And that's why it's important for us to really look at it. So we're going to explore the different types of abuse. We look at the signs of abuse and in some way how counseling can really provide valuable support. So abuse can come in many forms and you need to be aware of what to look out for when you're recognizing some of these types of abuse. So let's look at the first one which is physical abuse and this kind of abuse is often related to violence. It's causing intentional harm or injury to another person through violence or through physical assaults. Now this physical assaults or physical abuse can include these various aspects, but it's not limited to this. There can be hitting, beating, pushing, scratching, burning, choking, throwing objects at somebody, biting. Now if you look at all of this again, it can be in various forms, in various intents, in various levels. But any of this that exerts power and control over somebody else is what is called physical violence or physical injury. Now physical injury, physical violence or physical abuse is not the only impact. The injury that comes from the physical abuse is not the only impact that comes. The victims often can feel a lot of shame, a lot of guilt over what is happening to them and they begin to tend to hide it from people outside. They're apart from guilt and shame and embarrassment. There can also be fear that actually limits or stops people from getting help and from reaching out and they are often also unable to articulate and bring about what's happening. And because of this, we do see often that a lot of times physical abuse generally goes unreported. People do not report this abuse. The times that especially, we've often seen when victims do not open up or do not reach out, it is generally found from let's say a help support system. Maybe because of the kind of physical abuse, generally if they were to go to a hospital or to a medical center, they would cover up the injury of saying that they got hurt or they had an accident. But often we find that a lot of medical institutions or the medical clinics are the one that actually report this kind of an abuse rather than a victim does report such an issue. Physical abuse is commonly seen among in marriages. It's seen in the elderly. It's also seen between parent and child. And of course, physical abuse, you may also find it in other adult relationships like the adult siblings, adult parents, and children, so all of that also is present in this condition. We'll go to the next one. The next one that we see is sexual abuse. Sexual abuse is any contact, any sexual contact that occurs between an adult and a child. Usually the age gap that we look for a child is 18 years. And when you're looking at this, it is usually without the consent of the other person that that becomes sexual abuse. It is a rape if it is with sexual abuse has to do all with any form of sexual contact. Rape also follows in this. But when we look at sexual abuse, we're actually looking at for those who are younger, the others would be sexual assaults, especially if there is rape or conditions like that that occur to an adult without their consent. So sexual abuse is often between an older person and a younger child and definitely one who exerts power to the younger child or to the child. Now, this is sex. Sexual abuse is sex without consent. And usually children and teens aren't the one who are able to give consent because of their primitive understanding and maybe knowledge of the interaction of the engagement itself. Also, if someone has forced a child into an intimate relationship or even if there isn't any kind of a coercive sexual behavior, even if they are made to watch something sexually implicit like pornography or engage in implicit sexual material, that is also a form of sexual abuse. So we treat sexual abuse. There is a range of it. Okay, so it can range from unwanted touching to to to photographing to being pressured to have a sexual act without consent. Okay, often we do see that many victims who do have who have been abused sexually will generally know the abuser. They often could be a relative. It could be a teacher or some form of a friend or someone associated with the family or the environment that the school is where the child is in. A common misconception is that only men can be can be abusers or can be the perpetrators and only girls can be abused. Now that isn't true. Actually, if you look at statistics and studies, there are, in fact, a higher number of boys who are abused. And a lot of that goes unreported because of the fact that, you know, sometimes because of the kind of stigma that it creates, generally, children may not open up or may not discuss about it, but more so among boys because of the social image of needing to be a man to bear up whatever comes to them. So that in itself keeps them away from really reporting that. So anybody can be a victim of sexual abuse and any anybody whether it's men or women can also be perpetrators. So the, so the what we do help and discuss with with families or with with children is that no one and and and I will come to that a little bit later should not be allowed to the child should allow anyone to touch them inappropriately at all and they should be empowered to do so. Okay. We, there are other conditions also sexual abuse, we also look at, you know, especially if family members abuses one another that's also called sexual abuse and it's often called incest. There are other conditions called exhibitionism, exhibitionism is exposing once private body parts to to others, especially to children that also becomes sexual abuse and pedophilia is having sexual engagement and contact just with children they all fall into the category of sexual abuse. I'll just go through these, these lists and then maybe come back and discuss some more, some more things with regard to this. The next we're going to be looking at is emotional abuse. And this is something that can often be very difficult to identify. Because there aren't any outward signs of the abuse in a physical abuse, you will find physical, you will find marks or any forms of injuries in injuries sexual abuse can be detected, especially if there is a sexual act that follows. However, in emotional abuse, there is there is no signs as no, no indications that the abuse has happened. And emotional abuse is usually seen or, you know, you define it as one where there is when, when again, this this is also a place where they gain power over the other through, however, this is through words and through gestures or through phrases and remarks. So when we look at emotional abuse, we can say that it can fall under couple of categories. Okay, and we look at three main categories, where one is emotional abuse being aggressive, where there is name calling, where there is accusations, where there is blaming threats, or criticism that is extremely destructive. So that can be aggressive form of abuse. The next would be denial, denying that in this it includes whether is neglect, there isn't this withholding of affection, there isn't any form of affection that is shown manipulation where situations and instances are manipulated. The third one is minimizing. This is what we what you include is what is included in is really insulting or or belittling the person's feelings or thoughts, or isolating and keeping them away, you know, when they are to respond, or when they are to ask for affection, accusing them of exaggerating their need. Okay, so it's so these three so it's aggressive, it's denying and it is minimizing. What is important to remember is that that there can be conflicts and arguments that happen between people and arguments and conflicts and even even criticisms that come are ways of interacting with others. But the difference between this two, like when you are interacting probably when you're having a fight with somebody, you may have some criticism or some things that you may say the clear difference between this and the emotional abuse is the way it makes one continuously feel. Okay, now, even if there isn't reconciliation, there isn't repentance from the perpetrator, it continues to make the victim feel extremely beaten down. They can they can feel a significant lack of self esteem and the lack of confidence. So, although there are those other forms of it, remember that that these are things that that differentiate the way that it makes the person feel, you know, on a continuous level. So, examples of this is examples of emotional abuse is being ignored, taunting, insulting, yelling, blaming, threatening, labeling. These are all different forms of emotional abuse. Okay, I want to add one more thing over here, which is not put up over here, but there is something that we also call is financial abuse. Financial abuse is when any form of financial information is withheld from. Usually these happen in dependent relationships, especially between couples and married couples, where there is withholding of financial information, so much so that it creates a sense of dependency, and, you know, in a sense of control and power and without without information without, you know, free access to finances, the other person is held in in captivity so much so that they cannot make independent decisions or do things independently, because there is a withholding of financial information or even access to finance financial money, money or wealth. Okay, so apart from that, there's one more that we will look into is neglect, neglect is again, very something that is difficult to identify, and because again, there aren't any signs of it. So, and this often occurs when, when there is a withdrawal of any kind of basic needs like food, housing, clothing, care, supervision, all of that where where it is, it is denied, or that there isn't a place that these these opportunities are even given. An emotional neglect happens when, when a person does not provide enough emotional support and deliberately keeps away from attending to the child and usually this is between a parent child that you see. So, neglect does not mean that if you don't give a child something that they want, you know, like they're asking for, for maybe a computer or a cell phone, and you don't give them that doesn't mean neglect, neglect specifically means not giving them the basic needs of their life which is needed for survival, not just for physical survival, but emotional survival that would mean physical survival is food, clothing, shelter, you know, education, also to some degree, and the emotional needs being lab safety security significance right so these are that again forms neglect. Okay, so I'm just going to stop here before I get into the next part of what is it that you can, what kind, what are the effects that that takes place as a result of these abuse but just quickly any questions on this. I haven't put the slide Christopher there's no slide. Okay, any questions on this. Okay, I guess not. All right, so we'll, we'll look at what are some of the effects that that happen when, when people are in an abusive relationship. So, one thing that we commonly see in most of these psychological effects also are emotional in nature. Okay, you would see anxiety as something that's very common among people who are abused. Those who've suffered abuse may develop these anxiety or fear of the situations that remind them of their abuse experiences. Like, I have, I have a person who, you know, a young woman, and has extreme forms of anxiety that at any point of time, she hears loud noises, or people talking in in a certain high pitch voices. Immediately, she breaks out into a panic attack because of the memories of what she has had in her past with with abuse being significant in her childhood. Alongside with anxiety, there can be issues with sleep, panic attacks, panic attacks again are very common. Common psychological effects that you can see in those who survive abuse that panic attacks are those who have intense anxiety, a feeling of being choked and feeling of having, having, you know, a death near death experience, and and a sense of heightened physiological, you know, mayhem that happens that creates creates a sense of, you know, as of losing control of themselves. So anxiety is one that is commonly seen. The other issue that you see is anger. Survivors of abuse can often develop anger at being abused. And, you know, the some when the situation gets worse, they get angry at themselves for beginning for being abused and it's it may it is necessary that you know that is when when they seek help to be able to manage their anger in a constructive way because otherwise what happens is this anger becomes manifested in their further relationships. And they begin to throw out their anger when frustrated and usually anger comes out in the most destructive way. So helping people who have the psychological impact of anger is best is to help them to deal with the dinner constructive way. The next effect that you would see is sadness to depression. We do see that a lot of survivors experience clinical depression with the feelings of sadness and loneliness, emptiness, because of which they aren't able to enjoy live state today activities, a sense and with the depression comes a lack of self esteem, a poor hit on the confidence inability to really experience joy in things of life because of the issues of the past. There can be mood issues, mood swings mood swings is a very common effect of abuse again, moving from irritability to to a depressive phase and having these swings can be something that is seen significantly other other psychological effects is something that we call as a post traumatic stress disorder, which is called a PTSD. And these are flashbacks, nightmares or, you know, common going back to those instances and reliving those instances and feeling a sense of significant stress. Despite it being over despite it, it having passed these nightmares and flashbacks do come to to almost, you know, oppress a person with who has been abused. Survivors of abuse can also develop addictions, like drugs, alcohol dependence, where they begin to, you know, these these can be destructive coping mechanisms, because of their inability to emotionally feel whole and feel strengthened. They choose to cope with with substances or with with alcohol. There can also be self destructive behavior, where they begin to inflict injury or not injury but but mild harm on themselves. It's called self harm tendencies, where they either burn or cut themselves with not burn or cut themselves not to the effect of killing themselves but the effect on the effect of browning down the pain or an or a tendency to be extremely impulsive, have multiple relationships, risk taking behaviors like multiple sexual partners, being suicidal, and also not caring for what happens in their life. So having destructive behaviors when it comes to their self, their hygiene, their career, their relationships, their money. So it all comes to a place of being extremely self destructive. Now these are the most common psychological issues that you would see in in people who have gone through abuse. Okay. Again, I'm stopping here. Any any doubts any questions on this. Just just to probably check with you all. Have you all come across people who have been abused in some form, either physical, sexual, emotional neglect, financial, have you all come across people who've been under an in and abuse of relationship? Or am I talking Greek and Latin? Yes. Okay. Okay. Yes. Yes, I think. Yes, Shay. Yes. I would like to ask a question. So the teenagers at my church, when asked if they emotionally abused, they see it when their parents compare them frequently, which is kind of like a norm for Africans, particularly my particularly my Oh, okay. So we're not alone. No, no, no, you're not. Okay. So the teenagers feel like they are emotionally abused. And to me, honest, I think I concur with them. But I just want to clarify here now that we're talking about this, do we term that as emotional, emotional abuse if a child is constantly being compared to maybe his or a sibling or someone who is doing well at school or doing well in sports or something or in character. Is that can you categorize that as emotional abuse? So if you look at it in the in the diagnostic term comparisons isn't put under specifically under abuse, it doesn't come under it. But it is definitely a destructive pattern. It's not something that enhances the growth of a child. So, although it isn't clinically put comparison isn't clinically put that kind of a behavior is not acceptable also so even when you're having parent child sessions or parent child workshops that's one huge point where we where we do mention where we bring about any forms of comparison is is not right is can be very detrimental to the confidence of a child although it is not clinically termed in as that, but that is a destructive pattern of parenting also say. Okay, is that. Thank you for clarification. Thank you. Anybody else has any observations or what you have noticed what you have seen or questions on what can be abused what what is not abuse. In marriages, I have been not talking to few women are who are going through this and so when you're teaching like I am able to identify like what exactly they are going through and you know how difficult it is for them to deal with it. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, and I think after this after I take up Christopher's question I would want to ask you all as to when people do come up and share and I'm sure people have spoken to y'all in some way or the other or you've heard from third parties about it. How would what are general ways that we tend to respond and you know I just want to hear that before we move into the next section. Yes Christopher go ahead. Yes, my question is actually more of a general question, you know around this scores and you know, our, you know, our capabilities and abilities to you know to provide a, you know, effective question counseling. So, as we are doing this course, you know, we've, you know, we've gone through, you know, areas you know where we talk about the counseling process, you know, you start up a human needs in the counseling process, and then you know some of the skills that we that we went through. And now we are going into some some areas that that may require counseling and areas where you know we could we could play a part in providing that that level of counseling. So my question is really about, you know, the knowledge that we have from this course. And again, I think I just form a knowledge perspective, I think, you know, some of the slides you had, I think were, you know, extremely, you know, illuminating. So, not sure that those could be could be provided to us in some form or the other or whether the notes itself can get revised and you know the summary slides and be inserted in specific places. So that is just on the on the knowledge side. On the knowledge versus practice, I think, you know, I think if it was if it was not an online course, I think we probably would have been able to practice more. And I can do a little bit of work play and, you know, do some border, you know, practical, you know, work on the subject. And I think where I'm coming from is actually around the boundaries where particularly early stages of you know, providing Christian counseling. We do coming from a very Christian foundation and, you know, references to the Bible, and where we will be, you know, we will go back and you know, we will get strength and also to be able to provide more effective for counseling. But I think the boundaries where I'm talking about is particularly in these areas because I think now we're getting into, you know, areas of mental health. We're talking about abuse in different forms. And, you know, we're still going to be some of these other topics that you're going to cover, which are, you know, around suicide and this bound these boundaries where we possibly need to be aware of where where we can really, you know, provide effective counseling, versus really kind of stepping back and you know, trying to provide more provide that person who is who's coming to us more professional help. Because, again, I'm not sure of the, you know, how much of counseling people have done or how they know whether there's been any professional courses that any of the other students have done, but I haven't done anything like this before. And particularly when we're talking about, you know, you're trying to help someone, but you know, this is getting into an area into areas where it can be quite, I think there are risks involved in a suicide and even mental health, say the wrong things and, you know, set up a whole chain of, and I see actions and events that could possibly happen. And that's where I'm coming from. Maybe, you know, something that you could cover in towards the end of the class. You know, what are the next steps? What, what, you know, where do we sort of, you know, sort of, you know, can I hand over to a professional and where do we sort of, you know, realize that, you know, this is as far as I can go. And, you know, I need to sort of step back and, you know, let someone else handle it. Yeah. So that's, that's an excellent question. And, and I think I just want to also put certain objectives as to why, you know, these things are included in here is one is to really build awareness among ministers and also maybe at this point of time, you know, you know, beginners in this very field. So one is just to build awareness and know that there is a lot of things that happen around, which we may be blind to or which we may see and which we may choose to ignore. But I think your involvement comes in a couple of areas is one definitely, definitely that you may not be able to take on someone who's maybe coming. Someone who's abused or someone probably who's suicidal into long term help and long term counseling. That's something it is important for you to understand when is the right time that they seek help from somebody who is more experienced in that level and in that field. Okay. But where does your support come from is to know that anyone in who's coming or who's who has a background of anything for that matter abuse mental health, marital issues, grief, suicidal thoughts, depressive symptoms, all require some emotional support and emotional support of some kind. And so what you're doing or what you're learning through this course is when someone brings up an issue to you or you notice something or someone has said something or in your spirit you do sense that somebody is going through something. It is to be in a place of active support system. Okay, where you're able to step in and be that support network that they can lean on to. Like I said, because a lot of times people may not be comfortable talking about their issues to their own loved ones and they're seeking for support and help so you could be the bridge or the person in between their next person to help. So you may not even be in a place of knowing how to help, but it is beneficial that they find a space where they can begin to share or begin to just feel a sense of safety to share what has happened. And, you know, maybe all that you can do is to support and to pray and to hold them in. But there is it where that that's that's your part that you can play and pointing them out to a place where they they can help and being and being in that place. As their accountable partner who sees them through that help or you know ensures that they go in to get that help or ensures that they they get the whatever support system that they need, rather than having to have them work alongside. Now, so you may say, why should I go through this entire course to be a support because even the way that you respond, you know, even some things that you say to them can of course can definitely lead them to a place of feeling confident that you are there by their side. And with their best interest in mind, even when you are just being a support system so I'd say this entire course not just helps you build awareness but also gives you a way to respond and helps you to react and respond judiciously, sensitively, and also wisely when someone is coming and share sharing with you and also to point them out into a right place where they can seek help. So, even when people do come to me if there are certain issues that I don't have experience with, I'm maybe there is a sounding board but I do this thing of you know, getting out a list of people that they can seek help from and moving them on to that phase and then just ensuring that somebody is that I'm there and I'm just going to hold them accountable to something like to that process of it. So that's as best as you can do. So if you all do feel so under equipped, it's a good thing to stand as a support system and to be able to show them or point them to the right door, point them to the right person that they can get help from. Okay, so that's that in itself is very significant because when people are you will find among the population, you will find at least a good 50 to 60% who are walking through different phases in abuse, and not really bringing it out. So just having a person to warm up to, or to just say, hey, you know, I noticed that you have a scar on your face. And that concerns me is everything okay, you know, even to probably ask that question. That's enough for an opening or to say, you know, I've seen that you've been quite low in the last couple of couple of weeks and or you've not attended class for the last week what happened that is in itself enough to have them bridge something with you. Okay, and so to equip you to be able to be sensitive and to be wise in the way that you interact and, you know, work alongside with them in whatever way that you can in the capacities that you can because I think that in itself is foundational to their next step, but someone has accepted or heard whatever they've gone through and then they can move into the next step. Okay. Yes, Anita, I think you have a question. Yes ma'am, I actually wanted to share my experience in the same like what you explained to us in that same thing. Like what you said is like I have observed like almost two couples where one partner is emotionally abused. Like, and it is like most of the ladies, they are the ladies who are like, and the husbands are sometimes they pay click like it was, it's a very rare case where we see that husbands behave like they are, you know, they are very, they are undervalued they have not been given importance and like for like for a child, if we don't give them importance, they start throwing the tantrums. And like that, like they are craving for the wives to ask them in every decision and everything without asking them it should not be done or money should not be even spent without their knowledge, though they are earning they are financially independent, but still they are they don't have that choice. And still like whenever they are doing anything apart from husbands like at at home and and they're not like paying attention to whatever he's saying like whatever interest he has in that if they don't show interest, they just bust like I've seen the couples like where they don't want to give their like for both of us like as a husband and wife when we are joined like whenever my husband is interested, I should show interest in there. And whenever I am interested in anything, he also should get involved a little bit, not to the core but a little bit just to understand what is her liking like that. But I've seen this couples where the wives are expected to so highly to take care of the household, to take care of the children even financially also. They are learns means they have done their whole of their life and they are really like, I have sometimes they are broke down emotionally sometimes very hardly even I keep myself in that place, I would have thought that I would have divorced, I would have I would have left that relationship something I would have done. But these ladies, they have stayed there, they made it fully successful look like to the society that their families are really successful in everything in every manner they are the ideal family, like that and I have been in that place to listen to them, like what what has hurt them, and what like what trauma they are going mentally I couldn't do anything, but I could just listen to them and just like console like just show them yes I can understand what you're going through. That's it. That's what I wanted to share. Thank you. Thank you, Anita for sharing. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, different forms of abuse. I know we've been talking about maybe some experiences here and you know, all of us will have some thoughts or some knowledge of what abuse is and how we have, you know, how it has damaged or been a part of that that sense of sadness. And depression or, you know, kind of an oppressive tendencies that may come up as a result of these these evil wicked ways of interactions. Okay, we'll stop for for a break and we will return back it's 1055 on my clock, we will be back at 11 five to continue on with the same topic.