 I see Corimundo with the agenda. Great. So let's start then. Hi everybody. Jeremy and welcome to the December 9 2020 edition of the UFC meeting. We are now officially more than one year old. We have been more like a year with this. So Yeah, let's get right into it. So first of all, let's get some new updates. It's, you know, since we didn't have a few of those. So Tim and I have, we got a new icon infrastructure match created on my team into Jenkins core. And some infrastructure to improve iconography into Jenkins. My team reduce some technical that there was. So now we can properly do it into it to to work on my guns. So I've been in touch with Amber Rooker. And one of the designer on the cloudy side for this for this project. And she's going to provide me with updated and animated versions of the icons of SVG icons for the status indicators. So that we can have those and at least do a performance test or a proof of concept with those rather soon. So we're working on it, we're working on it and hopefully as soon as I can I will hand them out to you teams so you can we can try it on your draft PR. Maybe we can put that into the draft PR here. You can drop it in a chat or straight into the notes then I'll. Yeah. Okay. And that's it for the status icons. We need to do as James not suggested last week, we need to do a load test with all the SVG animations. So the way we can do SVG animations for the in progress status icons is going to be a bit tough. Maybe maybe a bit tough on HTML on performance. We need to actually know what's going on there. Right. So any mention any and also to find out about this topic. I would like to my have been identified that it's a very correct. But it's a bit crazy right now Jenkins has six in progress items for in progress status based on the. So maybe we can that's something we can revisit. I was just looking at a page. What is it like, there's a page in Jenkins IO that shows you all of them. And yeah I was looking at them and yeah this is because the reason is that it uses the same icon is used to show the status of last week plus the in progress indicator so ideally maybe we can do some feature work into integrating those two maybe we can add a last week column, but I mean that would be for after we do some big iconographic work. And do you agree with this team. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so this is for the status indicators. We have a lot of scope for the marshal is here just we probably this is going to be, I think, in the end it's going to be how much we can get into the PR. But I think the real in the more realistic way I think it would be to create a first iteration with the status indicators. Because I think the other icons are too much. We didn't sort of mention these last last meeting so if there was no further discussion or maybe we don't have more information. Yeah here's the link to the Jenkins IO page. One thing I knew from the last one was that I got that draft PR working with things like the slash manage page and and it already worked on the icons for the weather and all and the build status that all just worked. I had to make some changes to manage because it was missing some of the compatibility ports that they have been added elsewhere already. Can you can you name it in the PR so I can open it in the video. Yeah, there you go. Okay. So this is the PR, did you update the screenshots? Were you able to update the screenshots? No I haven't updated the screenshots. I think I and did the group one is that group one was a black one which wasn't wasn't theme of all. I think the rest might have left the same I'm not sure. Yeah I mean you made some changes I haven't re-screened show the sums. Yeah I made some changes here. So basically we're working on this. We'll see what we managed to get done. But we tried to get as much polish as something. So can we move on to the next step or do you want to add anything else team. Okay tables to this. So the status of this. These are the, and there are many in progress items. There are not so many. There are some of them that are a thing are actually products that are not marked as in progress. These are the ones we created. And these are the tickets reported by the community. We have many, many fixes in review. Thank you. Thank you. And not so other ones not so much. But yeah, so what we're getting there. And on this topic, I thought maybe we could for the march release for the next ideas. I think what we could we could use having a young entry in the documentation page, or at least a blog post that would please plugins with no issues. So basically, if you have these plugins, you will have issues upgrading, at least the plugins. And if you have these plugins, you need to have these, these minimum versions and that is, for example, branch API to see to the six dot three. Yeah, what a list of plugins and the versions that are compatible so that we can help people and that's documented somewhere. So, yeah, if they agree, it's probably worth. I don't know because a lot of that's just before upgrading to the next LTS you need to update all your plugins. We could certainly list ones that had issues, but there's also a whole bunch of the spring security upgrade and extreme upgrade also requires that a lot of plugins be updated for it to work. We're not sure if there's any queues benefit in listing exact fixed versions. Possibly it's worth an entry of update your plugins but I think the list is just going to be so long that it's just, you need to update all your plugins. Ideally, we will have fixed most of the plugins by the time the next LTS is out. I wouldn't think too much about it yet. If there are still ones outstanding we should publish a list of plugins that don't have fixes and if there is progress open then we can link to pre-release versions that can be used. Yeah, that can be a good idea. So, but there will also be the case that there can be a bit of a chicken and egg problem, for example branch API update with huge plugin, huge plugin with this, yeah, because it's the UI to break, noticeably, to say something. But the version with the fixes is not compatible with the previous LTS, right, the 263 line. So it can be a case of unit upgrade plugins then upgrade Jenkins and then upgrade plugins again. Yeah, the same case though with Spring Security I think too. Most of the Spring Security stuff got staged in a way which published a last compatible version, but then you'll find that there's one, there's cases where as soon as you upgrade, there'll be new versions for it available. Yeah, but probably should go into the upgrade notes that upgrade all plugins before you upgrade, upgrade, upgrade all plugins again. Well, I think that's inevitable. Are these plugins backwards compatible so somebody can go in, upgrade all their plugins before they do the actual upgrade or not? Some of them are too complicated and some of the maintainers just move them just because they don't want to have to deal with it. So we recommend what, so step one, upgrade all plugins. Yeah, step two, upgrade. Well, it's a whole upgrade guys. I wouldn't worry too much about it now. Upgrade all plugins again. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to ask Mark wait for whether maybe he has. Yeah, we should definitely start alerting the community earlier. I mean, it's probably good that they hear this message twice rather than just, you know, in small letters in our release notes, you know. Well, it goes into the LTS upgrade notes or upgrade guide. It's quite standard for anything that is any breaking or changes with who might have to make changes. But I think it's just too far away to be concerned about it right now. It's three and a half months. And in that time, I would hope three and a half months. I thought it was like that. Well, it's much, but it's probably when the week end of February. But yeah, three and a half months. It's like two and a half months then. Yeah. Yeah, there's still some time but not too much. Okay. Yeah, it's a nice point to hopefully get a number of them fixed and then we don't have less to be published. Okay. Yeah, Jenkins. So to move on to another topic to that topic so based on James notes comments last week he opened a thread on the main list. I will try to finish it later. I think there was no consensus to bump into a major version, but there were some major consensus that we should change the version format to more of a yearly month, year month. Can you can you just elaborate on this? Yeah, I've been monitoring it. It's waiting for more consensus. Is there a link to the mailing list thing that I can just drop in this agenda. The main problem with the monthly model is how does the LTS version fit into that? Because it's not because the LTS version is based off a cut of a weekly version. So you do like 2020-12, but it's not actually released till 2021 to which version do you pick? I think we would need the special naming for the LTS versions. We don't need to call them animals like Ubuntu, but we need to do something. Yeah, it's also, is there a large enough benefit in changing? I don't know. So yeah, it's looking into how other products do it as well. The main thing is like version numbers as meaningless as possible, but also enough that you can reproduce a bug. Yeah, because right now I think it's a bit meaningless in my opinion. Because I mean, when you go from a 260-something minor, it's a bit... My personal opinion is I find the versions very hard to remember what's what. I mean, I think if we went for more of a free eye, four eye, it's a little bit... Now, once you get past 263, you know, it's hard to... At least it gets harder for me to remember. I mean, our version starts to look like IP addresses rather than, you know... Especially because it did happen this year that we chose a version. A bit of a version, I don't know if it was later or sooner because it would be too similar at the number. It would be confused with a previous version. We had a problem in the Windows installer where our version number was too high for the minor version. You could only get up to 256 or something. Right. That's fine. There was another place you could have a display name, apparently. And I think we just had it reset on the... We basically bumped it down another version, I think. It's like 2-1 something in the thing. And then we put the Jenkins version in the display name. Yeah, I guess 8 bits for the version. Yeah, exactly. So the consensus on this is that we need more information, right? Yeah, I'll try to take a look at it soon. Okay, because I think we... I think it was all I could mention that maybe we should freeze this until the new board and previous officer are instated. Yeah. It makes sense to me. We want to discuss it with a wider audience as well. Yeah. It's on the mail in us, but... I don't know what meeting topic just to discuss it. Okay, so I... We run out of topics. Is there anything else anyone want to... Is there anything... Any other item somebody wants to place? Let's start on the agenda. Is there any core issues that we need to triage from tables to devs? I don't think so. I don't know new ones that I found. And I did look into this one. This one is really concerning to me. I did look further into it. Basically, drag and drop is broken. So sometimes it seems drag and drop is broken only when there are... Whenever you have a lead on the drag and drop list, there's something that breaks, then drag and drop breaks. Because sometimes I got fixed whenever I upgrade the plugins, the drag and drop, I got it working. Other times not. So I have this in my... In my eye too. I'm going to take a look at this probably later this month. So I will spend some time diagnosing this one. We will probably want to replace the drag and drop infrastructure for the next 30 years. But we will also take some plugins again though. I kind of also wonder how much drag and drop is actually used. I wanted to create lots of models to bounce stuff up and down. Because to be honest, it's really... Even if you get to work somehow, it's not a good experience to drag something that's taller than your screen. No, I don't think I'd be dragging more than a line. It's the sort of thing I could say if you're building a pipeline in a visual UI, and you're like reordering steps maybe. But I just can't see reordering a config page. Just does not seem sane. Yeah, because for example, I have found the case that we're working on now. Another small screen either. You can get all blocks. For example, when configuring... When configuring JDKs on the Global Tool Configuration page, you can easily have blocks that are taller than your screen. Why would you need to reorder that? Well, now you can. One fix is just to make some stuff not... I think there should be flags already, which means that you can't reorder them. Yeah, but for example, on build steps, there are build steps that are just big. Lots of parameters. For example, build a step that can publish to somewhere and you can input credentials. Plots. It's like two pages of a config page. Yeah, definitely. We should... I'll try to fix the random drop, of course, but then maybe we can also improve it by adding a small r-rows up and down next to the items so that you can actually click them. Yeah. And maybe run them up and down. I think that would be a good idea. Sounds good. Okay. Okay. So, I think this is it, right? I think we have covered all items. Just a quick question. The next meeting is on the 23rd of December. I'm not sure whether we should cancel it or let... I'm not sure what I'm going to be available. I'm not sure what are you going to be available, Felix? Or should we just preemptively cancel it? If we just postpone it until January. Just cancel it because there's one other one in two weeks. Yeah, I mean, exactly because next one will be the 30th of December, which is also one of those dead days, you know, where... Yeah. I'm off work with them. I don't have any planes from the 21st to the 24th. I don't know what I'm doing then, but I might do stuff. I think I'm... I don't know what I'm doing yet. I'm going to take probably from the 20th. I might be there, I might not be. I mean, we could just do it and if it's a very short meeting, it's the short meeting. Yeah, I think we should cancel the... Yeah, we should talk about the 23rd. Maybe we can discuss it a few days before on the later channel. It would be interesting if nobody wants to... If nobody wants to join, we can do an async update on the later channel. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And same for... Leave it open for now then. Yeah. Let's all remember to clarify this in two weeks. Okay. Might be my last meeting of the year. I'm not sure what I'll be there. Okay. We'll have a great rest of your week. Weekend. Yeah. Same. You too. Bye bye. Bye. See you.