 Okay. So, shall we go ahead and get going then? It's about five after. I think Taylor, you would volunteer to share the meeting notes, is that correct? Or did I miss here? There we go. Thank you so very much. I do appreciate it, Taylor. So, we, as usual, we start with events. So we have recurring events. You can get them on the network service mesh community site. So there's this meeting that happens every week at ADM Pacific Time on Tuesdays. We also have an NSM documentation meeting that happens in the same time slot on Wednesdays every week. And an NSM use case meeting that happens on the second, fourth, and fifth Mondays, between at the ADM time slot Pacific. And on the Mondays, you don't have that. You have a sister organization, the CNCF Telecom users group that happens on the first and third Mondays at ADM. All right, excellent. And then coming up, we do have some talk proposals in, I believe, for DPDK users space in Bordeaux, France, coming up in September. We do have a request over a direct message from the OpenCore Summit folks, asking if people would be willing to submit a network service mesh talk. So if you are interested in going to OpenCore Summit in September in San Francisco, please do submit a talk. We've got the Open Networking Summit Europe coming up in Antwerp, Belgium. That CFP is closed. We have a number of talks that have been submitted about NSF, NSF plus CNFs. We've got Bratislav has submitted a talk on the forwarder plus kernel efforts. Ivana has submitted a talk on SMI plus NSM integration. So there's a lot of exciting talks happening there. We have the OpenCore Summit coming up in Lyon. And Nikolai, Bratislav, and Ivana are submitting talks there, I believe. Do we know what those talks are about, Nikolai? Yeah, so mine was about sharing my experience for building CNF on top of NSM and VPP. OK. I also believe that they submitted a joint talk. Is anyone of them here? Yeah, we submitted a joint talk with Ivana. That is an introduction to NSM. Awesome. Intro talks are always good. And it helps getting them from multiple different perspectives. Because the more ways that these things get explained to people, the more that we capture up on YouTube, the easier it is for everyone to wrap their heads around it. Not everyone understands everything in the same way. And so having different perspectives is super helpful. So we've got Iszacan coming up in Sofia. And it looks like Ivana, you have a talk that's accepted. Is that correct? Do we have Ivana on the call today? No, but yeah, her talk is accepted. Awesome. It would be great to get a link to the talk here. Yeah, OK. And did Bratislav also have a talk submitted? No, I didn't manage to submit one. This happens. Yeah. OK, that's cool. Yeah, the link would be great because then it becomes easier to promote it in social media and that kind of stuff. All right. So we've got the KubeCon coming up. And that is closing very quickly in 10 days. So we should probably do put together a shared doc and get that out to the mailing list and start collecting clock ideas this week. So we can talk about them in next week's meeting and make sure you get them in. We do get at KubeCon either two 35-minute tracks or one 85-minute talk for network service mesh by virtue of being a CNCF project. In the past, we split these into two 35 minutes, like an intro and a deep dive. I think, Nikolai, you were advocating, I think, quite wisely, that we may want to combine them into one longer talk. So that we can definitely also sort out and we need to figure out what that looks like. And then I do want to make sure you've got here, Nikolai, you and Yang, you are submitting a talk for KubeCon North America as well. Yes, and there is essentially Taylor. OK. There was a tiny bit of ambiguity. Cool. So I'll try and get out today the sort of the traditional let's all share in a doc ideas for CFPs. So folks will collaborate there together. We definitely can. It often helps. And if you just want to submit your own talk without participating in that process, please feel free as well. Anything that gets more talk submitted is good for us. OK. Yeah, actually, the deadline is next Friday from what I can. Well, 10 days. Yeah. So we do have to get on that. But we still have enough time. I think we need to pull together. I'm wondering, can we can we do panels? So like, I mean, because essentially, if we're getting one, like 85 minutes, like long, like the birth of a feather type of session, maybe, I don't know. Yeah, I think we should. And I think we should probably get that a little more organized than we traditionally have in terms of finding a place and that kind of thing. Yeah, OK. My main question here is, do you think that we can have the three of us like me, Fred, and you getting together in a single session? Because that's actually probably not the three of you. But OK, we can discuss this. Yeah, I'm more than happy to try and facilitate that in a number of ways. I know in the past, we've been able to use various sponsor rooms and that kind of thing. So absolutely. Cool. All right. And then we also have coming up the co-located event at EnvoyCon. And that CFP also closes next Friday. So it might be interesting to see if it makes sense to submit some talks there, particularly around the wiring at Envoy. Envoy in as a network service, that might be a very interesting talk. OK. That makes sense. Yep. So I'll actually just stick that in there about it. All right. Then coming up shortly after that, we have Edge Computing World happening in Mountain View December 10. That still hasn't quite got a CFP. And there's Edge Congress happening in my hometown of Austin, which means probably we should do something there. At least I should do something there. And anyone else who decides to come to town to do a talk there, I can definitely hook you up with the best barbecue in Texas. The other reminder I would suggest here is, and we can particularly pass this on to Havana. She has a talk accepted. If we're going to have an event within NSM presence, it's always good to push a PR to the site that will provide an event page for that presence. Cool. I'm still waiting for EasterCon to publish their schedule in order to add it. Oh, perfect. That's completely fine. And sometimes events do take a little while to get those published. I just want to make sure that we're in a good position to promote your talk. Cool. Anything else on events? Any other events that we should add to our list? What about FDIO mini summit? I don't think we're going to have an FDIO mini summit at the KubeCon North America this time. OK. Have you heard about the LFN cloud native network network index? You mean the ones that are being done at various locations all over the world? Yeah. We had one at the same time as the FDA mini summit in Barcelona. So I didn't know if there was going to be one. I've not heard anything about whether there will be one or not, frankly. OK. I'll try to find out about that. That would probably be good to speak out if it's running. Yep. Cool. Awesome. So Lucina is sadly not able to be with us on the call today. But she did tell me that she's updated the social media reporting. So we do have 265 followers. That's up seven. We're following 1324, which is up 100. We've got 22 new tweets in the last week. And we posted about the new website, the CNCF tug call, and retweets about various other conferences like OSSEU, CNCF, K8s, SMI, et cetera. So and Lucina has gently nudged us that she would like to know about when she can tweet on the new release. And then I believe we have coming up today. Is this correct? A OBS orbit podcast interview scheduled? Is that right, Nikolai? Yeah. But we're probably going to postpone it because it was supposed to be me and Fred. We're probably postponing that. Cool. Awesome. So all right, so moving on then. The new website is live. Many thanks to Luc Perkins for the new website design. And so I know there are a lot of people with small myths. They wanted to see fixed on the page. This is that small thing. So let's get the PRs in for further improvements as we move forward. So then Nikolai, you wanted to talk about KubeCon China updates. Yes, and I believe that we have someone here that can help me a little bit. Yeah, we have Jason with us. OK, so the event was really nice, although shorter than what was planned. We had a really long discussions with a number of members of the community and interested in actually network service mesh. These were mainly people with, I mean, mainly Jason and his colleagues. And actually, one of the things that we wanted to discuss was to try to set up every other week to have 30 minutes, like my morning call, like your morning call, so that we can make life easier for people in Asia to be able to bring up topics, ask questions, and things like that. Yeah, I mean, apparently this call is late for them. Like it's probably... The unit is late, yes. Yeah, so that was one of the things that we kind of came to some conclusion there. So I am willing to organize that, but it will be probably sometime August, maybe second part of August due to some holidays planned here. And maybe we will schedule this if no one has any particular objections. I would like to use this same call so that it can get recorded and eventually the meeting notes too, so that we don't split over too many places. And the main target is really to just give the voice to the people from that time zone. And yeah, I think that probably it could make sense for some people from Zort also to join if they wish, but I guess that this is up to... Yeah, I think this is a super good idea. There are sort of standing time zone challenges. Yeah. That... I mean, there are a bunch of things where you want to try and make life as reasonable and easy for folks who'd like to participate in Asia because we do want to be a global community. I think these are super good ideas on how to go about it. And sort of the only feedback I personally have is actually purely mechanical, which are things like if we've got the videos online, let's get them up on the events page on the Wayne site. So when people go look at the event on the site, they can get to them. If we're going to go and do an Asia friendly call every other week, that's awesome. Let's make sure that we get it listed on the site properly so that it's easy for people to find, you know, and so that folks like Lucina on the social media side can go ahead and tweet it. You know, I think this is all just pure goodness. Do you have anything you want to add, Jason, since you're sort of helping us bridge this gap? So can you guys hear me? Yes. Oh, cool. So basically, so I do think this is a very good idea because, I mean, this for summertime is okay because it's close like say 11 p.m. to midnight. But when it comes to winter, then you're going to be to 1 a.m. So it's really, I've been like say, went through a little bit of harsh time since I started joining this community, like say, last year, last year, December. So, yeah, I really appreciate it. Nicola, I can bring up this idea and because I know that because I noticed that for we got few, I'm not sure how many people in this community right now are will like say, enjoy, have better experience if we have a Asian friendly call. But I do believe that if we provide this kind of certain opportunities and we're going to attract more people in this time zone around this area so that to make their life easier. So yeah, that's it. Yeah, I think a very good idea. And I think we can start trying to run for, like, say and see how it works and to see that we can like to attract more people to bring their attention and to make their life easier. Yeah. No, absolutely. It's a great idea. Cool. Thank you for bringing this up, Pegalai. I think it's really good. Yeah, OK, this is this is on my on my list and I will follow up with this. Other than that, OK, as we said, videos are online, so I had to do my intro. I mean, the NSM intro talk on my own. Fred didn't didn't make it. And overall, overall, they were interesting talks. I really recommend for people interested to check out at least the keynotes. There are really interesting things going on there. Everything is there. Just just check it out. And I guess that that's that's more or less on the China updates. The telecom user group was there. A lot of people I met some some people from other communities. Actually, I met. I forgot the name, the guy, the guy from Conti VPP. We had a really interesting chat about how things are going, how we are using VPP. And he also showed some interesting integration with visualization of like, gathering some statistics and data through Prometheus. So. Awesome. So, looking back again, do you know Goliath on the Andromeda release? I did go through this morning and try and clean up the backlog a little bit. So it should be in a little bit better shape if we want to discuss it. Yeah. Okay. So we hit so moving on to the to the Andromeda release. So essentially, we had a we had a chat with Taylor the other day, like in China, we met there. And we had a chat with Taylor. And what we discussed is that we should just like just just just tack whatever we have. I mean, we have moved very far from from that branch point, which was probably more than a month ago. Yeah. It's beginning of July. I guess that we branch sometime in May, I think. In any case, we are very far from this. So, so let's just just just brown. I mean, let's just tack whatever we have there, upload the images to docker hub. So my plan was to actually just archive the our Helm charts and add them as kind of release binaries and maybe get something from the release notes, whatever we have there and just just upload it and just say, okay, that's it. Let's move on to the next release, which I think that it should be the one thing I actually want to try and get done is and I'm very close to going to get done is this cleaning up of the docker repos so that we don't have tags in the production repo. And the patch that I have for this right now goes ahead and pushes the right repos. And then I'm sort of sorting out a couple of issues with the tasks still. But I think I've actually got those sorted. So it was just normal CI instability stuff that I was hitting with this before when I was pushing it to master. Now I'm in the process of getting ready to push it up to the zero dot one branch, which should be very similar. And from there, you know, from the zero dot one branch, then we should be able to, you know, get this all ready. So we got all the pieces pushing out of the repos correctly, etc. So I would like to take one more week to get that done if that's okay. Okay, I was just thinking that maybe with the zero dot one branch, we can just do things by hand. Like just, just talk and, you know, I'm completely fine with you on the doing things by hand. The trick is right now we push every CI tagged binary to. Oh, yeah, I see, I see. Yeah, I mean, I don't expect anything to come there. I mean, I don't expect any further further builds there. But yeah, okay. I mean, if you because I assume that that the current status is that we have moved like your patch should be very far from whatever we have in the release branch. But it's actually shouldn't be hard to backport because it doesn't really do that much. It turns out that part of my confusion was the hooks that I needed to actually point to a particular repo were actually already in place. And so I first tried to reinvent them and then I discovered that by reinventing them, I had broken the ones that were already there, which was amusing. And so now I figured that out and moving forward. Cool. So I think we're more or less in line. Let me get this one last thing done. So we have a clean repo or clean registry. We can stick them in and then I'm perfectly fine pushing the pieces by hand. Okay. Cool. All right. Which brings us around to everyone's favorite topic, the roadmap discussion. And I guess the. I copied it over from the way it was previously. But I think that maybe we can potentially trim some of the pieces going forward and or figure out how to put together a roadmap doc. I know we had a little bit of discussion about this, putting together a roadmap doc on the docs call. And I know that I had. Put together the technology tree, which we looked at and put together a roadmap doc. So I guess the question is, like, Do we want to actually, how do we want to proceed with this? So I can tell you that having something that's clearly articulated. And, you know, just like shows like dates, releases, et cetera, even though I hate product management, and I definitely don't want to volunteer myself with this. Help with some of this. I mean, yeah, and I'm dead serious. Like that is literally like my least idea of fun. But I just as someone who's messed around with Istio for quite a while. And I know this is being recorded and I like it. I'm not bashing on him, but the roadmap has always been kind of all over the place. And I'm just like, just, I have felt a lot of pain. Due to their main branch for rarely being stable. Because they constantly have an influx of new features without a very, you know, defined. Clear cut. This is coming here, here, here, you know, we need to be stable by this point. So I think a roadmap where we have like clearly defined goals. And it also means that certain people can kind of pick and choose when and how heavily they get involved based on like feature X is coming, you know, and release Y and et cetera. But I have seen other open source projects kind of fall apart because it's just kind of the wild, wild West as far as feature releases go. And, you know, the roadmap changes because some big new customer comes in and says, Oh, I really want this. And everything else falls by the wayside stuff like that. So I guess the question is, are you aware of any open source projects that do this particularly well? Because, you know, because I mean, well, I would say Kubernetes does a pretty good job of it. Let's say that the Linux kernel does a semi decent job of it, but it literally has like an entire nation's worth of people. So I guess the question is, are you aware of any open source projects that do this particularly well? Because, you know, it does a semi decent job of it, but it literally has like an entire nation's worth of people. Like, you know, writing it. But I mean, yeah, I'll be honest. I mean, in Kubernetes is by no means perfect. But like, if you look at like how they have is like this features in beta, this features in alpha, this one was just released, you know, this is what we're striving for to get released. I mean, do they always hit their objectives? No, but like, you kind of have an idea at least to some degree of what's coming and when, right versus, I don't know, I'm going to go ahead and poop on own app, right? Like, I mean, you have no idea what's going to happen. Like it could, they might like completely rewrite the entire back end one weekend and not tell anybody. I mean, I don't know, like. They've been fairness to own up when you have as many moving parts as they have. Super challenging. Well, and that's, that's what I'm saying, right? It's like that is an example of when the good idea fairy without a clearly defined roadmap can get you in trouble, right? Not having like the proper gates in place. Because own app is cool because it's microservices, right? Well, the problem is, is microservices just keep getting jammed in there and, you know, microservices keep getting changed and there isn't like this really well laid out. And I mean, it's been getting better, but that's, I think Kubernetes is an example of people who do less terribly and own app is an example of where things can go horribly awry. Okay, okay. Is there a particular Kubernetes roadmap document that you could point us to that you particularly like? Because I'm very much in the market for let's find someone who kicks ass and copy them. Yeah, that one. I don't know. I tend to just read the release notes. Also, just so you just for your information, Linux is the largest nation. Kubernetes is the second largest in the open source world. It's the second largest open source community in, in existence at this point. Sure. But like in the case though, Linux is like China and I don't know, Kubernetes is like Belgium. Like it is insane how many people like pull PRs on the kernel. Yeah, that is true. All of the drivers are belonging to them. Cool. All right. So I guess the, the, I wouldn't keep raising this and we'll try and get something pulled together. That we can sort of look at in point two. So if you guys have things that you don't feel are represented in the technology tree, I think it's generally writable. Let's try and get them collected into a picture there. Cause I do know we have some other specs out there. Like the, there's a, there's a spec out there to look at, basically having a selector based on network characteristics rather than just round robin. Just as an example that sort of looking at very interesting things. Cool. Anything else on forward roadmap stuff before we move on? Nope. Maybe, maybe just mentioned that the DNS thing is moving forward. If for people that are not monitoring our PRs, we already have some work done there, which looks very promising. There's, I think also work in progress on the security that's getting very close, which is super exciting. Really? Is there a PR? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. There's a PR. Oh, okay. Yeah. And also the inter domain. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, my understanding is that the, the inter domain stuff is now, it has now been witnessed to be working between packet and AWS, which is super exciting as well. I just want to, I think that I have posted some comments at least on the DNS, maybe the inter domain. Okay. I don't know, but I mean, I just would like to go for, for documentation there. I mean, these are, these are really interesting features. What's of people are going to, to just look at how these things work and want to use them. So we really need the best documentation that we can do while developing it. Yep. I, I, I think that's, yeah. Yeah. I think that's actually probably pretty important to get the documentation right. So yes, let's definitely do that. Especially the DNS, I think people are going to want to understand how it works just because it's important to them security. Likewise, people are going to really, really care because people are going to be taking a look at the security and how it's done. So I don't know if you have seen there was an announcement, I think yesterday. That Lincoln completed a since he has sponsored security audit or something on those lines. So, you know, these things happen and yeah, if we are moving forward, we'll probably have to face this at some point. So, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Good. If we could, if they, if the list is made public, if we could get a list of that and see if we're making any of the same mistakes. Yep. My guess is from previous dealing with previous security folks. It kind of will probably depend on how serious the problems are when they get made public. Cause I know that typically if you've really screwed up, the nice security people will tap you on the shoulder privately first and give you a chance to fix it. 30 days. Now, the reasons I'm sure are nicer than that, especially since the source of the money probably came from the CNCF. Well, I mean, plus I expect the most CNCF projects behave responsibly. I do spend some of my life hanging out with pen testers. And their basic position is, yes, we give you a deadline. If we actually believe you're moving expeditiously and you say, could I please have 45 days instead? Most pen test, most folks doing security, you know, finding security exploits are going to be pretty kind. It's when you just ignore them that they go nuclear on you. Cool. All right, then. So anything else that folks want to cover today? Otherwise I'm inclined to yield back the time. Maybe we should touch briefly on the fact that the use case call is frozen for July. From what I saw. Oh, then we definitely should update this. And we, is that reflected in the use case calls? Meeting notes. So if somebody follows the meeting notes link, they, they know that. I see two links here. So I'm not sure which one is actually. Yeah. So what is a doc? The other is also a doc. So we don't seem to have a link anywhere there to the actual meeting minutes. So let me see if you can find that on the community page. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So. The current community page is just reflecting. Next meeting of June 24th. So if it is going to be on hiatus for July. So we should probably ask Romkey if you would please update the meeting minutes to reflect that. So that people don't just arrive and find an empty room. Cool. Right. Anything else before we conclude. All right. Thank you very much. What you guys next week. Thank you guys.