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Now, one of the other great things that you're going to spot on our Facebook page is a great competition that we are currently running. Every single weekday, you have an opportunity to walk away with 500 rounds in cash. And all you have to do is to comment on the pinned post on our Facebook page. Tell us some of the great property advice that you have picked up while watching the show. And if we call your name, then you send a chance of walking away with that 500 rounds. Remember, the trick to winning is not only entering as many times as you'd like, but also making sure that you watch us live so that you can claim your prize of the money. And that's some of what you can look forward to right here on the private property podcast with myself as I'm doing on Kumailu. We will be announcing that lucky winner a bit later. In the meantime, I can see some of the love that we're getting on our Facebook page through Lusimania, sending those green hearts, playing on Gossi Gleid trend that do keep the love coming. This evening, we're going to be talking about some of the, you know, we're going to talk about a topic that I nerd out over quite a lot. We're looking at prop tip solutions for the real estate industry. I'm joined this evening by Gavin Musso and Levin Booth, both from Wealth Migrate, the CEO and the head of product. And this is something that, you know, many of you at home know every time you speak about prop tech and we don't do it often enough. I certainly always get excited. Gentlemen, good evening and thank you both for joining us on the show this evening. I thought it was great to be here. Thanks for having us. Good evening. I'm happy to be here. I think before we even start, and I'm going to start with you again. If you could probably just give us a nice overview of, you know, where South Africa's prop take will say advancement is, especially relative to some of the markets, you know, US, UK, Australia. Where would you say that we effectively are at? I think we're early on in our journey. We're doing quite well around the investment space. So we're actually doing a lot around the property investment space. Obviously, we do that. So that's the area that I'm quite well versed in. But added onto that, a lot of what you're getting out of some of the international arenas are like so much automation in terms of how you're able to run your property as an investor in an actual physical property, how you can automate your control and running of that, how you're collecting rents, those sorts of things. There's a lot of those solutions out there. I've started seeing a few more pop up here and there. I still think we're early days. There is people with a lot of funding internationally that are further along in their journey. I think, generally, the South Africans, we've got a spirit of we'll get it done somehow, the Bajoko by Kroka means. So we tend to catch up almost as an aside. And I actually want to bring you in because I love what Gavin has mentioned that sometimes the purpose of not being an early adopter is actually also able to just learn from what other people in other markets do. And I think that's actually more exciting. I always say, especially when we talk about this topic, that there's no reason why a bridge being built in South Africa, any part of the continent for that matter, should collapse because bridges have been built all over the world. It's not rocket science anymore. They knew and novel about building bridges. And I think in many ways, with some of the PropTech solutions, one could argue that we're somewhat on the same boat by the time they hit our shores. They're not going to be necessarily new. But I think what are some of the opportunities that you're seeing, especially for the local markets and given that we haven't adopted some of the technologies and systems that other colleagues and certainly some of our counterparts in other markets have already done? Great question. I think PropTech has to do more than just take an old way of doing something and put it onto the internet. It's actually got to revolutionize. It's got to change an industry to really, I think, earn that title of PropTech. Otherwise, all you've done is taken something you used to sign on a document by fax and now you're emailing it to putting it on an internet. That's not revolutionary for me. And I think that's where PropTech has the most potential is to change the game of how real estate works, how property management works, how property investment works. And I think that's where the opportunities in PropTech lie in South Africa as well. Enabling you and I to do something that we would never have been able to do before. And I think Gavin's right. I think Airbnb, if I can use a very stereotypical example, none of us used to easily be able to rent out a room in our house or rent out an investment property. The hotels had kind of a market on that. But because technology came along and made it easy for you and I to do that, the whole industry revolutionized. And I think the examples like that very much in the investment space and the space we play in, but also in, for example, student accommodation where you can do things that are much quicker, much more efficient. And therefore, you can do it at a lower transactional cost. In other words, in areas where the rentals are lower because you're not paying as much away to a manager or for fees or for advertising because the PropTech has brought that cost down, getting technology coming into these lower income spaces as well. So I think that's the key is does it revolutionize whatever market it's trying to plan? I'm this evening in conversation with Gavin Rousseau and Lyndon Booth from Mouth Migrage, looking at PropTech solutions for the real estate industry. And of course, we'll be taking your questions and comments this evening as we explore some of these. And I want to point out from your home, if there've been any PropTech solutions that you've seen on the market that you've really enjoyed and perhaps you've even started using some of them in your own property portfolio running your property business, what are they? We talk a lot about systemizing the way that you run your property business. Some people are more hands-on and lack trying on these different solutions. And others want to outsource as much as possible and have somebody else who uses those solutions to run their portfolio. No one weighs better than the other. It really does depend on the kind of investor that you are and how close you want to be to your property portfolio. Gavin, I want to point out from you of the solutions that we've seen in South Africa. I made a half a joke earlier when I was saying that there's no reason why a bridge should collapse that we build in the country or anywhere in the continent because it's not rocket science. The reality though is that we've seen quite a lot of PropTech players locally get burned, bring something onto the market and sometimes it fails very early on. Others, they fail after quite a significant amount of money. It's kind of gone into pumping up that particular startup and I'm not going to mention any names. With some of the ones that have not done significantly well, I can already tell you with some of them, I could tell early on that that was not going to succeed or not because it's necessarily a bad idea, but because it isn't addressing some of the fundamental pressure points that local property players have at the stage. Perhaps there are some of the mistakes that some of the players are making when it comes to bringing on solutions, wanting to copy and paste stuff from abroad, but not adapting it sufficiently to the local markets. I'll start with your example of we can't build a bridge that collapses because we know how to build bridges. There was quite a revolutionary bridge built not too long ago in a tiny little town called Ashton. It was possibly the most over-engineered bridge I've seen in my life. It was absolute work of art, beautiful. The way they've done it from an engineering perspective is phenomenal. Do I think it was entirely necessary to have done what they did? I don't know. That is not for me to say, but I'm not sure if you followed it at all. There was an element of them moving an entire bridge from one location to another over the course of two days. It's phenomenal. It's a first on the continent. We are able to be at the cutting edge even of an industry that has been around for a long time, as you say, building bridges. It's a small example, but it's great. In terms of the areas where people are potentially not doing well, we have particular needs. Again, I'll talk from our investment location, our investment space. A lot of our investors and the clients that we serve have a very particular need that they would like addressed. One of those needs is that they actually don't want to be two hands on. When you're putting together an investment property, in order to start an investment journey, you want it to be quick. You want it to be easy. You want it to be simple. I'm sure most of your listeners will be of the opinion that buying an investment property and then managing said investment property yourself is none of those things. That's actually really hard. To build tech around that, it's an incredibly difficult thing to do. I think it takes a lot of funding. It takes a lot of outreach to get a lot of people involved to make sure that it's effective and is actually addressing the needs of the people that need those needs addressed. It becomes reach. That's why most places aren't going to succeed, is if they're unable to get the required reach. You need to be able to speak to the people where they are, the way they understand, and they need to understand the value of what you're adding. I think the days of build it and they will come, that's gone now. There's no one believes in that anymore. You've got to build it quickly and make sure you can fail it quickly and make sure you can adapt it quickly. You can't get those right. You can't adapt to the needs of the market. I realise that was a really long answer to a very short question. I apologise. No apology needed at all. I like this idea of how you've differentiated. It boggles my mind that there are still people who have this type of perception and not just when it comes to project solutions in general, but also when it comes to the way that they go about developing that build it and they will come. Except we are now at a stage, if you look at how, for instance, bullish building is costing developers quite a significant amount of money. Building that isn't justified by really solid market analysis that says that this is where you ought to be building. This is how much you should be building. This is the type of property that you ought to be building. We're seeing a lot of sectional titles being built very bullishly and we're seeing them of course not getting sold. It's because they were not building in the best phases and sometimes some mixed-use developments, unfortunately, they were starting with the wrong type of property instead of starting with the different type that was going to generate the right kind of income before moving to the next asset type. Those are some of the things that I think are so crucial when it comes to managing our property portfolios and making data-driven decisions in your property portfolio and running your property business. In the meantime, I want to take a quick break. We're going to be coming back to this conversation, looking at property solutions, what we can look forward to and of course looking at after the break, going to looking at how then wealth migrate is different. We're talking about some of the players that have not done well in this field. They've been around for quite a significant period of time and have done quite well in making sure that they maintain really good books and their portfolios also them or rather they've managed to do quite significantly well. In the meantime, we're going to find out who the lucky winner of the, I think it's 500 rounds. We're back to 500 rounds in the money bag this evening is and if they're watching, they're of course going to be able to walk away with it and after the break, I'll also read through some of the great posts that you've received from your phone. Of course, that is the pinned post on our Facebook page. But in the meantime, let's see who the lucky winner is this evening. And the lucky winner this evening is Yolande Goussin Maree. That is Yolande Goussin Maree, the lucky winner of the 500 rounds that is in the money bag. Yesterday's winner Fatima Samju did claim the 1000 rounds that was in the money bag. So we've got 500 rounds. So Yolande Goussin Maree do make sure that you drop us a text down here below in order to claim your prize. I want to read through some of the great posts that we've received from some of you at home yesterday's winner. This is what she had to say. I highly recommend private property. It's my go to find property and advice. They're extremely reliable, professional, helpful, efficient and their website is simplified and easy to navigate. What's more is they have a fabulous team of experts who do a podcast every week night at 7pm, which is highly informative, inspiring and gives non-homeowners the courage to make the smart moves. I've learned so much and I notice and I continue to learn because of these live podcasts, which you can ask your questions on the platform. Thank you so much private property fan. Thank you very much there. That's Fatima Samju, who was the lucky winner yesterday. Another one from Sheldon Von Moran saying, you guys rock awesome. You're not just a page, you are a family and that's exactly what we are. That's why every single evening we say welcome to the family, to those of course who are watching us for the first time, because we like making sure that everybody's welcomed and of course is able to get as much value as possible. Omen is able to let's be saying it's been a full nine months with my two properties and I'm eternally grateful for encountering a platform such as private property to teach me everything that I still needed to know about property. I've learned how to deal with the delinquent tenant, but I've also learned to have how to be a better landlord and have been compromising here and there for the benefit of my tenant. I've learned how to make the most of the agent managing my second property and I'm enjoying the good returns. Menzi Mutilesi goes on to say, I've also learned not to be at the body corporate of the complex I stay in and I'm now empowered with the right tools to also keep them accountable. Things are finally starting to change in this complex. Private properties also help me grow my knowledge on deceased estates and that really brings peace of mind to a person with my kind of background. All in all the intimate the beast that is SARS is no longer as intimidating as I thought it would be all thanks to private property and the host is Amandam Akumailo as well as all the guests that come on to the show. Thank you so much there. Menzi Mutilesi for that quote of confidence you absolutely do enjoy it. Of course we want to make the property so called bigger so each and every single time that you are watching do make sure that you share the like so that those who are following you and your Facebook friends with them can also see that you are of course tuned in. Well continuing the conversation with Gavin Rousseau as well as Zindan Booth talking property solutions for the real estate industry. Gavin I'll come to you this time around I mean when you then look at wealth migrate what sits you apart from some of the players that we're even you're talking about earlier who come on to the scene and doesn't really fail and or sometimes just don't do as well as they probably anticipated they'd be able to do. Interesting one because it's attempting to define our key differentiator is we're allowing anyone that's our moniker we want anyone to be able to invest into international real estate. So our focus has not always been pure South African real estate but it's international real estate it's it's the ability to invest and own a fractionalization in a small part of a building in the US. I actually ended up joining this company because I was in New York looked at a building it's like wow it would be really nice to own some of that and the price point is you know you're starting at a few hundred thousand US dollars like wow that's it's completely out of the reach now it's within reach from a hundred dollars you can own a portion and you can as an investment you can receive the returns of that investment like you can start from a hundred dollars as you get more you can scale it up it's it's a great way to add on to your portfolio. And I think we mustn't underestimate then the different kinds of ways that you're able to grow your property portfolio you know some people will have actual bricks and mortar and even in the actual bricks and mortar it's different kinds of other properties that you will bring. Linda perhaps how should we be looking at we'll say the overall composition of our property you know portfolio and already we're touching on how it doesn't have to be one type of we'll call it asset class within real estate if anything it shouldn't be it really should be a nice mix so how do we go about you know to determine what that mix should ideally be. I'm a hundred percent and not only should it be what different asset classes but what currencies what countries institutional or you know commercial or residential in how about owning a piece of the Amazon building in Cape Town that may or may not be built on today's protest and I think and I think that's where you know we spoke earlier about the fact that PropTech is transformational it changes the entire game for everyone and I think that's what that's what platforms like ours do so my bet and some are prepared to take this bet with you publicly is that in a year from now and up until now a lot of the podcasts when we talk to property investors and their portfolio it's about for most of us what we think about is how can I buy my next small buy to let or my next small student house or my next you know it's very small residential you're trying your best you want to be a landlord when I think in about a year's time from now if not quicker you know maybe even on your show every second show is going to be which country should you be looking at today or whether you should be looking at a medical building or an industrial building even if you've only got a thousand grand to invest and I think that's where the excitement comes in because now someone who wants to grow their property portfolio might think they have to wait till they get that hundred thousand to put down in a small residential spot somewhere as a deposit and that's their only way into the game but because of a platform like ours you can literally with a thousand you know one thousand five hundred dollars you can be a direct shareholder alongside the funds the institutions the people with a lot of money at the same share level the same investment level getting the same returns they are in the medical building in the middle of New York City and you can do that from your phone or from your desktop in South Africa and I think that's the game changer this is why even within South Africa we are bringing the equivalent of the best institutional quality deals so whether it's the next V&A waterfront or the Amazon building or the next century city anyone sitting in their house no matter where they live will soon be able to buy a piece of that and you know you said earlier that form sources go and build the right things at the right time now I would like to piggyback on their work I don't have to want to try and make a mistake and build the wrong thing in the wrong place if they've got the expertise and the knowledge how to build the next century city I want to be a piece of that piggybacking on them but investing at the same level as the Oppenheimers for example and that's where our platform and platforms like ours are making a difference so my prediction is that literally in six months to a year from now the conversation when we are talking about the everyday real estate investor is no longer going to be purely about what apps should I use to manage my tenants better or how can I become a better landlord that's going to be should I be going into Amazon and Cape Town or office block in New York and I think that's where this game becomes exciting because now as Gavin said everyone can start behaving and investing and building a diversified real estate portfolio actual real estate physical real estate around the world and actually add a lot cheaper than your entrance level used to be when you only had one option of buying a small residential and that's where we're excited. Taking your questions and comments at home on our Facebook page Prince Jones will tell you as he you know asks and I'm going to put a spin on his question I'm going to give it to Gavin you ask any reputable offshore companies to invest in as there are a lot of scammers out there the spin I want to put in because I also don't want us to start naming different companies but how should we or how can we spot some of the companies that are scamming because as principle points out there are quite a lot I mean I've seen quite a lot kind of spring up particularly during this COVID period so in the last 18 months to two years what are some of the ways that we can check if some of these you know companies are indeed reputable and whether they're doing offshore investments or even property investments because I think a lot of property investment companies that have also come up have been saying that they're going to give people all kinds of crazy you know returns we even spoke about this yesterday and we know that that isn't particularly particularly reputable so how can we you know disown and figure out whether a company is indeed credible or not especially when you're not dealing with the big things because you know with the big guys you kind of know that they're credible they've been around for a long period of time but you're really not dealing with sort of medium tier and perhaps some of the new entrants into into the game yeah it's there's an old adage of specifically on the returns thing if it's too good to be true probably is so we don't promise crazy returns we can't like we've been mad to like we'd be holed up as a scam immediately which is only too right so our returns are solid and we've got a track record like quite a long track record of delivering those however we are not a property property investment company this is the very important part of the differentiator we make is that for us we're providing our in our members an opportunity to invest in property with reputable sponsors so the people who are actually working on the deals you're investing with them not through another company your investment is directly through them and here's the very brief insight into how we decide who we're going to work with and they need to have been around for 10 years at the absolute bare minimum and they need to have quite a large amount of collective experience in their development teams like in their teams that are actually making the decisions they need to be experienced we don't where we are right now we would rather invest with the safe reputable people than the the people who are they're new they're just starting out it's not because we don't believe in them it's that we need to protect our members as best we can but yeah I agree they there are a lot of flyby nights out there and it is really hard the basics are just if too much is promised you want to do a hell of a lot more investigation into it sorry Linda I saw you wanted to add on to that yeah I do if you don't mind that I want to jump in I think they're two very important things firstly is if something is financially regulated you're probably likely to get a much bigger deal better it's more trustworthy than if it's operating in an unregulated space in South Africa our platform was 100% regulated by the South African financial services regulator and I think that's really important the second the second aspect to that is if I'm going to try and sell you shares in my company and I'm on a listed exchange like the New York Stock Exchange or the South African Stock Exchange you already know that that stock exchange has done immense amount of work to verify the companies that they're going to allow to list on their stock exchange right and our marketplace is exactly the same we have a marketplace and an investment committee and no company is able to bring a deal to our platform unless we have very thoroughly checked them vetted them done financial audits due diligence audits bad actor audits track record audits so by the time a deal arrives on the West Wing platform it has been through an extensive process on verification by a lot of very very qualified people both within South Africa but also outside of the country because we have compliance partners in France you can the USA so I think that's key is go if if if like your listener really is wanting to do this rather use a platform like ours that is firstly regulated by a financial services industry and secondly brings you deals that are already vetted by an extremely extensive team and as we wrap up our conversation gentlemen any final tips out for our viewers at home when it comes to product solutions for you know the industry especially if they want to start using some of them in their own property portfolio I'll start with yourself Gavin any final tips for viewers at home find one that you like find one whose team you like and get started with a small amount try it out if if nothing else you it doesn't return as well as you like and you haven't really lost anything but you have to start in order to do this you can't spend a lot of time sitting on the sidelines just watching and yourself and then guys I'm exactly the same I think whether it's an investment platform like ours or some of the other prop tech platforms or prop tech solutions is just start and try because the world is moving this way very quickly and it's not a space you want to be left behind in because in your own portfolio whether it's because you're managing a few properties etc your competitors are going to start using it it's going to give them a competitive advantage and you're not going to be left behind so embrace prop tech and really go and try and experiment as much as you can gentlemen that's where we're going to leave it at this evening Lyndon Booth Gavin Rousseau thank you so much for joining us on the show thanks so much it's been great to be here and I've heard from the team that unfortunately we have not had the winner claim their price so Ulandi Maree did not claim that 500 rand so we've got to roll over to a thousand rands tomorrow as we're going to be wrapping up the week's edition of the private property podcast well that's it for myself as I'm going to walk tomorrow we'll be back on the streets tomorrow evening at 7 p.m. it is a Thursday so you can catch Umbali Moko on the farming podcast at 8 p.m. until then hoping you're staying home and staying safe