 Welcome and hello. I'm sure we have people on from many, many time zones. So great way to start or end a Monday, depending on where you are. My name is Andrea Minelli, and I'm a senior advisor at Titan Partners, a strategy consulting and investment banking firm focused on the global knowledge sector. I co-lead our impact investing work where we assist investors and philanthropists with their impact and investing strategies. We're a proud sponsor of SoCAP, very excited to be in this impact investing thought stream and excited to present this panel in workforce, the rise of new players. As we all know, the workforce, getting jobs, keeping a job and attaining a living wage in this economy that we live in has been a challenge around the globe, especially on the heels of COVID-19. Today I'm joined by three outstanding leaders in impact to present this panel and they're gonna share their thoughts and perspectives. We have Christina Francis, the executive director at JFF Labs, a part of Jobs for the Future. We have Ryan Stowers, the executive director of the Charles Koch Foundation and Elizabeth Chu, managing director at Leeds Illuminate, a growth equity firm. I'm gonna start by having our panelists each introduce themselves and their organization and then I'll facilitate a discussion. I'd like to keep this very lively, so throw everything in the chat. I think if you can use that instead of the Q&A, we'd appreciate it. Everyone will see that and we really wanna make this interactive. I don't think we'll have a problem with this exciting panel. So why don't I start by handing it over to Christina to introduce yourself. Absolutely, and Andrea, thank you for putting this panel together. Super excited about this discussion. So I'm Christina Francis, executive director with Jobs for the Future Labs and JFF is a national nonprofit with the mission to build a society where everyone has access to skills, resources and credentials needed to achieve economic advancement. Three years ago, JFF CEO Maria Flynn launched JFF Labs to bridge traditional systems with new ecosystems with entrepreneurs, tech innovators and investors who are building new solutions. Prior to joining JFF, I led my own consulting business for five years and prior to that I spent 20 years in management consulting of focus on systems development, engineering and cyber. I also sit on several nonprofit boards that are focused on providing access to social and financial capital to entrepreneurs. And I was drawn to JFF for a number of reasons. I was raised by my grandparents and mom, all who are in the education field. My grandfather was actually an elementary school principal for 40 years. My grandmother was a teacher, a principal opened several Montessori schools. My mom is currently a teacher. And so like many during COVID, I had the opportunity to think about where I wanted to spend this phase in my career and my personal journey is tied to JFF's theory of change. And so I'm super excited to be a part of Labs, super excited for this conversation today. Thanks, Christina, Ryan, how about you? Yeah, thanks, Andrea and thanks, Christina. So Ryan Stowers, executive director of the Charles Koch Foundation. The Charles Koch Foundation is a private philanthropy that partners with social change entrepreneurs who are really focused on removing the barriers that prevent people from reaching their potential. And we've done this over the years and we do this now through supporting rigorous best in class academic research that explore the key issues of society like immigration, economic opportunity and policing. But we also have really focused on education and the barriers that the current education systems placing in people's lives. And our whole focus is really based on a premise that every individual is unique and has extraordinary potential to contribute to society. But a lot of the institutions in society have placed those barriers that are preventing people from really having an impact and really, like I said, reaching their potential. And then this belief that the role that education needs to play in society, the purpose of education is to unlock the potential of every individual by helping learners discover and develop their unique aptitudes and interests and then develop the knowledge and skills based on who they are to help them deploy that knowledge to benefit themselves and others. And so we think that sweet spot is absolutely critical. And like I said, we think the current systems failing millions at doing that. And if the barriers were removed then every individual could pursue an education in a highly individualized, highly dynamic way that allows them to reach that potential. And then we really believe that there are artificial barriers between learning and work. And we wanna work to help dissolve those barriers. We think that's critical for the conversation. How I got started in this, I grew up in rural Utah. The son of a registered pediatric nurse. And then my father ran a sheltered workshop to help displaced workers, whether it was drug addiction or criminal background, get back into the workforce. So I grew up with the perspective that a good job was one focused on helping others and which is incredible. My parents have helped me enormously with that perspective. And I went to school with a focused thinking a doctor would help me do that. And then I ran into a few professors, I got lucky, that helped me tap into my aptitudes and interests and a realization that ideas mattered and ideas could help shape culture and society in a way that would help people. And I've been focused on that ever since. And I've been at the Charles Koch Foundation for 16 years, really focused on that. And I'm excited to talk about what we've learned. We're new to this space, what we're learning and why we're so passionate about being here. Thank you so much, Ryan. Really appreciate it. Elizabeth. Yes, good morning or good afternoon, depending on where you are. Andrea, thank you so much for being included in this panel. Really, I'm looking forward to the conversation too with Christine and Ryan. And grateful to be part of this great group. So I'm Elizabeth Cho. I'm a founding partner at Leeds Illuminate, which is a growth equity strategy focused on investing in education and workforce development and access. So we really focus on learners and workers from their first day of school through their last day of work. At Leeds Illuminate, we have an explicit impact focus and we look to investing companies that have clear outcomes and efficacy for learners and workers while maintaining a focus on commercial market returns. We believe to build great businesses in the education and workforce development and access space you have to deliver on the outcomes for the beneficiaries. Otherwise the business will not build longstanding sustainable value. So we focus on investing in companies at the growth stage, which for us means companies that are doing more than 10 million in revenue and up that have a line of sight to EBITDA positive through more mature companies that are looking to bring in strategic minority partners. We typically are investing $20 to $50 million per company to support growth and scaling. Personally, I've been an investor for over 17 years and focused on education and workforce over the last decade. So I started my career in commercial lending, mezzanine debt and private equity control investing, working mainly with middle market companies. And while I was at business school, I was really inspired by the concept of social enterprise and the idea that I could pair my hard finance skills with doing well by doing good. And so as a result, after business school, I joined an early stage venture fund called New Markets Venture Partners that was just embarking on its journey as an ed tech specialist, focused on investing in impactful companies with market rate returns in K-12 through workforce. And during the course of my nine years, I really fell in love with the education and workforce sectors. I'm energized by getting to work with incredible entrepreneurs in the space. I feel like they bring this extra special verb that drives them to focus on building great businesses and delivering meaningful impact. And at Leeds Illuminate, we focus on helping those founders and teams deliver that impact at scale, which is a lot of fun. Wow, thanks so much. I think audience you can see we've got a great diversity of experience, expertise and perspective already, just when you hear the bios of these remarkable people. So I'm gonna start us off by just talking about workforce development a little bit, putting people back to work, or in some cases, finding that first job. This is not new. The government has been working at this, public policy experts have been working at this. And here to four, in a little way, impact investors have been working at it. Suddenly though, we've seen, I think, an explosion of interest. Some of the reasons are quite obvious. But I would love to just start there about what problems are impact investors trying to solve that the government or the commercial markets may not have really tackled in a productive way yet. Christina, do you mind starting us off? Yeah, absolutely. And first let me start by saying, investing in the future of work and as you just called it workforce development is more critical now than ever before. And the problem that impact investors are trying to solve are problems of, I believe speed, scale, lived experience and expertise, particularly impact investors who are focused on, as you just mentioned, putting people back to work at this time. I wanna talk a little bit about the workforce development area. For almost 40 years, JFF has actually worked with partners across the field to improve labor market outcomes for both youth and adults and particularly for individuals who work in low wage jobs or who I think Ryan mentioned, face barriers to economic mobility. But even before the COVID crisis, the workforce development and education systems were ripe for increased investment and transformation. The present workforce system, I believe is almost exclusively demand driven and just not sufficiently elevated or recognized or they haven't taken action to address some of the needs and voices of workers today. And Andrea, like you said, getting people back to work is not new. The most devastating fact that I take from COVID is the fact that workers who are suffering the greatest economic hardship as a result of the crisis are the people in our society who have repeatedly been left behind. Those are low wage earners, individuals with no post-secondary credentials, many of whom are black, Latinx or other underrepresented populations. So these populations have not shared equitably in earlier recoveries. They haven't benefited equitably in our education and workforce systems. And oh, by the way, technology has been displacing workers for years now and will continue to do so. And so I think for us what COVID illuminated was the longstanding systemic challenges. We've heard statistics like women have been more disproportionately hurt by the crisis, losing jobs far greater than men. That the gap between white and black unemployment continues to grow. And so it's time to transform the workforce development. It's time to invest in post-secondary programs. It's time to modernize systems with agile, what we believe are wealth, resourced, resilient and equitable solutions. In terms of JFF and the work that we're doing, I'd love to say that there's a real need for impact lead workforce investment. I think again, Ryan mentioned some of the barriers earlier on, but what if we could put the right tech, the right solutions, the right opportunities in the hands of people that need it most so we can connect them to jobs or to career opportunities that really give them life sustaining wages. COVID has exponentially increased the scale of deep longstanding needs among low-wage workers and created, I believe, an acute need for investors with an impact focus and a workforce expertise. Some of our most intractable workforce and education problems are just in need of new solutions. So we talk about traditional levers of change and investment vehicles, including government aid and philanthropic dollars and corporate investments, but some of these are just not sufficient for the change that we need right now for the people who need it most. I believe it's an all hands on deck moment and one that only impact investing can help elevate solutions, scalable solutions that have positive impacts on people, places and institutions. I think for a while, investors have flopped to the future of work, but investments have disproportionately benefited the highly-scaled worker, not necessarily the low-scaled worker or the new-scaled worker. And so we're looking at things like upscaling, reskilling, transition assistance, career navigation services. All of these are essential to help every individual create and sustain a career. And at JFF Labs, we're helping to accelerate promising technology and solutions in our Impact Technology Fund. We are prioritizing impact and support of our entrepreneurs in driving meaningful, measurable impact. So we're looking at things like employment impact, numbers of jobs attained, salary and wage level retention on jobs, number of individuals who are actually completing programs and other demographics. ETF is an innovative impact investment initiative. We focus on four impact areas. And I'd like just to talk about those really quickly. One is around learning and training. So we're looking at things like adult education, alternative education, corporate learning. That's one bucket. We have in a bucket that we look around assessment and matching. So competency-based assessments, credentialing, inventory and basic skills. It's another bucket. Then we have job search and placement, labor market information, career navigation, workforce alignment. And the last bucket that we're really focused on, and we've seen a huge uptick in opportunities here, is wraparound services. And so looking at connection to coaching services or communication and life management, financial tubes, how can people find and finance their opportunities? And so I think one of the biggest opportunities is really that agility, speed, scale, and bringing in investors and expertise that have lived experience and opportunities to really help these social entrepreneurs bring their technologies and solutions and put it into the hands of those that need it most. Yeah, I'd love to jump in here too, just very quickly. I think Christina did a really good job of unpacking some of the problems. I think one of the, just adding on to this, I think one of the biggest problems is that we get in our own way. Those of us who are really trying to champion change and transformation when it comes to voting with our feet. I think we us, all of us on this call society, we've got to think and act differently about learning and work and really work hard to remove some of the stigmas that have allowed kind of the two-tiered system to perpetuate some of the challenges we've been facing or will never drive the kind of change that Christina was just talking about. I think we'll tweak on the margins rather than drive kind of full scale transformation. And I think thinking and acting differently about education is a big part of it. I've seen some really exciting examples of that, but it seems like the people that are really tuned in to where learners' voices and what people are focused on, we did a poll that showed that 61% of Americans believe that colleges need to change and better meet the needs of students. And only 16% of Americans think that students need to change in order to kind of better fit what universities are offering right now. And then I think the big part of the problem, and Christina was talking about this, is so many of our efforts focus on the 18 to 22-year-olds or the people that are in the traditional space were completely not focused enough on the people that either jumped into that system that didn't fit and got bumped out for one reason or another. And then we're not at all focused on the millions of Americans that never even viewed themselves as smart enough or good enough or capable to get post-secondary learning in order to help skill them up for new opportunities. And that's kind of impossible to quantify, but that loss of human potential and the self-esteem challenges that's placed in millions of Americans' lives as a result of this flawed system is, I think, huge and requires, as Christina said, immediate action and transformative action. Elizabeth, do you wanna have a word on this on the macro big picture here? Sure, yeah. So I agree with everything that's been said, and I would just, you know, to Christina's earlier point about the participation rate of, you know, sort of hourly workers and, you know, where we can bring in more disinventized people of color into the workforce. You know, it seems like it's such a tight labor market right now, and I'm hopeful that the conversation which has been, some of these initiatives are, you know, sort of good for companies to undertake in terms of DNI or alternative credentialing or alternative pathways. Now that the labor market is so tight, perhaps that there's just, I think, a groundswell and sort of more openness and opportunities to work with companies and flexible ways to help bring more of that workforce back into the conversation and help with upscaling and retraining and, you know, education as a benefit. And so I'm really hopeful that a lot of these things that we're seeing in this particularly tight labor market for, you know, quote unquote unskilled workers, it really perpetuates for a much longer period of time. Yeah, and, you know, look, we had a great comment in the chat about whether anything we're talking about whether this panel could comment on, you know, the 4.3 million disenchanted workers that dropped out of the labor force. Now I would say in August, in the month of August, you know, that's a complex issue, right? But, you know, perhaps any of you, you know, want to speak to that or have any, you know, hypotheses that would steer our audience as to the whys. Yeah, I can just jump in and provide a perspective. I think that, I think COVID highlighted a lot of the gaps that we face, people who are in jobs, but, you know, realize that that job was gonna change or end. They looked inside themselves and didn't see based on what they had learned or what they had experienced the ability to pivot. And we've got the technology, we've got the ability to make these pivots much more low-cost, much more dynamic for these folks. And I think the best thing we can do as impact investors is invest in bottom-up solutions that are providing those connections, those bridges. And, you know, skill ups an example that it's an entity that was created as a result of COVID. But it's implications and the impact that it can have are much further reaching than I think COVID would be. But they've already helped a half a million people connect to new education opportunities and to real jobs in high-demand areas by helping them understand who they are, what their aptitudes are, connecting them to the right learning opportunities and then getting them plugged into the system. And it's not a top-down approach. It's a coalition of 60 different entities from all different, you know, investors, education providers, corporations, and a lot of organizations that make it all work. And so I think skill ups just one example where some of the solutions could be to what you're describing, Andrea. And Ryan, that's a great point that I do wanna just pivot a little or segue to these new players. Now, the reason we got all three of you together and we were very fortunate is I felt like you all represented a kind of a new player in workforce. Notwithstanding that JFF has been doing workforce for 40 years, the group that Christina leads is new and they're focused on innovation. So ETF at JFF Labs, Christina, in a minute, I'm gonna ask you to talk about a micro example of someone you've invested in and how that's new and innovative, right? Ryan, you represent the investing side more traditionally philanthropic dollars, but you are now seeing an emerging role that your dollars can be directed at in that intersection, I think, of higher ed workforce. So think of an example, and Elizabeth, you too, you started out in a little different and maybe you could tell us a little more about the origin story of Leads Illuminate. People may know about Leads, which is a longstanding investor in education, but Leads Illuminate is, I would call it, a cousin of Leads maybe. But Christina, let's go back to you and talk about that newness of ETF at JFF Labs and give an example, I think that would really help crystallize the type of investor you are. Absolutely, and before I do that, I just wanna answer that question around the 4.3 million workers. My hypothesis is that we're providing more optionality to people right now. And so I think people are really looking at where they wanna be, how they wanna use their time, how they wanna make their money and who they want to work for. I also think that there's a push towards entrepreneurship as a career. And so we're seeing a lot more people actually creating the best job is the one that they can create themselves. And so we're starting to see some of that. I'm excited about the work that JFF Labs is doing, particularly our Employment Technology Fund. So it's an early stage fund. We have about 20 million under management right now. We've made, I think, around 24 investments in the last three years. One of the first investments that I had a chance to support Yagal and the team on is Charger Help. So this is an example of what I think is a new intersection point between entrepreneurship, emerging technology and workforce. And so Charger Help actually provides EV or electric vehicle charging stations. And so they have it as a product and a service. They also have a workforce solution where they are training people in this new emerging technology job that they actually got inserted into Onet. Going through that whole entire process, it was a job that did not exist two years ago, now exists today in Onet. And they've been able to go state to state and start putting EV workstations or charging stations in and putting a workforce development program around it so that people can move into these high wage jobs that didn't exist two years ago. That's just one example of some of the investments that we're making and where we see change happening rapidly. Hey, Christian, do you wanna comment on the founders? I think there's a pretty... Well, yeah. The two is not unique, but unfortunately... Yes. Right? Yes, absolutely. And so the founders are two black women from California. Again, their background, their skill, they co-founded this organization, as we know, particularly black women. I think there are only 95 black women entrepreneurs or startup founders who have received a million dollars of funding, less than 100. And so it was really important, it is important for us that the people that we're investing in have lived experience, that they represent the population that we're trying to support and the problems that we're trying to solve. So we were really thrilled to support, to support Charger Hill. Great. So, Ryan, as you're thinking about this landscape in the way that you disperse, not just your capital, but also your social and political connections and the cloud, quite frankly, that the Charles Koch Foundation can bring to a problem. How are you thinking about it? Traditionally, I've been in higher ed, but now thinking about the connection to workforce and alternative pathways. Yeah, thanks, Andrea. This is, Andrea knows, we're new to this space. So we, Charles and his foundation have been supporting education for 50 plus years and a lot in higher ed. And again, advancing research in very focused areas, one of which was education. But in the last three or four years, just recognizing the dynamic that we've all been talking about, we've really expanded this part of our portfolio. And a lot of times when you make a move like this, you don't know what you don't know. So we're in full-time learning mode. And this is why conversations like this and interacting with groups like this is so empowering because we can hear from people who have been doing it for a long time. But we are seeing a dearth and a need for people to come together in the way that we're talking about today, really honing in on the problem, not just pushing for ideas that tweak at the margins, but thinking about ways to drive real transformation in the space. And the role that the Charles Koch Foundation is trying to play as a philanthropic entity is really to catalyze education entrepreneurs that are coming up with those bottom-up solutions to drive disruption, to challenge the status quo and to go beyond just the traditional, a lot of the ed entrepreneurs are outside or just inside the traditional higher ed space. But we think employers are a big part of this conversation as well. How do we get employers to send better demand signals into the system and not just talk about driving change, but actually form coalitions and make a move to not just expressing value in the four-year degree or that form of credential, but multiple alternative credentials and opening up bridges to new opportunities for people to skill up in ways to connect with those jobs. So we think employers is a big gap in this conversation. How can we catalyze activity on that end? And then how can we elevate more dynamic pathways like the skilled trades? How can we identify those scalable models, affordable short-term skill-based programs that lead to in-demand jobs, competency-based, stackable credentials? So we've started making those investments and we're ramping up significantly. And like I said, we see huge opportunities for our organization, but more importantly, we know we won't succeed if we don't continue to learn and partner. So we're looking for partners to engage with in this space to really drive the kind of change that we hope to see. Great, thanks, Ryan. Yeah, and I think that started to get at some of the things people are asking in the chat around stackable credentials. Alternatives to post-secondary, and I don't think anyone in this panel believes that it's an either or, right? It's gotta be both, right? We need to reform the post-sex sector, whether it's two-year, four-year, or even down into high school, right? What does it mean to get a high school degree without a credential that gets you right into the job force? That's a big question that's been on my mind since I spent time in K-12. So thank you for those questions in the chat. That's a whole rich discussion itself, but I think this panel would say both are probably important. Elizabeth, how about you in terms of, the origin story of Leads Eliminate and just the kind of investor and types of things you're looking at? Yeah, so Leads Eliminate is a sister fund, is it how we call it, to Leads Equity Partners. So Leads Equity Partners is a private equity investor that's been investing in the knowledge industries for nearly three decades. They've been focused on early childcare through workforce development and information systems and focused on sort of later stage companies, control, stake investing in the middle market. And so the team at Leads Equity and my partner Susan Kate, she's a 22-year veteran in the education industry. And myself came together to really launch a strategy focused on investing in sort of growth companies with the sector expertise in education and workforce with a very explicit impact focus. So the impact piece comes sort of very authentically and naturally to who we are on the Leads Eliminate side. Where I was previously at New Markets, I ran sort of the impact reporting and sort of collection and really how we looked at impact. My colleague Stephanie Nieman, who's a managing director with us at Leads Eliminate has been an impact investor for over 11 years. She was previously with SJF Ventures, which you all may know as an early growth impact investor in the space and had been focused on healthcare, education and workforce. And prior to her time in SJF, she was at B Labs. And so helping frame the very early discussions of what does it mean to be an impact investor and how do we look at that? So what we invest in at Leads Equity, the Leads Eliminate, we're really looking for companies that are moving the needle for learners and workers. And so we focus on companies that really can expand those outcomes. And as we're doing that, we're evaluating, particularly on the workforce side, sort of what improved job readiness, what skills training the company may be providing to link more directly to career as we were just talking about and income advancement. We're looking for opportunities for companies to provide more equitable job access and work flexibility to meet diverse income needs and lifestyles. And I'll talk a little bit about a company that we just invested in that does a lot of those things. But Andrea, you had asked how we think about impact investing is we really align with the UN's sustainable development goals, particularly with specific targets under the quality education and decent work and economic growth goals. In addition, we really look at what the IFC is operating principles for impact and the impact management project and its five dimensions of impact framework. So these are all the frameworks that we really use to evaluate what does our pre-diligence look like? How do we really experience and understand what the company's doing? And how do we think about it in your sort of post-investment and the things that we're tracking on the impact metrics to make sure that we're really helping this company achieve scale and grow that impact and scale across its network? So one of the companies I'd love to talk about that we've invested in is a company called Winolo, which is an on-demand staffing platform for contingent or temporary hourly workers in the light industrial space. And what Winolo does is it matches clients in warehousing, logistics, retail, merchandising, light manufacturing with a growing worker preference for increased choice and flexibility for jobs. And that choice and flexibility and ability to just choose and try out a shift instead of committing in a traditional temporary staffing model to a two-week commitment has really enabled Winolo to fill its platform with a much higher percentage of women than we typically see in light industrial companies and women of color who we know were the biggest job losers during the pandemic. And so this has really enabled a net new labor force into this market in addition to increased economic capabilities in addition to increased flexibility. And a couple of things we love about the business in terms of its impact is, you know, the company made a very specific and public commitment to making sure that all the wages on its platform meet the MIT living wage standard by the end of this year and took out a full page ad in the New York Times asking for other companies to join them in the commitment. In addition to, they really focus on, you know, creating benefits and education opportunities for workers on the platform. So, you know, workers can earn and pay time off. They can, you know, increase credentialing. We know that, you know, folks with a credential around driving a forklift earn more than someone who doesn't have that credential. And so really the company is very much focused on increasing opportunity to access and choice and economic advancement, which is all things that we have been focused on. And so, you know, as we think about our impact investment, we're looking and having, you know, diving in very deep on the front end to understand beneficiary groups, understand user degrees of change that the company is able to impact. In addition to then, you know, helping to figure out what are the right metrics just continue to track overtime and make sure that this company is achieving its impact goals and where we can help with that scale. Elizabeth, thank you so much for bringing that up and audience again. I just want to focus on just in that three minute run, all the things Elizabeth talked about, talked about that weren't financial bottom line, right? That investors are now bringing to the forefront and hopefully with their political and social and financial capital starting to change the way we do business. But Elizabeth, I can't let you go without asking you about the financial return. How do you marry all those other things and come out with, you know, pretty good quality scores on those other elements of impact measurement and still try to hit the market rate of return that your investors are looking for? Yeah, so we really don't believe that there's two screens. There's one screen for us. We don't separate the two. And so by not separating the two, we really do believe that a company that's driving sustainable great impact and efficacy has good outcomes for its learners and workers does have the capability of being and creating a long, sustainable, valuable business in the long run. And so we are absolutely focused on both at the same time. And, you know, there are, we have seen plenty of opportunities that have, you know, met our metrics in terms of being both, you know, incredibly impact and mission focused and aligned in addition to having a probability of creating the kinds of venture market returns and growth equity returns that we're looking for. That's awesome. Thanks. Christina, do you want to comment on returns, impact and the way you guys, you're an interesting, you guys have an interesting approach and the way you think about it as well. Absolutely, we do. So we are impact first, where we're looking at the impact on people, places and institutions across our portfolio. An example, you know, we track down to, a good example of a company that we invested in equity and equity helps colleges improve students financial security since we were just talking about finances and increasing access to resources and emergency funding. And so one of the things that we do is track the average income increase for those students that are using that platform. And so that's an example of the impact metrics that we are capturing. We're capturing how people are finishing and completing some of the tools and online opportunities that many of our portfolio companies are providing. So for us, we believe too that there aren't two screens. It's, we look at impact. We work alongside of our entrepreneurs to help them define the impact that they want to have and are having with the populations that they want to serve. That's an area I'm super excited about that we're really rolling our sleeves up and digging deep beyond the investment to work alongside our entrepreneurs and help them to capture those metrics and to help tell the stories of what they've done and how they've improved an individual's life. That's super helpful. And again, I think this whole notion audience that it is not, it isn't binary. It's not one or the other. There should be one screen and it all can be accomplished. The other thing I'd like you to remember is that our panelists represent kind of different stages of where they invest. There's a certain kind of capital for growth which is what Elizabeth does. Christina is working at the very much the startup phase. Ryan, you wanna talk a little bit about where you'd be focused and the kinds of things you'd wanna measure? Sure, yeah, and we partner, we've got in the broader stand-together philanthropic community we're a part of. There are a couple of venture entities, but as a traditional philanthropy, one of the biggest challenges we face is measuring impact, but we're really working hard at it all the time. And our goal again is to identify areas where we can help to remove barriers and then more importantly than just removing the barriers is actually seeing lives changed for the better. And so we really try to get it at that one example that maybe helps this make a little more sense to folks. OpenStacks has been a grantee for a long time. They're a group at Rice University and they're focused on creating free digitized, adaptable cutting edge textbooks which is driving huge disruption in the textbook industry. You think about where we try to dissect it a little bit to better understand the impact is one of the greatest barriers community college students face are the price of textbooks. And so if you look at it in that way, 40% of the costs that community college students face are in their textbooks. If you look at it that way, OpenStacks has saved more than five million students, more than $1.2 billion over their existence. And so again, really trying to hone in and connect the dots with how a group like OpenStacks that we've invested in over the years is hopefully changing lives. But again, we've got a lot of work to do. We know we're just scratching the surface and we're excited to dig in and understand how our philanthropy can be a catalyst to changing the lives and the way that we've talked about. Awesome, Ryan, thank you so much. And look, we could go on all day because this is such a rich topic and we have such great representation with these three. I will say there were some things that came up in the chat. We're gonna take note of them and get back to you. But as we close here to try to get you all moving on time, we're gonna have a little lightning round. And I'm asking each of our panelists to tell me what they're optimistic about for the future. Christina, how about you first? Absolutely, and my answer is similar to what's been in the chat. I mean, I'm thrilled with the new models. That's my job, is to find and uncover new models within the current systems and new models that have not existed yet. And I'm excited about that because it's creating more pathways for people that haven't existed before. I'm also really excited about the potential to partner beyond what we've imagined previously and to have intersectional, intersector partnerships, private public partnerships that really move capital in ways that we have not seen capital move and that allow people to test and experiment with new models to see how they work and to actually capture those metrics and continue to invest in those areas where we see the biggest opportunities to move people through the system so that they can meet economic mobility. Great, Ryan. It's my only mute slip-up, sorry. I'm really excited about the stories that are coming out of some of these programs. So like a Brianna that went into Skill Up, she was a black woman that was a custodian and she's now empowered to identify her aptitudes, connected to an upskilling program per school us and now is in a high demand job doing IT work. So it's stories like that that I think really help fuel us to do more of this work. And then I love Christina's point about partnership. I think the other exciting thing is just the energy that's found in sessions like this and the number of entrepreneurs that are engaging and entering in this space to come up with those bottom up solutions. So I'm hopeful because of the energy, the passion and the stories that I've seen come out as a result of people like us changing the way we think and act about education. Great, Elizabeth, bring us home, right at the close. I love the passion comment, Ryan. But I'm really optimistic that there's just this growing focus on how we support talent and meet workers where they are in need from a flexible standpoint. So we just made an investment in a company called The Mom Project that helps connect women who have an average of eight to 10 years of experience with flexible work and the growing number of companies that want to partner with The Mom Project to tap into this group of talent, this really incredible group of women, just gives me hope that there's a much more flexible future ahead and one that is inclusive of more diverse voices. Thank you so much. Thank you to our audience who's listening. Thanks all these panelists and we really appreciate it. And I know this will be recorded so you can get to it later. Bye-bye everyone. Thank you.