 We're going to open up the public hearing. This is on the roads that have been identified to have safety issues with them. This is the opportunity, as many of you know, the select board has been out to view all these roads, to look at them. We've heard from the town employees involved with them. Now, this is your turn to tell us why you think the road is safe or why what we're being told isn't quite the way it is or changes that can be made and how those changes are going to be made so that we do have safe turnarounds, we do have safe areas for these operations. Given that there's so many of them on the agenda tonight, what we're going to do is go road by road. So anybody who wants to speak to that road will have the opportunity, keeping it road specific. And when you're speaking, if you could state your name for the record first, because Shannon has to capture everybody's name and what their comments are about the safety of these roads. Madam Chairman, does that, what you're expecting is going to take up the entire public comment section with the agenda? We're not on the agenda, we're in the public hearing. That's before the select board meeting. If you look at the actual posted agenda, it has the meeting date and then it says a notice of public hearing first and then we move into the regular agenda. Thank you. But it will take quite a while as there's 17 roads to be heard on before we start the agenda. So to get it started, we'll start with Rainbow Drive. Do we have anybody here for Rainbow Drive? Yep. You can just state your name for the record for Shannon. Connor Stradley. Did you want to say anything? Oh no. I'm supposed to be. Well, we want to know is the road going to be classified as class four or do we know what it's going to be classified as? So the process for this is the roads were identified and the town employees gave us information. The select board then went out and did site visits. Tonight is the portion for people to give us information on what their opinion is on the road, what they not opinion, but facts that it's, you know, why you feel it is safe, why you feel there isn't any reasons for it to change classification. And then we have to wait between 30 and 60 days after the hearing tonight before the select board can make a decision. And that gives you a chance to submit more information to the board or things that you want to have considered. Tonight's hearing is for you folks to tell us information. You want us to take into consideration when we make the decision. You don't have the information that was collected to deem the roads worthy of being on the list in the first place? Yeah, we got that to begin with from the town folks, from the staff and whatnot. Yeah. That how they identified it. So you have that information right here? What we're looking for now is, this could be because a truck rolled over in the door yard. It could be because it's stuck there. They're turning around on property that's not the town's property. There's a variety of things that are impacting them. But we haven't been told what those issues are for our particular road. None of us, none of us. Nobody. We talked about those. We talked about them all on the site visits for the ones I was on. We talked about them on the site visits. You didn't tell me. We talked about that the road on your specific, well, we'll get to it when we get to your road, but where the limitations were a lot, some of that's not town property, where they come up in from, I think the road for yours ends at the edge of your house. And if you look at where it turns around, there's not a, that whole turnaround, everything is on, not on town property. It's not a risk for town property. That's part of the issue, but it's not a good turnaround location there either. It's just some of their concerns. So, you can ask a question. It's a broader question, not as roads specific. Yep. So are you looking at these safety issues on all of Randall's roads? Or are you only looking at them on these single house roads? They're looking at all the ones that were identified as having a safety issue with them. So there are no other roads other than these 17 roads that have safety issues? No, we're working our way through all of them, but we can do them all at once. So there were actually a couple more that were identified during one of the site visits. We'll be right out there also. How many roads does Randall have that should have safety issues? In terms of the number of the roads, I don't have the total number of the roads now, but like the chair said, we're going by what our highway plow drivers have told us first and we're going to investigate further than other roads as they come along. So I understand that there are questions of what information came from where and the information came from town employees and as an HR perspective, they have to be investigated and this is a part of the process. So you're saying there's only 17 roads on that list that have concerns? I'm saying that the 17 roads were expressed to me by our employees as being a concern when I ask. But one of your taxpayers in Randall asked how many roads are on this list in Randall? There's 17. 17 to 30, 40, how many are on this list? The reason I ask in that question, because I have it, it's very convenient that this list is all sort of houses at the end of roads as opposed to looking at, well, this road, Fish Hill has plenty of unsafe spots where I'm sure that the plow trucks occasionally go off. I've seen photos in the herald of plow trucks off the road. So it seems unusually convenient that this specific grouping of roads has been identified versus hearing about other roads that where the town is gonna be looking into doing improvements, whether it's guardrails or re-aligning the road, that hasn't been discussed. So this sort of looks a little differently than just the safety issue and might be more of a financial issue since we are coming into budget season. This isn't a financial issue. This isn't a huge dollar value of savings. It's actually in a cost random offering. If I could continue the general issue, though, I think I've got a lot of calls because I was on the list and I'm also on EDC and budget about what's kind of the what's going on calls, right? Like what's going on, right? And so the thing that I heard over and over again that I think people were concerned about was that not a single owner that contacted me had heard of a problem prior to this coming up. And so there's a confusion about why the landowners were not contacted to ask them why, you know, what we have a safety concern. Instead they feel like they were blindsided and right going into winter was this list. So the general concern really was, well, if there were safety concerns, why were they not raised? And then some people checked, because then I heard from several people who said, well, I went and looked, were there any of the concerns raised on any of these roads? And apparently there was not a single written concern put in about any of these roads. So then there's the question of, well, gosh, how did we suddenly have such a significant safety concern that we took the time of our valuable town employees? And I appreciate all of you who went out on site visits to look at our roads and our town employees rather than perhaps checking to see beforehand how legitimate or how well documented these were prior because I know that some of the site visits failed to identify the kinds of safety concerns that would be expected from these reports. Is that a fair, so that's, I think that there's really just more confusion and concern. I think just to clarify, I think there's this misconception that the town is saying that these roads are unsafe. When in reality is we received a comment from town employees to me and I made the request that tell me what the process is when you do your applying, tell me about where there may be a potential problem for you so that we don't have it in the future. So employees shared their concerns with the town. So the town is investigating a potential claim of a safety issue as opposed to the town telling you all there is a safety issue on your road. Those are two separate things. So the process is to investigate the claim of a safety issue as opposed to a warning to you all to say your road is unsafe, be careful. So why couldn't that issue be investigated without throwing a bomb into the room and starting a discontinuous or reclassification process? Why not pick up the phone or send the letter and say, hey, we've had some concerns about this. What can we do about it? And work with us. And I do believe all the letters said your road is a safety concern. There is a safety concern, but you just said now that it's not all about the safety that's why you went out to check each road. Right. Well, there is a safety concern. It was shared to us by our employees. Do you have a list of all the safety concerns for all the roads in Randolph or the all the specific roads that are identified? Well, the issues are either turning in the roads and or the specific roads. Like to last list. Do you have a list of all the specific roads that those all drivers identified? Yes, I did. And is that only the 17 roads here? Yes. And those are almost all single family roads. And none of the other roads in Randolph are deemed to be unsafe. Right. I don't think anybody's saying that they're not stating the roads as being unsafe. What we've said is that during that conversation, these are the roads that were raised as having the biggest concern to the highway group. So, there's a variety of things. And I didn't go on the first day's site visit, but I went on the second day's site visit. And the issues are pretty much consistent across, which is how do you safely get the truck into these locations to do the work they need to do and get them back out without backing out into traffic where they can turn around and on property that the town has some type of control over and where the area that they're backing around on is a safe area for them to be. The ones that I went on on the second day, we were looking at how do we resolve some of these issues? One of them where they backed around, it was a slant. So can we add gravel in there to bring it up and make it so the truck can make the swing and do that stuff? That was the issue. There is a safety concern. As soon as an employee raises a safety concern in how they do their job, or a member of the public raises a safety concern on something, we're obligated to look into it and figure out what it is. And in looking at the options that were there for these, the path forward was to follow the state process for valuating the roads and classifying them correctly. So that's the process. I understand that you have to like evaluate everything but it seems out to me that you wouldn't spend any time saying like, what can we do to make this road safe? So that the plow shop drivers will feel safe while they are driving on the road. And also I think the history of the road should be considered as well because I know the history of my road for 70 years has never been an accident on it. And there's never been a complaint by any of the landlord owners about it. So to come up and say that, there's a safety issue on this road now, it seems a little bit like very subjective. And I wonder about the how you got reports from the plow drivers. Well, what about getting reports from maybe an engineering, somebody who has more training in what is safe and what isn't safe instead of somebody who just drives a plow truck? Perhaps we can have everyone in this room that lives on a private road that's done this for a number of years, stand up if you've ever had a safety incident that anyone has ever come to. Did anyone have to pull a plow truck out? Did they go off the road? Did you go off the road? Was there an accident on your road? Did anyone ever come and talk to you and say, hey, we're uncomfortable turning around here? We're all neighbors. You don't shoot your neighbor's dog because it barks. You go and talk to them. What are we doing here? Okay, so what the process is at this point that we're in the middle of is the opportunity when we get to your road for you to tell us those things. That you have- You're not telling us the information. You're not sharing what safety concerns specifically has been addressed on any of the roads that the individuals in this river sit on. You sent everyone a very strongly worded letter and then you've come and done hearings in which every select board person hasn't even attended. And then we're all here tonight but you still won't share information. And I suspect, I know, we've lived on our road for 25, 27, whatever years. You're concerned about Howard Hill. You are not concerned about Hill State Lane. There's never been an accident on that road. And the town also doesn't really do that great a job of maintaining it. If there's a safety issue for the last 25 plus years, you've got money from the state of Vermont and from us as taxpayers to maintain that road. So why are you telling me there's a safety issue now? So Kathy, specifically, I was at your house. I know. And I went on that road. And in your case, right, is a turnaround issue. You park vehicles in your lower driveway where the town can't get turned around in. They have challenge to have to back all the way out. Your road's very narrow. So in conjunction, I'm sorry to start on my barrier. Jeff. Jeff. We talked to him and your father was there who is an engineer and we talked about options of putting gravel in at a turnaround place, actually at two places at yours. So to Trini's point, we are looking at other solutions outside of reclassification. And in addition, I have specific notes from the town highway head who has indicated on which roads they're pulled trucks out on and how many times per year they do that. And I have that here on all the ones I went to. So that's the information that we're gathering. It's an information gathering and the anger of a reclassification that hasn't even happened. It's a safety assessment that we're required to act on. But you're not sharing that information with everyone. We just collected it, right? And this is why we're here tonight, is to hear. So pass us around the list, please. All of those things are so important. It is not true at all. I'm sorry, careful. What you're hearing is that the information that you have is something that we haven't been able to get access to the people who asked for the reports. Apparently, we weren't telling anything because I know two people called and said that they had asked for problem reports. And I'm obviously at this point. First time ever. So was that list that you have of the town trucks that have been pulled off something that could be obtained by the townspeople who were asking about why their road had come under consideration? So I'd have to ask from the procedural standpoint whether that, you know, we get our notes together and distribute those, I'm not sure. But I don't know who's requested and who's received your request for any of these reports the first time hearing it. So I haven't gotten any requests from any of them. But I was told there are none. There's no reports. There's notes, right? I mean, these are my chicken scratch right here and all of them. I'm sorry. Why weren't the people notified of these safety problems at the time they were addressed to you to the town manager? It boils down to the article you people had several months ago in a paper. You just want to take class three roads and change them to class four. That's the bottom line. You're not talking safety. All right, that just doesn't make a bit of sense. I live on Tentford Drive. And from the day that road was put in, there's never been a national on that road that I know of. With an easement in the deed that says the town and that it's to the right of way for highway purposes granted to the town of Randolph. So you guys were granted right away to do that. Maybe a great opportunity for a solution at that point. You guys wanted to just take the class three roads, change them to class four, give us the land back. And I think it's an underhanded thing you're doing with all of us people. I mean, nobody in this room has been notified of a safety problem. And yet you people are saying, that's the main reason why we got the meeting. And I think, I can't be honest about this, but I'm wondering if them 17 roads that he's pertaining to are all class three roads. Because originally, that's what you people went after. One house on a road. Because that was in the paper. And on that, are those 17 roads, one house, two houses? No, there's several of the roads that have more than one house on it. Several, meaning two roads have more than one house on it. There was at least the seven, whatever I visited, there was two or three. So I didn't go the next day. And most of those roads have opportunity to expand or develop that property should they want to. Not an accurate statement, no. So I'd appear just to adult though, this came up in 2016 in December before he was here. So part of the confusion appears to be why it was initially raised as a cost issue. And then it came up again with an almost identical road list with a safety question. My understanding is the original list that was put together that came before the board then was safety issues that were raised. And Mel Adams put numbers to it of what that meant. The $200, I think, we get paid a year from the state that we would lose. And then he had a variety of numbers that he had put together on what it would take, including one of the roads he actually put what it would cost the town to bring it up to standard. And it was over a million dollars to bring that road up to standards. So there was a bunch of numbers and a bunch of scenarios that went around at that time. But the original list did come from the highway folks with some concerns. The problem is we went through a transition there. The issue got dropped. And then poor adult would get to pick up the hot potato and finish the process because it was identified as an issue that never got resolved. That may explain the why confusion about why it was originally seen as a cost savings issue. And now it's not really a very big cost savings at all. Yes, it is. You are one of the people that wrote my property told me that it was a cost issue also on how much it costs to maintain the trucks and plows and everything that you utilize to plow or maintain it, I should say. And that. I don't remember a discussion about the cost of the trucks. I remember the discussion about the turnaround areas not ours to take with the fact. And I think somebody here made a nice statement when they said that those roads can't be the only roads in Randolph that's got problems. Yeah, we had a question. Have you looked into any problems of accidents with the trucks? Have you? How many have? Well, we actually, on one of the roads, we had talking with the owner about how he helped pull it back up out. So, and it's. Well, is that an employee's responsibility to keep the truck on the road? Well, yeah, I think so. But if the area is not safe for him to do it, it's a little bit of a challenge. You know, you take my property. When you go start up the Rosie Honk Road, the ditches on both sides of the road are six foot deep. I went out and measured them. And they're five foot wide at the top. And if the drivers can plow that road and not go off of it, they sure in hell can plow that road I'm on, because it's wide as a pancake. You was there, you saw it, and there's no maintenance ever been done on that road, and it was put in in 65. And never has any, not one loaded gravel, nothing. The only thing they've done is plow. And it hasn't needed it either. I mean, he's not saying you guys didn't do your job. He's just saying it's a very low maintenance road. Yeah. And, you know, he expected, because the deed says, the town is, well, the town owns it. But if the town owned just what you guys said at our place was we don't own the turnaround, why would the town of Randolph make a road that couldn't be turned around on? And I don't believe that the previous owners made that turnaround. It's the same material that the road is. It's the same height. It, you know, so it's just, at least for us, it's just like, whoa, you know, there's plenty of room. My father even had a telephone pole put in with a big light on it so that there would be plenty of room to see. So I guess it's just, when something's in your deed, you expect that to be, you know. Honored. I mean, what gives the town the right to change my deed? Well, I don't think the town's changing. If you, if I heard what you read correctly, it's the town has a right away for highway purposes. Okay. Correct? Yeah. So right away, she's saying the right away doesn't, the town doesn't own the right away. We own the right away. It doesn't mean we have to. The town owns it. All we have to do with it. So lots of times you'll have somebody will have a right away for water rights across your land. It doesn't mean they have to dig it up and put water rights in there or it doesn't say, you know. We also see a right away across property for highway purposes that ends up being used as a trail. That was part of the ancient roads process. So the state and the towns all went through for, I don't know how long that was, five or six years it took to get through that. We went to one property and the ancient, or a couple of them, the ancient roads process identified the roads that went on, but the town didn't, in some cases, the landlord themselves lobbied for us not to keep that and to throw it up at the end of where they wanted the town to maintain the road. So the trail portion that would be there for public use is gone from the ancient roads process. So, you know, you have, in that case, there might be a right away in your deed that's no longer valid either because the town chose not to take action towards the ancient roads, but a right away doesn't mean you have to use that right away. Yes, but we were told that you can't turn around because you don't own the property, but don't you, if you have a right away to be on that property, I can be within my right away, right? I can be within my right away. So my right away on that, or the town's, is a straight path in. To the garage. It's not over on the lawn here or... And how do you know that when that road was built that turnaround was not part of the... Because your dad told me about the material he had brought in there. I brought it in on my own. So I had access to Greenwood's equipment when I worked for them. So I took the dump truck. That's how we know. I thought that was the end of the driveway. No, no, I put it in the driveway. That's how we know. It took me the surgery when we were there that day. I only did it because I figured it out. Save you guys. That's all right. Nobody's complaining. I think this whole investigation on these roads has been really half-assed to put it that way. Okay, thank you. Because I'll tell ya, we should have been notified of all the safety of our passengers on our roads that these people live on. And we haven't been. And I don't want to hear Mr. Adams didn't do it. Somebody didn't do it, and I don't care who they are. Okay, thank you. So to make use of the time that we have here as we're gathering this information, let's go road by road so people can tell us the information they came prepared tonight to present to us. Then remember, we still have a 30 to 60 day period after this before a decision is made. Then gives us the opportunity to have that back and forth to find a solution before any decisions are made. So with that, was there any information on Rainbow Drive after all this? With information, no, I have a comment. But, so I'm the only house on the road. So I understand why you don't want to plow it. But my concern is we throw it up. Your safety hazard is now my problem. So I'm not prepared to fix a culvert or the narrow road or any of the things that make it unsafe for you guys. Do you have no problem just giving it to me to figure out when it's a road? Where you've received money from the state for years to make sure there weren't any safety issues on that road. Yeah, just to be clear, we do not receive very much money from the state on the bus for your highways. But you do receive tax money and you have tax. So the next one is the Donnie Smith Drive. Yeah, I'm some Donnie Smith Drive and I just had a few questions that, how can two or three people change a road? I mean, I wouldn't think that there's three people could say, okay, this is gonna be a class three road. And I've lived there for many years. It's been in the family for 200 years. And it's always, we have grain trucks come in with tractor trailers. We have a milk truck that comes in is bigger than your plow trucks. And we don't have any trouble. I know there was an accident on my road with a plow truck, but I think the town had a little something to do with that one. The water used to run down the wheel tracks. And then after the town truck kipped over up there, they decided that summer they come up and put in some new culverts, changed the water situation, built the road up some and we've never had any trouble since. So that's what I think about it. I can address the road. Greg Bissen, I'm the owner of GK Bissen Trucking. I pick up the milk at Dawn Smith's farm. I drive some big trucks. And as you guys know, you're welcome to ride with us. We go into some terrible places and we have to go. And my heart hats off to the town crews. Actually, I wish I could cancel milk trucks on days schools canceled because we know the roads aren't gonna get sanded at eight o'clock in the morning when we're out there. So for Dawn to be left with that issue of trying to take care of that road the way you guys maintain them, it probably won't happen the same. You guys have the equipment that can push back the sides and everything else in order to let our trucks get through. So we're safe if we meet a car coming up that road or stuff, we have room to get over without that equipment. It's not gonna happen. I represent the farmers here tonight just in a sheer case of it's not anywhere we, I mean, we look up to you guys to be there when we need you there. And I did hear a couple of months ago that on the news that the state of Vermont was gonna allocate some funds for class four roads because they are becoming behind and caught up. So I encourage you guys to look into that and see if that's available. Some funding to create those turnarounds and things like that. I mean, Trini, you know. So yeah, but I heard about it on the radio and so if it's a system that helps you guys run an outlet. But I really- You're gonna do some grants on class fours for stormwater. Yeah. Management. I'm here on behalf of the farmers tonight. And that's our- Don't get small and close and close. We don't have any complaints on our road for the town crew. I think they do an excellent job. I mean, I very seldom ever call them and tell them, you know, we need this or need that. But they take good care of my road. And you know, I've been happy with the way it's done. There's no complaints here. I appreciate everything you guys do. And I hope to see it keep happening because I don't know what would do without you. Ferris Drive. Manager's Drive. Hillside Lane. West Side. Hillside. Check the time to write some stuff down. So there we- Check. Bacon. Charles Bacon. Although people who know me call me Chip. If I'm Charles, I'm in trouble. I was born here in Randolph. I've lived here pretty much all my life. And my wife and I met here in elementary school just a few years ago. And we've lived on Hillside Lane since before it had a name. We've raised a family there. My wife and I chose to settle here because this has always been home. A lot of our extended family lives around here, but more than that, we believe it's a great community where people generally care about each other and support each other. We own a business in town that employs a fair number of people and we try to have a positive impact on the community. Receiving a letter from the town manager, Mr. Baylon, stating the town's considering reclassifying Hillside Lane due to safety concerns during snow plowing operations that had been reported by snow plow drivers employed by the town. There's been a homestead on the site now served by Hillside Lane for nearly as long as Randolph has existed. Presumably there was a road to get in or to get to it for the vast majority of that time. Hillside Lane has been a class three highway since the classification system came into being in 1974. According to 19, I'm not a lawyer, but I've done some reading. And according to the Vermont State Statutes, 19 PSA section 302, they define a class three highway as being, quote, negotiable under normal conditions all seasons of the year by a standard manufactured pleasure car. 19 PSA section 310, adjusted the town's responsibility to keep the class three highways, quote, in good and sufficient repair during all seasons of the year. Both of those sections contain a notable exception, quote, based on safety considerations for the traveling public and municipal employees, unquote, that gives the select board the, quote, authority to determine whether a class two or class three highway or section of highway should be plowed and made negotiable during the winter, unquote. Nowhere in those statutes does this address the classification or discontinuance of a road as a way of addressing safety concerns regarding winter maintenance operations. The notification letter I received cited 19 PSA chapter seven, which describes a process to be followed when considering reclassification or discontinuance of the town road. According to that statute, after sight has been examined and hearings held, the select board must judge whether, quote, the public good necessity and convenience of the inhabitants of the municipality require, unquote, the road to be reclassified. That appears to be the standard to be met in deciding this issue. Does the public good require this proposed action? Like the category of state that is an inhabitant of this municipality that reclassified or discontinuing hillside lane isn't going to add convenience. Safety concerns are an emotional issue, but the law talks about safety considerations. Considerations is defined as a, quote, fact for a motive taken into account in deciding or judging something. So what are the facts? My family and I have lived on hillside lanes for a quarter century. In that time, I cannot recall a single accident on that road. Not once in 25 years has there been any indication that plowing hillside lane is exceptionally risky or dangerous for plowed drivers or the public. Let's face it, if you can have any Howard Hill to get there, hillside lane isn't your problem. We're not considering reclassifying Howard Hill road, are we? Incidentally, I pulled more cars off of Howard Hill than you can count. Hillside lane is probably wider, smoother, and generally better safer condition now than it has ever been. Now we're supposed to believe that after many, many decades of normal weather maintenance on hillside lane without any evidence of incident or accident, this road and a bunch of others are suddenly such a safety hazard that not only can't you run plow trucks on them, they're so dangerous that they need to be reclassified or discontinued for the public good. This simply doesn't make sense. Have there been any documented safety incidents involving municipal employees on hillside lane? If so, I would ask that those incident reports be added into the public record for this hearing. Have there been any reports of safety incidents or hazards, road conditions on hillside lane from the traveling public? If so, I would also ask that those incident reports be added into the public record for this hearing. Have there been any reported accidents on hillside lane involving municipal employees or the traveling public? If so, those should be entered into the public record. I appreciate the great work our road crews do, and I certainly don't want their doves to be any more difficult than they need to be. I'm happy to work with the town and road crew to try and address their concerns, but we can't solve problems if we don't know they exist. To have the first hint of a problem come in the form of a threat of discontinuance was disappointing. Why not come and talk about it first instead of going straight to the nuclear option? If there were concerns, the former town manager or the highway supervisor could have simply notified us of those concerns so that we can work toward a resolution without getting into a contentious and possibly protracted and expensive administrative and legal process. During the recent visit, nearly all the discussion revolved around whether there was adequate turnaround space for the plows to maneuver. In all the years we've lived there, this is the first time this issue has ever been raised. Certainly the drivers would like to avoid backing out of the road and should be able to accommodate that. The turnaround area at the end of Hillside Lane is already far larger and flatter than it was in previous decades. If we need to ensure that no cars are parked in that area during storm events, that can be done. If a larger space is needed, we can construct the space on the west side of the road pretty easily as a side note within the easement. Finally, I'm really disappointed in how this process has played out to be suddenly confirmed with the possibility that the road to my home may be thrown up and then gut wrenching. While this may seem like a simple administrative change, it has real-world consequences for those of us who live on these roads. When we purchased our property, the fact that it was on a town road was a key selling point. We paid a premium for that access and still hold the mortgage that reflects that. The possibility that Hillside Lane could, with the stroke of a pen, turn from an asset to a liability never entered into our plans. I've spoken with a highly qualified real estate appraiser to get an estimate of the impact of such a change on the value of our property and was told that while a full appraisal would need to be done to get a precise figure, it would likely result in a reduction of about 20% in market value. As my wife and I approach retirement and the possible future sale of our property, the prospect of such a large financial hit is very concerning. The notice I received specifically stated that this process has been driven by safety concerns. At no time during this process has the town addressed the financial impacts that will be imposed upon residents who would be adversely affected by the decision to reclassify or discontinue these roads. I would ask that the board not continue with the process of reclassifying or discontinuing Hillside Lane and instead allow us to work with the town to ensure the adequate space is available to turn their trucks around when plowing. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Any more for Hillside? Tedford? Tedford. What if the situation is that you don't own the turnaround? What if we were to have a lawyer draw up easement to that part of the property so that the town could turn around on that without any legal liability? That's something I would like to be considered. Because again, they're the only safety issue that was brought up when you guys came to visit the road. And I too appreciate the time you guys do and what you do. But again, the only issue as those of you who visited the road, there's plenty of room to turn around and whatnot. But the problem with our road was that the town does not own the turnaround. So we would be happy to get an easement and have a contract or whatever, have a lawyer draw that up so the town would have absolutely no liability and still be able to turn around. Because it's my understanding that was the only issue on our road, correct? Is there another issue besides the turnaround? I believe it was your drive is long and narrow. And then it's moving around. But I don't know. It's narrow, but we would have to check cars coming up and down. The guys, because we can't take the regular trucks, I think, the ones that are close to the time. It's a pickup that goes over there to plow it. Well, the last two years, so it was a 10,000. The last two years, the plow trucks. Hey, folks, please. On conversation at a time, thank you. I know in the beginning, yes, when they first bought the property 21 years ago, it was a pickup truck, a red pickup truck. I remember it precisely. And very nice guy driving it. But the last couple years has been, and I'm not saying every single time, because obviously we don't see every single time. But I know when I've been up there and my parents have seen the big dump trucks can fit up there. And again, the safety concern that was brought up to us on the site visit was simply the turnaround didn't belong to the town. So my understanding is there's no other safety issue there. Yes, it's narrow, but it's narrow enough for a truck to go up. Is it narrow enough for a truck to pass a car? No, but it's a straight shot. And nobody in my parents' house, I'm certainly not going to decide to go down the driveway when the truck's plowing. But if there's another safety concern, we'd like to know. But that would be my request, is that we be allowed to get a legal easement so that you can turn around on the property. Again, just to me, that would be very simple and dry. And I don't believe there anybody's trucks are going to be an issue, or anybody's safety would be involved if you do that. Can I just say your name and the road that you're on? Tedford Dryer. And Susan McMeal. Thank you. Moxley? Brad? Who? Is there something or is there something? Moxley. I guess the issue is the turnaround for us also. And the road stops right at our house. Yet other people live up above, as you know. So I'm kind of in a little bit of a corner. Because how do you get the other folks, if you do throw the road up, which I would prefer, as opposed to reclassifying it to a four. But how do you get everybody together? Ship in on the plowing of it. And so we have a little conundrum there, too. Yeah, and I think if it wasn't yours, that was another one where we talked about any action. Because if you get the other one, somebody else talked about having us throw the road up. And the issue is that we can't leave anybody landlocked either. So part of that would give a right. That right away would belong to all of them. Yeah, the sugar house and the other folks. And you do that to one. And that's in that agreement is where you sort out those type of details. OK. I'll let you know how that works. So it isn't just to be a budding landowner. It's to people up back. Yeah, they all end up with it right away through that area. Right. But here again, I mean, if it's an issue of turning the truck around if it's possible, I mean, we would also be happy to do what we could to, you know, make you harmless on that, on building a turnaround by giving you an easement. Can I make this a machine? Hang on, we're on monster right now. At one point up on yours, there was a whole loop. Yeah, right. Well, it was a drive-in. And it came down in front of the house. And the town truck would make that loop. And the changes that have happened there have changed where the truck has to back up. And it's not a straight entrance into there. There's a culvert there with a ditch that drops off. And then you have the new trees coming on the other side, which cuts down the turning radius. So there's a variety of challenges. Kind of made it so you don't have to throw it out. Right. I'd like to make a statement on this gentleman's driveway. I drove for Greenwood with a hell of a lot bigger truck than what the town drivers are driving. Now, I could turn around in his yard with no problem. Why is that? The driveway has changed. It's done some construction up there and changed the alignment of the drives and all that. That's one. Well, a couple of years. Since you've been driving for Greenwood. I would like to say that we appreciated your side visit and the time it took to come. And I also want to say that we appreciated understanding what the problem was. Because until the side visit, we had no idea that there was a problem at all. And so then, when you explained what the problem was and how it could be fixed, that seemed very reasonable, cost efficient, and good for everyone. So although we would want it to be discontinued as opposed to class four, we surely love the road to be fixed and the turnaround to be fixed and maintain, have you guys continue your wonderful maintenance of the road. So thank you. Thanks. What's your name? Fenty Flint and Peter Flint. OK, thank you. Thanks. Sorry. That's a good drive. Blaisdell Drive, Bosse Road. We're picking up speed. Blue Goose? Yeah. Hi, my name's TJ Riley. I think I've given you guys all the information already. But I met, as per the meeting on last Friday, I met with Bill on Monday. And Bill, correct me if I'm wrong, he didn't seem to have any concerns down there, but mentioned bringing up a load of material just to level it off a little bit. And I think that was about it, right, Bill? Yeah. And then as for any of the legalities, there's already, as you know, there's an agreement between the town and myself for the dry hydrant. So if there needs to be any amendments to the language to that to specify turning around, that's certainly I'm sure. I don't know if an easement would be necessary, but I'm certainly happy to reflect that in any verbiage with the town so that they're covered in terms of liabilities. So other than that, I think the town does a great job maintaining it. I know they brought up a bunch of material this summer and put it on the road. So that's about it. Yeah, my name's Bruce Weil. I don't live on Blue Goose. I have land abutting it. I live on Silloway Road. Just two points. The hydrant does feed seven houses or does supply seven houses. So it is a, I think to some degree, a safety concern, especially in the winter if the road isn't plowed properly for the fire truck to get there. Kermit had said they can run a hose, but that's valuable time down the drain. The other thing is the sentiment I've heard in the room is that when we got the ladder, we pulled a muscle in the back of my brain trying to figure out what the safety hazard was. So when it came up that it was just turnaround, we kind of had to back down a little because we couldn't figure out what the real problem was. That's all my comments. Palmer Road. Mark Kelly, Palmer Road. Well, OK, so now I've learned that the safety issue was the turnaround at the end of the road, which, as we know, Cross has been turning around there for nearly 100 years. Thank you. And, of course, no problem. And no safety issue besides that, as far as I know. So that's one thing. I'm also concerned on a larger issue, and that is that most of these roads go to farms. Most of them actually are in the East Valley. So the burden that this puts on the farmers is real. And I think that the town has, for 100 years, assumed that burden as part of its civic duty to provide a working farm with the necessary access that they need to do their work. Taking that away from the farmers is, I think, it's easy to do once you start thinking like somebody from a town or a city. But I think that would be the travesty to forget about the people that made this town. And that's the problem. TJ, I also own property off Palmer, so just to echo what Mark had said, I got like 150 acres up there that can't really be accessed with any big equipment through Braille and Palmer's really the only road in there. And I think you guys are well aware that the state just put a hundred how many millions of dollars into that new bridge. And also, if in terms of resolving the turnaround, if there's any necessity to throw any of my property into the mix to make a safer turnaround, I certainly would be happy to do that. Because I think we need to remember in this that we do need to, even if maybe we don't agree with the process, we do need to make sure that we are addressing safety concerns. And I commend you folks for doing that and keeping it above board. That's all I got. Well, one thing, on the subject of the turnaround, that's actually, I've expanded it because I've built in the foundation and now parking our cars over the foundation. So it's a completely different situation than the actual room to turn around as expanded by about 10 feet. But if the issue is simply you can't turn around because it's not counted properly, then that would appear to be the issue that should be addressed. Was that foundation? Sorry, you built a new structure there in the turnaround too? No. Where they used to turn around? No, because the cars were there before. In fact, the cars stuck out farther than the structure they came from. There's also a well head right there, too, where the, if I understand right, where the trucks pull up and go straight forward, there's a well head right there. And what is? And just one more comment on Palmer Road. This is CJ Stump. Thank you. So Palmer is also a right of way to our property because our property is serviced by Braley Cover Bridge, which has height and width restrictions. I drive trucks and trailers and I have brought them and turned them around on the Palmer Road property. And I have seen the new structure and I agree with Mark that it is not something that I would find, it is further off, where I would have turned around previously. So there is actually more space now than there was previously. So just to echo the fact that that is an important access and that the, as somebody who herself brings in both gooseneck and, not often, but it is the alternate, both gooseneck and straight hitch trailers, I can get them swinging around there. Not heard before. Joel Whitney. I spoke with a select man and the town manager, some of the select men in the town manager when they were up there. So there's not much more I can say. I do know that, I don't know how often, but in the past I have seen a fire truck up there filling up at the Colbert for the people on Spona Road. That might be an issue. Other than that, I don't have any, I do have a question though. You said in the beginning, but what's the, this is the hearing or the statements and what's the process after this? So after tonight there'll be, we can't make a decision for at least 30 days, but no longer than 60 days before the decision. So we're at least another 30 days, probably closer to 60 days, we'll have to continue gathering information from folks. Sometimes you get in these hearings and you're like, dang, I should have said, so it gives you a chance to. There's not a whole lot I can say that I haven't, but the town manager explained to me some of, like it does go to a class four. Of course it's not a priority, but they still, the Colbert's and the, it's a storm like Irene comes through again, but he will repair it even if it was a class four. There's still our maintenance standards for class four, right? That's right, yeah. So there's that issue. And then once you've made the decision, is there any notification again before that or you just, will you send a letter just saying we have decided or? It'll be, so what we'll do is set a hearing for a date by which then we'll sit down and we'll go road by road and the board will make the decision on each road, what we're gonna do. And then, I believe there's a period of time from when the decision's made to when the change takes effect. And I don't know if that's 30 or 45 days. So it might very well mean that someone has to start plowing their road in the middle of the winter. Yep. Just like curiosity, yes. Time-wise it could, yep. Great time. Yeah, that would be good. Why wouldn't he have done it during the summer? Anyway, before I, I just want to thank you guys for everything you have done. And I know that my road's not a big priority but I would appreciate it if you kept it going. Thank you. Jackson Road. Yeah, I'll start for that. You guys came up for the inspection. Can you state your name? Jim Siegel. My understanding was that the problem was the turnaround at the top. Was that the only problem with the road or was there other problems? So the notes that I have, one was the turnaround, two was the steep corner going down, third there's a bunch of storm water that's coming off properties into an area that the town doesn't own and then that storm water is going down and washing out the road, right? So there's some property maintenance stuff right at the top on both sides of the road. That's one that you and I, yeah. Yeah, right at the end of the road. Yeah, and that's the notes that I had on that for those three items. Can I know that we've had logging trucks up there which I think was part of the issue with the bottom of the road, certainly for last winter, but the logging trucks have also turned around at the top of Jackson Road. And if there's enough room for a logging truck to get in there and turn around, it would seem like there's enough room for a plow truck to get in there. I mean, I've been up and down that road. You know, I moved to Randolph a couple of years ago and had to get a plow truck from my driveway. And at times I've had to plow Jackson Road myself because that was the only way we could get a car up and down there and being an inexperienced plow driver, I was able to successfully navigate Jackson Road many times during snowstorms. And I'd never felt that it was unsafe. So I want to say that. And I want to say that, like somebody was up here was talking about community and you know, on Jackson Road, you know, we don't get, we don't use town water, you know, we don't use town sewer, you know, we don't have any kids that are in the town school, you know, so like our taxes go towards the road, which is the only way that we really utilize or get back the tax money that we're paying. And, but we don't complain about that. You know, we're part of a community, you know? And so we pay taxes to the school, you know? And we want kids to get educated because they're part of the community and we're part of the community. And we want to make, you know, we want to make this or be part of this town and make it as good as it can be. And, but when I hear that you're not gonna be, there's a safety concern. And because of the safety concern, you don't want to plow the roads anymore. That like, like my question is, are you really doing your job? You know, because like, if your job isn't to, if your plow driver isn't safe on Jackson Road, which I feel he is, but if you feel that he's not safe, then it wouldn't be safe for us either, right? And as we pay money to this community, like to pay for schools and for sewers that we don't use, like, you know, I heard the number, like a million dollars for repairing something, like if the people in this room had to cough up, we don't have the equipment, right? But if we had to cough up a million dollars to make our road safe, we just couldn't do it. I mean, I don't think, I can't do it, you know? But that's what you guys are here for. Like you're here to build a community, to make the community safe, right? To make it so people can run their farms or go to work, right? That's your job, you know? And to just say, you know, that road's unsafe, so we're just gonna like, throw our hands up and you're on your own, you know, that's not building a community. That's not, you know, and, you know, that's not what the select board that I would wanna live with, you know, would do, you know? So I'm pretty frustrated with this whole thing. I'm pretty frustrated that I got a notice, but the other people in Jackson Road didn't get one, you know, and I have a really good relationship with my neighbor, so that's fine, I'll talk with them, you know, and share the information, but, you know, I'm really frustrated with this process. Like, I really think we could have done better with this, you know, like, you know, if there was an issue with the bottom of the road, that's my problem, fix it. You know, if they had to cut some of the bank away to make the road a little bigger, do that, that's my property, do that, I'm okay with that. You know, the top of the road, well, you know, logging trucks can get around up there, the plow truck can get around. But anyways, I wanna thank you all for the job you do, and I'm pretty frustrated, and, you know, I've never been to one of these meetings before. I'm really hoping that I will never come to another one. Oh, thank you. Oh, thank you, thank you so much. Yeah, well, exactly, exactly. But, you know, but we're all on this together, and we live in Vermont. There's hills here, there's mountains here, there's steep roads. Like, all right, make them safe, and then everyone, you know, lives together happy. So, I'm, I have an additional comment on Jackson Road. Gerald Vargo, I didn't get a letter because I'm actually in Brentree. So, I maintain the 700 feet of road. The Brentree doesn't maintain where the town line is, where Jackson Road stops and Jackson Drive starts. Does that go up to the left there? Yeah. I sand it, I cloud it, I maintain it, I ditched it, I've culverted it, I material it, you know, tens of thousands of dollars gone into this road. But, I'm psyched because it sounds to me, like, this whole process, you guys took the time to go up there and look at all these roads because there's safety concerns. Your drivers feel they're unsafe. They let you know, and you went out and looked at them. Now, you're asking us for our safety, you know, any concerns we have. So, ideally, we're gonna get these fixed because you really don't want to have to reclassify any of these roads, right? Is that a fair statement? No. Would you agree with that? Or is that really the end game? This is just a bunch of bullshit. So, just to clarify, when I said the million dollar number, that was to bring a road up to standards. So, the state of Vermont sets out standards for roads and to get the funding we get from the state, we have to agree to adopt those standards. And if we don't agree to adopt them, then we have to have our own standards and we have a higher match on grants that we get through the agency of transportation. So, Randolph has adopted those standards. So, the million dollar number on that one road was if we took that road and brought it up to standards. None of these roads that I went to look at on the second day are at standard because they don't have the width to them, they don't have any of it. So, I'm not gonna say that we want to invest in all these roads to bring them up to standard because you're in brain tree and don't have to pay the tax bill, the rest of the residents of Randolph would have to pay if we brought all these up to standards. It's just not possible. We don't have the financial capacity, nor do I think it would be a wise choice to bring them all up. When you look at the car count on some of these, we have other roads that have a lot more traffic that have needs that with limited funding would come ahead of them. So, I don't- This is not really about identifying safety issues and working with the people on the roads to address them. Is there gonna be an opportunity for that? We already have. So, you mentioned you're gonna make a decision, right? You wanna hear our concerns tonight. That's what we're here for, right? You wanna hear what we feel is unsafe. What you feel is that, how you feel about is the road, what was coming to us tonight was your view on the road and what options are there. In some cases, you heard where they've taken the time to meet with the highway folks to look at the road and what would it take? And is there a plan? How can we make that happen? So, it's that type of input that we're looking for tonight. So, that is the process so that we don't have to reclassify so we can make them safe for everybody. So, there's gonna be the opportunity to work with the town. And I'm not even in the town. I just have to use that road to get to work. So. Jared, does Jackson Road connect through to Braintree? Yeah, the town line goes right along Jackson Road. And then when you take a left at Fuzzy's house, you magically end up in Braintree and now you're on Jackson Drive, which I maintain. There is no other way to get to Braintree, though, besides going on Jackson Road. For you to go from Braintree back to Braintree. Yeah, yeah, not only. You have to go to Randolph to go to Braintree. I mean, I could hike over to Mold Lake or across the road. Yeah. You know. Wait when you go by. Yeah. But to even say you're gonna reclassify the roads in the letter is basically saying you safety concerns are just a reason to do it, not that you want to address it. And you want, you know, ideally you would not have to reclassify any of the roads. If you could just take care of the problems and then everybody would be safe. So out of the eight that I was on the first day, right out of those eight, we identified five of those which had viable or possible type solutions rather than reclassification. I don't know the cost in fact of those. We said, hey, that may be an opportunity there. And there are some that was purely like, you know, no way to do it. So from my perspective, you know, looking at opportunities that aren't a million dollar solutions for our viable way to go. Yeah, well, it would just be nice to know if, like if Jackson Road is one of those that you just, it can't be done, well, everything can be done. It's just a matter of money and time, right? So what, what is that? What is that magic number? You know, that's what we would need to know. The cool thing about this list was there's not a dollar amount anywhere on it, no idea. I mean, I'm not a, I'm not a engineer. But it seems like decisions might be made without that information and not even having the opportunity to address the concerns before is not something that's going to sit wrong. Right, so it started the process now, right? Right. And that's, so that's what I'm trying to understand is that what is really happening? Is that what's really happening? Is this a process where safety issues can be identified, planned attack can be made, solutions can possibly be, and maybe you say, hey, you know what, it's not worth it, you know, but before all of a sudden, oh, no, we're not following your road anymore, you know. Could I get some clarification on something that you said? You said that the town has its own standards. No, I didn't. No, I said. The town does have its own standards. But those are the state of Vermont standards that we adopted. Right, but the state of Vermont, the law says that a class three road is one that you can navigate all seasons of the year in a regular passenger car. Does the state funding require that you be up to these public standards or just that it can be navigable by a standard passenger car during all seasons of the year? That's the state law definition of a class three road. So are you saying that in order for you to get state funding, you have to meet every letter of these requirements? No, what I said was we looked at one of the roads that was identified and we said, if we brought it up to match the state standards, it would be almost a million dollars. That's different than you have to. Because what I'm hearing is, you don't have to bring it up to that standard. You have to make it so it can be navigated for the state law. And that is probably a number that is far less than the million dollars you stated. I understand it correctly. The town adopted the state. Right, I've read them. Correct. But is that your statement? That it would take far less than the million dollars to do an adequate job to make sure that cars can travel on it. It would depend on the road. So each road has their own. In some cases, we found simple solutions. That could solve the issue. In some of the others, there weren't such simple solutions. That would take a lot more investment. Do we have to take all 17 and bring them all the way up to the Cadillac standards that we've adopted? I don't know. But you're still eligible for the state per mile appropriations for Class 3 roads as long as they are sufficiently wide and can be traveled on? Just to be clear, this isn't for us to continue. We're not looking at this because the $200 a year we get is such a great thing to go out of there. It's $6,000 a year. For just so we can be clear, for the 17 roads we're talking about, it's $800 a year. It's not 6,000. Would you like to go on the state website and look at exactly what comes down because it's public dollars sharing one of this from making go on and see exactly what Randolph's got for the last number of years? I might go on taxes too. Yeah, I'm not, I'm just disputing. I don't worry about the cost. I just want to be clear as to what you're talking about is that you're not required to meet the standard in every situation. You just need to make the roads possible so they can be considered Class 3 roads. Yeah. Okay. Where we get into having to meet the standards is if we have San Irene went through and wiped your road out, it has to be reconstructed to those standards. If we're doing a major reconstruction project, it has to come up to those standards. So there's basically when the state had everybody adopt the standards, then there was a process set up by which the dream would be for everybody to eventually get to that standard. What's the state proportion or even a portion in the case of a major event? What's their percentage of the cost? It depends on the event and where you get, it can be anywhere from 75% to 90%. No, but the town does get, by adopting road and bridge standards and several other things, so there's a, FEMA will pay up to 75% of an event under certain circumstances. Then there's the match of 25% that is split, typically between the state and the town, that with the more things the town adopts to do resilient things like road and bridge standards, the less the town has to pay. So I mean, in something like an Irene event, if you're in like a town like Bethel, it's like hundreds of thousands of dollars in the town saves by doing that. All right. I've heard the town. Kate, so do we have any more comments on Jackson, Ryan? I'm still wondering about the process. As far as you said in 30 to 60 days, you're gonna make a decision. So between now and then, I'm assuming a plan has to be made to what the needs are, what the costs are, are you willing to accept them? There's multiple people involved with the road. So is everybody involved willing to pony up? Is it a state thing? Is it a town liability? So when's that happening before the decision is moved? From tonight to the day that we set for the hearing to make a decision on each road. How are you making a decision? What are you basing, what's the criteria upon which you are basing your decision? It's based on all the information that we're gonna gather and look at. All the information is just information. You have to have sort of a say, okay, we look at all this information and compare it against these criteria. There are certain things that you would have to meet to say, okay, this is too expensive for us to invest in. So we would throw it up. Too expensive to bring up to the standards that are necessary for safety. And that's my point, this is that there needs to be some sort of standards by which you're judging this. Otherwise you're just arbitrarily making the decision to throw up a road. Based on a safety concern, of which there's no definition of what safety is. And that's not when you, it's just the way statute is, just a safety, it's real. Who knows? And so I guess I'd like to know what the criteria are. And this is one of the, I mean, it gets to this gentleman's point. We have property by the way on Jacksonville as well. It's not our driveway, but it's property on there. But his point, it's fair. If there's a possible way to remedy a safety problem, are you guys going to discuss that with the landowner or are you just going to sort of say, well, this is a safety problem. It's a done deal. I think it's fair to say that we've been engaged with folks, or say visits I went on, we were engaging with folks about exactly what the issues were, what are the possible solutions and how could we get to a point where the road was safe and So anytime you do a public meeting during the day, you make it challenging for people with day jobs together. I wasn't able to make it to the meeting. Portia, I was able to talk to Mike, so Mike was able to give me some feedback because he and I worked together. So I have an idea of what the thought is, but that's as far as it's gone. I have an idea what the problem is. I don't, as far as I can tell, this is a done deal. You guys are just going to be like, there's a problem on the road, so we're going to reclassify it. And it creates no recourse to be able to work with a landowner to find a way to solve the problem collectively. And what I'm trying to figure out is exactly what he was just asking you is, is there going to be an opportunity? Mike, should I expect a call from somebody? You've told me that you're going to make a decision after a particular period of time, but not what's going to happen during that period of time, other than you're going to sit down and sort of look at the facts and then make a decision. You're not looking for a solution. You're just looking at the information you've got and making a decision based on the information, not trying to find a way to work the situation. So Chris, there are no other site visits and obviously you weren't at yours. So we talked about solutions to the issues. We talked about whether something went off there, whether it's a turnaround. Sometimes it's people are parked in the way. Obviously, it's been said a lot of times. I don't remember you talking about solutions. I don't remember anybody talking about it. Can I finish, please? Thank you. And we talked about solutions in all the locations and what we can do, all right? So from that point in including your feedback tonight, if there's a conversation that could be had between the landowners and the town, then we're encouraging, like we did Mr. Riley, to come in and start having that conversation. That's where we can work through something between now and the 30 to 60 days. Okay, so he asked that question and Trini didn't give him the answer. My bad answer to me is, is that how to getting it when you were getting it? So let me add, the roads that go into other towns, we're gonna have to have the conversation with the other towns and say, okay, we're thinking about doing this there. What do you guys wanna do about it? If we give up Leonard Road that goes into Bethel and there's no random taxpayers on the road, we then have to talk to the municipality and say, you know, we're gonna give this up. Do you guys wanna maintain it? And we won't give it up and we'll just do a road swap with it or something. So it's a process that obviously is gonna go through, but that's my impression of the way we should be going and that's the way we have our people. So we're all gonna hear from you in the next two weeks. One about the town highway. I mean, I'm gonna talk to you. That's a class question. Well, then you're gonna answer questions when we come in this time then? Because I haven't had any questions answered. Maybe these guys will. I haven't had any questions answered by the town manager when I come in, nor have many other people in this town. To be clear, the question you asked was which plow driver made this claim? I asked what the safety concerns were on the road and you told me it was a human resource issue and you wouldn't respond to that. Correct, because your question was which plow driver made this report? I did not ask you what plow driver, not one piece. I asked you what the safety concerns were on the road and could I see a twist? So I think we'll have to disagree, we'll have to agree to disagree, but in this case, to follow up on what Mike just said, we're encouraging you, you're more than welcome to reach out to me. DJ Riley has spoken to me a number of times since the road visit. He's also been in communication with our superintendent for highway. So there is an avenue to continue to share information, to continue to try to discuss your issue independently, not just in the group setting like here today or independently when the select board members went to your road. So I think we're encouraging you to continue the conversation, which is why the process has this wait period as opposed to just making a decision right then and there. Diana Darian from Jackson Road. I have to tell you when I got the letter, I was just like blown out, okay? I've lived in Vermont eight years, came from Texas where there's no snow. I learned to drive on snowy roads. I have no problem at all for my Malibu front wheel drive getting up Jackson Road at all. I think in two years, in two and a half years that we've lived there, I've only had twice that I didn't go up it and it was simply because there was a foot and a half of snow on my road and I was told by the snow plow driver that they were only allowed to plow it twice a day during a storm. So Niel is to say I had to park it in Randolph and eventually they plowed it out and I got up the road. I do not understand where we are on a class three road right at the moment and you had concerns about water on the road and leaking ditches and whatever. So if the culverts are broken or replaced is that not your responsibility to repair that on the road so that we don't have water running over the road instead of through the culverts and down the ditch on the side? In your case, the source of the water is the homeowner's property. We don't have the right to put any culverts in up there. It's the water is the sides of it's right at the top where the street house, the driveway to the right on both sides of that road on that site is it was washed out from water coming down from those properties on both sides. You have no permission to put a culvert in it. Yeah, we're not putting culverts in it. It's not ours. The problem is on your section, our right of way ends at the intersection of the two driveways and Jackson Drive. We plow that during the winter. We plow the top because that's how we get the snow out the end and it goes over the bank. If there's concerns about from the snow plow driver which I don't really get because it's been safe for 70 years, no accidents on that road. And they only grade it maybe once or twice a year. So there's very little. I really don't understand that you can sit up and tell me it's safety concerns all you want to. I'm thinking it's financial because all I keep hearing is how much it would cost to bring these roads up to standard. What I want to know is what are you going to do about my taxes when I can't sell my house when I decide to retire and move to Florida? Because I live on a class four road. I have no means or ways to maintain that road. The culverts or snow plow it. Otherwise you'll maintain in sanding, salting. We pay all of these taxes to town, state, county. The only benefit we have is that road and it's less than two city blocks long. We only live 0.9 miles outside what I consider Randolph when it goes from School Street to Thayer Brook Road. There are roads which worse than ours. Look at Mount Streets. You can't tell me that's not a safety concern. It's got a drop off clip. What did you do? You put a guardrail on it. I'm sure fuzzy would be more than happy for you to put in a culvert or find a way to divert the water because he has a culvert under there. But there's not much you can do when you get all this snow milked off the top of the mountain and it runs off the side where there is no drain. It doesn't wash the road out except on that very edge. And that's because they don't come in and fill it in. There's a drop off. Why don't you make it safe? Put a guardrail in. I don't have any trouble driving up that road. That road is the only benefit that we have by living in this area. We bought that house because it had a nice little road. It was quiet. Randolph has a wonderful reputation. Jim works in Randolph. I work in Montpelier. I drive 60 miles a day. When before we moved to Randolph, I drove four miles to work. We love Randolph. We love the community. We support this community by, we go to the restaurants. We buy our groceries here. We go to the lumber yard. We patronize all of these businesses. And when I get a letter in the mail threatening me that you're gonna turn my road into a class four road, there ain't nothing in that letter to talk about fact finding. There was nothing in there about that. This was, we're considering turning your road into class four. Well, guess what? My property value, which we got told was not true. That the property value on the house would go down. You can't tell me changing that road to a four making it responsibility of three property owners to maintain that road will not decrease my property value when I go to sell that house. When I get ready to retire and move to Florida. Well, maybe Colorado. But the thing is, is that this is just not an appropriate way. The letter could have been worded differently if you were on a fact finding mission. It could have been approached to the landowners. I am willing to let you bulldoze my little fence down and make a turnaround right there at the top of Jackson Road. Totally willing. Why would a property line for a road for the county stop right at the top? Okay, so he's gonna plow up to there. Where's he gonna go from there? Three driveways to turn around in. If a logging truck with a long bed can turn around in there and a UPS truck and cattle truck, I know that a plow truck, maybe you should invest a little bit more into training your plow truck drivers than worrying about. So just real quick, I've heard the logging truck thing a couple of times. One thing you guys are not considering is it's ground clearance of a plow off the ground compared to a logging truck. It is much different. It's much different to ground clearance here. So when you have that plow truck plus you have the wing hanging off. And you know, I actually went down the other day in the town garage to look at the mass of a plow truck because when I was doing the investigation, the walk around, I didn't have an appreciation of what those sizes those are. So it's not just a length you're dealing with. It's a length puts a clearance of that plow. So any sort of significant change in the grade, right, is gonna get that plow stuck and hung up. Then when you add the snow banks to that as well, the turning radius is decreased because of the plow has to clear those snow banks. Plus the wing that's hanging off there. So it's not just a length of a truck. It's more than willing to allow you to tear down the fence. The little fence there. It could be a solution. And make a turn around. So why is it in town buying snow cleaning equipment that won't work on the roads that you've had to maintain for the last 50 to 70 or 100 years? I've been told that part of the safety reason is because we keep spending money on fancy or bigger or quicker or whatever equipment. And now it's creating a safety concern on roads that have been safely maintained for years. Because you change that equipment and spend our tax money on something fancy or bigger and it doesn't work anymore. Because you didn't upgrade the roads to go along with the upgrade of the equipment. What are you gonna do to get fire trucks out to all of our houses if there's an issue? All they can do. I'm just wondering how it sounds like we need to be proactive and approach you to figure out solutions and the costs there and how much time do I need to give you to come up with the list of improvements and what they're gonna cost. So I can come talk to you and on his open channel communication we had and discuss it and see what we can do about it. When, because it's gotta happen within 30 to 60 days. So how should I, like you're not gonna be ready tomorrow but maybe next week, next Tuesday. I don't know, what's the process? Because that's really what I wanna know is what the process is to get it fixed not change the classification. So what your next step is is to look at what the concerns were when they did the site visit and from the driver feedback and then sit down with probably a double bill from highway. So you have the list already? What's this? What the concerns are and what exactly needs to be done because that all got hatched out of the site visitor when they were able to do that. We looked at it as far as, you know, you gotta remember you're dealing with a volunteer board here. We're not licensed engineers, we're not. But these decisions are being made that way. So I'll be honest, I haven't had time to type on my notes to send them out for you. And you went to check out a cloud truck so you can determine whether to turn around at the bottom of my row, you know. I mean, based on the driver and his feedback, I get it. But, you know. So that's your next step. So then you sit down and say, this is kind of what we gotta do. How do we do it? And that works best on site. How long, when are you gonna be ready to do that? Yeah, yeah. Do you have 17 landowners here that wanna make a date because you got a work schedule, right? Yeah. So it's gotta work around that and. So I'm just, you know. Me too. Do you have any paint for a little bit? Yeah. When are you gonna be ready with the, I mean, this magical list of things that need to be done so that it doesn't get clicked, you know. The classification has changed. Where is it? When is it gonna be ready? What are the costs associated with that? Can we take them on? You know, I have a tractor, I have a back go. I can put it on a culvert. I've done it for 22 years. So. I think he's saying what, if no one's asking for a specific date, but all, we all have questions. No, I'm saying like, okay, tonight we're gonna say on this date, what I'm saying is we all have a lot of questions that you guys might need to do more research or need to talk about. You can't give us the answers tonight. So I think what he's saying is if we all come into your office tomorrow, you're not gonna have any more answers. So you don't have another select board meeting until next month. And then that's gonna be 30 days. This won't be on the agenda for next month. We don't have to close this here. Right, so I guess what he's just asking is when can we expect to come in and be able to talk to you guys to try to negotiate or try to get answers to some of our questions if you guys don't meet for another month? So your conversation is not gonna be with us. It's gonna be with them. So you can make the appointment tomorrow for the end of the week. So, we'll have to all follow what you're doing at the highway department. So you will be meeting with the rest of the select board because these guys are the ones that are gonna vote correct on it. But if, when, so you will meet with these guys to discuss all of the things that we're bringing up so that you can answer the questions so you're gonna just come up with the answers without, you know, collaboration with the select board and then they make the decision. So, I mean, if we're gonna come to you, we wanna be able to have educated conversation. And I guess I'm asking, how will you be able to answer all of the questions? When will you be ready to answer a lot of the issues that have been brought up to you? Right, so I would suggest not waiting for a full list to be given to you. Scheduled at times to speak with me and then I could also bring in our highway superintendent or highway staff who are not opposed to going back out to looking at the property and seeing exactly, you know, what you're seeing. We could then bring measurements and see the length of the truck and the turnarounds. That we can do, absolutely. So that's a part of the process of gathering data and gathering information. I would not be able to meet with the board without warning a meeting. So the information will be shared with the board members individually. And when it comes down to an actual decision, much later on when the board decides it's ready to make a decision, that will be warned and it will be put on the agenda and never will be notified. But up until that point, by that point, the idea is we've had multiple conversations. We could have potentially have been to your property two, three, four different more times, taken measurements and seen exactly what the issues are and shared them with you again. So my next question, I guess, would be when we come in to see you with issues and trying to negotiate or figure it out, then you will take notes and then pass that on to these guys? What you're doing is you're working on that plan. We took some measurements and took them on there and proposed them. So we could come up with a list of improvements that would be made. The polling board has to say, yes, we're willing to do that or no, we're not willing to do that. Can I ask you a question? So I'm sorry, just real quick. Bill, I can't see you back here. He's hiding. Yeah, so Bill, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you told me 150 feet for a turnaround for those trucks. 150 feet, is that what you told me for the turnaround on that truck? No. That's right, I told you, yeah. That's a chill one, there, okay. Okay, I gotta talk. The road's only 150 feet long. No! So that's on the largest truck, it's 50 feet from the back of the truck to the front of the plow on the largest truck, and that's the number that came. Right, so you swing the turn radius on the plow into something like three times that. And that was the biggest plow. That was like specific to the road we were on. That's on the big truck, yeah. So that's sort of, that was a question I asked him over 150, because I didn't know which plows to do. But to be clear, the question was asked specifically at a location they were at. In relation to the truck that was used to plow that route. It doesn't mean that's the truck that's used on your route. What's, what the question was was on a site location, what's the distance you need for the truck that operates and plows this route? So each of the sites I visited, we recorded which truck plows that, right? Whether it's a pickup truck or the medium one or the big one, I don't know. Were there changes to those trucks in the last year, two years, three years? I can't answer that. A change to the truck may be a solution to. Well, when did we buy the six wheel trucks that we've been plowing with for 100 years? I mean, when did we get these huge trucks that suddenly we can't plow our own roads with? Who bought them, who made that decision? How much does it cost to keep them instead of a 10 of a six wheel truck? How much, we need bigger garages, we need bigger chains, they cost more. It's all about efficiency, you know. I mean, they've had to do what they've had to do. I've had to grow up and get bigger and bigger. It's all about efficiency to get around. So that's why they're as big as they are. Does it become efficient if you can't use it? Well, unfortunately, I mean, there's yards we get into with our trucks that they were used to the small single actual trucks that backed into their yards. And your roads have all been adapted over time to that smallness and having increased in size to adapt to the size of the smaller equipment. So if they're clenched, rewinding them. Yeah, who's clenched? Miss, no, this is your truck that only stays. He's stuck in that one, so that's different. He can't stay in the same size, it's just a connoisseur. That's not a fair statement. You know, it's just we're driven by that. Barred transport. Hey, folks, one conversation, please. I only have one last question about, can somebody tell me if these complaints from the snow plow drivers came last winter? Why are we just now, this winter, close, hearing about it, to where if this decision is made, it's going to be made in the middle of winter, to where all of a sudden we're going to be slapped with this huge expense. So why is it now that this subject has come up when it could have actually come up in the spring, to where all of these discussions could have happened, all of these decisions could have been made, and then we'd have been prepared, as property owners, to get mad earlier. We'd have had time, we'd have had time. Now it's like, rush, rush, rush. It's going to be changed. This is like a deliberate act of the department. How are you feeling about the busking press to take on another road tonight? Well, you know, that's why. That's why it shimings everything, isn't it? We're not going to have done anything. How many roads are you down to this street now? We've got three more. So any more comments on Jackson to keep it moving? No? Tilton Road? Jennifer Covey on Tilton Road. I think they have another one. Actually, do you guys have one more, Jackson? Welcome back. I live on Jackson Road. That guy right there passed the road. You ever had a problem turning around at the top? No. I didn't think so. Anybody's got a problem turning around at the top? There shouldn't be in a truck. In a truck. Now, I've got a question. There you go, Tilton. Well, sir, I was just saying, you was at my party. Something about driving a truck. The state gives you money towards the bottom of the tree. No. We don't get paid for the plowing by the state. That's a town responsibility. That's our taxes. Well, why are you worrying about the state? You've got to get back to the state myself. In compliance with the state, he's asking. What the? To get the money from the state. I think he's asking. What's this money he's got to help get from the state? The state of Vermont has, the legislature approves money every year for the state to pass down to towns. And you get so much per mile of class of road. So that comes to help with some of the major taxes and whatnot. But it doesn't, on class three roads, it doesn't cover everything. Why didn't they tell Montpel you to keep that money? And like this gentleman said, they overhauled our roads ourselves and plowed and maintained them. And get reduced taxes. It doesn't have anything to do with this discussion. I think you're mixing two things up. That's to help with culvert replacement and items like that. And it's not a lot for that. Tilton Road? So Jennifer told me of Tilton Road. I have a letter, which I won't read because a lot of it has been covered this evening. But the upshot is that like the other farms in this situation, we're not just talking about our homes. We're talking about business owners. And we purchased our farm where we did specifically because it fit the business plan that we were working at, that we were developing. It's essential having year-round access, stable year-round access to our farm is key to our business. And we're a new business. And so we don't have a lot of extra money to be able to put into investing in the road itself. And that was something that was factored into our business plan as well, was that this is close to the Amtrak Station, technically in the village district, not downtown district, but the village itself. And I also want to say that within about two weeks, we bought the farm. We moved from East Randolph and bought the farm in July. And within two weeks of owning the farm, the road crew came up. And they were just doing like a check through. They were great. They pushed back the foliage, not the foliage, but they pushed back the trees. They did a beautiful job with the road. And we had a great conversation about making sure that the turnaround was easy. The turnaround up there is huge because there's nothing else. We even took the barn down. The turnaround is gigantic at this point to make sure that our personal cars were parked separate for any storm events. We've always made that happen as well. And it seemed exceedingly proactive. And the town has done an amazing job of our road. We have school buses that come up. We host school groups. The Cacelas runs two trucks up to our hill. And they both can be in our yard at the same time because now they're on the same route for us. So not only do we need access, but we have had access. And the town has been fantastic with that. As I understand it, only third hand, since you guys had a conversation and I haven't been involved in yet. Our road is steep. We've always known that, of course. And there is a sharp turn where it's not that sharp, actually. But there is a turn where occasionally folks have slipped a little bit. But there's a real question as to whether that is a safety concern when it's banked there and it's essentially an emergency road runoff. It was flat right there on that corner. So it's a real question as to whether that is a safety concern or whether it is really a financial decision on the part of the town. And it would be really terrific if the town would actually own up that that is not a safety concern that would call it what it is. Do you think you would have bought your property at the end of that road if it wasn't a town road, knowing that that was a cost that you would have to incur? Given that the farm property that we purchased has exceedingly poor soils and a very heavy lift and was not able, it's not ever able to be part of a land trust judgment. We do have it in current use now for forestry. But it is not able to be in any of the other offset programs that help farmers. We bought it at full value. And we have to both work full time to keep them mortgaged. So we're building the business outside of that. So I guess the upshot is I don't think that we would have bought that. We actually bought a farm property instead of a town property because we wanted to grow our farm. So we would have bought a property in town if we'd not been able to make that work. And an essential part of making that work was having year round taxes. And I want to say the town has done an amazing job. It's very quick. They go up. They turn. They go down. We're good. We wave. They wave. It's a very positive experience. So thank you guys. So Chris Sargent. I'm also on Toulton Road. Same property. Same property. Imagine that. Same household. So I just want to point out that this is not an obligatory process. This is not that the select board is obligated to do anything that they're doing right now. I mean, I understand why you're doing it. I'm not saying I don't. And again, I appreciate you folks for volunteering to be on the select board. It's a thankless job. And I appreciate that. And the road crew does a great job. Robert has always been very easy to deal with. And I do my best to not ask much of the road crew because they have other responsibilities and other roads. That said, I know that the curve is a concern. I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong, but the turnaround was not a concern, right? I think the comment that I took note of was turn around was a concern when the vehicles were there. I think there were some challenges with the vehicles. I guess I would need to talk to Robert about that. I mean, I have a picture of two Castella trucks parked in an L shape at the top of that driveway. So there's plenty of room for the trucks to back around. That's never been a problem. Maybe they were there. And even with all our cars there. Because specifically, because Robert told us we needed to keep them out of the way, we were like, absolutely. It works pretty good. But I have, in fact, seen a truck or two off the road on our road. However, they're not always in the same place. The last time the truck went off the road, it was up at the top in the ditch. That's not because of the curve. On the left hand side, towards the house. On the front yard of my house. And that's an issue of, I don't know whether that's driver error or whether it just someone got, the plow got pulled, and it pulled them into the ditch. But they wound up in the ditch there, and it's not that steep at that part. So my point is, is that I can't argue with the trucks going off the road. But she's right. It's reasonably flat down at the bottom. So there's no life safety issues. Is it an inconvenience, or if the truck has to get pulled out of her hand again? Yes, obviously. I'm more than happy to talk to the town about whether we can come to some compromise that works out for everybody. But it's a little bit of a concern that there's no clear definition of what safety is, and that there's no standard by which we are making a decision. Because really, when you make a decision, you should have some sort of standards to make it by. That way you guys can easily defend your decision in case people question. Any more for Tilton Road? Clay White Road? No, sir. Go ahead. Well, I visited. I'm not on the end of that end road. Well, I visited commerce, and I visited TJ's, and I visited Tim's. My main interest there is the fire department, and that we have dry hydrants there, and they're the only water source in the area, especially the one at Tim's. There's our only water source up there. Sir, which one's Tim's? Number one, Clay White. Clay White, thank you. I'm addressing all of them on my own personal opinions. I just didn't know who Tim was on which road. Anyways, I don't agree to pause in any of these roads or reclassifying any of them personally. That's my personal opinion. I wouldn't reclassify any of them. I come to a solution, like these gentlemen who asked to improve the turnaround if necessary, to turn the truck around in a different direction, like from clockwise to counterclockwise or vice versa. I'd also suggest that on some of these turnarounds, these trucks are equipped with a positive manual traction system, can be controlled by the driver. He can lock up all six wheels, or he can lock them independently. On some of these turnarounds, I would suggest that those manual switches be turned off while it's being executed, because these manual switches will tend to drive the truck straight off the road. I know for a fact. As for these driveways and being able to turn around, I worked for the turnaround bar years ago. We had the biggest truck that the town had at that time, a four-wheel drive with a feed-away. I plowed every one of these driveways, and I never had any issue. I can turn around on any end of clay white. The other thing that I've come to realize here, you're talking about closing and reclassifying the best end of clay white. You're leaving the steepest, most dangerous part wide open. Hello. I mean. But in reclassifying them, I think you're taking away your safety issue. You're taking away their ambulance protection, and they're taking away their fire protection. That's what I'm thinking about. And I'm sure that there's been suggestions made. And if you work together, you can make a turnaround little work. The town dumps thousands of yards of dirt over the bank every year from cleaning ditches. If over two or three years you took some of this material to some of these locations, you'd have a better turnaround than you've ever dreamed of. You might not plus a gravel on top of it that way, but I don't know. If you talk about safety, you know, technically these roads that's so dangerous when it storms, they shouldn't even leave the garage. It's too dangerous. But if they don't, nobody else is going to get there either. You don't have to buy any different chains for the bigger trucks. They all take the same size tires. Anyway, those are some of my comments. Real estate values? Yeah, I think it would affect the real estate values. Without a doubt. Ted Fred Drive, I was working for the town when we built that drive. And why did you build it? I'm just curious the history of why that was built. Or do I not want to know? You don't want to know? No. Thank you. Because at that point in time, we wanted a little bit more of that property to widen the Chelsea road. It was agreed between the town manager that we would fix his driveway up and we'd maintain that. Was the town manager? Who was the town manager? No, I just mean, was it the people? I think we have not mentioned his name. What I'm asking was that the person on Ted Fred or the town manager just wanted to widen Chelsea so they wanted to work on Ted Fred's road. The town general wanted to widen Chelsea. The town manager agreed to maintain his driveway for the use of his property. OK. That's slippery. Slow. That's slippery. Where are you going, Maggie? Hey, folks, can we keep the conversation going on? We need to keep this. We have a whole select word agenda after this open. So any more comments on? Oh, Kevin would like to speak. Let Kevin speak first. Kevin Taylor, I'm Chief of East Randolph Fire Department. Brand new. I agree with lots of the things that people over on our side of the hill said tonight. I agree with a whole lot of them. The only one that I am prepared to speak on, of course, is the Clay White Hill Access. The angels maintain the only water on that hill. They keep the hydrogen open here around so we can get in there. And that is the only attack water we have. There are 16 residents that are serviced by that. That one water supply alone, admittedly, is not enough. We all have to have and we have plans for something like that. But just a few minutes makes a huge difference in the fire. Huge difference. So I know they're on the end of a road. There's a lot of things that you have to think about, but there's a lot of places up there that are benefited by that water supply, which they keep open. And it is we maintain it, we flush the hydrogen, we make sure it works fine, and all that stuff several times a year. But that one, I feel, is strongly, is very important to keep accessible for us. The steepest part of the hill is before that section. Absolutely. When it's not, the whole road is a mess in the winter time. But that few minutes could make a huge difference when it needed to. So I hate to have to be part of that if it went the wrong way. But have that be a fact or something like that. It would be just cared in my opinion. So that's it. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Yeah. Like a mad angel, huh? Well, I'm part owner and work on Clay White. I guess maybe we can talk a bit with this like in the site visit. Some of our, probably our biggest concern with the idea of reclassifying our lower road is not only is it our place where our parents live, but it's also our place of business. We have a dairy farm up there that relies heavily on truck traffic to do what we do. And you know, I mean, it would be a burden to have to maintain the road ourselves, sure. But the biggest trouble we see is like Greg was talking about, he has to get more efficient as a milk hauler. And thank God he's a good one and that our co-op is really good, but there are some other neighbors in neighboring farms in other towns that have been shut off from the milk supply because their road wasn't good enough for a milk truck. So it would really be, I mean, put it out of business if you declassified our road because eventually the milk haulers would be looking to do the same kind of thing we're doing here, pick off the easy fruit and get rid of some headaches. And we'd be the first ones to go. And then you'd have a road that would probably have a whole bunch of houses on it because we'd have to build a shitload of houses to pay off the mortgage. Yeah, we've talked with the road foreman. He seems to think that we can just rework our turnaround a little bit, keep the cars out of the way, and we should be good to go. So hopefully that's a workable solution for you. You guys have done an excellent job on our road in the last two years. I mean, rebuilt the whole bottom end. You've replaced the big culvert on our end. You've hardpacked the whole thing. I would like to work with you to fix the little turnaround on our end so it's not a parting gift. That's all I've got to say about it. Probably should. I'm Tim Agil. That farm has been in Janet's family for well over 200 years. And it would be a shame to have it go by the wayside because the town threw the road up. It's probably one of the earliest roads in the town since just down on the 14s where the first settlers were in Randolph. The other thing that concerns me, I'm chief of Randolph Center Fire Department. And it's certainly going to hurt fire protection on all these roads because they won't be as well maintained. And we won't be able to get down this road. I really think that should be taken into consideration also. I hate to see these services taken away from landowners that have paid their taxes off these years. We have town road 70. Brenda Squire, my family, I'm kind of here on behalf of my mom. She's 80 years old. She still lives there. It's the only place she's ever lived since she married my father. The town road has been in my family since 1940. There is one other abutting landowner I have since talked to them at the site visit. I had not been able to speak to them. I since have. He has agreed that people can use his upper drive as a turnaround, which it was done in the past. He doesn't have any issues about that. He has given his least verbal permission. I don't know anything has to be in writing or not. Our little section of the road is off Skeetow Road. There's a Y in the road. Our two homes are the only two on that little section. I mean, it's not very long. They've always plowed it partway up and then kind of backed around up there and then originally came down. Lately, it's been more spotty. They felt they had to back out, I guess. I was not told specifically what the safety issue was with that little stretch. The other part of the road is always maintained, you know, with the big truck and this and that. Sometimes we get the big truck. Sometimes we get a small truck. So I don't know how, you know, why that's necessarily being done if that's the driver issue or if that's what. So we were not exactly told what the safety issue was, but I think we have a solution where if they can do the turnaround at the top, they should be able to drive back down out instead of feeling they have to back out. And I, you know, I think we can burp something out. I don't know if there's anything more that you guys can tell me. I was at the site visit. We had this discussion. And the only additional information I have was that I would, because of my mom's age, I would like her to have access to fire and ambulance and things like that, you know. And if they can maintain, we are a class three road presently, I think we should have the same type of maintenance as the main part of the road has. We just have to be a little wide off that road. So if there's any safety issues that, and we have not been told what it was, we, I think we can deal with that. And I'd like to hope that we could. So the two notes that I took there, one was the turnaround, the second was that Culvert, very narrow at the bottom. Well, we have always been told that because it was a class three road, the town should be maintaining that Culvert. Yeah, I'm just communicating what we know. And we have been verbally big told by different people and drivers. And just in general conversation that it would be done, just never happened. I think it just, the Culvert itself is fine. It just needs to be maybe reset. And even as earlier this year, they said they were gonna do it, but nobody has done it or approached us to talk to us further about. So I mean, I think it's solutions that can be fixed. Because people, I mean, they've always plowed straight back through from the other road. They don't do that now. So I mean, I don't know how much of that is individual drivers making that decision versus what should be done. And I mean, I think there's solutions that can happen there. So when you say plowed back through the other road, they came from the ski tow side and plowed straight up, is that what you mean? Well, they used to go up over the hill the other way and they had to turn around, they come back down the hill and come straight up through our little section, back around and come out. Now they just come back down the other way and go poof, way back up. And sometimes they don't, that's why sometimes they do it with a big truck. Sometimes the small truck comes. There's been no consistency in how it's been plowed. And I'll be honest, there's a couple of times I've had to call and say, well, hasn't anybody been here? I'm not saying that's happened often, but that is something that we have had to do on occasion. But I mean, we'd like to be able to work with people and find a solution. And my main concern, like I said is, we make sure that it is a safe situation for I'm sure there's a lot of other elderly people on some of these roads and that I take to see them lose their services and things like that. That is the end of the list. Braylee's right about to mention, I knew we were on the original list. We were on the original list. This is the list we had the hearing on. Thanks. But I was here in part because Braylee was on the original list and we're a road served by, we're on a road that served off of Braylee Road, so we're not on one house road. We were a little concerned that one house road was the title given because it made us wonder what was going on. So I first want to say I've actually been really happy. You've helped me. I've sent two thank you letters to the town because the services we've gotten on our road, which is not easy, Braylee Cover Bridge and Steep Down to the Bridge has been great and so thank you. And thank you for what you've done. The question I have though is, if a road is a town road and people live on it, is there an obligation for the town to make provision to maintain it in a safe and navigable state? And if it fails to do so, should that be the fault of the landowner? Can they get anybody to say and it's falling down their skull in this? I'm not sure where that's coming from. The reason I bring up the question is because if the roads are reclassified to class four, the burden of maintenance falls on the landowners and the realtors do seem to agree that you're going to see a 10 to 20% effect on those properties on the grand list. So I did a rough calculation that suggested that 17 times approximately $6,000 to $8,000 per property take 10% starts to impact our towns. And I know you've said over and over again, it's about safety, but that caused me to come back to safety because I thought, well, all right, our road crews, who again I adore have access to the best safety equipment that we can get them and we do not. And our ambulance trucks are not professional road clearers. They're ambulance drivers and our fire crews are not professional road killers. Although, thank God you have been. And you have some pretty telling things to say. And I've driven the rigs that Greg is talking about. I know what happened. Right. The only thing I didn't remember to tell you was they asked if anybody had ever pulled any trucks out on their road. Well, I don't have a dead-end road, but I pulled them town trucks back out into the road. Yeah, yeah. And it's a straight road. They are not supposed to go up. Right. And that led me to the last point, which is, so your safety and the safety of your crews and your safety and the safety of your crews is important because if one of your trucks goes off the road because you're trying to reach me. That is a huge problem. Because now you can't get to the next problem. Now I can't get to you, the road is blocked, and it makes a situation that much worse. I'm not really concerned. My concern is this. What I don't see is a process that gave sufficient consideration to the fall-on effects of declassification. And I would like, as a citizen of the town, to see the sort of cascading safety issues looked at. And to also see whether there is a pattern of trucks going off the road that's mapped to drivers, so maybe a driver needs more training, to a particular style of road maintenance. Are we doing the most best and most efficient job of maintaining our roads so that we could prevent these problems rather than causing a giant hearing where we're all emotional and cost the town its goodwill. So I appreciate, again, our road crews, because you guys have a really tough job. And all of you that go to the extra mile, I know on our roads, sometimes you have to go back and get a six wheel whip chain done, and drive in a tent because it doesn't go through the bridge. But we're just on one of the few historic cover bridges, but they're part of our heritage. And they end up just having to be done. That's why our road came off the list in part. So I guess I'd like to see if, when the reports come out, make a special request for the select board and to the town manager to review the cascade effects of, OK, so we want the road crews to be safe legitimately. That's the legitimate thing. But we also want the fire crews to be safe and their equipment to be safe, and the ambulance drivers to be safe, and their community to be safe, and us as citizens to be safe. And I don't feel like I really, I didn't get the feeling that this process really looked at that thoroughly. And I'm just making a request to cover it. I don't even want to be telling it. Great. You need to identify all the things we need to fix. I feel like it's a full time volunteer job. Yeah. So you have a town manager who can do that. You have a town manager who can do that. That's not what we were talking about, though. Thank you. So any more input on the roads themselves tonight? So from here, it's making connection with Adolfo to look at options, what, if a plan can be made, to then be presented with the other's information to the select board to make a decision. Adolfo's in tomorrow. Even if it's a snowy day he's in, because he won't die. Every day. I can share my telephone number with everyone who's interested in. Before you leave, I'm also more than willing to go upstairs and hand business cards out. But if you have a pencil or a pen, I can share my number with you now. Those of you that already have it, you already have it. If you don't, the number is 728-5333, extension 20. Is there going to be a list of names of people that were at this meeting? Yeah, it'll be in the board minutes. So if you wanted to contact other people. Make sure you sign in at the table. Then there will be. Excuse me. I'm still a little unblocked. When you said decision, is that like that decision, or is it a decision about how things are going to be fixed? It'll be all, what we'll do is we'll take each road one by one, and it'll be a decision of if it stays class three, this is what needs to happen to do it. So this is going to be whether it's class three or class four, that's more of a decision. In some cases, actually some of the people when we went, they said, please throw it up. We'd love to have you throw it up and not have it be part of the town roads anymore. So that's the other end of the spectrum of what we've got. So what the decision will be, if it's going to stay class three, this is what needs to happen. And according to how the plans come together, or if it goes to class four, or in some cases, it may be part of the road stays class three, part of it goes class four, or part of it's thrown up, part of it's class three, that's the decision being permit. The question was raised, are you going to leave this hearing open and continue it at a later date, or are you closing it tonight? We're closing it tonight. OK. Jenny, can I ask a question? Sure. If the roads get thrown up midwinter, is the town in any position to defer stopping the town has the choice to say, OK, we'll continue to apply your road through this winter, and then after that, we're not going to do it. It's kind of an undue burden to put on taxpayers to suddenly be like, sorry, we stopped. Because it is the town, it was the time things were warned and everything, the timing is not exceptional. And that's on the town. I know that it started with Mel, but the bottom line is that if it's been talked about in the spring. That's part of the decision that can be made when we get there. Great. Will we be officially notified when we're going to vote on these? Yep. I'll call you, Tim. Is the vote going to be a public hearing? It's official. Yeah. If you mailed it to all landowners on the road, your brother is not going to know if it's going to. If he's below where we're considering, he wouldn't have. He's right at the point. He isn't. He should go. But he's right at that line. So it was. Yeah, whether he's on the lower. OK. He's in a little bit of that. He deserves a right to come in and not help. In other words, it's often other than the class. I don't think you're here to solve the problem. Unfortunately, tonight, said there's a little evidence that's going to be a public hearing. But it's not going to be a public hearing. Yeah. Folks, we're still doing business. And our media is still. In other words, the law is here to say that there is one secret, but there is no secret. Hey, folks, we can keep continuing business. Can you take your conversation upstairs? No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Yeah. Well Oh. Well. No. No. No. Yes. Has it gotten good yet? Yes. I'll follow him then. They know what they're doing. The discussion of whether the town took place to plan it or it becomes part of what we'll look at in the, at that meeting. But it's something that will be So we're going to move into the regular select board agenda now, and first on the list is public comment, which is a chance to briefly bring a topic up to try to get the select board to put it on a future agenda. It's not to hash the whole thing out just for fair warning. I'm here for the library board of trustees. I just want to clarify some issues from your last meeting. I saw the tape and I read your minutes. We all did. And so there's some things that need to be corrected for the record. First of all, the library trustees have always been willing to put money into it. There's no issue there from us. In fact, we have a request and a gift which will more than cover the cost of the lift itself. But in addition to that, you have some ADA issues with the bathroom. The library trustees already agreed to pay all of that. They're not asking the town for any money at all. We have an annual fundraiser. It's a big one. We've got letters coming out shortly. Every trustee writes personal notes and notes. It's a big deal. The lift, by the way, must be replaced. We cannot operate a public building, ADA accessible, without it. It is not repairable. It's 10 years past used by date. Parts are no longer available. We heard that part. So we absolutely must replace it. So we're going to do it. It is, somebody has mistaken, it is not used a couple of times a year. Even if it were, it would have to be replaced. But it's used a couple of times a day. And I was there yesterday when it was being used. It is horrendously loud. And it sounds like it's not the latest. It has to be there. What did I forget? I think you're okay. The $500 was the beginning of an accessibility grant process that you had brought to us, and also that we were willing to investigate. I think that when you go into things like that, it's a bit of a dance. You decide, you do the beginning part, the $500 match is about you figure out what the issues are, and then you come back and say, okay, the trustee said money for this, and the town has money for this. Who's going to pay for how much? And we didn't even got into that place yet because we haven't even applied for the grant. So that's a piece. The philosophical part for me is that the library is a public building. And so people, patrons of the library, who have movement challenges, deserve to be able to use the library, the facilities of the library with independence and with dignity. Not being able to use the bathroom and not being able as an adult to get up to where the adult part of the collection is, does not meet my definition of independence and dignity. We have to be able to, and in fact the trustee is committed to repairing the library whether or not we went for the accessibility grant. So I'm confused now. So I heard that it can't be repaired, then I'm hearing now that it's replaced. To replace, I'm sorry. And do we have something from a lift company in Elevator Company that says this can't be replaced? Yes, sir. We have the parks are no longer available. It's been repaired a number of times and the parks are no longer available. It's 10 years past. Well, the information came last time, there was no answer to that. There was no, right? Yes. So I think, I mean, per the action, or per the meeting minutes, it was asked that, you know, what is the cost for, you know, can it be replaced? Is anybody looking, power place repaired? Is anybody looking to that? So that was unknown information, right? In fact, yeah. And in fact, it's, yeah, it just isn't, it just cannot be repaired anymore. You do need a place. So the, the library trustees are have the money to replace the lift. Okay. You told me I could come back here. Yeah, I love that. Going back again. Let me send you on some other avenues. Yeah, the other piece that was mentioned, you know, when you talk about big renovations on public buildings, you do often talk about, the town owns the library, you know, and so we act, we understand that this is an odd arrangement in terms to have a board of trustees that's in charge of spending money and maintaining a facility of what is essentially a department of the town. We get that, you know, that, that it makes sense. I know there's a huge disconnect every time we sit down to talk about the changes because our budgeting and our spending is done completely differently. But when you mentioned capital, I think it was you that mentioned, couldn't we do a capital campaign that would have to be done in concert with the town because it is a town facility. It's, it's not a thing that the trustees could just decide that we were going to do all by ourselves. There would have to be some kind of participation on the part of the governance of the town. So, so we do, because we manage our investments carefully, our investment money that we get through fundraising and through requests really carefully, the money to do the necessary repairs is there. If we decide to do the accessibility grant, which is what triggered the bathroom conversation, then I think, you know, based on the information that we get when we come back to you and say, okay, how do you want to do this? You know, what's, what's a reasonable thing, reasonable conversation to have about how we fill this application out? I think that was, those were the, those, that was the update that we wanted to make. You know, it's interesting, it was interesting to sit here and to listen to the concerns of the folks that live outside the village. And it makes me remember, as a taxpayer and a member of, you know, the Randolph community, that we always do better when we go back to people and say, I think you've got a problem. How can we work this out together? You know, that's what I heard from all those landowners was, was the, before you make this decision, come back and talk to us about how we can sort this out. On my land, on my property, in my space, to keep my family and my investment in this community safe. Thank you. So that was, thank you folks. Thank you. Thank you. Any other public comment? Approval of the agenda? Madam Chair, if I may ask the board to consider a slight change to the agenda. Very slight. Is it removing some stuff? No. Actually, yeah. Adding one item which is the consideration of an EV, electric vehicle charging station grant. We could add it either into the grant section if the board chooses or into the other business. This is old business, isn't it? We had this last month. We did. They were just coming back with a location. The trial. Would you defer old business? All right. Approval of the agenda? May I ask you a question? Is the meeting open-ended? I mean, do you go through the whole agenda when the rally gets? Oh, yeah. Not necessarily, but yes. Because I need to get home for bedtime. So do we. And, yeah, no, I mean, remember, let her see it or under new business. I'm just curious if there's any kind of sense of time frame or these top ones move quick. You should be pretty quick. Approval of the agenda? Thank you, motion. Motion and a second. All those in favor? I opposed. Stained. Consent calendar and a motion to approve those. All those in favor? I opposed. Motion carries. Appointments to the Planning Commission. We have two that have expressed interest on the Planning Commission. Joel Tilburg and Sonny. Sonny's here. He's been involved. Quite a bit. Re-wrote the introduction to the Tom Plan. Came in with some nice photos. We have one seat open. Right. In this position expires March of next year. So we get you for more in a year, whoever gets on. Got a preference? I like the Sonny team. And that he's been involved? He's been involved, yeah. I mean, we've met a couple of times, Sonny, right? We've talked for a bit, so definitely for my year. Is that a motion? That's a motion. I'll second. Motion and a second. All those in favor? I opposed. Stained. Carries. Stagecoach. Had a letter that was sent. Stagecoach is going to be unique. Put your letter somewhere here, Jim. In an interesting position, as you know, we had split their funding. So half of it was in the budget. Half of it was under special appropriations. Got some not so positive feedback that folks felt we were hiding money in the budget. So we went with the new policies, which was one place or the other, not both. If you want to risk it and go in both, then the board could not pay the money that's actually in the budget. So the recommendation that went to Stagecoach was to put the full 15,000 in one location or the other. They're fine with it. Going in special appropriations, what they're asking is that they not have to go out and get all the signatures because it's a changed amount since the money's in the budget now and we're the ones asking that the change be made. Anybody have a problem leaving the signatures for that? No. I'm going to second that motion. That we accept the change from the 7,500 to the 15,000 in the special appropriations. That goes into special appropriations without signatures being required. I thought when we wrote the policy that it was only a change in the special appropriations and not necessarily so that way if they wanted to change either the 7,500 or the 7,500, then they could lose one or the other. If they want the 15,000, if they leave it in both places, the board can choose not to pay out the money that's in the budget. They want the money paid out so they want to move all into special appropriations, but they don't want to have to get the signatures required to up the amount. So they're asking for a waiver of that. All right. I thought we left an open end in there about a change and not necessarily being there in general. Motion to the second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried. Thanks for driving all the way over here for our entertainment. Thanks. I'd like to see town government action. And I'll never run for select one. $500 a year doesn't encourage you. It is all about money making, isn't it? Yeah, something like that. Say nothing about the time. Next. Okay. I've never been to one of these meetings before. This has been very informative in a lot of ways. And you have a huge agenda still and there are other people in the room waiting. So I don't know how much time to expect or what to take. But I guess this is possibly then the beginning of a conversation. There's been a really interesting pattern, though, that I noticed in the public hearing about this, that I feel connects to the concerns that my husband and I are bringing to the select board about a gap of confidence between the town, the taxpayers of town, and the town, and how they feel about the town. The consideration of homeowners' investments and the fact that they live the quality of life and living safely. And the notion of the community relationship that came up, I feel, is definitely speaks to this, speaks to our concerns and the question of the lack of information being and communication being clear between a homeowner, taxpayer, and the town. I had mentioned and sent along the question of the water bill. And I think that's something I would come back and add that to a public comment section. But just as an illustration of all of these things, I had a water bill for the past five years. I had a bill that was billed in October with a billing due date of the 13th of November. And so my plan was to drop this off next week when that's a good time for me. And I had a billing date as of the 6th, saying that the due date was the 5th of November for this single. So that's my question about sort of clarity of information. I think some kind of serious gaps in the water billing. So, but the bigger concern is, and that's just an illustration of these kind of like just things not connecting, our big concern is with the Elm Street project, which we're all happy that that paving now is done and the sidewalks are wonderful and the road is much improved and that has been fantastic. And of course it was frustrating during the construction and the driving and that is not what this is about. That project resulted in direct impact on our home and mostly on the sewer system and the septic sewer condition in our house. This is a project that our house actually has never been on the sewer system that we've been paying for. The town was supposed to be maintaining a septic system that the town installed decades ago and apparently ceased maintaining somewhere around maybe 1985 to the point where the town had forgotten that this thing was even there. So that's just a little bit of history that we learned. So with the sewer project, and this was on the deed, that the town would be maintaining the sewer, the septic system until such time as the town could be, the house could be connected to a sewer system. So here, new sewer system, that seemed like that was the sensible thing to do. Hook up the house to the sewer system. Days after that was executed and completed, our house began to break. It's been stinking for a year and a half, well no, more than that, roughly a year and a half, all through last winter, through this past summer and now still, like virtually daily, especially now in the winter system. It emerged concurrent with this hook up of the sewer system. Our question was, this seems to be a problem with the hook up. We've been told, no it's not. It's not because of that thing that the town did at the same time as the stink began. We were told that we've taken measurements and there's no dangerous gases. Hooray, we're not all dead, but the house reeks. It smells like cooked cabbage and like old cooked cabbage almost daily. It's not a living condition that I would call an acceptable outcome of this project. We feel like we've been dismissed, like we're making this up, that it's not really a problem and we should, in the words we received, we should just all get past this. And to be told that when the system was not maintained while we were paying for a service that was not provided and I don't know how many homeowners even before, to be told that now it's just our problem and the town has, the town's kind of done and we need to figure it out and the town is going to stop investigating what's the potential cause of this unacceptable change to our living condition is unacceptable. And the communications about it have directed or have been sort of deflected to talking about this other thing in the house, which has been there since forever, a floor drain and we keep getting statements about the floor drain and the town had suggested that the floor drain was a possible source of the smell and that we could try blocking it permanently. We consider the floor drain a really helpful thing to have in the basement in case there's some kind of flooding and we have actually used that because during this project the hot water heater started to leak and we needed to get that water in there. So we kept it as a useful thing in our basement where we didn't really think it wasn't a convincing solution but that was the source of the smell so we didn't change it. So now all of our communication about this question of the smell, is this making sense? Are you following me? Okay. This question of the smell has been deflected to what are you, homeowner, going to do about the floor drain and it's even being called now any illegal floor drain which is also very interesting considering the town was illegally operating an unmaintained septic system for decades. Side note. And as opposed to saying again this question of how can we work together to actually investigate and determine what is the cause of this? So the lack of recognition of a potential responsibility the kind of cessation of cooperating and trying to find the solution to the problem and then the tenor, the tone of the communications we've been getting from the water department have been feeling like intimidation where we're just supposed to kind of shut up and stop asking inconvenient questions. That I think kind of sums it up. I would appreciate it if my feedback that I think I emailed to you about the water billing also be considered. I'll bring that up for public comment if that's necessary. But this concern that we as taxpayers are being kind of shunted off with our problem being called for our senses that the problem is not being regarded as a real problem. And then it's just on us. So I have a dumb question. Have you tried temporary plugging the drain seats in the small one way? Yes. We've put one of those valve drains in the floor drain. That's been there all winter. And the suggestion was that the floor drain was dry and so we've been keeping it moist with vinegar being used. So with that whole plugged, that drain plug you still have in the smell? Yes. And so one thing we had learned, that we learned about in all this process was that a huge trap is a good solution. And then we have also now learned that a trap is not necessary or not part of the Randolph town code, though it apparently seems to be the code in other municipalities, for example, Barrie. And so even though a trap might not be required, we were kind of wondering, even if it's not required, is it just kind of the right thing to do to potentially correct this? A trap in the drain? Yeah, a trap. So there's the sewer outgo from the house to the outgoing pipe to the sewer system. Hold on. If you plugged the drain and sealed it and you still had the smell. Two different things. I think she's talking about the hookup to the sewer system. To the sewer system. Oh, on your primary line. Right. But aren't there traps on it? Are there traps in all your sinks and everything? Yes, there are traps everywhere in the house. The smell is coming from the basement. It's not from inside the house. All of the traps and all the sinks are used daily. None of those are dry. We checked everything. We checked the ducts. We checked the gas here. We checked for gas leaks. And so we're of course trying to solve this problem, but when we bring it up to the town, as we were told, we received a letter that said, the town is kind. We've done what we're going to do, and if you want to look into it further, please let us know. And so as we have now started looking into it further, we kind of let a season of summer go by to see if anything just kind of like settled and kind of worked its way out. But now with colder weather and the heating season, it's as bad as it ever was. So this kind of our wait and see solution didn't work. So now we're looking into this. Well, maybe we kind of need to assess this outgoing, the pipe that goes into the sewer system. And when we brought this up, then we got this whole kind of return of, well, what did you do about your illegal floor drain? And now you need to fix it, and you have to do it by tomorrow, which we were told last week. So when did, how long was the floor drain plugged for? All the last winter. Or virtually all of last winter. I don't remember exactly when we bought it, but it's been a solution we've been trying to, we've been trying for months. So did the environmental compliance associates come there? The company that is being talked about. ECI? Air quality. No, that's the contractor. Oh, right. Sorry. I just had forgotten the business name. He came out. Yeah. Now I remember because that was it. That was in December. Because I was speaking to Christmas. November 14th. What's that? In November, in November, November they, Oh, okay. The timelines. The town engaged environmental compliance associates. Okay. That might be a different event that I don't recall. Was it an air quality specialist? That's a good question. The town never had that person come out. That's to my knowledge. Yeah. That portion, the groups that went out to test for the gases typical of a sewer, the methane gas was a town. We went out to inspect. And then also, I remember. We went out to have dimmicks go out and also inspect the gas. And the results were the same. I don't think they expected to inspect the gas. Okay. They looked into the drains. Okay. So both, the result of both of those, that says they left a gas meter in the basement to monitor the gas readings. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you meant gas like propane. No, no, no. The odor. The odor gas. So that the result, those two results, then the conversation turned into, I believe the request was for additional testing. And that's when this company was approached and they said, well, we would perform pretty much the same tasks, except we would, our cost would be $600 to $1400. To essentially perform the same tasks. Using the same meters. But so though, whatever those meters measure for, does not alter the, I mean, whatever they were testing for, there is something that makes our house read. It did not, it did not, we never had any experience with this. Ironically, when there was a completely illegal and decrepit and dysfunctional, well, you would think it would be dysfunctional system. It would be actually out in the yard, but something about the sand, the quality of the earth there, it just absorbed and drained everything away. We never had a single problem with septic functioning, with any kind of odor, until after days after the sewer hookup was put in by ECI under the sounds supervision. It just seems like a really logical place to start for assessing this problem. It sounds like some of that assessment has taken place. Right? They've camera, well, they said, okay, you don't have dangerous gases. So that's the, we're not all dead and our house hasn't exploded. Well, they also tested the non-dangers. I mean, the methane hydrogen sulfate, hydrogen sulfate is dangerous. And they camera do. They actually didn't camera, the sewer, the sewer out go was never camera. All the sewer and vent lines. No. No, I don't think that's accurate because no one could get a camera through that sewer line. Now we could actually can, because now we've had a plumber open it up and it's a straight line. There's a 90 degree angle. I was there when ECI tried to do it because they open the top of the PVC pipe and it goes straight down a 90 degree angle out through the sleeve. And they couldn't get the camera past that. Were you there when Dimmick's when River came in camera? I think my husband may have been. So did they get it through? No, nobody's investigated that said that sewer out go. Dimmick looks through the house. Dimmick ran the investigation through the house system. Like in the internal house. And your husband reached out to him and said he found the source of the smell. What was that? Can you tell me what you're reading there? Yeah, it's a chronology that came from Water Waste Water. It says on April 3rd that your husband called the DELFO to complain about the odor claiming he found the source. So DELFO asked Chris from Water Waste Water to take a look. What was it that he found that was the source? This is the idea about the floor drain. Which then, you know... No, because he says then he went there went in the basement they found the floor drain. So he's saying your husband identified that he found the source of the smell. Well again, we have been theorizing. We've been trying to figure it out. So I have to say frankly, I don't remember what this might have been at what stage of the investigation. I mean what stage of the theories that we assumed that he didn't actually find the source of the smell? No, I'm sure what it means is we had an idea at that point. But we still have the smell. Are there any other drains or anything that might have gone into the old septic that maybe got cut? Well this is kind of there's part of a question of there was this mystery pipe that ECI had unearthed which is across if our house is here and here's Elm Street here's our driveway the old manhole was over here by the old manhole when ECI was excavating found a mystery a mystery pipe and spent a couple of hours I was home so it must have been in the summer that first summer and they had this pipe and it was dry and I was like well this looks like it's the drain of something used to drain here but it was completely dry so it had not been used nothing had come through it in years we ran the dyes and everything and so nothing would come out of this drain and this mystery pipe and what's that? It's a baby The acoustics are great over there at the time ECI said well we're just going to fill this in and we can kind of address it later if we need to and that's made me wonder oh okay well was that actually the floor drain nobody knows what that was that mystery pipe they ran their camera up it and it ended at the place where we later discovered the ancient septic tank that was completely corroded was so I don't know what the role of that mysterious pipe that ECI found and filled in that has potential not an engineer but I can only imagine looking at the evidence it's a question that lingers what was that pipe? was that part of this process our impressions of ECI's work especially the work that they did on our property they worked pretty fast and in haste to get those things done they did when they were digging when they were excavating the septic system they tore out a power line to the lights we had to call and call and to get that fixed we weren't there to witness they hook up on the sewer we didn't see it happen and then a few days later this problem arose after that very job was done and so whether it's some other drain that is still connected to that process of hooking up the house to the sewer system we've been racking our brains looking for solutions we've checked the ducts we've checked everything that can smell we've looked at it all and the thing that hasn't been looked at seems like the most obvious thing to check except that's the one you sealed no the floor drain? the thing that hasn't been looked at is that pipe that got hooked up to the sewer system that has not been investigated I think you're going to have to sit down with Chris and her and look at all this because I'm getting confused as you're combining pipes and another pipe went in and that couldn't be camera and now this new one's in and it can be camera you're saying the pipe that had something septic was never going to be camera because it had a because of the 93 angle that's different now which one did you say changed? the change was the pipe is the same but I need to illustrate this is our that we're going to solve it tonight that's what I was suggesting I would be happy to continue this sit down and look at it but my concern about that is our communication hasn't been great about it and I would really like that to be more positive and more cooperative and generally more clear and positive we're not being told to just get over it but we feel we've been badly treated that's not good so maybe you could sit with Chris and have that conversation and see I think there's a few pieces there what is the floor drain really going to and I realize it's difficult to understand about having never seen that this other mystery pipe and it may be that ECI needs to come back and fix the issue because our contractors if it's something they did then they're responsible in their framework too but not seeing it in any another approach well I don't know that it's going to do us any good because we've got a new hookup with an old septic but nobody knows how I bet there's no that has built for that I think it was an old dry well what was an old dry well the septic system no they dug up a tank but there's a tank and then it goes to something else if the tank was the end of the line and it just leached to the ground then that's considered a dry well basically it leaches up in the ground next time you flush the toilet it leaches into the ground and waits to be filled again I don't know if it then went to something else the pipe from the house the mystery pipe is that what you're talking about? not yet just talking about the system in general whether it was a field or a dry well I see I don't know the difference between those two things but in essence you plugged your brain and it didn't change your smell situation have you ever looked at the pipe that connects to the sewer? yes the pipe that connects to the sewer is new it's a mystery pipe that we have a question about too what you're saying is that for whatever reason because there was a funny angle and nobody was ever able to camera the pipe that connects to the sewer and so the obvious potential source of the smell hasn't really been able to be checked yet and so your recommendation seems to make sense which is go look at it and see I share the frustration I've been there myself and when it's fixed your life is better so and the thing about the pipe not being negotiable by the camera before is now accessible we have had a plumber open up the old cast iron pipe so it's a straight line now the camera doesn't have to go around that turn that it couldn't do before and it would at least maybe answer some questions yes or no okay you can get with Chris and get a time so what I'll do now is I will reach out to you reach out to your husband schedule a time for us to get together and talk and go through the process step by step on what you feel has been inspected or has not what we can and cannot inspect and then we'll go through that process together okay and we've now applied because we found out we could do this about the floor drain we've put in for a variance about having to seal that and that's kind of the tangential but connected issue and that because that's supposed to be done by tomorrow and one we received that order a week ago and I didn't seem like a reasonable time frame and we disagree with why it was even being brought up in the first place so floor drains are considered illicit discharges and are against state rule and if the local can give a waiver for that or a variance right but we were told only by email of last week yeah I'm not questioning the timing no that was well didn't they, the timeline here says that back the week after Memorial Day they brought you a bag of hydraulic cement and that was for that was with the concept of that the floor drain with the source of smell and we disagree with that assessment right I'm confused about how the floor drain is connected to the septic to the sewer if you just had a new connection as far as we know why would ECI have connected your floor drain to a brand new they would have been wired together and then gone to her septic system they may have tied it on the tween wire so they used to go to the same septic they just connected and now it goes there also I don't think they connected the floor drain to anything that's what we're saying we're just saying that they probably not knowing the system connected to your system between the why that connected the floor drain and your septic and your septic system they would have connected somewhere between there and not touch the pipes going into the house now I would need a diagram to kind of follow that the potential status the sewer pipe and the floor drain pipe wide and then went wide into the old tank and they may have connected between the why and the tank to the septic so it is still going into the town septic I would submit that if the town has been responsible for maintaining their connection for all these years when it was like this for such a long time now with all this change it seems like it would be our responsibility to go back in and dig that up and disconnect that why and give them some sort of a legal way of getting rid of that water from that I'm sorry Larry did you say would I think it would that would be my personal take would be that it would make sense for the town to go in and fix that so you have a working drain that does not drain into the town sewer system they can't do that because there's nowhere else for it to drain you can't drain into you can't drain an illicit discharge which a floor drain is to anywhere you're not supposed to have one so the closing of the floor drain into somebody's field or over the bank essentially to the river so if they have an oil leak or something it's going to the river and so that's why four drains are no longer loud excuse me my new construction but I just want to be clear the whole question of the floor drain I feel has become a distraction from the question of the smell yes okay if the floor drain needs taken care of let's also do that in a reasonable and you know proper way but then there is still the question of the bridge in our house yeah yeah I agree this was a suicide issue but it sounds like floor drains are just not reasonable period on any level and so you probably don't have much of a choice in terms of that I'm not arguing but you were talking about asking about getting a variance through the it needs to be done by tomorrow that's our concern asking for more time thank you it sounds like the solution to that was pretty easy though you just have to plug it with a bit of concrete I guess so it just seems do all of those floor drains need to plug them well this is my other question and nobody would have ever known about it so it was a stormwater evaluation and so part of that is the list of discharges so what they would do is they would smoke test it and figure out where the smoke came out and if it came out in your house you have to block it discharge to the river and then they chest it at the next connection manhole and figure out which way it's coming and eventually they end up, most of the time they end up in garages there's not a lot of houses that actually connect so the test hasn't actually been conducted though that's a different one that he's talking about this is an entire system-wide outfall test which would be to the river in your area probably here is broke so you'll connect and look at it thank you everybody else for waiting even a little longer next up is green lantern solar and net metering well and from green lantern here to share some updates on decision that the board had made over a year ago now yeah, we've been in the process for years so quick update that's fine we'll be quick with time as well it's early yet thank you so as a quick update the project has been permitted we have our suggestion of public good which means that we will be constructing basically first quarter of next year based on green lantern's construction schedule being that it was permitted for net metering that means that we have allocable net meter credits that we can place and during our first presentation we had said that we would be talking to the town of Randolph so that you could take place in the group net metered system the town is currently net metering two of its larger meters and if you flip right to the back of this presentation we did an energy study of all of your meters basically have about 31 meters that you're in control of the top two meters are at the top which is your sewage plant well these are all done for our purposes to get to the bottom line of how many credits we could allocate what that savings would be and how that metering works so in a real quick format what I'll do is just give the presentation and stop and if I'm going too quickly or you need to ask any questions the project is a ground mount ballasted system on the landfill I think Mr. Ford you're near to the board so this will be fairly new to you so if you have any questions particularly just drop me and I'll answer them it's going to occupy approximately one acre of the capped portion of landfill with about 600 panels running east to west this was permitted under version 2.0 of the net metering rules which gives us the highest incentive rate the panels are going to produce renewable energy and electricity that will be fed back into the grid to GMP Green Mountain Power cost-effective net meter credits are also going to be produced which the town can be a primary beneficiary of and then thirdly the renewable energy credits which you may have heard called REX are going to be retired to Green Mountain Power the whole project will be a renewable energy project and the town can say as such which was unlike a lot of the version 1.0 net metering projects that were installed around the state the next part what are the actual benefits save the town money on your electric bill cumulative savings could potentially be about $44,000 in year 20 another benefit is adding to local and national renewable energy goals I'm sorry $44,000 that's one year that's 20 years that's 20 years you don't actually have a very large load if you want to get right to how much the town spends and what you have that's only $2,000 a year that's less than what I make that's about the solar panels on my barn which is a tiny fraction of the size you're two largest meters are already being net metered so we can't re-include those so all in all the town has about $133,000 credit hours that could be applied to the net metering system so dollar for dollar when you look at an electric bill you've got all sorts of charges in there taxes, EU energy efficiency they're all non-bipassable charges so once you take all of those charges out you're left with a certain dollar amount per meter we then multiply that by 85% so that there's a window for future efficiencies say you come through here and you do another energy study and these lights get more efficient and the lights upstairs are other electrical loads are reduced that buffer of 15% of what your total load output is, is left for future efficiencies and what we did is we took a look at all of your meters over the last year and we backed out the non-bipassable charges to give us applicable charges that then equate to a net meter credit allocation and following down the chart we did about 133,000 kilowatt hours worth of credits that we could put towards a system and if you just flip to the last page there's a net meter value pro forma of how the net meter agreement works there it is a net meter credit rate an annual allocation which boils down to the net meter cash value at 100% so the system is going to produce roughly actually your credit allocation is worth 23,000 dollars a year and what we offer is basically a split between the cash value and the savings where it's 90-10 90% of the cash value goes back to the system owner 10% which is kept as the savings so in your instance you're 100% of your system so you're seeing all of the value here because you're not sharing any of the financial risk we're simply giving you the savings and asking if you want to become a no risk partner to the system and this is also obviously outside of the lease agreement because the lease is a net meter agreement so a completely separate opportunity to just save money on your election and keep the benefit local to the time so what you're saying here with this net metering part of it is that you're basing this is just based upon the fact that the talent only needs so much power that it can get net meter credits and a small fraction of what the array is generating yeah this is a little more than it's right around half actually so the array itself will generate more unfortunately slash fortunately you guys can't use it so we will be working with other municipalities and schools that will be part of the array as well as a group if you weren't previously net metering you could use 100% of this array without but because you're already previously net metering your two largest meters you can only take 133,000 more kilowatt hours and that still doesn't cap you from your total capped amount by state statute which is 500 KW AC which is roughly 900,000 kilowatt hours a year so bill comes in to us from Green Mountain for the full $10,000 does that bill show the credit on it from the net meter but then we have to pay 90% of that credit to you yep it's the same similar agreement that you're in with your other net metering arrangement you'll receive your bill and you'll receive a credit on your bill and then you'll receive an invoice from us the system owner at the same time and you only pay for actuals so if the system's not producing you're not paying and when I say pay means you're saving because those credits are being placed on your bill on a monthly basis we also run it through your fiscal year so that ends on your fiscal year with the bill inside but we get it every month so it doesn't matter when you're running well the year ended credits, bank June will hit in July so on that $10,000 bill you're now paying $900 $9,000 instead of $10,000 I'm just wondering if the admin and all that is worth 10% what do we get on the other one do we get 10% or do we get more I would have to check I don't know I could only topically tell you what I assume based on my study which is about 10 to 15% and that's just me reverse wondering about knowing any details of the arrangement by seeing how much they're placing on that meter how does this compare to the agreement and maybe you covered this before that we agreed to this is completely separate this was something that we promised that we would give to you first so that you can either be a member or not be a member it's another way for you guys to save more money for the lease payment you'll save 10% on your electric spending that's worth the amount we can put on your actual bill and you guys do this just as a nice idea what's the need to come to the fountain I see there's no risk we're already working with you we're citing on your property we're going to be paying you a long term lease do you get a higher rate for your power if it's on a net metering agreement the only way that we can determine if these projects are on that meter so you need somebody that's the town or somebody else to step up and agree to take this as a net metering as part of your permit because it's virtual we can go anywhere within GMP and we have plenty of demand to fill and if you think about the intention of the program it was to build savings miles across from where these things are cited so if you actually work from the physical site of your solar site out those are your best people whether they're schools or municipalities and then why municipalities you guys are going to be here hopefully forever same with schools and that has to do but you guys he means the town not literally not literally well modern medicine is getting pretty good doesn't mean we'll be on the board but to answer the question directly schools and towns are our best customers and we have a lot of them throughout the state and every time we cite a project we always faithfully come back to where we're cited and say do you want to be a member and put the offer out there so this presentation and I'll leave it with that is informational I've forwarded Adolfo everything that you have in front of you plus I made some photocopies of the net meter agreement which was drawn up by the Vermont Leagues of Cities and Towns of the supervisory union and if you guys choose to do business with us to have that reviewed it's a no-pocket deal we will cover the reasonable legal expense to have that reviewed so that it doesn't cost you guys any extra money and I will leave it at that and say thank you very much and coordinate with Adolfo and if it does get to the point where you guys want to make a decision we can come back to an additional meeting great thank you sure system end of life I'm not sure I understand what you mean that's not this agreement this is just for the credits we have a lease on the actual land in those different agreement different part of it sure did you sign it yeah we did we signed it on here your sheet is eligible that's a key proposed town policies Jim Carion is here Jim is our representative with passive also with PLCT issues related to mitigation of risks and other types of issues so one of the conversations that Jim and I have had over the last several months it's a year now it's how to continue to reduce risk to the town one of the more recent items that we discussed included two new or several new proposed policies two of which are before the select for today the first is a drug and alcohol for commercial motor vehicle operators policy and the other is incident recording medical treatment and accident investigation policy for one of these policies the incident reporting we currently use an incident reporting sheet that is provided by PLCT for the process but we don't actually have a policy in place that details everything so Jim offered to come to the meeting today to answer any questions and then also to briefly speak to the board about the specific issues so that everyone's aware of what the policies will actually do yeah so the incident reporting policy that you have there is actually a worker it's basically for workers com injuries it's a best practice so there are a couple pieces to it there's the timeliness of reporting and how to do that there's also a piece in there on designated medical providers that as a as an employer you have the ability to designate your own medical provider and what we recommend to municipalities is to choose a medical provider that specializes in occupational medicine because those are the doctors that understand workplace and will be more likely to try to get workers back to work as soon as they can get back to work one of the benefits of getting employee back to work is not only that you reduce the amount of indemnity or lost time for that individual but it's also it's just better for the individual and their healing process to be back at work and not sitting in front of the TV on the couch so there's a designated medical provider piece and then the last piece is incident investigation or accident investigation so we know that anytime an injury occurs it's a great chance an opportunity that you don't want to pass up to figure out why that incident happened why that injury occurred and how do you prevent that going forward so that policy there kind of incorporates all three of those workers' calm best practices any questions on that policy so the second one is the drug and alcohol testing policy for commercial motor vehicle operators that policy is actually a mandated policy all your drivers are already tested anyway that operates a commercial motor vehicle is in a federally approved drug and alcohol testing it's operated by the Vermont League of Cities and Towns through our third party administrator occupational drug testing on this name one thing that I noticed that the town didn't have in place was a commercial motor vehicle operator drug and alcohol testing policy which meets the federal mandate there are actually 11 things that a policy must include and it did not bring copies of those 11 mandated requirements but you'll see that the policy is fairly lengthy 15, 16 pages long and that's because it includes all of those mandated requirements it's a model that we put together and it was actually just tested at another municipality last week by a compliance officer from the federal motor carrier and it passed muster so I can report on that which is great news we actually had a developed it and sent it out to municipalities this was in 2012 so it's been a while it went out to Berlin and Tour Nelson who was the head of the motor carrier actually sat on that board and he was very impressed with that policy as well so there were some guidance in it Adolfo went through that made his changes where he needed to he can speak on that when he comes back but are there any questions I know it's the federal motor carrier drug and alcohol testing requirements are it's not something and I think this policy it will not only provide kind of a personnel policy that you guys can follow but it also has a guidance in there so that people who don't deal with it on a normal basis know what to do if a certain thing happens like a positive test or there's a motor vehicle accident do we post-test some post-accident test somebody or not it tells you right in there when you can do it and when you can so what departments does this apply to Adolfo would apply to highway and also to water waste water for the most part fire and fire and fire at that point but we're not required to have a CDL to operate a fire we are looking at the commercial definition though but it says that employees and prospective employees are not subject to the policy just because they have a CDL no I understood I guess if I look at this section 3 in number 1, 2, 3 4, 5 so what we're saying with this policy is that if a snowplow driver or a firefighter has one drink, one beer 3 hours and 50 minutes before they get called out on duty they can't respond well this would be from our conversations it specifically applies to the commercial aspect of the use of the vehicle so if it's for the purposes of firefighting it's for the public good as opposed to commercial truck or delivering something so I guess when I look at the commercial definition using commerce or transport passengers which the fire truck transports that is like a school bus or a bus it's where you're transporting people for pay so in the federal law the definition for commercial motive well actually not the definition there's an exemption for emergency responders and so and are plow truck drivers if they have a beer 3 hours and 50 minutes well the town has a zero alcohol and drug policy in place at the moment so all our employees when they're on the clock are allowed to not have any alcohol no I understand but if it's 10 o'clock on Friday night and then they get called out at midnight the idea at that point would be if any employee who's on call or knows that they're going to be on call should also not be consuming alcohol during that process because of the potential to be called into work but if they do have alcohol in their system and they come in and the supervisor notices that their bloodshot eyes and they do smell of alcohol then at that point it's my challenge is with the 4 hours how random is that the percentages concentration on it so if that all makes sense that's testable, that's pertaining to body weight and all that other stuff but a 4 hour window is a arbitrary number to me why not 8 hours why not 2 hours so in the law it says that they're not allowed to consume alcohol but then 4 hours prior to performing a safety sensitive function no it's federal so all of this follows all the definitions of prohibited conduct follow what the federal law says so it's not going outside that it's not being made up so they've picked an alternative for the fancy we're enforcing it and if someone pounded a keg 3 hours before they returned or came through safety sensitive duties which includes driving fire the supervisor will hopefully notice that if they're trained in reasonable suspicion and they could order a test on that I guess my only point was a keg versus a beer a 250 pound person versus an 80 pound person oh there's a whole thing that's why the VMI that's why the BAC matters and that's why the BAC is much lower in a federal drug test for commercial motor vehicles than it is for personal vehicles so a .02 or greater so a .04 is a positive test whereas for an individual is .08 a .02 or greater .02 to .39 .02 to .039 that's actually they can't work for 24 hours so if they get if they blow between those they can't work for 24 hours and they have to see I believe in the policy of Dolpho and Bill and have to have a discussion around alcohol use that's one of the this is compounded by the pound zero tolerance so actually if they blow anything they're in violation of the pound zero tolerance policy it's if they blow over a .02 that they're in violation of the federal motor carrier also I would like to point out that this particular policy maybe you spoke about it when I was out of the room but there is the requirement of a reasonable suspicion training that's something that Jim and I have been speaking about and we actually have agreed to host a reasonable suspicion training here in Randolph and inviting people from all over the state and so the necessary personnel that our staff are going to be invited to attend or have been directed to attend and that includes highway and also water wastewater because they supervise staff with CDL licenses and fire advisory because this topic has come up about volunteers and consuming alcohol and the concern of I'm not trained to detect whether someone's been drinking or not I also plan to share the reasonable suspicion training at the next fire advisory meeting and invite the chiefs or fire personnel to attend so they can also potentially more questions on the policies and motion to adopt them so they haven't read them all thoroughly yeah I did if whatever it's worth I know that Jim and I have talked about reducing the experience points for the town we're on a good trajectory to start reducing our costs for passive insurance this is one of those avenues that will continue to help to reduce the town's liability our expense for passive membership and again it's just another tool for us to be able to more safely manage the staff to ensure that their safety is actually regimented so we can't then later on be sued and say well we didn't follow the procedure we could say well here's the policy we followed the procedure and see what it is the federal motor carrier required to do everything that's in here anyway this is basically just taking the law that we have to follow now so specifically in the federal motor carrier regulation it outlines 11 mandated requirements and I did not print them out but I do have them here I took a photocopy of it on our website is there anything in here that we're not required to do that the policy is asking us to do it's all required it's a mandated it's a mandated policy excuse me there's no choice anyway we don't have a choice anyway but if we don't adopt it then we have a legal issue potentially of not having it right so what just happened in the municipality is that they had a positive drug test and within a week federal motor carrier compliance officer their door and inspected policy wanted to see their policy and then there were some other issues as well so in the 3 federal motor carrier regulation 382.601 employer obligation to promulgate a policy on misuse of alcohol and use of controlled substances each employer shall provide education materials that explain the requirements of this part and the employer's policies and procedures with respect to meeting these requirements number one the employer shall ensure that a copy of the materials is distributed to each driver so it goes on talking about how they have to share that required content so this is B the materials to be made available by those drivers must include detailed discussion of at least the following the identity of the person designated by the employer to answer driver questions about materials the categories of drivers who are subject to the provisions sufficient information about safety sensitive functions performed by those drivers and make clear what period of a work day the drivers required to be in compliance specific information concerning driver conduct that is prohibited by this part there are circumstances under which a driver will be tested for alcohol and controlled substances which is primarily most of that policy the procedures that will be used to test for this presence of alcohol and controlled substances protect the driver and the integrity of the testing process safeguard the validity of the test results that those results are attributed to the correct driver including post accident information procedures and instructions required by 382303 the requirement that the driver submit to alcohol and controlled substance testing administered in accordance to that part an explanation will constitute a refusal to submit to a test the consequences for drivers that found to be in violation of this part consequences for drivers found to have an alcohol concentration of .02 or greater and information concerning the effects of alcohol and controlled substances used on an individual's health work personal life signs and symptoms of alcohol and controlled substance problems and available methods of intervening when an alcohol or controlled substance problems is suspected so that's what's required and policy so what we did in 2012 is develop this policy with our municipal assistant center and our attorneys we had it reviewed by federal motor care to make sure that it would pass and again like I said earlier that it was put to test last week at a municipality and it did did the job so how many municipalities have adopted this I don't know you know I would say at least 60 or 70% of the ones that I work with I'm working with Newport City St. John's Berry and you Newport we want to take action on this tonight or you want to delay it until next month not to be the dead horse it's required I don't have a I'm happy to move it I want to see says come second all those in favor aye opposed stage 3-0-1, 3-0-2 that would be 5 yeah yeah thank you 4-0 if you don't vote abstain you automatically that's what I thought town report yeah wanted to bring to the attention of the select board that we're getting to that time of year we are compiling the town report this time last year we brought to the select board to ask several questions including to whom to the select board wanted to dedicate the report will any select board member volunteer to write the message from the select board that will be printed in the town report and then also if the select board wanted to at this point schedule the informational meeting that should be held at least within 10 days of town meeting next year and then also if the select board at this point was interested in scheduling time to hold budget preview meetings it's a whole number of things but we could start with the first one if there's a willingness to yeah are there parts of this that we can do next meeting no you're into December yeah at that point all he's asking is to set some dates I know your wife went to bed already what are you worried about it's true the first question that I had on my list was dedication of report and we've had a suggestion from a staff member to potentially dedicate the report to Pat French who's been a long time resident of the town or lifelong resident of the town and worked for the town for well over 20 years I was asked to bring that to the board from a member of the staff and so I'm doing that but the board is more than willing to dedicate it to anyone else you can come in with ideas for the next board meeting yeah sure the other question is if a board member would be willing to volunteer to draft the message on behalf of the select board it's typically a paragraph half a page I think Jerry volunteered to do it last year Larry did you do it last year sounds like we got a winner we're supposed to look down don't make that contact I'd be happy to thank you Larry the next question is if there was a preference of day informational meeting of town there's a 10 day period between when town meeting is and when we can first have the informational meeting so the date span would be the 23rd of February would be the first day with town meeting being on March 5th which is the first Tuesday of March so anytime between the 23rd of February to the 4th of March informational meeting is where we go over the weekend and all that with folks that's usually the night before usually the night before in this case, yeah break tradition yeah, let's go Sunday okay so it's Sunday and we've heard from folks the same they wanted accessibility they even talked about town meeting on the weekend so at least having the informational weekend may help yeah, that's Saturday I mean that could be a gauge for whether people will actually attend town meeting on Saturday I think last year there wasn't anyone we have them at night usually and nobody shows up why was there last year last year yeah, no one else preferred time morning or late afternoon or evening not right in the middle of the day nobody's going to attend anyway I know, so I don't want to ruin my day but I have one o'clock plan to be in town well, we would do town meeting on the weekend at 10, right? same time, different day I'm good with that suggestion 10 or earlier about March 2nd at 8 we can sit here at 10 for half an hour by ourselves or we can sit here at 8 for half an hour by ourselves I don't think 8 sounds great do you haven't had time to get up and have breakfast by 8 o'clock? I don't have time to do that okay, what else can we do? they'll last sorry forget punty the last question I have is if between now and the end of the year if the select board wanted to schedule some time to actually meet with me and the finance director to go over the budget specifically on sections or the whole thing at once usually we set 3 or 4 meetings and we just start paneling through it I believe the budget committee is meeting the 20th and 2 is there? you guys are meeting 11 we're not doing that we're not doing that do you love those? November so they should have a chance to go through it before we do it's awful and I had a discussion and we're going to you're still in there yet so we thought we might start trying to do department by department as opposed to a whole thing and then you could start coming quarterly and telling us what's going on wouldn't that be helpful so it's like I keep wanting to dive into the half of our town's budget which is 1.7 million so do we need to set dates or do you want to wait until you get through the budget committee meeting to I think we should set dates because they're just starting to look at November they won't be done until the end of December because they're the third Tuesday of the month and we're going to have to see it before the third Tuesday of December what I could do is I could attend both and then lay information or if a budget committee member could attend to share information we can relay information that way if there are meetings happening concurrently what's stuff going on it's going to be tight so I think some parallel processing sir don't you yeah certainly so we're going to schedule some in December early or late what are you thinking to me the first week of December would be better just because the longer we wait the more busy people get typically in that month and I'm in England 9, 10, 11, 12 now and we don't start games still though send you photos of Buffalo it's okay did you already buy tickets? I was waiting for you so what days work that week people I think I know how early we go every day is fine so for Monday you know game just Monday what about that your schedule for that week on the first week of December the fourth, fifth, sixth or seventh I'm pretty open except for mornings four, five, six seven, four fourth so December 4th at 5.30 sure you'll send us a meeting right here yep we'll send that do you want a second one December we know the next week is out we know the next week is out we know the next week is out we know the next week is out we know the next week the next week is out probably Christmas week is out so that would make it the week of the 17 that could be on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday that would be out of town Thursday, Friday our creation committee meeting on Monday at 5.30 18th Tuesday at 5.30 the rest of the week works for me it gives us two then we need more we can figure them out that works thank you that's it I'll bring back the other question at a later meeting so we need to ratify the vote that we took earlier to hold the public hearing tonight that was my fault I inadvertently forgot to ask for a meeting date and time at the last meeting which resulted in my requesting a vote in between I don't want to make a motion to hold the public hearing on the roads tonight second motion to the second all those in favor hang post stand I made a motion and seconded it to ratify the hearing North Randolph Road Colbert Project so up until now I thought that this was the agenda item that Mike and Matt would enjoy the most because of these schematics here but maybe not we were granted we were awarded a grant from B. Tran to perform more on a field Colbert on North Randolph Road we have been working with B. Tran to make sure that we perform the work in accordance to their specs and the project is currently in the phase where we are soon to send out an RFP to start collecting them the one exception that's different from this project from others is that because of the timing B. Tran has essentially told us that they would give us this grant and it's $57,000 a little under 57 but the work has to be completed by the end of this year and so we're rushing to make sure that we get through this process that's calendar year and so one of the steps that is different from most other projects is that a contractor has off through B. Tran has offered to essentially commence constructing the Colbert itself so we would place the order the Colbert would cost us roughly about $14,000 and then we would then require any contractor who bids the project that they use this Colbert that we're ordering in advance and we don't expect that to be any problems it's just other than the need to order the item before putting it out to bid it's a project that should be done we actually had applied for this grant we didn't get it we invited the rep to come out from B. Tran he came and inspected it he said we'll find the money for you to do it and that's what happened policy on purchasing Colberts because by the grant we're required to follow our town procurement is this a sole source we can justify we can list it as a sole source because we're getting the B. Tran's price for it it's coming in at a cheaper price it was recommended by the agency that gave us the grant and so it would fall under the exemption of the purchasing policy the board the board has already approved the grant so I just didn't feel comfortable not sharing this project with you right at the moment where we're making the steps because we're purchasing a Colberts before actually putting the project out to bid I wanted to make sure the board knew that this is a step that's a little unorthodox and you're aware in case a question comes up later on so it's more just sharing knowledge about the project or if there were any concerns that the board had we can discuss it now quick question on the bill are they looking to baffle that when you're through and lower storm events is that what that is it looks like that's what it is I believe that one of the categories is that we have to have water that goes through I don't know the specifics of I'm just more worried about the water ponding and metal pipe so is that coating that's on here sufficient for that we've been told it is but I could double check if you want the board to place the order we haven't ordered yet so this is a good time to check alright let me write that smell it'll have a natural silt bottom then yeah, silt too make sure you put the right rocks in it because certain fish don't like their bellies to come when we go to the Colberts it's been serious I'm laughing because he's he's going to batch on this yeah, not because it's true don't worry, fish and wildlife will tell you exactly what they want in there it's not when you're in the middle of a project and they tell you that agenda development they could do anything under that grants from an outdoor recreation grant this is a grant that is relatively new the state is in the process of making funding available for outdoor recreational uses the town has been working with RASTA other community partners and working to essentially create a plan to apply for this grant our representative, Zach Freeman has pulled together a team including me and a few other representatives including RASTA so we could apply for the grant after having found an appropriate project for it this is something that we feel that the town is kind of leading toward with the outdoor recreational opportunities we want to make sure that any funding that becomes available we could essentially capture we do not have a project yet we're working to essentially create the project we're forming a team now to identify what essentially other needs are other than those that have already been discussed and then apply for the grant December 14th December 14th so we could have a similar if the board so chose we could have a similar process to Vorac as we did with the EV charging station grants which is essentially authorize me to work with the group come up with a plan work on a potential avenue for applying for Vorac and at the December meeting we could come back with a very detailed plan of this is what the community group came up with and then ask for your approval at that point who's the local group, Zach, yourself for now we have Zach Freeman we have me and I could find his email here we have I could be Josh I don't here we go we have Pat Moulton from VTC we have Paul Ray we have Mary Russ who's executive director of White River Partnership we have Potential Perry as the private business representative and then Zach as the actual recreation roster representative so the requirement is that this community group be comprised of different portions of the community not just the town so we have business we have education we have town if you bring it to us on the 13th to approve the application we'll make it 14th deadline wild land fire year this was a I received an email message from our Randolph center fire chief who had expressed a strong interest in applying for this grant I have not had the opportunity to fully read through the grant itself other than the initial 50-50 grant match I have not been able to establish contact with the Randolph center fire chief to see what exactly the funds would be used for probably they give you on the application form they give you line items and you go through their little book and there's eligible equipment and then you total it up and say ours is 50% so mass helmets goggles those were on there we went through the list those ugly pants the yellow shirts indian bags it means very long so you're saying Randolph center village jay wrote to me he's the only one of the three chiefs that asked for this opportunity but I suppose if we do if the select board authorizes we can then approach the other chiefs and say hey listen we're going to be doing this do you also need anything good to be brought up the fire how many I wasn't typically I can remember yeah is it a quiet trox no small mere and stuff like grass fires forest fires so November 13th right you're about out of time I know we put I know the fire department put their list together yeah but if you're going to get the other two involved yeah and I can reach out to them tomorrow you got to put it in although they're still accepting them I know so I have to do a pin roll this is what Tuesday look at what they're asking for is the items that got to be ordered they have that count okay I would need just an approval and then I could then share with Jay that it was approved and he could I'll also ask him to contact the other chiefs and make a meeting on the project they'll come out of the budget but it's a way to pay for half of it anybody going to make a motion to approve that so a second motion to second all those in favor hi I noticed one looking at the table no dude in your library loan for your system grant this was a grant that the select board had authorized me to authorize a library to apply for we have been we were awarded a grant and now this would be to accept the grant so that we can continue to participate in the interlibrary career system do we have any reporting requirements or anything like that on this no most of them would come through the library they're very I know about $292 that's not very much staff time to track stuff and process paperwork it's costing us more than it is I've expressed brought this up a few times I've expressed the board's concern to our library director she understands the concern but she feels that she has sufficient time to be able to process these and check them and participate in them so she didn't express any concern with taking too much of her time but she and I have agreed to continue talking she feels it's okay even our advent time to process the invoice to get reimbursed off the grant it's about taking off the value of the grant you know some of these aren't worth chasing the motion and the second all those in favor better connections grant program this is a grant program that came to our attention within the last week we were hoping to ask the select board for authorization to apply for the grant we are still working on identifying projects that we could essentially fit into this particular grant and if we find one we could certainly apply for it so we were essentially asking just for permission to apply for the grant find the project first and then apply for the grant what's the due date of it it is December I think it's in December you'd have time to bring the final project back to us yeah I don't recall the actual deadline but I could work to find it here quickly I think it's worth exploring is that all you're looking for is authorization to explore it authorization to explore and if the time doesn't coincide with the next select board meeting I could certainly reach out to the board and tell us what the timeline is of the project 35k fix manganese a lawsuit name we have a guest here to walk us through it who was here last select board meeting and he's here to talk a little bit more about it how's it going guys Sam Hooper representing the R3 sub committee on EV Chargers I spent the day on Monday with a bunch of electrical companies who install EV Chargers and we did a walk through on location decided on town hall two parking spots to the if you're standing at the front door looking out to the left of the front door the reason for this location is because it's significantly more cost effective for the install to come right out of the boiler room here the power comes out of and there's minimal excavation that needs to be done this is for a level 2 charger and puts us on a charge point app so folks who have electric cars can find this location on their iPhone or whatever kind of phone they use and we had six bidders maybe seven I can't remember now but all are going to put in a bid application and try to make it as most cost effective as possible and I guess I'm here today to ask you guys to approve the application for grant funding say two spots you're talking about two charging stations side by side not two spots for one charging station it's one charging station with two heads so it can charge two vehicles side by side at once so doesn't the grant require us to do two chargers or four places I don't recall no I think it was just one one item and then with two connections I don't recall there being four you had to put in two chargers I think it has to be just two heads it's been mine was it the paperwork for that we needed to go with two different they wanted to do two different ones it was a level two and a level three oh they were giving cost options on the level two and three but you could pick yeah it was just giving you the various options so there's two spaces to the left where the doors are going out do they meet the ADA requirements and not to take an ADA space correct am I thinking that we had to have two because remember the whole discussion was whether they would be at the same spot or if we would put in two different locations in town it would be easier to if you had one location to get a slot if that one was already taken it would be beside it we had proposed three locations and we theoretically could as a town apply for multiple locations and then there comes somebody brought up the fact that would it be smarter to have a central location for charging stations but there's no minimum or maximum number of places that you have to Plainfield did one last year just one charger is there not enough current that's piped to the streetlights that go to the middle of the median to make it so you could only escape 10 feet instead of all the way around the building we didn't explore that option we just explored the option on this side of the building just to ensure that there was less excavating and was right next to the dirt and not have to cut through any pavement to whether or not one of the streetlights would provide enough power so it's not a huge amount of power you need 40 amps 208 220s grade but you're talking quarter inch PVC pipe and when we were talking with the bears they really liked this location here for they said and we were even looking at the two spots closest to the bushes and they said they won't change our bed if we go two spots over in order to accommodate that handicap non-charging spot were they only considering the building and the lights correct yeah the level 2 decision versus level 3 was there more information you guys got from that investigation they were going to provide it just through the general conversations that we had during the walkthrough it seemed like the town just wouldn't necessarily benefit from the level 3 I think the cost would be so great that it would increase our portion of the actual project and that we wouldn't see that much of a return for the purposes of the town versus the charging capacity they could do it but just the cost at least from their perspective we wouldn't get our money's worth for that project it's difficult because the level 3 charger the ROI on it because the upfront cost is so high the data doesn't perform quite yet so it's a little bit more hopeful so if you know but so the level 2 looks to be more to be more fit I was just asking from an attractive rate who's going to come and stay 8 hours which would be good for spending money down versus 2 hours I don't remember what ratios were I think it was roughly about 25 miles per hour of charge on the level 2 so we figured they'd park for 2 hours we had 50 miles with the charge time to walk around and get a snack get some food I'll park in the car and drive away my question is the location of choosing optimal for getting people to walk around or are they going to sit in their cars and sort of on their phones while they're waiting which one to town Wi-Fi off well yeah it's a more central location where they go over to one main or people it's within a 3 minute walk you don't know that literally if you're driving around in your EV and you look on the app and you're like I need a charge to come in town it's a draw and then they're sitting in the town hall offices especially if the weather's not great they're going to just stay in their car and blow their iPhone as opposed to going and serving the local businesses they won't want to stay in their car for 4 hours to charge their car after watching people at the library for all those hours and what people do on their iPhones they might so we asked a lot of those questions last time some of the things that Mike was getting at ADA accessible the cost of installing because we were talking about where it's visible and all that and there's just one to no town property there the ADA kind of is a big challenge for those areas of yours and then the cost of ripping up all the sidewalk or whatever to get power to those locations it's a nightmare so we did ask Sam and the team to go back and investigate some of those things and I think that's a result of that walk around is there anything to say that when we have those parking spaces the only thing that can park there are these electric cars that are trying to charge that's a good question because that's two spaces right in front of town home given up to what will be vacant a fair amount of time EV only signs in those places and a lot of our elderly residents don't have EV cars probably won't be getting them they're not going to make that platform or cold weather they have two prime spots I think it might be worth building it's a little further away so right now do we have to have the exact location does it have to show on a plan the exact location or can you just say you're going to put two in the parking lot by town hall we have until so the bidders have been given until the 16th to get their bids into the town the deadline for the application I believe is the 30th I believe it's the end of the month and so we can probably if we want to look at another location we can do that we still have time to do that I don't know if you want to wait until but you've asked the bids to come in for those two specific sites so you're going to have to re-bid it for a different location right we're signed up and I I just don't know that that's the it's not like we have so many electric cars in town that there's going to be a line waiting to be aligned putting it for planning for the RE-squared future wherever it is so if you're coming out of this part of building you're trying to do that so you don't have to dig up any pavement and have a short run with a power cord that was the idea behind this particular location it's just a shorter distance and it's all dirt for the most part but laying fiber we have like we just go it's a narrow thing so CJ can we have wait a minute this is a discussion the board needs to have so hang on the if we've moved it to the other side of that in the parking you just have to go dig through the pavement and patch it which is an additional cost to doing the project we just put a speed bump in there let's dig that we can if the board would like we can go back to the bidders and say hey listen there was this other island in the area they're familiar with with the layout of the town and say we have power lights here would it make sense to also put it here so now we're not directly in front of town hall we're on the opposite side in the island and for the most part the spots as we walk out on the opposite on the opposite end are down property so we could also ask them to see if that's a viable option maybe get the bids for both options mm-hmm asking for it to also be if it was located so I'm sorry what was the power of foot recordings 40 amps 40 amps 208 208 I'm happy to not yet no so it hasn't gone out to the contractor yet so we don't even have to amend any no from us we haven't send it out unless did you send something out or did the R3 group send the bid the RFP out to the bidders no they're sending it was just based on what does the visual the knowledge they absorb you can't go out and you've asked the ones that came and did the walk around you asked them to send you a quote they they're welcome to or welcome not to but they're expected to send a quote in by the 16th yes they want a job is this the town of Randolph grant we haven't applied for it right but if it's our project we've got to follow procurement we can just meet with a bunch of contractors and say hey give us a quote you've got to have a scope well not that it goes out to them I'm happy to be back in touch with all of them and do it however I would think we'd send out a scope asking for bid on the two spaces that have been identified and then the other side and then make a decision which one to go with does it right now the only the only involvement the town has had is you know meet with them as they were walking through the building and tell them like you know this is if we apply for the grant this is would likely where it would be so we were very clear with we haven't applied for the grant if we do this is likely where it would be if you need a cost estimate to put in it's the budget yeah right I think that's why that number is yeah I think that's why well so to be transparent those contractors were coming to town to do VTC and Gifford as well so we thought obviously if everybody's going to be in town let's show them this site as well um the idea of the 16th for a deadline to get bids in was you know to give us some wiggle room as to whether the town wanted to apply for the grant or not by the end of the month you're probably okay if you're just getting an estimate to give a bidding check your procurement to make sure if they submit an estimate now they're not unable to bid later because they have their privy to the scope and what's going on since that unfair advantage or whatever they're looking at yeah I'm nearly just signed up so I can sell some gloves I'm sure you will you were steaming them tonight we gave you plenty of time yeah happy to do whatever you guys want to I'd get the estimates applied for the grant and the higher whatever the higher estimate is and then we can decide where to put it okay just one other quick thought did you guys look around the library at those spaces there yeah um ADA so we'll work that out I'll keep working with Sam and the group and I'll bring Marty into the and then we'll try to get some additional estimates it's to determine who does it great good good clear well I think so I think the total cost yeah no yeah take the higher of the two apply for that and then make a decision yeah where to put it that sounds great thanks so much business economic director position so we pulled together a final draft economic development director position announcement to share with the board in creating this we obtained input from the town's economic development committee we also shared it with the groups so that they could have input we reviewed their inputs tried to tailor the position announcement so that we're essentially capturing the type of person that we need as opposed to a catch all person that will include a number of different things that were that was initially suggested by some members of the community so this specific position would essentially mostly focus on economic development the only difference in that that would keep being specifically only economic development is that it also focuses on grants however the grant portion of it also deals with grants on economic development and helping of the town in that way so shared this with the board so that the board was interested we could finalize this portion of it we still have to continue working with our attorney because the position itself would be as a contract to a direct town employee so our attorney would help us to craft the recruitment material would ensure that any material that we have in terms of a contract would also fall with the legal scope of the law and the contract would be annual based would be for 3 year period and if we word it so that at the end of the third year if the position is actually bearing fruit the town can then reconsider terminating and we could if our attorney says we could extend the contract as a contract without the benefits we could consider that option we could also consider at that point if it's working out well we could make the position an official town position with benefits and everything else so is there any previous employer worked with change their policies for contract because of the lawsuit that apple contractors had they were long term contractors end up suing apple for the rights to the same benefits and they won as employees so I don't know if that's I think it was apple, it may have been google but it was apple so I don't know if there's any precedent there that we have to be concerned about or not we could double and triple check and start the recruitment process the idea is to make sure that our attorney vets everything including an employment contract including the advertisement portion of it so that it's very clear within the scope of the law so that if someone is hired they understand that it really is for a set period of time and at that point we could end the agreement and then say thank you or if it's legal we could also say three year period with an extension of after that just worried about the three year period versus under a year check that with Scott absolutely he's who we're going to make sure that we don't want to get into an issue where we draft something and then he looks at it or misses something so the idea is to ask him to draft it for us and then we could take a look at it and if we don't necessarily have to start recruiting right away this is something that we can put off so if the board so chose we could bring this to Scott ask him to have a draft contract bring it back to the board in December and then go through that process at that point I'd like to see this get on the streets sometime we can talk about this for whatever you want you want to build the town and I think the better way is to ask the question about whether we'll get into any issues with it being a contract employee with a term of three years and if he doesn't see any issues with it I'd put it out get it out there the contract is something you can negotiate afterwards I don't know that we need that to begin recruitment I don't have the exact date but I know he and I spoke about that specific portion and he said so long as the contract itself said excluding from this the personnel policy that gives all these rights he said we could do a contract for an employee but I'll double check with him again he's been here for just now he had comments on the announcement here the last sentence on the first page says can they actually be willing to consider relocating to the town of Randolph should we all consider it? No I mean it just seems like quite wide so the idea behind the idea is another municipality where I worked it was encouraged to make sure that people are invested in the community the idea is we're going to recruit not just within the town we understand that we're going to have a lot of candidates within the town but the idea is to also get this announcement out there as wide as we can and if someone who lives in New Hampshire and says I'm willing to drive we're not going to force them to relocate to Randolph but we could always ask the question of hey are you willing to move to Randolph or are you looking to help build for the future it'd be ideal if you moved here odds are we're probably going to have a candidate from the immediate area who has a spouse who has benefits and this will be something they're looking to do maybe it doesn't really matter I just wouldn't want anybody to be turned off by that because you might also find that you don't get very many good applications and that if someone has to drive from a half an hour away and that's what it's just going to be then it's great because they are qualified if you can ask them that question in an interview anyway I don't think it's a big deal I would hate to see someone look at this and be like oh I can't move to Randolph where they don't bother applying or they take it seriously if they do this document is a draft ultimately the decision is a board so I could take it out and the sentence before that is a perfectly fine sentence and I'm just not sure it's a qualification it's likely the candidate will be considered a member of the Townsend management team so maybe that just goes someplace else it's probably the announcement rather than the qualification sort of objective for purpose okay and the other one on the compensation I guess does not include other benefits but unemployment there's all kind of insurance we're mandated to actually provide because there are some that we are mandated to actually offer so again we'll share this with Scott our attorney to make sure that what we put out there is going to be in accordance with law but there are that we're required to actually give it's not like health or dental or vision or unemployment so those are some of the benefits that we do have to give but not the medical and not dental and vision the extras we would like to ask the board to skip that we are still waiting for revised comments from our attorney special appropriations policy that is an item that is to sign the board pass the special appropriation policy in August this form was never given to the board to sign so it's just here for them to sign nope it was just the UV charging station it did not I'll be very brief there are just a few things that I'd like to share in our ongoing communication about outdoor recreation we have learned and are working with Rosta and other outdoor groups to potentially bring an outdoor recreation business to Randolph they are very can you take the conversation out if you want they are very close to potentially deciding to open up a business and this would be in the Pleasant Street section where the two boarded up homes are and this is the white home right at the intersection of the Prince Street lot and Pleasant Street so the business would potentially open there they've asked that we not share too much other than just general terms about the business but it would be outdoor recreation Rosta is involved and they feel that if they do move forward they feel very confident about moving forward if they do they would open by spring so are we talking like a recreation park like for kids to go run around that are we talking like a merchant store it would be a merchant store for somebody to go in there to yeah be a great business when I'm able to share more I just respectful of their business wishes but it's very promising there is one this may be a little bit tricky there are these two the boarded up properties on South Pleasant Street more on Pleasant Street they're an ISOR one of them was just purchased and that's the building closest to the laundromat so I believe it's being rehabbed in a certain way or going to be rehabbed in one direction there is this other property that is being considered for business which is the white building right at the Pleasant Street lot and then the one middle building remains unsold and it's inhabitable I believe it's condemned so the idea that I would like to share with the board is to potentially if the board was interested place a special appropriation request leave it up to the voters if they're interested in appropriating a certain amount of money to acquire that property to demolish it so this way it's no longer an ISOR in our core village something that we haven't really fully hashed out it's not something that I feel would go over very well if we told the voters we're appropriating your money to buy another property and demolish it but essentially leaving it up to them and say if you want to tax yourselves a property of $17,000 and then the town could demolish it and we won't be in the middle of the town anymore so it's just what would we do with the demolished site? so there is a potential option of putting bike trail maps so if someone is riding along one of our trails and then we continue to build out our bike outdoor recreation or any type of other recreation we could essentially put bike trail maps there in addition to being able to look out into the distance so the idea would just not do much other than just put these signs up large maps that tell people exactly where to go and use the trails the goal would be to eliminate life in the core it's just some clear laundromat, building sold demolition opportunity business opportunity maybe we could encourage one of the other two to include that in their purchase because the two all three buildings were condemned that one time and so the other two are so whoever bought the first one is probably going to have to do some significant upgrades to it and if they want any value of that they're going to have to get rid of the other one anyway it's true the one next to the laundromat should have bought a two for the price at one yeah, it was I think the same sell price, 17,000 and actually I believe that the property that was purchased has less surface area than the one that remains so it's just an option that I wanted to share with the board, we haven't looked into it other than something that remains in the middle of the village we also had a general budget draft that is being worked on by our finance director so we just wanted to share with the board that again we're working on the budget we want to make sure that the differences that we have identified in terms of more efficiencies are going to potentially be reflected in this budget so don't have much to share other than just we're working on the budget at the moment we have the next meeting the ad hoc police district evaluation committee scheduled for November 19th we're open to evaluate the information shared by residents during the hearing and we're hoping to at least one of the committee members has requested that an agenda item be placed on the agenda that says recommendation to the select board so at least one member of the committee is hoping to have this conversation lead to that point I don't think the committee is comfortable at this point making a recommendation yet but I believe we're kind of we're getting there I don't know Larry and Matt, oh you won't be here for it but so we're moving in that direction and the last agenda item is that we have sent a second meeting to request to RECDC and their board members to continue the conversation on the downtown designation program we had our first meeting since then Larry has met with RECDC and has discussed some of the issues that we had previously discussed about grant and the benefits of the town's investment into the program so we're hoping to have a more in-depth conversation about what the town is receiving for its investment into the downtown designation program and that is it for now what was the state of the pool reconstruction so we have finally had a response from potential pool constructors pool designers and folks who design massive amounts of larger pools one has agreed to come out and reevaluate our swimming pool and also provide us with a cost to a cost benefit towards investing in a new swimming pool or the amount of life that remains with our existing infrastructure for swimming pool so we hope to have that information very soon to share with the board and that information will include the lifespan for the repairs that we're performing in addition to the lifespan that remains for the pool that we have now and if the board decides the cost versus the lifespan if it makes sense then we can invest the money to repair the swimming pool but we hope to have that information for the next meeting the other option was also to look at what it would cost if we replaced it whether there were any grants out there that would cover a new pool where they wouldn't cover a maintenance item because if we can invest $100,000 to repair the pool versus make the match on a grant of which our cost is $100,000 it's kind of a no-brainer to put a new pool versus live it along but landed I hope to have more to share with the board for the next meeting on the swimming pool with the goal remaining to open the pool as quickly as possible but also respectful of the town's taxpayer investment and the continued long-term use of the swimming pool I had one thing on the tip of my tongue that I forgot but next meeting Executive session Thanks I have to I can do it