 This is Mike with the 21 report behind the scenes in Orlando, Florida for the 21 convention 2017 10-year anniversary event. I'm sitting alongside Jack Donovan. Jack, welcome to the show. Thank you It's a great to have you here man. And so before we go into some questions I was wondering if you could give a brief overview of your talk and why you chose to talk about it Okay as with anything a lot of my books come from Issues that I've had with people and just problems that I've encountered in life and so This talk was about the concept of Nietzsche and nobility and really overcoming resentment and that's That's the real problem that I saw is that I see a lot of people who they want to be more masculine men And so they get really excited about that and that's that that becomes their value system And then they realize that they're in a world that's upside down and that no one actually values that anymore and so instead of you see so many of them just become bitter and obsessed with People who have differing views from them and I wanted to give them a kind of a direction to go in and You know how to how to kind of overcome that, you know, Nietzsche and resentment and You know, it's still like become the best man that they can be So you mentioned there that the world is upside down. Yeah, could you expand a little bit more about what you mean by that? Well, I mean, I think I think most men if they if they Value masculinity they kind of see that the world is upside down They see that the things that they care about, you know, being strong. They care about courage. They care about You know just Being better at things and then they see kind of this victim culture that we have where people want to You know brag about how bad they've had it and how much they've suffered and and really you actually get social currency for Being, you know, one of the oppressed in some way and people are actually kind of it's bizarre Like people actually kind of scramble to find ways that they're oppressed even if they're quite privileged, you know, like they find some You know, like I guess that the easiest way to the worst examples like when everybody thought they were gluten-sensitive Yeah, you're like here's the reason why I'm special and you know, there's like people call them snowflakes You know everybody wants to be have something wrong with them in some way, which is the exact opposite of the thing that the way Men who want to be more masculine kind of approach the world So how did it get this way? Why do you think the world has has the world had always been upside down or what's what's caused it? No, I mean, it's a progression. I think Obviously, we women have a different role in society than they had before and I so I think a lot of a lot of us get Too much sympathy and we kind of you know, have this mothering instinct that's in society that wasn't in a way There was before and also You know people forget about they want to talk about current politics and things have happened in the past like 50 years But the industrial revolution was huge in that it took, you know men out of the kind of roles they used to be in and You know, so they're searching for other kind of values So you mentioned in your talk and this idea of architecture of greatness Yeah, can you talk to that a little bit? Yeah, yeah, that was just something I came across while I was writing the talk actually You know, like how do I explain, you know resentiment and these two mentalities and You know, I just just thought about it in terms of architecture. It's so stark You know in terms of the differences of like how you view the world like what would you if you could create something amazing? What would you create and You know, the other aspect is like how can we solve the problem of people? Mm-hmm, and you know, I think if you're trying to be a great man, you don't really think that way You know, you're not trying to just fit a bunch of people in the little boxes And I think that the you want to leave this lasting legacy on the world because you believe you're worth it You know, yeah, so you talk a lot about and nobility Why is Nobility important to you I Talked specifically about Nietzsche's concept of nobility because a lot of people would have a different more moralized version of that Noble can just mean good to a lot of people and I'm talking specifically about Nietzsche's idea of nobility and It was one of those things where I was looking for a topic really for another speech and I went back to Nietzsche and found a lot of things like he's saying what I want to say but better and you know, he already figured this part of it out and So his idea of nobility, you know, it's really a little different from what other people would say. It's more oriented towards the conqueror's mindset and To me, I feel like that's important as As a man trying to make decisions that are not based in some pre-existing like system I'm trying to probably do this from scratch and so like I one of the things I talked about in the talk was Talking about things in terms of actions and consequences versus good and evil and obviously Nietzsche wrote a lot about the difference between You know that moving beyond good and evil so you talk and Specifically in the way of men About this idea of tribes. Yes, and something you mentioned in your talk today was about creation What I wanted to ask is what advice would you give to a man who wants to create not join his own tribe? well, I think I in the Q&A I give a similar answer it's What you really you're creating a family. I mean a tribe is really a family and So in one sense you're looking for guys who are better than you at something I think that because it and lots of people say this you have to surround yourself with people who inspire you people who You know, you can learn from People who are going to challenge you I mean if that's also you don't you know a lot of people The wrong person to start a tribe is the guy who just wants to have a bunch of guys to tell him how great he is You know, you have to have you want to set up a group of peers really I mean somebody has to be in charge because that's how the way works But you know you want to set up a group of peers who are going to challenge you and hold you accountable to things and So I think that you really have to find those people who have those values and what behave in that way and also As I said, you're picking your friends So you probably have to have the same sense of humor, you know are comparable sense of humor you have to be able to hang out and And just enjoy each other's company because why would you put all this effort into creating this group of people that you don't even like? Yeah, you know, so that's really important. So Jack, this was your first time speaking at the 21 convention. Yes How has your experience been so far? Oh Really cool. I mean, I wasn't sure exactly what to expect. I mean, it's definitely a different kind of thing that I've spoken at before and now it's been it's been a You know interesting, you know talking to different groups of guys who have read my work or just interested in it awesome so with Before we kind of wrap this up if people want to learn more about you more about your work Where's the best place they can go? My website is a jackdashdownivin.com and I'm a big Instagram guy I don't do Twitter. It makes me angry I feel like it's everything that's wrong with the world So I do do Instagram though because I like pictures and I'd like to follow things that you know inspire me So, you know, my Instagram is the handle is at start the world Brilliant. Okay. So with that you can watch Jack's talk first On 21 university.com or by clicking the link underneath this video Jack. Thanks once again for being here Thank you. So this is be Mike with Jack Donovan signing off for the 21 report. Thank you