 Welcome to the Drum History podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today I'm joined by Bob Henrit, who is a legendary drummer, a writer and most recently the producer of the awesome documentary on Netflix, Count Me In. Bob, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Yeah, you've been on my list for quite some time and I'm very very happy to get you on here. And I just found out as we were talking, you told me, oh, I saw you in the Count Me In documentary and I didn't really realize your serious involvement. I mean, it's your documentary. I just have to say right up the bat that I loved it and I know many people listening really enjoyed it on Netflix. Great. Well, it's been in the works, believe it or not, for 27 years. So when I first joined the King's, I was working on it and then it went away. It was a different film because of course it was 27 years ago. So a lot of people who could have been in it are no longer around to be in it. But it's a labor of love and a bit like writing the book, as you probably know, you know, the reason for writing the book is you want people to know what you are up to, especially your children because there I was touring America incessantly with whatever band and my kids didn't see me. So the so I wrote my my biography on my autobiography, should I say, because I wanted the kids to know where I was, you know, for all those years. Yeah, you know, it's funny you say that I was just thinking about that the other day. I was like, you don't think about it sometimes. But you know, I have a son and it's like, you know, these I thought about with these podcasts. It's like 100 plus hours now of me talking about drums that in 50 years he can listen to. I don't know if he'll want to, but it's I totally get you on that. So we'll maybe talk about more in depth in about Count Me In later, or maybe in the bonus episode, depending on time. But just to just tell everyone, if you haven't seen it, look on Netflix. And it is it's done right. I remember watching it and talking about it on social media. And it's just it's it hit the nail on the head. It feels exactly like it should for a drum documentary. So before we start, I want to give a quick shout out to Matty Roberts, who actually got me connected with you and you've done an interview with him. And he does the percussion discussion, YouTube interviews, which you did one with him, I believe. And he's in Wales, I think. So he got us connected and just a big thank you to Matty for doing that. Yeah. So all right, Bob, what we're here to talk about today. And you are quite the writer, my friend. I mean, I've you sent me some amazing just articles and you could just whip out a great article kind of at will. So one thing you sent over that I had some options. And with a guy like you, you're without a doubt. I hope to have you before we even start back on the show to do more down the road. But our topic today is Desert Island drums. And for people who don't maybe know what that term refers to, it's like the old saying, like you're on a desert island. What's your top three albums you take? Or what's your top three things you take? Probably water and food for most people. But but we're talking about drums. So what would be your drums that you have to have? Because for a guy like you who has you've had a lot of drums. So what are your Desert Island drums? Go go go as in depth as you can. Well, Lance Armstrong hit it on the head when he had a book out called It's Not About the Bike. Now, it's that's that pre preceded everything that happened with it. But, you know, there are there are fantastic drums that don't work in certain situations, and there are awful drums, you know, things that are built in Taiwan or wherever, built somewhere. And they aren't expensive. They aren't at all special, but they work in the studio. So I I began with. It was a super sensitive. It was a Ludwig super sensitive. I'll start from the beginning. And so this would be my number one hit. If you see what I mean. So it started in 1962. I was touring Ireland with a rock and roll singer. And we were going in those days, Ireland was full of ballrooms because people danced and they had showbans, which were really dance bands. And so we would go over there every now and again. So cut to the chase. I am in Dublin and I'm walking around Dublin and I came I came upon a music shop. It was actually a record shop, but I came upon it and I went in and there on the counter was a Ludwig super sensitive. Now, this was 1962, as I said, and we couldn't get American things in in England. Just after the war, which is ostensibly what this was, you couldn't you couldn't buy Fender guitars easily. You couldn't get the Zildjian cymbals and you definitely couldn't get Ludwig drums. So I seized the moment and bought the drum for 50 or the equivalent of 50 pounds and I then had to get it home. Now, if I if I declared it, I would have been paying a great deal more for tax and duty. So I worked out a way of we were going from from Dublin to Northern Ireland across the border and I had the drum underneath the seat and I. We we were we were searched by the customs people who discovered that I had a watch on now underneath me is a is a drum. And this watch, which I probably paid two or three pounds for, took the customs guys attention and he looked at it and he said, is that new? And I said, yeah, but I only paid two quid for it. So they confiscated it, but they didn't see the drum under the seat. We went into into Northern Ireland, which was part of Britain, and I could then legally put the drum in the post back to England. So this was 61 and I used it for everything. It was interestingly enough, but I didn't know what it was. I didn't know much about it because we were we were bereft. We weren't able to see Ludwig stuff because it wasn't allowed in the country unless you smuggled it in. So I used it for everything. I used it for concrete and clay. I used it for just about everything. And in the end, I used it for hold your head up and God gave rock and roll to you. And it was my I think you'd call it my go to drum and got it home. Used it for ages and ages. And it was it was showing where I it was it was such a wonderful drum. But I eventually found out it's provenance. And we went to America first Argent tour 1970. And I thought I had that drum with me. And I thought this is just the right time to take it back to Ludwig in Chicago and and get it fettled, get it looked at. So I took it to Damon North Damon Avenue, handed it over to the to the they had a guy who whose job was to. To resurrect things, really. And interestingly enough, he also tuned up snare drums before they were put in their boxes and sent out to whoever bought them. So that was he had a proper job. And so the next thing that I knew is the guy was telling me about a certain amount of of super sensitive, which were made in brass. Now, I didn't know anything about that and didn't think mine could possibly be that because why would it be? So there were 12 of them made and he took mine away and he came back. You said, I've got some good news for you. You said, this is one of the 12. And he said, thanks for bringing it in because I've never seen one of these. So there I am with a brass super sensitive, which, as I said, I used for everything. Took I took the drum home and open the drum shop and put my drum shop, Henry's drum store and put the the drum in not exactly in the window, but it was around. It wasn't I was I was really hoping nobody was going to sell it. And I went off with Don McLean. So months later, I came back and they said, good news. A German drum shop owner came in and bought everything. I said, what, everything? Yes, all gone. I said, what about my snare drum? He said, well, he took that. So in Germany somewhere, years and years after the event is a real rare bird. And so that's the story of my that that is my favorite drum. How does a drum like that end up in Dublin? You have to wonder, you know what I mean? I mean, it's that's a rare import. I hear what I hear what you're saying, Bart, and I had exactly the same thoughts. But and so guess what? I asked the guy in Ludwig, I said, how did this find its way? So he said, I don't know. And they then told me the story of the export department at Ludwig, which was an atlas on the wall or rather in a bookcase. And if they if they had to send a drum to any country, they would look it up and work out whether they could send it. And that was their export department at one time. So they looked to an atlas of the world and thought, yeah, we could send it there. So anyway, cut to the chase again. He couldn't tell me how it got found its way to Ireland. But he was very pleased to see it. And I had a jolly and ice time when I was in Chicago. I met I met Bill, I met Billy, I mean, I met old Bill, I met old William, perhaps I should call him Billy, Billy, too. And then I met young, young Bill, all the bills. Yeah, lots of bills in there. Yeah. Well, WFL was a bill, of course, of course. Anyway, so I was was doing the Chicago drum fair. And I was booked by Rob Cook to talk on the subject of the British invasion, which is something that I know lots about. So I found my way to Chicago and did my shtick, did my talk. And I then started to sign my book banging on. And so there's a long queue of people, well, a reasonable long queue. And one of the guys came up to me and said, and I talked about the acrolyte that I'd had, that's right. And he said, so have you still got that acrolyte? I said, no, somebody stole it. So I signed his book, he went off and a little, a few minutes later, I saw him back in the queue and he had something behind his back. And he came, I said, have you got another book to sign? He said, no, I've got something for you. And he produced the drum from behind his back, which was guess what, an acrolyte. He said, I decided that I can afford it. So I bought this for you. I said, oh, that's fantastic. And I said, you're very kind. And he said, I just think you should have one. So that arrived. I now had another acrolyte. And I was a little bit embarrassed, but not really embarrassed. But a few years earlier, I'd been doing a gig with Keith Moon. So the who, and I guess it were our two friends. Anyway, we were doing a gig in Rotterdam. And Mooney tried to give me one of his snare drums. And this was, he had special snare drums, which were made by Gretsch. They were walnut. And they looked fantastic. And they had a silver plate on them. And they said, DRB special. And I said, I don't know. I couldn't find out how the super sensitive found his way to Ireland. And I certainly couldn't find out who DRB was. And I assumed it was something to do with Frank Ippolito in New York. And somebody had breathed on it and made this somebody whose initials were presumably DRB. And it was something to do with Frank Ippolito. And I assumed it was something to do with Frank Ippolito in New York. And somebody had breathed on it and made this somebody DRB. Anyway, Mooney had tried to give me one and I said, Keith, I can't take it. And I've been embarrassed. I was embarrassed at the time. And I've been kicking myself ever since. And, of course, that particular drum is... It's somewhere. But it's not mine, which is a great shame. And I would love to have had it. The guy came up with the acrylite which is rather good. That's amazing. And you never found out who DRB is, right? No, you know what? I've had emails by the hundred who is DRB and I don't know. And I've thought of everybody I know in drums in America, especially in New York. And it doesn't make any sense. So nobody knows. It obviously... It's just... I feel like someone took it there. And some guy named Dave or whatever wrote his initials on it. There doesn't need to be some crazy story, I guess. You know? Well, on the other hand, it's a great story. And if we knew the answer, then it wouldn't be quite such a great story. True. It's the mystery that we love about these drums. So you're on an island and that's one of your drums with you there. Yeah. What else would you take on your island? Okay. I was doing a gig in... What the heck was it? In Austin. We were in Austin doing an Argent gig. And we were playing at the... What do we call it? The Armadillo. And I was walking around... I actually take my life in my hands sometimes and I'll walk around places that I shouldn't be. You know? The mind says, well, I'm a musician, nobody's going to attack me. Which, of course, is a big mistake. Yeah. So anyway, I came upon a garage sale. And I'm in a pretty dodgy... I then realized I was walking in of not the greatest part of the city. And when... I thought, I said, garage sale, I might as well have a look what they've got. And they had two drums. One was really beaten up and the other was a WFL marching drum. Nice. So I said to the guy, how much is the marching drum? And he said, you can have it for $5. I said, oh, okay, I'll take it. So I managed to take... bring it in to England without paying any duty because I owned up and told the customs guy, listen, I paid $5 for this. That's all. And he said, well, if somebody's daft enough for $5, then we can't possibly charge you any duty on it. So I would take that because it was a marching drum and if I had to signal to a ship, I could probably do it with s-o-s dot dot dot dash dash dash and dot dot dot. Yeah. So that was another one and I also thought if I can't make the ship stop by playing the drum, maybe I could set fire to it and they'll see the smoke. So that was my rationale. Yeah. So that was another one that came along. That's awesome. Man, I love that you're walking around. It's so cool to me that you are... I mean, you're a famous rock drummer. I mean, you're going around the world playing and you're interested around looking at garage sales trying to find drums, which all of us are. I don't think there's a day that goes by where if I'm in the car and I see a garage sale out the window where I'm just not completely turned around, obviously, let's say my wife is driving or something, I'm completely turned around going, are there drums there? Or stop in at like a thrift shop that you can't take that out of the drummer, the hunt. I must say, but I would rationalize when I was buying another drum set, especially in America, that this would be what one of the kids would like. You know, the kids weren't old enough to have a drum kit, but you know what I'm going with. And then in the end, we had so many drums, I used to say, this is what my wife would want. Right. I would justify it. But to talk that one through, we were playing with the kinks in Binghamton. Binghamton is SUNY, as in State University of New York. Yeah. We were doing a gig in, I guess it was in the gym. And I was walking around, as we said, and I found a mum and pop music shop. So I went in and the guy behind the counter said, yeah, can I help you? I said, I'm looking for drums. He said, well, what we've got is downstairs. So he said, help yourself. And there was a Ringo set. It was exactly right. It was black oyster. And it was exactly the right sizes. And I looked it over and discovered that the only thing it didn't have was the front hoop. So I went back upstairs and said, I like the look of that grey kit. That sort of thing. And the guy said, oh, the Ringo. I said, yes, that's right. The Ringo kit. And he said, well, it's for sale. Do you want it? I said, how much is it? And he said, well, you make me an offer. And he knew I was in the Kings because there are not too many Englishmen wandering around Binghamton. And the Kings were in town doing the gig. So I didn't want to make myself look stupid, but I said, I'll give you 50. Done. So there I am buying a Ringo kit, $50. And he said, I'll put it in a box for you. And he did. And the road crew came and picked it up. And it joined everything going home from America. And that was that. Except when I left, he said, you can have a 50 providing. I can sculpt some tickets. He said, fair enough. How many do you need? He said, you wanted a couple. I said, good. And then on my way out, he took me aside. He said, you know, you could have got it for a lot less. He said, you didn't try hard enough. Yeah, but you're you know, you're the like, the rock drummer in town. There's a little bit of that. Like, you don't want to be like stories would spread like he offered me five bucks for a Ringo set. You know, you, I think you you got obviously you got a killer deal. But oh, absolutely. Yeah. Oh, and the interesting thing is the next shop I went into, which was the next day was a proper drum shop and and they had one they had a hoop and there was the hoop that I needed which I thought I'm never ever going to find and and so I bought it. I guess how much it cost. I don't know. $50. Exactly. Wow. Oh, jeez. So there's no such thing as a free lunch. No. No. Oh my gosh. I mean that the fact that he knew it was a Ringo kit. But oh, right. Yeah. I mean, then you think he'd know the value of it. But I mean, all right. So obviously we all know this is pre internet, but I feel like the internet really kind of had it. Yeah. Had it not been a mom and pop shop, I then, of course, it wouldn't have been $50. That's for sure. What would that have typically what year was that again? Oh, sugar. I was in the Kings. 84 85. What would that set so people know I mean, this is like this is not I don't know. I mean, I feel like values go up and down. But what would you as a collector have, you know, in a normal shop or if you were going to sell that drum set in 84 85 what would you have sold that drum set at as a retail shop cost wise. Oh yeah, at least the grand. Wow. Wow. In in 84. Yeah. Man, that's you got that is like that's the the hunt that gets us all so excited is that find of like I always equate it to like opening a hat box at a garage sale and finding like a black beauty in it or something you know exactly exactly. Wow, that's so I mean the interesting I mean we drummers we like that that's what we do and we talk to one another about it. I don't think other instrumentalists that you know I'm talking about have quite the same mindset. I'm guessing and I'm I'm guessing that you and I if we wanted to debate the merits of a screw or a nut and bolt or no pun intended by the way, a nut and bolt, we would and we could and we could probably sit down and talk about a Gresh throw off for half an hour. If we if we wanted to absolutely. I mean that's just the beauty of it and I've had that at I mean really at the Chicago drum show and some of these other shows where you just have the and if if I don't know something or if I'm just talking to someone else who might not know a certain history thing that somehow I know and they don't it's the beauty of like like I can talk to you one of the most you know acclaimed collectors and drummers in the world and we're just having a good time there's no I like that with drummers there's never any talking down or you don't know that which I don't think other instruments do that it's not us it's not our thing no no we want to we want to teach it and and and spread it on so alright so while we're talking about this I just think it's so cool too that you're just collecting these drums while you're while you're on the road did you ever have a limit that was like they're like Bob okay stop we can't take any more drums back with us or did you kind of have freedom no did you think that it would have happened but it never did but I mean there was I am sensible and you know I always felt that one was enough and that was the reason why I went into Frank Ippolitos in New York and there was a camco and I'll describe it it was in red lacquer with gold fittings and red Evans heads on its see-through I mean it was just fantastic and my my MX card was burning a hole in my pocket and I thought I should buy this and in the end back to what you were saying I'd already bought one that tour so I thought I think I'll come I'm getting close to the edge here so I'll pass on this one and another and so that of course as as we know there's always one that gets away and I was in Frank Ippolitos and didn't buy that but the next time I was in a shop in Kansas City Kansas and it was Explorers was the drum shop I went into Explorers and I think the guy's name was Gary Boyle which was the same name as a guitarist in England and we chatted and he immediately started talking about Heyman drums I said I'm surprised that you know anything about Heyman drums because Heyman drums were predicated on Campco or more specifically on George Way drums sure the turret lug with the round casings and everything so anyway I said so having spoken about Heyman I discovered an acrolyte and it was like no acrolyte I'd ever seen before and instead of having a 45 degree flange inside it actually had a rollover flange and there were great plates behind the nut boxes so there were plates inside which held the nut boxes on and I just didn't get it because I just didn't understand the drum and of course the reason I didn't understand it was very very early it had an interim badge on it, Keystone and that's one that I shouldn't have passed on but that's the way it goes so I didn't buy that and now I've got another one and that's it really You'll remember that for the rest of your life basically these drums you just missed you know I've got another story about St. Louis I can't remember the name of the guy but he didn't have a drum shop he had a drum house so we were playing in St. Louis so having gone up the arch and thought what am I going to do now I took a cab out to this guy's drum shop which turned out to be so far away that I began to get scared I thought I'm not going to be buying any drums here because it's all going to go in a cab fare so I negotiated with the cabbie how much is it going to be round trip and he told me I went into the drum house and I never got off this bike there were drums up and down the stairs there were drums in the kitchen there were drums in the bedrooms and I'm walking around somebody's house where all these drums are and at the time I was there looking for a radio king and I just didn't like the look of the one that they had so I said I'm going to pass anyway I got the cab back to the hotel who owned the drum house called and said what did you think I said I was very pleased to see your shop but you didn't have what I'm looking for and he said didn't you see any duplex I said I didn't know much about duplex so I said well no I know you had a duplex but I don't know anything about them it's called the spirit of St. Louis and that's because that's where the flight began across the Atlantic with Lindbergh anyway he said you really should buy one of these duplex I said well how much is it going to be because I would by then be buying it sight unseen and he said well you can have it for one and a quarter and I thought I immediately actually I think he said two and a quarter and I said well the problem is that two and a quarter I'll be paying a lot of duty on it and it won't work for me I said 2,500 or whatever is more money than I want to pay for it and pay the duty on he said no 250 it was 250 so I said I've got to buy it so I bought it I had, I don't know if I told you I had 35 drum kits up in my loft in my old house and I thought the roof was going to fall and there were 55 snare drums so I had more drums than you could shake a stick out unintended and so I bought that one back home and eventually I decided I had too many drums and I should get rid of them so I got a drummer by a round he bought them and they I felt selfish to tell you the truth and I thought I've got too many bloody drums here nobody's seeing them because there's so many you can't get up into the loft and eventually Ludias came from Supreme Drums came around bought them all and they were off my hands every time I go to a trade show to a fair like the one in Chicago I see something that I once owned so it's found its way back into the food chain as it were that has to be a funny feeling that you've collected so many drums that you go somewhere and it's like your children they've spread around the world and they're now in different drum shops it's like collateral it is there's a drum fair coming up next month or the month after in Coventry to which I am going and I'll see some of the stuff there and Alan Buckley who you may have heard of some of my stuff found its way to Alan he's known as Sir Alan Buckley and he has all of his drums in an outhouse an outbuilding in the dark because there's too many bloody drums in there so that's even worse than me but at least his ceiling's not going to fall down yeah I mean I've had like Mike Carrotto on the show who has 650 snare drums and stuff and I mean there's I think we all think man that's awesome we don't think like wow this guy this guy has a problem he needs help no we think man what a lucky guy to walk through his house and have all these drums but I think it's it's just fun to collect them and sell them and buy them do you typically just you sound like you go both ways where you buy and you sell I know there's a lot of people who just buy well between us you know there is a fine line with having too much I think because there's the selfishness of it comes into it and I would frankly rather these things were out there in the wide world I could never subscribe to that whole thing where James Bond goes into somewhere into a guy's museum in somewhere in Japan and he discovers all these stolen paintings on the wall and I could never subscribe to that because nobody's seeing them so for me it's the sharing that counts that's a great point I think there was a story of the guy who way back in history stole the Mona Lisa and I think it was hiding under his mattress he was like a janitor who stole the Mona Lisa and it's like these things are meant to be seen that's why they were painted exactly and I get though the desire to buy them it's like getting a new snare drum for me it's like I get this rush of like yes I got it you know a month later I still play it but you need another one you're looking you're on to the next one right well yeah I mean there is a certain element of drinking it in if you see what I mean sure and interestingly enough not as we said right at the beginning not all drums sound great just because it's it's old I mean when I first went to America nobody was collecting drums they were collecting guitars but they weren't collecting drums and this was this was the late sixties and they were just old drums and people wanted new and shiny and groovy man and they weren't interested in something that was old they wanted a new thing a new shiny thing like their shiny bike and everything hmm yeah you know okay and so I agree completely I mean that seems to be the sentiment with a lot of these episodes is it was before my time but collectors would say oh man you could get Ludwigs and late eighties early nineties for nothing and they all wish that they bought them up yeah but you know so alright I'm looking back at what you sent over here just at some some more of the Desert Island stories so I see one here that uh what is it Fipos explain that yeah okay okay it's got the SH1T word in it at the end and it's a far eastern piece of SH1T so they're known as Fipos and so and why I wrote it in is that I had the cheapest possible drum which I'd seen being made in the middle of a paddy field in Taiwan when I was there and what happens is that the children come home from school they have their food and they then go into the factory and work making drums or snap on tools or whatever they're whatever they're asked to make so um it just goes to show these things are just put together there's no real expertise they're just not some bolts and for some reason they sound good rather in the way that an acrylite sounds good yeah so I mean I would agree completely I've had a handful of like the Japanese sets from you know the 70s or 60s and I like them and I think the snare drums hold a special place in people's hearts like the apollos and the stars and all that there's something about that poplar kind of wood that's um you know very very nice well without doing them down but it's predicated on if it's a bit like a bicycle they can make it yeah yeah I mean it's just manufacturing and of course drums are very much like bicycles yeah absolutely it's just some hard work when I was involved with Arbitra I've gone a bit off course here when I was involved with Arbitra I got a phone call from a guy in the midwest who said I really like your flats kit would you think you could adapt it to fit on a bike I said why would you want to put a drum kit on a bike and he said because I'm going to south America from the midwest on a bike with the whole band and what's going to happen we're going to get to the gig and we're going to let the audience ride the bikes so that they produce some electricity and your drum kit will be inserted into my bike so by manipulation it can be a drum kit I said what a great idea and he said do you want to come I said how long you gone for and he said three years I said I don't think I've got three years and I don't know if he ever got there but I've always hoped that he did so that was another use for a drum kit I mean you must you remember the flats kit they're flat yeah I know exactly what you're talking about right it was an Arbiter product and it was single screw tuning like the Arbiter AT well anyway he was going to mount it to his bicycle and I hope he made it and God willing he made it yeah what a hell of an endeavor but man three years I've got another one there was this guy who came into drum store he came from up north of England and what he did for a living was he went to the east coast of America hired a Winnebago or something and hit all the mum and pop shops music shops looking for guitars and so he'd find rick and bags he'd find everything he'd find treasure trove because there was a lot of era when people wanted new and they didn't want old they didn't want a blemish on it and eventually he realized he had some room in the Winnebago so he thought I could put some drums there so he discovered some drums and he came in and there was a WFL in blue sparkle with a 13 inch piccolo snare drum with it and with beer tap throw off on it and he said he said are you interested I said well maybe and he we came to an agreement and I bought it and John Coughlin from status quo came in and John said what's that? I said it's a WFL he said oh it's great how much is it can I have it? I said yes you can have it we'll have to work out how much you're going to pay so he took it away and he lived on the Isle of Man and he took it away and years later what seemed like years later I said have you still got that WFL kit John when I bumped into it oh I interviewed him that's right he said yeah I said where is it he said it's in my barn I said have you used it? he said never I said you don't need it anymore do you he said no I said do you want to swap it and he said yeah go on then so I swapped it for a Yamaha snare drum so it then found its way back again into the food chain and a guy from Ireland in one of the famous Irish bands bought it and so it found its way out there again wow man it's just I like how you sit back in the food chain because it's so true it's like it's like a car it's like a barn find that you always hear about that literally is a barn find it belongs in the food chain you know getting passed along and traded played it's the way it's meant to be yeah I think so yeah but it's interesting too I mean it's not that I'm not into guitars because while I was working with Arbiter I used to see a lot of the Fender guys who came over from the west coast Arbiter was the concessionaire so he was distributing them and these guys would talk about Fender guitars so I learned an awful lot about Fender guitars and I've sort of stored it in the back of my mind I've just written something I thought I was gilding the lily with you so I didn't send you everything but I've just written something called famous guitars I've sat behind so of course the drum is always at the back looking at the back of the guitar and sometimes there's a left handed person so there's a gap to look through but often there isn't and so I started writing about everything that I ever sat behind which turns out to be an awful lot. That's fascinating I think you've got a great mind for looking at interesting topics and I think that in the podcast format I try to go along those lines of how can we look at something a little different and pull an hour long episode out of it and so I think we're all cut from the same cloth. This episode is brought to you by Dream Symbols Dream Symbols is launching the tasting tour 2021. There's going to be tons of cool symbols members of the Dream team on site and the recycling program will be in effect all day at these various awesome music stores around the country October 2nd they'll be at Forks Drum Closet in Nashville October 9th Melody Music in Bloomington, Indiana October 16th Rhythm Traders at Portland, Oregon and November 6th they'll be at Rupp Strums in Denver, Colorado so go out and check it out if Dream will be in your town now I'm looking at your story you sent over here and I see an interesting one that I want to talk about which was the Tricksson snare drum that you acquired which unfortunately faced a bit of a sad demise but why don't you tell us about that drum? Okay, what happened I I was an endorser for Tricksson. Tricksson were made in Germany in Hamburg and every now and again I went over there to see them but they there was they asked me to be an endorser and of course I was flattered and I'd already had a Tricksson kit that I was using with Adam Faith but they decided they would give me another one so I said can I ask you can you make it so it's Imperial size rather than metric size because the problem was you couldn't get drum heads for a metric size metric size that's to say something measured in centimeters rather than in inches so believe it or don't and I still can't understand why they did it they actually decided they were going to turn their drums into Imperial sizes which were inches so that's where I began with Tricksson and I was in a shop called City which interestingly enough belonged to Ivor Arbiter and I was in the shop and Brian Bennett from The Shadows and various other bands decided I think he didn't have his he didn't have his endorsement with the Tricksson anymore I think he was with Ludwig by then so he bought this drum in and it sort of immediately went along the counter and ended up with me and Brian had used it for all sorts of Cliff Richard in The Shadows records and it had a great sound and so I was very pleased to get it unfortunately it was there was a van crash or a bus crash come to think of it and everything slid down onto onto the guy who was on the backseat sleeping and it killed him unfortunately it was terrible bad luck it was the edge of a guitar case broke it broke one of his ribs and put it into into his lung unfortunately but the drum was broken as were several cymbals which were turned outside inside out and I have to say not in a good way they were turned inside out in a bad way so that was one Tricksson kit and eventually I bought a speedfire and that's the squashed bass drum and immediately people wanted to hire it they wanted to hire it from me I also bought a Ludwig Pistolite for the same reason this drum was very interesting because it looked great and it was perfect for videos and I'll end there I also have just bought out a new version of it which has got double headed tomtoms that really works and I've played that one and that really really works it's got somehow the 50 years in between it and the latest one they've got the technology together to do it so that was my involvement with Tricksson I think the new stuff is really going back with being the distributor and all that but I think they look really really cool it's interesting though to look at some comments online I've seen some people playing them and people look at it and go who don't really know the history and of course there's I mean it's a bold Tricksson has always been a bold design company Tricksson slash Vox and some people don't get it it's a dolly-esque yes it is it's like the clocks or the watches the melted watches very neat and the interesting thing is that it shouldn't work and neither should the tail star the tail star I mean drums are predicated on being in a tube and the tube has to have equal size and it's all modeled these days on the organ a church organ which has got which is a cylinder albeit a very long one so it shouldn't work and in some cases it doesn't yeah now but you know you don't know if you don't try I think it's neat too have you ever heard of art history maybe I mean what do you mean art history it's an egg shaped drum yeah okay I think it stands on whatever that part of the egg is called the smaller dome as it were and there's a shop up in Sheffield that has one now I have been all over the internet trying to find out more about it and it's as if to tell you the truth part is if I'm the only person who's ever seen it and it really is weird and it looks like a science project what you guys would call a science project and it it seems to me that it comes it comes from Kansas City I don't know why or from somewhere from Zico's it looks just like that sort of thing yeah I think that was a was it milestone so I'm gonna I'll email you an episode I did with West Faulkner from explorers about Zico's drums and he talks about those and that's exactly what I'm thinking of so yeah it is connected I'm glad you've told me because I thought it was just me and I thought maybe it's a bad dream or a dream or whatever I can't even tell you there's a photograph of me with one I can't even tell you if they sounded any good because they were just too big to do things with if you see what I mean you couldn't hold one in your arms and play it with the other hand that wasn't possible yeah there's some things where maybe they were you know they're fun to have in your like drum room but you're not gonna want to go on a you know international tour around the world it's a cool concept though for sure yes it looks good and the new one because I've played it and been part of the deal it actually sounds rather good but that doesn't do away with the fact that you've got to find a very weird case for the bass drum yeah absolutely and gosh it's actually I'm kind of as we're talking trying to do a little googling here and it's very hard to find them I remember when we did that episode that Wes kind of sent me in the right direction so if people want to learn more about that they can check out that one because it's I believe and I'll double check this but I believe what happened was Ziko sold the name but wanted to keep making drums and was doing something and I think that's where those came from but I'll double check that man it's there's so many cool little stories out there that unless we talk to guys like you they might get lost to history so I think it's exactly there is a certain amount of Chinese whispers going on you know somebody tells somebody something who somebody else and by the time it gets back to the original guy it's completely changed and I know there are people out there who know more about me than I do and are prepared to fight me to get them to get their thought across yeah I mean that's well there's also a lot of people who think they know more than everyone but I try to stay out of all all of that I was reading something yesterday and I thought the danger is to go into battle and say listen you're wrong man yeah because that's but I mean it's free country and you have everybody has their views on something yeah absolutely now I mean this is just awesome so alright so if you had let's say alright you're on the ship the ship has crashed every single drum set you've ever owned is on there for some odd reason it's going down you gotta save one that you're gonna swim to your desert island with out of everything you've ever owned let's say drum set um or snare drum whatever but just what is your number one drum yeah I can help you there it would be the one that got away it would be the one that was in the red camco shop I neglected to tell you that's the red camco was $700 in 1970 now I've tried to work out how much that would be in pounds now or even then but I mean it wasn't expensive and it was just fabulous and I didn't buy it it was five drums it was everything everything I needed so that one would be nice to resurrect snare drum wise the super sensitive the brass one would be the one to have sure you know I find it I don't want to say psychologically interesting that they're both drums that got away you know what I mean and I feel the same way there's something to that where it's like you know there's just it's a beautiful thing you kind of idolize these drums that you can't have and you want them but I like that I'd probably be the same way where I'd go oh man that drum set was just perfect why did I sell that or why did I get rid of that there is a reason for that you have to sell one to move on especially at the beginning of your career I mean all that stuff that we had in the very early 60s it would find its way into a drum shop and I would come away with another drum yeah swap it yeah I think of my very very very first drum set was just like most people just a toy kind of a percussion plus kit with bass drum and a snare and one tom no floor no hi-hat just a cheap crash do I if I got it back would I do anything with it no would it but I think about that sometimes why did I get rid of that I sold it for like 70 bucks or something as a kid like you know I'd rather have the drums but alright so as we kind of wrap up here what are you playing at the moment right now what are your current drums you're using yeah I well as I said I no longer have 35 drum kits which is good I have my son's got a Heyman kit that he uses I've got several several I've got an Arbitra AT kit which I felt I should have because I put so much work into I was charging around America with two AT drums in the back of the car all on my own you know it was real grown up stuff and prior to that I've been to prior to doing that stuff I'd always been following a tour manager through airports who would tell me where to go it hold his hand up and that was the sum total of my of my necessity to be on the road so I would be following someone but I've been with Maypex when I did my trip to to Taiwan I had a conversation with Maypex and they took me to lunch and this proves there's no such thing as a free lunch and they were telling me that they had this new drum kit coming out I said oh great I'm looking forward to that and they said what did I think of the name Cutlass or what did I think of the name of the other one they had sword or something one of those Cimetal and I said well all the very all the most successful drum kits in America at least had the maker's name on them and I said I think that's what you should be doing I said I don't think you need to call it Cutlass I think that that's a bad thing so they called it Maypex so I saved I think I saved them really because I don't think anybody would have taken Cutlass it's a bit like jugs isn't it I mean if you were a 14 year old kid you would buy a jugs drum kit or when they were available simply because you would be able to boast to your pals about it but I doubt you could boast to your pals about a drum kit called Cutlass now and here in America there's a car called Cutlass that people I think Cutlass was taken by the Cutlass Supreme which is like it was a name for a car wasn't it absolutely yeah and the Arbiter we've talked about it a little bit I did with Jeff Nichols in this previous episode but I think Ivor Arbiter is such a you know maybe he needs a biography episode he seems to have such an interesting background without offering myself I'm the man the reason I got involved with Arbiter AT the advanced tuning system is I was writing I was autobiography I'm calling it an autobiography because he was telling me what to write so a lot of that work is done and the new book when it comes out which is God willing I'm touching wood here it's going to be soon it's called Crash Bang Wallop and it details everything that ever happened with drums in the UK including Heyman of course and all the things that Ivor had been responsible for wow so there is something that once it comes out I'm sure you'll be able to lift if you want and please come back and we'll do an episode on all that and I mean you're the kind of guy where it's like similar to Rob Cook where I would absolutely love to have you on the show multiple times to cover some of your different articles and things and your immense knowledge because we can just pick one and go down the rabbit hole but yeah so this has just been awesome and I think if Bob if you have a little bit of time what I'd love to do is you can do the today's bonus episode which is for people on Patreon where they can contribute a couple bucks by going to DrumistoryPodcast.com and there's a button there to click but I'd love to hear there we can hop over and talk about your awesome new documentary Count Me In which I just thoroughly enjoyed and I somehow from doing research and getting ready for this interview like I said I knew you were in it I'll talk about that but I really didn't realize your level of involvement of being the producer which is obviously pretty... Yeah it was a lot of work but I mean it started out as I said in 1987 when I began to do it and it for all sorts of reasons it didn't come out and also I don't think anybody was spending money on anything at the time and it was I wanted to do and maybe one day this will come out I wanted to do a much broader thing on the drum itself and how we used to use it in battle and we used it for signaling in the battle now how could that be? We've got all these cannons going off around shouting and bashing of savers together and I thought it was it would be great to go into that and there's a story about Napoleon and Napoleon is at the Battle of Waterloo of course and somebody has captured a drummer boy who's probably 10 years or 11 years old and they're about to shoot him as a spy and the guy kicks up a fuss and says I'm not a spy I'm a drummer so he didn't have his drum with him so Napoleon said well if you're a drummer play the command to advance and he went into which is the command to advance but certainly for your army and our army and they said right play the command to retreat and the drummer boy said no such command in the British army and Napoleon laughed because there isn't and the guy the kid walked off but it was so I wanted to write about those things and about the fact that it's it's uncool to shoot a drummer boy in a war it's bad for so it's as if they had the chance to not get killed they had to get out of jail free card so all of those sort of things I'm interested in writing about because as you said right at the beginning there's a lot more drums than meets the eye it's a very interesting subject it is how it worked and the whole signalling with the drum because we touched on that I suppose if I had my WFL with me on my desert island I would play dad you'd be playing retreat like get me off this damn island I need to retreat off the island yeah so yeah thank you again to Maddie Roberts for connecting us I just think it's awesome and people can find his percussion discussion episodes you can find them on YouTube at North Wales Drum Promotions is his YouTube channel at North Wales Drum Promotions and everyone can look forward to I'm sure we'll have Bob back in the next couple of months because he is quite an inventor as well which real quick Bob why don't you just tell us some of the inventions so we can look forward to hearing about a more in depth in a future episode okay well like everybody in the 70s I had rototoms but the rototom could do more of course you could tune it up by by messing around by turning the head but you couldn't you couldn't play anything because you only had one hand to hit with so I invented a foot pedal which turned well according to Remo it turned it into a musical instrument where it hadn't been so I was very pleased with that so that's one of them I invented an electronic drum called hum drum believe it or not it was in Tupperware so I'm sure everybody knows what Tupperware is I hope anyway so it looked right from the word go so that was another one I have a piece of string with a strong string and it has a key on the other end a drum key and there's a knot for how high the stool is there's a knot for how high the snare drum is there's a knot for how high the toms are and the ride cymbal and the crash cymbal so it's that long a piece of string and so the knot signify how to set up anybody's drum kit and Matty and I were talking about that because he saw me using it he said I was just so impressed because it's so simple you feel kit sharing you know you could change the you could change the heights and make it playable for you within milliseconds so that's that's another one that I invented I invented the threaded drum key I saw something from modern drummer this week about drum keys of the it seems to be drum keys of the stars but they've missed out on the idea of having a thread inside the square bit that goes on top of your cymbal stand so it's always there so I invented that for for Zildjum and then the schism began and it found its way to it found its way to saviour and now it's found its way to Evans I'm not sure how that works but of course patents don't last forever I love the string I mean that's just genius it kind of reminds me of like how you like people in their garage will have a string coming down with a tennis ball and when the tennis ball touches your window they know to stop their car it kind of reminds me of that where it's like it's an easy simple way to just set up and that's just awesome well I'd like to make a fortune from it but it's only a piece of string and how long is a piece of string I mean I don't know I can't I don't know if you can patent a piece of string unfortunately well interestingly enough I've explored drum patents it's really you need an afternoon but you find out things that that you didn't know that the double foot pedal was so long ago that it you can't believe it and things like there's a piece of a piece of cable that goes from your hi-hat around your your stall and back to the bass drum on the right hand side means that it can't go forward and somebody's got a patent on that somebody's equally got a patent on a drum machine or an electronic drum kit that you power pedaling so you're sitting on on a bike and you're pedaling it to make the electricity so that you can practice the problem is your feet are out of the equation yeah it's like an old sewing machine or something I guess yeah like the old single yeah man we need to do an episode on wacky drum inventions which I don't think there's I think it's awesome just to come up with something and put out in the world and for everyone who actually literally went through the process of creating a patent I mean that takes money and time so more power to them well you could get you can get a patent on anything for a thousand dollars and it doesn't it doesn't seem to matter whether somebody who has already got a patent on it I mean unless it's really really the same yeah if you if you deviate a little bit you could you probably get away with it man that's funny okay well Bob is there anything where you want to like direct people to a website or somewhere where they can look and several books out there that there's the the complete Simmons drum book which was the first book that I wrote I don't know you probably wouldn't know this but I started out writing for a magazine called beat instrumental and then moved from beat instrumental to international musician which was available in America and then I moved to melody maker and so I've been hanging around that sort of part of the the music world for years and years and I really like it it's good fun and and I get to learn things that I wouldn't otherwise yeah I mean that's it you know you and I discuss that you've got to write these things down otherwise they'll get lost or talk about them on a podcast such as this um yeah cool well and again like I said everyone check out count me in on Netflix which I'm excited to learn more about from Bob here momentarily on the bonus episode so anyway on that note Bob thank you so much for sharing all this information and I think I think it'd be cool maybe other people can send me a message and I'll share them online so find me on social media and send me what your desert drums would be maybe leave it at about three of them and I'll share it I'll share it with Bob too because I think he'll get a kick out of seeing that and yeah so send me your stuff find me on social media most people probably follow me there's a pretty you know big group of drummers who meet on the drum history podcast social media so send me your desert island drums and we'll talk about it later but yeah thank you Bob for being here this has just been an absolute pleasure very welcome Bob I really enjoyed it but I need a cup of coffee now as probably you do all right thank you Bob okay man we'll talk if you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history and please share rate and leave a review and let me know topics that you would like to learn about in the future until next time keep on learning