 and unfortunately I'm moving here. So actually we'll have two sessions at the end of the class, just an update. So obviously we'll have to finish that. Yeah, thank you very much. Hi, good afternoon. My name is Iyali Al-Rabin. I'm from the Open University of Israel. I'm a Gojian alumni. And I will read from the text because English is my second language. And I follow and I speak slower because we have more time now. And it's highly connected to your talk. So it's a very blessed, the one that has been the previous one. So this is kind of an introduction to what I'm going to speak about. So the year 2022 concludes the decade of MOOCs, massive open online courses. And given the great popularity of these courses, attracting more than 220 million users in home, is it too loud? It's just for me, all right? In more than 900,000 courses around the globe, I would like to ask in this short presentation how the spread of MOOCs affected the relationship between higher education system and the open education resource providers. I will try to deal with this question by using the analytical tool for understanding the impact of digital innovation on the business models of organization in the higher education sector. And by critically examining the two common narratives of replacement and disruption that was highly popular when MOOCs were introduced. The examination of the model will be done. I will put it off because for me, it's too noisy, yeah? I don't know why. Yeah, so you speak normally, or you're quiet with the problem of the state, and she's not. I'm used to speaking with you loud. Yeah, probably. It's too noisy, I give myself up. What I'm going to do is try to examine the model by the case study of the Campuse-L. Campuse-L is the Israeli national energy team for digital learning. So I'm trying to look at what happened. This Campuse-L, through the last 10 years, and the changes that have been done at the business models of universities, compares to all yours. Yeah, in 2022, the program, in 2022, I published with my two BG supervisors, Professor Loma Karman and Professor Marco Katz, a paper that we've worked on since around 2018. I've published that the Open Learning, the Journal of Open Distance, and E-Learning, that we named the Cathedral Ivory, that's why I think it's connected to what we're talking about, the Cathedral Ivory Tower and the Open Educational Bazaar, catalyzing innovation in the eye-education sector. At that time, the emergence of MOOCs movement and the evolution was accompanied by many speculation that look at MOOCs, that look at MOOCs with digital disruptive innovation. Disruptive innovation is a product or a service that takes over the market. By disrupting the market's traditional business model, it's like Netflix disrupts the growth of the model. All right, so we are looking at MOOCs in the same way as MOOCs made, that we've done to the blockbuster and asked if it has the same effect on the higher education institution. It was speculated at that time that MOOCs and the Open Learning learning materials in general would disrupt the business model of traditional investment. It's important to note that almost every race of new technology is accompanied by the prediction about the disappearance of previous technology. That's what happened when television was introduced. So there were predictions about the death of the cinema. When the internet was introduced, there were predictions about the death of the television. And those three recommendations were about, first of all, the replacement narrative, the idea that MOOCs will, as a free service, promote open use of open educational resources will transform the educational system and replace most of the higher education institutions as a year of the replacement narrative. And the replacement narrative was based on the second speculation about zero marginal cost of digital educational products and the idea that education will be for free. The third speculation was that MOOCs will derive the unbundling of the higher education system into separate entities, each performed on some of the rules that performed by higher education institutions, such as research, teaching, and education. The three speculations were based on the assumption that MOOCs movement will enter the basic business model of higher education system. So just a few more questions in business model because maybe all of you are familiar with the way that we are using the idea of business model. So business models are analytical tools that destroy the essential of organization using a small number of components which allows one to summarize the whole activity of the organization by describing the components that exist in it. And in ever comparisons between organizations, the same sector and between organizations in different sectors. For example, if you are looking at the higher education system, there are many business models that are suggested and we can compare between campus-based universities and distant teaching universities. In the original paper that we published at 2020 and mentioned before, we compared the business model of the higher education sector to the software sector using the metaphor of the cathedral and Bazaar that proposed by Reymond in 1999. So if you're not familiar with it, go and read this book, it's a great book, short article as well, it's a bit online. Aaron Reymond, what he has done in his book, suggested the metaphor that contrasts traditional commercial software, the cathedral, which opens up software development, the Bazaar. We borrowed this metaphor and allow just this relationship with the relationship between particular type business model of traditional higher education between the universities and Bazaar type business models in open education, like open educational resource publishers. How can this metaphor of the cathedral and the Bazaar can help us to analyze the business model of the higher education system? For the sake of the assertion and due to the limitation of time, I mean, look only at the customer value compensation, the CBP, and we look at research universities as archetype of the critique model. And as opposed, we look at MOOCs as an archetype of the Bazaar. In traditional universities that operate these categories, the students get structured, certified curricula and studying clearly defined degree-awarding programs. On the other hand, in MOOCs that operate as Bazaar, the learners have extensive freedom in choosing the learning materials based of their preference goals and needs. Using this analytical tool of business models, we go to the conclusion about the mutual dependence between the organization. The Bazaar-like organization depends on the category for the creation and production of learning resources. And at the same time, Bazaar-like organization have a central role in the ecosystem of higher education sector. So there is mutual dependence. I will skip that and then move into the current research. So to check the validation of this model, check the validation of the prediction that MOOCs would want to replace the universities, but rather there will be a mutual interaction between the two constructs. I studied the, I studied how Israel can study and I investigated the rule of campus AI and Bazaar, the National Initiative for Digital Learning and the biggest MOOC provider in Israel. Campus AI was established seven years ago as an ecosystem and open options for conducting online courses that does to push the Israeli government forward, become a digital government, accelerate financial growth, and close social and digital gaps. By using MOOCs and other forms of online learning, campus AI allowed wide audience to develop and advance the lifelong learning skills. It's offered over 400 open and free digital courses in Hebrew, Arabic, and English, and served over 700,000 registered learners. In this analysis, it looks specifically at the academic segment, although there are other segments website, the study aims to explore the relationship between the Israeli universities, the cathedrals, which provide the knowledge of the expert to create the MOOCs, and campus AI and Bazaar that produce and distribute the courses. Those enabling the spread of knowledge that was locked in the ivory tower before the invention of MOOCs. The current process is a work in progress. I started it a few months ago. What I'm doing is that I'm using a qualitative method of some structure interviews with stakeholders, such as campus like LCO with several consultants, academic expert, school developer, et cetera. And the main thing that I try to do is to answer the question, how the spread of MOOCs affected the relationship between higher education institution and open education resource provider. During that interview, I took into account of course the effects of COVID-19 on online learning and lifelong learning. There's a lot of effect. And I have to say one ethical disclaimer that I don't work with campus AI here, but I have many interfaces with them because I do research about the data. I produce the course for them and other stuff. So some initial findings from the interviews that I have done and that I'm analyzing now. So what you can see from the interviews is that the bizarre didn't represent the team but this is one important thing. So the place with nothing that flew before was not correct as we predicted. The university is ending, I know, hasn't been closed. And after the lockdown due to COVID-19, the student came back to the campus. But at the same time, the academic ecosystem evolved and become richer. A new ecosystem was created to which campus AI was integrated and several academic institutions have been education and technology centers with the expert in creating MOOCs with campus AI. New forms of academic courses have been created for example short academic courses, MOOCs, a component in academic courses, academic courses for general public, and MOOCs to do best preparation for university entrance examinations and several results. So to conclude my very beginning of this research, we see an evaluation and not a revolution. So as it has been in the software sector, the open education source software didn't replace companies like Microsoft and IBM. We can see also MOOCs open educational sources didn't replace universities but had a mutual interaction between the two centers. That's it. Thank you. Thank you very much. We've got lots of saying that. She wants us to do something. So, Charles Severance, the last slide I had. So he is a professor at University of Michigan. So I mean, he has those things, all sorts of things online with MOOCs. I mean, Coursera, so he puts all of his stuff out there and that seems to, I mean, it wouldn't dissuade me from wanting to sign up and be in his classroom and be able to talk to him and hang out with him and all of that. So it's interesting, but it also kind of leads toward a flipped classroom. I've noticed like the fact that I have MOOCs available means I can ask students to watch the lecture at home and then we can come into class and do stuff together. So for sure. And one of the courses that I'm teaching is about how to develop MOOCs. So my student, I started on the side of that at the end of the course, creating MOOCs. And one part of the course is that I send them to a course at campus again. It's called, his name, MOOC or MOOC, MOOC about MOOCs. So in this MOOC, they are learning how to create MOOCs. So I'm using that, coming from the Columbia University, but ideally those open source or the back. There's a mutual piece of enrichment that's MOOC created into the, into the curriculum instead of just for the first time. Other, I'm going to tell you about from a vocational school in Atlanta, I'm interested in exploring the possibilities of open learning. And how, I was interested in my business model. Yeah. That's when we talk about open learning. It's assumed to be all free. And how is your interest in finance? Is it the MOOC whose students are learned to pay for attending MOOCs? So when I, so it's a great question to say two things about it. But when we are talking about this, this is more than, it's not a monitoring model. So it's not how we are financing that, but rather how we are looking, how we analyze the universities. That's one, the one from the campus here is the governmental service. So the government is a monetizing, we pay for, when we get into the, how do you do it? But he's paying to the universities in order to develop the courses. And afterwards the courses are coming free to the public. So the government, the finance is for the government. It's public money. The university get it, develop the course and then open it. We have some, the universities now but if you are, if you'd like to come to the university and using the S&T exam, you're familiar with that, right? It's kind of an exam that you are doing in order to get into the university. So today you can take two MOOCs, pass them. If you pass them, you don't need to have an S&T for example. So we have this kind of a model display. So the different monetarized models how to make money out of that. But the university doesn't, don't pay for the MOOCs are open to the public. Because, so your government, you say a government in Spain for the government is coming with the courses. Yeah. In the Netherlands, the students are, we as a school are paid for the amount of the students that come to us. It's different. You're paying for this, for the government? We, we in the government, every twice a year how many students are attending our courses. And the government is paying us based on the amount of students, not based on the amount of courses we are offering. So it's a different kind of. I separately, in the university, my university work is the same. So I pay some attention to this. And the government gives some, the university with iPhone to talk about the open courses. About the MOOCs. MOOCs are separate, they are sitting on a different platform not related to my or other university, some of the government, that's it. And that's why it's for free. Yeah, so a separate thing between the university how they are making money of pension fees and from the government. And MOOCs, it's a composite that is open to the public, in general. There's other, like it is, they can make money about it. We won't be able to do it because it's open to the public. There we go. Thank you. I'm quite interested in the business models side of things. And I'll actually be speaking the very same spot as you in 24 hours time in this room about some of the work that we did in the non-core project. When you look into the kind of the literature around business models, it's almost always framed from this kind of competition perspective. So you kind of, you know, which kind of makes sense because the whole history of looking at business models is for business and they wanna, you know, they're working in a kind of competitive environment. But do you find that this is a sort of a problem sometimes when we're talking about open education, which is a more collaborative paradigm a lot of the time. And just how did you deal with that when you're kind of conceptualizing this stuff? I used it as a comparison to an officer competition. So I'm less interested about, or I said, I said it differently. So I used it as a smaller, you know, the perfect institution and so we trained different players for the field. And so it's less important for me the competition by itself. But I think that when, 10 years ago when we spoke about the replacement narrative, the main idea was about the competition. Okay, every person, they are going to compete with the MOOCs, OTRs, et cetera. And once we formed them, and I think that now that we have the historical perspective, you can see that it wasn't the competition, but collaboration. And I think that in this collaboration, everyone explained, right? In this place, you're thinking about how to make more, more and more collaboration. So I'm using the total for the, this is more a comparison tool, a significant tool. That's about the competition between the players and the different, I mean, to the end. Hi, yes, very interesting. I mean, I know some of it as well. Just leave to what Rob just said. And he recently, to the session on this project and the business model and business models. And afterwards, I started thinking about that, about the competition, et cetera. I'm wondering, are these business models really the most suitable ones to evaluate open education? And my inquiry took me to evaluating social innovation, perhaps. Is there maybe a different angle of looking at that? And what do you think, what Rob thinks, what Söderbäggelsen? How are you connected to social innovation? Yeah, instead of using business model, which are that competitive drive and making money, et cetera, et cetera. For us, it's more about adding value to the social value and making change happen, et cetera. So is there no concern to maybe only need to de-focus from that business sort of plus way towards the more looking at it from a social innovation side? So I think that the idea of this model is there, different framework for that, but to look from three components that every institution has. So every institution has a customer and they have to think what is the value proposition you're offering to your customer. He has some infrastructure, he has very a center like his venture home and capital and all of that. And some financial and I think that you almost every organization is teaching them to prepare the units for components. The other models that use different components for maybe more suitable situation, but it's not, it's my experience most certainly. And those two that I am an expert in, So if I got this right, there was a question of whether the Bazaar is replacing the cathedral, the answer is no, in the best of cases, it's complementary, but now more on the educational level, on the also like severe conflicts, like in terms of how to design a program, courses, wouldn't you have to take some decisions in terms of creating a face-to-face community or an online community? You see like fault lines in this cathedral and Bazaar contrast in the future. They say, oh, there are some open conflicts that need to be addressed. It's how these two models are actually not just complementary, but actually really pose a problem. It's a big question, I think that's quick thinking about the question because it's in the picture I think, but I think that what we will see in the future and I think the opening session today was also related to that, is that many different types of special institution can be used together. And we should not be thinking about when we think about the definition of solution and for example, we are thinking of a way and I think if someone spoke about it about time, they should think about background degrees, possible grade two degrees, grade three, five degrees. But people, even after the age of 18, 19, whatever, they need to become life-long learners. So can you imagine that in 10 years, people at the age of 15 or 16 would get back to universities or special institutions ever because they would need to learn again. And so their life would have to be life-long learning, what we are calling. So in order to give education to very different segment of people with pleasure, with the pleasure, we have more population today, more people that live longer, they are working longer, they are sometimes in the world that have disparities so they're more time to learn. None of that. So we need many different types of solution. And I think this continuum between Cibra and Bazaar, we just keep on playing. And we should allow all of them to exist. This is the mention that the main thing is that we started with paper, with the idea that the replacement won't matter. And it's the same as in the opening, because when you look at it, for example, the software sector, so Python didn't replace other. Sometime Apple bought Python from some other open source and some other open source app that is very close guarded. Both some open source softwares. So there is also, all the time, mutual dependency between them. Some of them are more innovation, some of them are more traditional, I think. And it's good to have this different model. You cannot play with only one model. That doesn't make sense to me. Thank you very much. Yeah, I'm going to ask something that may sound a bit daring. I haven't read it anywhere, so forgive me if I haven't read enough. But when I think about university, I remember somebody telling me was that universities are called universities because they aim to be a universe of knowledge. So they wanted to cover human knowledge. So a university's that's of knowledge in Latin. Now, when I look at MOOCs, when I look at the way in which decisions are being made and what MOOCs creates, et cetera, I got the impression that there are some bits of knowledge in a universe of knowledge and some type of approaches to learning that can be MOOCified if you want to use that word. And some others that are not. So you see that there is a proliferation on all sorts of causes, but in the drive to create MOOCs, some knowledge and some approaches to learning are being left behind. There are things that nobody was to invest in a MOOC for because students don't learn that way or probably shouldn't be learning that way. Or because it's not something that is glamorous enough to make it to a MOOC. So how do you think this idea that I'm proposing here now, it's playing in that relationship between what is learned in a traditional high university, a depiction of what is learned in the unbundled university, which is another concept that I don't know if you have been engaging with the concept of the unbundled university. That is the proliferation of the MOOCs is kind of having a lot, leaving a lot of gaps of knowledge for students to learn somewhere else. So I don't think that MOOCs are the best practice way to learn. That's for sure. Yeah, very percy, the shape of the robot, but many things. I think that my test is what I learned is how people have to help people to set their intentions, what they like to learn and then how to use MOOCs in order to fulfill these intentions. And MOOCs is only one way to learn. Also, it's very percy, the traditional knowledge. It's not up to date, not many times, but I think that we, again, as I said before, I think that we need many models to learn. But people have to choose, and this is maybe a better definition of the students, the fact that one of our mission is help people to learn how to learn. So people can help, maybe this is the university, the unit of how to learn what you like to learn. So if you are able to help people to learn, to learn what to learn or how to learn, then we fulfill our mission. Again, they give you MOOCs, they can use MOOCs, they can program, they can open source, close source, whatever. But I think that the mission of the university is to help students people to learn. Yeah, in this sense. In some disciplines, you have this possibility of kind of bringing together in an IKEA style different bits of knowledge in humanities and arts and even in social sciences. There are things that you can choose, the other way that you learn them in, et cetera. In some of the disciplines, the order in which you learn things is very much dictated by the understanding of the discipline. So this is something that I find that the MOOCs you know, people doing MOOCs need to reflect about. That's all. Thank you very much. Thank you. Just a couple of minutes just to say all of you. Just a minute. It's a shabon. I'm going to put this to the chair. I'm sorry. Yeah, I didn't get all of you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Thank you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So hello. Hello. I don't want to be on the Teams. Sorry. That to me here, you're not going to start. It's the second time in headed space, leading space. So sorry. OK. Yes. It's really nice. It really helps. I just want to high-call for the mountains. So all my high-hanging shoots for that time is so little, so it's nice, but yes, I'm such a high-call, I'm working at the university library of three university of Berlin, Berlin is by the University of Berlin, I'm told by a marketing department that should not be translated, but let's forget that. So I want to talk about OER at the University of Berlin, and developing for your life in the studies to be set. Normally, there would have been my colleague with me, Alexander Schnicker, but he is currently doing the rework, so to say. So it's just me, but I just want to emphasize that it's not me alone. So, yeah, this is a picture of one of the libraries at FU, I will say that, I mean, what do you say? This is campus library, it's like a flagship library, but it's just one of many, so it's a lot, probably about the campus. Yeah, I will go straight into it. OER at the University of Berlin is non-existent, personally the one to say, almost. There are singular people from flagships, singular people who can do something with OER, but you never heard from here about this, and because they believe in themselves, there are no, there's no structure in the way. The interest in topic OER is mainly within the community that's concerned with open science, so it's like attached to open science, there are some working groups that meet on their own time and discuss open science with an access application, and sometimes it's OER as a topic if there is time, so this is the community that's talking about OER at my university. There's no structural embedding at all, there's no policy, no guidelines, no written statement whatsoever at the university regarding OER. Of course, there is a commitment to open this, but it's not, it doesn't really translate into some kind of action, it's just, I mean, who doesn't want to be open. Yeah, and therefore we have no really support structures. Of course, we have support structures for the teaching staff, in general, unused technology, adaptive technology, but it's not really focused on open educational resources at all. So we had to start from scratch, basically. The assignment from the head of the university library was something, basically. There's no real strategy right now, it's just, there is the topic of open community resources lingering a long time in Germany, a lot of global funded projects that will end eventually, but the people who should do it anyway, the teaching staff, and when I say teaching staff, I mean also the professors that teach, it's just really the purpose of the teaching. Yeah, they have to adapt, and they don't do it on the large scale right now. So the assignment is, let's see what we can do with OER, not that I'm going to ask the university, not that I'm going to ask the university libraries, it's not an assignment coming from all the way to the top, but from the university libraries, sort of, yeah, actions starting from the middle of the structure of the university. So, yeah, our two people team thought about what could we do, what is normally done when we are initially with the university. So we figured out there are typical approaches, like starting with the policy. This is done in Germany, but just writing a policy for starting with an online platform like an information resource or starting workshops just to get people to know what is going on with this or starting with other services, like helping building courses for the new wheels and so on. So these are all kind of top-down approaches, like this arrow, but this arrow points to an interesting place because what's here at the downside or top-down, and we don't know, the simple is that we don't know, we don't know what our teaching staff wants, needs, thinks about an online information resource. They know this at all. So we found these approaches not suitable because we didn't want to be the 100th university in Germany that tries to start with all we are and then totally miss the target group. So we figured out there the teaching staff is a major stakeholder of all we are because they are in the end the target group. They will have to build resources, they will have to find an opportunity to publish them, incorporate them into their teaching. We don't have, as a broad structure at the university, they can actually build new forces, like system, so they wouldn't be able to do that. They are the designers and traders, not only of the material but also of the methodology which I think is the part of what we are. Creating is one thing, but implementing it into their teaching is another thing. Yeah, they are key to the university by the seven ages. We don't get enough people on the teaching staff to use what we are to talk about with their colleagues, etc. There is no dissemination and then we don't have a strong argument to follow who the university could just say, we just need more aside. So first they would have to adapt and then we could involve other measures of the university. So if we look at German universities at all, and this is really simplified I don't know. As I said, a lot of projects with an exploration date and then there is status as is, so there is a lot of talk going on, but then the project ends and it ends. There is a lot of talk through our social media, a lot of conferences like this, where everyone is really excited about the topic of course and there is a lot of theoretical commitment by universities by putting OER into their efficient statements and their policies or their papers about the future of learning, but as I said, not real show. So when you are part of the teaching staff it's nice that the university commits to OER but this can be the end. This is like the state of OER, Germany University is there a few universities that are beyond that stage. Interesting, these are all in western Germany, I don't know how that came, but the formal western part of Germany is way ahead from where we are at this point. But not so much everyday use by teaching staff. This is something that we can see throughout all the universities that yes it goes beyond Germany, so it makes us think twice that. So we came up with this neat space approach to go to the teaching staff first, not talking about policies, about big words, but talking to the teachers, to the professors about what they think OER is, what they need, if they need it at all. This is what we did. This is like a recipe for success. I didn't really want to put it in like this steps, but it shows you just what we are doing. There's a lot of stuff going on between these steps. A lot of talks, a lot of catching up with people and stuff like that. So the first is the consultation with the teaching staff. And this is the part where we are now talking with everybody. We invite every single faculty for talks about how many people we speak to. So everyone at the university has a chance to get in touch with us, to ask questions, to just say what we want to say about public education resources. And we have the chance to see the people that are teaching at the university. We are at this stage just, it's not a workshop. We don't want to endlessly go on about what OER is, how great it is. We are giving materials to them beforehand so we can read about that. But we really want to start conversations. We don't want to listen to what they have to say. Yeah, it's like a higher side check with a lot of people. After that, we will, in the end, enter talks, qualitative and quantitative. We will cluster what came up in the talks and we will especially have a real emphasizing the surprises. Because we all have assumptions about what teaching staff is thinking about OER. But we want to really figure out what surprises us. And then we will take this as a basic basis to create initial OER library services. So that the topic comes up a lot of times. Then this will be maybe the university library service that will be there first. So then we will develop these services and then we will re-evaluate after a certain testing. Back in touch with the teaching staff, we will ask them about the services and then we will see if we should change anything about this. The benefits for us are there's direct input from the management users. And a lot of time it's really the same. So it's really interesting for us to really talk with them and minimize the guesswork. What do we think they need? This is not a good approach for us. We will establish a new system context. It's really, really important. This goes beyond OER, of course. We will get to know people that today already create and share the resources that we thought right now. Of course, for the department I work at and the library as a whole, we gained visibility. And we already didn't have much thoughts at this point, but we already see that the teaching staff is really appreciating that for someone comes to us and we think we really didn't think about this being a special thing, but apparently it is. Because they were really glad that someone came and asked them. These are the main benefits for us. Body findings show that most discussed topics are legal matters. These are the questions that come up the most. What is, but what is in the case and is this and is that. It's all concerning legal matters. So this will be, of course, an initial service that we team up with the legal department of the university and we will emphasize on legal matters regarding the resources. There are memories about the misuse of the materials, what if someone takes a material and he faces it or that's something that I don't like and then it's out there. If you were to talk about publish, of course we don't have a report or anything like this. So they don't really know yet what the legal reports they created. So this is a common question, of course. But also a strong interest to engage with OER in the future. So I think it's important to turn down from policy. They really want to see where this is going and they want to keep up with the topic. And two surprises. No mention of the judgment. This is a heavy thing for Germans. As you know the saying you will share you before I share you. It's really important because you don't want to be judged or maybe what if someone finds an error in my teaching materials. This would be all wrong for Germany. There is this counter-argument so you should be having good materials for your students also. Not just for students but for your students. So if you don't have anxiety about showing your materials to your students you shouldn't have anxiety with everyone. There was no mention of that which is also one of the things we talk about in the OER community. We talk about a lot of resources. They don't have time to do this on top. Just to give you a perspective in Germany teaching is not that important in the university. The universities are basically three. Students and so in teaching they will take what they can get. They won't revolt because they had a bad lecture. This doesn't happen. So as teaching staff and these are most close talks I was talking about you have other things to do than work on your teaching. Both of them and this is not a neglect it's just a planning with your limited resources. Both of them teach from what they have been taught. You don't have to prove teaching-wise anything to anyone at the university. So coming with all educational resources it's not like you bring another thing. Textbooks are basically three. They are three ebooks or open access so you don't have this incentive either like yeah make it easier for students money-wise. The strong argument of flat and so they have the other arguments and surprisingly they didn't mention it. They didn't say no I can't do this because I don't have time. So this was a surprise for us and it shows us that it's the right way to just talk to them really about the topic not just assuming what is potentially talked about so yes we will have these talks with all the opportunities throughout the year maybe next year we don't have an agenda set in stone or a deadline which is something we do on the side for our main group but we will in the end have a large focus of information about the topic and then throughout 2024 we will have the first or related services up and running and then we will see how that goes so yes this was basically what I wanted to tell you these are my topic information and I would really like to know the situation of the old university what do you think about their projects similar this was really fascinating thank you very much we turn a couple of minutes left so if you want to see the process get some brush this is my first story back in the OER community and I noticed there were a lot of librarians around that didn't surprise me when I started to reflect on it because it seems like I come from the computer science area and there's really just a cornucopia of resource I mean it's not like lack of resource but what we need is curation of those it seems like a natural thing for library science so that's one comment but the other big question I have too is what about students because they're going to be coming in the library like you said maybe not getting the best lecture and they need other resources and if the library could say here's a bunch we said all the resources are free in Germany so that a lot of them are so yeah that's not the base of the US at all yeah students is a whole lot of topic I don't think we will ever have to pursue resources to ask the students but I think we will I think the pathway that we talked with the teaching staff about this because they are the direct conflict with the students so we will just see if the teaching staff tries something how do we work out when it responds to our students but this is what we can do I don't think we can be putting this again with the students because it's also in Germany and yeah concerning asking students anything we don't really can know much about the students from a legal perspective so we don't have a lot of data of usage etc so when they come in the library and say I need this I need that they mostly come in on the website they are part of the library still but let's see how it feels I'm here in the in the library so thank you very much for presentation I have a question about the process the first was a consultation with the teaching staff I wanted to do this a consultation we work with information specialists it's a question I asked the information specialist to talk with the people about different types of things who are the consultations who do it in your library this is my colleague and myself so two persons and you have open education in your you know we are assigned on this topic among several other we consulted with an expert on these kind of structural thoughts and we talked with every faculty has like a person that has an email address so we try to find those people to talk about how in your library should we approach these thoughts this is what we call but the content of the consultations was asked to me thank you one more question there will be lunch and the noise to start outside that's the only reason and we can also discuss what the title is I don't know who was next I really don't know there are one or two of your apologies thanks for that I just wanted to ask the gentleman who asked about the students for my background we have the luxury of including students in the Asian region the analysis and getting the ideas but I wanted to know do you have a background within your locality or environment for open education open programs because it's very easy to find themselves or to find it when you bring in in those kind of contexts because I'm working still on the same again background path from home so do you have those kind of environments open something so that these can fit in not really identified as such because the support structure for students at my university is really fragmentary so a lot of these services are commonplace that's not labelled as we are doing something for you here this is like a place for talking about openness like I just heard in the talk before it's always a support structure for for students we have this but it's not like integrated we can really tap into this because this is all classified information for us we don't get to know anything about the students really and if we try to type in what kind of students are involved for their personal rights so there is no analysis really on that so this is like a pretty single effort thank you very much it was amazing we can quite see outside the departments don't see it