 You guys remember as trainers when you first started to make the connection that most chronic pain was connected to weakness and instability versus like something wrong and more often than not, uh, when somebody is complaining of chronic pain, it's due to weakness and instability in that surrounding joint. When you've been doing this long enough, you've seen this and it's so common in clients where they have an issue like that, that if you actually focus on it, address it or like you use your example of the ankle stuff, like if someone has really poor, you know, and weak feet and ankles and limited range of motion on one side. And if you actually address mobility in there, you will see improvement in that chronic pain all the way up their body. Here's an easy, general, simple step you can take in your training to alleviate chronic pain. Train unilaterally. Just train one limit of time for about two months. And that tends to solve a lot of pain problems. That's a really good tip, but you need to explain that a little bit more. Yeah, I want to get into it, but I'll tell you first why that is the way I opened the show today. So obviously map symmetry now has been out for, let's see, when did we release that about four or three months ago? Something like that? Yeah. So June, I think. So the initial people that signed up for it during the launch now are going through it, right? So they've been through at least half of it is what we're seeing. And I'm getting a lot of messages from people who followed map symmetry. And the number one comment I'm getting is it took care of the pain that I had. Oh, I used to have this back pain. I had this hip pain, knee pain, and it's totally gone now after following the program. And map symmetry is not a correctional exercise per se program, but it's a lot of unilateral training. And it just, you know, it just highlights how effective training one side of your body is at a time at kind of solving these. I don't know. It helps you to focus on where you're unstable. Yes, a lot. And so it's like, you don't realize that because we're creatures of habit and what we've developed in terms of these patterns of lifting, a lot of times you can mask a lot of those imbalances by momentum or by, you know, if you're doing a lot of bilateral exercises specifically, you can use your body in ways where you can basically bypass a lot of those issues that are underlying. So it really helps to kind of bring that to the surface. Totally. I mean, if let's say you do barb, you do a lot of barbell exercise, which are phenomenal, but let's say one side of your body is 3% different than the other in terms of muscle recruitment pattern, which is very common, very common, right? At 3%, it's nothing, by the way, I'm using a very conservative number, but just 3% different. So it's either 3% weaker or 3% less stable or the recruitment pattern is different. But you always train this way over the years. That means that some joints are going to be stressed differently than others and it can cause problems. And what happens is you strengthen that difference, that 3% becomes solidified because you consistently train it that way. What you train is what you strengthen and it doesn't become something that's visible or that you can target until you really start training one at a time. That's when things start to happen. And then you strengthen in that direction and things tend to balance out. And when you, when you keep doing bilateral type of lifting, you're going to be loading a lot more than you would unilaterally. And so it's, it's like you're putting more stress and demand on your body to what's underlying and not being addressed. And so it's like, you just try to kind of muscle through it. And a lot of times, you know, especially athletes are guilty of trying to kind of self-correct as you're, as you're just pushing through. When in fact, being able to take that time away from really intensifying your workouts and adding more load, it does your body so much better. You guys remember as trainers, when you first started to make the connection that most chronic pain was connected to weakness and instability versus like something wrong. And I remember as a young trainer, like, you know, clients telling you that they had chronic pain and not really knowing where to, where to address it or the best thing that I think I knew what to do back then was like, oh, I'll try and strengthen the muscles that are near that area, stretch things out or stretch potentially like thinking it's that way. When in reality, more often than not, when somebody is complaining of chronic pain, it's due to weakness and instability in that surrounding joint or even just distal joints. Right. Cause like if my ankle is my left ankle has some mobility or some strength issues, I might be so good at compensating that my ankle itself doesn't feel bad. But then the area that compensates, then your knee hurts, knee or the hip. Right. Or even there's been, I've even seen go all the way up the kinetic chain to like the shoulder. Yeah. You know, I had a physical therapist that I worked with for a long time, not personally, but she, she worked in my studio and she was amazing. She was excellent. Her name was Lori and I remember one time she had a client who had like kind of neck pain, neck tightness and eventually she was like, oh, it's coming from his left thing was his left foot or something like that. And I remember being like, well, that's ridiculous. I'm this back when I was kind of more of a bro trainer. Yeah. And she showed me and then she trained me and it went away. And I remember being like, well, I guess everything's connected. Kind of makes sense. I know. I used to be so mystified by that. Like you get some issue with like the left ankle and then your right shoulder would be messed up. Well, the contralateral kind of it ping pongs, it ping pongs all the way up the kinetic chain. So it's like, if you have a weak, a weak joint over on, on this side, like you have weakness and instability on this side, then the next joint up is got issues. Then the next joint up has issues. You pushing it further out. Yeah. And then it keeps going all the way up. And I remember figuring that out. And then that was like a tactic I would use with clients, like trying to convince them to personal train with me early on, because it would blow their mind. It would blow their mind that you could they'd have maybe some, like you said, like upper back or shoulder issues. But it's not that. Yeah, it's not that. You could work it all the way down. And then you find out they're like, oh, I actually broke my ankle like three years ago. You think that has to do with all that? I said, yeah, well, because then you're compensating on this side and then that side over compensates and then that side over compensates. And then it works its way all the way up and all that stuff hurts. Oh, yeah, totally. Like if you put like a quarter inch rise in one shoe or even less, something that's kind of barely perceptible and then walk around like that all day, I guarantee your back will start to bother you. And I guarantee if you stick to it long enough, your neck will start to bother you. That's like it reminds me of, I didn't mean Seinfeld even covered this, but like when George had the huge wallet. He's sitting on it constantly. Yeah, it's just like those hips are just constantly in that sort of asymmetry all day long. It just destroys your back, right? Like stupid stuff like that. It affects you if it's like a continual thing. What is it with the dad wallet, by the way? That is such a dad wallet, dude. Yeah, keep all the receipts. Yeah, so that's that's what it is. Coupons. He's keeping all the receipts from everything, you know? I do. I'm still like a brick in his back. Yeah, that or like business cards, right? Someone has a business card. OK, I put got to keep that. You never know, I might need that. You know what I'm saying? It's the fuck yeah. Five years later, it's this big. You know, it's like call the guy sometime. Yeah, it's hilarious. No, so I got a DM from a woman who was a power lifter, competitive. So she's not a beginner, not even intermediate. She's been competing. I think her DM said like three years or something like that. And she was and I bought map symmetry because I've been power lifting so long. Obviously power lifting is all bilateral, you know, barbell type movement. And she was strong. I don't remember what her lifts were, but she listed them and she was really good. She says I followed map symmetry. I went back to power lifting. She's like, I can't believe how much less pain I feel. And now I'm saying I'm starting to break my OPRs because of, you know, correcting these issues. This conversation flies in the face, too, of the the other side, right, that likes to debate the whole mobility side and turn that way. This is the part that annoys me. It's like when you've been doing this long enough, you've seen this. And it's so common in clients where they have an issue like that, that if you actually focus on it, address it, work like you use your example of the like the ankle stuff like if someone has really poor, you know, and weak feet and ankles and limited range of motion on one side, and if you actually address mobility in there, you will see improvement in that chronic pain all the way up their body. Or you could just fall in the other camp and just is like, oh, that's such a waste of time to to do mobility exercises. You should just strength to train your way through. It's just like so silly to me that that's even an argument in our space. And I know where it comes from. It comes from the fact that general strength improvements will improve mobility generally, right? But when you come down to an individual with chronic pain like that, especially somebody that's been working out for a while, you got to be more significant. This isn't coming from dumb trainers. It's coming from intelligent people that will try and try and use studies to prove their point that you don't need that. Well, I think the only point that they have is valid with that is if it's not being applied as strength driven mobility, right? Mobility is supposed to be about strengthening and supporting around and creating that stability. It's not about flexibility or anything passive. So if you're utilizing, you know, any kind of like stretching technique where we're more passive in that than it doesn't apply as well. No, having lots of flexibility with little strength is actually some of the most unstable that you can ever be. I've and it's not common, but I've worked with clients who had hyper mobility or super flexible like Gumby, no strength. They were the most challenging clients to not hurt. They were far more challenging than my tight clients because the range of motion was so ridiculous. They had such little control. I had to stop the reps short and watch them very carefully because they could easily squat, ask the grass and do all kinds of crazy stuff. But because they lacked the strength and stability, they would hurt themselves. And it was really challenging. It's such a good point that you bring up, Justin, because I, you know, when I'm coaching mobility, the main thing that I have to coach is not the movement or exercise itself, but the intent. Yes. So I mean, that was and that was kind of the the motivation behind the the webinar, right? The prime pro webinar that I shot years ago was to show people cues like that. Yeah. Like I had to give you credit for that because it's like as you're doing, you have to be like, I need to be tense right here. I need to feel this muscle being fired up and activated through this stretch. Otherwise, it should be a struggle. Yeah. Otherwise, you just naturally go to the end range and you don't gain any more access. Right. You just in order to gain that access, you have to create that isometric tension to gain that new access, that new range of motion and really see serious improvement. If you just see somebody on YouTube doing some mobility exercise and you hear everyone talking talking about mobility, mobility, mobility, you're like, OK, I'm going to start trying to do this and you start doing some lizard with rotation, some combat strength. You start doing some of these moves and you do it for a while. You're like, oh, shit. Now, now I fall in the camp of the other side that is going like, oh, yeah, that's a bunch of bullshit. It wastes the time. It's not really helping people. It's like, well, no, how you do it is so important because if you don't do it with the right intent, then, yeah, it will come off that. All right, here's a giveaway for today's episode. Maps, Anabolic, the most popular maps workout program, the one that started it all. We're going to give away for free. Here's how you can win. You have to leave a comment under this episode in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode. You also have to subscribe to this channel and click on notifications. If you do all those things and we'd like your comment, we'll notify you under your comment, hey, you won and then let us know where we can send your free access to. OK, so that's what's going on right now. Also, before we start the episode, we're running a sale right now. The RGB bundle, which includes Maps, Anabolic, Maps Performance, Maps Aesthetic. It's a bundle. It's already discounted. That's an additional 50% off plus we threw in some free stuff. So go check that out or we're also running a 50% off sale on an individual maps program. Maps Suspension. It's a suspension trainer based workout program. So do your whole workout with just one pair of suspension trainers. So that's also 50% off. So if you're interested in either one, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code July 50. So July 5 0 with no space for that massive discount. All right, here comes the show. I had kind of a loose conversation around this topic with my kids because we so we just got back from Vegas to visit family. But we also went and watched some shows. And one of the shows we saw was Mad Apple. It's a new Cirque du Soleil show, which by the way, best Cirque du Soleil show that I've ever seen. Oh, it was incredible. And I'm gonna get into the conversation in a second, but it was so good because it was broken up with stand-up comedians. So they would do an act. Interesting. And then like Brad Williams came out and did an act. And then a couple of other guys I'd never heard of that were hilarious came out. So in between certain acts, they would be stand-up. And I thought it was such a great combination. Interesting. Very entertaining, super entertaining. But anyway, in the Cirque shows, they often have people that do either contortion type stuff or performance with this like extreme mobility and ranges of motion. And as we're watching this, my kids are like, afterwards they're like, how do these people not like hurt bending backwards? And like there's a lot of these aerial acts in there. And one of the aerial acts is where a guy will hold onto a strap with one arm, hang with one arm and support someone else and twist and spin and the shoulder mobility is insane. And he's like, how do they not like, how can they do that? And I said, well, through practice and through training, they own that all those ranges of motion they own. Like if I moved your arm in that position, even if I could move it in that position, you'd have no control over it. You'd have no, you wouldn't have strength there. You'd hurt yourself. That guy and that girl up there, every single one of those positions is strong. So that's what I was kind of, you know, break. Yeah, they had to press, we overload themselves to get to that point. Yes. You also have to remember too, that you were looking at the, the pinnacle of that. Oh, that's as extreme as it gets. So that's like, it's also like talking to your kids about looking at NFL players or NBA players and being like, how did he just three sticky dunk like this? Like, okay, well, one, he has practiced that his entire life to get good at that. Two, he's also the one percentile that's genetically gifted to be able to do that. So you have the combination of these people that have hypermobility and strength as it is. And then they've compounded that by training it for decades and decades. They're a whole lives. So in the Cirque shows, there are aerial acts where they typically pluck from gymnastics and, you know, competitive aerial type sports. And then there's these traditional circus acts that you don't get in gymnastics and stuff, but you have to go to these family circuses in Europe, Italy, very common. Well, they'll go to these small circus acts and pluck children and recruit them because they're, they do these, like there's acts, certain acts that you just don't see anywhere, except for in circuses. For example, there was this woman who literally, she had long hair. She attached her hair to this cable and did, and it would yank her in the air and she would use these aerial acts in the air attached by her hair. Now, I mean, her neck strength was just, as I'm watching this, I'm like, how is this not ripping her, you know, but you can see like a receding hairline because she practices all the time. So her hair is getting ripped out. That's gonna be so gnarly, like head-to-head-wise and everything. It was so crazy, but so impressive to see this extreme, you know, but Jessica was telling me, cause, you know, she traveled with Cirque de Soleil for years and she's like, oh yeah, they go to, cause I'm like, where do they find, like where are you gonna find someone that hangs from your hair? And she's like, that's actually an old circus act. And they would go, they'd go to these circuses around the world, like Russia, Italy, and I forgot where else. And they find these people and they pay them to come do these weird, you know, crazy acts that you won't see. That's crazy. Have you ever asked her how, like, I've always been curious, like, how well they get paid at, like, at different levels? Very good question. So they get paid, the performers tend to get paid really well, especially if the act that you do is centered around you. Or not only centered around you, but not letting many people do them. So the circus acts, the real rare ones, it's really hard to find people to do certain acts like the straps and, like, certain aerial acts and, like, people who fire bow and arrow with their feet, stuff like that. They can get paid high often because you have, like, such a low supply of people that do it. So have you ever asked her, kind of, like, with the ranges, like, what's, like... You'll never believe who's some of the highest paid... Like, the most novel you get paid the most? You know who's some of the highest paid people in circus? The guy, gotta be the guy fucking with the tigers. Oh, what about the fire eaters? They don't do animals at circuses. Oh, okay. Yeah, they do that. Okay. I guess not, there's a lot of those. But now, of course, it ranges. Depends on the attitude of the show. Okay, so tell us what you got. Which what? The clowns. What? Okay, so... Oh, there's a clown school, right? Bro. There's a whole university of clowns. So first off, people don't know this. I learned this from Jessica. Before I met her, I thought clowns were, like, you know, red moves, colored face, act stupid, right? No, it's the guy or girl that comes out that opens a show, entertains you, does acts in between, and basically makes the show... You're right, because you know what? They orchestrate it so much that if something goes wrong, it's their job to go in there and, like, entertain the crowd still, right? They also have to have multiple skills. That's what I mean. Yeah, they'll either... They can juggle, they can spit fire, they can... Like, this guy, this clown for Matt Apple was so good that he was speaking in different accents. He was telling jokes, so he was a little funny. He did this one act where he had this beer on this, like, rope, and then he spun it around. So the beer... But the beer wouldn't fly, and you think he's gonna throw it at everybody. And it was legit, like, he was balancing. Like, a weird act, right? Then he did Shadow Puppets and did this whole comedy act around it. So, and she was like, oh, he's really good. She goes, you know, clowns are some of the hardest people to find, some of the highest paid, and my kids are, like, freaking out, like, what? They are? So what's the range? Like, what's the problem? Oh, I don't know what the problem is. Oh, you don't know how the... I'll give you some range here. Dude, they got a bad rap from horror movies. So now you gotta be thinking here, okay? So, Rodeo's clowns are always there. So is that, like, if you didn't make it, then you... Is that, like, if you didn't quite make this... At the entry level? Yeah, you get the hippo placement, you're like, I'll just be a clown. Or that's, like, that's your internship, you gotta start there, you gotta get chased by some bulls and shit. Get blasted? Yeah, get blasted. Wow, I didn't think about that. Yeah, because they always have, like... Dude, that's a rough job. Rodeo clowns are rough. They get the juggles. They take on the bull a lot of times just to get the guy out. But I never assumed they were high paid, so I wonder... I don't know how much they get paid, but I know that the perks are really good. I mean, can somebody in the act make beyond six figures, or is it, like, you're more into traveling in art, and so you're not really... I know that they're well paid, but also, not only do you... What the fuck does that mean? You keep saying that to me. I think it's in the six figures. Okay, okay. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's in the six figures. Well, it says most between $30,000 and $100,000 a year. Yeah, well, that's because they're so... But I bet the CERC ones are paid higher than that, right? Or are you looking... It depends on probably how well the show is, too. That's what I mean. And then, when they travel with them, I would think that maybe... Housing is covered. Yeah, housing and food is probably covered. Food is covered. So that's... You travel the world. So if you make 100K a year, if you pay for housing or food, that's good money. And you're traveling the world, and you're just like... Could you imagine that? Is that how it works? What are you seeing, Doug, right now? Yeah, I mean, most are offered a one to two year contract with a competitive salary. And what I'm seeing here is between $30,000 and $100,000 a year. That's a big range. Yeah, they're counting all circus acts and all clowns. So I'm pretty sure CERC is at the top, right? No, I'm talking Cirque du Soleil. Really? Yeah. Interesting. I trained a girl who was trying to try out for it one time. Yeah, a long, long time ago, and I remember. But I don't remember asking her how much money they made. But I do remember it was better than I thought. Like, I didn't think it was a well-paid position. I thought that's like a passion type of deal that you would do because so many people aspire to do that. But I guess if you're making 100K and you don't gotta pay for it. And you don't gotta pay for anything. And you get to go to all kinds of different countries and get everything taken. I imagine it attracts a lot of young 20-year-olds, I would think, right? People that are like early age, don't have families. Well, you know, she did tell me that there were people, though, with families who bring their kids. The kids would get schooling, you know, travel, schooling, or whatever. And the parents would do the show. You know, what's his name? Steve-O from Jackass? Yeah. He went to like a clown school. Like a... Did he really? Yeah, yeah. And so he learned the trade of like the circus clown. And then obviously, like, shifted that over to doing what he does. But like, it makes sense because he's just like, he'll do so many random things and just like, like destroy parts of his body, you know, just because... I wonder how popular a clown school is. Like, are they all over the place? Or is there like a couple in the country? Not sure, yeah. Yeah, because what's the main one, like Barnum and Bailey or whatever? No, that's it. That's an old school circus. And they're not doing well. That's a traditional circus. Well, no, a traditional circus is not, is without animals, I think, if I'm not mistaken. What? If you go way back, yeah. I believe the traditional circuses, they started in Europe and they were about, they were human performances. If I'm not mistaken. Doug, we have to fact check this case. He's been wrong a lot lately. Wait, wait, hold on. Can we talk about this? He's been wrong a lot lately. I haven't been chomping at the bits of things. What's going on with you right now, dude? It happened. Yeah, it didn't happen. It was draining me. I got DMs for days. So did I. Confirming it. I was wrong. People do... I don't know what episode it was, but people do in movies, pump up before scenes. It's for sure. Get a pump. For sure. Bro, you're shooting for eight, nine hours a day. You're going to pump up. Of course, of course. Now, I don't know if this is true, but I definitely had a lot of people tell me, like for sure, like Natalie Portman, it was like green screened. Oh, CGI. Yeah, CGI. I heard that. Oh, wow. Now you're here in CGI. Because you look jacked, bro. Yeah. Compared to how it normally looks. Well, especially all the promotional, like marketing and stuff that they're showing, like certain shots and like pictures. Like I was like, that doesn't look real. Yeah. Well, dude, so back to the circus. She doesn't shape it. Back to the circus. Not that much. It was 16 and over. I brought my 12 year old and it was a little bit, there were moments where I was like, hmm, especially the comedians. The comedians came out and we're doing some humor. So Brad Williams comes out. Obviously he's, you know, he's a dwarf. Yeah. And he was talking about how his friend is a dwarf and she's dating a guy who's like six, three. And then he starts talking about what the hand jobs look like and he's like running across the stage. Like, ah, and I'm, and I got like one eye on my daughter and she's, you remember when you were a kid and you tried not to laugh at jokes in front of your parents because you don't want your parents to know that. Did you know? Yeah. That you know he's talking about. So I'm looking at her and she's like, and I'm like, why are you laughing? Oh, sorry. The whole show was like that. There was so much shit like that. I'm like, why did I bring her? Oh, no. It was bad. Oh, you know what else we saw out there was Chris Angel. Oh, how was that? Dude, I'll tell you what, really good. Obviously, you can see why the guy's well known. There was one. So my kids. He wears a lot of eyeliner. He got tons of eyeliner. And that's like the move. Is he sponsored by someone like Mac or something? Yeah. Maybelline. Chris Angel. He's a, he's a. Probably actually has his own, if he's smart, he has his own makeup line actually. He's checked that out. I bet he does. Yeah. He's not, you know the picture Chris Angel in Vegas has got his like six pack and he's all ripped or whatever. He doesn't look like that anymore. He gave up on that. Yeah, dude. He got the same picture. He's like, I'll leave a caretop for that. He's got his contract, bro. Yeah, I know. Right? Isn't it? How long did he sign for? He signed for a couple of years, didn't he? Long, bro. Long? Yeah, because his show Mindfreak was on TV in 2010. I think he started in Vegas shortly after that. So he's been out there for like 10, maybe eight years. Yeah. Which is a long time for a Vegas show. Does caretop still have his deal out there or is he done? He's still going out there. Yeah. Wow. They do sign big. They sign big long deals then. You go out there to get paid and to finish your career, right? That's it. The whole deal. I mean, it's like a guaranteed gig at the time. I thought it's always been kind of the butt of the old jokes of a lot of the comedians and like entertainers. That's where you go to finish your career. Yeah, is that what it is? So that's the joke. Yeah, but it's a joke, but he's still cashing it in. I mean, people still go to his show constantly and love it. So he gets a lot of praise. Can you find his contract? I want to know how much he got paid for that. Yeah. Chris Angel's contract for Vegas and or caretops. I'm curious like what the payday looks like. Because I know I've heard entertainers make fun of it. Like it's like you don't want to go there. It's like where careers go to die is Vegas. I think it's because when people go out there, they're done touring. Yeah. So it's like, OK, now I'm settled. It's like a residency. So you're just there and you don't tour anymore. Dude, there's this one, this one act or whatever that he did that my kids were like, they lost their shit, bro. So we were like six rows back, really nice seats or whatever you can see. And he does this one where he throws a sheet over himself. He levitates. Then he disappears. The sheet falls and the fucking guy appears in the seat in front of us. It just jumps up, turns around. My kids lost their mind. Did you catch it? Yeah, well, I saw him run down the aisle and get in front of us. But I don't understand how he went from the stage to there so quickly. Like he literally disappeared. He runs by and gets in front of us. I'm like, how did that happen? It must have been someone else on stage. But anyway, my kids didn't see him do any of that. All they saw was guy turns around, takes off his jacket and it's him. And he stands up and he's literally right in front of us and they lost their mind. I'm looking at my kids with the like, oh, yes, dude. Yes, bro. So the show brings in $70 million a year. He has a 10-year contract and he's supposedly worth about $50 million himself. Okay, that's not bad at all for a magician. Yeah, but he doesn't say what his contract was. It does not say. So you give me his net worth to what is $50 million? I mean, again, who knows if that's true or not. Yeah, those things are always weird. I mean, because you know what they say. You must have bought him a lot more bracelets. Hey, can I say something? Chris Angel. Can I tell you something about? I don't know much about him. I don't want to crap everybody out but I respect the guy quite a bit now. Why would they crap you? Because I'm gonna tell you why. I'm gonna tell you why. So in his show, kind of like maybe two-thirds of the way through, there's like this real emotional moment and they're showing pictures of him visiting kids that are obviously very sick. And you guys know me when I see kids that are sick or whatever, it just totally ruins me. So I'm more, and I'm mad. I'm like, why are you showing this in the show? And I get a ruin, I have like a bad time or whatever. I'm watching this and it's him with these kids and kids are sick and then some are bald. So I'm like, okay, they have cancer. That makes it even worse and I'm like, I didn't know this. His oldest has been battling cancer for a while and he started a foundation. And so that's what they were talking about. So I felt real bad for feeling angry. At first I'm getting angry like, what are you trying to show? Like how cool you are? Helping you get rid of, you know. I'm mad about ruining my time. But then he showed that and I felt real bad or whatever. Donated some money. That's a good question. I think, I want to say 12, I want to say but just beat it apparently back in February. Yeah, so he's had this huge foundation for children with pediatric cancer. I still want to get to the bottom of the dollar, man. I'm just super curious what these guys made. I am. Am I the only one that's heard that a bunch of times? Like Kevin, you guys heard other entertainers talk about that? And I've always wondered like, I've always thought this sounds like a better deal. I would rather be in the same. Not have to travel. Yeah. So I've always assumed that like, that sounds like a better gig by my place. I think it is a better gig. I think that there's some weird like jealousy amongst entertainers with that. So that's what I'm wondering. Is it a jealousy thing? They're just being haters? Or are you making them significantly less than what you are if you're touring the world? Well, according to this, carrot top makes eight million per year. That's not bad, dude. Not too bad. He wouldn't make that shit touring. Staying there? I don't think so. No, yeah. I don't know if I'd want to live on the strip though. Cause you know, if you perform with a hard rock. Live on the strip, you can live off the strip. I know. I don't know what I thought. Yeah. I was just watching like an old clip. Well, I don't know how old it was, a clip of him talking about how, like how when he got all jacked and stuff because when he did the deal with Luxor, that's all he had to do was do his performance. And then he was just working out. Nothing else to do yesterday. He started working out. Putting face implants and he got a bunch of steroids. You got, yeah. I mean, he gives someone eight million dollars a year and nothing to do. And only like you have a two hour show. Like how many times, cause they don't perform, do they perform every night? They don't perform every night. He had some balloon packs at one point. I want to say some of them five nights a week. Yeah. Probably five nights a week. Yeah. Maybe. You're probably working for, if it's an hour show. Five nights a week. It's probably like three nights other week. Probably Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And you do two or three shows, I would think. Really? Yeah. 300 shows a year. Damn. Oh, that's a lot. Well, three at three and a night. Three and a night. So that's basically what we just said. Friday, Saturday, Sunday, three nights, three shows a night. Is that 300 nights? That's more actually. So it's less than that. Really? It's less than Friday, Saturday, Sunday, three shows. My math. You know what the challenge with that would be? Would be like showing the same level of enthusiasm year after year. Like I thought about that watching Chris Angel. I'm like, is he really excited about doing this? Yeah. Because I know he's done this. How many times does he add new parts to his act too? Because you get real comfortable to be in there. That's the thing about traveling too, I think it sparks a little more innovation and creativity. I mean, I would think the first year or two would be awesome because you would probably enjoy that side of it. That it's like you could do it in your sleep because you've done it so much. But then I would think years three, four, five of like, you would have to want to change some of your stuff up or else you would just keep going. Yeah, I would imagine. I mean, imagine this us getting on here every day if we had to say the same stuff, the exact same stuff every single time. Like you'd have to find ways. But scripted. Yeah, that would be awesome. I would just mess with you guys while we're doing it. It looks like he performs every day except for Sunday. So one show. So you got a two hour, two hour work day. Well, you don't think he also has to show up a couple hours before us? It's probably four hours a day. But seven days a week or six days a week? That's decent. Yeah, that's not bad. 8 million. And the contract, would you say it was a 10 year? Is that what I heard? Five year. Five year. Oh, so that's kind of cool. 40 million. Yeah. That's not bad at all. And then cash out and be done after that? Yeah. That's all it. Speaking of things that are hot, Adam, I didn't think you could get even hotter, but apparently you got too hot. I want to hear about what happened when you were out and trucking. I got a sun fever, dude. I didn't even know what that was. What? That's like five year olds get that. I get it. Yeah, so. So you're on the side, you forget to drink water? It goes sun, fever, heat exhaustion, and then heat stroke, right? So you get to first base. Yeah, I got to first base. Well, I couldn't figure out what was going on. Well, first of all, I'm sure Cabo didn't help, right? So we had the week there. I pushed the limits in Cabo. I was on a mission to just to get as dark as I could and like, I really wanted to show you guys what I used to look like as a kid. So I was like, I was like, really? Yeah, I did. I was like, I'm gonna show you guys how dark it is. You're gonna get scorched. Yeah, I can get hella dark, dude. So I was on this mission in Cabo. Got pretty dark, then we had that break, and then we went back and then I'm in Truckee. Truckee was hot, and we were in pools and lakes, and I was not eating very much. So I was skipping breakfast, I just not eating very much food. So, and then when I was eating, I was actually eating pretty good. I was eating pretty healthy, so I wasn't getting a lot of sodium. And then you add in the fact that I wasn't drinking any water. If I was drinking, it was either a Diet Coke or it was alcohol. And we had like back to back days of like sitting in the sun. And I was like laying in the sun. Like I was not in the shit. You're not dehydrated. Just totally, but it didn't really hit me because I was like sipping on some things. And I was, like I said, I was drinking fluids, I wasn't drinking a lot of water. And what was weird was it didn't hit me till the night, and I was cold. So I was like, and I remember- So you're like, I'm getting sick. Yeah, so I thought maybe I was getting sick or something. But I didn't have any other symptoms other than like my temperature. And then I was getting these bad headaches, bad headaches. And then my temperature started to rise. I could feel my body on fire, but I was cold. See, this is when you take me with you all the time. You know, I would have been feeding you water. I know, I know. And Katrina's like, what's wrong with you? Are you sick? I'm like, no, I don't feel sick, but my body temperature just feels really weird. Like I can feel my skin is on fire. Like I can feel my body like super hot, but I'm freezing. And I would be, and then I'd bundle all up Now you weren't paying attention to your urine. It was it dark? So it didn't get to that point. It didn't get to the point where- You just didn't pee much. Yeah. And it didn't get to a point where it was like, cause I know that's another thing that they say to look at is your pee. Of course I was on, you know, what you're gonna call it all day. Write my pee.com? No, no. What's the doctor one? The one that everybody does. All of a sudden you become a doctor after you- Oh, WebMD? Yeah, WebMD, thank you. I was on WebMD all day. I got cancer. Well, you know, that's why I was, of course, afraid of a potential heat stroke first. So I was on there and there was a lot of things on there. I was like, okay, I don't have all of those symptoms. So maybe it's not this. And then I started thinking, I don't feel sick. What could it be? But then I started looking up other things and then it was like heat exhaustion. Oh, that looks closer to what I have. And then I look at sun fever. I'm like, oh, sun fever is exactly the symptoms that I have on. Sun fever sounds like a disco song from the city. I got that sun sticking a lot. So what would you do? So what I ended up doing, and that's when I knew that's what it was, was I was depleted of salt and water, is I pounded two LMT's. So I did LMT back to back like that and then just kept sucking the water down and literally could just feel my body's temperature starting to- Just fix. Yeah, start to acclimate. I did roll into the next day a little bit to where I was like fatigued still and I could tell that I didn't wanna get out in the sun after that. So I kind of stayed around the house and just laid around and then by the next day I felt perfect again. That by the way, sometimes you have to be careful drinking too much too quickly when you're in that state. Some people will throw up because they can't, they just can't absorb it but the salt actually makes a difference and helps out. Oh yeah, it was wild to feel a difference. Like how quickly it started to turn, make my body turn around and feel better would just by getting that in. And that's when I, because of course I'm the opposite of you. Like you're like Mr. paranoia about everything and you think you have, you always think you have cancer. Every week sounds like, I think I have got this kind of cancer. You're the guy that runs out of gas on the fucking road. I'm the opposite twice. So I'm like, Katrina's telling me I'm not feeling well and I'm like, no, I'm just, I'm hot from the sun. You know what I'm saying? But you're bleeding. Yeah, she's like, you have a jacket on inside the house. It's 80s. You're not fine. I'm like, well, I don't know. Something weird, right? We're just gonna weather it out. I'm like that. But then I'm like, okay, I better get on. Walk it off. I better get on with it and start like searching. And I'm like, okay, I'm checked that off. I don't have a heat stroke. So that's okay. And then I finally get the sun fever one. And I'm like, okay, well, if I pound this water and I get some good salt, because of course that's like the, they give you the, this is it. This is what you do. So let me ask you this. When did you start drinking it? Did you feel like, oh my God, I need this? Yeah. Oh yeah. That's when the kind of the light bulb moment of like, oh fuck. Then I actually started to recount my day. Cause I actually didn't even really think that I did. I was like, oh shit, you know what? I haven't been eating breakfast the last couple of days. Even when I eat, I'm actually eating pretty lean in light. I wasn't eating bad. So I wasn't eating a lot of sodium. So sodium low and low water. Yeah. And sweating. Yeah. And then the other thing, oh man, I said I had like one little bottle of water in the last like 24 hours. The rest has been diet, coax, or alcohol. So you did two back to back. So that's 2000 milligrams of sodium right out the gates. Yeah. But instantly made me feel way better. You know what's funny is that the sun fever or heat exhaustion was relatively common when we were in school in sports, because coaches, do you guys remember when coaches would tell you? Coaches would not let you go get water. It used to be a discipline thing. They would be like, if you were not running fast enough or not pushing enough, nope, you don't get a water break. Yeah. Dude, they literally had it out. So it was like PVC, like with holes in it. So it was like you're drinking like a cattle. Yeah. And you only had like a brief moment to go get water. And like, yeah, that was the whole thing. It was mainly our JV year. We had like coaches that were like the weekend warrior coaches that didn't know what the fuck they're talking about, you know, and that they would just to hydrate the hell out of all of us to make you tough. It was, or they would do this. I remember learning this as a trainer and then thinking back to when I was a kid and I was like, those morons, you remember to get a side stitch when you're running? Yeah. And what would the teacher and the PE teacher say? Oh, it's because you drank water. It's the opposite. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm cramping. It's the opposite. It's because I need water. Yeah, you had too much water. Yeah. Dude, talking about the opposite of coaches was perfect for this. You guys see that study that finally came out confirming the fact that leaning over, hunching over on your hands and knees helps you, your heart rate to recover a lot more appropriately than your hands up like this and standing around, which your coach always tells you, you have to do like, get up and put your hands up on your head to recover. I'm like, I feel way better doing it this way. Oh, so actually hunching over is better. Hunching over helps you recover that much faster. I've been trained to open up your lungs and lift your hands up forever. So, and that's just perception, right? Like it amounts to perception because coaches don't like to see they're like, it shows that you're tired, right? So what you're telling me is the thing that everybody says feels best is the one that is proven. And that was natural. So I didn't know that came out. That just came out. That's fascinating. It's validating. And this is why, this is the, sometimes beliefs happen and then people become so bound to them and ignore all the signs and symptoms. Right, ignore the natural inclination, your body's like, I wanna lean over. What is it? That's so annoying to me. That is so damn annoying. I had so many coaches tell me opposite of that, especially when I was like, I remember when I was testing to make the team and I was like at San Jose State and we had to run, because I was a walk on, we had to run this timed liners basically. So you do like 25 yards back, 50 yards back, 75 back, 100 back, right? And you had to do it under, I don't remember the time length, but it was like unreasonable. And so everybody would fail. And so I was like, I'm not gonna fucking fail. I'm going balls to the wall. It's like as hard as I possibly could. And I just made it within a few seconds. And I was like, thank God, I literally thought like my internal organs were gonna just come out. And I'm like on the ground like, and then you're like, get up and put your hands on me. I just put everything out there. I'm not doing that. So this is like, I would have been loved to point to actually study show. And it just like turned that card on. So now what'll be really interesting because just because that study came out does not mean that it'll make its way to high schools and stuff. Coaches aren't even gonna fuck about that. For a very long time. No, high school coaches are 10 years behind you. Yeah, so even the water thing, I'm kind of like, I get it, you know, like dealing with these kids and like, I'm going to need some water. Like every two seconds, no. You don't get water right now. I need to be hydrated. My mom said that, no. I need to be tough. That's how you have like an assistant who just has like a hose and the kid that sprays. There's some water in your shit. Get back on the field. We do need that. Yeah, would that be great? Definitely. Open your mouth. It's a fire hose. There's your water break. Are you hydrated now? I gotta tell you guys, it's a funny story. So my youngest now, he's, I want to say, he's 21 months almost, right? He's full on entering into toddler stage. So you know classic toddler stage, right? They challenge all boundaries. They love saying no. No. Yeah, it's like, you know, toddler, right? So he's becoming that now. So now when we travel, like we were on a plane again from Vegas, you're just gonna look at each other like, I don't know if we're gonna do this for a little while. Cause he's a handful. You gotta keep your eyes on him and keep him occupied. Well, anyway, I had this funny, this weird experience. So we're getting on the plane. We get on first cause we're, you know, I got his priority so we could hurry up and all sit together. He's already acting like a little turkey. He wants to be with her. He wants to be with me. He wants to stand up. He wants to play with the tray that comes down. If we don't let him, he'll scream, you know, for like two seconds or three seconds and he wants to do something else. So we're already like juggling him back and forth. And as people are coming on the plane, you know, one guy comes up to me, fist bumping me and he goes, Hey man, I love your show. I really appreciate my phone. Oh, thank you very much. Right? Well, anyway, this happens like three different times. Three different people come on the show. So all the same plane? All the same plane. Going to Vegas? No, coming back from Vegas. Oh, coming back from Vegas. So we all sit down and my son is acting like a little, little turkey, right? And I'm already, I'm thinking like, oh man, I gotta be like, people are watching. Yeah, people know me. I can't lose my shit. I gotta be perfect. Sal on TMZ the next day. I'm like, I wanna turn on cartoons and put them in front of him. Sit here and watch them. Like, wait a minute, people watch the show. You know, I think you're just at the, I think Katrina and I got lucky and timed it because we flew early and then we flew recently with Max. But there was a period where we didn't fly with him. And I'd say it was between one years old and I think two because he was an absolute saint. The last two times we flew with him at almost, he's three now and he was almost three. And we did it when he was breastfeeding still. So breastfeeding, it was easy because he could be on, we could be on Katrina. And then when he was like two and a half, three years old, now he's kind of like old enough that like I can entertain him and he's, and he'll do his puzzle or he'll watch a movie or do something like that. But the age that you're, I think it has more to do with that age range. Probably. Unless you just have a real docile, quiet kid, that's gotta be the most restless, hard time to probably entertain a kid. He's a good kid, he's just, he's active, he knows what he wants and now he's testing boundaries. For example, when he sits down at the table, he, one time he put his foot up on the table, right? His little bare foot and we're like, we don't put our feet on the table when we eat. Well, what do you think he does now when he wants to see what we're gonna do? Defiance. Yeah, literally he'll look at you in the face and then he'll go put his foot up there. Dude, my best. Just to test you, you know? My best friend's son is that he's, my best friend's son is four and he's at that age and he's actually 10, he tested Katrina, where he told Katrina like, you're not my mom, you can't tell me what to do. Oh, that's great. And Katrina's like, my best friend's wife, Janet and Justin were like, hey, you need, he's gonna be like that this week. So don't you go light on him cause he's my son. You rip into him if he does that cause he's at this age like that. And they, he was giving me the same thing. So I'm not, he hasn't really messed with me on that. I said, there's a couple of things I've had to check him with the sharing and stuff like that, but he hasn't, he goes, really, he hasn't done that at all too. I said, well, yeah, he did one time and I said, then I think I said to him, he goes, what'd you say to him? I said, you keep running your, I said, you keep acting like that, Hunter and I'm gonna beat your dad up. Wow. Look at that kid's face. Don't do that. You know how to react to that. You know what I'm saying? I said, since then he has said shit to me, man. I got so mad at me, they're like, don't you tell my son that? He's like, yeah. Well, it worked. Well, it worked and then I thought, well, that can't be the wrong thing. And then his wife tried and he goes, great, now I'm gonna have him. He's gonna be telling other kids at school that his dad's gonna beat up their dad and then I'm gonna get some USC fighter knocking on my fucking door with cauliflower. You're going like, so you're Hunter's dad, huh? My kid said that you could beat the other guy. Yeah. No, dude, that's a, I said it worked out. I said he's big B.A. himself all week after that one. That's hilarious. Hey, did you guys see the study that Joe Rogan shared that was kind of making it, made its way all over social media, the glyphosate one, do you hear about this? I didn't see that. So there was a study that showed that glyphosates, so you guys know what glyphosates are, right? They're the chemicals that- Oh, I did see this. Yeah, so GMO plants are engineered to withstand glyphosates because glyphosates kill plants. So we grow, like for example, GMO corn. Then what we do is we just spray the shit out of the corn fields and the glyphosates kill weeds and stuff like that, but the corn doesn't because it's been modified to not- It was the year, it was the year in one, huh? 80% of people tested had glyphosate residues higher than what they are supposed to have in the urine. And the reason is because we literally spray billions and billions and billions of gallons of the stuff all over the place. What? It goes up into the sky, rains down on us everywhere, right? What area, like did they pull from all different areas of the country, not just like a concentrated- 80%, wow. Yeah, 80%. That's ridiculous. It's literally billions and billions and billions of gallons have been sprayed all over the place. So everybody's like up in arms and, you know, is this bad? Is this good? What are we gonna do? Yeah, it's bad. Well, you know- I mean, it's obvious. I agree because the, because I had this, there was this one doctor on Twitter. I can't remember his name, but he goes, many, many studies have been done on glyphosates and none of them have connected glyphosates to cancer because that's the big worry. And I'm like, well, that doesn't necessarily mean it's safe. So he goes, well, do you have any evidence? So, okay, well, we know how glyphosates work. They interrupt a pathway called the shikamadi pathway, which is what kills weeds, but the shikamadi pathway is also found in many fungus, bacteria, and other life forms. So we're interrupting this important pathway in many, many life forms on Earth and to say that this is not gonna have any potential negative effects is, I think, arrogant. Like, who knows what this is gonna cause generations from now or even what it's contributing to now? Like we have testosterone levels plummeting, autoimmune diseases have exploded, allergies have exploded. Is it one of the factors? I don't know, but I don't think, you know, I don't think it's a good idea to blast the whole Earth with this. Yeah, I don't think that's reasonable to be a little bit concerned about it. What sucks about it is like, I remember when you did that interview with Dr. Bush years ago and you talked about, I remember that just like ruined my day because it was like, even if you think you're eating well, eating organic, and everything like that, like you're still fucked because it's- It's everywhere. Yeah, it's coming, getting picked back up and then raining back down on even your organic crop. He said, and I believe he said in that interview, if we stopped using glyphosates right now, it would take a hundred years for them to get out of the environment. So, I remember I listed it and I said, crap, crap me out completely. I thought, what am I doing all this for? I'm still gonna get it anyway. So, yeah. I know, but it made some controversy because there's people that are like, well show me the evidence. And I hate that because, okay, just because there isn't scientific evidence doesn't mean, it's very arrogant to say because there's no evidence, it's inner, it's of course it's not inner, you know? It's got, it affects this pathway that's in very important organisms in the world. And we know bacteria- It's the motivation to argue so much against you, the fact that you should be concerned, right? Other than the fact that you're working for a company and you know, this may be part of your product line or whatever, like, what are the other motivations? Other than like, if I'm concerned about my health, I'm concerned about everybody else's health and this could potentially be something harmful, why contest it so hard? Here's the argument that I would appreciate. I would appreciate scientists to come out and say, all right, look, here's the deal. We don't know all the potential effects. So far, the research shows it doesn't cause cancer, but here's the deal. We believe that the positives outweigh the negatives. We believe that the fact that it leads to greater crop yields and we can feed more people is better than, for example, it'd be like saying fossil fuels. Yeah, they pollute the earth and this and that, but they also, we think that for mostly human history, when we've had it at least, it's led to more positives and negatives. Like, I can appreciate those arguments, but what I can't appreciate are the whole, there's no evidence. So what is that? So what? So far, who knows what we're gonna end up figuring out later on. Hey, where did you go on vacation? So I went a few different places. I called some audibles because we were just like, I don't know, I think I was talking to Sal about this a little bit. I'm at the age where like, if something just doesn't like resonate in like, I feel like uncomfortable, I'm like, I'm out of here, dude. Oh, wow, really? Yeah, had that happen? Yeah, so we had that happen. We stayed in Cambria, which was fun. We got to... Where is that? I heard you say that. Where is that at? So it's like right up from San Luis Obispo. It's on the coast. It's rare, Hearst Castle. Oh, okay. Yeah, so we stayed in this little town. It's a quaint little town, like it's dog friendly. And so our idea, which was a stupid idea, which was to bring the dogs and the boys and everybody and go on a road trip and like go down and do this and then go to a lake. And so I've been on this mission to like find other lakes in California that I've never been to to see, you know, which ones are cool and like, things that I need to hang out with the kids more and because they started getting into fishing and I'm like, I felt like, you know, Everett got to catch some fish with his friends without me. And I'm still like, like upset about that because he hasn't caught any with me yet. So I was all pumped to do that. And like we were going to go to this place, like Arrowhead. And so we went there after we went to Cambria. And I mean, it's a nice lake. It's like down south and in near LA and it's all the way up. So it was like maybe an hour away from Palm Desert, which is where we have like a rental property. And so I was like, well, this might be cool. Like if it's a nice lake, we could like jam up there every now and then and hang out. So we went up there and we ran into a place and it was like a frame house that was like had adequate rooms and everything, but it was so tight. And then the dogs were just like so anxious the whole time we were there. And everything was just like really hard to get to. Like the lake itself, you have to be like an owner to even have access to the lake. The whole thing's fenced off. And like you can't just swim. You can't like just go to a beach. Like you have to be like a member of all these clubs and all this shit. So you just bounced? Yeah, I was like, dude, fuck this, dude, we're out of here. You guys have this stupid lake, you know? And so it was just like, that's so weird. Like, and there's other lakes close by. I was like a big bear and some other like little, but they're all kind of like, like the thing is I'm ruined because I've been going to Tahoe like so many times and like you can't beat like Tahoe ever. And so I think not only California lakes, I mean, I'm definitely biased, but way better. Do you guys remember when you figured that out? Like what age it was, where you figured out like, oh, I could just leave. Yeah. And I'm like, I like I paid money to stay there a couple of days and like, dude, I'm just going to eat this. Yeah. Let's go. And then everybody's like, yay. And we're just like, wow. Okay. How long did you stick it out for? We did a night. A one night. And you were set up to be there for a few more days. Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah. I was just like, we're out man. Dude, I remember the day that I remember that came to me. I was probably 30. And I remember sitting at the movie theaters watching a movie, 20 minutes in and I'm like, this sucks. And then I'm like, but I paid for it. I'm like, I paid for it anyway. I'm just going to leave. And I walked out and I remember this like, stay here, be miserable. Or just, it was like an epiphany. Like I can do that whenever I want. I could just bounce and it's the same thing. So we went to our place in Palm Desert, which was hilarious. We didn't go there initially because it's the summer and it's insanely hot. Million degrees. And the pool that's there is being renovated and like totally gutted. So it was non accessible. But the place is where it's familiar. The dogs are cool there. And so everything was great. Plus there's other pools on the property. We actually found out that you can do a pass at the other resorts. And so we didn't want it to hi it in like Marriott. And so we just went to all different pools, water slides, so the kids had a great time. But yeah, it was just so much better. But it was 116, dude. It was just like, I could be outside for five minutes. And then I had like, probably your sun fever. You got that sun fever, baby. Yeah, I felt like it was melting. Did you guys see the, did I show you guys the video of Max going down the slide? I can't believe it. Oh, really? I didn't send it to you? Did I send it to you? Oh, did you see it, Doug? Yeah, I saw it. Oh, okay. I think I posted it. I just posted it on my story. Or maybe you posted it, yeah. It's in your personal text. Yeah. Yeah, I can see all the text Doug. All right, privately all the time. Don't tell the other guys. Somebody's hanging out. So at the Somerset place, I don't know if you guys ever seen that slide. I know you have. I don't know if you have or not. It's like a serious, it was like, you remember going down Tony Robbins slide like that. So it's a big. Oh, so it's a big slide. Yeah, it's a big slide into the pool. And I did not think he would, he doesn't even like to be in the pool without being close to me. I mean, you guys saw him in Cabo, like he wants to be close. That pool was cool because it was only three feet so he could walk in it. But obviously he can't swim. So he doesn't want to be the deep end by himself. So the pool, he's kind of like skeptical about it. But I think because my other buddy's kids who are a little bit older were there and he was watching them go up with their dads and stuff like that and get on the slide, he wanted to go up there. So I actually took him up. I'll show you guys, I actually did a video. So my buddy's wife had one of those, like, you know, ziploc bag things that for your phone. Oh yeah. So you could take it to the water. Yeah, so I actually took it on the slide and him going down it. But I mean, I created a monster after that. That's all he wanted to do. You know, he just wanted to do the slide all day. So you had to walk him up there. I think that's part of the sun fever was like out there all day. And then all I'm doing is like, walking up these flight of stairs. Like, I must have did it 50 times, dude. He was so excited. But I was so pumped that he was willing to even do it because I mean, it's fast enough that it throws me back. Like I can't, I was holding them and you see I like fall back because the thing moves so quick. But how do you, are you, are you guys like, so I have this weird thing where if I'm on a trip, I haven't been on a trip this many like away days in a long time. Yeah. But do you guys get this where you miss of all things your bed where you go home and you're like, oh, I can't wait to go home. So not when we, when we're up in, cause the truckie place has amazing beds. I love those beds up at that place. That's like one of my, my favorite beds is the, the truckie beds. But what we don't have there is we don't have AC cause it cools down at night. But I like it so cold that it doesn't get cold enough for how I like it. And so what I miss is the, the chili pad more than anything. So that's what I want to do is get that up there at the truckie house for that, for that. That makes sense there. For sure. For summertime. At least a summertime to, so I could cool off that side because that was, I could not wait tonight. I mean, last night I got home, right? So, and that was like the first thing, making sure my chili was up and running. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the contrast. Yeah. Huge difference. It makes a huge difference. Well, especially when it's, you know, 80 plus degrees outside and at a place like where we're at a truckie were you couldn't even cool it down. You can't cool it down other than opening the windows and slow. So by about three in the morning, it hits the temperature I like, but from, you know, laying in bed from 10 to three, I'm like tossing and turning. And with the chili pad, I have a time to where I hit that thing and it's already ice cold when I get there. Let's do that. Let's put them up there. Yeah, I think we should. Hey, real quick, check this out. Do you eat a diet that's low in heavily processed foods? Or do you have a diet that's low in carbohydrates? Or do you sweat a lot because you like to work out frequently? You probably need more electrolytes in your diet. Mostly sodium. Well, check this out. There's a company called Elementee. They make an electrolyte powder you put in your water with the appropriate levels of sodium. Here's what I noticed when I started using it. Better pumps, I was stronger, better recovery. No artificial sweeteners, by the way, they taste really good and they're very inexpensive. It's got the electrolytes your body actually needs and it's got the appropriate levels of sodium. Other electrolyte powders are too low in sodium to really make that big of a difference, not Elementee. And right now, if you go to drinkLMNT.com forward slash Mind Pump, you can get a free sample pack with any order. So that's eight single serving packets for free with any Elementee order and that's only for Mind Pump listeners. Again, it's drinkLMNT.com forward slash Mind Pump. All right, here comes the rest of the show. First question is from Lance R. Meyer. What is the difference in hypertrophy between the dumbbell overhead press versus barbell? If the difference is stability, is there more benefit in using dumbbells than most press movements? Okay, so the obvious answer is gonna be this, your best bet is to do both and to cycle between the two of them. But what's fun about questions like this is people always wanna know either or, like which one is better as if you have to just pick one or the other. That one's hard for me to say because the barbell, you can definitely load it more and you can really get more power output and strength. But when it comes to balance the stability, obviously the dumbbells are gonna be on balance. Well, and then also you can move the dumbbells in the most optimal joint pathway. Your hand's not stuck. Yeah. So it's like Justin always makes the case why he loves kettlebells for kettlebell pressing because the natural kind of spiral motion that you press with when you do that is feels the most natural. And so dumbbells will be the most comfortable and you'll probably have the better safer technique. Like if I'm training a new client, I would always start with a dumbbell press before a barbell press. Because one, I wanna train their joint stability in there before I put it, load it a lot. So I would start them with dumbbells and then move there. Now for someone who's an advanced lifter, you'd be a fool not to use both. They both have their advantages and they both are important. And then I know the person starts this and prefixes it with hypertrophy and like you said, they want an answer, but it works. Well, then the answer is if it's for hypertrophy and we're specifically, my question, the follow-up as a trainer I would say to you is, which one do you do more of? And then you do the opposite. If it's from building muscle and you're an advanced lifter, so you've already got good joint stability, you've already done dumbbells before, you've already done barbells before, I would ask which one falls in your routine most of the time? I'd say do the other one now for a while. This doesn't answer the question, but I'm just noticing a trend and I'm sure it's just a divisive sort of marketing ploy. But a lot of these hypertrophy nerds are trying to devalue a lot of strength lifts. And it's really annoying. And here's the thing. So I saw one recently too about like seeing how it's so stupid to do like any kind of sled drives or sled work for hypertrophy. And it's just because it doesn't hit any eccentric part of the muscle contraction. And it's like, yeah, no shit, but it still has a lot of value. Like everything doesn't have to be super hypertrophy based. It all fills into the same bucket. And if you're not doing something, you're gonna be by stimulating in a new way, which creates growth. Listen, if all you did was push the sled to build your legs, then you'd be done. Yeah. And you neglected barbell back squats and you neglected front squats and lunges and step ups. But to not use the sled and to compliment that, I think that's silly. You know what's funny about that is the fact that it doesn't have, so this is what good coaches and trainers know. The fact that the sled doesn't have eccentric lowing. So for people who don't know this, eccentric portion of a rep is the lowering part. So if I do a curl, concentric is coming up and then lowering the weight is eccentric and I'm lowering it with resistance. Obviously with the sled, you're only pushing forward. There's no eccentric load. And studies show that the eccentric part contributes the most to muscle building. But here's the, this is the trick now, here's the key. Good coaches and trainers don't look at a sled and say, oh, it doesn't eccentrically load. That's a detriment. They say that's a feature and a benefit. Now why? Yes, eccentric tends to build a lot of muscle, but eccentric also causes the most damage. So I can add the sled and add volume to a routine while minimally and reduce risk substantially. Yeah, while minimally adding the fact that this person needs to recover a bunch more. So I wanna add volume, but I wanna be careful and not add too much intensity and I don't want the person overtrain. For example, you could push the sled almost every day and probably not, I mean, depending on the person's fitness level, not over train. And so that's a feature with a sled, not a detriment. Now back to the dumbbell barbell thing. Look, I'll say this. I think if we're talking pure hypertrophy, I would say dumbbells probably. Again, the best hypertrophy though would be a combination of the two. And that's really the key here is to utilize all these things and strength is strongly related to muscle size. It's so stupid to say it isn't. It's so closely related, especially in the first few years of training. Like the first few years of training, try building muscle without getting stronger. Good luck. It's not gonna happen. The way you build muscle, especially in the first couple of years of training is by getting stronger. Now eventually you hit certain limits and you can't keep getting stronger forever. And then you could play with some different stuff. But strength and muscle are both, I mean, what's- They both hold a lot of value. They do. This is a silly question to me. So it's dumb to say that. But yeah, barbell versus dumbbell- But that's why it's happening. You're right, Justin. I pointed out something that is really popular right now. And it is this hypertrophy crowd that wants to say, oh, that's so stupid to use that tool. Or they wanna pick apart somebody who's advocating for a tool like a sled and be like, that's like the same crowd that says that deadlifting is such a stupid exercise for your back because it's a glute dominant exercise. Why would you call it a back exercise? It's just like, it's so silly. It's again, it's half of the motivation for starting this podcast was to have conversations around these type of nuances because the fitness space loves to, you know, put everybody in these boxes and getting camps. And my way is better in your way. And the truth is like, if you have access to barbells and dumbbells and you wanna build a sculpted badass physique, don't you dare neglect one or the other. No, analyze both. Here's something fun you could do if you've been working out for a long time. Just do dumbbell overhead presses or dumbbell shoulder exercises for two months. Or just do barbell exercises for two months. Alternate that way. And then just notice the differences. And that's where my advice comes from. Like my quick advice of a kid, because this has been, I've had these questions asked me my whole career where someone walks up to me, interrupts my workout, asks a very specific question like this and the best quick answer I could give them without assessing them and training them for a long time would be like, what have you been doing? You wanna build more muscle on your shoulders? What have you been doing? Do you do more dumbbells? Do you do more barbells? Oh, you do almost always barbells? Go do dumbbells. Yeah, do the other one. Yeah, or vice versa, right? That's really the short answer. Next question is from Robin Lyons. Can you recommend a good protein powder that doesn't contain whey? Yeah, you know why this is a good question? Because whey protein, first of all, I wanna talk about the benefits of whey protein. Whey protein, and you know what's funny, by the way, before the fitness industry figured this out, whey was the part of the milk that they threw away. You couldn't sell whey. You know this, you worked in a dairy. You would toss it, toss it, right? But they figured that whey is very high in essential amino acids, very high in branched amino acids. It's for people who can tolerate it, very bioavailable. It's got immune-boosting properties. One of the best muscle-building proteins that exists. And simultaneously, it mixes very easily in a liquid, so it's like the perfect protein powder. Like if you've ever tried whey and other, and you've tried like other protein powders, you know that whey tends to mix very well and tastes very good. It's not as grainy and like, yeah, it blends really nice. Blends very well, so it's the best. Of all the proteins, you can get protein powders whey is definitely the best one. But if you're like me, I can't tolerate any dairy. So I can't have whey, I can't have casein, I can't have any, even if it's lactose-free, it bothers my gut, so I have to go with other options. What are some of those better other options? Well, if you stick to animal sources of protein, which tend to be better if you're gonna go gram per gram, you could buy egg protein powders. Egg protein powders, however, they tend, because it's high in, I think sulfur, tends to cause pretty bad farts. A lot of people will say that, and I've noticed that myself, and I've had clients notice that, but if it doesn't, egg is really good. You could do collagen. Collagen's got some benefits, but it's not the best muscle-building protein gram per gram, but it's got some other health benefits. And then you can go vegan. Now with vegan protein, what you'll see is, what you want to stay away from are single sources of vegan protein, like just soy or just pee, because vegan sources of protein, you're better off with the combination. It gives you a more balanced amino acid profile. So the one that I use, obviously, we've been working with OrganiFi for a long time, their plant protein is the best one that I've ever used. And I've used plant proteins now for 15 years, and I've gone brown rice protein, I've gone soy protein, I've gone pee protein. OrganiFi is this blend of different vegan sources, and it's very easy to digest, and I feel really good on it. So that's the one that I would recommend. Now, since you recommended OrganiFi, I think it's a good opportunity also to talk about buying protein powder based off of price, because I think that's probably been the number one thing that I've had to discuss with clients when I talk about protein powders, because even well before we worked with OrganiFi, or OrganiFi even existed, I was a trainer, and I'd recommend a protein powder, I'd always recommend a couple of brands that I really liked, and my clients would always come back, it was the constant battle, like how did you get your protein powder? I'm like, oh yeah, no, I found this one. They will always find the cheaper one, because they're always trying to save money, and they'd be like, oh, the one you recommended was like 60, 70 bucks, I found this one for 35 for whatever, and it's like, the supplement industry is not regulated, so going for the cheapest supplement product is most often not the best strategy. You have to explain what makes a good quality protein powder and why you're spending more money, because I know when people see OrganiFi, OrganiFi is on that upper tier of price point for what they have. Well first off, protein powders are very low margin supplements, a lot of people don't know this, but supplement companies don't make huge profits off protein powders, because it's so competitive. That's right, I'm talking about 10, 15%. Yes. That's such a good point. That's all supplements, protein powders are smaller, because the way, you know where they make their margins, pre-workouts and other stuff. It's the protein powders are low because it's such a competitive market. In fact, supplement companies often will be okay with like a one or 2% margin, knowing that they'll bring people in to buy their other products. So why am I saying this? Because there's not a lot of room to cut price unless you cut quality. This is where you see the difference. What do I mean by quality? Well first off, supplement companies, big ones have been caught and busted for doing things like amino acid spiking. So if a company says it's 30 grams of protein per scoop and a company comes in to test that, the way they test that is they don't test all the amino acids, they'll test one. Okay, 30 grams of protein of way should have this much leucine in it. So they'll test the leucine and then they'll confirm, oh, it's got 30 grams of protein. What these shady supplement companies were doing, and there were a few that got busted, literally, legally, is they would just spike it with leucine to make it cheaper. So then when you test it, oh, 30 grams of protein. In reality, it was like 15 grams of protein per scoop. So you're paying less, but you're getting way less protein. Not getting 30 grams, you're getting 15 grams. Then there was the whole issue that happened, I think four or five years ago, where vegan protein powders were getting tested and found to have dangerous levels of heavy metals. Which is especially alarming if you can't have way, and your options are limited, but now a lot of these vegan proteins that are out there have this toxic amount of metal that you're gonna be consuming with that. You take it every day, your body doesn't get rid of heavy metals very well. And that can cause some serious problems. And it was the organic ones. Why? Because organic pesticides sometimes can cause high levels of heavy metals. The good companies were testing for all of this, and were making sure that it wasn't in there. The cheaper ones didn't pay for that kind of stuff. So you really get what you pay for when it comes to protein powders. Is it still examine.com is one of the better places you can kind of check a lot of these companies and their track record? I don't think you can check companies, but they'll break down. What you wanna look for with a company are third-party tests. Like how many third-party companies go in, test them? Can you get the report? Like you can call OrganiFi and ask for third-party testing and they'll send them to you. So it's very, very good quality. And again, remember you're consuming, most people who take protein powders take them almost every day. So something you take that often, you want it to be really good quality. You don't want it to be bad quality because it's something you're putting your mouth over. If it's significantly cheaper, you should ride away, that should be a red flag because of what you said, it's 10 to 15% margins. That is so small. And that's because all of these companies are getting the main stuff, like the actual protein powder or whatever they're fortifying it with from all the same places. So if you're actually getting what it says in there, it costs about the same for everybody. So their prices have to be somewhat competitive. So if someone is $20, $30 cheaper, a jug than this other company, then something's probably going on. They're either spiking some bullshit or they're exaggerating because it doesn't have to be FDA approved. So they're not regulated. So you have to look for, or they were not paying for third-party testing, which cost companies money to do that also. Look, supplements are, I am a big advocate for keeping supplements unregulated because I think if they're regulated, it would destroy the whole market form. We would have way less variety and all that stuff. But that also places more responsibility on the consumer. And I tell you what, you can look them up. Look at all of the independent research that's gone into some of these companies. Like there was one study where they went and tested 12 brands. I think it was 12 from Target. So I went and tested 12 of them. I think one of them had what they said they had in it. The rest were all garbage. So you're looking at 90% of them were complete garbage. Some of them had stuff in there that they couldn't even identify. Then there's supplement companies that got in big trouble because they sold supplements with pharmaceuticals in them. Oh, so and this has happened to athletes where they get popped for certain types of illegal substances but because they were mixing it all within the same place like it was getting traced remnants of those within the proteins, the pre-workouts and they would get like illegal stimulants in there and other things. So it's like, yeah, you just really gotta be conscious of how the company operates and how clearly they test. Next question is from randomly Randy. How much is too much for trigger or focus sessions? First to find the difference between the two. Yeah, so okay. So trigger sessions are found in our program maps in Ebola. Focus sessions are found in our program maps aesthetic. So for people who don't have those programs what a trigger session is is on the days off. So you're not going to the gym today, it's a day off. Essentially a trigger session would be a five to eight minute light band workout where you could focus on target body parts or doing four or five exercises, different body parts. And the goal is to get a little bit of a pump and to kind of feel the muscles working a little bit. And you do those maybe two or three times a day on your off day. So five minutes in the morning, five minutes afternoon, five minutes at night and you get this little pump. And what it does is it, the theory is it maintains the muscle building signal that you sent with your hard workouts and the evidence which is anecdotal. We don't have studies on this yet but actually there are studies that support it but not specifically for trigger sessions. But what people are saying is it does it builds more muscle, I recover faster and it's something that's very valuable. So that's a trigger session. Focus session is a little more intense. It's focused on a body part that's a lagging body part and it's also on a quote unquote off day. So if today's an off day and I have a lat my calves are weak or my glutes are weak, I go to the gym and I typically pick two or three isolation exercises or machines and I work that muscle and the intensity is higher with that than a trigger session but it's not like your normal high intensity workout. So the question is how much is too much? Well, if your normal workout is a 10 in terms of intensity, a trigger session is like a three, okay? A focus session would be like a six, probably like a six or seven. So just to give you an idea of how intense they should feel, if you do trigger sessions and it's a seven or eight and you're doing them several times a day on your off day, you're gonna over train. And if you do a focus session at a 10 like you do normal workouts, you're gonna over train. So it's very important to maintain that kind of lower intensity with them to make them really work. To add to that, I would say that, I would say trigger sessions and focus sessions are very different. Trigger sessions, I think of them more purely as a way to speed up recovery. Yeah, active recovery. That's all I'm doing. So I almost put it in the category of me stretching, like it's on that level of intensity. I am not, it's not intense at all. I'm not even breaking a sweat. It's literally just pumping some blood into the muscle with some rubber bands. I never use dumbbells. I sometimes use body weight, but even rarely body weight because body weight can be even more than enough. So it's a real, real light pump. And I think of that. A focus session is a workout in the gym, but we're just picking exercises that are isolation, like cable machines, right? Tri-set push downs, you know, cable curls, laterals, like these very light type of movements. But I'm getting after it, but- Like what other people call finishers. Very good. Yeah, yeah, kind of like that. Like a bunch of finisher exercises on a day. So like what would a chest focus session look like, for example? Like a cable fly would be that. Yeah, a cable fly would be a great focus day. So, and a cable fly can be pretty intense. So that's why I don't like using like intense because you can get after it, but it's not gonna do as much damage as a barbell bench press. So, but it's still a workout. I mean, when I'm doing focus sessions, I will probably get a little bit of a sweat still. I'm definitely gonna get a massive pump. I'm gonna feel burning in the muscles. Like it's a workout. You're picking less intense exercise. That's right. I'm not doing any heavy barbell lifting. I'm not doing any compound lifts. We're doing all the machines and the cables, right? That's what I'm doing. I'm still getting after it, but I'm doing machines, cables, isolation type movements. It is a workout. We're trigger sessions that where people mess up, I think there's more on trigger sessions. I think people over apply intensity on our trigger sessions and think you're supposed to do these, like it's a workout. It's not where focus sessions is more like that. Yeah, and I'll say this, like doing those properly, either trigger sessions or focus sessions, you will notice within a week or two, they do add value to your workout. They really do. They don't sound like it when you hear a low intensity, like I'll just skip it or whatever. Try it out. Be consistent for a week or two. You'll notice a difference within that week or two because they do make that big of a difference. Next question is from Cole Rowe. Is there a superior form of cardio? For example, would it be better to run, do hit or just go ham on an assault bike? I can't answer those questions. I don't know what you're after. There are superior forms of cardio depending on the goals. Well, that's the thing against the person. Yeah, like what are you trying to accomplish? What type of endurance are you trying to achieve? Is this going towards a sport? Is this just going towards your lifestyle and like something that you enjoy? Or body composition. Or body composition. Though those are all different goals that you have to consider. I'll say this, obviously it depends on the person's goals and all that stuff, but if I'm talking about overall general activity, health, also the ability to maintain consistency so it's gotta be somewhat convenient. So like all those in all together, walking would be the one that I, that's the one I recommended the most to most people. Now remember, I trained everyday average people for the most part. Yeah, for general health, you're right. But I mean, this is a one, I mean, anytime somebody asks what's the best exercise for this or what's the best mode of cardio for, it's like the answer should, a good trainer should always say it depends because it totally depends on what you've been currently doing and what your specific goal is because all the examples this person gives, the head, the going ham on the assault or running, like all those things you could use for different goals based off of what you're trying to call or based off of what you were currently doing. So you may have a goal and I may say, like let's say it's body composition, but you have already been doing it for the last three weeks and you go, I wanna know what the best one is and maybe I was gonna say hit but then I found out you've been doing it for the last three weeks that no longer is for body composition because your body's adapted to that already. So- Or maybe your body's already on the brink of overtraining and you're stressed and I'm not gonna have you do hit because of that. I'm like, oh, you're gonna do some light walking because you need something that's more recuperative. It's like going to the doctor and without saying anything else, but hey doc, what's the best medicine for me? Could you imagine a doctor just throwing medicine at you? Here you go, try this, you know, this will work for you. Like how do you know, right? You have to know what you're, it's all based off those things. The superior form for you is what's gonna be the superior form for you and maybe not somebody else. I do find it helpful if people, well, I guess like what we like to talk about and people think that we're against cardio for some reason just because we, it's because it's always a dressing body fat composition and that's the go to button for a lot of people to just all of a sudden now I'm just gonna increase cardiovascular work to be able to, you know, affect my composition. But one thing that I think people always overlook is the amount of steps per day and the overall activity. What matters is your overall activity at the end of the day. And so if, especially if it's a composition goal, if you're not considering that, you're not tracking that, like you're doing yourself a disadvantage. Yeah, I got in my best, my best health overall, what I mean by that is just feeling good, good quality of life comes from when I add about three walks a day. Breakfast, like morning, afternoon and evening for about 15, 20 minutes each time. I just feel the best doing that. Now it's not the best form of cardio for me for like athletic performance, but when it comes to just general, like I feel good, that one tends to work the best. And that's usually what I would recommend to most people because most people that I would train were not interested in, you know, high intensity athletic performance. They were interested in fat loss of course, but that was like diet and strength training. But they were just, you know, I want to be healthy, I want to feel good. Well, that's also because what you're doing is you're also calculating or factoring in consistency. Totally, 100%. So you're not, you're not just thinking about what's the best mode that's going to burn the most calories. What's the easiest to stay consistent? Yeah, and what's going to get into their goal the fastest, you're also thinking longevity of like, okay, if I tell this client, you know, who never does hit cardio that, hey, do hit every day, you know, for the next three weeks and we're going to get in the best shape, like, okay, well, sure, maybe I help her or him get in better shape between now and then. But like long-term, what happens if that, does that person keep it up? Versus, could I convince this, this client that getting up, you know, a half hour earlier every day before work and taking a nice half hour walk and then ending their day every day with another half hour walk, you know, at the end of the night with their spouse or something like that. And then that becomes a lifelong thing that they do forever. I'm doing such, I'm doing such a better service to that person for body composition, for overall health, for everything by convincing them to do that mode. Even though in a, again, this is why I always get on the whole, like when people love the tout studies, a six-week study that you're going to lose. A six-week study of comparing someone doing hit every day to somebody who gets, you get them to walk. Well, the hit one is going to show greater fat loss or better muscle performance or you're going to see better, but you can't just stop there. You have to think about this over in a period of- Your life is longer than six weeks. Like, you know, you've got to think about it this way, right? So like, you've got to think beyond six weeks. This is forever. What's going to work? I want what's going to work for me long-term. Not what's going to- And let's have a specific goal. Like if I'm going to go, you know, compete in something 12 weeks from now, well, yeah, now it's a 12-week timeframe. Otherwise, the timeframe is forever. And, you know, I hope to live a very long time. Look, if you like the show, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have free guides, a bunch of them that you can download and learn from. And it's our way of giving back to our audience. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam. And you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal. How do I incorporate cardio and not lose muscle? Seen people do this before where they'll start to lose the sharpness of their muscles or they'll start to lose the sculpt a little bit. And that's disheartening. But if you do it right, then you minimize that muscle loss or that metabolism slowdown. In fact, if you do it right, you can actually speed up your metabolism at the same time that you build stamina and endurance. You just have to be able to kind of program it properly. And the way to program it improperly is just to go do it as much cardio as you can for as long as you can. Right.