 what's up everybody look you've probably heard of the peptide bpc 157 often referred to as Wolverine serum you know Wolverine the comic book character whose body heals so fast he's basically invulnerable anyway this peptide speeds up healing like all tissue healing injuries gut healing muscle recovery remarkable it's a remarkable peptide it's one of the most studied and one of the most well-known and in today's episode we have the world's foremost authority on peptides dr. Seed this person is the one that basically wrote the book on this stuff he is the authority we wanted him on the show to talk about this peptide in particular so that's what this episode's about we know you're gonna enjoy it by the way we're gonna do a giveaway with this episode like we do with all of our other episodes in this one I'm gonna give away the super bundle there's like five maps programs in that here's how you can win leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours it would drop it subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications and then if you win we'll let you know the comment section one more thing we have a sale going on right now the starter bundle is 50% off and maps starter is 50% off you can find both of those by clicking on the link at the top of the description below one more thing if you want to use peptides if you want to experiment with these are use these to speed up healing to boost growth hormone fat loss muscle growth don't go through the gray market crap that's online go through a doctor and a real legit licensed pharmacy go to MP hormones calm talk to a doctor there if you get peptides they work through a real pharmacy so you're not putting crap into your body it's legit stuff again it's MP hormones calm all right here comes a show doctor seeds welcome back to the show thanks for having me yeah these are great so we wanted to talk about BPC 157 I mentioned that to you I said hey I want to do an episode on this peptide because it's just it's probably one of the widest most widely used I would say peptides just generally speaking you mentioned that you also wanted to talk about if we were to talk about BPC GHRP peptides growth hormone releasing peptides as well what's the connection why why talk about growth hormone releasing peptides and BPC 157 in the same podcast well so there and more so I think following this the concept of what you guys are behind you know BPC 157 is more of a recovery repair type of peptide it's a peptide focused on in I think it has that purpose and serves that purpose best in recovering repair and in for injury or for training and in in combining so what I was talking about where GHRH is and GHRP so growth hormone releasing hormone growth hormone releasing peptides so there's the GHRH's are like the CJC's the Tess Morellen the GHRPs are like the Ipma Morellen the GHRP26 the MK0677 so they're different and I'll go through that again real quickly but what the what I was trying to say is that that platform of those type of peptides together I think you could I could do fine if I could tell you and it's actually you know where I started you could change most everything as far as efficiency in the cell for most people with just those three peptides you don't need to mess you if you just had those in your armatarium in your toolbox in combination with diet exercise sleep all the things that are you know we find important you're gonna you're gonna just you're gonna change people's lives for the better and you're gonna improve site of protection of cells and you're gonna improve efficiencies of the cell and BPC work in the CJC Ipma Morellen's those things work well because BPC will increase growth hormone receptors on cells and enhance what you're doing with the GHRHs and GHRPs because you're trying to you're trying to you're trying to make the most out of these signaling agents you can and one of the I think one of the significant and and the GHRHs GHRPs they enhance androgen receptors on cells so they'll make your antigens work better well let me okay hold on so BPC up regulates growth hormone receptors correct so for people listening growth hormone attaches to a receptor that's how it tells the body what to do BPC increases the number of those receptors so now whatever growth hormone you have becomes more effective in essence correct and then the GHRs and GHRPs these growth hormone releasing type peptides or compounds they up regulate androgen receptors which is what testosterone attaches to correct wow it's like a it's a so there's a synergistic correct very synergistic effective I call it a platform I'm like okay we're setting this platform for you to take advantage of all the things you're doing right or doing well and to make you know my my belief in in improvement in in training of lifting or athleticism is always maybe not not the specific exercise at the time because all those things keep changing it's actually the recovery and repair in between that differentiates people that really can accelerate or and that want to continue or and makes the most out of how muscle breaks down and how it rebuilds and those three peptides are focused exactly on that because the downstream receptor so you you're okay so you're using BPC that is improving some other growth receptors and other growth factors in the cell in particular increasing the the growth hormone receptor you're using these GHR agents GHRPs to improve the physiologic release of growth hormone plus they have their own receptors they work on which I can get into but let's just say now you've got your receptors working better you've got growth hormone that's that's getting to the cell better well what's that doing well that's creating the environment to improve the IGF one production which is the downstream product of growth hormone which is IGF one is like the key to maturation proliferation differentiation of of like myoblasts or or muscle cells you know when you when you work out and you break down a muscle you have satellite cells that sit around this thing called the sarcolemma and the satellite cells by the action of trauma they are activated and they actually release a they release their own IGF one EC which is known as mechanical growth factor MGF people probably don't know that peptide it's MGF that creates the ability to start changing that satellite cell which is stem cell into a myoblast and then those myoblast fuse to the muscle fibers to rebuild hypertrophy yes I just read a study on that by the way where the speculation was on hyperplasia but they saw study no no they're actually fusing we've known that forever everybody's yeah but that's awesome that you know that's awesome yeah that's exactly what happens and you're making muscle fibers like bigger by fusing with other rather than creating more muscle yeah yeah yeah I just read that studies pretty remarkable so is that debunk our our thought process around what happens to some of these like massive bodybuilders from over time their muscle fibers just become rather than creating more muscle fibers which what what people thought hyperplasia you're just making them permanently bigger to some extent correct and they're just very they're significantly hypertrophied and but you're adding you can make you you can to some degree you can make more you can make some more myoblasts okay you can you can build some um but it's not it's incremental and it you know those guys those massive changes happen just don't happen overnight I mean it takes them a little time that's years and years yeah yeah so yeah so so it happens but it's all about so what I was getting what I what I was trying to say is that's that downstream IGF one that's really the key from growth hormone it's it's one of the key players in recovery and repair of muscle IGF one it's insulin like growth factor right that's what's correct that's the when people talk about the muscle building effects or potential of growth hormone right when bodybuilders will take it yeah really it's not the growth hormone it's the IGF one exactly causing all that because they'll take growth hormone but that causes your liver to produce more IGF one well it's in stages so the growth hormone starts it it starts this incredible cascade of other of other biochemical pathways so it's remember the thing I talked about amp k yeah so it starts that activation of amp k that will start this process of influencing PGC one alpha that influences another factor that's a that is a for mitochondrial biogenesis it's for increasing mitochondria it's for improving fat oxidation it it like starts doing all these things that are what catabolic that start cleaning up a cell but then it also goes down this pathway of producing IGF one that's all about building and working with building and with the activation of mTOR down the road so there it's a it's a concert it's an orchestra that works together now is this why it anecdotally right in the because bodybuilders have always been the I mean they're the experimental cosmonauts right they're the ones that go out and just do crazy stuff experiment on themselves and then you get a bunch of anecdote and sometimes they're wrong sometimes there's a quite a bit of insight which is really interesting they'll always talk about how well you know growth hormone doesn't really it builds muscle when your testosterone is really high otherwise it doesn't do a whole lot is it that synergistic effect where the IGF one is improving the potential for this proliferation but you need the signaling from the testosterone to really make it happen or is it just so subtle that unless your testosterone is there you're not going to see a huge effect it's a it's everything together okay and and um it the the it really is it the IGF one is none of this happens unless you're stressing the muscle so you could take all the testosterone you want and all IGF one there's no orders to build your organs might grow if you take too much you'll get you know those turtle stomachs and stuff that people don't know they get because they're taking too much IGF one by themselves or growth hormone they're they're super physiologic doses but they you have to have the stress mechanisms of the weight training to make those things work okay now how significant is the rise in IGF one in a typical healthy individual who takes let's say ibutomorin or CJC or like what is it what does it look like when you're measuring and are there people who are non-responders i've heard this where some people take these things and just nothing happens to the IGF one or is that a myth so that's where people get caught up in the measuring if you're measuring IGF one you're just going to lose on this because it's it's a very quick response it's a physiologic response meaning you're not going to really you're getting enough you're getting enough in this cell to do its work um you're not you're not necessarily making the liver pump out a ton of IGF one itself um most of the things like the all the ISO IGF one divides into three isoforms IGF one a IGF one IGF one a IGF one eb and IGF one ec ec is the mechanic is like mechanical growth factor but what those are those are just all little isoforms that are active in growth and maturation proliferation of cells that are local in a cell there are local like in the in the satellite cell in the muscle cells that are released that make things happen so it's all at a local level um so you're making the cell release this you're not it's not like you're sending a signal and the liver's making all this IGF one and it's going out throughout the body that occurs if you're going above physiologic levels of growth hormone or you're you're using exogenous growth hormone or use you're using IGF one by itself as a peptide which you can use to enhance muscle growth and injury repair that's a it's a great tool to use for that then you're you you're going to raise levels you know serum levels of IGF one so what i'm saying is physiologic releases of IGF one are just they're there when you need it and it's not like you're sustaining these high levels they're they're not going beyond a super physiologic level does that make sense it does it does are are there any worries so people get caught up and trying to like i've had arguments taking growth hormone or something is what like like people get caught up because it compared to like correct yeah you're not going to if you're taking growth hormone you're going to increase you know you you're going to increase your IGF one levels because you're constantly bleeding growth hormone there there's no growth hormones meant to be pulsed it's meant to be pulsed throughout the day biggest pulse at night it can be anywhere from three to six to eight pulses in some people but it's meant to be pulsed every three hours when you take exogenous growth hormone that means it's stimulating 24 seven it's not pulsing it's you've all of a sudden got this growth hormone in that and that's what causes like negative feedback issues and all these causes cell senescence it causes all of these problems that people have no idea that's happening when they're using it but but that release of of growth so so then you're not pulsing you're just getting constant stimulation of that growth hormone receptor that's making IGF one continuously so you're going to get a rise in IGF one that's going to be super physiologic that you're going to see in the serum in the blood are there any worries with grow anything that you know growth hormone releasers or growth hormone releasing peptides in regards to insulin sensitivity or issues with blood sugar because I know that growth hormone and insulin I don't know they're somewhat inversely related right like you don't want if your people with disorders where they produce too much growth hormone tend to become diabetic if people with who will have lots of insulin tend to have really low growth hormone yeah is there any worry that if I go on one of these and I take them that I could develop issues with insulin sensitivity no and in fact the the best the best studies have been in the specifically with AIDS patients that have significant lipidistrophy where they have incredible amount of fat around their organs and tessa maryland specifically is is for them right exactly that's where all the researcher from tessa maryland came from from AIDS and you know what it's what what you're doing with a growth hormone releasing hormone or a GHRH like tessa maryland is your you're really setting so one of the pathways we didn't talk about is your you're setting the cell up to not utilize glucose but to utilize fat as its primary substrate or it's for oxidation to make ATP basically to make energy and so you're up you're you're getting that system back on track basically again these are you can always look at these as modulators because what they're doing is just letting the cell get back to where it was again and that's what tessa maryland is help it has it shows that you're utilizing fat as its oxidative substrate to make ATP so in the beginning like when people use tessa maryland they may sometimes see their their glucose might be a little higher for a little bit or they may have more um they're they're just starting to use their fat it's it's like it's a little counter-intuitive but you're you want more fat to utilize fat but in order to utilize more fat you have to make more mitochondria well i see well the the GHRH is remember what i told you that pathway ampicade a pgc one alpha to start this the the the cell to transcribe more mitochondrial biogenesis to make more mitochondria well that's what you're doing you're making more mitochondria to use more fat so you're catching up eventually to start so initially you'll see higher glucose a little bit because you're using more fat but then the mitochondria catch up yes and then you're okay yes so there's an adaptation yes yes wow that makes a lot of sense yeah it happened it can happen with people just doing ghr you know like cjc and ip amaryland they can see things like that at the beginning and that's why you don't get hooked into looking at those parameters you're you've got to think about what are you doing down the road to improve insulin sensitivity because because what you're doing you know like what does exercise do so like diabetics that are insulin resistant right they can't get glucose into muscle muscles your biggest endocrine gland it needs glucose well exercise turns off that mechanism and it it transports this glute4 transporter to the muscle that just brings glucose in with exercise well the glp1 or the ghrh is ghrps they activate something called ampk and ampk activates those glute4 is to go to the cell to pull in glucose too got it so it's it's like an exercise mimetic but it's doing what exercise does but it's doing the same thing by the way this is why strength training is the most effective form of exercise in terms of insulin sensitivity of course you just have larger you know uh basically storage capacity correct and you increase all those glute4 correct receptors like crazy that's why we preach that um all the time well it's what it's you know it's great it's funny you bring that up i don't know why now all of a sudden now strength training is becoming a real important in health well have you heard of this podcast called yeah we're trying to take the time to promote it that way we've been preaching for eight years without that i think we're making it that way maybe okay then my hat's off to you guys i mean well that sal wrote that book what almost is it been three years now three years ago called the resistance training revolution and that was the idea behind it was uh well this is awesome then and i i didn't mean any disrespect no you didn't we're just fucking around we're just super narcissistic but you can be that's awesome because because right i mean i mean i'm i don't care if you can go out and run a two fucking or two miles or five miles or okay great but can you show me how many can you get off the floor you know can you i mean it's all about functionality and strength and and i can tell you from a whole different perspective you know um by the way i'm also an orthopedic surgeon i'm sports train join train and i see all those people who say hey doc where my golden years go i'm like i saved up all this money i've worked so hard for 30 years and i i can't even walk with my wife down the street i can't i can't get off the out of the chair i can't and i saw that one as a younger physician day after day and i was just like what is wrong it's it's what you guys are professing i mean this is awesome i billy well it's the difference between catabolic exercise and anabolic exercise and so strength training is pro tissue and that the tissue that we just so i mean sarcopenia is i mean it's it's everywhere now yeah right that's like it's well yeah it's if you don't have muscle mass everything's going to go wrong i mean it's you gotta i can i just you gotta have muscle but you know that's where all the science right now we're it's incredible where we are with looking at these things called myokines and extra kinds that are are actually produced by strength training by resistance training and in fact one of the bigger fields right now looking at this is cancer research because because there are these myokines that are being made that actually that act as um uh as inhibitors of certain processes that will propagate cancer or metastasis of cancer and that's that's a whole that's incredible that you got to get to this point to convince people how important strength training is you know to you got to get it to that state to show people like what was the study i'm gonna study your reference just the other day about bodybuilders oh so pro bodybuilders okay not healthy athletes like these are athletes that just pump themselves full of exogenous hormones and feed themselves ridiculous amounts and all kinds of huge amount of calories and so there was a study that was done on pro bodybuilder i'm not talking about people lift weights there's a big difference between you work out weights and then you go and try to compete in bodybuilding one's healthy one is extreme and unhealthy and they looked at the causes of death and heart disease was higher in pro bodybuilders kidney disease was higher in pro bodybuilders 15 lower chance of cancer these are guys that are taking growth hormone testosterone anabolic things that are at those levels are not good for you and yet muscle so protective against cancer that the rate of cancer got went down in these unhealthy individuals that's just how powerful of an anti-cancer effect muscle has correct it's pretty wild yeah it's amazing so on the on the growth hormone peptides i gotta ask you this because i've used them and they're feel very different from one another so i've used cjc tessa marilin ipa marilin i buta moran boy do they feel different i buta moran in particular feels very different from the others so uh and i'm gonna this is just from what i understand so i'm not by no means a uh you know an expert on this but it's a ghrelin mimic ghrelin is a hormone that makes you hungry so i definitely notice an appetite increase but my strength increases on i buta moran even right out the gates was uh substantial in comparison whereas the others felt much more subtle like what's going on or am i just am i just not seeing the fact that maybe i'm eating more because of the the ghrelin you know effect so twofold um one it is it it is a stronger um it's not it's that's this is we're talking about mk0677 yes it's oral and you're were you taking which which dosage were you taking oh gosh i don't know 25 milligrams does that sound right once a day or twice once a day okay at night okay that's brilliant so there's 12.5 twice a day or that you can do 25 twice a day or 25 one in the morning or at night i think that's what i did at night yeah so what you're doing is with that is it's a mimetic meaning it's not a it's not quite a peptide but it mimics the ghrelin like peptide which is the ghrp um that increases your appetite let that some of them don't so you're you're you're already turning on some aspects of mTOR it's more mTOR specific but you are interesting but what you're doing is you're actually mk0677 does have a higher increase in IGF one okay so just more anabolic correct and it's more um because it has a better effect on pulling glucose in a muscle so it pulls water in with it too oh yeah i felt that 100 percent i got my muscles got really full like i was carb loaded or something in a very short like within four or five days yeah i think it's a great peptide and i think it's a great peptide to cycle i don't think it's a great peptide to stay on for a long period of time because of some of the some of this this discussion i've had with you that you brought up about saturation of receptors got it and specifically in the brain um just the worry about this is one of them if so GHRH is you can never saturate a GHRH receptor but GHRPs you can and so that's where you gotta be i just think you gotta you gotta know the that that's possible and and so you use it for three or four months and you go off of it that's what i've done i've done two to three at a time yeah another reason why you should do this with a physician for that exact reason certain ones that can get saturated someone that don't so oh if i did this like an idiot i would never stop right because i feel it and it feels so great i like the the sleep that i got on it was that was one of the most profound things that i found from my butamorne was the sleep that i got so all of them will so that's so what you're doing is um your increase so sleep is four stages your recovery and repair of muscle is the biggest part of that with is stage four sleep and actually growth hormone your highest level of when you're younger of growth hormone release is that first cycle stage four sleep at night and that's that's when you get better sleep and so that's actually what it's doing it's reinforcing that pulse of growth hormone at that time and in fact it has this incredible effect on um just like all the ghr just ghrp is on improving glimphatic drainage that's like the toxin release of the brain it's lymph you have lymphatics in your brain and growth hormone is necessary to release the glimphatic to to let the system drain and it does it in stage three four sleep at night oh interesting it's another reason like brain recovery basically oh yeah it's why it's why people it's why as you get older it's another function of why we believe inflammatory aspects happen in the brain because the drainage isn't the way it's supposed to be interesting so so as you as you start learning all of these things and you start seeing how much of a change they make in mechanisms and pathways you start like my mind started going well gosh wish i would have started this when i was younger wish i would have been like at this age doing this because i might be at a better stage to protect myself later you know that's these the cytoprotection is huge i think for all of these peptides just like talking about the ghrh or the glp1 receptors um same thing i actually wanted to bring it back a bit to the to the bpc 157 and the delivery of that in terms of like oral versus you know taking an injection and and sort of the localized effect of that the healing effect um like what the difference is between um you know both of those kind of strategies so i'll tell you the first thing i'll tell you is i don't know if any of us really have the answer to what's better but i will tell you i was always the i was always the one saying that it had to be injectable and it was more site specific and i think that's true if you're working on injury bpc 157 works much better site specific um doesn't have pull the bicep boom right in the bicep yeah or in the subq it doesn't have to be in the tendon it just can be subq it can be proximal correct okay um and i that's just trial and error and i'm just telling you that's that's how it works it's it's best if you're using it in that capacity for repair of an injury and then once the injury is let's say you've gotten over it then you can use it you know around the hip area to be a general to be systemic that's for injury for oral i think it has a much bigger place for the gut microbiome and dysbiosis and things like that now can it work does it work for people that have pain and issues like that if you take it orally yes it does so there is a systemic effect somewhat yes yes yeah but yeah absolutely um i'm just saying in my in the way i practice with using that peptide and and it was just trial and error was listening again to my patients and finding out that boy when you go site specific big difference as far as just taking it you know around the hip area and then expect it to do as good a job um you know for let's say a lateral epicondylitis of the elbow or something and i inject in my hip is that as good as injecting around the subq tissue not going into the tendon because that you'll get into trouble but just getting in the subq or even going a little higher up in the arm you know around the triceps or something just close to the area made a much bigger difference if you were in that area interesting is that do you think that's because it's a it's more effective at healing locally or because there's a localized anti-inflammatory effect that just kind of it just gets right yeah it's more localized and it gets that signaling is much stronger so it just makes sense it's just there so i'm currently taking bpc with kpv orally okay and this is for gut health great now the bpc for gut health it's not correct me if i'm wrong um it's not antimicrobial what it does is in the gut is it is accelerating healing of let's say the mucosal lining or just gut inflammation and then the kpv is more of the antimicrobial or are they both doing something similar they're both doing something so the the bpc 157 is is certainly working on um on the gut barrier it's working on on cell adhesion improving the the permeability between the cells all the junctions yeah okay it's working also on on it's working on giving that cell the ability then because those cells you you mentioned antimicrobial well your best your best mechanism to to offset bad bacteria or viruses or fungus or anything like that are you make your own antimicrobials they're called catholestitins and they're which are peptides and your if you're making the cell barrier better if you're making the cell better you're improving the cell's ability to make those antimicrobials and to make and the and specifically those things called catholestitins and and there's also something called beta defensins which are other antimicrobials but the catholestitin i'm talking about there's one we know about called l l 37 that sometimes will use it's a it's a peptide that we use to work against dysbiosis and so forth if we're with bpc and kpv and so forth but so what i'm trying to say is bpc actually has it has so many indirect effects on the on the gut and and improving the microbiome and the kpv is a fragment of alpha melanocyte stimulating hormone it's a three peptide sequence that comes it's the anti-inflammatory pathway our anti-inflammatory component of alpha melanocyte stimulating hormone which is amelocortin okay so is it gonna make me tan no okay it should not okay okay which one does that yeah those are melanocyte that those those are like like that's mel that's melanotan two and melanotan one okay those are like those like those those affect the melanin right in your skin they and yeah they increase melanogenesis okay okay but that won't my legs could use that yeah start rubbing some kpv all over your legs yeah yeah so this so this is that fragment that was pulled okay and that has anti and has another way of working against inflammatory cytokines and chemokines and so forth and they make again hence they make this this environment better for your anti-microbials to work your antivirals and your antifungal things is it fair to say then that bpc essentially improves your body's cells ability to do what they normally do so you've got wide-ranging effects because of that property it helps your cells just heal faster not be damaged as much and therefore do what they do better yeah this is this is interesting you say this so i i had so i had a relationship with the Croatians that have the patent for bpc they created bpc this incredible team in particular doc who who developed bpc and found it and and wrote all of those all those papers we read that are all the animal studies he wrote his team basically wrote everything on this and i used to he'd i'd call him and talk to him about things that i was seeing and how i was using it and and he'd send me videos and showing me different animal like how he could activate a muscle when it was crushed and how just pouring bpc on the muscle would get it contracting again acutely oh it's amazing oh amazing like bpc is the real deal and and then i would start to talk to him and i'd say hey so you know we we need to talk more well let's talk about let me tell you what i'm doing with these other peptides and he he'd just laugh and stop there and he'd be like what are you you know what are you talking about william there's one peptide bpc don't talk to me about these other peptides i'd be like holy crimes that's funny because it helps because how profound it is i imagine how profound it is i mean if you like why talk about anything else this thing is so amazing we're still learning so much about it i imagine right that's his thought yeah it's it's the here is the you know it is the most widely used peptide that absolutely anybody who takes it can tell you it makes a difference yet the you know we have what now one one and a half two clinical studies on this now because it's not you can't patent it you know there's nobody that's going to put the money into studying this like it really needs to be studied because it should well it's just starting to happen now now there labs that are going after this now finally finally we're going to see some awesome awesome stuff on bpc now because bpc is uh like pro healing pro regenerative yeah does that make it pro proliferative for uh cancer um do you need to be careful great question because people you know it it in it's a modulator meaning so this is what this is the this is how i try to help people understand peptides peptides help the cell in a way that it can it you know cell always wants to correct itself it always wants to get on the right path it wants to make the right decisions the bbc you can consider it as something that's modulating the cell in the correct pattern because they we have we have studies that show that where you would think giving bpc in a cancerous state would create more angiogenesis you know more blood flow to a cancer more well actually does the opposite yeah it does the opposite um and it has to do with these uh veg f receptors and but it's it's in the state of the disease it's uh it's modulating so then would it be safe to say that because they use we've we've got clinical like there's there's studies out there now showing bpc used to help cancer patients that have been decimated by um radiation and chemotherapy who can't eat who can't well you give them bpc in that you're healing their gut right because you rip their gut apart and they gain weight they get stronger they get energy right away and um you're not seeing increased rates of cancer or you're not seeing any of those things you'd be concerned with so then is it safe to say that it's it's not making your recovery ability or healing ability above and beyond what your potential is correct okay it speeds it can speed things up it just makes sure it just makes sure you're on the right path okay to to that recovery and repair that that that the body typically goes through and an inflammatory response and a healing process there's there are all those steps that have to occur so i remember as a kid in my teens and 20s even early 20s i'd get an injury and i would heal two or three times as fast as i do now so essentially bpc is like hey your potential's still there this is why you're going to heal faster with me not we're going to make you heal faster than you ever could before we're going to force this thing to happen correct okay wow and it's just letting you again regain some of those efficiencies you had when you were younger that you had the ability you didn't have things interfering you didn't have that inflammatory process or those senescent cells around that that may not turn at the right time to help you heal or may work against healing you know cell senescence is a whole new world of understanding of how as we age as we grow we we harbor more senescent cells do you guys know what a senescent cell is a cell that is so when a cell starts doing things wrong in the body it sets off a program that basically says okay i either have to fix myself because cells have a cycle 24 hour cycle it says i got to fix myself and get things right or else i've got a disintegrate go through apoptosis or i have to have the immune system come in and take me out because i'll do harm well sometimes those cells say you know fuck that i want to i want to survive i don't i want to i want to live forever so they can stop their cell cycle and all of a sudden convert into a cell that is in a what an m-tor state and stays like that and almost becomes immortal it's a zombie cell yeah but it and it creates it just creates havoc and it'll make other cells into senescent cells and they build and they can build in the kidney they can build in the brain they can build in muscle they build around fat and so that it's just something over time that you keep accruing that you is they're difficult to get rid of and it's what happens as we age and they they're the ones that make the cytokines and chemokines and proteases that are pro inflammatory that affect other cells that make things go wrong so this is remarkable because um there's always this worry like if we if you take something that speeds up cell regeneration or you take something that's going to cause your cells to multiply or grow or strengthen there's the risk of oh could we amplify cancer could we cause cancer but in the example of when you were younger cancer rates and you know teenagers is like is almost zero yet they're they heal and recover at incredible rates and as you get older recovery goes down that doesn't mean your cancer rate goes down your cancer goes up so this is literally a balancing bringing you back to optimal essentially yeah and it's senescence is what leads to cancer that's what we're we're finding out senescence is the is the root cause of us of contributing to more cancerous cells or the the possibility of of a conversion into an oncogenesis are they easily detectable is there a way to test and find out so yeah so we're not in a lab and taking a biopsy and things like and looking for specific markers we can do that but right now are there tests that can do that no we're not at that stage invasive to do that yeah yeah and it's um you know these are all the so the you're you're you're seeing a big surge right now where you're going to hear more like nobody nobody talked about senescence ever before until we started talking about it a while back about hey this is what the focus in cellular medicine that was our focus it's always been senescence now it's becoming this just like peptides were nothing before this index big word is now senescence and so now you're seeing these people say oh you've got you know you got to get rid of those senescent cells you got to take this synolytic to to remove this cell and got to be real careful with that because you don't want to harm the good cells when you're trying to get rid of bad cells really hard to differentiate well it's one of those things why you know what's your best what's your best synolytic or synomodulator exercise diet those those really those set off the mechanisms to help the immune system to recognize these bad cells it's it all comes back to the immune system and metabolism is bpc the most you're the one peptide you you recommend or use the most with your patients i probably use it pretty universal yeah with most oh wow for about um that i uh most of the time yeah i would say just as big or maybe bigger is probably c max okay that's popular yeah it's like the two bangers i'm hungry right now so yeah you you mentioned earlier that uh you know with what you know now there might have been some things that you would have done earlier ages with peptides to maybe is bp 157 one of those that maybe you would have taken even when you were younger yes okay yes so what would that look like like if you're if you're bad if you could go back in time you you get to talk to 20 year old yourself how would you cycle something like bp would you just put take it indefinitely would you cycle it every six months like how would you do it you know that's a i don't have an answer for that specifically i and i'm not pushing that really but i'm thinking about it like i'm i just think in my own brain like it was me this is what i yeah this is you we're not prescribing to anybody else this is you what would you go do that i'm in trouble um i would be be in my drinking water i'd be it would be i would be doing it more for my microbiome and my gut i think than anything else and i would be taking it orally in lower doses like 250 micrograms um daily and i think it would be incredible benefit for me are you as an orthopedic surgeon have you like because obviously you have experience you're working on people's joints you know how fast generally takes something to heal you know what bad joints look like you know what they look like when they're good when you're using bpc or your patients are using bpc your orthopedic patients is it like night and day are you looking at them going wow this is like when you first started using this were you like this is wild yeah i mean that it even started with just using i mean if i could take a step back when i started just using oral collagen like collagen hydrosilate and getting my patients ready for surgery i was thinking i was you know i'm like okay i'm gonna get you ready for surgery you know i have 30 of those people coming back saying i don't need surgery oh so you killed your business yeah like i i did but it was it was pretty incredible right it's where i started this was 20 some years ago before they even wrote the paper on collagen like i was doing bone marrow stuff i was i just knew that it was something that could enhance healing because of what it does in the immune system all these things people don't know about but that we teach and i was seeing this happening in front of me and i'm like oh my gosh this is this is so simple and then great lakes had their uh collagen hydrosilate that came out of the kosher product in tub amazing product for pennies on the dollar and i just started putting i just everybody all my people just had to go on it and i get people like i'm feeling a lot better especially like for more four people that i thought needed a nearthroscopy you know that had some some degenerative cartilage changes maybe tundra malaysia yeah you know or meniscal terror or something that wasn't quite mechanical but they were having problems and and you put them on the collagen and they're like oh my god it it changed and it just that and so that's where that was what got me really going more towards okay you know all these biologics you know all these things that you're you've been studying for 40 years let's start implementing more and so that you know the bpc made a tremendous difference um but then at the time um you know it was tough because of who could afford to use it and and how to use that you know because it none of that is covered by insurance so that was always a difficult conversation but but the prices come down quite a bit for bpc oh it's from it's come down tremendously from when it was very difficult very very difficult to get well any areas of the body you see its effects be most pronounced or is it just generally great uh or types of injuries you see it be most effective for yeah i i want to say it just more like a cute type of things it you can really see changes quicker chronic type of injuries that's a little different ballgame that's where you got to use other combinations because you also might not be addressing the route like maybe it's a movement pattern or something that's yeah there's just a lot of other aspects of chronic injury that you got to address and there's more of the immune side that's come into this picture with the with chronic injury immune cells play a big role so bpc doesn't have quite the effect on the immune part of metabolism like things like thymus and beta 4 or thymus at alpha 1 or thymulin or epitalon or things that have a an impact on the immune system where you've got to address that first or you're never going to get through that chronic problem got it so so chronic issues then you'll combine them type of deal yeah yeah we've we've you know i'm using it now adam had a quad injury that keeps reoccurring he used it on his quad and use it first of my achilles it was it worked so well it was scary it worked like i when i did my achilles i was so nervous to sprint run do anything i could feel felt off didn't feel right even after it healed and so i finally got the bpc one this was like a couple years ago and i mean it was only a few shots into using it and it felt like there wasn't an injury anywhere which scared me i was just like it can't be that good already like so but it does yeah it's it's it's scary how effective it is yeah i think that's where it's made its mark is is in the acute side of being able to see what it can really do yes and um and that's the that's the other great thing about it you know you don't have to you you can cycle for a couple weeks two three six weeks on it depending on the injury and then you can be done with it i mean you don't these you don't have to keep taking it um my mindset is again more in the protective side and the recovery repair side because i want all those things working for me 24 7 are you seeing any benefits on um organs like if you take it orally do you see any like let's say with someone who has some maybe some liver damage or cirrhosis are we notice anything no i don't think you can make those statements that it improves fatty liver disease or they're different peptides for that got it got it well this has been awesome again dr seeds yeah this is every time i talk to you i get my mind blown with this information we'll just keep you anybody to note my son's back here this is like what do you call it uh you're you're building me up and he's going to get in the car go dad that you know they're full of shit yeah pumping your tires it doesn't even work like you know when you get a great lift in and you got him spotting and you go would you think he's like that wasn't bad it's impossible to be a profit in your own town man salad with sub he's got a teenager so yeah that's awesome what are what are your how is your workout if you don't want me to ask what kind of training do you do i'm curious uh it depends what my kids telling me they're doing because i got to keep up with them but i i try to do i'm big in strength and just pure strength um trying to keep some of those i'm i'm getting more and more into more body weight uh high repetition so i really mix it up you know i i do low intensity and high intensity because you gotta you gotta have both um you guys know i mean you gotta keep changing it right i'm i'm all over the gambit but i um i believe i believe in all the big lifts the you know the squat the bench and the um deadlift and uh probably as you get into my realm i mean the probably the bigger bigger exercise for me is the posterior chain in the reverse hyper and and keeping that function which i can tell you for me if i'm not on it i can that's a tough one you know you brought up something we we talked about this like i don't know maybe a year ago we're talking about uh i can make the case that i think the deadlift is the king of all exercise everyone says the squat is a king of exercises and my my argument for it was exactly that how much we neglect the posterior chain and then of course as we age and just everything is rounding and closing in so strengthening the opposing side just logically to me seems like the extra and then you get all similar benefits of all the muscles you're activating like in a squat you get most of those in a deadlift too so i made the case that deadlifting is the king of all exercises for that for that purpose yeah no it is if but the what's the hardest thing with that it's doing it correctly not overdoing it right especially as you get older because i get you know that that's probably the my my biggest uh probably the best thing i have going for me is my knowledge because it i get hurt all the time and i i have to i have to readjust right i have to okay i've strained a pack i got to go from flat bench to incline now for the next six months and and then you get into that incline you're like why am i going to go back to flat bench if i hurt myself it's like you i start thinking more about how i can't hurt myself yep and then i find a way to hurt myself he goes the enemy with it isn't it it's it's crazy but uh i will tell you though my son my kids have gotten more into more functional type of training like you know the the pull-ups the the hundreds of thousands of body squats or you know things that you just do over and over and i've been doing incorporating that yeah oh my gosh well that's the the beautiful relationship contrast but the two of those the two of those together if you can make a good body weight mobility routine with a heavy strength training routine you know the problem with all of us is that we all with all that knowledge and being science and fitness nerds is we also like to to to find the boundary the line right that line i do a little more let's see so i think that's a forever battle that i'll be trying to hit prs till i die i'm sure right yeah i i i yeah i agree with you 100 but that's what makes it fun and that's what makes it you and it makes it you know this is what i keep saying i don't know if this helps you with what you guys are doing but i really think that my i have tremendous kids i got incredible three boys that have grown up and you know i i couldn't say anything more about how amazing they all are but i really believe their discipline and all the things that the way they focus their lives i think it really started by working out and being disciplined and training and slowly not quickly but slowly seeing how things change and staying in that mode because my our at our house our living room was is a garage like when they needed to find me they came out or they came out and they worked out with me and it's i really believe that and i i hope that helps with people understanding that this stuff doesn't happen overnight it's uh it's a it's a it's a lifestyle you are preaching the fire absolutely absolutely i was i actually what i was um i'm talking too much but i was just talking to billy my son the other day i saw this picture of this guy who was lifting uh he was doing he was on an inclined bench and next to him was his little kid with a plaster with a play set and i said billy do you remember that because my kids i always had play sets for them to come out and bench and he's like yep i remember that's awesome that's awesome well thanks for coming on again dr seeds yep this is great no thanks for having me i really appreciate it guys and great message you're putting out there i i love it i appreciate it