 Welcome everyone, welcome to second day of our conference and I hope the keynote talk will sort of get us to a good start and our keynote today in the morning is Lucy Cromham Reed who's the chief executive of Wikimedia United Kingdom and I wanted to say that I'm very happy for two reasons to have this talk one is for me personally Wikipedia is the most important open project in the world I don't want to check whether you agree or not maybe the views are varied but I think I even forget how important it is you know it's an exemplary project that really I think is the biggest open community it's maybe the biggest open education project although we very rarely think about it that way I think I'm not sure too many people would say Wikipedia is an open educational resource I at least haven't heard it said that way so which brings me to the second point there are very interesting issues Wikipedia is now working through and I know Lucy is involved in that and she's been building a strategy here in the UK which will tackle issues around diversity and engagement and the sort of way the community looks and she will be talking about all these and I think these are crucial issues both for Wikipedia and more broadly for the open educational community and for the open community so for that reason I think Lucy is a perfect keynote for us she has also a background of over 20 years working both in the art sector she worked for the Art Council England for the sort of civil sector she worked with Refugee Council so it's also a very varied experiences and a point of view built on that that I think is very good for us in terms of talking about the politics of open so I would like to now invite Lucy that is magic I would just like to say that I was at the social evening last night and I have to stand up here and do this so if all you have to do is sit and stay awake with your coffee then I think you've got off lightly and but I just need to slip through my get my opening slide and thank you sorry I'm not very technical but don't tell anyone please and so I would just like to thank Josie and Alec Alec has basically made my point that I'm going to stretch over 30 minutes in 30 seconds so actually you could just get on with your email catching up on Facebook Twitter he said it all and I'm just sort of doing the padding now essentially but I did want to say thank you for inviting me here today I do feel hugely honoured and privileged to be talking to all of you and I was really inspired by my heart and Diana's keynote speeches yesterday which brought very different perspectives and practices and mine is different again almost as if by design but I generally come to these kind of events whether or not I'm speaking feeling like a bit of an imposter as neither a technologist nor an academic and both of those things I'm sure will become clear throughout my speech and but I've been struck this year at the conference by not only the tremendous passion and commitment that the people here bring to the subject of open and quite often it seems to me actually in the face of some resistance or even opposition from their own institutions but I've also been struck by the really wide lens with which the conference organisers and programmers have approached the topic of open educational resources is it a bit is there a bit of feedback would I be better with the handheld do you think I just want to make sure everyone can hear me okay fine and so some of the sub themes this year include local national and international I'm giving up sorry guys thank you and now I feel more at home like I'm doing the karaoke that's this I should have I should have gone with this all along I'll try not to break into any Adele Jolene is actually one of my numbers anyway so some of the sub themes of the conference are local and national and international policy and practice institutional politics participation and social equality and I feel absolutely certain that there are more people in that there are people in this room with much more knowledge than me and any of those subjects but the thing is we know now at least that the British people don't like experts they've had enough of experts so on that basis I feel very happy to be taking this stage and I feel when when Josie asked me to to give the keynote because I like to think about the big picture I thought that's really really exciting I can do that and then I thought oh wow the big picture at the moment hmm not so good and I was a bit overwhelmed by the sort of darkness and complexity of what was going on at the moment and it can feel like politics is in chaos truth is a chimera and social equality to me feels like it's further away than ever but I was reminded yesterday in the sessions that I was in and by the speeches that were made that actually the people gathered here at this conference are all here because we think that education can make the world a better place and that we think everybody deserves to have access to high quality educational opportunities and that those opportunities are underpinned by and supported by open educational resources so I believe and this is the point that I'm going to make that Wikimedia can play a really significant role in achieving those goals and they're actually working together we can create a better world through open knowledge addressing systemic bias and empowering learners so I'm going to talk today a little bit about Wikipedia I think you'll probably all know a little bit about it but I want to unpick that a little bit in terms of the way in which learners can engage with open knowledge and develop digital literacy through Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects I'm going to talk a bit about the work that Wikimedia UK does to support learners and educators and also as Alec alluded to the work that we're trying to do to build an inclusive online community and to address this address systemic bias and particularly to close the gender gap and if we have time I'm going to talk a little bit about how you how you might get involved in that process but I'm going to see how I go. As a word of caution to myself really I was really struck by some of the things that Maha was saying about the about the dominant forms of knowledge and the privilege of that entails and that for some people opening up content engaging online is a much much riskier activity than for others and I realized I absolutely bring my privilege to this talk so if that feels really striking to you then please tell me and say you know you need to look at this through a different lens and I will definitely try to do that so it has to be said I was really really chuffed when Jim Groom said this last year's OER in his keynote speech Wikipedia is the greatest open educational resource of all time and the fact that Jim said it last year means that I don't have to and is I mean regardless of whether you agree with that it is it is certainly a very very visible and mainstream open project and it is generally considered to be one of the most influential sources of information in the world and I think it's it's fair enough to say that a freely accessible website containing over 400 million articles in nearly 300 languages and created by a global community of volunteer editors is a pretty extraordinary achievement however a lack of diversity in its content and its community means that the information available can be biased and it can be incomplete and it can perpetuate those dominant forms of knowledge that we were talking about yesterday and also and I'm not sure if it's for this reason but the Wikimedia projects are often treated by caution in the classroom perhaps where teachers and educators are familiar with the verifiability guidelines on Wikipedia or indeed they're not aware of the other projects like Wikidata and Wikisource and Wikiversity and all of the resources that that project can bring so as the national chapter for the global Wikimedia movement Wikimedia UK believes that open access to knowledge is a fundamental right we believe it's a driver for social and economic development and I feel really passionately about the vital role that open knowledge can play in both formal and informal learning not just in this country but as a tool to help achieve universal education so I see education as being central to the work of Wikipedia but also crucially I really believe that Wikimedia belongs in education so I did mention earlier that this feels to me like a particularly dark period in our collective history seemingly intractable and frankly incomprehensible conflicts are taking place around the world you know with horrifying consequences for those caught up in those but despite greater and faster access to information than we've ever had before those conflicts and those complex situations politically that are going on around the world can seem compounded by a crisis of democracy in facts and it feels that the value of knowledge itself is under threat of course propaganda misinformation and frankly just bad journalism have been around forever but this idea of fake news seems particularly current so my colleague John has just made a short video about how contributing to Wikimedia can actually combat alternative facts excellent that worked so how do we make sure that young people recognize fake news and understand how to assess interrogate and interpret information and also more than that and more importantly how do we enable learners to create and curate open knowledge and not just be the passive consumers of information these are some of the key questions that are driving our work in the UK and the wider educational program for Wikimedia globally to an extent students have already actively contributing to open knowledge in North America alone they have contributed 25 million words to Wikipedia and in April 2016 6% of the science content created on Wikipedia was contributed by students participating in the Wikipedia in the classroom program in the United States and Canada I've lost my presentation sorry a slight intermission also saying about closing the gender gap I'm single-handedly opening it right here and right now thank you and I yes that was where I thank you so much Martin I'm really I'm really sorry for the technical problems so what I hope is starting to become clear in case you're still wondering why someone from Wikipedia has been given a keynote at the OER conference and education is really central to our strategy at Wikimedia UK and we want to develop Wikimedia as a tool for teaching and learning and support learners to effectively engage with and understand open knowledge so we're working in partnership with the formal education sector in a number of ways we're supporting a program called Wikipedia in the classroom and that's an established model of engaging undergraduates in editing Wikipedia within their subject specialisms leads to a range of learning outcomes but it also enriches the encyclopedia with new content we're deepening our relationship with the research community as well particularly at Oxford University through our Wikimedian and residents Martin Polter who's here and who's recently collaborated with the Voltaire Foundation and ArcSci 2020 amongst others and we're developing a community of practice bringing together educators who are working with Wikimedia and Wikimedians working in education and no those are not necessarily the same thing we're also starting to work with younger students and we're particularly pleased to be part of Sterling University's life in data project and that's mapping how data literacy is understood and fostered in the education sector in Scotland what that means for future policy and what the best ways are to encourage the development of a creative and inclusive Scottish data community so Wikimedia of course is an open knowledge movement and actually I've been having some of these conversations with other people in the movement over the weekend, last weekend in Berlin for the annual Wikimedia conference because to me the real value and benefit of open knowledge lies in people being able to understand it to engage it to navigate it and to contribute it so Wikimedia and the other Wikimedia projects can enable learners to critically evaluate and engage with knowledge and information develop digital information and data literacy skills it can be a useful tool in improving digital practice in an academic context through critical thinking and the study of bias, translation, plagiarism and many other aspects that are involved in researching, writing and referencing encyclopedic content in contributing to Wikimedia students make the leap from passive learning to an active expression of knowledge they're rephrasing and they're revising their own understanding of the subject as they work and they're making it at their own they're also sharing that with the wider world and I think a huge amount of satisfaction comes from that also working with other Wikimedia projects can be a really interesting learning experience for students Stefan Lutschinger who's Associate Lecturer in Digital Publishing at Middlesex University and who may be in the audience he describes Wikidata as a resource that enables undergraduates to understand the architecture and the anatomy of data Stefan's actually a fantastic champion for Wikimedia and he has been running a module at Middlesex University for three years which has been hugely successful and he's now trying to make Wikimedia editing a mandatory part of the curriculum for every Middlesex first year student because he recognises the huge amount of skills that it brings and it helps to develop in the UK we supported over 500 learners last year through Wikimedia in the classroom and they contributed over 5000 hours of their time to the encyclopedia and that included students at Edinburgh, Middlesex, Portsmouth Queen Mary University of London and Warwick and from this year we haven't done this before in a very structured way but from this year we'll be assessing the digital literacy skills development of those students Melissa Highton who I'm sure many of you know and who gave one of the keynotes at last year's conference she gave a keynote speech at Wikimedia UK's Education Summit at Middlesex in February and this is the quote that I really like from that which is both that the work has improved the quantity and the quality of open knowledge but also it leads into discussions about the about the privilege and geography of knowledge and for me that's really powerful just before I go on to talk about how we're building a diverse community in the UK I'm going to include some other quotes from students and educators around the world who participated in editing Wikimedia I'm hoping you can read this but this says I have never seen my students as motivated as when they were explaining the work they had done to upload pictures and videos to Wikimedia and that's an educator from Ecuador I actually find this quote really moving and this is a student in Brazil who says we contribute so that these people are not forgotten and this is from a student in Armenia who says that Wikicamps and Wikimedia have changed her whole life for the better I won't stop editing Wikimedia because I want to have my contribution in the development of Armenian science and education and one of the things that's maybe worth noting here is that whilst the English Wikipedia is very large there are over 5 million articles there are 290 language Wikipedias and many of them are much smaller and that means that they need more content contributed but it also means there's actually a lower bar to engagement because there are already 5 million articles so I think for students who speak other languages and have other first languages I think that can be a fantastic opportunity and this is a student from Alberta in Canada and draws on the idea that editing for Wikimedia means that you're sharing information with someone else so you're not just writing an essay that a tutor is going to mark you're actually putting it up there I wasn't planning to do this, I think I've got time just to share a small case study from Edinburgh where 38 or 39 reproductive biology students who happen to all be female which I find quite striking but they were trained in editing Wikipedia and one of the students wrote an article on a particular form of cancer called seris carcinoma which apparently is a cancer that occurs in the ovaries and it wasn't on the encyclopedia so actually she's done a huge service in putting that information online because we know that lots of people when they're diagnosed with things check Wikipedia first before going to other sites and that's already been seen by thousands of people so Melissa's quote really I felt would lead me into a conversation about diversity and inclusion and this is actually one of our strategic goals at Wikimedia UK which is to increase the quality and quantity of subjects that are underrepresented on Wikimedia I quite often talk about the gender gap and I will be discussing that today but not in a huge amount of detail but you may be aware that less than 17% of biographies on the English Wikipedia are about women and that around 15% of Wikipedia editors are women so there is a very significant gender gap in terms of both content and communities but there are other gaps as well that are other forms of bias so we want Wikimedia and all of the projects and Wikipedia to reflect our diverse society and be free from that bias and I feel that's particularly important in the UK as a country with a long and frankly checkered colonial and imperial history but also where 300 languages are spoken where we have a very diverse multicultural community so our extensive work in partnership with the cultural heritage sector has a really strong focus on this particular goal and we're working with the Welcome Library, Hypatia Trust, National Library of Wales, National Library of Scotland all sorts of different partners to try and open up content and hidden histories a particular example of that and Martin is in the room in the first phase of Martin's residency at Oxford University when he was at Bodleian Libraries he decided to focus particularly on opening up images that revealed those hidden histories and he handpicked 8,000 image files and they've now had more than 50 million page views which is significantly in excess of any sort of audience that they would have reached through the Bodleian Zone website as well as developing the content on Wikimedia we're also committed to developing an inclusive community and diversifying Wikimedia contributors now of course those things are related but they're not exactly the same and our approach is different so just to give you an example of how that works some of our outreach projects include training Kurdish educators who are based in London the idea being that they will be training young people and other educators and other Kurdish people to add to the encyclopedia about Kurdish language and culture and history and we're also doing a project at Queen Mary University of London with Middle Eastern women students we also have a particular focus on indigenous languages to the UK so we're doing a huge amount of work in the Welsh language and we also have a newly appointed Scottish Gallic Wikipedia working with the National Library of Scotland and with us to develop the Wikipedia I've talked a little bit about the gender gap already and this is quite a significant piece of work not just for Wikimedia UK but for the whole Wikimedia community as the most influential source of information in the world this is really, really important not just for current users but for the millions of people including women and girls who'll be coming online in the next few months and years and the first source of information that they'll have access to through the Wikipedia Zero programme is Wikipedia so we're working to close this gap and that can lead to synergistic activities with the higher education sector and with other partners I've already talked a little bit about the work at the University of Edinburgh where Ewan is our Wikimedian in residence and doing an amazing job and he delivers public events which have had over the past year an average attendance of 65% women which is great but also as I've talked about some of the classes that he's been working in and developing Wikipedia in the classroom in have been wholly or a majority female at the Education Summit where Melissa spoke she talked about the way in which Wikimedian in residence at university can actually tackle some of the structural gender inequality in universities and particularly in STEM subjects so gender and other forms of bias are a really common theme of our work essentially and I'm going to show off here a new word that I heard yesterday but essentially we're trying to combat the Androcentricism that pervades Wikipedia which is that sort of white male Western perspective as well as other major global online platforms and to diversify Wikimedia's content and contributors I did want to talk a little bit about the way in which Wikimedia I hope can play an active role in achieving universal education but while I do this I want to be mindful of the words of caution that Maha used yesterday and the dominant form of knowledge and language and culture and interpretation and what that means when you're introducing what is essentially a Western platform into developing countries she said and this particularly struck me OERs might not help learners in developing countries and I'm bearing all of that in mind I hope when talking about this but I do think that technology and that Wikimedia can contribute to sustainable and more accessible education and that can support the UN sustainable goals for education and learning and in particular which is why I have this photo I really hope that this can start to close the gap in terms of girls who typically have less access to education in the developing world and just so that you know that it's not me on my own or Wikimedia UK who's trying to achieve this I've just spent the weekend in Berlin where 350 people from across the global Wikimedia movement were talking about what our strategic direction will be and where we are going and what we want to build or achieve by 2030 so I was in a group that was talking about education and this is what we came up with which probably won't look anything like that by the time the strategy is finished but I felt that there was a real feeling at the conference that education is really key to Wikimedia's work so I wanted to share that with you I'm conscious that I don't have very much time left OK cool so I just wanted to move into talking quite briefly possibly about our advocacy work at Wikimedia UK our mission is to support and advocate for the development of open knowledge so that advocacy role can take a number of different forms we contribute to the creation and distribution of educational content through advocating for open knowledge amongst our partners and in particular our Wikimedians and residents and I've mentioned a couple of them they really act as change makers within those host institutions they advocate for open knowledge and they support and facilitate new practice we're actively involved in sector level initiatives to open up resources and to med with the principles of open at a policy level for example with UK funders and with scholarly publishers and we also advocate for changes to public policy and legislation that support free and open access to educational resources we try and promote public understanding of the role of open knowledge and it's also really really important for us to create ambassadors and champions for our work and some of those amazing ambassadors for our worker in this room today but there are some issues with advocating for open knowledge and this is why I think that actually being open and advocating for open is in some ways a political act there is a bit of a conflation of open and privacy issues within the general public and we need to be really clear that actually these two things are very different issues I also think that the mainstreaming of neoliberalism and the idea of market forces being king is actually in real conflict with what we're trying to do here and that the open movement is challenging the idea that everything should be commercial and it's a realisation of the idea that at least some things aren't owned by individuals but by the collective commons in some ways and certainly in some states and regimes and countries being open absolutely is a political act and even making the sort of speech that I'm making would be to jeopardise on zone personal safety and I feel hugely privileged that I'm not in that situation the proposed new framework for copyright within the single digital market I'm not going to go into in any detail but that is a really really bad thing for education and for the open movement more broadly so I'm working quite closely with my European colleagues to advocate at the EU level for changes to that document when I first joined Workimedia UK which was about 18 months ago I had talked to lots of people and I was trying to find out what they felt and why they were passionate and what they thought was interesting about our work and I remember a conversation that I had with our volunteer and he said to me Wikipedia is everything that we were told the internet could be and I still think that that is true and I think it has the potential to do that but I think we can't do that alone we have to do that working with other sectors and the education sector was such an important part of that so very briefly I wanted to talk about ways in which you can be involved either as individuals, as educators, as institutions the first thing and I have to say this is a bit of a plug you can become a member of Workimedia UK for a mere £5 a year as an individual or £100 for institutional membership and that actually gives you access to grants and certain other benefits as well we keep that fee very very low so that it's a pretty accessible platform we hope you can engage more proactively with Workimedia and I really really hope that you do that if you don't already you could start with hosting a training event for your staff and one of our volunteer trainers could come and deliver an editor-thon and teach your staff to edit or you could do that for your students or all the general public who come into your space you could also think about introducing Wikipedia in the classroom which is a structured programme and that would be supported by the Workimedia UK team and some of the outcomes that I've shared for example the reproductive biology class and the outcomes that Stefan talks about in his module could really benefit I think your institutions and you could also think about what content your institution holds and particularly content that is in relation to underrepresented subjects such as women and non-western languages and cultures and think of course about how your educational resources could add value to the Workimedia projects so there are lots and lots of ways that you can get involved I'm here for the rest of the day Daria who's the head of programmes and evaluation at Workimedia UK is here Richard Novell is here, one of our project coordinators and there's actually quite a lot of people who are associated with Workimedia we've got Workimedians in Residence Josie is the trustee of Workimedia UK actually you're going to find it quite hard to escape Workimedia at the conference so you should probably just come and talk to us and find out how you can get more involved I'm really, really pleased to have had the chance to talk to you and really thank you for your attention and would be super, super happy to answer any questions or indeed to invite people to share comments or stories that resonate with what I've just said so thank you Thank you Do you need a mic? Right at the back There's always a button Thanks, sorry to make, I have to walk the whole end of the room for my question I hope it's worth it I mean I start from saying I'm a great fan of Workimedia and I was at the UK meeting not so long ago where we met and where a lot of interesting people were there one of my problems perhaps my enemies tell me is I'm always trying to fix things even if they're not broken but there's an interesting issue of privilege which you referred to in the English language we kind of go around with the impression that Wikipedia is pretty comprehensive yes there are disputes about some of the facts and the rest of it but you know if you take a particular category of activity let's say universities by and large within a second of a university changing its name some one probably the PR person for the university will have fixed it on Wikipedia let's hope it's not the PR person at the university but I suspect that's one of that that brings me on to some of the darker aspects if I were I'm I knock around with a lot of librarians they will be telling and in the open education world we talk increasingly about open data and you didn't say so much for wiki data so there's a kind of cultural technical issue which I think is to do with harvesting at what point does Wikipedia say it's the humans are great but maybe we have to do something to provide maybe just let's call it pre-population and I think actually to be honest within certain communities that fixes a number of the gender and coverage issues I'm not suggesting that you know one harvest the wrong sites let's say but there are a lot of safety sites government information where it would benefit everybody I think if they were on and this particularly applies to I was going to say lesser use languages but even when you get to a language like Spanish you will find in Latin America the lists of universities are extremely rudimentary and out of date and every all everyone does sadly is to copy each other's Wikipedia entries and it's one of the depressing things so some how can we begin to get out of this circle are humans quite enough we might ask ourselves these days I mean if you're asking me as Lucy Crumpton read my answer will always be that humans are enough and that we are enough from a more Wikimedia perspective of course there is a huge role that automation can play I didn't talk about Wikimedia data very much primarily because it's not my particular certainly not my area of expertise but also because it is was adding an extra sort of layer and dimension to the speech which I wasn't quite sure was appropriate but there are people in this room who know who really understand Wikimedia data Martin for sure is Nav here this morning Nav I mean please go and talk to Nav about Wikimedia I'm not the person to talk to and one of the alongside education one of the conversations at the strategy gathering at the weekend in Berlin was just on that subject was on automation and the role that that plays so I I recognize some of what you're saying my actual answer to is yes humans are enough but automation can help Thank you very much for your nice presentation I'm I'm a little bit confused in regard to the position of faculty members themselves we see a huge gap between students but you didn't talk about students and teaching but you did not touch the subject of lectures and faculty members do you have nice examples of really a faculty including incorporating Wikimedia within their program and in a structured way because I think that will be very well meaningful for us to understand how we can use it and how we can incorporate it because there's a huge gap between students and what faculty think about using Wikimedia in general and I think that gap should be closed very soon because otherwise we won't well we won't use it as faculty members I mean I completely agree there are a few examples in Edinburgh the translation studies department and particularly a lecturer called Hepsibar Israel has been really involved and she's been running those courses with support from a Wikimedian and that's been really successful and one of the things that you in has noted in that in observing what's happened in that course is that enabling students to really sort of take ownership of what they were doing has made a huge difference and what they've been doing is translating let me get this right translating into different languages so they're not always using English it's sort of from one language to another language and that helps to populate some of the smaller language Wikimedias as well Stefan Lutschinger who I've mentioned has been doing amazing work over the past three years and is really embedding Wikimedia in his institution there are some other examples but I think that's one of the things we have to point you to some of those resources and case studies and get better at sharing that practice as well Melissa No, it's me Oh, sorry, Francis Hi Lucy, thanks very much for an excellent and informative talk Unfortunately I like Paul don't really have a question but I've got an answer to Paul actually to encourage Paul and anyone else in the room to attend the Wikimedia UK AGM where I attended the most excellent pre-workshop on WikiData last year so get involved, I think it's a good idea Thank you, that's on Saturday the 15th of July this year and it'll be in London thanks Francis I was going to just say something about faculty skills which is that at Edinburgh we do the training and about using Wikipedia and that's equally open to students and faculty many faculty have attended and had just as much of a training need as the students and a lot of what has been added as information has been added as a result of the residency at Edinburgh which is a significant chunk of coverage and has been added by faculty thinking about their expertise in particular areas as well as what they want their students to learn about being an intellectual a public intellectual and the role that the certainly the big research institutions have in terms of knowledge creation and public engagement with our research Thank you I can see one more question from Yoran, any more people? Okay, so I'll collect one, two, three and then probably we'll need to finish, right? It might be four, I think Or four, okay Sorry My name is Yoran, I'm from Germany and the German Wikipedia tends to be more and more academic and less accessible for example for children but probably children is only representing different groups and in Germany there was a project or there still is a project going on the Klexikon which is Wikipedia for children and I know in English there's the simple English version but I don't know if it's really very much alive and I wonder if this could be a question for the longer term if the accessibility tends to be a huge problem and maybe there will be a fragmentation between different versions or is it, I don't know, what's your opinion on it? I'm not quite sure I mean I totally agree with you that accessibility has to be factored in and I guess in terms of I can't talk about the German encyclopedia because I don't speak German but in terms of the English Wikipedia I guess it's striking that balance between being accessible and using an encyclopedic sort of neutral tone of voice but also presenting in a measured way the different sides and debates of an argument so I'm not quite sure what the solution is I'd really like, I'd really want school children to be able to learn from Wikipedia and not feel that it's an intimidating academic place I mean that I think is its role so if we're going down a route that isn't helpful to the readers and users then of course we absolutely have to think about that and maybe that's something I can feed into the strategy process as well Catherine I think is next Thank you so much completely inspired by your presentation and thank you, I'm going to share it widely with some people back at my institution just in response to the person who was looking for models about doing this with students my advice is just do it I read one article in 2010 about building legacy with Wikipedia that was in the U.S. from Washington D.C. with primary school students and started doing it then and I just looked last week and the first assignment I think that I tried with students was in 2010 and that article has had hundreds of edits and just do it Thank you, that's great Hi, Jeffrey Kiefer from New York I'm just asking a question that somebody asked online because I'm following the tweet that the tag and the question was what's the difference between Wikimedia and Wikipedia especially because you use both of them so interchangeably I'm sorry so Wikipedia is a website and it's a product Wikimedia, the Wikimedia Foundation is based in San Francisco and it owns and controls Wikipedia but the other 11, 12 Wikimedia projects so Wikisource, Wikiversity, Wikivoyage the Wikimedia movement encompasses all of that so it encompasses Wikipedia, it encompasses editors, it encompasses volunteers, it encompasses data people who are working on Wikidata Wikipedia is the website and the reason that I use that so interchangeably is because Wikipedia is so dominant in the conversation about Wikimedia and also because people don't really recognize the brand of Wikimedia but perhaps I should have made that clearer at the start of the presentation so, yeah, apologies Ma, how did you... We're unfortunately out of time I'm sorry Lucy is around so you can have individual conversations or you can set up a little chat during the break Thank you very much, Lucy it was inspiring to hear how Wikimedia hackles open education Thank you