 Okay, so the main point of this session is just for the people who are interested in presenting bids to tell us a bit about them about their suggestions, but just for anyone who's not familiar with the process very quickly, there is a wiki page on the Dubconf wiki bid process and if you want to see the details of how things work you can look there, but roughly speaking just the main thing the main message is at the moment all people are doing is really expressing interest. We're not expecting bids to have details and budgets and timings of when talks will be and whatever at the moment. It's just really an interest and yeah it's also quite possible people are allowed to make some bid suggestions still in the coming months and then normally we have a schedule that approximately the end of the year we try to pin down who's really serious about bids and those people fill in a checklist which is linked from this wiki page which gives more specific details and then sometime at the start of the year we have a for more formal process to officially decide where the bid will be. Typically by that stage most years by that stage there's two or three locations that are still interested but obviously it's good to have as many possibilities as possible. So yeah how is it four separate bids we have or okay three bids so does someone have a three-sided coin? Okay we've so that's just to say we there's another possible bid from Portland which isn't represented here but hopefully they can post something to maybe the mailing list and put it on the wiki later on. So someone make a random number? Who's first? Well we can't cross the room. Put your hands up again. Okay. Can you read me? Okay. So maybe you were there last year and Olga thanks to him. I had a rough idea about making a deep confin Martinique. So where is Martinique? You know the green blue stuff that's the ocean with a Cassius on one side, New York on the other, Banyuleka over there, Managa and a tiny island here somewhere I don't know here on the sea. So let's have a look on this Caribbean sea. The American guys are over there. We are here and 2,000 kilometers away is the Martinique. Yes it's an island so there are lots of bids around there, lots and in the middle for those who missed it on the day trip there's a volcano. Those of us who want to come by boat will arrive here and the others by plane The funny thing about Martinique is it's part of France so it's Europe. So those of us come from United Kingdom just show your ID card and go and pass. They accept passports to never mind. And Switzerland can show only an ID to people from Switzerland. And I must not miss you anyway because it is not part of the Changan area. So sorry we misled you last year. Many of us from many countries including Nicaragua just need a passport to come here and a few others will need a visa. Just being honest knowing the customs, the customs in Martinique. Sometimes they forgot to ask you your ID card. Maybe it will pass. Maybe two years ago there wasn't any development in Martinique. Now there is and it's the fourth country. So now we have a local team. They are smart. They are tireless. And they are friendly. So now we are not alone but there's still room for you. Who want to join? Okay? Okay thank you. Don't hesitate to join us. So we work a bit this year and we also find some accommodation. You will need to bring your amacus and we'll provide the trees. We also have a look for the venue. It can be quite nice. We have to make some room about it. So you have to taste the rub. Bring it to the cheese and wine. Sorry. And it might also be a spoon size. We can work with them. I have something else to say. I don't know why. Of course. There will be no shows. Okay. So I have to see you soon. No, I didn't say the word about the network next time. Okay so we will present the three bits and afterwards we will have the questions for everybody together. So now Luis will talk to us about the Venezuelan bit. Well hello everybody. I come to present the coastal city of Puerto La Cruz from Venezuela. It has as you see beaches. It's also located close to Martinique. So if you're from Europe you can go to Martinique and then take a boat to Puerto La Cruz. Puerto La Cruz is located there in Venezuela. As I said, it's a coastal city known for its attractions to tourists. You would probably have heard of Venezuela because of the Angel Falls. It's the highest waterfall of the world. It's oil industry. You might have seen some of our women's in Miss Universe. You might also have heard of Simone Bolivar Orchestra. That's Duda Melz, the guy with the big hair. Well, you know. Can I'm a distribution and the rum at the Chisholm White Party. As I said, it's a coastal city with amazingly beautiful beaches and islands that are near to the beaches. There's a national park that's called Mochima Park. It's a tourist city. There's hotels everywhere in the city. It's also a student city. There are four major universities in the city that we could use. Getting there is not that difficult. You can fly to Caracas and then take a bus or a local flight. You can also take a ride by boat, but I don't know if it is so standard. It's four hours in bus from Caracas to Porto la Cruz and 45 minutes by plane. We have located two options for the venue. There are two big hotels. One is called Mare Márez and the other is Porto la Cruz. There's also an alternative location for the depth camp and the Debian Day on one of the universities. Or we can do it all in the hotel. The thing is we can be all in the same hotel that has large auditoriums like this that we can use for the talk rooms or the hack lab and the hack lab. This is Hotel Mare Márez. The one there. Let me see if I can... No. Here. This is Hotel Mare Márez. We have a golf camp here. Tennis camps, tennis fields, a juxtaposition. I don't know how to pronounce it. Juxtaposition Club. That's an artificial island that you can explore. The local team. We currently have 34 people that has confirmed its commitment to the proposal. This photo you see here is Canaima community at an event that we call Callapa. That's like a depth camp but without the day trip. With local community. There we have those people. They are very nice. Why Venezuela? Apart from that, I think I messed up the presentation. Yes, I messed up the presentation. That was first. Why Venezuela? We have a very active free-sovere community. We have Debian Ubuntu, Canaima, Fedora, people working in various free-sovere events. We have very successful free-sovere projects. As you see, Canaima, Canaima Educativo. That's the laptops that we ship on the schools. Also, the government is migrating everything from private operating systems to Debian-based operating systems like Canaima. It's using Debian on its servers. We definitely know how to do a depth camp because, as I told you, Callapa. We've done six Callapa so far. It's essentially the same thing. We have organized people. More than 20 logs throughout the country. Let me see here the other. We have no immigration problems apart from some countries that need visa. All kinds of foods are available for vegan or vegetarian. There are no limitations on imports, technical stuff, money. Although we have a difficult with money that I will tell you later. We have sponsors that usually help Callapas and free-sovere events in Venezuela and we'll be totally happy to sponsor a depth camp. We have some difficulties. We have currency exchange control. It's not that it's impossible to get money into Venezuela. It's just too bureaucratic. It has to be done with some time of advance. The internet connection in the place, it's difficult to get, but it's not a problem if we do it with many anticipations. And that's it. Thanks. Do you have any questions or questions? I'll later. Okay, so, in 2010, Anarkhat made a talk like this for the first time, and I think it was a great opportunity for me to talk about it, and I think it was a great opportunity for me to talk about it, and I think it was a great opportunity for me to talk about it. In 2010, Anarkhat made a talk like this in New York, and it was for making a bid for 2012, and as you can see, we didn't push the bid, but we learned quite a bit on the process, and I've been convinced a little bit to try to reflow the bid. The nice thing is that we went further down the rabbit hole for that, so we are going to try to do a little good-cut-but-cut here with Edgar, and there are now for the stuff we have for the previous bid. Okay, so, Montreal is in Quebec, in Canada. It's the largest French-speaking city outside of France. It builds itself like the Silicon Valley of the French world, according to themselves. I'm sure other people will take issue on that, and right now, we have actually quite a bit of deviant developers that live there. It's not France, but it would like to be. There are plenty of very, very good reasons to make it there. Yes, there are plenty of good reasons to do it there. I want to mention about the issues that I feel we need to address, and I would like to ask for help from other people if you don't know or want to help us addressing. One of the things I find is Montreal is a little bit of an Ubuntu town. Yes, they get like a full bar full of people for each Ubuntu release party, and so we are lacking a little bit of a volunteer base. There are deviant developers in the city, and the other thing is that we are right now, I'll try to go back to Montreal and grab Anarchat back into this, but so far the ones we are pushing are Thiago and I. Yes, and you need to have a very strong French component to get money from the Quebec government. And as the other point here, this is not going to be cheap. I mean, Montreal is a cheap city for the area, but it still will be comparable with doing a step-conf in a European city. And last but not least, getting visas to Canada is a problem, particularly because due to US pressure in a sense, they have very, very strict visa requirements compared to what it really needs to be. But the winter is terrible in Canada. Yes, so in the summer the whole city is in a party. Everybody is outside drinking beer, and you will really, really enjoy it, and Edgar can say more about it. Yeah, no, it's true. The city really, really lights up in the summer. We have fog loads and fog loads of sunlight from about 5 a.m. to 9.30 at night or so, 5.30, 9.30. It has very, very nice public transportation, and it's one of the few cities in America that has quite an interesting blend of modern American city in the sort of 3 to 5 million people range, which I find is ideal for cities. It means you have everything, absolutely everything, but it's not too crowded. And it has a very nice old port with some colonial architecture. It's known as one of the best party cities in the northern half of the continent. So almost any day at night you can find very, very decent part in the plateau. It has very nice internet connections. It should not be hard to get a decent internet connection. I myself have a 30 megabit downstream connection for an apartment that is not too expensive. What else? There is a very long history of volunteering and anarchism in Montreal. In that sense we should be able to drive these people into DEF CONF. Recently I think I have heard more also people going against technology, which will make a little more difficult, but everything is possible. But we need more French connection to these people. And being said that, if the Martinique bit goes through, I'll vote for it. But okay, so you can go back to these notes that are on the wiki if you have more questions. And I also had a blog post from a meeting we had with Anarchad. This bit fell through because Anarchad went to Sweden and I went to Argentina. So one of the good things is that I don't think neither Tiago and I are planning to leave Quebec in the next six months. So from that perspective we'll have much more people working on the bit. But I think there are very serious chances we can get money from the Quebec government to make it happen, particularly given the importance of French language within Debian. And we can even have a simultaneous translation of English to French for the DEF CONF, which will be a nice thing to have for everybody, but the poor people doing the translation. And I think Montreal has a very vibrant developer community. I have met a lot of software developers out of the blue, just out partying or couchsurfing meetings or whatnot. It's very much a university town. It has, like it's listed there, at the very least, McGill, Concordia, Oucam, Université de Montréal. I'm thinking if we pit them against each other, they all have extensive dormitory systems, which should be half empty in the summer. If we manage to find some money from the Quebec government, maybe, for instance, suggesting that we'll push strongly some French content during the event. And if we manage to get to the university to give us some dorms for hosting people, that would go a long way towards offsetting costs. And I have myself been to a few local free software events from various communities. And we are participants of the full app, which has quite a strong little local node of hacker activists. There's something called anarchist tech support. These guys should be interested, for instance. They do activism for training people to use cryptology with email and this and that. And the Debian community already has a culture of doing that. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, or three for presenting the bits. One thing I want to remark is that we will not vote on the Debcon 14 location, but rather decide based on our checklist, and voting might be maybe the last resort, but usually we decide which venue is suited best and not vote just by majority. Well, I wanted to say one good thing about the three bits is that they have all presented a bit in the past with different degrees of preparation, different degrees of success, even different degrees of seriousness. But I'm very happy that they're all re-encoring, so it seems they don't learn. But yeah, I mean, well, you saw presentations. I don't know if there are some questions from the audience to either to all of them or to specific teams. So in the case of Venezuela, I don't remember with who. Okay, sorry. In the case of Venezuela, I don't remember. I was sharing some feelings about venues built in Latin America. And we have the feeling that South America people always tries to show the hotels luxury or that kind of things. And in Edinburgh, we have been living in a hostel and we need to walk a few hundred meters to go to the university in order to go to Debcon. I mean, have you considered not to use a hotel as a venue and a hosting place and maybe the university and some place close to the university? Never mind if it's not... I mean, it's cheap. I mean, it's good if it's cheap in both terms. I mean, expensive and low quality in some cases. Yeah, of course. Actually, we manage three options. It's...two of them are hotels. But we thought that if we had the... I don't know, the staying place and the venue, right? In the same place, it would be much easier. But the third option... Much more expensive. Might be. But the third option is using one of those universities. It is well equipped for the venue and it's totally doable. So the people you show for your team, how many of them are in that particular city? Yeah, nine. Nine of them are in the city. They have a log in there and they actively participate in Canaima community. We asked in the Canaima lists for the organization and all those people said, yes, I want to be in the organization. Question to the three sides. Do you have any ideas about dates? This is for the three teams? For the three teams. Any ideas about when the dates? We usually have free software events in Venezuela around July or August, so that would be a nice date. But we haven't thought of it like this day and this day. For Martinique, it will be anytime between July and August. In our case, we will try to do it far from the Jazz Festival who just finished because the city becomes very, very expensive to travel to. But maybe we can time it so it's like a week ago and you can attend the Jazz Festival if you want. Yeah, I just wanted to support the point that was raised over there that we should try to not have increasing standards of debt accommodation. We had very good standards the last two years. We will have crappier standards next year, so probably that's the right way to go. The main reason for this, if we don't spend too much money on accommodation, we will have more money for other things, especially travel sponsorship, and I think it's more important to get as many people as possible here than to have good accommodation for some. I will add a bit to Luciano and Gaudens' points. In Montreal, you are looking at student dormitories as the first option, so that's addressed. But for Martinique and for Venezuela, besides what you have thought of, well, palm trees with hammocks are quite cheap. But speaking frankly, for both, I think you're looking at tourism hotels. Are there smaller hotels or hostels or something like that available in the area? Well, yeah, they are, but we thought of these hotels because they are from a line of hotels that's called Venetur Hotels. As many of our free software members actually have a strong relationship with the government, we might or we probably have a very large discount on that venue. That's why we thought of those first. And for Martinique, there are lots of hotel real ones that are quite expensive because it's a touristic area, but they are not full at this time of the year, July-August because the actual three-season is February. July-August, as you can see, is the rainy season. Okay, five minutes between five minutes and one hour a day of rain, that's it, that's the rainy season. But more seriously, we are also looking, we hope that the university can host us with students' rooms and that will be a really nice place because the university got one-third of the island network. So the university could be a real good spot. One general or two general comments. I think it's better to have it in the conference in the university than inside a hotel. Not for sleeping but the real conference because then there's more exchange with local people as we are just isolated in the hotel. And the other thing which I especially saw in the Montreal bit, you're looking for governmental support and while governmental support is good, I think if possible it's way better to plan the conference without governmental support because the way governments work and the way we work is not so easy to get together. There are exceptions, of course. I was going to make a point about accommodation but I don't need to make too many more points about accommodation because enough has been made, I'll just be very quick. We definitely should not splurge on luxury hotels if we can avoid it but at the same time we don't want to have, you know, so cramped accommodation on the other end that maybe people don't have enough room to sleep comfortably or couples can't get sufficient private rooms or similar concerns. Somewhere in the middle is good but being very price conscious. I was just wondering if there's been any thought by any of the teams for childcare. We have increasing numbers of Debian developers with children and I'm wondering if there's any thought about childcare. I don't have any children but it would be nice to be able to support Debian developers who want to come with family. I guess what is... I take the cue here from side-trans festivals. The larger ones usually try to create some sort of infrastructure for kids and, you know, if we have a decent venue, we can set up a room for kids and have people who have kids or who are interested in sort of interacting with kids, volunteer to take care of them, lead them in some activities. I myself, I have this project for creating educational content for kids and I think it would be kick-ass, kick-ass, let me stress that, to have volunteers who are good with computers take it as an opportunity to teach the kids skills for computer content creation, text, images, code, whatever. I think that would be very, very nice. Like, have it be like a summer camp, get together with a bunch of kids, experiment in a very self-directed, you play with the equipment, we just sort of kind of help out things. Oh, no, no, no, I would never try to pay for daycare. I think if as a community we have enough kids and this is an interesting proposal, I think it should be self-sustaining. I might copy your idea. No, we also have an interesting educational free software project going on and we might do something with the kids also. Just a quick question for all of the beds. In terms of travel costs, especially if we're going to be looking at travel sponsorship as well, can you give us a rough idea of expected, say, flight costs from Europe, from North America, South America, Japan, that kind of thing. If you have them, I'm just curious. Flight costs. Oh, well, I can't give you exact amounts. How much is it costing to go to Europe? To Europe, to me. I really, I don't know. We will put it on the wiki, but we haven't researched that yet. But it's not that much. It's not to the high. Okay, for Martinique, going from Paris is around 700, 800 euros. The flights are four flights a day with three different companies. So that's not that bad. From America, there is one flight today. Go through Puerto Rico. Montreal has very cheap flights from Paris to Montreal. In low season, you can get even for $500, $600. But if you are coming from the Americas, in general, you have to make a stop in Miami. And, well, then you need a U.S. visa. And just to get here, it cost me like $700. So, thanks. Yeah, for North America, Mexico, Europe, if done during the low season or during high season with enough forethought, I'm starting looking for tickets about three to one month before at least, you can probably get something in the $500, $600 price range. For Asia and South America, obviously it's more expensive and if it's going to be cheap at all, it usually goes through the U.S. Now, it's interesting about the U.S. if you do have a U.S. visa, one thing to consider is to arrive a couple of days earlier at New York. New York is one of the cheapest hubs in North America and it's about a seven hour bus ride from Montreal. I have a question. I don't know how hard it is to get a visa to enter Canada if you are from a Latin American country. And I don't know if you will handle kind of invitation letters or somehow. Most Latin American countries that I know of don't need a tourist visa. In fact, shamefully for me, Mexico needs a tourist visa because there were too many people asking for refugee status. But generally speaking, I don't think they ask for tourist visas that much. My experience is quite the opposite. Actually, I know very few Latin American countries that don't need a visa. Argentinians also need a visa and it costs $130 just to apply. So I put it on the list, the first line was visas. I acknowledge that that's something to consider about a Montreal bid. We will need to assemble a team to write the letters and I am following the example of the New York bid where they managed to get a lawyer on staff. I would hope we can get the same thing for Montreal but that's something we need to work on, yes. I'm correct that I guess we just need to check. Okay, so we were told the time stop. Keep tuned, we will continue discussing, they will keep working and we expect to make a decision between January and March. April? I think earlier, if I remember correctly, the things. Would be better to have it earlier, but who knows? Early next year or something like that? Probably in advance. Thank you very much.