 Live from Barcelona, Spain. It's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, Veeam, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. Hey, welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE's exclusive live coverage here in Barcelona, Spain for Cisco Live 2018 Europe. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media and co-host of theCUBE with my partner co-host this week, Stu Miniman, co-host of theCUBE. Hundreds of events, also an analyst at wikibon.com. Our next guest is Rohan Trollab, who's the SVP and general manager of the applications division, groups, plural of applications. Welcome to theCUBE. Good to see you again. Good to see you too. So you did the keynote up on stage here in Europe and obviously Europe is, this is the 2018 kickoff. So it's officially Cisco Live Europe, but it's 2018. Welcome to 2018, it's here. Europe is a big exploding area. You got GDPR on the horizon. You got sophisticated customers, a lot of networking, a lot of cloud discussions, a lot of futuristic views in your speech. Yep. How is Cisco changing now? And it's just really nailed it in the keynote. What is the future vision that you see for Cisco? You're really seeing a new Cisco emerge at this point, I think. A software defined, faster paced company, frankly. You know, the sort of the idea that what got us here won't get us there. We have to reinvent the company. We have to reinvent what we've done for so long. And that's what the team is doing. And that was what was so impressive, frankly, about the network intuitive launch last year was just how dramatically that team had re-imagined the concept of, in this case, campus networking, right? But we know that it doesn't stop there. As David said yesterday, it's going to go into the data center. It's going to apply across the rest of, you know, even the cloud. One of the things that Cisco has always had and observed and just as an industry participant over the past 30 years is, you know, when Open Standards, TCPIP came out, that created an industry. So much happened from there. But Cisco's been an enabling company. You guys enable people to be successful. That's always been kind of the network stack, the disruption from going after the old SNA and DECnet protocols, network protocols. Going back behind me. Going back. Going back. No, but going forward. And then your speech was not about looking back. Right. It was about looking forward. So now, how is Cisco going to be enabling that future generation of customers, stakeholders, developers, and where's that value going to be unlocked? Where's it going to come from? I think that if we were to have a history book and be living in the world 2050 right now, and that we had a book called The History of the Internet, The Last 50 Years, what would that book say? And how would it talk about 2018 and the world we live in today? And I bet you that it would sort of almost be quaint or sort of Jurassic era internet to the users of 2050 or the inhabitants of the citizens of 2050 that we would look back on this era that we're in today and just say, wow, I can't believe, could you believe that, I can imagine my kids are like, you guys had all this security problems? Oh my God, that's crazy. How could you have lived that way? You carried a phone around? Yeah, this is crazy that this was like, in other words, we kind of haven't even really started with the internet yet. We just tried a few things and it seems pretty cool and we know there's a few problems and one of them's like, gosh, it can't be so manual. We know we're going to have to fix that. Gosh, it can't be so insecure. We know we're going to have to fix that. Oh my gosh, this cloud thing's pretty cool but turns out there's a little more complexity. We solved that as well. So it's really going through those things and at least the way my brain works is kind of that I put myself in the future and look backwards and it helps me to sort of think that, gosh, we just got to really think about this in a bigger way and start moving faster. Rowan, I love that. If I go back in the history book and it was like, okay, you know, that era, you know, networking dominated by Cisco, tracked by ports and revenue in the old, you know, Cisco in the seven dwarfs. Well the future era, software, it's applications. How does Cisco, what defines who Cisco is in the market? How do we track who the winners and losers are? Yeah, well I think what you said earlier is right. Cisco is an enabling company and Cisco is a special kind of company, frankly. I think a different kind of company than what you see out there in the world. We're a company that has created orders of magnitude more value than we've captured and, you know, we've captured a lot and, you know, but when you think about some companies don't do that, some companies create, almost capture, you know, the same amount of value that they create or they keep almost all of it for themselves and there's some notable current examples but I won't name names where they're really capturing almost all the value that they're creating. Cisco is a different kind of company. We're creating a platform for society, frankly, to be able to exist on this planet in a meaningful way in the future and it reminds me of a sort of the way that Cisco is, it reminds me of a great line that's been going around recently which is a society grows great when men plant trees whose shade they know they will never sit in and that's how I think about the next generation infrastructure. Like this is going to take a long time to get out there and we are creating that future for our next generation but it doesn't mean that we have to wait. We need to get started now. There's an urgency. One of the observations that we made yesterday and Stu and I were talking about when we were walking in this morning is, you know, we usually talk about competition but not this year. It's almost as if it's this point in history. It's not about competition being names of other companies. The competition is being on the right side of history. Right. And so you bring up this point, right? This is really clear. But the question is architecturally, there's some decisions that companies and companies are trying to face this. Your customers are trying to figure out, I want to be on the right side of history because that future is coming. What in your mind's eye is that architecture? Obviously software, billion connected devices, I get that but specifically what is the history lying going to look like? What line? Where should people be on? What side of history do you see unfolding that customers can go to for safe harbor to put the 20 year plan together for their business? You know, I think right now we're at a moment where customers do have to make choices but the choice is pretty clear to everyone. It isn't like there's a lot of questions. We know that the network needs to be reinvented. We've built the products and they're here now. So it's really about do you start now? And in my view, it's sort of a matter of life or death. For many of these companies, waiting is not an option. So I think that the dividing line on history will be did you get started? Did you transform your business at that time? If you didn't, it's unlikely that your company will be around for very long. And so that will sort of define the future in my mind is who got started early? Who said, okay, now is the time we got to get onto this stuff. And intent-based networking in context, great message. Love that, that's certainly an architecture. That's data-driven. But not a lot of data-driven constructs in the keynotes and the message probably in the sessions there are. But what's the role of data? So we had your Chief Privacy Officer Michelle Denady on earlier, she was awesome. Data is now the asset that will probably value businesses. So you have, on the app side, we had the collab team over, it's a platform, not just a tool, set of tools that's throwing off data. This data is the instrumenting valuation for companies. How are you looking at this? And how does Cisco evolve to skate through where the puck will be? Because that's still early, but developing really fast on the data front. I think that academics today and a lot of Cisco sort of thought leaders would agree with this, are looking at a next-generation networking principle called information-centric networks, or data-oriented networking architectures. And it's the idea that current networking architectures are based on the intent principle, which are systems-based. System A connects to system B and they can send bits. Well, the next-generation network is not going to be system-based. It's going to be information-based, which means, I don't ask for the Microsoft.com URL and then get the IP address and connect to a system. I find out, I want to see, show me the product list for Microsoft. And the network serves me that up. And Microsoft publishes it, says I have that information. So when someone asks for it, I say I have it and I publish it. So the network abstracts to a higher level that is at the data layer, not at the connectivity layer. And that is what I think is going to happen over time, is you're going to see this continuing abstraction up the stack of all of this infrastructure where it gets easier and easier and easier for developers to interact with the infrastructure. So here's a philosophical question for you. So network theory, we all know how packets move around. Folks may or may not care if they don't hear that business. We care. I mean, someone in the business might not care how OSPF routing protocol works, but I mean, it's a network theory. Social networking and IoT are connected devices. They're nodes on a network. How do you take that DNA of being competent in network, DNA to applications that are inherently more graph databases, more network oriented where attention, reputation, intent, context. It's always been like a search paradigm, not a networking moving packet paradigm. So I guess my question is, how do you connect those two worlds? How does Cisco do that? Because you do dominate the network, network theory, you know, graphs. Yeah, I think that you said it's a philosophical question so I can give you a philosophical answer. You know, we live in a world today where we don't actually really access the internet. We access it through companies that have put a business model on top of it. You go to Google or any other search engine, that's the case. So they've essentially layered this data oriented layer on top of the network already. But you're paying for it. And you're paying a price because if you search, and you search, and I search, we're going to get three different answers. And this whole idea of filter bubbles and what's going on with social networks that is a true phenomenon. And the internet was never really meant to be that way. So I think there's an opportunity for us to reimagine that. And some of the basic sort of principles of the network can be reconsidered. Now, obviously we've got the short term things we need to do over the next few years, like have companies deploy our new gear and buy our stuff and everything else. But we are thinking about these next generations, I'd say, pretty keenly. And I think that the infrastructure of the future, the way that I think about it, does provide a much higher level of abstraction to the network than what we have today. And making it programmable, you mean? But making it resilient. Yeah, as a developer, I shouldn't have to worry about standing up a server. I should be able to write some code and publish some data and subscribe to data, and that's it. Rowan, I loved actually the open of your keynote. You talked about it, it's a new era and a new infrastructure. We've seen Cisco that changing dynamic, application, some of the acquisitions you've made that push much deeper into software. What are some of the biggest challenges you face there? Cause, you know, I think we agree. If Cisco is alive and thriving in 2015, we don't think of it as an infrastructure networking company. So what's the biggest challenge for the company to move up the stack? I think the biggest challenge is how quickly we move. I think that we have to constantly be challenging ourselves to move faster. We know, you know, I think we have a pretty good sense for where the future's going and what we'd like to create. The question is, how quickly can we and our customers move? And, you know, we have to make it easy for our customers. So advanced services plays a big part in that, you know, that's why we have such a big investment there and why we're so over rotating onto staffing that for the network intuitive. The collaboration business is going through the same trends, information, IoT in the same way. So really, we're racing to keep up with our customers as much as they're racing to keep up with us. And that's the biggest opportunity and challenge, I think, for the company right now is can we move fast enough? And, you know, if we do, a $40 stock price will look like, you know, again, quaint. So developers are going to be a key role, obviously developer focus, developer.sysco.com. You guys had that around for a long, long time. You guys, when vertically integrated Cisco works great, Cisco and Cisco, as you go out and have more APIs and things like Kubernetes with cloud native open up more non-Sysco. One trend we're seeing here at Cisco Live is a lot of developers that aren't necessarily hardcore network guys are coming into the Cisco fold. That's going to be more of the trend going forward. How do you view and what the Cisco need to do to capture that mind share and convert them into valuable participants in the community building on top of Cisco because integration with non-Sysco related things, whether it's open source and or other systems embedding into Salesforce and whatnot. That has to be the new normal for you guys. What's your view on that and how do you drive that forward? I think, you know, companies of the future, you know, next generation companies, there's not going to be a distinction between tech companies and non-tech companies. Every company will be a tech company and you won't have sort of the difference between the application and your business. The application is your business. So the app is your business and you're a tech company and that's that. And all companies will be that way, essentially, powered by software. In that kind of a world it's developers that are key to delivering on your company's mission. And so I think developers will continue to accelerate. We see the DevNet Zone grows here every year. It's phenomenal. It's bigger than ever this year. And the examples and the programmability that we've been adding to the network, to the collaboration portfolio, every time I come here, it blows my mind. And so I think that's certainly a vision of the future when you come and take a look at what's going on here. You can see that the developer is the key for those businesses of the future and we're going to service them. I mean, that is our mission, is to get very, very focused on servicing developers with the platforms that we're building. If you have to extract out and describe to college buddy or customer or friend, they ask you, Rowan, what's the big wave that you're riding for the next 20 years? These waves are coming. We're seeing a lot of examples of crypto and blockchain on one end, really active. You certainly got cloud as a wave, data, AI as a wave. Is it all big, one big wave? I mean, waves of innovation come once a generation this size. We've said on the key, we think it's the best, biggest wave we've seen in a long, long time. I mean, right now, combination of all those things. Your thoughts of the way, how would you describe that to someone? I think the biggest and most meaningful thing to us is the connectivity of everything. I think that's the probably the big one. Data comes along with that. All the other parts of it come along with it. But if you think about the history of where we've been for the last 30 years, the internet was largely here and here. That's where it is. And it's not in your lights and it's not in your cameras and it's not in the desk and it's not in your chair, but it will be. That to me is the biggest transformation. It's going to take a long time. I think we've been talking about this transformation for a long time, but as we get to that level of connectivity, as we get to that level of pervasiveness of the network, that's the biggest transformation to me, is that the network goes from here to everywhere. And the common threads to your point is data, cloud, no, no, data network. Yeah, cloud, security, software. Yeah, I mean, look, it's the five pillars. Things that'll never change. There'll always be data. There'll always be the network. Yeah, and there will always be compute of some sort or another. We just think that if you look at our portfolio, we are really well positioned to create that next generation infrastructure. We've got the products now across the boards. And we're thinking about, when you think about data is one of the most interesting things I think about. One of the most important transitions for the company is around data. It's about pivoting our focus from moving packets to addressing data. And what we want to be ultimately for an enterprise is a central nervous system and the real-time platform for data. You know, we're not going to be the database. We're not going to be the analytics company. We're going to be that real-time source of information. You could think about it as a nervous system for a business. You're taking your network DNA and expanding it. Not trying to land grab new trends. No, I think we're a good strategy. There's plenty of work for us to do. Rob, a final question. What's the vibe here in Barcelona? Obviously, great keynote. Stu and I both really enjoyed it. Love the vision and the meaty part of the intent that came after was great. What's going on? Your conversations in the hallway, customers, dinners, what's the vibe like here in Europe, Francisco this year? Well, it's a thrilling vibe, especially down here on the show floor and right here at the epicenter of that, which is the DevNet workshops and all the things that are going on, they're packed. So I think if you're going to come down, get down here soon, because they're just absolutely filled up. And so that's one thing. I think a tremendous amount of optimism for the company is what I'm picking up as I talk to customers. People that have been coming up to me have been just very excited about Cisco's future and very excited about our vision and very excited about what we're doing and what we are doing together. I mean, it's, you know, I think the idea that Cisco is a different kind of company. We're the kind of company that is an enabler for our customers to do great things. And that to me is a very noble pursuit. All right, Ro and Troll of SVP and General Manager, Applicates at Cisco, Headlining Cisco Live 2018 here in Europe. This is theCUBE's live coverage from the DevNet zone here in Barcelona. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, more live CUBE coverage after this short break. Thanks for watching.