 together. I think it's difficult for me to start with anything about rule of law and access to justice without bringing into the room the voices of men and women and many of those who are really impacted by the context in North Syria. So I just wanted to use this opportunity to start with a few quotes that really demonstrate some of the challenges that we see in statistics that we are going to be hearing about over the course of the next two presentations. And I pulled out a few of these quotes from Karen's protection needs assessment that we conducted prior to the earthquake to the earthquakes that impacted all of us. And I just wanted to bring that to the room because it really speaks to the suffering that we're seeing from the community and within the community. And I'll use a few quotes. People who live in non-formal camps and areas far away from the cities have far more challenges in terms of groups. Women and children have the most challenges. Women have no access because customs and traditions, distance, social norms prevent them from accessing these services. This is actually a quote. You would think that this is something said by a woman but actually this was from an adult male healthcare provider. We also have a statement from a key informant who's a female inside in Der Hassan who said there's a lack of courts, judicial courts, not the religious courts, which result in the lack of registration of newborns, the lack of registration of marriage, inheritance, ownership. People are relying on the verbal contract of an imam, not by verifying it through a court. Another says, and I'll just fast forward because there are so many, the community culture towards widows limits their movements and their education. The same thing happens with divorced women whose situation is much worse than the widows because they are considered to have chosen divorce. They are exposed to a lot of criticism from the community for being responsible, but they have limited legal recourse. And the statements go on and on and on. And so I think today and over the course of the next while, we will be talking about the sentiments, these concerns that are expressed by people who are experiencing the suffering in the Northwest and North Syria in general. I don't have too long, but I'll try to frame a little bit of what I want to say. The first is that it is clear that in the North of Syria, there is an absence of a fully or even partially functioning rule of law which impacts everybody. Not having the state institutions, the policies, the laws, even the security apparatus required to enforce the supremacy of law is a critical consideration, has been before the earthquakes will continue to be for a long time to come. The second is that whether we like it or not is a male dominated social structure. Sociable norms are quite male dominated, so are policies, so are enforcement mechanisms wherever they may be. Whether we like it or not, that means that women bear the brunt of this disproportionate impacts of this not so fully functioning rule of law. We also know that there are formal as well as informal governance systems inside the North and that it's not just the complexity, but also the fact that there's a disadvantaged population in terms of an understanding and a trust and a space for them to seek more so the formal than the informal systems. Finally, I want to say that one of the clear things in my four plus years of having worked as the country director of care in Turkey is that we have all of us have prioritized prioritized packages over protections. Whether we like it or not, the response funding being limited as it may be, we have prioritized packages. Food packages, yes, it's important for us to be and ensure that people are fed, but in doing so we've also prioritized packages over protection and this really must change and I hope that we get a chance to discuss how we can turn the time so that the underfunding and the limitations on protection and the enforcement of rule of law and the building of leadership associated with that enforcement becomes our focus. I know that we will be talking a lot about aspects of documentation, housing, land and property rights. We'll be talking about the skills, resources needed for people to gain livelihoods so that they can make their own independent decisions. I know we'll be talking about issues related to gender-based violence in spaces where women and children and the elderly and the disadvantaged can seek protections without the fear of being exposed by those very institutions and persons who are there to protect them. I know that that will be part of the conversation, but I was also asked to talk about what I would like to do more as care as a country director of care in this regard and so I will in the remaining couple of minutes. First I want to take this opportunity to acknowledge a few things related to CARES programming. The first is that we have focused a lot on safe spaces for women and girls, awareness raising for young mothers, protection spaces, and our programming has really been very grassroots, very community-led and community-driven. But I don't think we can turn the tide of any of this work if we're not talking about the other pillar, which is around ensuring that whatever policies are being developed now, whatever legal frameworks are being developed now, whatever capacities are being developed now to enforce the rule of law requires our attention as well. And INGOs like CARES do not pay attention to that pillar. We pay attention to the pillar of community-driven and community-based responses, and that is a regret, but it's also an eye-opener for me. How do we work with organizations that are working on the legal frameworks, the enabling environment, the laws, the policies that support every member of the community to have trust in the rule of law? That is a failing on our part. I won't call it a failure. That's a part of our program that we're missing, and I'm sure there's a lot to learn from those organizations that are focusing on that pillar. And I'm keen to hear how we can do better so that we can address both sides of the aisle. The second is that I feel like to our disadvantage as an organization as well, we have really focused on organizations that have been prioritizing packages over protection. And I've spoken to many women's activists, organizations, platforms, networks who say to us, you really need to work with us on building the kind of leadership and the kind of voice for us to be able to lend to the development of policies and protection mechanisms at national level. And right now we are not doing that. And I can say that for many organizations operating, especially in the Northwest, we are really, we ourselves are prioritizing those organizations that are able to deliver packages rather than a commitment to rule of law. And I'm happy to for people to hold us accountable for that. But I'm also hoping that we can come out of this stronger in terms of the recommendations we make. I don't want to quote statistics around documentation. I see from the briefing paper that there will be statistics around documentation, issues related to land housing, land and property rights, GBV. So I just want to say that as care, there's a lot that we can do in collaboration with others right now to really adjust the way we work so that we are, we are focusing a little more on the enabling environment on the systems and structures rather than just focusing on, you know, community responses. Because at the end of the day, people will naturally want to claim their rights, but if there aren't the systems and laws and policies that enable them to do so, then we've only perhaps responded to half of the crisis. So I'll stop there. Thank you again for having me, Lorena. And obviously, I don't want to take too much more time, but thanks again. Thank you very much, Cherine. I think just to start the discussion, there are different points that resonate very strongly with the discussions that we are having with protection partners, I believe both in Northwestern notice. The first one is how we can shift from the discussion on humanitarian assistance that's been there for more than 10 years already to a situation in which we are providing core protection related response, which implies a significant issue on rule of law. And I believe that what you said in terms of people are relying on verbal agreements, it's very, very important because then access to justice becomes blurry. And then we don't have the systems in place to guarantee that it will improve. And the final point that I wanted to bring to the discussion is you were talking about leadership. That's another issue that we have to spoke about is how have we built the capacity from adolescence because they will be the ones rebuilding Syria in the years to come. And the question is, have we invested enough with them in the discussion of what justice looks like, what rule of law means, why it is important for the reconstruction of their country in the years to come. So these three messages, I believe are very, very important. And thank you very much, Sherene, for opening the discussion. We wanted to connect these elements with how the situation is currently in Northeast and Northwest. And we're very thankful to have different Syrian NGOs. So to open this specific discussion, I will give the floor to my colleague, Mulder. So Mulder, thank you very much. Over to you. Thank you, Lorena. Thank you, Sherene. Now I would like to introduce our themed panel of experts who will provide their analysis on the current situation of the rule of law in Northwest Syria and in Northeast Syria. And I will start with Abdullah Jarrah, who is a legal specialist working for Shaffa Organization. Abdullah, can you please open your camera as well? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Abdullah. That was very informative. And now we will go to watch a video prepared by our colleagues from GBVAR with the support from Ahsan Relief and Development Organization. Sorry, sorry. Let me go back. I forgot to share my screen. I'm so sorry. One second. Thank you, Abdullah. One second. There we go. I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that was great. And big thanks to Ahsan and GBVAR. Now I will go to Kinda, Al-Hurani, who is the Protection Program Manager with SEMA. Over to you, Kinda. Thank you very much, Mudar. Thank you. Thank you for having me with you today. Actually, I want to start from our colleagues at GBVAR stopped. It seems that the protection concerns in Northwest Syria that need legal interventions are very high. And for years, the absence of these services made our interventions sometimes lose their meaning and put both our beneficiaries and our staff under safety and security and many protection concerns. The provision of legal services has been challenged and the gap in Northwest Syria concerns contests due to political related issues and operational capacities and sometimes funding issues during the past years. However, the consolidations of risk after the earthquake raised the demands and the need to obtain civil documentations, those related to birth, custody, marriage and inheritance and HLP related issues by both IDPs and host communities. Actually, the protection cluster developed a strategy for legal provision that can strengthen the protection environment for the most affected population groups and finding durable solutions. These durable solution is about restoring the rights for IDPs, including their rights to security, property, housing, education, health and livelihood, access to effective remedies and justice as well as family reunification and accompanied and separated children. The main goals that we aim to achieve by conducting this strategy is that GBV and CB cases and general protection cases will be able to access legal services which will ensure a comprehensive protection interventions by our side and also IDPs women and men will be able to obtain their birth certificate, national IDs, civil status through accessible and available mechanism and we hope to reach a mutual acceptance by government and de facto authorities to the papers and hope to see this is a part of any political solution in the future. Also, we aim to see all IDPs have access to temporary shelters alternative and those collective evictions and risks of evictions are monitored by our teams and refer to related cluster to guarantee evictions effective response. Also, from our side, we are eager to have that to see that IDPs have access to documentations safeguarding alternatives to their HLP rights for future restitution and compensation process. Our strategy is not only aiming to provide legal services but to the affected people but also to improve the technical and operational capacity of partners to addressing the existing legal gaps, harmonize our response for all legal partners and exchange the technical and good practices and lessons learned that can strengthen the technical and capacity of the legal teams on the ground. That's all from my side. Thank you very much. Thank you, Kendra. Thank you. And now I would like to invite Alain Ahmed, a grant and fundraising manager from the Salam organization in northeast Syria. Yes, we can. Thank you, Alain. Thank you. Thanks a lot. And now I will go to Yara Bashir from the organization for development and environment. Over to you, Yara. And we have almost three minutes. Thank you, Yara. Thanks a lot. And I would like to thank all the speakers from northwest and northeast. And like after hearing the analysis on the current situation in northwest and northeast, I think this will take us to the next item, which is like talking about the capacities and response. Over to you, Lorena. Thank you. Thank you, all colleagues from the Syrian NGOs. There are many issues that we are trying to, when transitioning to the kind of services that the protection cluster has been providing into, as Sharon was saying at the beginning, more core protection-related response. We also wanted to do the analysis of where our capacities are because it's not only about how we decide to shift, but we need to make donors shift. We need to make programs shift. We need to make everybody shift. So what we wanted to share with you now was the analysis that we have made on the current legal capacity that we have to address those changes in northeast Syria and northwest Syria. So I will get the floor first to our colleague Gush, the coordinator for the Northeast Protection Cluster. So Gush, please go ahead. The floor is yours. Thank you. May I share my screen? Yes, please do that. Can you see it guys? Yes, we can. If you can just amplify your slide so we can see it bigger, Gush. And we have five minutes each. I will make it very quick. I don't know why. Just go, yeah, down. Yes, yes. You're perfect. Go ahead. Okay. Thank you so much, everyone. And I'm Gush Stakele from northeast Syria, the Protection Working Group Coordinator. So I will just focus on the existing capacities that we have in regards to the budgeting, to the gaps that we have just in general, in short. So as you know, like if we are starting talking about the rule of law, we need to talk about the existing actors who are, you know, influencing the rule of law in northeast Syria. So the self-administration is one, the government of Syria. We have also the Turkish Pact National Army that has like big chunk of like portion controlling and they have impacts on the rule of law. So the laws that are applicable in northeast Syria, one is the Syrian law that is actually, they have a presence called the Security Square in some small sports where they can run their courts as well as their civil registries. And also we have the self-administration where they can provide documentation as well. And they have also the police and they have also the police is maintaining the internal security and also counterterrorism, running security checkpoints and also engaging in emergency rescue operations. And then also there is also a court in the area where that is run by the self-administration and they have also the legislative special bodies that are mainly engaged in providing and issuing laws. And they have a commitment to prevent recruitment of children also northeast Syria side by since 2014 by the self-administration. So these are actually like the security apparatus as well as the laws that are applicable in our area. And there are, this leads to having like two types of documentation. One is a formal documentation that's provided by the government of Syria and the other one is informal documentation that is not accepted by the government of Syria but provided by the self-administration. And then, but they can be somehow work in the self-administration checkpoints and, you know, in the office of the self-administration as well. But the government issued documentation for example HLP, civil status documentation are accepted by the self-administration, not vice versa. The other important document being provided is the newcomer's ID. And this ID is provided by the self-administration. But this document is only provided for the IDPs who are originally from the government control area. And when they come to self-administration, they need to have that document. Having that document is actually very difficult because first of all you have to pass through different checkpoint which is not easy. And second, you need to have a sponsor from northeast Syria who was able to take responsibility on behalf of you. So this actually restricts the IDPs to access to documentation. So just, I just borrowed this map to be able to see from the partners on the ground. You can see like the upper yellowish color, I mean the kind of pinkish color is controlled by the Turkish box rebel groups. But all the armies and then the other, the biggest area is controlled by SDF or the self-administration. As you can see, I've tried to point out the government control areas. These are the very small spots where they run the court and then civil registry exercises. And it is very difficult to access those locations and you have to pass different hurdles like the checkpoints and in the checkpoints different things happen. And probably we can discuss more on that what happens there, how are we going to access those locations, especially for IDPs and then also for the host communities. These are actually serving for all the communities, all communities residing in northeast Syria in regardless of their status. So just we, I would just like to give a highlight on, we conducted, I don't know, I cannot see the, okay, we conducted household survey that was conducted, I think from May 2022 up to May 2023 for 1,312 household survey was collected. And it reflects that the ID, the gap that they have is the majority of the people, I mean, not majority. Around 43% of the IDPs don't have ID cards. And then around, yes, around 49% don't have a registration. So this is like for the last one year. So this one is not representative. This household survey was collected from some of the camps and some of the host communities, but it's not representative. But it will give us a clue how big the gap it is and accessing to those locations is also very difficult. And we can imagine the gaps that we have on the ground. So the current capacity that we have, I mean, we have around 2.7 million population in us based on the OSHA reports. And the budget we have is we have only two partners operating. And then partner one has around 160,000, partner two has around 630,000. We are only doing legal awareness raising on HLP, civil documentation in the hazards. We have also assistance in legal advising and counseling. We don't do court representation because of the peculiarity of the context. And we have only two partners operating and responding on that. I try to put on the graph like the last four months of interventions from our capacity. And this is this is a map that you can see. These are the areas where we have a presence. And then these are the interventions of from January to April 2020. We can see the gaps that we have. And with the hurdles, with all the challenge and the capacity that we have on the ground is very limited. And then also with the complexity of the issues accessing to those locations, security and safety. These are actually one of the biggest problem that we are facing. But this is the intervention that we can we can provide from from our side. The barriers, challenges and gaps probably we'll discuss in detail during the round table discussion. But I would like to highlight that the lack of funding and capacity to address the issues is one of the problems that we are facing. Most of the locations, especially in Aleppo side, Mimbić, Kobani, we don't have any presence. And then also the Turkish controlled area, we don't have any presence. We don't have access to those locations. Host communities, we don't have that much bigger, bigger kind of presence in regards to intervention rule of law. And, you know, the hurdles, the challenge that IDPs and local communities are facing to access those locations is really huge. It needs advocacy, it needs we are trying our best to our level to the capacity that we have. But still, we are a little bit tied up with with with the resources and capacity that we have at hand. Thank you so much. I hope I finish on time, Lorena. You did. Thank you very much, Gouesh. And then we wanted also to compare the situation on our side. And for that, do you want to continue? Yes. We also wanted to share with you where our capacity is at the moment, if I can close this. So basically, what we did also, as the colleagues from North East, is that we ran a rapid protection assessment right after the earthquake. It was conducted in 259 communities with about 1579 KIs. And we were asking one of the questions that we included was whether they were facing HLP related issues and 27% of them confirmed they were facing either evictions, loss of property related documents, homelessness. So what you see in this map basically is the comparison between the areas in which at the community level, those are the blue balloons that you can see there. Those are at the community level where the HLP related issues were reported. Not a surprise. And then I'm linking with the interventions from Syrian colleagues in the previous panel. If you can see that there is a like a very relevant concentration in a frame where we also have, of course, ethnic groups. So the linkage with what colleagues were talking about the situation with the correlation, the different ethnic groups that we have and the connection on that with HLP related issues. When you look at the different colors between orange and brown kind of, this is the discussion at the district level. So of course the areas that are darker are the ones where the impact on HLP related issues is very high. One element that Kinda was mentioning in her intervention is that we are now facing risks of eviction from reception centers. We have about 96 reception centers in northern Syria and 26% of them have already received an eviction notification that could take place between now and the next three months. So we have a magnitude of a problem that is really important and we haven't yet run the eviction monitoring tool in HLP sites. So this 26% is only related to reception centers. The magnitude of the problem could be much, much more higher. And also if you look at the cross lines in some of these areas, this is a report that was run by one of the protection partner members, Takapula Chum, where they included the question of whether people had lost their documents after the earthquake, 88% of them said yes. So if you look at the map, you will see that there are areas where we have a concentration on HLP related issues but also a concentration in terms of the loss of identification documents. We also, in order to see how we could improve the response conducted a legal assessment with our partners, it is important to say that the protection cluster in northern Syria has 85 partners but only 17 of them are providing legal related services. So we asked them in the first column what kind of services they were providing. As you will see and these connects with our north east Syria, most of them are doing awareness. And awareness of course means just explaining the different rights, the alternatives, but it's not core related response. And we had different issues regarding birth certification, IDs, some very small capacity in accompaniment in HLP related issues, documents drafting, but you can see that our capacity has been concentrated in awareness, counseling and advice and that's it. We also asked the partners what areas were being requested by communities but we were not providing. And this is what you saw in the video and also connected to the Syrian NGOs that intervened. There is a huge percentage related to GBB issues with 70% on domestic violence. 60% this was also addressed in the previous interventions on disappeared and missing persons. This is an issue that has caught our attention because it was relevant in the RPA and it also came out in the different surveys that we have done. Power of attorney, 40%, divorce, alimony, 40% inheritance that is also linked to for example, HLP related to women and access to property with 30% and you see the rest are the issues that we already identified like birth certification, civil documentation and so forth. With this information, we also wanted to understand our capacity in terms of funds. So with this information that you see on the screen is related to our HRP funding. So we requested 20.6. We have secured 7.3 million. If you look at the overall HRP for northwest Syria, we have secured between 5% and 6% which is very very low. And out of these 7.3 that we have secured only for like 900,000 is dedicated to legal provision of service. So we believe that the magnitude of the need with the capacity that we have is absolutely underfunded from where we are trying to move forward. The other issue that we wanted to share with you is like how did how is cut the provision of services. So the areas in which you see highlighted are the ones where this 900,000 is being implemented basically. But you can see that there is like concentration is in some border areas which is relevant because the action where we believe protection risks of course are heightened. But there is like a very started response that we are doing with the current 16 partners that we have. And finally we wanted to compare the situation between 2022 and 2023 related to legal services. What you see on the left side is the services that we are providing in Aleppo and on the next side is the services that we are providing in Idlib. As you can see our main focus has been in Idlib. This is linked of course to security concerns to the capacity in terms of access to the presence of partners but also concerns from partners in terms of security related issues as our colleagues from Northeast were mentioning. And again you can see that the concentration has been and will continue and is yet still in awareness and counseling. So what we have done for the latest allocation of funds through the SCHF and the AFNS is to request partners to increase their legal capacity. We launched a legal strategy one month ago to guide partners on how to somehow go further awareness and counseling into provision of core related legal services. And those areas that we identified in the assessment are the ones where we have increased our capacity. So we are hoping to move between our current capacity between maybe 25-40 lawyers on the ground to 50-60 lawyers that will help us guarantee this provision of services. And finally the provision of legal services from our legal strategy includes three areas. The first one is services, individual services provision. The second one is the draft of the strategy that we want to launch for the eviction situation to mitigate exposure to protection risks and guarantee that evictions will happen in an organized manner. And the third one is HLP. In HLP we are starting the design of the safeguarding of documents in northwest Syria. And all of these we are hoping to be able to include in the donor's development for their strategy in 2024 so we can increase our funding capacity. As said before and linked to what Shereen was mentioning in the opening remarks, we are also doing the advocacy process with our partners so they can understand why we are making this shifting and why the need is there to move into core protection response and maybe distance ourselves a little from case management, identification and referral and provision of packages. We want to move into legal frameworks and access to justice. But that also implies that we have to create the technical capacity from partners and also at the community level to understand this shift. So this discussion on the legal capacity is also connected to why we need to understand the relevance of rule of law into a discussion of transitional justice. So that's the reason why we invited to this conversation our colleague from OSCHR. So I just want to check if Skylar is connected to hand over to you. Yes, so Skylar over to you so you can introduce Theo into the conversation. Thank you over to you. Thanks, Lorena. So now that we've heard about the current context in northeast and northwest Syria and from the protection clusters on the capacities for rule of law response in northeast and northwest Syria, we're going to hear from Theo. I apologize that I will butcher your last name. So I'm going to skip it. Who is currently the head of the rule of law and transitional justice unit for OHCHR as Lorena said to hear about the current needs and capacities to address rule of law situations in Syria. Theo over to you. Thanks a lot. Can you hear me well? Thanks a lot for the invitation. I try to be brief but maybe extracting from some of the key points that came out from the earlier speakers and this overview of of challenges and try to bring in back as you said Lorena the issue of the legal framework. And the first thing I would say is from what we heard and all the experiences of the people in this virtual room is that there is a kind of tension between the very concept of rule of law which is very about clarity, security, transparency, very focused on a functioning state system from the judicial to the actual access to rights and the current situation in north of Syria. And I think this fundamentally requires to be innovative as you said before to be creative but also to stick to the main principles that are related to the rule of law. But when it comes to the advocacy, when it comes to finding solutions, we need to be innovative and I know that after 12 years of conflict and violence this is a challenge in itself. So maybe allow me to very briefly make few remarks and that's also something we encounter within the work of the OHCHR office for Syria in terms of navigating this notion of rule of law in the context of the north. I would say the first aspect has to do with the fact that for rule of law to be effective you need to have as an individual you need to have security and information when it comes to your rights and to the avenues to claim those rights. You also need equality before the law but as we saw the law is when it comes to the north of Syria is a complex aggregation of policies from non-state actors down to also very important aspect when it comes to Syrian law but also the fact that the government of Syria is not recognizing documents or procedures or documentation from the defect to authorities. So here I think for an effective rule of law types of intervention in the north of Syria it's very much about how you navigate this dichotomy between what you could call the traditional rule of law notion that is really Syrian law compatible with international standards and then all these arrays of laws, policies, legislation, court of conduct, commitments by defect to authorities but also actual conduct by non-state actors that impact the enjoyment of rights and I think something very very clear even if there's of course a lot of challenges when it comes to access when it comes to resources and funding. One main pillar for the rule of law is all this action when it comes to making people aware of their rights and providing support for them to exercise rights and then navigate as we saw where to exercise rights if for example courts established by the defect to authorities in the north east are not recognized and this brings me back to another very important point that has to do with identifying obligations and responsibilities of all those actors and I think here the advocacy is very much about how you can intervene considering these different points of entry. So when it comes to obligations and responsibilities of non-state actors I think from a rule of law and human rights point of view it's still very important to recognize that they don't only have obligations under international image and law as parties to the conflict because a lot of those international image and law obligations might not be enough to cover a lot of the protection risks and issues and concerns that you identify and looking at human rights obligations of non-state actors is key to fill those gaps because under international image and law it's sometimes silent on a lot of those issues and it's a starting point but we have to recognize that from the perspective of that framework it would only get us so far in terms of providing legal arguments when it comes to the parts the conflict and non-state armed groups and in that context there is a lot to be said on human rights obligations that are really arising for those actors non-state actors by the mere fact that their behavior undermine or affect the enjoyment of human rights and the moment they act like a kind of government with effective control and that their conduct affect the enjoyment of rights those human rights obligations comes into play and they are very important because they're going to be dealing with a lot of those issues that we discussed which is the which is civil documentation which is access to rights which have to do with the daily life and those rights in that context and then we should I think also make sure that we don't forget the fact that the government of Syria still has human rights obligations including we've regard to two territories out of its control this is very important for one aspect in particular when it comes to the recognition of the validity of those documents issued by de facto authorities even if the human rights obligation of the government of Syria in those areas are somehow more limited they are still they're still based on what they can do and this is a very practical consequences is that because they have the ability to recognize those documents and that those documents are key for people in those areas to exercise their rights this recognition is an obligation of the human rights law so that's something I wanted to highlight this need to first intervene taking into account these complex legal frameworks and take into account these really two main categories of actors when it comes to human rights obligations and it's true that sometimes we have a tendency to mostly reliant on international immigration law where it comes to having an impact when it comes to human rights and designing advocacy human rights law is fundamental in that regard I will leave it to that that was really a broad kind of overview in terms of the key things that need to be considered but very happy to answer any of your questions and thanks again for the invitation over to you Skylar any reactions before giving the start to the round table yes thank you very much Thorina and thank you Theo so looking at what we've seen so the context now the capacities looking at the legal strategies that have been produced by the protection clusters it does truly align with what Theo was saying people need to be aware of their rights there needs to be support for them in exercising their rights and there are obligations on the actors in place so within our scope of capacities we really need to look at emphasizing these applications so that people can exercise their rights where the authorities are blocking that and ensuring that the rule of law is met through actors living up to their obligations and people being able to exercise their rights so on the next round table yeah thank you Skylar and Theo so now we'll be moving to the round table discussion and on the first round table we'll talk about challenges and strategic actions on to improve rule of law in northwest and northeast Syria and I have with me Jennifer against from IRC and Jennifer is our policy advocacy and communication coordinator for Syria I have also very enough from CPAOR co-coordinator northwest Syria and also I have Sarah Adamchak with the ICLA specialist from NRC so I'll start the discussion with the question of what actions are needed to guarantee the rule of law in northwest and northeast and I'd like to start with Verena, Verena over to you thank you thank you Mota very nice to be in that event and the situation in not as serious very challenging for a child to grow up children are at risk of many CVA child protection threats and concerns and just to a few examples like rape violations are documented all over northwest Syria including their recruitment and use killing and maiming and also we noticed an increase of numbers of trafficking of children children and detention and also children living without parental care and already before the earthquake it was recorded that 1.9 million children in northwest Syria are in need of humanitarian services and the earthquake of course exacerbated the already existing risks and threats to children now we actually talk of 2.4 million children only in northwest Syria and who are in need of humanitarian support and that's that so child protection mechanisms are not in existence at the moment so at that stage most child protection services are provided by NGOs there's little connection between the NGOs and the de facto authorities and the response so far is very focused on the provision of individual support so mainly through case management and the same case management they often provide cash and they provide in kind and also family tracing and reunification as managed the Cindy umbrella of case management however we can also need to question us that they're in the 12th year of a humanitarian response right so how much longer do we really want to focus on individual support without seeing much change like in fact now the situation after the earthquake is even worse for children than before and as we are talking about a prolonged humanitarian crisis and holistic interventions targeting the child but also his or her living environment are really needed to change that narrative and this means we need to shift from mainly providing individual support responding to a child protection risk to focus more on prevention so we need to move from the individual support to support whole communities and build up child protection systems and structures former and non-formal one and I'm not saying we need to stop this the individual support that's very much needed but you also need to think beyond the individual support I'm taking the example of unaccompanied and separated children at that key issue in North West Syria and they just recently dig into the root causes of family separation and they are numerous and very diverse so there's not a single approach or nor a single sector who can actually target the root causes of family separation and therefore integrated approaches and yeah multi-sectoral interventions are actually needed and some of their root causes are fueled by harmful and cultural norms attitudes and behavior and these for example need to be addressed by a whole of population approach the topics of positive parenting for example but also raising awareness about the different developmental stages of childhood including adolescence and seem to be very important to get discussed in addition and it's recommended to explore how to strengthen the legal responsibility of parents to actually take care of their children and we also need to strengthen the system of supporting families who are already at higher risk of family separation for example children with identified family structures that often lead to family separation like email headed household they need clear monitoring and family support it doesn't need to be under case management it can be a community approach you can actually um work on it and very important is to understand that most unaccompanied and separated children are adolescent boys so we really need to invest more specifically to support and address um adolescent boys and yeah overall for the topic of unaccompanied and separated children it requires really standardized and interagency structures and procedures and that also includes guidelines for legal procedures of abandoned children another key child protection concern in most with syria child recruitment and then also children in detention it's similar as for the topic of family separation we really need to ask ourselves how can we prevent recruitment and also children ending up in detention and as of now there's a lack of information and we really need to dig deeper into the topic to find durable solutions um however for discharge protection risk we need to make the fact that authority is accountable and joint advocacy will be needed in addition we also need more organization who really focus on supporting children in detention there's currently also a gap in responding um for those children among other issues on the dimension couple of times now is the civil registration including the birth certificates one of the big concerns in northwest syria so births frequently go undocumented leaving children at high risk of statelessness and a previous nsd research found that 20 percent of all surveyed respondents aged five years or even younger were not listed in a family booklet it didn't have like a birth certificate nor a birth notification and of course unregistered children are very vulnerable um for child protection risks and also access to education or other um essential services very limited for undocumented or undocumented children and for example children need to have an id card issued by a de facto authority if they want to apply for primary or secondary exams so as child protection actors we need to address that um legal interventions have not been prioritized in our programs but we really need to look um into the topic of civil registration components and what can be done to ensure that the next generation of syrians are not undocumented um yeah to sum it up the needs are growing um the resources are limited and we really need to shift our focus on prevention building up systems and structures which also integrate legal components to protect children and also to do that we really need integrated approaches working closely with the protection sector education and health but also um livelihood thank you so much thank you very enough and now I would like to invite Jennifer to hear her thoughts from the policy end advocacy point of view thank you very much for having me and I agree with Sherry it's a bit difficult to know where to look because we have the camera in front and a very nice participant in the room also and I think what's really been clear today especially from the presentations that we've had is that this is an ongoing acute protracted crisis which year on year brings new challenges which create further barriers especially when it comes to protection and I think the elephant in the room for all of us and I think as Lorraine has summed up uh very clearly is that the magnitude of the needs uh doesn't really meet our capacity to respond especially when it comes to the kind of funding that we're seeing being made available especially when it comes to sectors such as protection and I think this is really going to be a clear issue that's coming up repeatedly during this process conference and then a lot of the side events that we're having I think you know with these year on year challenges and new crisis it creates further barriers for sustainable futures for Syrians inside Syria and protection and rule of law is really uh key to that you know the great scale of needs the continuing violations of international humanitarian and human rights law continuing displacement increase in negative coping mess mechanisms you know we've been hearing it from Verena we're hearing it from all of the other participants so I want to take the time to repeat many of those things and also increasing gender-based violence and I think the video from our partner has showed very clearly the kind of challenges that women are specifically facing when it comes to accessing you know rule of law and legal mechanisms especially when it comes to violations uh you know and accountability for gender-based violence you know this is all as we have heard already created a weakened protective environment it also undermines resilience and it challenges recovery you know it places a strain on individuals and communities to secure their basic needs and also to ensure their safety you know many especially in northwest as we have heard have been through multiple displacement cycles and then in areas such as north east Syria we have duplicity of legal structures which place both physical and administrative burdens on people in order to be able to access the kinds of documentation that they need to to access basic services and rights I think also you know in general we're finding that opportunities quite limited due to the political context and the different powers and de facto ruling authorities in the parts of Syria create a lack of a uniform you know execution of rule of law which often provides extra challenges so I think when we go back to looking at that question which you posed motor which is specifically around you know guaranteeing that what can we do to guarantee rule of law and northeast and northwest Syria as I said I think key to this will certainly be around access to increased funding and donors really will have an essential part to play within this you know in order to expand legal assistance to really meet those increasing needs that we've been hearing our partners in Syria and also in the room today talking about we really need to ensure that there is increased funding in order to be able to do this in a sustainable long-term basis and that means also looking at the kind of funding that's made available to make sure that it's not just short-term immediate you know cycles of funding but looking at system strengthening and that means multi-annual more flexible funding which can also increase the kinds of protection services on a longer-term basis that we'll be able to provide and I think that moves a lot into Lorena what you were saying about looking forward you know in the years to come. I think also from the work that we've been doing in IRC we've been seeing that cash for protection is also really an essential part of a response post-earthquake you know we found this really essential rapid needs assessment that we did at the time which I work with you on you know showed that around 90 percent of the households had a decrease in their access to income generation sources and also one in five of the households we interviewed had a lack of civil documentation they also cited that the key barrier that they had for access in their civil documentation was cost and also transportation cost you know so if we're really looking at how we want to and as we've heard from everybody this you know access to civil documentation is really actually barrier in terms of creating and generating better rule of law within Nigeria you know providing communities and individuals with the assistance that they need in order to be able to get to those services I think is really key moving forward and should be a big part especially when we look at the kinds of assistance we are looking for donors to provide. I think also we need to make sure that all of our protection systems moving forward is gender informed and while we're seeing this global decrease in overseas development decisions you know a tight name of wallets in terms of the amount of money that's being given to prices long-term protracted prices such as Syria when we are looking at designing and implementing our protection and rule of law services that we make sure that they are gender informed because it's been really clear coming out today that this is going to be a vital need and it's often something that gets reduced whenever the overall budget gets reduced so we need to make sure it's always at the forefront of the work that we're doing in order to make sure that we can you know guarantee accessible rule of law for all in all Syria. I think also looking at building capacities of local authorities especially when it comes to international human rights and humanitarian law is going to be key including Geneva Convention, protection of civilians and especially the rights of detainees and also looking to improve the functionality and access to informal justice systems that do exist in North East Syria and North East Syria you know and this includes tribal systems religious authorities and local municipalities because those systems do exist and we should be understanding and figuring out how we can not build you know understanding knowledge capacity etc. Also we need urgent solutions to registering civil status of third country nationals and their children especially in North East Syria and it's also key in terms of guaranteeing access to rule of law especially in North East for those especially in such as Al Hol or Al Raj and I think also finally we need to strengthen our referral pathways for organizations and private actors you know we we exist with each other to build a sustainable future board and we need to make sure that we're working collectively to make sure that we have a holistic and sustainable approach moving forward for Syrians that are living within Syria and also we need to make sure that we're working with those and referring to those that organizations especially that have representation possibilities both inside non-government controlled areas and government controlled areas thank you I try not to take up too much time because like it's clock in front of me also yeah thanks thanks a lot Sarah Jennifer and now I would like to invite Sarah a class specialist from NRC over to you Sarah is she's there I don't know I mean Fatima are you with us I'm here but I'm waiting for Sarah as she wants to present points for Iqlo so maybe you can start Fatima since we have Sarah with us just give me a minute to discuss at all check with her if she not heard I will start she says she's online but she needs to enable me to come around Sarah can you try now Mujir can you can you enable her because she's yeah with this hopefully you can yes we can hear you now and we can see you now not yet yeah can you try again and Sarah you have three minutes hi so apologies for this sorry hopefully you can see and hear me now yeah we can yeah I'll keep my on my comments brief because I don't want to repeat things that other colleagues have already already stated I think they provided us a good example of the legal framework both domestic and international law as well as some clear data on the needs I think one of the key things to focus on is what does this mean in terms of the lived experiences for those in northwest and northeast Syria as they try to this complex legal landscape and also and again as others have stated and Lorraine said at the outside how do we provide legal support in line with humanitarian principles given the complexities of this of this landscape as we all know the conflict and area territorial control in Syria have not been static over the past 12 years and what that has meant gas different de facto authorities throughout that period have each issued their own documents and so it's created this myriad of documents which people must have people might possess at this point and trying to again see which ones will be accepted by which authorities I think we're also again 12 years on looking at this increasingly becoming multi-generational so you have children being born to a generation that themselves is undocumented or it has not been able to document their marriages or births and this is only going to continue and I think also for those living again in northwest and northeast Syria it's often you know an option what is the least bad option and this is something we've gotten from our own direct work from research and focus groups you know can obtain the the documents issued by de facto authorities with the knowledge that these will not be recognized out of those areas of control for those who want to try to obtain government documents it's often available very costly travel and again I think there's issues related to freedom of movement and access to documentation particularly for those in camps in northeast Syria where they cannot freely move and cannot obtain obtain documents from the registries so I was looking at again just with cognizant of the time what would be the clear recommendations for rule of law in in both northwest northeast Syria I think one thing that that's that's missing from my side and I think Theo touched on it is trying to have some global guidance and framework on how do we engage by de facto authorities or non-state actors and I know Martina wasn't able to join but I think it also this has been discussed with the global protection cluster the task team on law and policy because Syria is not the only context in which this is arising in fact there's a growing number of places where there's a proliferation of documents by different authorities I think we have to have and I'm really thankful that other speakers have mentioned the gender dimension ensuring that there's you know gender equality both in the in the actual black letter of the law so we know that's not the case with the nationality law and I think there should be greater advocacy for changing that for women to provide their citizenship to their children so as well as I think just in general the gender dimensions of documentation so documents that are issued at a household level or you know lack of female staff and civil registries lack of supporting documentation particularly again for women whose husbands may have died or disappeared or missing unless if they're able unable to prove that that relationship their children are at risk of statelessness we've also seen situations of collective punishment so women being denied access to documentation on the alleged affiliation of male family members whether or others I think on that note one thing that we've advocated for and I think we need to continue to press is to ensure documents no matter which authority has issued them are not conflated with affiliation or support for that group and a recognition that instead for people living in those areas those may be the only documents available to to document vital life events and they should be accepted as prima facie evidence of the happening of those events and I think again one of the reasons we're all here is to expand humanitarian programming and support on legal assistance with a view to the short medium and long-term impacts and it is again a difficult thing to for when none of us really know what the future holds for Syria so how do we look at what are some of the long-term effects and preventing against statelessness I think with donors as others have said increased funding for key for legal assistance programs but I also would advocate for greater clarity on engagement with de facto authorities on these issues in both northwest and northeast particularly northwest where we repeatedly hear that there's red lines in terms of engagement to have some clarity on that and finally and again colleagues from the gbb and and cp sub-clusters have already mentioned but I think also looking for the linkages between legal identity civil documentation and how that plays into child protection concerns and gbb concerns um so I'll pause there I'll stop there but those um I've been looking forward to the to the q&a in discussion thank you motor thank you thank you sir so um I'm gonna take like two questions like two pressing questions from uh colleagues online or here in the room you can click on the chat with the q&a link down there there are a few comments here yeah yeah do you want to um ask the question yeah like uh for colleagues online you can raise your hand and we can hear your question but we know already answered the question with child protection so that's done can we very quickly so there was the question um on um the cases of boys getting separated from their mothers because they live in oh my video because they live in um widow camps so on what can be done um about that so what's happening is that child protection actors they're actually advocating that um and the children are not getting separated so there was this practice that boys in the age of 13 have to move out from the camp so now they've been advocating that they can actually stay together so what happened is when the boys are 13 and that age that they're not allowed to live in the widow camp anymore the practices that the family moves out and lives the child into another camp and so that they can stay together so that was a practice by um I heard like the de facto authorities who um wanted the separation but it's on hold in some areas and because of advocacy but that needs to go on so definitely it's an issue and to explore what else can be done and I mentioned a few of the things before and about the family separation like um there needs to be a focus for and those and boys adults and boys how we can support them thank you thank you very much so uh we'll take questions from here and then from Murad thank you so much do you hear me yeah go ahead all right well the question is more of a general overview after hearing uh from the experts from the north east and northwest uh regarding the situation well and given the past experience of the census that uh was conducted in 1962 I think uh for where the Kurdish um I mean the Kurdish a huge chunk of them did not get the citizenship um until it was just restored in 2011 so given this bad experience happened and due to a census so in what way we can guarantee that this will not be happening in the future I know one way is that we are working on which is the legal work which is very much indeed needed but what other forms of advocacy can be made in order to guarantee and nothing else will be done in the same manner so no people from the northeast and northwest will lose this right thank you so much thank you yeah um I take the question from Murad and then we'll answer go ahead Murad okay thank you very much uh can you hear me yeah okay um so thanks to all the speakers first of all and to the the discussions my question is um I'll kind of reiterate what I tried to write maybe if not clear on transitional justice and its definition in this context because what I understood from all this which is very useful for me at least is um a good a good understanding at the end of the day of what it means to be doing protection work legal aid and support to civil documentation issues in this operating environment which is you know given all of the political legal and ongoing security risks but um I understood from the at least introduction that I'm trying to understand at least to my mind how we're understanding or defining transitional justice per se in this context especially coming from a context like South Sudan or others where you see that usually part and parcel of a political or peace agreement um that accompanies it and then you have transitional justice mechanisms that are looking into that including such as issues of reconciliation truth um and and all of those type of things that are associated so so is the discussion really about um the challenges of doing protection legal aid work in the environment as we find it today or are we trying to envisage a transitional justice process or is it in some kind of thinking at any level um so that's that's uh one one question I I wanted to put to the group with that thank you thank you Murat um so um Jennifer I want to talk about the like advocacy and I go to Sarah too um certainly yeah thank you very much and really nice to be able to have this discussion even though we're running out of time swiftly and I think most of us here are dying from the week um but yeah no I think definitely there's always going to be concerns about repetition in terms of lots of access to certain legal provisions especially as the context continues to change and it's very dynamic and I think year on year as we know it's very difficult to predict what different um political geographical changes might happen that might put people further at risk of losing access to civil documentation as as was mentioned by Yahya I think in terms of advocacy and what we can do towards this is similar to what has been mentioned by many people in the room today and you know as we discussed which is obviously about increasing the funding being made to be able to ensure that we have community being able to access the kinds of legal services that they need including access to the correct avenues to be able to get the civil documentation that they need because it's very clear from everyone today that this is a our key barrier and challenge to be able to access all of the wide range of protection services but also other basic needs I think also in terms of that uh capacity building and also the referral pathway I think ensuring that we have a comprehensive approach across each of these things will create complementary pathways and ensure sustainability moving forward especially if we look at lessons learned in terms of what's happened before to really ensure that that we don't have communities facing those issues again and that we can ensure that there is a continuation of services and a kind of resilience provided to those services to ensure that any kind of crisis happen moving forward ensure that people remain interested especially when it comes to access to transportation. Thank you. Thank you Jennifer. So you have like one minute to address the transition. So on that I mean it's an excellent point what does transitional justice mean in the Syrian context today? I don't really have a simple answer on that I mean I think I've been working you know in Syria long enough where there were initiatives earlier in about 2014 where there was the Ajax and ILAC programs that were meant to essentially create almost shadow registries that would be merged in a post-conflict setting. We're not talking in in those terms at the moment so I don't know how we're framing you know what the framing is. One of the I mean one of the the base goal for me is maybe not necessarily the language of transitional justice but in terms of just ensuring documentate I mean so this is one of the things that comes up with again our team's work is you know proof of existence so that you don't have a child that lives and dies and there's literally no documentation that they exist and whether those documents could be recognized at a later date but but again I don't have a simple answer to that one unfortunately I don't know if others do. Yahya two excellent points I'll wrap up I don't have yeah also excellent comment on the Kurdish minority what happened with the census as we know with all things in Syria it's you know even civil documentation becomes massively politicized but it is something we keep you know whether they're how this will affect religious ethnic minorities or even demographic changes so again Yahya I think we've discussed previously on HLP issues where this might come up and again how will documents be used so I think we've also had the discussion in northwest Syria they're issuing ID cards and linking those moors to salaries how else might they be used and the short answer is we don't know I think there is stuff we could learn you know particularly on global on regional work on statelessness but yeah again not a not a excellent point but I don't have a straightforward answer on that. Yeah thanks thanks and thanks Jennifer and we're in of course like for the valuable contribution. What do you want to know? So we were we were discussing and thank you very much for our panelists I know Lucie you have your hand up promise to give you the floor when we finalized this this discussion so we talked a little about the actions and but we also wanted to address where we identified the opportunities and the challenges that are there maybe from the previous discussion some of these challenges have already been mentioned so just to give like a quick overview about this we have with us for this discussion Farid Thakuri which is the co-coordinator for the GBV AOR in northwest Syria so Farid over to you if you can share with us like some specific challenges opportunities that you have identified for GBV and role of action so over to you Farid. Thank you thank you Lorena yeah I would like to start with the challenges and first of all would be the most important challenge is the discrimination that still prevents women and girls from accessing these legal protection and services you know inequalities in power and gender norms contribute to GBV at the same time hindering women's participation in decision-making public social and political realms and above all of course legal sector which is we can all sense in northwest Syria lack of female attorneys for example or legal specialist female legal specialist and judges so these patriarchal norms traditions and also institutions that maintain gender inequality and of course most of them act unfortunately normalize these violations against women and girls and stigmatize even and even stigmatize women and girls demanding exercising their legal rights or even seeking legal solutions for any injustice they face like family issues inheritance and domestic violence above all. Another challenge which is the kind of like you know this stigma that arise because of this negative attitude towards or against women asking for their rights I can mention quickly for example in the last GBV IMS report the first quarter of 2023 that of the total services with declined referrals more than 30 percent were for legal assistance services so GBV survivors declined referrals mostly due to this sensitivity of the service besides the presence of barriers for example fear of retaliation besides for the absence of community acceptance of these or such legal services to be delivered to women and girls. I mean add also another challenge which is the lack of trust in rule of law and any kind of like judicial system in northwest Syria we hear that from many GBV experts in focus group discussions conducting recently in Aleppo and Idlib many of them mentioned that many at risk women and girls and GBV survivors abstain from restoring legal solutions or even requesting help from the fact to law and judicial systems in northwest Syria due to this lack of trust or feeling like this despair of gaining the rights through these de facto legal challenge. Another another layer of challenges would be also the kind of gap of legal awareness and the capacity of the GBV field workers which we believe it is very essential to properly advise and refer GBV cases and minimize legal consequences that might face a woman and girls. Unfortunately many GBV cases got complicated and legal consequences due to this kind of lack of awareness or awareness weakness and legal matters in northwest Syria context. Another challenge could be also the absence of legal specialized or local specialized legal organizations or institutions besides of course the gap in the organizational capacity of the active GBV actors to provide legal services to women and girls. Last one I would like to mention is the reduced fund to GBV programs in northwest Syria and particularly for women and girls safe spaces. These safe spaces we consider them are the primary entry for GBV services in northwest Syria where women and girls feel safe to disclose violations seek legal support in fact maintaining good relationship and genuine trust with local communities require enhancing sustainability of these of these centers. When it comes to opportunities and I mean after analyzing the situation current situation and field observation many discussions with the field workers through these field visits we see that the de-escalation of military action in northwest Syria could give us the opportunity or give them all protection actors the opportunity to focus more in developing context of previous legal remedies to GBV cases. If we look at the structure of the governance so the situation in northern Aleppo is not that optimal with many armed groups and no centralized let's say a governance structure however the situation in Aleppo could be somehow relatively better with one de facto governance structure the salvation government presence. Besides what we also noticed that there is some kind of like increased awareness towards the importance of providing GBV or let's say protection to women and girls many segments of the community even people affiliated with de facto authorities in northwest Syria acknowledge the importance of rule of law and also the need for legislations and let's say strong gender-friendly legal system that might be able to address such issues or even protect women and girls after years of legal system absence, chaos and anarchy. We heard also from many law practitioners and attorneys in northwest Syria that they acknowledge the importance of strong legal system after all these as head of anarchy many of them even advocate for adequate equitable legislation that aims and protecting women and girls we sense a good opportunity to collaborate with many of them and have them as allies in our side in addressing these matters and promoting the rule of law in northwest Syria. Finally I would like to mention these increased global community's interest in moving towards early recovery and decarimides realistic relevant long-term outcomes in fact to provide comprehensive GBV response. Many or let's say most of GBV cases require legal support which can be provided just by focusing on emergency intervention only over to you Lorena. Thank you very much Farid thank you I would like to compliment the points that you raised through Bahia Syrikan from policy and advocacy manager from NRC Syria so Bahia I hope to thank you Lorena and thank you for hosting these events and opening the Brussels conference week and the inside events to take it a little bit. I think a lot of the challenges have already been identified by all the micro disasters and the lack of civil documentation of course is one of them the most important and I think we saw it through the different presentations at individual level and at household level it can have an impact on everything access to basic needs from access to basic needs to access to a little bit more programs or activities that could allow people to be a bit more resilient to look into more durable solutions. In a report that we released a few weeks ago we had one of our one of the people we work with before saying I'm a dead person standing on two seats because I don't have civil documentation and I think it's a very very it's an image that's that is really important and it really shows how much civil documentation can can be a lack of civil documentation can be a big barrier to anything people are allowed or should be allowed to to have access to on a daily basis. We are we are looking into a generation that is being raised in in an invisible way. A lot of children don't have access to education because of the lack of civil documentation. In the northwest we saw a lot of kids for example with heavy health issues who are supposed to be referred to Turkey who could not go because of the lack of civil documentation because of the lack of identity etc. So those challenges are important they have a huge impact on family households individuals. I think it's also important to highlight maybe the presence of different civil documentations in northeastern northwest those from the fact authorities and those from government to Syria and how are they interacting with each other how much sometimes they increase risk security risks for example of individuals to use one or the other it's extremely confusing as well in the environment to know when you can or you should be using your government of Syria civil documentation or your the documentation that is being delivered by the de facto authorities how is it going to be accepted by the different actors and there I think it's also important to make sure that people are not being punished or sanctioned because they have civil documentation from for example the fact authorities in the northwest or because they have government of Syria civil documentation and then they are being identified as being affiliated to one of the other so that's what's our protection risk I think that have been raised but maybe maybe not as much as it should. In terms of HLP house and land and properties again we released two reports one on north east Syria one on north west Syria a few weeks ago and when we highlight the question or the issue of confiscation of property that hasn't been raised and is important I'll give a very slight example of one person that we have been talking to her name is Aisha she lives in Hasakish she has been living in Hasakish for 40 years at some point her husband had had a work opportunity for her to raqqa so they left their land they had a land they were farmers and they wanted to raqqa and they rented the land unfortunately the de facto authorities confiscated their lands and Aisha had to go through years and years of judicial procedure to be able to not even retrieve her land but negotiate with the de facto authorities to have a small piece of land next to her land that she will be able to use and unfortunately because she lost her husband and because her children are outside of Syria she was extremely vulnerable of course and she's too old as she says herself she's too old to fight and and and she decided to compromise because she doesn't have anything else to do and she couldn't do anything else so I think this is something that is really important and actually the numbers of I mean the issue around confiscation of property by de facto authorities is is rising in both north east and northwest Syria and it's something that is really important to to keep in mind and then maybe one last challenge that haven't been mentioned is the question around two diligence from humanitarian actors so I know it's part of our our process and our programs and we should be able to to to conduct proper two diligence and for those who work in the north east we all know the example of khashab camp which is actually established on a private property and there is an issue of two divisions around that camp and the authorization or not the absence of authorization from you to actually be able to use that camp as a camp this land as a as a camp and and so I think as humanitarian actors we need to also keep in mind that due diligence is important because it's part of our it should be part of our entire process all of us and we we need to be mindful of the fact that whatever our humanitarian response needs to be mindful of the fact that some of the areas where we work and the camps where we work might might have due divisions issues and HMP problems and then the it was really important to hear you say that we should be able to do more than just awareness and in the northwest I think one of the biggest barrier of course is also the status of the de facto authority than the question around counterterrorism legislation that does not allow actually humanitarian actors to do much in terms of legal assistance and access to justice there is only that much we can do and we have been in our sea for example have been looking into how to support families to be able to to to get civil documentation and our support will always be limited because for example we cannot provide we can provide cash protection for transportation but we cannot provide cash for administrative fees because that means that those and these administrative fees will be paid to an authority that is considered by as a counter as a terrorist organization and so these kind of challenges make them I mean the Syrian context is extremely complicated and maybe to step a little bit out of protection and look a bit and rather picture the funding needs are everywhere and all clusters and all sectors and that are somehow sadly competing with each other trying to show how much their needs are more important than the others and that's that's the sad reality of Syria after the use of war and I think this is the biggest challenge and today this is also looking into that and looking to increase humanitarian crisis and urgent emergencies outside of Syria like Sudan for example Ukraine etc we're looking into humanitarian funding let's keep global leaders extremely challenging and unfortunately in the coming years the funding will probably drop more than the increase and I think on the other hand the opportunity is that I think maybe there is more space now to look into the future to look into more early recovery the famous nexus between humanitarian response and the and the more longer term more durable solutions more resilience response where we could think into or look into bringing other donors at the table and I think the space for this conversation is now a little bit open there is an opportunity to have this conversation even though Syria being so politicized it's going to be extremely difficult to convince any and to shift from one one space to the other but I think I think there is an opportunity that was created a bit also unfortunately by by the earthquake and and by the current change of context at regional level there is an opportunity at least to open some debates and discuss some of the the elephants in the room at global level around Syria around the humanitarian architecture around access to East Syria all those conversations have a little bit of space I think could have a little bit of space and and and we need to see the opportunity as a humanitarian community and and and be able to to seize that opportunity and and try to to make space for us to to raise voices that our voices a little bit stronger and and be able to yeah to to do our best to provide more for the response and including for the protection side of it thank you thank you very much before we we close I wanted to check from your side Hosan if there are any other points that you want to mention in this discussion of challenges and actions our colleague Hosan is from IRC in northeast Syria are you there Hosan yes good evening hi we can hear you yeah yeah I will present my presentation by Arabic language we mentioned the challenges and risks that we didn't mention from my colleagues so if you are from other regions north of Syria the second point is that the HLP many of the activists are not able to go back to their original regions because their houses are destroyed or it is occupied by military militias and this is one of the challenges that is facing the issue of the surrounding area in north of Syria the second point is the issue of the children who are the children of the families of Suwadaj or the third country national there are thousands of these children with rights that they do not have a gender non-registered legally they do not have the legal personality and this is a very big risk in north Syria and it needs to interfere with the process of these problems the third point is a large percentage of the rule of law which is a general rule of law that does not continue in the regions north of Syria or regions north of Syria and especially the region north of Syria these are not going to be the Syrian agency for the political reasons that dates back to 1962 the next point is the return to the Kassri that is currently being held by the Syrians, either from Lebanon or from the areas that are being supported by the Turkish branch, the Syrians have been returned from Lebanon because they do not have the legal power or legal status and these are returning to the areas in north of Syria their homes are occupied by the same area that they were taken from Lebanon, unfortunately, the other point is the lack of movement in the camps there are camps that are closed, such as the Hul camp in Nazahin from all Syrians Syria, in addition to thousands of third country national families, they are not able to get out of the camps to rebuild or renovate the city, the next point is not recording or the organizations have the Syrian government and this prevents the legal representation of the legal representation of the refugees, so the legal representation of the legal representation of the legal representation of the legal representation The UNSCR had an experience of Niham with the Syrian Red Helales and had a legal community program so this step if we are able to work on it in the next with the Red Cross or any community of local people who are able to represent the law, we will address about half of the problem. As far as the law is concerned, in the north of Syria, the Syrian courts are in the security courts, and the HLP, the Ministry of State Affairs, and the Ministry of State Affairs, are in constant need of the local authorities. But the legal authority is not the same, it is the same for legal expertise, it is the same for laws, where the courts do not have the expertise, or even legal background, it can be a community or a community of sports, it is the same for the courts. As for the steps, we can reduce the problem, as I mentioned before, there are restrictions for organizations to work on, in the next phase, in order to represent the law. We can increase the number of cash for protection, and cash for legal, to help the beneficiaries, so that they can follow their steps, to build the ability of local authorities to deal with human rights, and the law of human rights, and the agreement of the council, and to encourage them to put the principles of human rights, in accordance with the laws, which they will present, to support local authorities, so that they can be free, and separate from the courts, so that we can encourage the beneficiaries to have the ability, so that they can register their civil rights, and at the same time, we can encourage the government, the natural law, to have the means, anyone can come back, whether Arab refugees or Syrian beneficiaries, there will be no means to have civil rights. Thank you very much. I know we have different requests for intervention on the chat. We are 10 minutes past the time of the side event, so if we agree, maybe we could just give the floor to the ones that have not raised their issues before, so Lutfi, you were there from the previous discussion, if you want to take the floor real quick, please go ahead. Hello. I will speak in Arabic. Go ahead. Lutfi, go ahead. Okay. I want to light up on two points. First of all, I want to thank you very much for this session, which was full of information. Lutfi, quickly, I will close. I will talk about the number of people or the number of people who have children, who are very important, who are very important, the result is that they are non-Syrian fathers, many other women in the war, or in the Syrian crisis, other women were fighters in the Syrian army, these women were married to Syrians, and after a while they were killed, or they left Syria and returned to their countries. These children were left, until now they are crazy, and if the father was present, then the father would never have any legal documents. These children, they came to us in full form, not even known in some cases, the names of the father, most of the time, in the country we went to, for people, for husbands, they don't know the names of their husbands, they know the name of their husbands, and their children are rich, only they leave it alone. The number of these people, that is, we can reach that number without much lack of children, has a specific condition, the results of many hurdles and can't reach the people particularly for these women, who are young or children who are married from other pivotal cults, their families and several wives is the child of the family or the child of the mother. This is the first point. The second point I want to talk about is the difference in the media between several areas. This is a very sensitive point, and it is important, especially if we are talking about the north, the west, and the east. So we are talking about two governments, two governments that are affected, and there are different ways. There may be changes from place to place, and therefore, these ways may not be recognized in this place. The last thing I want to talk about is the number of people who are now living in their homes, their homes, their lands, and their facilities in places that may be affected by other groups, and those who are not able to, as a result of many circumstances, and therefore, when there is any change in the community, even if they cannot register this community. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Lutfi. Fatima, one minute, really quickly. Thank you very much. Just I want to add something, maybe it's not mentioned during the Confederation, and what an addition for what Sarah, Bahia, and Hozan mentioned related for our legal identity, and that shall be. First, we need to make sure that, even if we have de facto authority, on the overseas of Syria, there is a different legal system. We lack for land registry department, which is not allowed for the people to access to get their documentation and to prove their ownership over their land, and which is totally difficult for improving their ownership or to enjoy their security of tenure. This is the first point. The second point, it's related for in doing and continue of confiscated the land from self-administration, from the people who's leaving on site, the camps, or if they want to establish any new formal or informal settlement, especially Bahia mentioned for Abu Khashab, there is Salisamin, Nayruzgam, and different area that's still a surprise plant, and that's need a lot of advocacy and work with the administration to respect actual rights. The second point, it's related for the law and the what is implemented by self-administration for given women equal rights for men on having inheritance share, what she's agreed about the men they are preferred to go for a Jewish court to claim their rights. At the same time, if there is any case as raised on Jewish court, the self-administration court, they directly or rejected any case that appointed or sued by female staff there, then they will not accept any claim from women. At the same time, they didn't have any enforcement department either to enforce the decision, the court decision from the US offered the land on self-administration area or even to give the people the right title for improving their identity. The first that should be the second one, it's related for civil documentation and legal identity and registered the vital evidence for the IDPs and refugees inside the camps. Even inside the camps, from camp to camp on north east of Syria we have different procedures. So for the people who's moving from camp to other they have to follow different procedures. Even though it is on the same area for north east of Syria. Maybe at the point that we have to mention for it as the national, the third national countries and the children on the whole and ex-camp. Those children who has to be moved when they reach 10 up to 12 years old be separated from their moms and they are putting on rehabilitation center and they didn't have their moms, they didn't have any information about their situation which is need a lot of work from ICRC to human rights actors to make sure that there is sharing information about their situation and to make sure that the family will not be separated. In addition for the Iraqi refugees who's have to register for a trip to the heath hall camp to Iraq. It's a complicated process from Iraqi community as well as from NISA authority side which is need to have more advocacy offer to facilitate such a process and to make sure even those people who didn't have any legal document they will have a chance to have the right to return back to their home and to decide about their travel solution and how they want to decide if they want to stay on the camps or to return back either to their country or to the third country to be settlement for their situation. Listen for the points that I want to highlight. Thank you. Thank you Fatma. Thank you very much. There are many issues that have like particularities for Northeast Northwest. However we identified three specific asks from this conversation that we have had the first one is linked to we need funding to guarantee that we will be able to create the capacity most of all at the community level to understand what rule of law is and also to prepare for the next stages. One of the key issues that we need to highlight is that there have been many changes at the political level in the recent months that could imply a political transition to somewhere. We don't know exactly where but the main concern is have we prepared communities to face any transitional issues that will come their way and we believe we haven't. So the initial ask is we need the capacity in place to help communities to understand what the rule of law means to be able to engage with the new changes that will come their way and this is the main reason why we are saying we need to shift from the humanitarian response that we have done for the past years and then moving to more structural related issues that will help communities to engage with rule of law but also to have active participation in the development of what could look as transition justice issues related to truth reparations, restitution and communities don't have those tools right now so we need the funding capacity for that. The second one is we need to engage and increase our advocacy and advocacy is more related to how we can help this transition justice to guarantee that communities will be at the center of it. Understanding as Theo mentioned before that there are some gaps in terms of obligations from the different actors when we talk about forced displacement the recognition is that there was a failure to protect civilians and that implies that there has to be in place some level of accountability and we need to work on advocacy related issues to guarantee that this process will be engaged with accountability but also that we will be able to explain or identify what would be the alternatives to guarantee that communities in north and northeast will be able to access this rule of law. And the third one is that we are asking also our partners to give us some level of flexibility we understand that in the past the red lines have been very strong however as Bahia was mentioning we do share the belief that unfortunately the earthquake created opportunities also in the understanding of donors of what's needed in northeast and northwest we take we need to take full advantage of those opportunities and that implies that we need help from our partners to be able to address in a different way the gaps that we are identifying right now not linked to individual provision of services but more into a community based approach when we can help communities to transition to whatever this this future is holding for them we believe it will imply a comprehensive understanding of an engagement with rule of law so we are asking also our partners to embark with us in this discussion on innovative ways to bring call protection response to communities on the ground understanding that yes there are still sensitiveness and red lines but we need to make the identification of where these red lines can be pushed a little further or maybe where we are stuck with the previous red lines and there is more space to work in some of these issues if you want to add some ask that I didn't mention please over to you so you can make the closure of the side event thank you so much everyone thank you so much and around I think you already highlighted what I had also trying to capture my notebook and then you highlighted very well I will use this opportunity to share the experiences and the expertise with us today I'm hoping that the gap that we have is more or less similar and we need a joint effort to address the gaps that we have and also this kind of political dynamism right the geopolitical dynamism that we are probably going to experience soon will be will be having an opportunity for us also to influence because the funding was like just going down if you see the protection sector in general like in North East Syria in all of Syria I think it's less than 10% funded comparing to the request that we have been requesting at the beginning of the year so it is very important to highlight that if we are not addressing those issues it's going to be very difficult and there is the livelihood and the living condition of the population is like 90% 80% of the population is going down below poverty density level so if we don't understand this situation and try to address those issues it's going to be worse and worse again so I'm not going to highlight anything because you already mentioned all of them so I would like to appreciate for the organizers as well it was really enriching for all of us and I'm just expecting from this joint effort a positive response especially for the funding which will have like a positive result for the communities who are counting on us thank you so much really appreciate for your time and contribution Thank you very much and thank you very much to all our finalists and the people that stayed with us in these 24 additional minutes have an amazing weekend thank you again bye