 And we are live. Welcome, welcome to the 10th discussion on sort of truth. We are on Phantom. I did read the correct book, even though I put Confessor on my TBR, because you guys very kindly let me know. Which was the book I was supposed to be reading. Yep. We've been doing this all year long. Yes, sort of truth. Yes. Hi, Jessica. Hi, Erza. Hi, Megan. Yeah, I mean, I feel like, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, we'll talk about it. Let's finish your reread. Yeah, it is dragged out. Hello, hello. So yeah, I think this is the might, this might be the first time we both give it the same rating. Oh, really? We've been like, we've been in general agreement before. But like, I don't like off by like a star. Yeah, we're usually like a little bit off. We're like, one of us will like, like hate it more or like it more or whatever. Yeah, no, this was two stars. Yeah, I gave it two stars. Yeah. Which like, like all my ratings is just a feeling. It's like, I, there were moments in it that I think I enjoyed. So therefore not one star. Yeah, basically. I didn't. And because I want to acknowledge that it's better than naked empire. So yes, we give it another star. Yes. It's a star for not being naked empire. Yes, naked empire is definitely the worst of the series. Hello. Yeah. Well, that's so maybe we'll think confessors the worst. We haven't read them all. It's true. So far. I feel like it would be hard to be worse than naked empire. Are your heart broken by us? Oh, no. Did you love it? Or you just saw our ratings. Well, we did just say we both gave it two stars. So. Is, but this sounds like it was like anticipated that. We would. Maybe. I don't know. Follow our good reads or something. Um, yeah. So. So. I have them. I have a lot of things to say about what this could have been. Very little to say about what it was. So if you would like to talk about what it was. I can see that. Uh, okay. So here's the thing. I realized, uh, early on reading this book as he was getting into some of his kind of info dumpy soap boxing. Um, I was like, mm, you know what the sounds like to me. Let me check when this book came out. And I think I'm right about my theory about this book. Uh, and I mentioned this to you. Yeah. So this book came out in 2006. And I'm pretty sure this book is about how Terry Goodkind thinks we should have handled Afghanistan. Which is horrifying. And I just like once I put that together, couldn't get past it in this case. Like sometimes I just don't care about what he's saying. But I think in this case with some of, um, Wow. Um, some of the stuff he's saying about like, well, like the ends justify the means like it's fine. Go like destroy villages and kill women and children because it's all worth it. I'm like, Oh. Well, so I remembered you saying that about it. Cause I hadn't finished reading it when you said you felt that that's what it was doing. And I mean, I don't know maybe, but if that is the case, if anything, he's describing the strategy of terrorists. Because. Yeah. Jigang and the juggernaut that is the order is America in size and scope and power. And then the only way to defeat a juggernaut like that is to go to their home and kill their women and children, which is what. Yeah. Right. But the thing is, is because of that, some of the ideas then were to use smaller teams of like elite forces to do similar things. Terrorists. No, no. American forces were doing stuff like that. I mean, certainly. Yeah. Anyway. So like there was that. Um, and I just think that this could have been a duality, which we'll talk. Sure. We'll talk about like, I just feel like it was really dragged out. The first part was really info dumpy. I felt. And I was like, I'm bored. And then, um, you know, I don't know. I just didn't have fun with it for the most part and all the stuff of like Kailin with Jigang. I'm like, oh, good. It did feel very repetitive. Yeah. So, um, I'm glad you, uh, I don't know, kind of give an overview of what's going on in this book because I feel like this book with like very small changes could be like a five or six star book for me. And it would be like the most perfect thing of all time. If, if what he was doing with this book and the intent of this book was to show us basically if Abercrombie had written this book, um, what Richard is saying and doing, he would basically be doing and saying, but it would be clear from the tone of the authorial voice that what we are witnessing is how some, how the best of intentions can lead to the direst and darkest of deeds and how like if you go too far down the path of like trying to defeat your enemy, you know, that's always the don't become what you were trying to defeat. Right. See, that could be good. Yes. Right. And so this book like as like, it's a very believable progression of thought and that would be like a very, you know, great. Instead of just saying, oh, you went dark as like a villain origin story, whatever, that like if we were watching the slow step, like death of a thousand cuts that takes you from a virtuous goal to doing acts of terrorism. Right. So like if that's because like again, Richard's mindset and his logic on this is sound in so far as like this seems like a pretty viable strategy when facing an undefeatable huge foe. Yeah. And so like if that's what this book was saying basically that like we're going to go in and see the, the internal side of like how you get from wanting to do good to killing women and children. And that's what we were watching happen. And it's not meant to be that that's a virtuous thing to do, but that we're watching someone who believes in trying to do the right thing could end up, you know, like Darth Vader's origin story. Where it's tragic. Where it's tragic. Yeah. Yeah. No 100%. But that is not this. Like he thinks that Richard is doing the right thing. I mean, you accept good kind is crazy. You can enjoy it. So I mean, there are some things where that is the case for me. Like this just wasn't it. The other thing about it is with the repetitive thing. Like did we seriously just put Rachel back in exactly her same starting point when we met her before. Well, I mean it wasn't just Rachel, like everything was basically back. Like we're repeating the same ground we already covered. We have night wisps. We have the book of counted shadows. We have the boxes of Ordon. We have Rachel with Violet. We have those are the ones come to mind. But yeah, it was a lot of stuff that I was like, okay, if I believed that he had truly planned this from the beginning, I'd be like, wow, we really planted those seeds early. But I know 99.9% sure that he did not. And so reading this, you're just like, he's literally going back to the beginning and be like, what did I say vaguely in those books? So that I could be like, I all along meant this to be secretly part of this long standing plan. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I don't know. I don't know. Well, and then we're like, I think, I think what you were saying about, about the idea of if Richard was, we were seeing him go down a dark path. I think that's what that was about. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. I don't, I don't know. I guess the real question is, you know, should we just, like, should pillars of creation just essentially be the end of the series, except you gang is just never, I mean, at least we'll probably get some kind of an inclusion with your gang next book. I'm hoping. He turns into the hero of the story. But Jessica says, yes, we did, but it was different. She's grown and she was scared, but she had confidence this time in the knowledge that if there was an opportunity to escape, she could do it. Yeah. Which I think in general, that's where again, this book could be brilliant where like the idea of echoing a previous event and saying, okay, but I've changed now. Like the thing that's different about this is me. And like really kind of play up those themes. But it felt, I mean, there was a little bit of her being different now, but it mostly felt like he didn't know what else to do. And it was like, well, this worked before. Yeah. Let's like go back to the well for. Yeah. Oh, yes. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Yeah. Like that's what this book should be. Yeah. But it's not. He's basically saying the road to heaven is paved with hell. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I think. I don't know. I think we'll really reset Katelyn for the third time. Yeah. Yeah. I also just feel like the later books in this series have done Katelyn a disservice of what we've seen from her in the past. And it's just, it's less. Well, and in, what was the first one called chainfire? We did find it interesting, all the like, it's a wonderful life ism of like, all their lives are different without Katelyn. And like this book, like it was kind of like, well, we established that in the first one. So we can move on from that. I wish this had continued the theme of like, let's see all the ways that still more things are different because Katelyn's not there. And not because like, I guess that could get old. It's like, we would just feel repetitive. But I mean in new and fresh ways that like, because we began to scratch, we began to have the realization that it's not just that they've forgotten her, but that they are now very different people because they have forgotten her. So we've kind of got that. And then we just like didn't further. It was like, oh, okay, we've learned that. But now we've, we're doing something else. And it's like, but there would be so much more, so many more incremental revelations. The more you talk to these people or where Richard would begin to see like, my God, they really are so different because they don't, they never knew Katelyn. And like that to really see how deep that goes. Yeah. Whereas I feel like instead, we're almost getting a reversal of what happened. I am excited to see if the boxes of ordinar important in the setup does pay off. Interesting. I was just going to say, I feel like in some ways what we're getting is a reversal of book one where in, where initially we had Richard being the one who was being captured and like sexually assaulted and treated poorly. And now it's Katelyn, who's the one who's been kidnapped and, you know, and he's trying to get back to her as a whatever it's called player. I think the biggest, well, it's not the, it's a big problem is that Richard is positioned by these books as being so infallible and as the mouthpiece of the author, which is what makes anything and everything in these books. Like these books wouldn't be that troubling. They would just be interesting. Right. If like, if we didn't feel like Richard was such a mouthpiece for what you're supposed to think. Right. And like, in like stone of tears and stuff, like Richard was more likely to say things that he later get corrected on and be like, no, you were wrong about that. But that has like long stopped being a trend. Like he has been infallible, infallible in the universe of these books for a very long time now. So you can't even enjoy the like, oh, he's gone too far with his ideas and then the narrative will pull him back or he's not going far enough with his ideas and the narrative will push him forward. So like now he's just, which is like honestly, like aside from me being like, I don't agree that what he's saying is just in good, but aside from that, it's just boring to read about a character that's always right. According to the narrative, like it's just much more interesting to watch a character be wrong and struggle with that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I see that. Yeah. I mean, I am excited to see if. Yeah, we'll see. I mean, yeah, like I'm curious to see what, what the payoff with the way that these three are set up kind of as a trilogy, which has taught something he's really done before. He's all been kind of standalone installments. So it is kind of interesting to see him. For the first time, basically do a trilogy kind of. Yeah. Where the story is not contained to one, to one book. Yeah. The pacing of this book really didn't work for me though. But. Yeah. I'm curious. I am curious to see what the payoff ends up being next month. But. Yeah. Richard became fall on the side. I never looked back. Yeah. That is how it feels. Well, I just, I don't know how much of it is like a good kinds own sort of personal life over the course of writing these books. Who knows? No, I mean, every author is telegon themselves with the books they write. That's, that's inescapable. Yeah. Books are such a personal thing to write. But, I also, this in this book, right, the Jebra gives her long, long, long, long story about where she was and what happened to her. Maybe what happened? No, no, because Nikki, excuse me, Shoda rescues Jebra and brings her to Richard and Jebra is like, here's what happened to me. And it was awful. Yeah. And this irritated me so much. Um, because it was like unnecessarily long and like, just loves like torture porn at this point. And you're like, okay, I get it. But also I just, as a character driven reader, characters behaving in ways that are not believable for the characters always irritates me. And like a person who's gone through severe trauma is, is like very unlikely to want to dwell on it and very unlikely to want to elaborate on it. Like you have to drag it out of them because they don't want to think about it. They don't want to be there again. And like people who, for instance, have like to have to be witnesses like on the stand and have to like share something traumatic that happened to them. Like avoid the question and like speed their weight as few words as possible to explain something that happened to them because like, they have to say it because this is required of them, but they really don't want to. Um, and so to have these characters just like going on and on and being like, sorry, I haven't been detailed enough. Let me get even more detailed about this horribly traumatic thing that happened to me. I'm just like, I don't believe you went through trauma because of how much you're just like, like that to me, I read that and I'm like, if this was a better book and that a character was doing this, I would take it that I can assume that this character is lying because only a liar would be like, let me impress upon you how awful this was and put more details on it and really, really just exaggerate it so that you really think it's bad. I'd be like, oh, you, this is, you're lying. There's no way this is true. If all this happened to you, there's no way you would be going on and on and on and on about it. But I know that he's not, she's not lying that Terry good kind of thinks this is good writing where she's going to talk about all of her trauma. And I'm just like, no. Yeah. So this does remind me of one thing that I thought was kind of interesting in this book with, with Shota that I have a question about. I'm wondering if we're being set up for the idea. Yes, the new torture was back. I wonder if we're being set up for the idea that she doesn't really see the future. She just has access to information. She just doesn't have the information that people have gathered because it seems like every time she's like suddenly realized something, we then find out that somebody else at the same time had found that information, like doing research or something like that. So it's like, makes me wonder, like, does Shota not actually see the future? Does she actually just like get insight into things other people are discovering? I think she just, she knows whatever Terry Goodkind needs the plot for her to know. Maybe. You know, like she, like she is plot convenience embodied. She shows up and is like, I know a secret thing that is going to happen in the future. And I'm going to tell you about it. And they're like, oh, well, since you know this, can you tell me? No, I'm sorry. The one detail I don't know is the most important detail, which you're going to have to go on a quest now to find. My knowledge is hazy just right, right there in this one specific detail. Off you go. I have a story now. I don't know. I'm curious though, because there were like a couple different times in this book where I feel like he was maybe intentionally showing that where it's like Shota says a thing. Sort of truth Google. Sort of truth Wikipedia. But like Shota says a thing and then he meets another, Richard meets another character who's like, oh, I just learned this thing from this, like research I did or something like that. Like it happens a couple of times in this book, which just, it makes me wonder. Yeah. As soon as the twisted nips happened in this book, I was like, of course we did that. Yeah. I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. I don't know too. Like the whole thing with, if you want answers to that, you have to get to Children of Dahara. Oh no. I also don't like that we're doing like a, a love triangle essentially where Nikki's in love with Richard. And it's like, is she? Yeah. I guess kind of. She thinks to herself that like it'd be easier to bear if she could remember Kalen and then she could at least comfort herself with the knowledge that Kalen really is all that awesome sauce. But she doesn't know Kalen. So she just hopes that she is that awesome sauce. Yeah. That's kind of annoying. I mean, I feel like it's an opportunity for him to sort of like yet again have all the women into Richard without sacrificing the one true love, you know. And then Julian being like, I saw Richard, he was with this really beautiful woman and Kalen's like, of course he was with a beautiful woman and what, why, why did I think he wouldn't be with someone like that? And Jillian's like, she wasn't beautiful like you. No one's as beautiful as you. You're just the, there's like, there's something about you. There was the same something about Richard. I can't quite, I don't know. It has a certain Genese Qua about you and Richard. I'm just observing it. I just met him for two seconds and I don't know you, but you have this certain thing. Oh my gosh. I love how people are like, thanks to the Nicky's been in love with Richard. I see it's interesting because I didn't take it as her being in love with him. I took it more as like, I mean, maybe in these books. Yeah. But like in earlier books, I took it more as her just appreciating that he, like appreciating that he helped her grow and see past where she had been. I don't know. I felt she loved him similarly to Hal Cara and Virginia. Yeah, exactly. That's how I felt too. I just, and I also just think that like Nicky is too interesting of a character for Richard. Um, yeah. I want more legit Kailin because I feel like it's been a while since we've had, you know, the Kailin who rode naked into battle with her body painted white. You know what I mean? I mean, it's like, I just, it's like, where is that Kailin? I mean, even like initial meeting Kailin, she's like running away from a quad all by herself and like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Condar. What happened to that? Right. What's the more of that? Well, because she can't remember who she is. No, I know. Which is kind of annoying. I'm just saying she doesn't have to be naked on a horse to be badass. Just the Condar. That's true. Yeah. I'm just, I don't know. I'm kind of annoyed with like. Everyone keeps saying everyone who's read it says. All right. All right. I'm hyped. I hope it does pay off. We'll see. I guess it is a first time experience to have good kind books, not have the payoff in the book towards a coming thing. So like, I'm interested to see him do a three book arc and pay it off. Yep. We'll see. Um. Good kind was still writing interesting characters. Yeah. I have been like increasing we less impressed as we've gotten farther. Cause I love the way it feels less and less like he's writing even a story, you know, like, cause like Richard also was a pretty interesting character. Yeah. In stone of tears. Yeah. He feels just more of a caricature than he used to be. He's just a mouthpiece for whatever point. Terry Goodgun wants to make. And then also occasionally remembers that he's desperately painfully obsessively in love with Kaylin to the point where I'm like, this isn't romantic. This is unhealthy. The way you two are like, what is life without you? And I'm just like, okay. Sure. Yeah. I don't know. I think it's. I don't know. It's it is also weird to me. And feels like a plot convenience. But like. Kaylin is assaulted, but not like. Fully. Rape. Because Jigae is like, no, I won't. I mean, we get though. I mean, we get though. I mean, we get though. I mean, we get though. I mean, we get though. I mean, we get though. I mean, we get though. I mean, we get though. I mean, we get though. The Bond villain style confession of motivations, but pre essay. Or he's like, no, I want you to actually know who you are and what's happening to before I do it. But don't make. Don't think this gets you up. Which is kind of. I'm like, would he do that? Like, or would he just do it and then do it again? When you know, like, I don't, I don't know. Just doing it. And then at some point you'll remember and they'll be like, ah, That was disturbing though. I mean, this book is dramatic enough to be an opera. But that's the thing. Like, I don't know. I don't know if it's the thing, but like, I wish that. That Richard and all these characters were allowed to be wrong. And they used to be allowed to be wrong. Yeah. But now they're just all right compared to the evilness that is Jigang and the cartoonishness of that evil is also very because like Jigang also was a somewhat more interesting when he was first introduced as a villain. I remember being quite impressed with Jigang as a villain because I hadn't seen that before. The like the power that he has and the way that he is like this physical big brute who's also a thinker. There's just like, there's just things about him that made him a more interesting compelling antagonist. But at this point, like I'm so tired of how the order is just an army where every like apparently like the idea that there exist millions and millions and millions of men that just need to be nudged in the right direction and they're going to go around raping and pillaging like and have zero issue with that. I just maybe this is naive of me. But when I say not all men, I like to think not most. I mean, I think not all. I don't know if it's not most like being online. I don't know that I do think it's not a big difference between talking a big game online and actually going around and committing the atrocities that every single person in this millions and millions and millions army that he's endlessly supplied with it's all willing and only interested and only motivated by SA. And the way that that's always the threat every single time it's like, I'll capture you and I'll toss you to my men and you know what they all love to do? They all also enjoy hurting women. Everyone's into that. Every single of the millions of men in my army are into hurting women and I'm just like, are they? I mean, probably not all of them, but unfortunately like we have seen through history that like it is not uncommon that men in the military do things like that. Oh, I don't disagree about that. But it just the way it's written, it makes it sound like every single one of them is like a sociopath. Right. And I'm just like, no. It's a little. I mean, it's over the top for sure. But I'm especially because it really clashes with like what they supposedly believe they're fighting for because like a war of ideas is a compelling story. And the idea that this side believes in like a flawed ideology that, that, you know, this world is temporary and you know, nothing means anything and communism, et cetera. We know Terry hates it. But that does not mean that you become a sociopathic rapist, pillages and like every single one who's raised in the ideology of the order that that's what that equates to. Like it just, I don't know what point you're trying to make to a good kind. Like that is not what that ideology immediately then transition translates into as a mindset. I mean, I think that's what he thinks. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I just like, well, that could be an interesting book, you know, and like, and you can definitely have war crimes. That's a very, you know, I'm not saying you can't have war crimes. Yeah. I mean, there's a real fit, but yeah, it is very over the top, which I mean, a lot of things are in this book to be fair. I, this is interesting. Someone thinks he's gangist Kong as an interest inspiration for the order. Very possibly. Are we talking spoilers yet? I guess. Yeah. I mean, is there anything to spoil? Like, I don't, I feel like I don't know. I don't know that there are spoilers in this book. Well, I guess the answer to that is yes, but we haven't said anything, particularly spoilery. Yeah. But Richard, convenient. He also ruined one of my remaining favorite ish characters, the Slif. I was like, oh, she is part of this secret plan of testing you with a, I was like, why are you ruining the Slif? Yeah. The Slif was cool. Yeah. The Slif was like disembodied and didn't operate on any kind of logic. So disappointed. Yeah. I guess, I mean, I guess what I'm trying to say to be clear to anyone that like thinks I'm being naive, like I don't think that it's unlikely that an army would go around and commit atrocities. It's just the way it's written in this book. It's just so exaggerated and over the top that every single person isn't just going to take advantage of a woman when the opportunity presents itself that they are all like they get off on pain. They're all getting off on torture that like that every single one of them is like a sadist. Right. Like I'm just like, I don't think there are millions and millions that are raised in communism and because they were raised in communism are sadists. Like I just, that's, that's, what? Yeah. I don't want to just don't buy it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love the statue that Richard carved. Kaylin was so important to Kaylin even though she didn't know why. Yeah. I don't dislike that. Yeah. I think sexual violence is perfectly emblematic of evil in general, especially towards women, which is true, but he just attaches to every idea. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do also think it's true that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, but I, I do also think that it's true that it can be more prevalent in certain situations where that's sort of like the culture, if that makes sense. You know what I mean? But he's like, again, it's like the idea that the, I mean, I mean, you're not wrong. Like in this, it's, oh, it's way. It's also the like causal, causal nature of like communism means sadism. Right. I'm just like, you can be against communism, whatever. Like write a book where it's like showing us how communism is a bad idea. Fine. Yeah. But that doesn't mean like the only way they'll understand that communism is bad because if I make them all sadists, I just, because it's also like I've been saying, it's boring that like every single time, like there's an evil character, you know how we know they're evil? There's sadists. Like that's, it's just like, there's a lot of kinds of evil in the world that have nothing to do with sexual violence. Like sexual violence is definitely a evil in the world and certainly go feel free to depict it in your book as a reality of like a war. Right. Because it is the reality of war. Yeah. But like, because it's not, it's not just, you know, our means and it's not just your one villain. It's every single time there's a new villain and every single character, every single time. I'm just like, Accurate. You could have an antagonist. It's not into that at all. Yeah. This is such an interesting conversation happening right now. I, I heard you're so curious. Yeah. This is, and this is the thing is like, I don't know how much of it, because like a lot of stuff comes out about things in wartime situations. And I feel like sometimes it's people who are bystanders who don't do anything and sometimes it's the people actually like perpetuating stuff. I mean, basically like, I would say like, you know, on my, my extensive knowledge of never having gone to war myself, but like such situations they create opportunity and people who have these inclinations have these proclivities will seize that opportunity. And then other people who maybe aren't necessarily like super likely to do something like that might again, if they have any leanings in that direction, because of peer pressure, you like, okay, actually, maybe I will too. And then there's people that are too cowardly to do anything about it. So then there's like a third removal of like, they're not participating, but they're not going to do anything about it. And then there's the people who are like, not only do I think that I'm not going to participate, I'm going to do something about it, but it's top to this. So like, there are shades of evil and like the entirety of J. Yang's army being composed entirely of the level one of evil that they're all excited to do it immediately going to do it. All they're interested in doing is that I'm just like, I don't think there are millions and millions and millions like constantly replaceable millions that are all thinking this way. I mean, I think it's a lot of fear mongering, which is what people have always done with things that they don't understand. Yes. Yes. Yeah, I mean, well, like, exactly. It's not like we think that all people or even all people in the military would do stuff like that. That's not even it. It's more just like it does seem like it. Well, it just makes sense, right? Like you put people in places where they're experiencing a lot of violent trauma. Like it makes sense that it could increase the incidences of other kinds of violence more than outside of it. Like not everybody not always certainly, but like it makes sense. Again, like there's a way of depicting an army going around and frequently committing atrocities, which is not unfortunately not super unlikely given this invading army with somebody at the head of that army who's like pretty immoral. But again, like, yeah. No, not like that. The way you depicted it is not realistic. Well, like sending Katelyn out like walk around naked and if anyone sees you, they're going to attack you. From the beginning, like all the weapons through their lips and like it's just it also, I don't know, it like cheapens the actual horror of that when it's just like all the time in these books where it doesn't feel I mean, okay, it does feel evil. I'm not going to say it doesn't, but like, yeah. I just feel like the way he depicts it is so cartoonish, you know. Yeah. Mustache twirling essay. Yeah. And I guess in a non sort of truth context, it's like a good reason to be better at normalizing mental health services for people in the military with what they go through. Not just mercenaries, there's there's or it's the well, I've said I complained before like not related to their behavior just simply the sheer numbers in Jigang's army is also laughable where you're just like this constantly like this, this force of millions and millions and millions and millions, it's unending and it's just like, I can't take that seriously like, yeah, like a huge army, yes, with a lot of resources, sure, but the way it's described it's just so like, absurd the numbers and then how every single member of this unending eternal army is all equally monstrous and it's just it's, I can't take it seriously. Yep. I mean, apparently I mean, I guess I'm glad that Richard is never wavered on his position on that side of things. We can we always rely on Richard to feel that that is wrong. True. Yeah. That's pretty good about it. This is where all when I got to the part where Richard is starting to suggest guerrilla war tactics and Richard is like, you know, we can't face an army like this head on and I was like, so far so good. I agree. You can't face an army like this head on. This is good military strategy. Well done. Okay, I'm excited to see where this goes. And then he's like, what we need to do is like kill women and children. And I'm like, no, you need to kill their supply lines. Yes. Yes. Well, I think though it's like the idea is like psychological warfare. We're going to win hearts and minds or we're going to like freak them out. This is why what Terry Goodkind has written for this is like, I mean, he can't have it both ways. Either they're soulless, evil men that don't care about doing harm to anyone or they're men who are misguided fighting for a bad cause and they're going to care that the women and children at home are going to be dying. But they can't be sadists that care about nothing and care about no one and then be like, you know how we defeat them is we kill their women and children and suddenly they'll be like, oh no, my dearest beloved that I left home while I went to rape and pillage my way across all of the Midlands has been killed in my absence. Oh, calamity. This army that you've described to me will give zero shit about your women and children. Well, I mean, I think that the part that makes more sense maybe is the like public killing of people who are preaching their ideas like that, okay? But again, like the way this army they don't seem to like be zealots that are devoted to an idea. That's not really what they're there for. They're there to pillage. Yeah. So like, what are they going to care about that? The women and children at home who have been indoctrinated into these ideas, they'll care. True story. There's so many things in here that individually like they could work and you could write an interesting story about that and lots of, you know, gray areas in terms of war and total war, etc. And guerrilla warfare is a essentially what Kaelin did when she did the, you know, we don't have the numbers but we can scare them, we can get their supplies, we can, you know, death of a thousand cuts, we can get them down. And like that's a very valid strategy and that's really all Richard had to do but we had to make a point about how it's just to do anything at everything and I'm like okay, but also maybe do the smart thing which is kill their supply chains with a huge army like that. Like that's what'll get them. Yeah. This is interesting. Yes, yes. I mean, I feel like that's the thing is there probably would be a lot of foraging of like taking things from the towns that they're in or... I mean, yeah, they do do that but they quickly run out because this force is so stupidly gargantuan that they immediately run through the food there and like this has like in history been like a pain point for huge armed forces when they go too far and are too far away from supplies and start dying from not from being killed but from not having the food to feed their army. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. What did you think? I think we got a question about this earlier but Richard joining the team for the Jalaw. It felt contrived. You know what it made me think of? Makes me think of a little bit of a Gladiator movie. I love Gladiator, so please explain. Just because like it feels a little similar of like trying to like survive and like get find a way to like get revenge by competing in a tournament to get the attention of like the leader of something. I don't know. Yeah. I guess I just didn't think of that because I don't know it feels less contrived in a good movie like Gladiator because it's just the way that it happens where like you know what it made me think of? I swear to God this is what made me think of as soon as I got to that part I was like oh so this is like Harry Potter being chosen as the seeker for the Gryffindor Quidditch team because McGonagall was like hey I just saw you catch that little ball but I got a place for you on my team. This guy was like hey you just dodged a bunch of people to get through I think you should go on my team. Like that was the vibe. Yeah I mean yes well in the moment where like he like Kaelin sees him passing by at the end of the book. Which like to be completely honest as like a thing I genuinely really like in stories and there's it seldom done well is when two people that care about each other love each other whatever are separated for some reason and then for whatever reason they've been separated they maybe need to have like taken on different identity or they're somewhere in a crowd or they're currently doing I don't know but where they like spot each other in a situation where they can't talk to each other but they realize that that's the other person there like I love that as a concept I don't know if that is a trope and if it is what you would call a trope but like in theory that's the kind of thing I love and this is a perfect setup for something like that except that she can't remember who she is so it ruins the whole thing yeah it's annoying yeah it could have been a great moment I think I like get like currently I would probably just not read past a certain point in the series in the future if that makes sense I don't know like I have it like Naked Empire was terrible and so far I'm just kind of like I don't know we'll see what the finale does I feel like my favorite book I've learned now having read it three times is Tone of Tears and I see myself in the future just rereading Tone of Tears and not not Wizards First Rule and not anything after it just Tone of Tears it is the best arguably the best or one of the best books in the series I feel like at the end of this we're gonna have to like rank all of the books so based on what I just said I would tell them to stop at Tone of Tears I mean I don't know that I I mean I tell somebody to stop like I do think Tone of Tears is like one of the highlights I assume truly the best no questions asked I assume you mean Tone of Tears and if you don't mean that I'm just gonna think that you mean that and it will make me happy because like also what I think about like when I generally like make comments about praising Terry Goodkind or about these books most of the things I'm thinking of are from Tone of Tears and it's also the one that like aside from like oh we handled this better and oh he did this better and oh this was a concept I just feel the most pure escapism reading Tone of Tears like being in the Palace of the Prophet it's so enjoyable yeah I mean Caitlin's part isn't as fun that's far I don't feel particularly escapist about I'm like oh god this is so depressing I mean it's like Harry Potter in Hogwarts I'm like I'm excited to be here excited to be hanging out yeah I mean I feel like the last book that I had a really good time with is Faith of the Fallen Pillars of Creation yeah like I liked that one Pillars of Creation I felt met about and I hated Naked Empires so I kind of feel like Faith of the Fallen might be my sort of end point is Blood of the Flood the one that ends with their wedding? I don't remember that or Tone of Tears it might be Tone of Tears I don't think no maybe I also think Temple of the Winds when you were a kid yeah I wish too it's pretty early that's like part way through Wizard's Verge rule you gotta stop also yes every time I read Tone of Tears 100% I'm like I remember Palace of the Provence being the entirety of the book and then I read it and I'm like how are we not at the Palace of the Provence it takes a while yeah okay so it is Temple of the Winds that sounds right yeah so far I mean I think that's kind of how I'm feeling Faith of the like I actually payoff is good enough in the next book I might be like you know what there's a lot of crap so you gotta wade through but boy is there a great payoff it's just like skim it right you just skip there yeah we'll see yes also agree honestly I wish all of Tone of Tears was just at the Palace of the Provence I mean I like his journey there with Verna because I love him and Verna together like um hating each other love that and then getting to the Palace of the Provence where Verna is actually kind of on Richard's side and it's kind of like learned some of his spunky ways I love it Tone of Tears is like really good it's really good whatever he was whatever Terry was doing in his life he was right when he wrote Tone of Tears yep and Richard is the right amount of like obstinate and ultimately right but also been pretty wrong about stuff to make him a compelling and interesting character to read about Kaylin and him are apart which is ideal for these books because Kaylin is off doing interesting things like yeah it's good it's a good one and Verna I love Verna and Warren are in it a whole bunch and we get to meet Nathan and Grat oh my god this has just become a fan fan grilling over a stone of tears yeah it's good I mean I feel like Tumble of the Winds just like has to be experienced yeah it's true Soul of the Fire I probably would skip Soul of the Fire if I'm being honest basically say hey chimes happen move on yeah I'd probably skip Soul of the Fire I didn't like it but I liked Faith of the Fire you know how to pretend they loved it I mean Warren is in Stone of Tears yeah maybe I don't know it's funny yeah well we'll see I miss liking Richard I liked Richard I know I've not liked him for a few books now and it's partly that I disagree with the stuff he's saying but it's mostly that he's boring now yeah because I didn't always agree with him before even when he was right according to the book I liked him as a character now which is annoying when everybody else still loves him I know every time they're like well do you trust Richard with your life I'm gonna be like hell no why do we trust him to be the leader of everything all the time oh but I love someone's like I'm sorry to ruin your hope but overall the book is pretty good okay okay but insane is intriguing I decided to say insane well he said nothing too insane so oh I read it wrong alright well we'll see we'll see how it goes Richard is never wrong according to the book I'm so mad that he killed off Warren for no conceivable reason I know can't you let other people be happy like you protect Richard and Galen sort of but like forget even trying to be like he could have died but I wish it had been like for a reason because he really just died like and like that can be compelling in a more realistic book where like sometimes people just die and it's not epic sometimes like it's just this is not Abercrombie right which is what I'm saying so I'm like if and even then I would say that was a better death because it served a narrative purpose of making that point right but his death wasn't making that point yeah it's not what he was doing I was just I am glad I'm still very happy about Nathan he's the only character I feel like I still like so in this book when he becomes Lord Rawl I was like hell yeah that's a Lord Rawl I can stand yeah and when he's like now taken on the mantle of Lord Rawl and he's like I need an attendant I guess you'll do and like kind of like enjoying the moment I was like yes okay I have some joy in this book and it is 100% just Nathan I do like Nathan I'm bummed to like like Zed was one of my favorite characters and he's kind of ruined the last couple books too ship ship of magic is so good yes enjoy it's so good see that's a book where we have characters who we are in their heads and they do dark things and they and make sense to them why they're doing it it's interesting to follow yep we could have done that with sort of truth we were nearly there the trouble is the author agrees whoops that's a problem yep precious you know you could your dad would probably be thrilled maybe I mean listen like the first especially stone of tears you probably just didn't know how to write nice characters anymore he didn't know how to write nice characters anymore he's like why aren't warrens really nice I guess it's true he probably doesn't know how to do like nice nerdy characters which is warren he clearly did it once upon a time because warren was great I love warren and I'm honestly not even that invested I didn't super love verna and warren together they just didn't seem like a couple to me but whatever like I liked both of them and like I say for a lot of books where like I don't like the love interest but I like the character that is in love with that person and I'm like if this is what makes you happy you deserve whatever makes you happy so I'm like I don't get you guys as a couple but if this makes you happy I'm happy for you yeah Priscilla same that is same I will never not be mad that dreffin was evil he could have been a great addition to the team imagine if in this book right now dreffin was around and was like a voice of reason to Richard be like buddy this is so funny look at this quote naked empire is terrible it is the worst like we have pushed past it but it yeah I mean I think that was the naked empire was terrible when I first read these books that's where I stopped because I didn't realize I guess that was why but like now having read it I was like I'm not this because like for other books before that like soul of the fire and some others I was like but I kept going when I got the itch again never got the itch again after naked empire I was like I'm good I'm good yeah yeah yeah Jessica naked empire is why I rated the next book so high like I don't know that it really deserve four stars but in comparison it felt I think I gave it three stars yeah I mean realistically that's probably what I might as we said in the beginning I gave phantom two and what whole star was for not being empire empire is bad I just feel like there's also so we've talked a lot about Richard and about the army but I also feel like because we talked about too about how it would have been better in Chainfire to not show Kaelin's perspective at all and like if this where's a trilogy which it is if we and Richard coming to the realization that this is what's going on blah blah blah blah it was Richard's book the first book fine no Kaelin and then if phantom had been all Kaelin yeah there's so many like I feel like he just doesn't want to do it because like there was there's so much more interesting to do with a character that has had their memory stripped away from them and is coming to realize things or the kind of conclusions that she could come to they probably wouldn't be the right ones and it would be so interesting to see what she would piece together about her life or who she thought she was based on what she hears or what she feels or whatever could be so interesting and Kaelin like amnesiac Kaelin is just boring boring and I don't care about her getting back together again honestly their love is so toxic at this point that I'm like I hope one of them dies and they have to figure out how to live with it and also I was thinking about this the way Richard is like oh if I could just hold her and just see her because like it's so painful that she's gone like I know that everyone forgot her which is like you know bad but like it's not been that long since he last saw her like he was without her for much longer when he was at the Palace of the Prophet so the way he's like acting like it's been like decades since he's seen her I'm just like funny like I know that you're worried but the way that you're like I haven't seen her in so long I'm like but Leanna they weren't married when he was at the Palace of the Prophet so now she's his wife I just and it's just so over the top it's the same as like the Jebra being like I suffered so much let me tell you how much like the way these two are like well not Kaylyn because she can't remember but even then she finds a way to pine for Richard even though she can't remember Richard where it's just like I don't know why I just like feel a kind of way when people mention Richard yeah he doesn't know who I am but there's just something I miss something I hope I'm just like oh my god even you pine when you don't even remember him and the way Richard is like if I could only hold her if I could only see her if I could only touch her if I could only be with her and I'm just like get it this is not doing it for me like he thought about her last when he was in Stone of Tears Jessica see that makes all the difference I get it I'm guessing the thumb being married yeah I don't know she is she is not as compelling as I would like her to be so we'll see we'll see and Zed's not as funny no Zed's annoying the only I said the only character still likes Nathan yeah and then I like Chase still he's hardly in it but I like that his reaction to Rachel is like oh well you gotta grow your hair out if you're gonna live with me like yes chase and Nathan just let's do a spin-off about those to having a road trip that would be fantastic that would be entertaining Rachel can come with them I bet Nathan would be funny with Rachel too yeah what happened to Jensen where is Jensen in all of this exactly she's uh she's doing other stuff off screen yes I mean we said that too after Fellows of Creation how bad Naked Empire was it like the story Richard is so boring now and you really there's nowhere to go after you've made him reach his final form so start telling other stories like and when Richard can still be in it around because he is Lord Rawl right but yeah yep like if Dreffen was still alive and then we'd have a spin-off about Dreffen like coming into his own instead of just being the brother of the Lord Rawl or if he really was seeding something we could have Dreffen could have been a mastermind who like made it seem like somebody else was the killer when really it was him and then slowly over several books we find out that he really was the killer no no I want Richard to have a brother well can't always have what we want I mean and again do you know how we know Dreffen's a villain because he's a sadist yeah surprise of course I mean he's kind of that's kind of how they did one of the artists does kind of draw Richard that where he's got like the dark hair and dark beard and I'm like who is this looks like Pavarotti not Richard Rawl I mean it would have been better great your your long game arch villain would have been more interesting than what we got but ultimately I mostly want Dreffen to be a good guy right Richard had three brothers yeah I guess he did well he did have like other half brothers well he had Oba and Dreffen I thought there was another one I thought there was another one who also died I don't remember oh oh no no yep I think there was another one though I believe y'all but I only remember Dreffen and Oba we're both sadists I mean I guess that one at least makes a little more sense because not only are they villains but they are the sons of dark and Rawl so you can say it's like inherited oh his other brother, his mother yeah Cypher's son well I guess half brother they were all his half brother oh yeah good point I guess I confused it with the show because in the show that's not his real mother so that's not his real brother at all I'm like in the books in the books it is later that you find out that that woman is actually Zed's daughter yeah they don't make that clear earlier yep I forgot about him, Michael he was kind of the worst all of his brothers are terrible I mean Michael was clearly the least of it yep yep well we've talked about it for an hour mostly vented for an hour yeah dark and Rawl was his brother in the show yeah which is weird well we'll see if a confessor lives up to we'll get a payoff at least this was such a middle book yeah it definitely was and we did get in a pretty okay this wasn't good but at the end Nikki is like putting the box of Ordon into play dun dun dun like that was a pretty good hook I guess mm-hmm so any predictions I don't know Richard will become not just the master of Dahara but the master of the universe thanks to the boxes of Ordon and he will finally put the world to rights the way that the true order of things should be the way Terry Goodkind probably and there will be heaven on earth Kaelin will get her memory back even though we got Zed talking about how you can't just replace someone's memories they're gone for good because of reasons but because of other reasons you'll be able to get her memories back Richard's always coming by and saying just because you haven't thought of a way doesn't mean there isn't a way there is no way mystical chosen oneness I think Jigeng is going to die in some horrifying way that will seem like just revenge maybe there will be torture there will probably be some torture from other females though will it be a torture along the way I suspect that Kaelin will be saved from being essayed at the last possible moments because we can't you know have that happen to Richard's wife I feel like that's why they had him pause honestly I did it to feel horrifying but not totally go there because she's Kaelin Michael's mom isn't the same as Richard's mom really because I think wasn't Cypher, didn't he his wife died and that's why he took in Richard and his mom maybe we'll see Zed came to her after she was raped when she married George and Michael's older I knew it alright that's why Michael wasn't a sadist he's not actually a blood relation there you go obviously Richard will do it obviously maybe Kaelin or maybe no it's going to be either Richard or Kaelin or together perhaps or they'll like well I think maybe they'll like pass down a judgment and give him over to people that they think deserve to get their retribution on him that's my theory maybe I think it'll be some kind of magical nonsense where he gets sucked into the underworld and tortured by the keeper of religion that could also happen go join Dark and Raw down there we'll see I want to see Gratch again I want to see Scarlet again I want to see Addie again and just go back and re-read Stone of Tears heck I'm as Dark and Raw he was more fun as a villain I'm so tired of the gang thank you Nora for solving the Michael brother thing you guys were gaslighting me I knew it Priscilla I keep having the same thought I'm worried I mean they've said multiple times that these people don't remember dragons existing and they're like are they right or are they really a dragon well because he said he thinks that the lack of magic affected magical creatures first are we going to end this series where magic does go away for permanent oh that would be sad would it especially because I don't trust Richard with magic he should not be all powerful I agree with that that shows in one I mean I think what's his name that wizard with the bee that all this up played that 4D chess across the millennia you know Magda Saris's husband the one that went to the temple of the winds yes I don't remember I'm just like I don't think Richard was what you were picturing no this is not what she ordered I know Priscilla I know I've been worried about the dragons too what about Gratch and his young women and Gratch yes and the the wisps Gratch, Larg, Richard well we'll find out we will indeed and then we will read dead of bones and then we will read dead of bones feel like a little dessert just in time for the holidays yeah it's been it's been a journey it has it is a little bit satisfying yes go back to the angle woods guide that would be a happy ending it would yeah I I do feel good about like actually finishing the series well technically we wouldn't be because there are still more books just saying don't we're finishing the main series though everything else is like spin-offs and stuff right is that true according to Goodreads I think first Professor is a prequel and I think that's the only one well presumably it's not Magna Ceres oh no I'm wrong there are more books I knew it yeah I think the last one officially in this series is the law of nines book 15 and a half 15 and a half yeah that must be another novella the first full one is Warheart from 2015 book 15 I don't know that I want to go that far I'm not suggesting that we do I'm just saying you can't say you're finished I guess don't feel good about that I feel like we've finished well because I don't think like it looks like this is about something totally different like the Omen machine I think I have the Omen machine you do because it came in the bundle I got like the cover looks totally different yeah I guess it says returns to the lives of Richard and Raul and Kaelin Amnel in a compelling tale of a new sinister threat to their world well thank god it's a new threat at least it's not to gang I'm willing to read that just for the sake of it not being to gang yeah I have not heard anything good about Omen machine about it yeah so it's like Omen machine third kingdom severed souls and Warheart and then there's the Nikki Chronicles and there's First Confessor which is like the prequel novel and then the children of Mahara yeah I know that one this is time that I could be spending rereading the first law hey we are going to finish all the first law books this year for the first time for me they're almost there also that is only 10 books all together including the short stories yeah oh we're at book 10 of this and it's yeah Jessica gave the Omen machine two stars you know it's bad you're missing jigang oh jigang yeah I'm just going to pretend Stone of Tears is a standalone just to reread that seems like a reasonable choice wizards first rule is that what you mean the first book is wizards first rule wizards first rule yeah the first law series is the series of wizards first rule is the first one wait what did you just say did I say first law yeah part of truth it's because you were talking about Abercrombie and now my brain is okay they're asking then okay first law is just first law okay okay wizards first rule is the first book in the first series first law is the name of the different series yes first law by Abercrombie is a different series now I'm confused yes I mean honestly that's what every book has to live up to and I'm reading this right now could I be reading first law and would that be better and the answer is almost always yes that I should be reading first law so first law is good five stars I don't know let's they're so long it's like so much to which honestly like they're so much extraneous that could be cut out yeah these books were like 200 pages and we just got through the new plot and I could skim the preachy speeches it wouldn't be so bad yeah okay with five stars because it wasn't the element of shame it's the new naked empire oh no there are just like so many other things I want to read like first law go start Salem's law before it's the last day of the month again hush now Arza it's tradition for me to read it the 11th hour is that are you supposed to be reading Salem's law it's the book that they picked for me to vlog and I haven't started this yet but I have had a bad habit of just waiting until the last possible day and reading it all in one day so it's probably well I am still working on my patreon vlog book right now but I have made some read some of it I haven't even touched Salem's law okay here it is I have it I'm a little easier too because I'm doing the paper menagerie by Ken Leo which is great which again I read the whole thing in one day because it was the last day of the month so I don't recommend doing that I'm glad I'm breaking it up yeah it's good yeah I felt like I needed therapy after that day of reading paper menagerie all in one day yeah that would be a lot I have not been doing that it was a lot yeah alright I will say I like the covers for these three books I like the style of the wispy the egg I'm assuming it's Kaelin I don't know who else it would be yes Priscilla hollow places discussion tomorrow that'll be fun it's our patreon book club is that teakingfisher yes I read my first teakingfisher last night what did you read the what with the rabbit on the cover I had no idea it would be a retelling of the house of usher did you like it yeah I really liked it I saw you gave it 5 stars I was happy that for once you and I agree about a spooky book because I feel like we never agree about spooky books we do sometimes but usually they're like gothic dark academia books even then we tend not to agree we like the atlas 6 and Catherine house and secret history I feel like there's a certain kind of thing but you like if we were villains I do and I think you like Riley Sager and what I've read I have not I'm hit and miss with Riley Sager it's hit and miss for me there was something else I feel like I can't remember now but it was a thriller and then I went to go rate it and I was like no now I want to know I can't remember what it was well I know the one that people have some feelings about me liking is the oh god now I can't think of the title of the book it's by oh the maidens oh yeah I thought that was like bingeable but I don't think it was good I liked it but yeah some people don't like it that's one of those books where you can enjoy things that are bad and know that you enjoy things that are bad because I had a good time reading it that's the truth but I don't think it's good and at no point did I think it was good as I was reading it I was like I'm hooked but this is very stupid but yes I will continue reading it and I'm dying to know what happens next it was also because I read it first and then after that I read the silent patient and I was like he only knows how to write one kind of book that's the same thing yeah I haven't read the silent patient but that's what I hear so I feel like I would have hated the maidens more if I had read the silent patient first and been like not only is this not good it's the same that's how I felt about the latest dally oh I've heard anything about it I haven't I don't think so it's the same as her other stuff which is getting old for me I'm braced for a worse book sometimes it can help to hear of terrible things and you're like you know what I mean it wasn't great but like but it wasn't that bad that was me watching the persuasion movie after like the entirety of youtube was like this is the most heinous movie to ever exist and I was like oh boy let's do the whiskey and let's settle in I haven't even watched it because just like the trailer makes me angry I watched it with my mom and she and I had both heard like such awful things about it so like we poured drinks and we're gonna watch it together and then like part way through she and I were like is this not that bad yeah it's not that bad we're enjoying this kind of yeah but you love persuasion like the original okay I don't know everything I've heard I feel like it would make me so mad but I there was one scene that made me angry and I paused it to be like so in the book and my mom was like okay yeah I mean I see your point but like can we keep watching I was like I just need you to know that this scene makes no sense but yeah like it wasn't amazing it wasn't like my favorite Austin like all of the videos being like this is an atrocity this is a crime against cinema I was like oh boy and I watched it and I was like I mean it's kind of weird sometimes when they do these weird modern things but most of the movie is not modern and most of the movie she's like quoting directly from the book like actually what like lines that are from the book and does it pretty well so like most it was weird it was like watching a fairly normal fairly average Austin at that patient and every so often we did a thing modern to be like well that was weird and then we'd continue having a normal movie and then we'd do a weird modern thing and I'm like that was weird and then we'd continue having a normal movie so I was like I could have done it without those moments that were just weird because it was like the whole movie was like that I was like I don't know why you like go in or don't like go all in or just don't do it at all like a night's tale is like full on weird and modern and it's just like clearly stylistically a choice this movie was like here and there and there because they were like we kind of want to try that we're not committing to that idea and I'm like it's weird I was like either commit and make the whole thing this like super modern weird thing or don't because the rest of it feels like a normal Austin adaptation why is this here I think like the commentary on making her a different character than who she was in the book would bug me so like the way I felt about it I read persuasion and was surprised that I liked and as much as I did because the older adaptations this is just we're just not talking about persuasion now the older adaptations I really didn't like and in those films and I feel like like if an is here and this is like a scale of like confidence or whatever and an is in the book is here and like here is the old adaptations and here is the new adaptation so like they just like it's swung too far the other direction so like I like book and the best of the of the versions but I feel like the old adaptations I feel somewhat equally annoyed with because like they make her such a wallflower they over do it to the point where I'm like I'm surprised you got out of bed this morning wasn't that too scary for her like she's not like she's quietly confident like she has she knows what she wants by this point in her life and she has regrets and she's like calmly quietly confident about that she's not like please don't look at me ever right yeah just how she is in the older movies I don't like that either yeah so I was like okay well we went a little too far in the other direction now making her confident but I was like I don't know I think I like that a little better than the like please don't look at me it's just too much in the other one yeah and that so yeah a lot of stuff their lines that either she thinks or also that like it's a lot of the wit in Austin a lot of the wit in Austin books comes from the narrator you know it's stuff that like no character is saying it's just like Austin is saying it kind of sardonically so you get you lose that in any Austin adaptation unless you have a narrator like voiceover thing so they handed a lot of the stuff that like Jane Austin is saying in persuasion they had Anne actually say that stuff so it's like sardonic observations about her family and being quite you know she like the book says a lot of like not nice things about Anne's family so the unless you have a voiceover you're not going to get right and just says those things yeah it's like it's hard to do I get it yeah Mara we were an hour 20 minutes in we have moved on from I don't even know how we got started I'd be there yeah I genuinely don't remember oh we're talking about books that like we think are going to be terrible or good what's that after persuasion well you said it was oh expectations of it being bad making it better when you act yeah yeah so someone I don't think this would have worked on naked empire but if someone had told me that naked empire is the most garbage book of all time in the history of ever maybe I would have maybe it would be like well it wasn't the most garbage book of all time that honor goes to norwegian wood but compared to norwegian wood naked empire is still better exactly bracing for the worst but only getting not great yeah yeah well if you all want to want some a reverse of this I guess with rings of power tune it into chapter 3 podcast how is it a reverse of this well because I well I guess if I had seen it I didn't want to watch the persuasion movie because I was convinced I was going to hate it I thought you were meant a reverse of our phantom talk why because I love phantom excuse me what's the record show no I'm talking about the persuasion conversation because you were like it's not that bad I know I'm trying but it's I know but I hate it and continue plugging the sorry I shouldn't mean to cut you off but I hated the trailer which I also hated the trailer the point okay but yeah I found the trailer to be an accurate representation of the thing oh boy but yeah Tuesday chapter 3 podcast will be talking rings of power I liked it and Leanna did well as everyone knows so we're reading one more next month and then we're reading a prequel novella in December and that's like the end of a plot arc there are more books but that's all we're reading so we read up until the point where the covers stopped matching yes and it's the end of that the main villain like the Jigang villain arc so finally he has been dragged out forever it's not even gonna be satisfying to see him die it's just like finally yeah no but I'm curious to see what people think of our chat because I told you they're gonna be mad everyone's gonna be mad everyone's gonna hate us for one reason or another it's gonna be great I'm glad you are enjoying the thumbnails I'm pretty entertaining like you started it and I was like this is good I'll go continue with the same trend I was the I don't know if you saw the thumbnail I did for empire the vampire but I showed it to Alex first and was like is this okay I'll do a different one if this is not okay he was like oh my god what have you done I'm like is it fine great it's great oh my gosh I'm pretty sure he dies in confessor Priscilla because he doesn't continue on later I think so I don't know we'll see Amanda a quarter way through hollow places you can do it you have till 2pm tomorrow thank you thank you the phantom twist I don't know what twist we're referring to was there a twist I don't know you don't expect me to match it I did actually buy black lipstick for blades and bodice rivers so I'll probably just wear it again for nice yeah I'll probably wear some like dark purple lipstick for it it'll be good I guess that's a twist yeah how could I not with a book called phantom I mean that was pretty funny yeah so blades and bodice rivers we'll be doing that too that's on my channel tomorrow night that'll be funny sadly I did not love my own book club pic it happens to the best of us I mean I like anyway we'll talk about it tomorrow I have more issues with the marketing the marketing speaking of expectations affecting your experience yeah part of the vampire is whatever reviews you reacted to if they were negative they were correct I saw that you guys were doing that live stream that's so funny that sounds like fun what is the book? oh the book is the acienda by Isabel Kanyas it's like a are you on it? okay good it's a good sign though that it's time to go and I still need to finish empire with the vampire I gave Alex permission to Diana oh man I have things I need to finish as well so I have to finish reading paper menagerie for my patrons that's good though that's something to look forward it is good I think it's going to be one of my favorite books of the year it's like oh my god one of my favorite books of the year it's amazing his writing is so good and so varied yes and like yeah so emotional anyway you know that is it from tiktok the emotional damage oh I think that's literally just that is literally a paper yeah that is so smart oh wonderful yeah I mean spoilers for Sunday yes Sunday um Alex hates the book as well but he's so baffled at like all of the dudes the middle aged dudes dudes that love it he's like butch for why I mean I guess maybe for the same reason that Kristoff loves it like the you know that's what I told Alex I was like they are all just Jay Kristoff yeah they're like like former rockers having midlife crises trying to relive their glory days I mean like that's the vibe I get wish they were rockers I don't know they actually were they went to rock concerts you know you know like he thinks he's written system of a down and muse but what he's actually written is my chemical romance who who was just like a soup son of homophobia and misogyny and great all the things we love and yeah I read that really I feel like people everyone reacted to it when he because he did it you know like when the book was coming out it's a lot I need to see this it's like talking about it being interview of the vampire meets the name of the wind while all seasons of game of thrones are playing simultaneously in the background what what oh no that's that is what how did Robin Hobb give this five stars I think she's at the point in her life where she just does it as a professional courtesy well that's very nice of her I seriously doubt that she liked it or even read it where is his review it should be like the top one I know I'm just I have a lot of friends on Goodreads it takes me a while to scroll down oh yeah Alex's review is pretty great if you find it what would happen if interview with the vampire oh also like all the gifts it's a lot it's basically what would happen if interview with the vampire hooked up with name of the wind in an SNM club while all eight seasons of game of thrones streamed in the background consecutively not simultaneously it is not a book for children I mean I agree it's a book for humans but it concerns an ex-monster slayer named Gabrielle de Leon who once was quite the awesome but has been having a tough time of late and has become a bit of an edge lord but he mostly gets away with his drunken I am the night routine because who doesn't like a tall dark half vampire dude with magic tattoos and a tragic past and beautiful hair honestly that should that's funny in the bank where's my what is this review before you ask the vampires and it do not sparkle oh my gosh okay he thinks he's funny he's not no this is wait what the only reason they pursue 16 year old girls is because they see them as food oh oh good I see where this book is going going nowhere this is wow okay damn wait what what it's somewhat gay like not orange is the new black gay but you're talking to the man who wrote me a fucking corvair I'm building up to it give me some goddamn credit so it's gay in the I'm you know homophobic kind of way so is it so it's like gay in a I'm like a straight man women it's like that's scared of gay men good I mean let it not be missed several times it's sodomy is referred to as a sin in the book not fun so fun fun this is there is more if y'all want to go read this review this is a lengthy gift filled that's what it's like reading the book there's art in it wow wow wow that is very interesting Jessica Kristoff is also now on my do not read list so that's why people have tried to get me to read this one I'm like no I think I forget where but Kyle said see the trick is to in reading this book the trick is to remember to hate yourself and then you'll have fun reading it or is that I think this is not well maybe he did the same research for this book but no I think I mean a good author the research is ongoing always good point but no I think some of the books his research was watching lesbian porn with like indeed you gotta make sure you get it right with minors so yeah me and Alex on Sunday will be mainly just roasting it and sighing sounds good good job cathartic maybe some fans will show up and tell us what we didn't get that we should have read it smarter I will you're not metal enough for this book no one is metal enough anyway all right well now that we have gone all over the place I think I did tell you while I was reading phantom I was like I'm actually looking forward to it because you know what it's not empire over the vampire yes like empire the vampire is like it's like it's not Norwegian that's still worse but it's like it's like you know in the circling that landing area mm-hmm I haven't finished empire of the empire yet maybe by the time I finish it I'll be like you know what you're a brother to Norwegian would you can hang up right alongside it I'm sorry good luck I look forward to it and yeah that's uh that'll do it for phantom okay it was we will read confessor you want me to lie look what Kaz did to me today you want me to tell that demon child that she's a good kitten lies lies okay good night good night good night