 Life is about constant evolution. Always better today than we were yesterday. There are no shortcuts to a successful fitness regimen. Only hard work and consistency. And to navigate through the mountain of fitness advice available, candidates must learn to separate fad from function. I'm Daniel Fletcher. Welcome to the Only Easy Day was Yesterday, the official Navy SEAL podcast. In this extended series, we'll speak with select special warfare performance experts to clarify common training misconceptions and provide insight into areas of focus specifically important to special warfare candidates. Today, we extend our fitness series with a discussion about training indoors versus outdoors with director of fitness for SEAL and SWIC training, Mike Caviston. Let's get started. Mike, you've become a bit of a staple on the podcast. It may seem like sometimes you're covering some elementary topics for people. I think that's because of your lifelong exposure to professional fitness. Thank you for your time. I appreciate you stopping by speak with us. Glad to be here. Today, we're going to talk about maybe a unique challenge for people in specific parts of the country that may not have the perfect 72-degree outdoor weather that we have in San Diego almost all year long where they have the option to train both in and outdoors. Whether you're in Minnesota or Arizona, there are some extremes that people have to deal with. In those extreme temperature locations, how can people get the cardio that they need in a variety that you think is appropriate for training for buds? I know that obviously there's things like the treadmill. Do you think there's anything specific that people can do to kind of edge out that and cry a little more variety for themselves? Or do you think the treadmill is sufficient? Maybe you can expand on that. Well, to be clear to our audience, the single most important thing to do to prepare for buds is to develop your running ability. So they need to be working on becoming a better runner, following a progressive training program and that'll probably involve being outdoors a bit. But as you say, there are plenty of situations where there might not be possible because of environment or other reasons. And so coming indoors where hopefully the environment is a little bit more controlled would be a good idea. And one of the things they might do if they're going to be a better runner is to get on the treadmill. And so a little bit of that is fine. I have no particular problem with running on a treadmill. I think it is a good analog for running outside. I wouldn't only run on the treadmill, but as long as you're in a gym, if you've got a good selection of equipment, I would also take the opportunity to try some other cardio activities to complement the running. Can you give us maybe some examples of pieces of apparatus or types of machines that you're talking about? You're talking about putting super lightweight on something, doing high reps or what do you... No, no, I wouldn't think about weightlifting at all. I would think about any type of activity. I mean, a good cardio activity is something that's going to use a fairly large muscle mass. So think of an activity that's probably going to include the legs like running wood and then hopefully maybe a little bit of the upper body and the trunk. And so cycling would use the legs a bit, maybe not the upper body. Rowing would be a pretty good whole body workout because it uses the legs, also the trunk and the arms, stair climbing machines, elliptical. There's a wide variety of things. And I would stick to those and not that I wouldn't do lifting and there's time and a place for circuit training or low weight, high rep lifting, but I wouldn't do that specifically to get a cardiovascular workout. For people that don't have a full gym available to them, what movements or exercises would you push people to do outside of running on a treadmill to help develop that? Say you're stuck in a dorm room and you need to be able to put in the work to get your cardio level where it needs to be. I know that maybe it's an extreme example, but I'm sure there are people listening that are in some sort of constrained environment like that. Well, that would be a pretty extreme example. I would hope that somebody would be able to find, at least a partially stocked gym where they might have again just a stationary bike if you can't get out on the road or some form of cardio equipment. Yeah, you might have to be pretty creative and maybe just do step ups for an hour, but I would hope that most of the people listening wouldn't be that restricted and that they'd have some option of finding some sort of cardiovascular equipment in a gym even if they can't get outside to run. Yeah, I think finding a gym that has or maybe just scouting out the gym is maybe something important to do if you know that you're in an area that you have limited availability to the outdoors for a certain percentage of the year. I'd imagine most of those places, they're aware of the fact that in three feet of snow you're not gonna be able to ride your bike down the sidewalk. So those gyms are probably pretty well stocked. So when you're out searching for a gym, make sure that's checked off the list for yourself or if you have the opportunity, invest in maybe a used bike or whatever's available to get in your house if you don't have something close by. Well, true. So anybody that's trying to plan ahead for their training and preparation of coming into one of the NSW programs, scouting out gyms that would include a wide variety of not only strength training but cardiovascular equipment. And you also make a good point about looking at some of the home options people might have. And so there are different pieces of exercise equipment that may be affordable to people to have in the home they can keep in the garage or the basement to use when they need to. It doesn't necessarily have to be a brand new with the pulse monitor and the screen and the video player or the iPod dock or whatever it is. Yeah, correct. It could be functional without having all those whistles and bells. I know it seems very elementary and kind of have to peel back those layers and think to yourself, you know, whether it's like you said, step ups, burpees. Obviously, you're not going to be able to mimic complete representation of like the running experience. Well, you know, I could say, yeah, that's all better than nothing, but not a lot. Yeah, I mean, and that's worth mentioning that if... It's coming down to one of those things where everybody wants like the magic solution. It's like, oh, I have no time but I want to lose a lot of weight. Yeah, I think that's kind of worth noting what I was going to say. If you're so limited in your capacity to expose yourself to the types of stimulus that's required to get yourself in the condition that's needed, some self-assessment may be needed in your lifestyle, your occupation choice or where you are and how important it is for you to try to get through this pipeline. And that sacrifices do need to be made whether it's small things or big things to be able to put yourself in the position you need to. There are certain parts, I think, of cardio training that specifically lend themselves to working better indoors or outdoors, whether it's being on a treadmill or a stair machine and being able to monitor your heart rate or specific interval training. What types of things do you think would maybe be better to do outdoors versus indoors? I know that if you're doing some things that you want to kind of keep track of, the time's a little bit more specifically or you want to get your heart rate and you don't have a heart rate monitor, is it best to use the sprint training outsize or the long slow distance outdoors versus indoors? Yeah, I would say the long slow distance would probably translate well to either environment, doing a steady run outdoors versus doing a steady run on a treadmill or a steady 40 minutes on a stair climber that's all steady, heartbeat steady. So I think that translates a little bit better. In terms of choosing the mode to do an interval workout, you need to choose something that you're able to perform at a high intensity. In other words, most people should be able to run and so if you can find a... I always recommend a good outdoor track. If you can find a high school or a community college that's got a good quarter mile track and you can accurately measure your distances and keep track of your times, that's probably a great way to do it. If you can't do that, you can improvise and come up with some measured courses but I always encourage people to find a good, firm, fast, safe surface so that you can run fast and have a high intensity output. Now, if you're in a gym and you can't run, you might do that on the treadmill but you might also use another piece of equipment. Again, my background in rowing, I always think of very tough rowing workouts but I know how to roll and so I can get the most out of a rowing machine whereas a lot of beginners might not get the benefit out of trying to do high intensity with a format that they're not familiar with. So if you're talking about the difference between indoors and outdoors, for many people, it might be better to try to do their high intensity if they can do it outdoors where they can really run hard. For people that maybe do all of their training on a certain piece of equipment, whether they feel really comfortable getting in and getting on the elliptical and putting in an hour or whatever it may be, I would imagine that there's some benefit to getting outdoors in terms of developing your kind of self-feel. Not that that's like an official word or a thing but instead of having a screen in front of you that's telling you your distance and your time and your calories and all of this stuff. You think there's anything to that? Well, I think it is good to get outside and just experience nature and just sort of run in that environment and get in tune with your body. I think there are pros and cons with any piece of equipment or machine that gives you certain information, certain feedback. Feedback is generally a good thing if you know how to interpret it. Sometimes you have to learn how to operate without that feedback and so if you're running outdoors without any other sort of electronic aid that might be beneficial. I guess a lot of the development that goes along with the physical measurable fitness that we see that's required at Buds is that grit or ability to either tune in or tune out during an exercise and put in the work and to me I've always felt like outdoors enables me at least particularly to kind of shut off my brain to those numbers that are going by like oh I'm gonna go for two minutes oh there's only 30 more seconds left and creates a little bit of circular thinking or can sometimes inhibit a workout intensity or length because you're not going anywhere, you know? So I feel like a big part of training for Buds is developing that kind of self-awareness and putting yourself in uncomfortable positions and being okay with being four miles away from your house and tired but needing to get back home, you know? And I think people maybe want to put in the mileage and do the numbers and not necessarily equate to the same as like you're saying going out into nature and putting yourself on an incline or the uneven terrain and stuff like that developing that part of your kind of intuition a little bit I think is to some benefit can you talk a little bit about how you would recommend people incorporate indoor sessions into existing really well-programmed outdoor training? Sure, no I think that one of the challenges many people will face if they're trying to become better runners is to build up their mileage in a safe way and so I'm always telling people you got to run well and to do that you've got to spend some time running I also try to caution them at the same time don't do too much too soon so don't go out and try to do 40 miles a week if you haven't been running at all or if you've only been running 10 miles a week so the way that the person can utilize a gym if it's a good gym with a wide variety of equipment is to gradually build up their running mileage by complimenting it and supplementing with other types of activity so if your goal is to run 40 miles a week and you're currently running 10 or 15 miles a week go into the gym and get on a piece of equipment and choose it based on what you like to do I mean there's no particular one that I think is inherently way better than any other to prepare you get your heart pumping your heart doesn't really care what activity you do as long as you get your heart pumping so it might be a bike it might be a treadmill might be an elliptical but spend some time on that equipment and get your heart stronger and then as your legs get stronger from outdoor running you can gradually increase your running mileage to say 20 miles a week, 25 miles a week and you can continue to do additional cardio on other equipment because that will still make your heart strong and that will benefit you overall or if you're pressed for time you can start to reduce some of the time that you spend on the indoor alternate equipment so a little bit less time on the elliptical and a little bit more time outdoor on the road but you can make the transition in that way so you can safely build up your running mileage keep the wear and tear in your legs to a minimum or progress the mileage in such a way that your body is able to adapt but still get cardiovascular benefit by doing other low impact exercises that you actually enjoy doing For people that have spent most of their life training indoors whether it's treadmill on the ERG or on any other type of indoor machine going outdoors to do run training let's say specifically may be intimidating just because of the aspect of danger involved of being on a busy street you run a lot in your life on the street talk us through some of the preventative measures for safety that you recommend people just cover as a basis whether it's avoiding running at night time certain sides of the street or clothing anything like that that you recommend Yeah, well certainly if you're going to run outdoors you want to pay attention to safety and one of the things would certainly be if you are running say early in the morning before the sun comes up which I think is probably a situation a lot of listeners might be in so you know they got to get to work early and so they've got to train even earlier and it's dark out well try to find a place where traffic is minimal make sure that you're lit properly where light covered clothing where lights on your head on your waist on your shoes whatever it takes to make sure that any motorist can see you clearly and then when you're running don't dart into areas where a motorist might be Don't throw yourself into traffic Exactly right, exactly right so that's one thing or even if you're running outside in daylight one of the things I mean I've done over my life is try to find a nice back road somewhere maybe a country road somewhere good scenery whatever not a lot of traffic but once in a while traffic does come so you got to be alert run against traffic so that I can step off onto the shoulder What do you mean by that? So traffic is on the right hand side so I'll run on the left hand side so I'm running directly into traffic if a car is coming the car can see me I can see the car and then if there's not enough room on the road I can step off the road until a car goes by So you see it coming basically? See it coming, yeah So if you're running in the same direction that traffic is coming a car is behind you you might hear it you might not you don't know what the car is going to do you might assume the car sees you but if it doesn't you're in trouble so I always like to face oncoming traffic so that I can make adjustments accordingly You spend a lot of time on the bike every episode that we've recorded I think I've seen your bike leaning against the building that we're going to be recording in Don't own a car, only own a bike There you go and there's a certain amount of responsibility that goes with that in terms of just maintenance and being safe Obviously you've run a stationary bike it's a lot more safe than driving down the street and some of the similar kind of safety stuff comes into play there with visibility What are some of the unique things that you do on the bike to keep yourself safe? Well just always assume that motorists are not paying attention Don't assume because you've got the right way that the motorist is going to give you the right way So you know if I'm in an intersection and there's a car to one side I make sure I've got eye contact before I proceed even though I got the green light because he might not see me or I might not care that I'm there or he might misjudge my speed and I've had a number of close calls that way So you know just always be alert and never assume that motorists are going to give you the right of way you know automatically verify it by looking at them directly And helmet? Yeah, it's always wear a helmet Always wear a helmet I mean on basis mandatory you can't get on base without a helmet and different communities have different laws about helmets but you know I wear one regardless and I would recommend that everybody wear one and I can say personally I've ridden thousands and thousands and thousands of miles on the road over the years and I've only had a couple of like really close calls that were life threatening but the helmet saved my life in those cases so even if it's just redundant for 364 days out of the year that one day it's important I'm glad I'm wearing it So in terms of the equipment that you use let's say a bike can people get in the exercise that they need on any type of bike or do they need something specific? I don't think it has to be too high tech if you are going to pursue racing as a sport you're going to need a pretty high end bike it's going to cost you some money But in terms of just developing cardiovascular fitness No, you might not go as fast as a true racer but you can still get your heart working and get your legs working even though you're not physically traveling at a high rate of speed you can still get a good workout so no, you don't have to get a fast bike necessarily just to be able to get a good workout again especially if it's just a supplement to You're running or just racing, right? Yeah, exactly, exactly I think the big takeaway for me is that there are very specific benefits for getting outdoors and running on uneven terrain up and down hills even if they're very minor even just the crest of the road you're running on is making an impact on your body and it's worth it to put yourself in an uncomfortable situation even if it's a little too cold or warmer than you're comfortable working out in those have benefits as well and being in those environments and conditions have enough benefit I think it's worth it to pursue instead of just doing all your work indoors if you can I don't disagree with that but I would add that if you're doing a lot of training outdoors in extreme conditions like yeah, being uncomfortable in a hot or cold environment is potentially a good thing but I wouldn't plan to do all of my training in those conditions and so if it's hot routinely like if you're in a long hot Arizona summer figure out when the coolest part of the day is or try to make sure that you can get some quality training in when it's cool enough to run well and same thing if it's cold it's possible to do some pretty productive training in some pretty cold environments but still make sure that you're able to train well train effectively not just trying to make yourself cold Right, right, right you'd be able to put in the volume that's needed Yes, you've got to actually do the training in a productive manner Yeah, so pay attention to the amount of volume you're able to do if it is warm outside but I think the benefits definitely outweigh the risks if you put in the right time to do things correctly you wear this right gear you're not out being reckless get outside put in the miles I think that's what we're hearing from you Well, thank you so much for your time I appreciate it My pleasure