 You are the protagonist, you are the protagonist, when they finish your career team. Fatto, ci siete? Iniziamo? Hi everyone, we will do this conference in English, that's the first information to let you know. But there will be the possibility to ask questions in Italian and they will be translated. And Alessio is the one who is going to do it. And of course, yes, replies also are going to be translated. So I would like to thank here Yanis Varoufakis for accepting our invitation to come here and tell us the latest news about this movement. And of course also his opinion on what is going on in Italy. I'm going to ask actually a question exactly on this Yanis. It's going to be my first question. If you can give us some insight on your agenda and on your new alliances in Europe. Thinking about the European election of next year. Because there was some talking about the five movement stars and also Melechon. So we would like to understand if you can tell us something about your plans for the next weeks and months. Thank you. Well, thank you so much. Thank you to all of you for being here. Thank you for your hospitality. And thank you for your question. But the main reason why we're here is because Italy today is being torn apart by two destructive forces. One is Brussels and the other is Salvini. By the failed establishment of Renzi, Merkel, Junker, Moscovici on the one hand. And by the reckless racist xenophobic anti-European Salvini project. What we are doing as DM25 in Italy, in France, in Germany, in Greece has to be seen in this context. Today Italy is ground zero of the European crisis. Italy should be in the focus of progressives around the world. Brussels and Salvini. This is a statement that may surprise some of you. Brussels and Salvini are working very well together, as we speak, against the interests of Italians in particular and of Europeans in general. Salvini is Brussels' greatest supporter. Mr. Junker, Mrs. Merkel, Macron et al. Are hanging onto power with the argument whatever mistakes we have made in Brussels, in Berlin, in Rome, talking about Renzi. After us comes Salvini, so you better support us. And Brussels is also Salvini's greatest supporter. By imposing on Italy rules that guarantee Italy's stagnation and falling income for average Italians, they enable Salvini's sortie into xenophobic populism. Allow me to turn directly to the issue that concerns most of you here in Italy today. The clash on the Italian budget with Brussels. Our position as the M25 is that both Brussels and the Lega-Chinquistella government are profoundly and intentionally wrong. Brussels is wrong to impose on Italy fiscal and banking rules that guarantee Italy stagnation. Rules that were agreed to by the now collapsing Italian establishment. The European Union's revamped fiscal rules are analytically baseless. There is no such thing as a structural deficit. It cannot be measured and it should not be measured. It is based on faulty economics. They are forcing Rome to introduce new sterity at a time when Italy's growth has collapsed to almost 0%. If the Italian government, any Italian government, were to follow the fiscal compact, you would have an increase in the debt to GDP ratio. Not at all because the denominator, your GDP would go into reversal. You would have another recession. The Lega-Chinquistella government is wrong also. This budget will not boost growth sufficiently to make a difference to most people. And the result will be a deficit overshoot without much benefit. Cutting, for instance, the top tax rate will not boost growth. When the rich receive a handout, they take it to Switzerland or to Luxembourg. Or save it. Even worse, it is our view that both Brussels and this government know that they are wrong. Brussels is choosing to be wrong because Brussels, the bureaucracy, is more interested in maintaining control over our countries than they are in shared prosperity across Europe. And the Lega-Chinquistella government is choosing to be wrong because Salvini and Imayo are more interested in maintaining this precarious alliance than in the prosperity of the Italian people. So, here we are, as DiEM25, facing this situation. Italy stagnates because its centrist establishment agreed to European Union rules that choked Italy, causing its own political demise, the political demise of the establishment that approved these rules, and paving the ground for Salvini. The ancient regime of Renzi et al and his patrons in Brussels and the Lega-Chinquistella government are two faces of the same problem. And they will continue to reinforce each other while Italy sinks, while Europe fragments. One of the side effects, the collateral damage of this clash between Salvini and Brussels is that we have stopped talking about the eurozone reforms that are absolutely necessary to keep Italy in the eurozone, to keep Greece in the eurozone, to keep the eurozone sustainable. Reforms that even President Macron discussed are now dead in the water. The oligarchic establishment, the PD, Forte Italia, caused the problem and today they cannot pretend to be part of a solution. Salvini is exploiting this to bring through his rabid xenophobia a new fascist moment in Italy, while Chinquistella is increasingly discredited as a crutch on which Mr. Salvini is leaning to take over government completely next year. We must act now. Italy has an urgent need for a new progressive alternative to the implicit but destructive alliance between the establishment and Salvini's nationalism. But what Italy does not need from us progressives is yet another sad leftist alliance of the usual left wing suspects. Italy does not need another Frankenstein left wing list that stitches together the dead parts of what used to be Italy's glorious left. The last thing the Italians need is another list of leftist candidates lacking a coherent program of change, a Europeanist program of change that answers the question what do you do with the banks, what do you do with public debt, what do you do with poverty, not only in Italy but also in France, in Germany, in Greece. This is why we are here today to announce that we are going to put together such a list with a single coherent credible program. You may very well ask, and who are you? Who are we who are going to do this? Last March in Napoli, Diem 25, I was there, colleagues, political movements from Poland, Denmark, Portugal, my friend Benoamon from France together with Luigi de Magistris, the mayor of Napoli, we embarked upon this project of putting together a transnationalist with a coherent program across Europe. This program is now complete, after many months of very hard work. It is the progressive ecological feminist humanist national program of the Pan-European coalition that we now call Primavera Europea, European Spring. What do we propose? Because this is Italy and we have a major crisis, allow me to start with Italy. Let me give you an example of the kind of proposals that we are bringing to the table that address the local, the national and the European at the same time. The first thing we propose regarding the Italian budget is that the component of it which concerns minimum guaranteed income is introduced and indeed expanded simultaneously. Number two, scrap Salvini's top tax cut. When you give handouts to the rich, as I said before, you are not boosting growth. We have known this forever. Why have we forgotten it now? Replace those tax cuts with a growth enhancing green investment plan that pushes the deficit not to 2.4% of GDP, but to 3% of GDP. But most of it is made up of public investment. We are talking about something like 20 billion for three purposes. First, the industrial and ecological transition necessary in this country to solve for instance problems like Ilva in Taranto and offshoring of low added value manufacturing. Secondly, environmental safety beginning with a plan for seismic prevention that we have included in our program. And thirdly, investment in infrastructure to avoid repetition of the general disaster. Disaster and invest in sustainable transport. And what about the fiscal rules of the European Union? Our proposal is that we go from 2.4 to 3, but in a growth enhancing manner. Well, if the European Union wants Italy to adhere to the fiscal compact, it can be done. Our proposal is that the government of Italy calls for a European Union Council summit to propose the following in order to reduce the fiscal deficit of Italy from 3% to 0.8% even to 0% if Europe cares for this, so badly. That we adopt as the European Union Council can give this green light as a result of one simple decision, no need for any treaty changes whatsoever to give the green light to the European investment bank that belongs to all EU member states in European investment bank bonds up to 5% of eurozone GDP per year for 5 years. This is about 500 billion euros with the European central bank standing by in the secondary bond markets to purchase those bonds in the same way that it has been doing for the last few years. This way you boost investment, public investment through the European investment bank in Italy, in Germany, in Greece by 5% of GDP. And that way you can ameliorate then you could have an Italian government which is reducing Italian deficit down to the levels prescribed by the European Council and the fiscal bank. This is part of our new deal for Europe. You can see that we are combining a solution for Italy with a solution for Europe. Europe desperately needs a large scale green investment programme to create the good quality jobs that we are lacking across Europe which are causing our young into precarious jobs in Germany as much as in Italy which feeds the nationalist internationalism across Europe, racism, xenophobia. We need to make this investment in the green energy union that we do not have for many reasons for the planet's sake but also for the sake of becoming decoupled from Putin's Gazprom. DM25 in every country, we just gave you an example here in Italy, combine solutions at the pan-European level with solutions at the national level, indeed the regional level. Ladies and gentlemen, austerity for the many and socialism for the bankers has given rise to the present fascist moment in Italy, to the collapse of the political centre everywhere, to the reactionary divided Europe that Mr Trump dreams of. Today here in Rome we are saying enough, we are saying another Italy, another Europe is not only possible but it is here in the form of our transnational movement with a single coherent programme that people can believe in, in Italy, in Germany, in France everywhere. Talking about our next steps. We are here as part of the process that we began in Napoli in March of this year with Luigi de Magistris, with Benoit Amon of Generazione, with the Alternative Party in Denmark, with Rasm in Poland, with Livre in Portugal, with Mera25, our new party in Greece, with green parties that we are in discussions with, with leftist parties, but what matters to us is that we do not simply present to you a list of people who want to be elected. That our list should have one common radical Europeanist programme. Whoever wants to discuss this programme with us, which is at a very advanced stage, we can go into europeanspring.net and read our programme for Europe as a whole. Anyone who wants to discuss this can come along. The discussion, are you with Mellon Sean? Are you with whoever? Is not the kind of discussion that the people are there care for. This is old style politics, we are not interested in it. We are interested in solutions. Anyone who wants to join us on the basis of one programme for the whole of Europe in Italy, that works for Germany, can come with us and will be part of this list. The European Parliament elections in May 2019, they are only a start. They give us an opportunity to have this debate. We will use the May elections to transcend the fake conflict between Salvini and Brussels, between the authoritarian incompetent establishment and the misanthropic nationalist international. DmItalia is here. We are moving up and down the country. We are scheduling three major events in November. There is going to be one, the final one in Milano. There is going to be one in Taranto. There are going to be three major events. We are beginning to collect the signatures that are necessary for DmItalia to run in Italy. We invite all the various partners that we embarked upon this journey last March in Napoli to join us, but there is no more time to waste. We are moving. We are declaring our presence in Italy and elsewhere because we are going to be doing the same thing. There will be a similar announcement of a political party belonging to Dm25 in Germany on the 24th and 25th of November. In Greece we have already started. In France we are here not only to contest an election, but we are here to bring to the people of Italy a scent of next May's European Spring with a message. Italian progressives are no longer alone. Thank you. Thank you, Yanis. We open to the questions. So if there are any. Avete bisogno di traduzione di quello che hai appena detto, qualcosa in particolare? Ok. Sì, allora... Microphone. No, la mimima qui. Hello, Angela Mauro, off into post Italy. You didn't talk about immigration, which is a topic on which Salvini gains votes. So what do you have to say about that? I think it's a topical point in the next European electoral campaign for everybody. Thanks. Europe does not have a migration crisis. Italy and Greece, we have a migration problem. Why? Because there is no such thing as a European Union. Europe as a whole is large enough and rich enough to deal with this problem in a humane way. We must bind together in order to change the position of the European Union regarding migration. So we're not going to do it through using migrants as scapegoats. We're not going to succeed either saving our countries or our Europe by turning xenophobia or turbocharging, I should say, xenophobia like Salvini is doing. The fact that Salvini is gaining votes in Italy by becoming increasingly racist. It's simply a symptom of inability of progressives to bind together to combine. A rational approach to the problem with the humanism which is in the heart and in the minds of Italians and Europeans. Our position is very simple. The migrants that are coming to our shores are an essential resource for the future. Europe needs migration. We are an aging society at the European level. But you cannot pile up migrants in Italy and in Greece on the basis of xenophobia in Austria, in Germany, in France, which then gives a xenophobia, like Mr. Salvini, the opportunity to gather power in Italy through turning humans against humans. Allora, per rispondere alla sua domanda, noi sappiamo che in Italia c'è un problema di migrazione. Perché non c'è l'Unione europea, purtroppo. L'Unione europea è sufficientemente grande e anche ricca per poter pensare a questo problema dell'immigrazione in maniera più umana. Quindi abbiamo senza dubbio cambiare la posizione dell'Unione europea per quanto riguarda la migrazione. Ma non lo possiamo fare sfruttando i migranti semplicemente per i nostri fini elettorali e politici, perché quello non avrebbe mai successo. Non possiamo veramente sfruttare la xenofobia come sta facendo Salvini. Il fatto che Salvini stia ricevendo così tanto consenso in Italia è dovuto a cosa. Beh, è dovuto al fatto che di fatto le forze proprio esiste assieme non riescono a fornire un approccio razionale a questo problema comune che riguarda l'immigrazione, gestendolo magari con quell'umanesimo che nelle cuori e nelle menti di noi italiani. Noi abbiamo bisogno di questi migranti che provengono dalle coste perché assolutamente sono necessarie. Ado anche l'invecchiamento della società italiana ma anche delle società europee. Quindi non possiamo senza dubbio sfruttare la xenofobia in varie nazioni eccetera, perché altrimenti poi finiremo per fare il gioco di Salvini e finiremo poi anche per porre gli esseri umani gli uni contro gli altri. Cosa che assolutamente vogliamo cercare di evitare. Simon. Ciao, io sono Simon Ekron da una pittura nuova da Norweggia, io volevo chiedere a voi, hai diventato famosa per opposire la Commissione EU e le politiche economiche. Spero se potete essere un po' più specifico su cosa è la differenza in modo in cui i tuoi giorni criticano la Commissione EU e il modo in cui il governo italiano fa questo. Quando ci viene la manovra, quando ci viene il budget, ovviamente c'è molte differenze quando ci viene l'immigrazione per esempio ma esattamente il modo in cui c'è il loro gioco per avere la loro politica economica. E poi, una seconda domanda su la Cinque Stelle, hai completely given up hope on seeing the five star movement as a progressive force in Europe, do you now count them as equal to Lega or do you see some kind of possibility in the future of changing that situation? Regarding the difference between our opposition to the Brussels establishment and that of the Lega, we are radical Europeanists. We want to bring Europe together. We want, if you want a federal Europe that works democratically, whereas Mr. Cervini and his Lega would like to see the dismemberment of the European Union and maybe its retention as nothing more than a trade zone. That is a profound difference. Profound difference. We are opposing Brussels because we are Europeanists and as Europeanists we are against the policies of Brussels that are destroying Europe and giving Mr. Cervini the opportunity to finish it off. On the second question, we never give up hope on anyone. Some of us are atheists within the M25, but we are all believers in humanity. Cinque Stelle have to decide for themselves whether they want to continue this path of being the crutch and racist, xenophobic Lega and to be working for them before Mr. Cervini choose them up and spits them out after the European Parliament election or whether they want to return to a humanist bloc. If they do, we will welcome. Alla sua domanda. Aspetta, aspetta, aspetta. Vediamo se avete bisogno della traduzione. Così risparmiamo tempo, andiamo all'altra domanda. Sì, ok. Sì, si puoi fare un piccolo riassunto. Allora, per quanto riguarda l'immigrazione noi vogliamo appunto far unire l'Europa. Vogliamo un'Europa federale mentre invece il signor Salvini e la Lega vuole smembrarla l'Unione europea, no? E, di fatto, magari la vuole ridurre poi una zona di libero scampio e non è assolutamente quello che vogliamo fare noi. Noi siamo contro Bruxelles, perché? Per un motivo, perché siamo europei e come europei siamo contro questa politica di Bruxelles che alla fine finisce specia per fare il gioco di Salvini. Per quanto riguarda la seconda domanda, non dobbiamo mai perdere la speranza, no? Alcuni di noi sono atei all'interno di DM25, però siamo tutti quanti credenti. Credenti in che cosa? Nell'umanità. I Cinque Stelle hanno deciso di prendere una strada e a questo punto devono decidere se continuare a seguirla e magari lasciarsi, diciamo così, sopra fare da una Lega xenofobica oppure scegliere una strada diversa perché dopo le elezioni rischio che verranno poi estromessi dagli processi. Giovanna Ferrara, il manifesto. Io volevo fare questa domanda. Dal punto di vista di una nuova architettura delle Europa cosa ne pensa della particolare situazione che si è creata in Italia riguardo ai conflitti interistituzionali? Penso al caso di Mimmo Lucano e penso anche ai casi dei porti aperti dai comuni contro le circolari del Viminale e penso, infine, all'operazione mediterrania che è un'operazione nata proprio per diventare l'incudine all'interno di questo conflitto interistituzionale. Ok. So, she's referring to inter-institutional conflicts in, for example, with municipalities that sometimes are against the decisions of the interior ministry and also other issues that occur within this inter-institutional conflict between the central government and the local government. She mentioned the case of Mimmo Lucano, the Riaccio. Yes. What Deem25 is a municipalist movement, not just a Europeanist movement. We believe that within a united Europe, a democratic Europe, regions and municipalities should have a lot more autonomy. Indeed, the Eurozone crisis has reduced the autonomy of mayors of regional authorities by pushing authority down to the level of the local. And the result is a greater crisis, both of the local economies and of democracy. In the case of Riaccio, you will allow me to simply add to that which you all know that I find personally quite interesting and worrying that in an area where you have a particular mayor effectively damaging the interests of the mafia by taking away contracts from them, that this government, that at least part of it was supposed to be absolutely determined to make a difference in this fight, is targeting this particular mayor in the way that they are doing it. This is why Deem believes that very strongly that this fake contradiction, this fake conflict between the establishment and the anti-establishment government is fake, even down to the level of Riaccio. You see how fake it is. Allora, per rispondere alla sua domanda, noi riteniamo che per avere una Europa veramente unita e democratica, le regioni e le municipalità devono senza dubbio avere un ruolo molto maggiore. E di fatto, infatti, questa crisi europea ha fatto l'esatto opposto, ha ridotto il potere dei sindaci a livello locale. Questo ha portato a una crisi sia delle economie locali, ma anche delle democrazie. Per quanto riguarda Riaccio, il sindaco, noi siamo tutti quanti a conoscenza del fatto che è una situazione preoccupante, perché in una data zona avevamo un sindaco che stava di fatto cercando di togliere forza a lavoro alla mafia, togliendo la forza della quale avevano bisogno. È strano che questo governo non abbia incoraggiato l'iniziativa di quel sindaco e lo abbia ostacolato e addirittura impossibilitato nel proseguire le sue azioni. Quindi noi riteniamo che questo conflitto esistente tra l'establishment e l'anti-establishment italiano e poi alla fine dei conti fasullo. Questo lo vediamo in tanti eventi tra i quali anche questo. Grazie Alessio. Ho una questione anche per te, Yanis. È una curiosità, in realtà, perché noi parliamo molto di strategie di comunicazione e anche di attracchiare i cittadini, i cittadini eroscaptici che sono apparellentemente crescendo. E io vorrei dire una cosa, cioè, hai una comunicazione, una strategia specifica di comunicazione? Spindottor, e queste nuove tuele, c'è un scenario di usare nuove tuele per spreadere le idee? Abbiamo nessun spindottor, non abbiamo immagini, non perché non possiamo usare, però non vogliamo. E non vogliamo perché io credo che le persone avessero abbastanza di spindotto, hanno abbastanza di fagi, hanno abbastanza di politici. Noi non siamo politici, stiamo scopriando in politica, non perché vogliamo diventare ministri o membri di Parlamento, ma perché sentiamo una duttore historica per intervenire in questo conflitto fisico tra l'establishmento e l'establishmento e l'establishmento. Il modo in cui stiamo accortando, quelli che sono sceptici, non solo per Europa, ma per politici, per il futuro, per la capacità di democrazione per cambiare qualcosa. Siamo determinati di adessare particolari problemi con molti specifici propositi. Non il pensamento wishful, non vogliamo un'altra Europa, un'altra世界. No, l'avete detto prima, il proposito specifico per il budget italiano. Siamo argomenti che, sì, per il minimo garantimento di sviluppo, di sviluppo, di sviluppo, sì, per il minimo garantimento di sviluppo, non per i tax cuts, usare questo paese per l'investimento pubblico, esplendere dove pensiamo che il paese deve andare, magari boostare il deficit per 3%, ma, al stesso tempo, andare all'Unione europea con un proposito che è completamente legale e in le tradizioni su come stradere il deficit, mentre boostare l'investimento in un euro europeo. Quindi, parlando di persone, di persone di quale, rispondendo il loro numero 1, che è perché dovrebbe essere optimistico per il futuro dei miei figli? L'ansere è perché abbiamo la capacità, come europei, come italiani, di investire in una qualità buona, di gravi, per i miei figli e questo è come possiamo farlo. Questo è il nostro Dr. Spin. Non è in Utopia? Che stai dicendo? Che è in Utopia? È per pensare che possiamo continuare the way we're continuing. Che è l'utopica? È per pensare per i brassoli che se solo Mr. Renzi dovevano ripartere in Italia per impostare le regole di brassoli. Tutto sarebbe bene. È in Utopia. Che è in Utopia? È per pensare che Mr. Salvini ha avuto anche più hatred per i foreigners e ha avuto con l'Europa senza un progetto per l'investimento greino che ci sono migliori. Lo che proposiamo è l'unico progetto realistico. È l'utopica di pensare che il realismo può succedere? Beh, magari, ma è un utopico realistico e è l'unico che può arrumare un'office distopica da scegliere. Dovrei parlare in Utopia? No. No? Ok, qui. Sì. Buongiorno. Sono Luca Mariani, l'Agenza Italia. Se è possibile, vorrei parlare in Italia. Yes, yes. Tre domande. La prima. Lei sarà lo Spitz & Candidate per la Commissione UE. Abbiamo due. Oh, no. Brevissime. Spitz & Candidate per la Commissione UE sarà Mr. Varufakis. Seconda domanda. Chi sarà l'uomo di punta del vostro movimento in Italia? De Magistris, Sindaco di Napoli. Terza domanda. Io vedo Salvini che dichiara che a Mosca si trova più al sicuro che nelle capitali europee. Vedo Trump che ha un rapporto privilegiato con Conte e Phara. Forse qui non è una contrapposizione Bruxelles Salvini. Qui forse in gioco un po' più grande. Lei cosa ne pensa? Of course it is a much bigger game. But Mr. Salvini is a major player. Steve Bannon will conquer. There are other players. Mr. Zehoffer in Munich. Those who will probably replace Mrs. Merkel. Mr. Orbán. Mr. Kurtz. And so on and so forth. But let me answer your question about Spitz & Candidate. This process has already died. According to the Christian Democrats they don't believe in it. The social Democrats have ceased to exist. It seems to me that this process has been shown up for what it was. A fake democratic process. Now, DiEM25, European Spring, our alliance are going to have an open primary before May to decide who is going to represent us in Brussels. So you can think of this as Spitz & Candidate of the movement. If you are asking me personally I am going to make myself available to the movement. But let me also say that we are absolutely determined to break free of national divisions. In the European Parliament elections our movement is going to have a German leading the ticket in Greece. There will be Greeks contesting European Parliament seats in Germany. There will be Italians in France and so on. This is our symbolic way of doing away with this fake division between north and south. There is no division between north and south. No clash between Italy and Germany or Greece and Germany. There is only one clash between progressives and those who are undoing our societies everywhere. And that clash happens in Greece, in Italy, everywhere. I think that's more or less what I want to say on this issue. You need translation? No, ok. I can speak in English but it's bad and maybe Italian. I just want to... Scusa, io volevo solamente chiedere ci sono state la settimana scorsa lezioni in Bavaria, con la vincita appunto del Partito Verde guidato da una 34 trenne. Volevo sapere se queste elezioni in cui appunto per la prima volta un Partito Verde, una donna così giovane in Baviera, la terra dell'industria automobilistica tedesca, con un Partito Verde che parla senza apeli sulla lingua anche di un numero chiuso per quello che riguarda le politiche migratorie. Volevo sapere se questo è una possibile alleanza per quello che riguarda la situazione tedesca di DM in Germania e se DM, quando parlavamo prima di umanesimo nella risposta al problema migratorio, che cosa significa? Se si può parlare anche appunto senza censura di una sorta di numero chiuso legato chiaramente alla possibilità di dare educazione, lavoro e un'accoglianza dignitosa ai migranti che arrivano in tutta Europa, parlo. Poi si può prendere, quindi, con tutti i sottotitoli i factori di lavoro, l'accoglianza, etc. We welcome the fact that the Green Part did well in Munich. They did not win Bavaria. They simply took the votes of the collapsing social democrats. The winners in Bavaria remain the forces of the right, the CESU together with the IFD. A crashing victory by them. Let us not forget that. Would we want to align ourselves with the Green Parties of Europe? Absolutely. We are in discussions with them. But I would answer the question in the same way that I would answer it if you were to ask me about the link about liberals, anti-systemic liberals by saying we're not interested in labels. We're interested in getting things done. So we put out a program which we call a new Green Deal for Europe. We make proposals about this investment program of 500 billion in green transition a year, every year for five years. We have a program for what to do with public debt, with the non-performing loans of the banks, with poverty, with democratization, and so on. It's a very comprehensive program. And we are inviting everyone to discuss it with us, not to accept it, to tell us where we are on and what we should do differently. And we wish that the Greens, the Left, liberals, progressive conservatives even, come to us and we can have this discussion in order to start tabula rasa a new progressive movement in Europe. This is our position and we're going to stick to it. On the question of humanism, humanism is inconsistent with electrified border fences. Full stop. So we have a question here and we have some more questions. So please keep your answers short. Sorry, your answer too bad. The question short, sorry. Hi, Yanis, it's Eric, regularly of the Globe and Mail of Canada. The Italian government insists it doesn't want to leave the euro. But my question is, do you believe them? Do they secretly, or not so secretly, want to leave the euro? And if they do, is it not a bad idea to do so in the sense that for 20 years since the introduction of the euro in Italy this country has been a corpse? It just hasn't worked for this country. Thank you. No, I don't believe them. What I do believe is that Mr. Salvini has chosen a two phase strategy. First beat up anti-migration rage, xenophobia before the European parliament elections in order to garner votes, but keep the euro question under wraps for now so that after the European parliament elections he can become prime minister and then go into phase two which will be not necessarily, there will be no referendum about the euro, anything like that, but cause a crisis that will make it a natural progression for Italy to forge a parallel currency that then is the precursor of something very much like Italian exit. This is my personal view but it's neither here nor there. The second question, would it be a good idea to get out of the euro? I have been very steadfast in my view on this regarding Greece, regarding Italy, regarding all eurozone member states and it is this. Some people think there is a contradiction in what I'm going to say. There is no contradiction. First we should not have entered the eurozone. Italy should not have entered the eurozone. Greece should not have entered the eurozone. We should not have created the eurozone. Not that the common currency would be a bad idea but this common currency with these rules, think about it. We created a central bank without the treasury to have its back and we have 19 treasuries without the central bank to look after national banking systems that they cannot ever save during a crisis. It was as if we created a monetary union designed to cause problems for our citizens. That's point number one. Point number two, we should not have a policy of exiting that terrible monetary union. Some people say a hundred seconds. You just said that we should not have entered it but now you're saying we should not exit it. Yes. Because it's one thing to say we should not have come in. It's quite another to say we should get out. It's not the same thing because once you get in, things change and getting out has a major cost for Europe as a whole, for Italy. It does not mean that we should not prepare a parallel currency. I prepared one when I was a minister. It does not mean that we should stay in the euro even if our countries collapse. No. It means that we should be prepared on the one hand to go to Brussels, to go to Berlin and put forward proposals for making changes to the eurozone that will allow Italy to breathe within it and at the same time prepare for exiting for the very simple reason that even the Buddhist bank is preparing for an exit of Germany because this is a very unstable courage. Thank you again. Is there a question over there? Yes. Sorry to bring you back to the Italian politics. Don't be sorry. This is why I'm here. Okay. Thank you. I want to ask you, in case of a crisis of the Italian government, what are the chances of Mr. Di Maio to be your partner and then do you see a default of Italy as a possibility? I'll start from the second part. I think a default will be unlikely. But there are ways of hair cutting debt that do not count as default. So for instance, one of the things that is not unlikely is that there will be, in the case of Italy, in Italian public debt, financial incentives for Italian savers to buy more bonds with tax breaks that clash with Brussels rules, for instance. A parallel currency would, if there was a redenomination of tax breaks, would also be an effective haircut that would not count necessarily as a default. But this is a theoretical discussion. What really matters is that we avoid this clash between this government and Brussels, a clash that is not leading to any improvement in the lives of Italians or the rest of Europe. On the first question that you asked, as I said, we are atheists who happen to be faithful in human nature if Mr. Di Maio drops out of this government and stops being the catch of Mr. Salvini and Cinque Stelle join again the ranks of humanist rational political forces. We would be welcoming them as well. But I do not see this happening. Every day they stay within this coalition. I believe Cinque Stelle is losing its soul. But have you been in conversation, for example, with Fico, the one who is considered on the left of the... We've been in conversation with many people, not with a particular person that you mentioned. At least not me. Maybe somebody from our movement has. Maybe I can ask one of our DM25 representatives here to answer the question. But this is not the issue. The issue is Cinque Stelle interested in reclaiming its position on the humanist side of politics. Thank you. There is another question over there. Yes. Go to... I'm Italian, and the Dutch Italian from Berlin. We know that you are going to meet as soon as possible in Benissander's. So we would like to know something about the international protagressista as we call. Thanks. Well thank you for the question, because this is something quite exciting. DM25 is not only Europeanist, or actually we are Europeanists because we are internationalists. Europe is a source of great instability for the rest of the world. We are causing serious problems for the rest of the world through our inability to solve our crisis. At the same time we have an American president who is determined to destabilize what is left of the stability of the world. And we have a complete failure of the west of the European Union and the United States to get their act together to deal with a global crisis which began in 2008 and which has not finished. I think that it has finished should reconsider their views. This is why we need to go beyond the limits of Europe. You see, the financiers are internationalists. They know how to bind together to make sure that the majority of people in every country bailes them out after they've made their huge errors. The fascists, the nationalists, the racists like Trump, Bannon, Zehoffer, Salvini are internationalists. They bind together magnificently. The only people who are failing are the progressives. So on the 30th of November Bernice Anders and I are going to be launching the progressive international in Vermont and we are going to make issue an open call to political forces from across Europe, from Africa, from Asia, from Latin America, from Central America, to join us. It is going to be a very difficult process but at least there is going to be a start. Thank you. Paddy? Paddy Agnew, Sony Independent. Professor, to change the theme slightly, Brexit, you say Salvini is working towards the disintegration of the European Union, but have Mr Farage and Boris Johnson started the job already. Do you feel that we are in a Brexit situation where the 27 countries say unless we get an Irish border resolution there'd be no deal? Do you think the 27 countries will hold together on that? Yes, but then the question is will London prefer no deal? No. We're holding a deal with the United Ireland to a United Ireland, because that's really the issue. I do believe that – and remember that DiEM25 is a movement with the presence in Ireland both the Republic and Northern Ireland and we are very proud of that. And we brought people together that they would not have been in the same movement if DiEM was not in Ireland. in un modo non secretario di un'Unità Unita. Il bordo non deve ripartere. L'accordo di Good Friday deve essere mantenuto e supportato. E l'Europa ha un ruolo a giocare. Ma facciamolo dire qualcosa di Brexit. You mentioned Mr. Johnson e Mr. Farage. They would never have succeeded to win the Brexit referendum if it was not for the incompetence of Brussels and Frankfurt in handling the inevitable crisis of the Eurozone between 2010 and 2016. And let me explain this. At the time when the financial world was collapsing between 2008 and 2010, the European Central Bank, completely hostage of its charter that was written by the Buddhist Bank, was shrinking the money supply while the Bank of England was boosting the money supply as if there is no tomorrow, the Bank of Japan, the Fed in the United States. The result was hundreds of thousands of Italians, Greeks, Spaniards, Portuguese moving to England. At a time when Mr. Osborne, the Tory party treasurer, was imposing austerity on the majority of the English people. So you have the refloating of the financial markets in England drawing people from the continent while British workers were being treated with austerity. That was a recipe for creating the Brexit movement. It was Brussels and Frankfurt's policies that gave rise to the disintegration of the European Union with Brexit. This is why DiEM25 is determined to clash with the Brussels establishment in order to save the European Union, in order to make sure that borders like the one between the Republic and Northern Ireland never come back. Buongiorno. Eva Giovannini, mezz'ora in più, volevo tornare sul tema sollevato prima dal collega della Russia. Ci sono sollecitazioni esplicite sia da parte di Washington che di Mosca verso il governo per andare dritto su questa manovra e si parla anche di possibili aiuti economici del Kremlin per comprare debito pubblico italiano, la cifra che gira a 6 miliardi. Voglio sapere da lei in termini politici che cosa significherebbe per noi italiani essere debitori verso Mosca e quindi per Mosca essere creditori verso l'Italia. Grazie. It is a very bad idea. Very bad idea. For two reasons. Firstly, Russia is bankrupt and the most they can do is buy 4% of their debt issuance for the next year. In the next year your debt issuance is 250 billion. If they choose to, they will buy 4% it's irrelevant so they can't help Italy. That's one reason. Secondly, you shouldn't want to be helped by Mr. Putin. The last thing we need in Europe in Italy is more dependence on Mr. Putin or indeed Mr. Trump for that matter. Remember, Mr. Trump e Mr. Putin are united by a wish to see a Europe that is disintegrating and becoming more reactionary and more right wing and more fascistic. This is why we are here. We are here because we need to fight against Mr. Putin, against Mr. Trump, against the brusset establishment that is making Mr. Salvini powerful enough to be playing these games against Mr. Trump and Mr. Putin. Plus, I remember something similar promised to Greece, right? I mean, Russia also promised to buy Greek bonds some years ago. I've written about this in my last book which exists in Italian, adults in the room and I explained why I was the one member of the Greek cabinet under Mr. Tsipras who effectively vetoed any discussion with Putin on us being helped by Russia against our struggle with the trike. For the same reasons that I are outlining here I refuse to even go to Moscow along with Mr. Tsipras in the end, of course Mr. Putin did exactly as I predicted and said to Mr. Tsipras we're not going to help you. Okay, do you need the final translation? Do you? It's okay. So, Yanis Varfakis, thank you again very much for being here thank you to you all Thank you. That's it. Everything was okay? I'm glad you're happy.