 We're going to call the meeting to order at one minute after five, according to our faithful clock, and we have a whole bunch of guests, so why don't we introduce ourselves and then ask them to introduce themselves. Sorry for the people. Liz Sharp, Middlesex Select Board. Peter Hood, Middlesex Select Board. Derinda Kroll, Town Treasurer. Steve Martin, Middlesex Select Board. Phil Hay, Select Board. Mary Skinner, Select Board. Gianna Cotito, Wendyski Conservation District. Lee Rossgird, Conservation Commission. George Longener, Middlesex Conservation Commission. Bill McManus, President. Pat McManus, Taxpayer. Sarah. Oh, Sarah Merriven, Select Board Assistant and Town Clerk. Okay, thank you all. And do we have any amendments to the agenda? No. Okay, so with that, we have the Wendyski Natural Resources Conservation District with a presentation. Yes. Great, thank you. Thanks for putting time on your agenda for me to present. Just, I wanted to get one sentence. Have you folks worked with Conservation District before? Do you know who we are and what we do? That doesn't occur to remind us briefly. Yes. Sure. So there's 14 conservation districts across the state. The Wendyski one covers all of Chittany County, Washington County and three towns of Orange. We were formed after the dust bowl in 1940 time. And, yep, before Clean Water Act, the EPCA, all that jazz. We have a broad charge to manage or promote the wise use of natural resources in the district. We do a range of work. Some of it's working with farmers, managing their fertilizer runoff. Some of it's working with landowners to put trees next to their streams, working with towns to put rain gardens in, things like that. So I'm new to this position. I started in October and I'm here to chat with you about some projects that started in sex by my predecessor. And they were working with Conservation Commission and they had some history on it. I wanted to sort of give you some progress updates on it and address any questions you folks might have. So there's two projects going on. The first one I wanted to chat with you about is something we're calling Shady Real Road, 30% design, which we've contracted with Storm Environmental to help us with. So Shady Real Road alongside Martin's Brook has some stormwater issues. Most of the issues right now are kind of coming off of the Remney School property and kind of channeling down this in size channel into Martin's Brook and kind of bringing along with it a lot of sediment, a lot of phosphorus. And so my predecessor secured some funding to do a preliminary design, 30% design to figure out what is sort of causing that and what are some possible solutions that we can then get funding for to implement in that area. So we started the project just recently and we had a sort of stakeholder launch meeting where we brought in the Conservation Commission, leave us there. We met with the school because on their property, the school district, not the school district, what's that called? Washington Supervisory Unit was there, the Basin Planner for the area, Stone Environmental, so we sort of reviewed what were the issues, what are we looking at, and how are we going to move forward. Stones on their merry way right now sort of looking, it's hard to sort of assess a lot with snow on the ground, but they're using some LiDAR and things to learn a bit more about the area. We'll have a middle of the term stakeholder meeting to figure out what they've learned and then identify some solutions to get to a 30% design. Has this changed since they did that with the new building? Remember they put in that little water, the rain garden or something like that. Is this as a result of that or is this something? It's not a result of that, if anything, that should help mitigate the problem, but one change that has been made in the last few years was the installation of a culvert up near the sharp corner across from the bandstand, and that's taken a lot of the water that would have run into the rain garden, put it across the road, and has been sizing a channel or eroding a channel across the field near the septic mound of the school and then running off over the bank. There's a gully that's formed, it's been there for several years, but last spring the runoff was really doubled that gully in size, and one of the fears is it's threatening the actual infrastructure of the septic mound. Wow. Did we know that was going to happen? So refresh my, I'm sorry Mary, go ahead. I mean, when they put the gully, when they put the culvert in, did we know that was going to be a potential problem? I'm not sure if it was considered in that culvert design. My memory is that it was strongly recommended that we put that culvert in and divert that water over there. I'm not sure whether it was the conservation commissioner who it was or some water resources person, but there was way too much water running down along the road down to where the rain garden was, and that was put in to divert some of that water. Now, I don't remember the details of that. Does anybody here remember the details of that? Wasn't that long ago? It wasn't that long ago. It was when we were paving the road, right? We put that culvert in. Yeah. Three years. Yeah. Okay. So I did share with you at least a map of the area. So if you wanted to get a sense of what we're talking about, this is the school here north of it is sort of this is where their septic is on the field. The water is rushing, it actually downhill is north. So it's rushing downhill. The culvert I think is this area, right? It's right at the corner. So that you can sort of start to see there's a bit of a process or a channel going here and then the erosion of the gully is sort of right here. So Stone right now is sort of looking not just what can they do here at the gully, but they are kind of looking a little bit at the town garage. Thank you. The town garage area. What are some possible solutions that could be there? What are some possible solutions that might happen along the road? One thing that I know that Amy McCrellis is the individual at Stone who's the project lead on this, and she'd love to chat maybe with you Steve at some point because I think there might be some road erosion inventory work happening along Story Road. They don't know the solutions yet. It's pretty preliminary, but one of the things they might consider is diverting some of the water down that way. That road, because it's a less steep way down to the creek here than right here. It gets super steep here. Wait, we don't see the creek on ours, I don't think. We don't see the creek. The creek is very... Yeah, but look at our... Oh, I guess it wasn't... Just like this. Yeah, so it kind of crosses from the left to right across your sheet. The parallel sheet. And I'm sorry if it chopped off of your map. And you can see a little bit right up there. So the problem is that it's going down into here and there's runoffs in all this area. There's runoff, the erosion of that thing can also potentially cause the stability of that entire side of the hill. Where's our septic on this map? Septic is right here. That's what I thought. Yeah. And there is personal property here, private property here and here and a couple... This is the house in Le Barn. That's a pentagon house. Who used to own it before? Peter, who used to own it before? Peter the Prenner gas property. I can't think of anything. You can't think of anything. Okay. It used to be the story's place. The old days. It was the story's place, right? There? Yeah, no. I don't think. Oh, this is the schoolhouse. Right. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. Okay. So... Schoolhouse from Phoebe. Morris. Okay. So that's sort of the scope of the work right now. At the first stakeholder meeting, we did identify these private owners, which I'll be doing some outreach to, to let them know and invite them to the midterm meeting to see what feedback they have on the designs. Amy will be reaching out to you. I think to chat about the story piece of it. Yeah. But really, we're just here, and we have some background to address that there's other questions that you folks have as we move forward on the project. I think we have this section here, the drainage area of one impervious moment. So all of this, my understanding is that all of this feeds into that gully. Right. The drainage area is basically the basin where any surface water would run off into the gully. And then the hatched area is impervious surface. Roads. So it's building. It's parking lots. It won't allow for infiltration. Building, rooftops, all of that. So Stone will really look at those areas and see if there's some way of managing the runoff from impervious surfaces near those areas. Settlement basins and that type of thing. So it's really, when you're done with what you're doing here, it just gives us guidance, really. It's not actual work that will be done. It's just telling us what work should be done. Implementation work. Exactly. So this is going to get to something called the 30% design. And that usually lines us up for a couple different funding options. One of which is the Ecosystem Restoration Program or a block grant that districts have access to. And so then we can apply for either just final design or final design and implementation from there. But we're a little bit of a ways out from that. What's a little ways? This is this year. So we wouldn't be doing 100% design or implementation until at the earliest next year. And implementation would happen over the summer. So 2020 summer is very, very early. It kind of depends if we get funding for it. What are the results of this? Are there good solutions that make sense? Depending on the funding, it changes every round with the ERP funding. Match is required or not required. And so if they say if you're going to implement something and you need a 20% match from the town, then that becomes a conversation with the town about what they can offer as match. And that actually feeds into what I wanted to chat with you folks about for the other project. But I won't jump there yet. So in time would be allowed for a match? Depends on the funding source, but most usually yes. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. How did you guys get involved in this? Did you please, did you guys contact them? We were contacted by the district by Gianna's predecessor as she asked for a letter of support for the 30% design part of the project. And we discussed it and at that time I had brought it to the select board. I think you also provided a letter of support for the design. But I mean you came to us. Not middle sex going to the district. Right. The district contacted middle sex. Okay. Thanks. Which I think goes sometimes both ways. We try to build relationships with conservation commissions to say if you have a project let us know. But we also spend time scoping out things that have been identified in river quarter plans or the basin plan for Lewinowski. And if they've said for example Martin Brook is impaired sediment, we might scope that out and see what are some possible projects that could happen along there. So I don't exactly know how Karina ended up with this project but there's different ways she could have identified it. Any other questions on this one? Okay. So to move on to the other one this we're calling, cookies and enough shady real picnics, right? So you might have some background in this so a 30% design was just completed for the shady real picnic site. And so this is a long shady real road. Something if you're looking for what it might look like I shared with you the final report. Oh you know what I didn't put that out if you want me to. It is many pages. So you can look at it later if you don't necessarily need to have access to it. So my predecessor was contracted with watershed consulting associates and said how can we look at this picnic area where there's a lot of erosion, a lot of access going into the creek and sort of address the water quality issue. They came up with some possible solutions and I think met with the conservation commission and picked one to move to 30% They met with me and Karina and they chose kind of the middle ground. There were three designs. One was very basic. One was the middle ground and the other one was the Cadillac plant. We went with the Honda Civic which basically addressed the major issues which was the erosion on the bank, floodplain restoration and also removal of the sediment plug. There's different channels of water it could take during a high water storage one of those main channels as you go kind of south of the main picnic area is blocked up with sediment maybe from the gully up the stream. So water doesn't take that course and it focuses the energy and causes more erosion, higher flows in the one channel that's not blocked. So we saw that as a good way to dissipate the energy during flood events so that we're not increasing the sedimentation or right spill reservoir. So the kind of scope of the work, yeah sure, sorry it's double, it's a pretty small font. So the scope of the work in this option too that was pushed to a 30% design was the removal of the sediment plug and creating four hardened access points into Martin's Brook because we recognize that that is a recreational site people like to go there so this would be sort of like stone steps and paths to sort of direct people let's take these down into the brook it won't erode the bank one would be ADA compliant Wow ADA compliant That's a good idea and then buffering the rest of it with plantings to put in enough buffer of plantings to really stabilize the brook we actually need to move the road over the access road over a little bit So I have a question about that Sure And I understand the issue where the road because it's raised up is blocking the capability of water to flow across I mean wouldn't it be more cost effective to do that with culverts rather than move the whole road So the movement of the road is to allow space for plantings So the road It's kind of both It's the planning and it's acting as a levy so it reduces the flood storage capacity of the site so you're right I just, when I looked at it I thought wow we're going to move that whole road that's going to be a lot of money If it's for flood capacity it's not regular flow it would seem to me some culverts would would do that that's just a thought the way to keep the cost down I don't know how much I didn't I looked at that whole thing very quickly but I didn't get a sense of what percentage was the movement of the road and what percentage was the planning so maybe that was in there and I just didn't see it You read this already Peter? What percentage of the budget? Yeah, it's a good question There is a budget now there and I'd have to go back and refer to it as to what A good chunk of that's got to be moving that road I think it was about 17,000 Okay, this is a pretty fancy little entrance way Yeah Yeah, there were about 17,000 there but the whole thing was 67 Yeah, it's not it's not an inexpensive budget So my other question I don't know if this is the time to ask it so that is not the town, that's the state right so this is just information for us It's a little bit of both Just checking There was some suspicious talk about us taking over that I've had some very interesting conversations the last few weeks scoping this out to see what it would take to get this to 100% design and or implementation So My understanding and I could be way off on this Is town interest in this site? It's used It's a value to the town It is owned by the state It is under the management oversight of the dam's safety division So this is the town So all of these players need to be involved in this conversation because any funding source that will fund this project wants to know who is actually taking over operations and maintenance long term Do they have the funding for that long term and do they know what they're doing Do they agree to do that That's exactly our concern Absolutely And we were ready to do it and then all of a sudden at the last minute the rug gets pulled out from under us We don't want to have a rug It was a good thing It was a good thing I understand but the rug could come back To my knowledge that was never finally resolved as to who was going to be responsible for maintaining that long term The state committed to do it for what two years Wait Peter, I got to do a point of information Okay, alright We actually got a call from not the head of the dam but somebody from ANR who had clarified that the state was under a permanent contract with the Who are the guys who dug the Brightsville What were they called again The Army Corps of Engineers to maintain that imperpatuity Yeah, I thought we had So there was no I spoke with Ben Green at the dance mission He's aware of that, they know that They would love the town to take it over But they told us we had to And then we found that contract And it did convey to them that I don't think that there's a lot of interest there I was trying to make sure we're all on the same page So One thing I did learn through a lot of these calls is that it'd be really important to get all these people in a room And so what I did and one of the things I shared with you is I submitted an application for just to get to 100% design To get to implementation this year did require a match So we'll chat a bit about what we were considering for match We were thinking about in kind roads crew work from the town to move the road as the match But I heard from Paul that they're just too busy and they couldn't even put it in their plan for the summer So we tabled that and said well let's at least get it to 100% design So it's lined up and ready to apply for implementation funding in the future So this application that I applied for just I think last week It's to a block grant that the districts are able to apply to So I'm only competing against other districts So I'm feeling pretty confident we'll get it but I don't know But I wrote into this stakeholder meetings So forget the funding the first thing I'm going to do is bring the town into the room bring the dams division into the room bring rights fill into the room I have the contract out for the engineer so bring the engineer into the room and say okay this is what we know so far at the 30% what are some things that might have missed the last conversation because I did have some conversations with you and not Barbara There were some other things of interest of the town in terms of what this design should or could include in terms of blocking off access to other parts of the park but being aware of parking limitations So I think that there's a lot of questions on that front not just on the operations and maintenance front So I've written that into the grant and that will be something that if we do get it I'll be reaching out to all partners and saying can we get in this room can we converse on that But a big pending question as this moves to implementation is what can we find for a match from the local level even though the property is owned by the state they want to see funders like to see that there's local interest and draw and what could that match be So I've been brainstorming a little bit with Lee about this and I think we've got if we get this funding we've got the year to figure that out and so this was I've been trying to track down Paul I figure he's probably really busy with snow removal right now so I haven't really gotten any sense from him but one thing I wanted to float maybe at the stakeholder meeting maybe hearing back from you through communications is that is it feasible to ride into the 2020 work plan for the Rose crew some work on this road and count that as match Other match options are bringing in members for the plantings piece of it and counting that time Other match that I'm counting into it is any of the time that the conservation commission people are participating or really anyone of the town is participating in the stakeholder meetings that's match and counting there So I just I'm sorry but I want to be clear so you're looking to us solely for match or are you looking at all these partners to share in the match it's kind of a weird thing because the so the state would be a funder so asking for a match from them is kind of going to be a weird I'm not quite sure how it will operate and I don't I'm going to ask for more guidance from the basin planner on that piece of it okay because one of our one of our concerns is that that is used by lots of folks from center Vermont not just people from metal sex how to use more by people outside of metal sex than in metal sex right so it just seemed to what and I'm I'm just trying to remember the conversations we haven't we discussed this before but one of our concerns was hey why should it be all us we're definitely interested I would never say that we wouldn't provide some kind of match I think probably we would but to ask us to do all a match I would be pushing back to some of the other surrounding communities and looking for them to participate and maybe the way to do it is is through rights fell I mean there's I don't know but certainly I think we would be reluctant to be responsible for the entire match I guess what I'm saying and we've never voted on that we've never made a decision on it but just trying to remember the history that was our concern yeah and that's useful to hear and I think that I've heard some of that as well coming into this conversation and I think that'll be useful to bring I think that's why I really wanted to budget in these meetings because I think that getting at one of the tables really useful and being upfront about what people are expecting to because I do know that we're going to be asking of rightsful at least long-term operations and maintenance costs I know if we do plantings that'll be coming from our budget and our time for fine volunteers if we can get other commissions or other towns involved that would be great and so brainstorming with you folks about who you think would be really engaged or interested in that and then the beyond the match the rest of it's coming from the state so that's kind of everyone funding it in some ways right maybe when you're doing that you should ask the people on the Winooski on the Riceville project who they would recommend they must have some statistics on what percentage of people from the town I believe we had some statistics somebody gave us I remember we had who's our person Jane she did tell us some stuff when she came but I mean there's a convenient way to reach out to the surrounding communities they're on the throes of increasing their my pillar is part of that right? because there's a lot of people from my pillar at that part yeah so I think it's worth asking those questions and I think it's worth knowing the feasibility of finding getting those matches because I think if other towns are saying this is in your town and it's most servicing you folks and no one else is interested then this won't really be a vital project if it requires match from the implementation phase so I think understanding what middle sex is willing to put forward this match and what's feasible will be helpful as a percentage what would the match likely be do you know the block grant right now requires a 20% match for non MS4 communities there's a rumor can you just tell me what an MS4 community is middle sex is a non MS4 so MS4 is the towns that have to do like their own separate storm sewer system thank you chicken county I just want to be able to put in the minutes there's a rumor that the new block grant requires no match for MS4 communities but I can't guarantee that and I don't know what implementation funding sources will look like lady do you agree that redoing the road like that yes I think that's one of the biggest benefits of the project is to restore the flood storage capacity it looks pretty not middle sexy it looks over the top it looks like a state park it looks better than a state park it looks like the entrance to a zoo or something well there you go it's a drastic part I mean it just looks so it's so fancy I mean my god it'll be a gravel road much like the one that exists but look at it it's gorgeous it's a picture for a few years Mary they won't look like that I can guarantee it's not going to be whoever's maintaining it isn't going to be maintained like the White House garden it's going to be nice for the people to live near it they won't need to have their own garden are there other questions about this project or concerns about it so the timing we're thinking this is a year away at least yeah so this is if I get the funding we'll do a hundred percent thirty percent thank you too many shady real projects a hundred percent design this spring and summer and have an initial meeting and an afterwards meeting of okay what is the hundred percent design are we happy with what that included or not included are we happy with who's taking on operation and maintenance are we happy with some of these match ideas what's applied for implementation funding so that's what we're going to do if it starts four one nineteen that's what we would do let's do this next step getting all the stakeholders at the table my first thing on four one nineteen would be a request for quotes or proposals from the different consulting groups like STONE or Watershed Consulting Associates and other folks like that so that I've never gone through that with this organization yet so I'm assuming it'll probably take about a month giving them time to put together their proposals review them choose one six weeks five or six weeks because you're going to want to give folks a couple three weeks to respond to put it together and pick one and get in touch with them and get a contract and schedule a start up usually six weeks so mid-May to early June is one of the stakeholder meetings yeah I have that's your coffee I think oh no that's my coffee enjoy it I think we do I'm not going to I know but I don't read things like that it's too long to read that and I've had other questions anyone thank you very much okay great thanks for your time look forward to working with you folks if we get it thanks for coming I don't think we got your name oh I'm sorry I'm Amy McCrellis with STONE and DiamondMental I thought that we were starting at 5.30 and I didn't look at the updated agenda so I'm totally lame but I was here in case there were any questions about the shady row upper watershed project that we're just embarking on I do have one question for you so I remember three years ago we put that culvert in the cross culvert or the smaller one the one at the corner which is causing the problem and I thought maybe I'm wrong that STONE Environmental was involved in recommending us to put that culvert there to reduce the amount of water that was coming down the road and going to where the perspective water garden was going to be I mean it doesn't matter now it's just concerning to me that we thought we were doing a good thing when we put that culvert in looks like we did a bad thing well maybe not the same water is ultimately coming to the same place which is off the edge of the bank down to the martinsbrook so you distributed the flow a little bit more before it gets to that big cross culvert and takes the turn and goes off the edge of the bank in terms of the leech field that may not be the best idea ever but I think there's that's why we're back and the big picture we spent a lot of time on the runoff coming through the elementary school because there was a time-sensitive opportunity there with the renovation that was going on at the school and I think we all suspected that we would be back because that was about 15% of the total drainage area that's coming to the head of the school okay, thank you and if I could take a moment to do an introduction this is Steve Martin I didn't catch everyone's name I'm so sorry I don't fill head Steve Martin Peter Hood and I wanted to just introduce to you because I know you've been wanting to connect with him about story road so I wanted you to have a face to name thank you ok, thanks guys thank you so much for your time thank you that's a sales tax they're not taxed exempt here are they I don't know I don't think they'd be taxed here I don't know thank you We're talking about the sheriffs now, but you know the party department has some big sales tax. There's a big sales tax there. I mean, March saw him go off on it. I know, but I just wondered why were they after me? I'll send an email. I thought you were talking about the sheriffs. No, I said it, but why are you concerned about that? It's because I got a call from the sheriffs department asking if they could monitor a part of just briefly Route 12, even though it's a state highway, because they got so many complaints from people in Putnamville, and they said, yeah. And that's the bill. It must be. I was just curious about the bill or doing some enforcement activity with the bill. He said we're getting a lot of complaints about people speeding over Route 12. I know it's a state road, and I'm meant to talk to you about it, but I forgot. Can we put that under other business? Can we have Lee? Yeah, we can. Sorry to take up your whole meeting here. We've had a discussion with Central Vermont Regional Planning Commission. There was just a big tactical basin planning effort done, and looking at the Winooski watershed and identified part of that work was identifying outstanding water resources and brooks and waterways that have great attributes that should be reclassified under a new scheme that the state has, and they've identified parts of Herrick and Martin Brook as having outstanding, basically, trout hatchery streams. There's a really healthy trout population, and the upper reaches of those, and they want to reclassify from just kind of a normal waterway to this, hey, this has good biota in it. What that does would, there's really no action that the town would have to take, but it would allow the town to put extra protections on the sections of the river if somebody purchased land and wanted to build a house. You could look at the setback from the stream or the proximity of a driveway to the stream and take that into consideration during a zoning review, things like that. Right now the reaches, look at this map if you want, it's numbers 10 and 11 right here. It's mainly the headwaters of those streams that more or less fall within the Hunger Mountain Headwaters Project, so that lands already protected anyway. As time goes on, the state might do additional monitoring and downstream or other water bodies in the town and suggest reclassifying them right now. Those are the stretches of rivers. I'm all for the trap, but I am not all for the state putting additional restrictions on R. The state doesn't put restrictions on R. It can allow for the town, if the town wants to put something in the zoning laws. So this doesn't mean that by reclassifying this somehow the state is taking over responsibility for... No, they monitor all these streams anyway for fish, turbidity, phosphorus loading, different indicators of the stream's health and they're going to continue to do that work regardless if this is reclassified. They might say, hey, the health of this stream is failing, what's going on, but there's no statue... But it's the headwaters, it's not down below where people are swimming. I think it gets down close to Story Road. Where's Herrick? Herrick is Parallels, Martins, Brook, and it crosses... I don't know if it's Shadybill or Molly Superl. What's that number? I can't tell on here. Yeah, Herrick Parallels, Martins, Brook, and it actually comes into Martins, Brook. It's that box culvert under Government Hill Road. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the box culvert right there from Shadybill that we put in four years ago. So, just to clarify for the minute, this might give the opportunity for the zillion to affect those areas designated... There's just a follow-up on Peter's comment. Not all of Martins, Brook, or Herrick could just be built a particular part of Martins, Brook. Yeah, those areas designated as what's called B-1 fishing. B-1 fishing, okay. But like I said, they might do monitoring in the future and have other indicators that, you know, there might be aquatic biota or, you know, the fish of... After we do all these great projects on Shadybill and maybe the fish take up in the pools downstream and they might suggest reclassifying longer lengths of the stream and we can decide as a town whether or not to accept that. So what you need from us is the okay for this reclassification? Or is it just going to happen? Well, he said we could. With or without us? With or without us. No, I think I need your approval. Oh, I thought you said it didn't matter. And the Conservation Commission is recommending this to us. Questions? Board members? I'll move approval. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor of the motion, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Do I get a wording for that motion? Permit the reclassification of the fishing areas on Martins Creek and Hereford? Sounds...that's exactly what I said. Where is my house on this? Do you know where I live? I live in Farmore. Where are my brooks? This is a big map. This is like all of... This isn't no sex... This is like... This is no sex... The Red Zones... Don't... Don't publish this in this paper. This is a big river... This is a big river... I don't want to get the names. I'm not... It's one of the baths we had around here. I think it's called the Hatterson Baths. I thought this was all no sex... There's so many brooks here. I've seen a lot of starters. Yeah, I got it. Thanks. I want to keep that. This big one? Sure. Thanks, George. I only got a little. I've never heard of that. I know it's not yours. Well, thank you. So I think you're all set. Thank you for your time. But you wore a lot of the agenda, Lee. No. For frequent. Little chunks. Thanks for all your work down this. Those minutes sent to anybody is proof that you've got the approval of the select board. So I'm going to suggest that since Fred Connor is here, that we... So are Patty and Bill. Oh, and they're here for the signing? Yeah. All right, follow our agenda then. So improving signage at the corner of Frank Culver and Government Hill roads actually possible. I also included the note from Patty down in your package. So what's the proposal? Well, we have other things to discuss, but this may not be the meeting to do it at. Might take a little bit more time. Not sure. You're only warned for this. What's the proposal? That we're going to say action likely. But he has signed it probably. Okay, this one from Penny? Yeah. So people using Government Hill road. Yeah. Yeah. You did it? Oh, okay. I'll go get that for you. Sorry. That's from Penny to us. Oh, Penny. We got one, sir. I'll take one back if you may know another one. I gave mine away. What am I? Just have that one. Thank you. I know, right? Yeah. Someone came here, but it wasn't you guys. Someone came here a few meetings ago talking about this. We did talk about it. Someone came, I guess, I thought. I think it was Penny. I don't know. I agree with you. That's why I was really surprised when she said, you know, I told Sara and she did a slip and they didn't do anything about it. I'm pretty sure we talked about it. I thought we did talk. Or maybe not. Maybe you just talked about it. We talked about this for the last two to three years. The sign had been missing for two to three years. The French road. Yeah. We complained about the intersection in the south when they were coming down to Culver Hill. We were coming up to Culver Hill turning left on the French road. They don't even know there's an intersection. They didn't tell her on top of it. Right. 30 to 35 mile an hour speed limit coming down that hill. You're almost at the intersection. You guys are right there. You're seeing it every day. And they hit the trees when they come around the corner too much. They hit telephone pole. I've taken several people home because they couldn't get the car out. And people are always asking where's French road. But there's no indication of any intersection or anything from any of the directions. Yeah, but the dangerous one, the blind one is when you're coming from Culver Hill. It's blind because it's left. Because of the speed. Right. And that used to be a T intersection but we won't get into that. It was a total T. I grew up there. My parents built that house on the corner. Been there forever. And there's a big rock. If you're coming up French road toward the intersection there's a big rock right there on government. And that was our focal point. That was the middle of the road. Everything else came down and intersected. And of course for those of us who live in the area it's not a big deal. We know when to slow down. I said to my brother Mike Patterson Mike you couldn't take this corner at 35. This is last summer. He tried it. He said oh dear god. Oh it's so frightening. Oh my god. He said if I didn't know that corner there's no way. No way I could take it at 35. So you're proposing like a sign as you come from Culver Hill Road somewhere between like Sioux I don't know what intersection ahead or some sort of like curb ahead. Well intersection notification that we have many intersections throughout the state. And then also though probably a sign that says Reduce Speed. Or that says French Road and one that says Government Hill Road. Well there's one to Government Hill there's a sign there. Where is that sign? On the left as you come up Government Hill right at the intersection. On the left if you come I don't think I've ever driven up. So if you're coming down Culver Hill Road it's going to be on the right going down. So you'd want to have like a sign probably across from you so people can see it and it says French. There was one there. And you said that was three years ago? Two or three. There's one on the other side of French isn't there? There's the danger Oh you really should have one coming down French Road too to turn right. Oh yeah we've seen cars miss. There's been one that went straight. We're going to go around. Well yeah so then you'd also need a Culver Hill Road sign because that's when you're coming from French. Well there is one on Culver Hill but you really can't see it until you're on it. Really I don't remember. I don't know if you know my house you know our house where the fence is by the Culver Hill Road. I can't really see Culver Hill. I don't remember seeing that sign. See there you go. But anyway it's a dangerous corner. It is. I had talked with Paul about this actually twice and we need to we need to get some signs up here but in our sign package that we're doing I'm not sure where this falls into are new signs that we're going to go up but this could be included in this year's signs because we had it split into five years for replacing all the signs anyway. So how many would you propose based on would you just would you do like something like the curves like those arrows You do the curve that shows but there's actually three roads at that intersection so the roads change. If it was treated as a curve then you would if you were extending on Culver Hill just coming down two feet. Which brings me to another point it's almost like Culver and French are now one because they went faint and that has changed over the years which we've discussed also taking our continue to take our land as they make that corner wider almost every year I remember you guys came in the talk almost every year because it's a little shorter should there be should there be a stop sign at the top I mean if the reality is that that's the through road then there should either be a yield sign or a stop sign at the top of Government Hill when you're coming up there's been a tough space to yield you can treat that a little differently you could put a sign there a stop sign and stating that traffic coming up Government Hill doesn't stop there's several ways of approaching that no I got it because I would think that coming up Government Hill that's one you don't want to stop at I was thinking the same thing because you don't want to be slipping back down it flattens out when you get up it does flatten out but it's it's not the steep part I'm not going to tell the right there at the top yeah yeah yeah what would it take to change or to combine Culver and French one road who does that, how would that even happen if it seemed like that would that impact me? oh my god I'm just saying that right now it is one the reason we're all the reason we're all reminiscing is when we've got into these issues of changing road names you know people who've lived down the roads forever they wanted to say this you know it's just a horn that's why we have so many bare swamps there's no good answer I think the GPS also tells you like it does tell you when you're going down Culver says you know change it if you use one if you're out of town and you're using if it's becoming one road maybe there should be a stop on the main road whatever you call it if there were going to be a stop the stop would have to be on I think at this point because people aren't going to follow it look at the intersection down on Montpelier people still don't stop there and it's a four-way stop and people just plow right through I think you have to have it on government what are you talking about the one by Kerch House Salon people just blow through it and so I don't see people stopping especially coming up the hill people don't stop at the center road Brook Road intersection either they blow right through that stop well I don't know I always stop there most people don't there's always somebody and you don't know if they're going on the center road on the Brook Road but they come in a lot of speed I mean I think we agree that exactly what we're agreeing to I don't know but I think we need to look into it figure it out we agree on more signage definitely it's a safety issue exactly what that signage would be I guess we've got to think about a little bit and get back to you and the speed limit would be included in this the speed limit 35 you can't take that corner at 35 that's the only way you can do that is for a stop sign three stop signs but can't you do one of those yellow curve signs that say 25 or whatever no I know I mean he has to be slower than 35 do a reduced speed sign but I think we have a problem from the general we have to do a study before we change it before you can change that speed limit I mean if we can change the speed limit believe me it would be 25 by the farm that's why we leave those potholes there yeah who's in charge the state not the state but let us see if we can come up with something for a solution let's get some signs up and make it safer as a first as a first sign it's the same thing going down by my house on that curve every winter people smash into our mailbox on culver hill road at the white farm houses you go down the curve people smash into the mailboxes every year about twice a year they don't see the curve coming and they just well maybe we should put some curve signs down there too Steve I think I've asked we could put some speed bumps on my road to slow them down below 60 I wanted to put a granite post up I'm like I don't think that's a good idea we don't want to kill anyone well I'm telling you coming around our reporter we thought we'd put boulders up all the way around you're not the first person who saw that but what happened to the one over by Romney school where they thought it was a little anti-social is what I think do you guys want to focus on the agenda for a future meeting let me get with Paul and go through this thing a little bit and come up with a recommendation and we'll get it back on contact them thank you very much thanks for listening to all the stuff I'd like to have some time in the future to discuss the encroachment at the intersection over the last several years oh you know what your property is is the encroachment outside of our right-of-way might keep saying just move it just move it okay based on my measurements from the center of the road okay we can look at that yes we used to have a property marker in the road and that's been eliminated okay we can definitely look at that because we don't like to do that it's bad practice we discussed it once before and I thought we had solved it didn't you guys put up a fence at one point they put some reflectors up and every year they get taken out and they don't replace them what do they do I always like to joke they did this but that's something for another time well I would say we're on it maybe you don't need to come back when we get it one more thing then because of the way the road is banked now over the last several years when the water when it rains really hard the water streams down in that turn here and it takes out our driveway I can see that because of the way the road is banked now and that's because of the way we are bringing the road there's a look at that while we're on the road okay Steve's on it we're out of here thank you no problem so just quickly I would like to remind all of us that we agreed to look at the molly suple center road east hill road whatever it is sythia martin brought to our attention and I'm not aware we've ever done anything about that we had several recommendations but it's all in the letter isn't it we said we would maybe it's the same time we'll revisit that too I just made a meeting of the signs when we don't follow through all of us who live here don't have any problems but we're not the only people using the roads so here's the classic thing if you really want to be scared come to my house right to the village guess what it tells you that's what Waze tells you I can't believe that Penny is saying that they take her all the way from Montpelier past culverine hill road going up government hill road that's not even faster that's out of the way but I want to know where the hell is Penny down getting people from other countries to stay at her Airbnb some people come from from all different countries and they want to stay in the country I'm just shocked I think we need to start practicing the Airbnb it should be oh yeah okay well Mr. Connor you are on welcome you all know I don't know where the Airbnb has met you and I've turned 50 so I've forgotten oh that's the excuse they all use I know some of you until those I don't glad to meet you she's our youngest member too we're easy we're easy on the rest of us gaining you're catching up so Fred you're up appreciate your time I brought a very brief history of the assemblies that my brothers and I have done over at the north west corner of exit 9 and it's three parcels it's the former Ryan estate which came from Merriam which came from Ward now and that was the house that we moved and then there was the Donald Pierce site which he thought he might build an electrical shop at many years ago and that was a parcel that was open land next awards closer to the house bordering the state complex and that came from more recently Papineau and McKinstry and then the Sky Barsh's house which is the house that we currently rent the house and that came from hand and Papineau and McKinstry so that's the more recent history from our title reports the nap farm as I understand it was actually built by Cyrus Mead I think that might be the name of one of the breads down at Red Hen Bakery you're right Cyrus Pringle sorry different name same first name which is fairly unusual somebody that grew grain anyway the farm which is referred to as the nap farm was built by Cyrus Mead and later an ancestor his George Mead traded it for a property in Wattown so we're asking what the wards thoughts are about a change in the name and I don't really know a lot about Ward I was born in 1892 and I haven't been able to through some search and find out exactly who Ward Nap remembers Ward Nap Ward Nap remembers Sonny Nap lives down the street I mean Fred if you just come to see our town clerk you would know Ward Nap was also wasn't his farm his house on the front or at least in the book that the circle society did Ward Nap has a long history here can I borrow that no I'll just you have two copies and they're precious you let me lock the door then I'll just stay here and read it do you have any 8.30 to 4.30 Monday through Thursday come in another time just come in and see our oxen okay Liz do you know where you have the property he owns oh it's all that stuff beyond the park no it's so sad you took that house down it used to be the only pink house in the middle sense it was in pretty tough shape it was in such tough shape we couldn't get if we have to take a house down we try to deconstruct it and save every part and piece and donate it to resource or restore and they couldn't they didn't want to go into their monesuits it was just such mold and mildew it wasn't a healthy thing secret so this trumps my history I'd say it's not a critical request for my brothers where is the road that you want to have changed it's Nap Road which we're now the sole occupant isn't that the old route 2 it is the old route 2 it's a pretty unique situation I assumed it was named Nap Road when I-89 came in which caused route 2 to be moved and then this Nap Road is part of the route 2 roadbed but it just sort of ends at that house it's just ends there and it used to skirt the house at the same grade as the house but route 2 to be better horizontal geometry was raised up and where is that in your history Fred we didn't throw that out no we didn't do anything we did not did we downgraded it yes we did that was one of the roads okay so we don't plow ahead of minor we just so Fred is this a trail you to you're putting up some giant sign that's gonna say Connor Pass on the new Connor Pass ready for building you know like you do on route 2 no we will be looking at doing a street sign name change but who's gonna look at that I mean when you're driving back and forth again it's not a critical request and I'm gonna have to come back and see Sharon read this book about war itself I don't know part of me feels like there's some history and like to change like knowing what the history is about from that specific area is there's a reason not to change it but the history is recent nap like how oh 1960 probably when the interstate went in that was the first name that was the first name the road ever had besides being route 2 once there came a road I believe so I mean I don't know so at the time he would have been around 70 born in 1892 it's like the reason that it was named that way to commemorate someone and now we're now we're taking away well-known historically we have cooperated with people who want to change the name of the roads when they especially when they own all the land or if everybody owns the land agrees yep well is it now his private road yes it's class 4 we asked for it to be a class 4 rather than be abandoned because we have zoning concerns so it's a class 4 road it's in a commercial district industrial industrial so when we name your road hood road and then 100 years from now we decide we'd rather change it to something else you okay with that me selling a road hood road it might happen we might commemorate you in some way then decide you don't want to commemorate you that's way so let us this will be reflected in our minutes let us think about this a little bit you read the book let's put our heads together I'm going to say for this meaning I'm going to withdraw the request I'll read the history and I assume it will trump my my own little history so I'll enjoy learning about war it's actually about middle sex he's the one who remembers middle sex but what we can do is you can come in here I'll give you a little piece about from the history book because we're also really low on those I'll photocopy some pages on a word nap and send it to you how's that that sounds great great thank you all for that I'm just making a statement no that's a concern anyway Fred thanks I mean just there's maybe the younger people in town which they're not enough don't remember him but some of us there is a nap person that lives down here still I don't know, she must be married to him yeah, she must be in some way married to a guy that's a nap wait, where's Fred? she's like in one of these little village houses down the way across from the old store and as a side dish I have been staying in touch with Sarah on the temple psych facility which I understand is still temple well it was looking more and more permanent just recently when they're called a slum yeah, they call it a slum it's not a slum, it's a pretty nice facility they said it was just mobile homes mobile facility or something like that the state suffices to say I did meet with a commissioner a year ago longer than a year ago the time goes by time goes by fast it was supposed to be a temporary facility we extended it and that extension expired and basically what he told me is what are you going to do about it bottom line is we're not going to do it that wasn't Hal Cohen was it so this is the al-Ghulbiil yes but at this point the state is going to come up with some kind of a solution about where they're going to I couldn't tell from that article whether they were still going to use that site or they were going to look all around the area for some reason they say which I pointed out to our esteemed time clerk the other day they say there's insufficient water there we know that is not the case because we had planned to have our main town village water line come right through there that's what they think well there's the question do we want it or don't we want it they certainly are not thinking about putting it there I don't think we want it they punched a new well for that facility so that well must be okay but I heard they do have arsenic at the complex and they're trucking in water really I wonder if there's arsenic in our water I'm just thinking that maybe that's you know if I had a different building right along with the radon and we've got arsenic in the water and an elevator that doesn't work and a back door that can't open and front stairs that you can't use I'll order it I will order the test we did have ours touched in and that's fine good thank you thank you thank you I'll send you this stuff thank you I'll make a timeline treasure or support action possible hey I don't think this this is as of Monday Tuesday at 4.25 anyway whose property was sold for tax it only got 33 cents what's this escrow tax sale 33 cents when we had a tax sale last year it was overpaid by 33 cents and that's considered an asset yes because we have money money coming in so there's nothing in this financial report which jumps out at you nothing really except for my budget well I think a lot of yeah nothing you can't do about that one you can't help that I think it's yeah I think it's all fine I think we're pretty much covered I think we're pretty much you told me at 6.25 when that one was saved if you guys want to just do the minutes and Phil can sign them and go not that I'm trying to rush you or anything else who approval second all in favor aye any opposed I abstain I wasn't here and do you have any consequences any consequences well this film would like to hear about there's a Vermont league of cities in town spring select worth an institute I'm sure you guys got that we have this yearly salary there's a penny down on email last meeting of last meeting of the year I feel like we just got paid that's because she didn't pay you in time last year I guess she paid us look at that Sarah new batteries for your headlight I want to use my new deposit I swear to God I feel like I just got this so wait a second there's no so how about the lithium battery what lithium battery did you send us anything for tax all you get is 55 you didn't ask me she gets a regular I don't have that I think the lithium batteries are for the fire department they're rough medical medical can we finish the meeting can we finish the meeting 1099 say any 1099 that's produced has already gone out I don't know if I got one we had 99 I got one how long ago did you get it we get a W2 she sends them out as W2 one real quick question when do they come so I can check my mail it came in January they came out probably in piles I haven't looked through yet so you're just going to lock the door that the door yeah you don't have a key I give her a key do you want me to lock the door don't lock yourself out I have my keys here did you give me a key I don't know the meeting is still happening correspondence she said no already she started to say something and then she stopped I would say wait we had questions a bunch of people about the lithium batteries isn't that the same it's just sales tax the question should they be charged sales tax who was it for the fire department I would say no personally I don't know because March signed off on it she probably wasn't paying attention she just looked at the batteries wasn't there something somebody raised and we said could we take it up at the end of the meeting we were talking about reimbursing the sheriffs for clocking speeding on route 12 they asked if they should do it they said they're getting a lot of complaints and they said is it okay if we wanted our route 12 and I said I would think if people from Putnamville which is part of Middlesex are worried about speeding on route 12 then by all means I would do it they said alright we won't do it just enough to get the word up I'll say I've driven home on that road at night and people I'm not a slow driver and people are passing me like crazy I know but the problem their issue was that it was a state road all they say is Middlesex I know in Middlesex I figured that would be okay between the last board meeting and this board meeting the bottom line is any speed enforcement that's what I figured and that's our people those are our people it's Worcester's fault they're the ones that are speeding but if they ride a ticket on a state highway it's the money it just hit the nail on the head we're paying the expense for the state to get the money I know but whatever those bills are I'm going to do it right now I'm going to do it mobile deposit you have to sign your cheque you have to put your phone number