 Okay, so this is a you're in the meet the fed 2.0 panel So how many people in the audience are feds that will admit it? What a coincidence that's really strange. How many are foreign spies? How many here are doing counterintel on the no So so the genesis of this panel was the old meet the fed panel that we've had for many years and is very successful And for a number of scheduling reasons and some screw-ups and everything That panel didn't happen this year But it was perfect because I wanted to try something new I wanted to try sort of a meet the fed 2.0 So I wanted to get the guys actually running the investigations the guys with the badges and the guns and the arrest authority and People that are chasing down, you know looking at packet logs To actually tell us like hey, what's it really like? What's going on? You know, do you sleep at all? Do you fly in all over the country? What's it like to actually be trying to protect these networks and that's why I got my friend here Darren Who I met when he wasn't in the OSI and then later on he went back. He was an agent He thought the private industry might be for him and then you're like I'm running back So he's back and and he knows everybody. He's his nickname is the mayor Yep, see it's out. It's out man And he's assembled a great team of guys representing different agencies who are active and He's gonna kind of do a little interaction with them We have a microphone up here for questions We want to make this very just transparent ask whatever's on your mind after everybody kind of gives a background and And that's about it. It's pretty simple. It's straightforward and I want to introduce Darren. So come on up here man. Thanks, sir Thank you Jeff. Well, thank you all for coming to meet the Fed 2.0 As Jeff said, I'm Darren Harvick sin and I'm an OSI special agent. I've been in OSI for 16 years spent a year out in the corporate world and and came back about a year and a half ago so Appreciate the opportunity to change a little bit on how we interact with with DEF CON in a federal agent context, but I Jeff said this is something new and and if you have worked with federal agents At all, you know, we don't beta test stuff. So we're winging this and It's either gonna crash or succeed. So but it's gonna be up to you on whether it succeeds It's based on Interaction with the audience and so once we get into the panel discussion if you would think a good questions to ask current operators About their job and how they how they go about being federal agents So so what's the agenda? We're gonna start out first and in line with tradition and Start out with a game and then we're gonna go into the panel but the game that we used to play and meet the Fed was Called spot the Lamer, but I changed it up a little I want to do a legit spot the Fed so what we're gonna do is have four individuals come up to the stage and one of them is actually a current operator and Then we're gonna have four volunteers from the audience who once a Really cool shirt that says I spotted the Fed Asked questions and one of those four whoever picks the the real Fed will get a shirt So let's start. Let's kick that off. But before we kick that off We have to sort of define what a Fed is a Fed in our context is a federal agent with a badge gun running cyber operations and investigations a as Defconn got popular and his hackers got together and and conspired to to overflow buffers agents have I've always wanted to be in that mix to to figure out what the hackers were doing. So as a practical matter hackers had to sort of Judge our audience who they're hanging out with and they wanted to spot the federal agent and It's now evolved into sort of a game and it's a game that we're gonna play now so if Billy if you could bring up our our Supposed agents so come on up here stand next to Jeff and Come on up here stand right next to Jeff and And maybe he'll even shake your hand and Be nice Come on stand right here, please. So now I need four volunteers from the audience that wants a shirt So Billy if you would help me out there and make sure they don't you know, they're not already like feds If you could stand over here by the mic, it'd be great Yeah, no sir sir because yeah the girls are up here. No Yeah, right over there by the mic So stand right there So this is how it's gonna work You guys get one question and you get to ask me. Yeah girls. Yeah, no over here guy, sir over here. Yeah, there you go So you guys get one question and you get to ask Ask the ladies one question and they all have to answer that one question And then when you all forward done with your one question Then you get to tell Billy who you think the Fed is and if one of you is right you win if you're all wrong Then you get to ask another question that cool easy, right? So who's first? What kind of question? You can ask anything they're authorized to lie and you and and so you can ask whatever you want to ask Are you a Fed? Okay, next have you ever studied non morse intercepts Would you guys want to be when you grew up when you were little? What did you guys always want to do when you grew up in your little like what was your what was your dream job? Princess. Yeah, that's good. Who was your favorite president tough call Clinton Reagan Clinton in private and then And then we'll see if we have a winner got to commit man. No, don't point So that wasn't private either and talk to Billy in private King thinking okay, do we have a winner two winners, okay? So, let's let's have to see if the audience is as good as our two winners. Okay. I'll carry it. I'm not gonna Get behind our contestants and so the audience this one What's that? Okay, look just this show of hands. So let's do that show of hands Okay This young lady, okay Ma'am, how about this young lady? Wow, wow, okay, so that's which one why Jeff Maybe that's a bad idea your handcuffs facial expressions answers Well, well, well guess what? Guess what the majority of you the ones who picked her were wrong No, no wonder why we are so successful here So If I could have my two winners come up here. Yeah, I'm not Britney Spears. I don't know how to do this So so why'd you pick who you picked? I asked why what they want to be when they grew up And she said a pilot and so there's a red flag military Absolutely, what about you? When I asked who is president, I knew that this was a plant I knew Reagan was gonna be a plant. Oh, really? Okay. That's good. Well If you would Amanda step up This is Amanda and is a currently she's currently an oversight agent. She's running some of our most significant ops and It's here to represent OSI and thank you so much You don't get to go yet What's your name by the way Patrick right? Thanks for playing man. I got a shirt for you Then okay ladies. Thank you so much for playing. I really appreciate it and in tradition the Steve The folks that spotted the Fed get a shirt that says I spotted the Fed and then the Fed Gives a shirt that says I am the Fed Thank you, man. I appreciate it So now we get into the panel and thank you so much Jeff Now we get into the panel discussion the panel discussion is really you you Get to interact with a federal agent if you've never done that before it can be It can be an experience But if think about it as if you're introduced to these young men for the first time and you wanted to ask them a question Approach it like that But what I'm gonna ask them to do individually is introduce themselves introduced What agency they're from and maybe talk about their mission a little bit and then once we're done with that I'll open it up for questions. So think about good questions and we'll start off with Adam. Sir Yes, my name is Adam and I'm an investigator for the Air Force Office of Special Investigations and I've been with the Air Force now about ten years been with investigations for about half that and I'm a active service member very proud of my military service Very happy for all of you in the audience that our service members government active duty Civilians reservists et cetera. I see a lot of you out there and I just thank you for all your service I'm very proud to serve alongside you whether we've worked together or not I thank you and I look forward to our dialogue this morning. So my name is Ahmed. I'm with NASA's computer crime division In Southern, California. We're in Pasadena I've been with NASA for just a little over a year now before that. I spent just under a decade in the Air Force Half of that time with OSI were actually worked with with Adam and Darren for a few years Our our mission area is a typical computer crime Mission set, you know the computer intrusions child exploitation cases Typical forensic support to white collar crime type cases We we do it all out of our shop and I'd say most of our time is spent Investigating computer intrusions, which is probably of most interest to most of you in the room So we can chat about that as you wish. Glad to be here My name is Adam as well. I'm with NCIS out of Washington State I've been with NCIS for about five years and prior to that I was with the US Customs Service as a special agent Which has now become DHS ICE I just got back from a couple years overseas where I focused mainly on criminal forensics Not so much the network side any child pornography fraud You died suspiciously went through your computer to try to figure that out Now I'm back here in the States and starting to get into the network intrusion site My name is Ryan Assistant Special Agent in charge for Army CIDs digital forensics and research branch with our computer crime investigative unit Much like these guys. We are very network intrusion heavy, but we do a lot of other things involving all manner of things that are of interest to the Army and Department of Defense from Child exploitation to human trafficking to terrorism to all kinds of things so We have an investigative mission, but We also do a lot of our own forensic stuff the bits and the bites We're kind of a one-stop shop We're kind of unique in the army and in that way where we Are the only ones that have a law enforcement mandate that do both the investigation and the forensic examination as well So I'm very happy to be here. Thank you Thank you gentlemen, and you may recognize Adam from NCIS from his cameos on the show Proby yeah, good. So now it's your turn Anybody have any questions kick this off? Okay, sir, please step up to the mic So your name where you're from and ask your question. I'm Tyler. I'm a student at University of Berkeley Um, I noticed when you were describing your job description the first thing almost all of you mentioned was child exploitation Is this like the main priority when it comes to your divisions and is this true across all federal agencies? I guess I can start Within the Air Force, I mean we have a very limited number of Computer or cyber skilled specialists that conduct investigations and really, you know support to General crimes is actually one of our lower priorities We probably dedicate very limited resources to doing that just because the the growth of you know Intrusion activity and the damage that that causes to our network So that's probably becoming each year less and less something that's on our scope within the Air Force You know you guys can definitely talk to what your entities are doing. I don't know if you're doing any that Yeah, I mean I would say you know obviously child exploitation cases are important because the folks that are doing that type of stuff Need to be caught and need to be put behind bars and and we kind of refrain from saying what's a Bigger priority than something else. I mean it really just depends on the caseload And we try not to push stuff away So the only reason I mentioned the majority of our work is in the computer intrusion arenas because that's where the majority of The work is not because we let it bubble to the top is a bigger priority So, you know if the if the caseload is you know five child exploitation cases in one computer intrusion case So be it if it's the other way around so be it just depends on what activity what activity services and And how many you know agents we have assigned to what stuff but it's not It's certainly not something that we say oh, you know We don't have time to run that case because we're doing this because because they are important cases as well Very similar, you know, we did some it's grab bad cases whatever we get we get Unfortunately that is not a rare crime and it goes across the scope of all our agencies prior When I was with customs I was in a group solely devoted to child exploitation and that was beyond just you know Looking at pictures on the internet. Those were people actively traveling to foreign countries to do things with minors Unfortunately, it's it's just as popular as it was ten years ago It's just a crime that doesn't go away. And so I think we all devote a fair amount of time to that It's it's the same for us my particular division we focus on the intrusions But we do have digital forensic examiners that are spread out across the country will cross the world really That see a lot more of the child exploitation stuff particularly the child pornography One of the things about that crime in particular is that it gets a lot of public attention It causes a lot of public outcry It really gets a lot of media focus. So when you talk about something that pays the bills so to speak That's one of the ones that people like to focus on and the reason for it is because you know when you look at one hand You know, we're taking people that are actively praying on children creating child pornography sharing it around the world and contributing to this type of victimization versus Well, you know, we got a Romanian hacker That broke into a Department of Defense web server I mean people the general public tends to care a little bit more about one Than the other as far as an agency priority like the others we don't really Prioritize our crimes like that we take what we've got but it does receive a great deal of focus And I guess if I could just add as far as priorities It's not that it's less of a priority for my agency as a whole more less of a priority for our cyber Specialists because we're kind of constrained in terms of our effort. So we're pushing those types of cases just to General agents and trying to get their cyber skill sets more, you know more advanced so that they can still take that mission forward. So Thank you very much for your question, appreciate it. Thank you for your answer. Thanks. Yeah. Thank you very much Very good question Wondering how you got into the career where you computer scientists first and then you got recruited Were you like law or justice majors and then you got trained? It's very good question. But what's your name? Where you're from? Linda Butler Where are you from? That's a hard question for some people. You had my kind of night last night then because I don't know where I'm from right now, but So Please guys, do you want if I start with this one? Yes, you know, there's a real big debate In our field in general particularly federal law enforcement for guys that do the cyber stuff Is it easier to take a cop and turn him into a cyber guy or is it easier to take an IT person? Or somebody's computer scientist and turn him into a good cyber cop You know, it's kind of like a glass is half full or half empty debate, you know less filling tastes great It's one of those things that and I'd like to ask the fellow panel members as you go down I'd like to hear your opinion on that Our consensus has generally been it's easier to take Someone who was a cop or had a law enforcement background and turn him into a cyber guy because you can teach the cyber stuff and it's a little tougher to teach some of the You know the intuition stuff the following from point A to point B and being able to make that intuitively from B to D, you know without going through C That that But it's probably a product of where a lot of us came from I was a cop first. I was a street cop Started out in the military Thought there had to be more than just writing speeding tickets And by then I had already Got in a grad degree and a few other things and wanted to move up and move on So I started looking at investigations very quickly got focused on forensic science in particular And then computer and digital forensics after that was kind of how I got sucked in and decided that was Where I wanted to make the rest of my career on the same note I Come from a law enforcement family. I was gonna be a cop. I didn't go to school for I went school got a degree in psychology I've been kind of geeky, but by comparison. I'm not so hot when I'm here You know, I got into law enforcement and I started doing just regular general crimes customs, you know, some people smuggling dope All sorts of things and kiddie porn cases came up and like we discussed those are pretty prevalent I got my my feet wet there and doing the forensics and I've always been involved in computers and interested in Technology and I got into it there and I got a little more involved on the same note is, you know, turning a cop into an IT guy All of us I think are the same we also have, you know, we're special agents. We have this job code We also have other job codes at least with NCIS. We have computer scientists. We have a Investigative computer specialists things that we bring to the table. We may not be computer geniuses But what we bring to the table is we can go outside the office go to your house to the arrest to the search We have we bring a law enforcement angle to it. So we may not be The be all end all when it comes to the computer investigations, but we also have other positions So if you don't want to go out there and you know go through people's underwear in their house and things like that There there are other positions that you do the behind the keyboard kind of stuff and you're doing the investigations from that side But one of the benefits is that we can go outside and knock on doors and talk to people So your your vote is cop first To a degree Yes, okay Yeah to a degree. I don't know where where I'd vote on that poll. I think You know, I think you just need to be a geek that knows how to talk to people honestly And whether that's comes as you know, if you were a cop first or if you're a geek first I'm not sure that and in my mind. I don't think that matters too much I mean you have to have a passion for law enforcement You have to have a passion for computer science or this industry if you have both of those things You know, if you want to catch bad guys and like computers, we whichever one comes first is It I think is irrelevant personally I mean because we we have and I'm sure army does I'm sure NCIS does And I know OSI does we have a little bit of both We have a little bit of the the geeks that became cops and then the cops that became geeks or nerds or whatever Words you want to use I Didn't I don't have a background as as a street cop first my first Introduction to law enforcement was being a computer crime investigator being an agent with OSI while I was in the Air Force so My undergrad is in computer engineering. My master's is computer science, you know resume wise. I'm probably the geek but I like to talk to people and and and and I think that's the That's the key skill set that you need to have outside of the geek stuff is Like communication skills absolutely Yeah, I think I'll win favor with the audience if I say you're way better off if you're geek first I guess I was one as well So score one for me, but no, I came from an IT background I did enterprise net ops and security And then through a friend of mine who you know was with the Air Force Investigations she pulled me in and I heard about it and I've been thrilled, you know doing this work ever since But really part of it and it kind of piggybacks on what a lot of people have said is When I look at how we shape our force you there's no cookie cutter process really We need people from a variety of backgrounds and expertise So, you know if I can get that guy that you know codes in a closet He may that be that team member that I need but then there may be some guy That's just been a great street cop that balances that team out and so You know, you can't always just say it's one way one path We need people from all over the spectrum of of geek of law enforcement of just creative thinkers People skills generally are a must being able to work with people and accomplish the mission through the support I mean the reality is in law enforcement I mean we rely on the relationships we build to get our things done there's just way too much stuff for us to work and we rely on a lot of you to help us and Having those people skills really make that happen. So Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your question. Thank you. So I'm Carney. I'm from Florida When you're told to do a task that you morally disagree with how do you handle that? I haven't been in that situation yet. So, okay, if you were told to do a task that you morally disagree with How would you handle that? You know some something that you morally object to I think you I think in any but I don't think the law enforcement aspect to it Is Is any more or less relevant than just anything you do any job you have And you could work at Starbucks and be asked to do something. That's you know, that's that that you object to so I would say you Obviously try not to do it and try to talk your way through it with your supervisor so that you're not put in that position again I don't know if anybody else has any other thoughts on that, you know, there's there's plenty of plenty of avenues For people that work with the government if they find themselves in a morally gray situation or something That they don't agree with like Ahmed. I haven't been placed in that position yet, but there's whistleblower laws protections a lot of time in my agency has spent on Informing employees about courses that they can take if they're asked to do something that that they don't feel is right or They learn of something that they feel is Criminal or morally objectionable and ensuring that the employees are empowered to make the right decisions for themselves within The the legal and regulatory framework of federal government. Thank you Thank you. And if I can address that question briefly you could probably ask that question in any conference in any any venue And probably similar answers moral morality is Pretty much a personal choice, right? But it says law enforcement officers we Also, you know have a code of professionalism. It's based on our individual Organizations and we'll uphold those professional ideals. And so Morality is a personal choice and we have the same venues for remedy in that Environment as any other is any other workforce. So thank you again, sir Name and where you're from? my name is expo and I'm from New Brunswick, Canada and my question is as Cyber agents for each of your divisions Do you work with an informant base and how would that differ from a traditional? That of a traditional field agent if you do work with one. That's a good question We we do work with informants. It's actually not that different than a traditional field agent One of the things that we experienced a little bit more than probably the average You know general crimes agent at one of our outlying offices is we don't always have quite as much face-to-face interaction with the folks that come to our attention or or become Informants sometimes because of the nature of what we do, you know, sometimes we meet these folks online And typically there's some sort of an interface that goes just beyond, you know, like chatting On the on the net because it's difficult to verify identities and things but We do talk to and recruit Informants from all all over the place not only In what you would consider criminal elements, but also, you know regulatory agencies federal employees Corporate America just all over the place sometimes they come to us sometimes we go to them it just depends On that note, you know since represent a lot of the military organizations we have locations overseas different countries and again Our cyber divisions in each one of our agencies are just a small faction of our entire agency So we might have one person who covers 10 states or two countries or five countries So going back to what he said the same thing, you know If you're in California, but you're the next nearest guy to somebody in Utah There's you know, we have people who have sources in different states and it's mostly electronic communication I think that's the big difference is just you know with a standard informant you're meeting them face-to-face and Exchange and things with us just using technology doing it online Yeah, the only thing I'd add to that and I know we don't we don't each need to answer every single question because we're Gonna run out of time quick, but it's usually our informants are usually good guys I mean if you if you compare the type of informants that say, you know Somebody that works drug cases has and not to say that the all the informants in the drug world are bad guys There's good guys there too, but typically they they kind of have some one of a you know embattled history with drugs or access to drugs or those sorts of things Whereas a lot of times in our case, I mean the the informants are just good guys that have access to information And that are willing to help And they don't they don't have to be criminals and they never were criminals and they never will be criminals So that's probably the only distinction I'd make with in the cyber world Is that the majority of our informants are good guys too? Thanks. Thank you. Appreciate it sir Jeff from Rochester, New York. I go to RIT. It's up Chuck My question is why would you choose government or federal work over doing federal contracts for like a third party? And why did you choose that? My wife asks me out every day It's Going back to the question the young lady asked earlier You just have to have a passion for what you do and I think all of us standing up here in addition to having a passion for You know this industry we have a passion for law enforcement and it's kind of hard to I think most some of us have tried it I mean, I did try the private sector for a while and I enjoyed it It was good work, but I was never personally as you know Satisfied professionally or personally as I was when I was working law enforcement arena. It's just It's it's it's more of a passion than anything else. I mean, I suppose the The money could be more or less, you know, it really depends on on the job or the type of job you have but If if you're if you're asking You know when you mention federal contracts, I don't for me It's not necessarily the stability of the security of the government versus federal contracts because quite frankly If any of you've been watching the news lately the government really isn't that stable right now I mean, there's a lot of money problems that are going on and budget issues that quite frankly scare me a little bit And so I'm not sitting in the seat because it's a steady paycheck I'm sitting in the seat because it's it's the it's a line of work that I have a passion to do The contractors positions just don't give me a gun. So that's mine No, you know being active duty, I love the people I work with and I mean, that's a big part of it Nothing against contractors. I work with a lot of phenomenal contractors as well. And you know, they're part of the team I just I'm proud of my military service and You know, you got to weigh those options. There's advantages and disadvantages There's headaches and working for the government and the bureaucracy that we deal with and you know So you kind of got to weigh what what your interests are and what you're you know What you need best for for the life that you want. So Well, thank you. Thank you Thank you Sure My name is Nick. I'm from San Diego. Cool. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yes. Thank you So my question is kind of it's kind of on the edge and I apologize But it's in regards to child pornography, which I think like publicly and statistically is kind of exploded the most part Now, like I assume when you know, police officer, you know finds like a meth dealer a co-kit They don't have to like physically, you know, get down there and take a line to find out it's cocaine You know, there's labs and whatnot for that. But for I mean child pornography It's in regards to like a conviction. How do you how do you go about doing that? I just I would assume you have to expose yourself or a team. So like a mass Quantity of that we do we see a lot of it when I was with customs. I was I think we were the first class they started instituting a At least annual kind of well-being check to make sure that it wasn't affecting your life I know a lot of Smaller like police departments local police departments and other investigative agencies have started doing that I know some places they limit it You can only do it for two three years and you have to get out. You can't make your career out of it in those places a Lot of it, you know, it's difficult You do see a lot But you kind of you kind of got to separate yourself in the situation Especially in our line of business, you know, when you're dealing with counterfeiting or currency cases or dope cases When you see 20 million dollars, you don't see that as 20 million dollars There's no temptation like hey, I could take five bucks put it in my pocket because it's it's evidence You know, you kind of got to remove yourself in that situation and say that is that's not money That's just evidence and you kind of have to do that with the child pornography And I mean legally you guys I mean is there like things a process you have to go through things you have to sign I mean because I mean it's it's almost redundant at that point Like, you know, you're taking one thing from an area and you know, you're putting in another one I know it's really great or good, but it's still there's a I mean take these guys, but you know, I've done a decent round these cases There's there's definitely a process legal process You know though in the legal process if you're convicted or you're defendant in these cases, you know, you're you have the right to a defense So there's there's ways and there's legalities to giving you access to the evidence because if you're in a dope case or some other case Your defense team has has to have access to the evidence to review it to come up with a proper defense But there are a lot of the gals. It's not so much just signing something. It's access control Where they can view it how much they can view it? I know there's that case in the news of the guy who's defending himself from I forget what state But he's defending himself and he gets to look at his own child born again, and that's kind of the odd duck, you know It's not the everyday thing It is it is considered contraband if that's what you're asking, right? It's definitely controlled It's it's not something that's just kind of hanging around in the office that everybody can see You know the the process the analysis the forensics on the box Clearly articulating and showing what is considered child pornography. What's not Some some of that determination has already been made for us There's repositories of hash values out there that have known images that have already been analyzed over and over and over again so you don't have to dig through the image and Get three or four different experts to look at it and say whether or not, you know That the individual in the image is underage or not that that's already been done And so a lot of times it's just you know matching a value that's that's in a repository That's that's already been done a bunch of times and if that's if the count is high enough on those And you have enough for a conviction then you know Obviously you still need to treat the other stuff and get the other stuff entered in the system But you're not actually in most cases you're not taking those images and transferring those images to a repository You're usually dealing with the hash values of those images So you're not just sending child porn all over the place and as far as recent years From like in an actual reliable source is is it the contraband itself on the decline or is it still rising? in like say the United States You wouldn't happen to be a reporter would you You've got the four question syndrome going on I'm just messing with you, but please go ahead. You know just just real quick I'm not aware of the particular statistics But if we just apply a little common sense thought as as technology gets better and better Storage media gets larger and larger transmission speeds get faster and faster. It's only reasonable to expect that Crimes that depend on those things For their lifeblood like child pornography and child exploitation will become more prolific in society Cool. All right. Thanks guys. Thanks very much. Thank you so much sir Hello, I'm Wesley from Seattle Yeah, this is a yes or no answer I think given the broad expertise So got a long way to help me With arguments that I have colleagues and co-workers and whatnot so if in your opinion if I was a if I was a search engine and I was I was collecting a lot of data from the web and It came to the point where I need to decide Whether or not to store content from sites That They were proud of being Pre-teen swimsuit models. That's what they did or to so their non-membership areas Where well weird we do pre-teen swimsuit modeling Your opinion yes or no Sorry to put you on the spot like this, but the yes or no it just resolves a lot of issues for me Would I want to be affiliated with these sites in any way what I want to Index index them and be appointed to them I Wouldn't Yeah, I think for most of us up here It's all about the letter of the law if you if you read what the law says what the United States Well in this country what the United States code has to say about what's permissible and what's not It either either either is or it isn't yet So I would take my cue from that because that is what we're all called upon to enforce. Okay Got another report. Can I just quickly just follow that one was so if it was your Search engine and you were running it from your home, right? given the experience that you have and So it's right of admission reserved I would decide who comes into my index would you store that content? So would you be the pointed to that would you would you index those sites? from your personal experience I Don't I've never been put in that situation. That's a hypothetical. I mean, I can't even based on everything I'm done. I wouldn't want to be associated with any thing that's even remotely borderline Suspect chopper. I'll give you one one quick answer on that just to because I think you're part kind of want to know our personal opinions As well as so I'm not a lawyer I don't try to be a lawyer and whenever there's that you know fine line of is this okay to move forward with or not On a case I always call a lawyer the prosecutors. I don't make those calls myself But personally if it were my own company in my business and had absolutely nothing to do with my professional career I would I would probably avoid those sites myself Thank you, sir. Appreciate it sir Hi, I'm Chris from Chicago. My question is obviously you guys I don't want to go back to the cell for anything but between violent crime or offensive images or whatever else There's a lot of demands put on you by the job. How do you manage or how? How do you really balance the demands in job and what you actually go through in the course of your investigations? With being a husband or brother or boyfriend or whatever else and having a real life Very good question. It's your question. I'm gonna cry right now. Actually, I Gotta go call my family. Excuse me thinking about it and all the things I went through last night actually In the service of my country, but please There's there's always an overwhelming amount of work to be done in this industry and I mean you just got it you got to have priorities and I mean, I have a family. I'm married and I'd love to say that I leave it for every day Or did I leave it five every day that does not happen? But you know, I make it my priority to get home, you know my career goals and things like that I don't aspire to you know get to a certain level in the government I aspire to you know retire one day and have a family that I can spend time with and There's people that that sacrifice a lot of that to get their retirement or to get to a stage that they want to be at and You just have to have balance. I mean, I think balance in life is a very important thing And you have to know your priorities and make sure that you kind of keep those In check because I mean the job the job pays the bill short term But it doesn't necessarily take care of you long term. So Yeah, same the same as Adam. I mean family man kids You know that work life balance is something that you're always working on and I think everybody deals with that struggle, right? Work whether you work 10 hours a day 12 hours a day 14 hours a day You know you you you have an obligation requirement to to your job as well as your family And so just simply on the in the aspect of okay balancing, you know your professional life and your personal life Everybody does it differently, but specifically I think what you're asking is, you know, some of the day-to-day stuff that we see Like the bad people don't say the baggage that you the dealing with bad guys seeing images that would otherwise think I probably Damage you mentally in some regard which I am mentally damaged. I think at this point But no, you know, I try and turn it off I really do just I try and get home and turn it off and it's hard Sometimes it really is because you're home and you're with your kids and you're playing you watch the TV and You know, you got the you know today's case running through your head But you just do the best you can like any other thing I mean something that I picked up recently on it's funny you ask that is You know, I read so much at work Always reading, you know, whether it's investigative information or whether it's professional, you know material that I know Whether it's for the case or to educate myself I realized just last week that man I don't read anything for leisure to just get my mind off everything And so I went out and bought a couple of books that have absolutely nothing to do with anything that I'm interested in just to get my mind off of everything else and You know just sit in bed when the kids are asleep and read that helps kind of turn things off as well I echo exactly what they said and as a father just makes you Keep them more watchful on your kids. That's the only thing that's I think I've been different Of course when they get old enough to use the internet, I'll shut that off Thanks very much guys, I appreciate it. Hey, thank you very much appreciate sir Hi, I'm RFG from Northern, California I just wanted to know to what extent federal law in particular 18 USC 10 30 affects what you guys are constrained from doing or The extent to which it does not constrain you and I was also curious about your working definition of federal interest computer I'm sorry that last part again. I was interested in your definition of federal interest computer You're working definition Oh, the first part I think is easier to address The all of us act within The laws that have been passed by the by the government and the interpretation of those laws by by the courts Particularly in our organization. We have a policy. It's called CYA in this case. It's not Cover your rear. It's consult your attorney as was brought up before that is the golden rule in our organization Everything that comes in goes through a senior counsel for us and that's to help us as agents and investigators Ensure that we're acting within The scope of the laws that exist whether it be the Constitution or privacy laws or or whatever the case may be so we take that extremely seriously and Because all of us also if we violate those not only do we run the risk of losing a case But we also open ourselves up to civil liability as well So there's a great deal of focus on ensuring that we're acting within the law. We're doing everything legally Someone else want to give a definition of federal interest computing No, I'll be honest with you. I don't even know what it is. I mean, I'm not gonna pretend like I do Can you tell us what it is? It's it's part of federal law basically a 18 USC 10 30 Have certain constraints relative to federal interest computers and the exact definition in that term. I think is Interpretation you mean what constitutes a government computer versus a non-government interest computer under the law, okay? Basically What what what constitutes like if if something let's say you're you're you're doing an investigation And you trace something and it looks like it's on some server in I'll just I'll just pick some place Singapore, okay? and It's and it's theoretically or actually possible for you guys to penetrate that server in some sense to Access it without explicit authorization Can you then do that or are you constrained from doing that? No, we're we're not authorized under Most criminal code to penetrate any computer regardless of where it is You're getting that from when you start talking about that kind of stuff you start talking about some, you know Computer Network offensive and act yeah that that from under 18 USC We can't do now what we can do is we if it's a state side if it's a US based computer IP address or whatever We can get search warrants to effectively get everything on that computer that would be the equivalent of logging in and taking it But if it's overseas then we're at the mercy of the local law enforcement of wherever it is so if it's in a country that's That's cooperative and is willing to help then then we can usually gain access to what we need if it's in a country That doesn't want to help well then then We're at the yet, but I mean there's there's international You know interpole and those sorts of things that help with that if it's overseas, but yeah We're not penetrating anything. We don't we don't do that. Well, I have to apologize profusely really appreciate your questions But I didn't come armed today and the goons are getting ready to pull us off the stage So I don't have any other remedy except to leave Okay But I just want to say thank you so much for coming It's a great opportunity to be able to interact with you and