 Welcome to Toffy TV, joined in the studio by John Bain. We are going to be discussing Everton Stadium and Sport Payser, not being the sponsor for the next season. But let's kick off with the business side of the stadium. You know, we had planned permission when in late December, didn't it, as the club had said. Last week the club confirmed that Lango Rock is to build the preferred builder. Subjective planning permission. You see, I'm going full, half full, glad to hear. I'm going, when we get the planning permission in June or July, then we'll start with Lango Rock. But the club have announced that Lango Rock are the preferred builder should planning permission be granted. And that's a step further on in the whole process, isn't it? It is, it makes it more real, doesn't it? Clearly people get a bit uptight if they don't see what's going on. It's an iceberg. You know, we're seeing a little bit at the top when the club does the public bit, be it the consultation, the results of the consultation, announcing we've submitted the planning application, then people wobble for a bit until they can see it. And as we speak, there are people out there trawling through loads and loads of documents, reading stuff. Yeah. And I think I don't do that, to be honest. I might read all the exec summary type things. But the reality is that the club have done a very thorough job. And hopefully that up front time pays dividends in a reasonably quick decision. We saw, obviously, there was images last weekend, everything because the full, the full plan is there, isn't it, on the full city council. We've tried everything, took everything into account, hasn't it? Where's the windiest areas of the, where the new stadium's going to be and how the water is and everything else. And I think for a lot of people who, you know, because we've made it all the way along this journey, this won't happen. It won't, the stadium will never get built. We've done this before that, you know, the naysayers as we've gone along. And even if you take the naysayers away, Evertonians of it, you don't want to fully commit to it in case it backfires because there will be that. It's like BAR. Don't celebrate a girl to BAR, so it's okay. You've been there that many times that you can't, like, see what happens. But even to those kind of people, it must feel like it is, it is a real thing because obviously everything's gone in. To my mind, we've never been so far down the line with a new stadium. No, I mean, I mean, like most many things, you know, it's about momentum, isn't it? You know, you look at what the originals are trying to do in GTA. That's all about building momentum and providing proof points. So if you say you're going to do something, do it. And then each time a naysayer falls off the naysayers wagon. And whilst the club gave themselves quite a lot of wriggle room around the timing of things, like phrases like the summer, before the end of the year, you know, that sort of stuff. You can't dispute, nobody can dispute that when they say they're going to do something, they've done it. So that should build confidence. And not, I haven't read the stuff, I don't know whether it says in the planning submission that the preferred builder is Langor Rourke. I don't know if it says that. But they didn't have to tell us, I suppose, unless it is in there and then they do. But again, that's another little push on the momentum side. And they're obvious questions, you know, that's what it looks like, who's going to build it, you know, and then the obvious one, which we don't know yet, is where's the money coming from. So, so, you know, people who are cautious, which is what you're saying about the people who just think, well, the Everton way, what's that, you know, conceding five minutes into injury time or something. So even if planning is granted, then someone will say, well, until a spade on the ground. And then it will be, well, until I see things coming up. And then it will be until the roof's on, and so on. So there's always going to be a diminishing number of people who won't believe it until they see it type of thing. But I mean, it's as real, if not more real, than any other stadium, proposed stadium, albeit one if you want to be negative, we haven't got as far as Kirby yet. But because, you know, we haven't had any reviews on the planning application come out. Yeah, I mean, but even with Kirby, I don't remember, I didn't feel like any of you may know more, didn't feel like it was this far. We shall say I'm older than you. No, no, you've been a shareholder, another thing, will have looked in. I'll be honest, I had very little interest in Kirby because I didn't pay any attention to anything that was happening, because A, I never believed we'd go and B, I didn't want us to go. Where is this one? I think because of where it is and the land being paid isn't it's been a process. But it's all subject to. But everything's subject to that. One of the things that is in it was the capacity, which it's recorded at 52,888. At the first time I'd seen that figure, I'd only ever heard it's more than 52,000. Well, I was annoying myself because I can't find it. When the documents got leaked, whenever it was November time or whatever it was last year, there's a graphic and I think it's in the planning submission, but the graphic that they use now doesn't have the numbers on. So what it had was all the sections of the stadium, how many seats to wear in each section. And I can't find where I've stored it. But so I knew then that it was, I'm sure it wasn't 888 because we remember that. Gambling companies would like that. Perhaps we'll talk about it. It's more than 52,000. So it was always a little bit more than 52. And so, you know, I prefer to say now that that's just under 53. So sounds better, doesn't it? It sounds much better. I've always believed and this numbers in there. I mean, if I apologise if it isn't 888, it might be 388 or 588. So now you tell us. Yeah, it's more than 52 is the key thing, but I always. Maybe the engineer will find out what we're talking about. He might have a look now, yeah. But the thing I always think anyway, and I've said this from day one, and I don't know whether I'll ever be through him, right, or not, but I've always thought it'd be more like 55 anyway. We've had this chapter. We have, and once the process goes along, one thing I would say about that John was doing was a, John Dars, who we both know you were in Germany with last year. Safe standing route show. Safe standing route show. He knows his stuff on the safe standing. We've been able to choose between them and everything. He was talking about, he'd had the look at the seat depths and everything else of the proposed Bramley Moe, and said that he wouldn't be able to fit like 1.5 in or whatever. Which we took, I think again we talked about on the last time you did one of these, because I'd asked the club and that their planning assumption around rail seating was one to one and a half. And that's what the dimensions allow. Although there's dimensions in the stadium, that would allow one to two, but then another in places where you're next necessarily put rail seats like hospitality areas and things like that. But with that, and with obviously we've seen people, you know, we know the government said they're going to look into the rail seating now in some stadiums because of, you know, I think Man United had asked about it, put rail seating in there and increasing theirs. And the whole thing for me with that is if those, you know, we've still got, it's what three years say, a bit more than three years to build a thing, legislation could change because it's not actually, it's not actually a ruling, is it? It's not, it's, isn't it just a guide because it's the safety, the people who decide, do decide anyway whether it's, and that's where people need to be. And I think the engineers confirm that it does say 52. This is what people need to do. I think I had a Twitter conversation with somebody the other day and I've had some private DMs as well because when we did the last business matters, obviously we talked about the stadium because it was around that time. And we talked about it being calling for review by the, you know, the right politician, second state or whatever. And some guy messaged me and said, whoa, what's this about, you know? But that's process, that's what will happen. And it's funny that people, when they hear it will be called in, they jump to Kirby and public enquiries and delay and all those sorts of things. And that's not necessarily the case. So what we have to do as fans is trust that the club are not all numpties and they don't know what they're doing. Maybe just maybe it's the exact opposite, they're right on this. And that's where we should build trust as that same thing as when that momentum is growing that they're doing things the way they're doing them for a reason. So raising flags about the capacity, raising flags about rail seating and not that we shouldn't talk about them, but we shouldn't talk about them in a manner that assumes the club haven't got it in mind because they clearly have. I mean, the end in mind here to me, I agree with you. You know, I would be more surprised if the stadium opened with 52,888 seats than I would be if it opened with a little bit more. Okay. And you know, and as Ped was saying when we were talking about this earlier, a couple of thousand more seats and you're at that 55, you know, that's not going to break a camel's back, is it so to speak? And then if you overlay that with John Blaine's view that it's inevitable that to me anyway, that there will be rail seating in the Premier League before our stadium opens at a ratio of greater than one to one. We may very well still have that, you know, magic trick of it's 61,878 people in that stadium on the first game, but that will come about through potentially a slight small increase in the all-seater capacity and the future-proofed exploitation of rail seating. Wow, isn't that what the club has been saying for ages? Indirectly, that's what they've been saying for ages. We said that at the time when he put it out, it was 52 with the potentials for it to be 62. 62 was a maximum. Maximum was what it would be. So if it's more, like you said, if it gets 55, 56 and more than that. Can I ask your question? Only because part of this debate goes on every time we play Arsenal, right? Oh, yeah. So my mate is very much of the view, and given his view, he's not been to Spurs yet, but Arsenal's is the best stadium in the country. Nice. So excluding Tottenham, which one do you think it is? Out two. No, just exclude Tottenham, which is the best stadium. Ped shook his head. Have you got a view, Ped? I think Old Trafford's better than... No, I think Old Trafford's better than Arsenal. Right, so my mate likes it because it's spacious. Yeah, more obviously bigger space. And all those sorts of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the debate we were having on Sunday, not with him, with somebody else was, you could just look at the pitch from where we were, which is right in line with where DCL should have scored and he didn't. That the rake, we're going to be meters closer to the pitch. Yeah, with Old Trafford. And I just said something casually, which I never thought through, I just said it, is we'll get infinitely superior atmosphere at Bramleymore, even if it is, quote, only just under £53,000 versus £60,000 that goes into the Emirates, simply because of the way Dan's designed the goddamn thing. I've just been very quiet. Come on, Dan, we need to hear more from you. But you see what I mean? So we can get wrapped up in the capacity. And by the way, as you well know, I think this is way too low. But not for reasons of atmosphere and stuff, but for reasons of pricing and things like that. So I think if that gets signed off, when it gets signed off, that's going to be a great day. It's the start of the sadness then of leaving Goodison, you know what, 1200 days later or something, we're going to leave Goodison. Yeah, of course. I mean, that's a different thing is when you start thinking about that, but just very quickly to wrap up on the capacity. We said it last year when we were in Dusseldorf, and that was £54,000. And it wasn't even, it was about £53,000 in there. It was brilliant. The atmosphere was brilliant, steep stands. It was quite close to the pitch. And I remember us saying, if we're any more always like this, it'll be great. It'll do. It'll do, you know. Will cope. Exactly. So you're absolutely right. Not always is a capacity, just because it's a bigger number, make a better atmosphere. It's about being on. You know, Goodison only holds less than £39,000 now because we've got to make the modifications. And yeah, our atmosphere when it's bouncing is better than the Emirates will ever be, better than the Etihad. And that's proximity again. Exactly. So that is a key thing. So yet interesting. You've got your idiot board over there, right? Yeah. Funny when I said you've got your idiot. The bed looked up then. Sorry. If it gets built for £500,000,000, that'd be a really good price, wouldn't it? Well, that's what they've said. I've only £500,000. Because I think the stadium constructed itself is three courses of that or something. So the rest is prep. We'll spare. There's just, you know, one point two billion, but apparently the stadium itself is whaler. Yeah. That's the project. I mean, when I asked, I got told by a very well-connected person that the build cost was about £350 million. That was nearly a year ago now, probably. £350 million, including contingency. So probably they were talking about being able to build it for $300 or less for course prices go up all the time and stuff like that. But yeah, it is closer. September 23. Well, that's what that in, isn't it? That's not the start of the season. No, no, 7th of September 2023, the stadium will be ready to be played and apparently. Some of those tests must be games. There has to be two events. Spares had two events. Yeah. So when we look at these planning docs and it's got tests, basically, as you say, that date in September, everything's tested. That must be a couple of games that have taken place already by then, wasn't it? Yeah. You see, for me, when I looked at that, I don't know whether you're the same, I looked at that mean pad, we got them through it last week when they come out. It was like the 7th of September. That's worse case scenario, because when you're planning something, when you're planning something, you're always giving yourself that window in case anything does happen. So therefore, obviously the season, yeah, it's got its days on its phone. 1,290 from the time. Tomorrow it will be 1,299 and off we go. And then that, you give yourself that, you know, if this went wrong and if this goes wrong, we give that realistically, we could be on and providing things go well should be kicking the season off in the August of that. Only you talk on what, maybe three weeks before a month before that. So that means that there will have had to be maybe two pre-season friendlies at Bramley Maw or one test event and then a game to go through it, maybe to the 23s game, maybe Europa League qualifying, who knows. Oh no, because you'll have to have the certificate by then, but they'll have to be two events. Regular since Champions League by then, yeah. So we will have had to have two test events, but I just thought it was interesting that the date was actually, you know, the club will be having the fun, I guess, between now and then, deciding which world-renowned football club are going to be the one we play in that last friendly, which becomes the first game at Bramley Maw. Nice. There's only a couple that you would have. You'd love. See someone's trying to play Liverpool and I was like, what? No. A risk not worth taking. No chance. Barcelona, Real Madrid. One of them too. Someone like that. Yeah, would be nice. So that's the stadium stuff, but at the situation now, we're not expecting to hear anything until maybe May Dune, something like that, do you think? Well, the statutory consultation, when does that start? That Liverpool City Council have to do. Hasn't it started? Didn't it start when that went on their website? Has that when it started? I thought that was when it started. So that started, so they've got to go through that first and then they've got to have the debate, have the historic England, they've got to object and then Secretary of State has to look at things or whatever and then they go, yeah, sorted and then they stick that spade on the ground, far adult turn up with Bill and Denise and they'll all have a foot on a spade. And then people will be tweeting about it for two and a half years. Another wall's gone up or holding the wall or whatever. So maybe like the summertime fingers crossed that we should hear something. Which again is all to plan in May Dune, whenever. Excellent. Other big news, I suppose, was which we had at the beginning of last week, was Everton have ended their partnership with Bob Paisley. Bob Paisley cut the agreement short, which means it'll run till the end of the season and then next season we will have as well as possibly a new kit manufacturer and a new sleeve. We'd definitely have a new sleeve sponsor because Andy Baird's contract is up in the summer. Sport Paisley won't be there any longer. Well, I said on our last business matters podcast, and it'll be a full house. So new manufacturer, new front of shirt sponsor, new sleeve sponsor. And that's going to happen, isn't it? And the trick is that the aggregate of those is greater than the aggregate of the outgoing ones, which requires some view that they know that's going to be as a bird in the hand at least. And I think the couple have said, haven't they, that they've already had approaches from businesses. So that's great if we've got a stalking horse in the sense of, say, we've done a deal with Bazincorporated for X. And then we encourage these others to come along. Yeah. Well, that'd be cool because every penny counts. I think, Evan, I've got an agency that's speaking to three or four interests of parties or whatever. So that's good. I mean, what, the right move to move away from Sport Paisley, do you think? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's a number of reasons, isn't there? I mean, there's some bad press going on around them because of what's gone on with the politics in the homeland or with the headquartered. It doesn't sit well with most fans, I don't think, that we have a very, very good charity which might be dealing with the consequences of one of our sponsors. The chief exec got challenged on that at the general meeting by Mike Owen and the answer she gave may have been based on she knew what was going on because she talked about it in an ideal world. But notwithstanding that, as part of the PR they've done on it, they haven't dismissed the idea of having another Beccan company, have they? Which is probably just for respect for Sport Paisley. But yeah, of course, it's the right thing. This is a tough one, I think. Where do you sit on things like Beccan companies? Because I know it's something that doesn't sit easy with a lot of people. Where do I sit? Yeah, but basically, it's economics, isn't it really, I think, with football club? I know there's a morality about it and I get that and I understand people's points of view that and that's fine. And then there's the flip side of that is that trying to get as much money as you can for your shit. We've seen other clubs that have Beccan companies for years. Well, yeah, I mean, I think that there's, many of us would say that it depends on how PC you want to become, doesn't it, because you can move on to other things then. I mean, when we've talked about this on business matters, you may take a view that says, and I will answer your question in a sec, but you may take a view that we don't want a Beccan company because then bad people say. Not the companies themselves, but the outcome of it can be bad. But then a bank on the front of your shirt might be good, but they can also cause bad things to happen as well. So you can't totally sanitise everything. And I think that's why the chief exec was right to say the phrase, in an ideal world, we wouldn't want to be with a betting company. Well, the ideal world is someone other than a betting company offers you more money. And so that's the challenge now for whoever this agency is or whoever's doing that deal as a product of the chief execs, commercial review and those sorts of things. To my mind, it just seems a bit odd that we as a football club heavily support a charity that may be dealing with the consequences of something that is not made any easier by our sponsor. So to move them on at no cost, so a termination for convenience is good. It clearly, I'll come back to it, it's a bad business decision if we end up without a sponsor because we're already in the proximity of financial fair play. But of course what we did in December will have woken up potential sponsors to the reality of we could imminently be having a new stadium, they can ride the coattails of that. I'm pretty sure, I mean you said a few minutes ago, and I should have picked you up on it actually, I didn't, but because I didn't think of it until just now, as you said, well angry birds will get replaced. And what you said was because their deals come into an end, well they might renew it. Yeah, Rovio are interested in extending it there. So they want to extend, yeah, but if they want to extend, extending in a world where you're the only show in town, like Changwe for 10 years or something, yeah, it's different from extending it when actually the club with some confidence can say well there's at least one other company who are prepared to compete with you. And then that's the skill then of our commercial people of driving out the best deal. And I once suspect that they certainly should have an overall objective of new shirt manufacturer, new shirt sponsor, new sleeve sponsor added together is greater than umbro, sports pacer and angry birds. Now clearly if the rumour net is to be believed, it's certainly not going to be umbro, yeah, as the manufacturer, because we expect it to be humble. It's certainly not going to be sports pacer for the reasons we've just said, but it might still be angry birds. It might if they come back with this. And they believe don't they? I believe they believe that they've had good value out of what they've got. As they need to determine is whether, when the price goes up, whether the value is still worthwhile for them, and it may be more worthwhile for other companies. And there's some great opportunities out there, you know, and timing is everything. I think again I keep croaking our podcast and you know I mentioned on there maybe just maybe, it's a bit like footballers really, you know. We don't buy players in January do we because it's not a good market. No, and people would, and I think Everton fans in the round and we're touring now to the point where, you know, we think well if we don't get the player we want, let's not just take somebody because we want somebody. And let's just bite our lip and a bit like we did in the summer and do it out of centre back and take that risk. Take the risk, yeah. Rather than end up with a player you've got on your books for three, four, five years that you can't move on. You know, you're bought in a panic type of thing. So it replies with the shirt sponsor. We can't get the right shirt sponsor. Maybe we'll get the right shirt sponsor next year. You know, you know, and have we got the what's it to run without one or to run with Everton community on it for a while. Now all that is down to how clever the financial modelling is and where we are with financial fair play and where we are, you know, with the Premier League type stuff, you know, sustainability rules and all those good things. So it's an interesting time but all those roads for me lead to there's a bird in the hand for the front of shirt sponsor, which is not less than what Sportspacer was. And if there isn't, the club have made a bold decision, which to be loaded for both those things I think. Yeah, I mean, there's enough companies out there who could see the value, would want to put their name on our shirt. Who are they then? Well, you know, we've seen USM, a Finch Farm, actually megafonicwld y sylwnt. There's another 48 companies who Mr Rushman has involved in it. Has some influence over that. That's an interesting one. But what I meant by that was that the bird in the hand that you're talking about, but there might be companies over there going Premier League, being everywhere, we'll have a little bit. And I think that's the key really. I'll answer a lot of you. Yeah, because we talked before about reading between the lines, you know, and I used to do stuff in the utilities and sort of like that, selling services, whatever. And everyone who's got a house that's got electricity has got a supplier of last resort, which fundamentally the local distribution company. So come what may, your lights will stay on, even if the company you buy it from goes out of business or whatever. And we just need to be careful that we don't get ourselves badged as being that Mr Rushman of and his associated companies are the supplier of last resort. Because there's a marketing sell there that needs to be carefully managed if we end up with megafon or something on the front of our shirt. That it's not there simply because we're incapable of getting a third, a true third party company. But it's good to have that in the, you know, well, it's a stocking house. Exactly. You're there and go, well, we have got that. But you know what these and other people are attracted by. And they want something. We want something. Exactly. And the more times you play that card, the more times the closer we potentially get to the risk of someone crying foul because it's a related party through not some through us, but not being some fancy shadow director or anything, but simply because the larger shareholder is the chairman of the holding company. So it's inevitably a related party in that sense. So it's exciting times, you know, and I look forward to some good news coming out soon. Yeah, there is big. There is obviously. When's the shirts ready? Big shirt. Well, you know. Well, the thing with the shirt is in terms of everything won't be able to wear the new kit the last game of the season due to the contractual green and switchball paisel and with umbro. If it is to change, we haven't had it confirmed fully yet that it won't be umbro. So we would still have to wear that kit. So obviously, but let's hope that it's been blindingly obvious for a while. Well, yeah, but let's hope it's ready to go. So if the kit deal with umbro, the agreement with them ends on the 30th of June, let's hope it's ready on July the 1st to be ready to. Well, I said to my mate, and it wasn't on the podcast, so I'll stop pushing that yet, but I said to my mate, there's a great marketing opportunity here because if those agreements end with umbro and with a sports pacer. So sometime in June, if they were ready, they could sell shirts. Yeah. New umbro ones or sexy designs, but they haven't nailed who the sponsor is going to be. Then we can either have shirts without a sponsor or even better from my point of view, shirt with everything in the community on because then there'll be a load of people who'll buy two shirts. Well, yeah, I think so. Saddows like me probably. It'd be good to have one with Ebony. But Ebony's good. How cool would that be? Yeah. But it's again, it's economic. I think if Man City blasts the FFP out of the water, which they may well do, then it becomes a different ball game for everybody. Well, one way or another, FFP is going to change because if City win, it's the end of it in some respects. If they lose, and I think again the way I've said previously is whoever's the next target will want the rules changing. And maybe people will recognise that it's not necessarily working as designed. Or for those big clubs working exactly as they wanted it to? The official versus the unofficial reason. Yeah, it's working perfectly for those influencers. Old money I think I've referred to it as. But it is though, isn't it? The click clubs who sky are interested in at the top of the Premier League because it drives their viewers and their subscriptions. They protect it from someone like Everton. When you've got Jamie Carragher coming out and saying, well, I'm going out as a fair, if Everton have got this ton of money to spend. I've ever known 500 million pounds to spend this summer on plays that they want and they can't because some league rules say you're not allowed to. Then I was that fair because it just means that the six that are getting the money and can spend more will stay further away. I've also said, and I don't know if I'm right or wrong, I'm sure your viewers will know, but I think I might have said it is the only industry in the world but maybe it's one of a few industries in the world where you're not allowed to invest in your own business, which is crazy. That's because of the way the rules hang together. I just wonder, maybe meet a Gapol to have a chat on the next podcast with Tom, what stops an owner gifting money to the football club? Because you're allowed to do that in business as well. Because we are directors loans of course of what we've already got. We've got a shareholder loan and our shareholder loans are huge. So far having a shareholder decide I'm bored with this now, I want my money back, well we go out of business, end of. But we're fully compliant right now this second with financial fair play. So if it's supposed to stop stuff, it's not stopping what they claim it's there to stop. If you focus it because of course break even, which is what the rules about, which is fundamentally profit and loss, that's an accounting number. You know, an objective number is how much cash have you got in the bank? And how much debt have you got? But going back to your views of the world, maybe you should have Pete Mullen on your show, The Manunited Guy who I do me a little podcast with. Because he'll have some views about the glazes and stuff like that. But debt would catch Manunited. Oh, 100. Wish me in bed I've said that. Debt would catch Chelsea, you know. Debt would catch Liverpool. It wouldn't catch Man City. It wouldn't catch Arsenal. Arsenal are the squeakiest cleanest one of the lot in the sense of the way it's done. But even so, even there in Hock to an owner, the reason that they're not in debt is because he's got huge cash piles that he borws against it in the state and stuff. Why can't? I mean, you've just said you can't, you don't understand, you're not sure of the answer why they can't gift the book. Well, maybe you can. So if you can, why don't you? I don't know, maybe you can't. Maybe look it up somebody. What I just think is madness that we are going to finish this now, but what I think is madness that you say, just say for argument, say, Osmanov was like, listen I want to help you make it and we can do this together and make it. That'll be our legacy in this country because that's what they want apparently, this football club to say look what we've built. Why can't he say I'm giving everything £500 million to spend as a gift or give it to Masheri and Masheri gifts because it, like you've just said before, if FSG pull a £430 million loan out of Liverpool interest free what they put in, then Liverpool are nearly half a billion in debt. Now okay, they're a massive football club, someone will come and rescue them because they have who they are. They did last time. They did last time 25 minutes before the deadline. With us, the same, if he pulled a rug then we're knackered, Chelsea have a bram of it. Over a billion. He put 250 million in his own money last year, he still lost £107 million. So how was he able to? They're into, what is it, £1.2 billion? They're 1.2. So you're right, it doesn't, and yet Manchester City and PSG, who were the two that UEFA have gone after, are the two clubs okay, the fund by a country, but neither are they in any debt and yet they're both getting, they're the ones who they've got their eyes on. So it doesn't actually ring through when you think about it because they're on the only way to do that, as Amped said this last week, is introduce something like a salary cap or a spending cap that you're all do together, you're all in it together because that's the only way you can actually manage money. So if you say, John, you own a team and you're only allowed to spend £300 million a year on wages or whatever, whatever it is, that number, £100 million on wages and you've got £300 million in your bank, you're siled, Barry, you can spend £100 million on wages and I've got £30 million in me, or whatever, then that's just up to me to try and manage my money. If you've got more, that's the way it is, it's up to me to try and catch up, but it can't be done if John, you can spend £500 million because you make £500 million, but I can only spend £40 million because I only make £40 million. Do you know what I mean? It's like you're keeping me away. Well, the issue is, and perhaps you can, this is probably really good for one of your live things, right, is that what I call old money, old money, the biggest piles of old money of the red clubs, hence the red alliance I suppose, and it's in their vested interests for the rules to reward historical performance, not future performance. So there will be people watching your show, just like people who listen to podcasts and things, who think, well, I'm not going to put my shoulder behind Man City because they just wanted a pile in with billions of pounds of money from an oil-rich nation, whatever, whatever, whatever, and by success. And so you'll always get into that emotive. Well, someone will just come along and you talk about, and also I've given Evan £500 million rather, what happens if he turns up and gives him £5 billion and we can buy anyone we want? We just go to Messi and offer him stupid money or we go to Neymar and Bappy, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, but history tells us, even if you do that, there's no guarantee you're going to win the goddamn thing. Well, hang on, City, you've got loads of money and Liverpool have walked away with the league this year. Yes, right. Well, they're at the end of the cycle. So I'm just saying, and yeah, John, when we were, we're in stuff in the 80s, we were the Messi millionaires. Well, in the 60s, yeah. You know, what I mean is, there was no Jack, me and Perth were talking about this last week. Jack Walker turned into Blackburn, Blackburn, Rovers, and just went, yeah, we'll spend them, whatever. Roman Abramovich, Chelsea, when I was growing up, Chelsea, and you, you're a bit older than me, Chelsea was in the first division and the second division and electric fences and running stuff. So I don't know if that's skirmongering, in other words, that someone's going to just pour buckets and buckets and buckets of money into a project, you know. And because you can construct rules around that, you know, for every pound you're spending the community, you can spend a pound on the players. Because people forget what City have done, you know, around Eastlands, into the community and all that. Developed all that area. You know, and they've just been trying to do it down in North Liverpool. They've just been creative around football, you know, City Football Group or whatever it's called and clubs around the world and doing what Google's of this world have been doing forever, just selling the bloody brand and having all the costs and so on and so on and so forth. And okay, we're going down a rabbit hole now, but they haven't been done for breaching FFP. They've been done for not telling the truth about where the money come from. That's again a subtlety. It's the classic Colombo moment. They haven't been done for breaching the rules because the guys are really smart, not breaching the rules. They've been caught through some silly emails. Allegedly. The allegedly have breached the rules through breaching the rules in a different way. Allegedly telling lies. So anyway, point is we're, you know, the pitch on the pitch stuff's getting a bit better. The same problems persist about we've got some people who are a drag on the business. They need to be moved on and Colo's fantastico. So let's see what happens. Everything moving in the right direction, fingers crossed on and off the pitch. Big thanks to John. You can check out John on his podcast, which is Everton Business Matters. John, there with the SQ you might know, so it's always happy, always positive. And Tom, Marty, actor stroke, host of Everton Business Matters. Make sure you check that out. Give the video thumbs up, subscribe if you haven't. And if you want more videos, join us on page. And thanks for John. See you later.