 Llywodraeth yw'r unw'r gwlad, oes iddyn nhw'n gwneud i fynd. Felly, rhai'r nodd Beth Elwell. Rwy'n gweithio'r redhat a'r enghraifft. Rwy'n gweithio'r redhat cymaint cerddwyr, a'r llwy fyrdd yma, rwy'n gweithio'r redhat. Rwy'n gweithio'r redhat, rwy'n gweithio'r redhat, rwy'n gweithio'r redhat sydd wedi'i gweithio'r cosbwynau hynny. I'll be covering his section but I've been working with him as I've become a user advocate for the team that I work with which means basically so Michael is a product manager for the user interface team of OpenStack at Red Hat and we work together to make sure that what we're working on helps out communities as well as all of our customers so trying to align those two things and making sure that when we work on our day-to-day basis we're supporting communities, we're supporting business needs and so I really want to talk today about how that works on a really practical basis. Sorry, let me start by saying what actually is OpenStack so on a really fundamental basis OpenStack is a collection of tools that allow you to build and manage cloud computing platforms to public and private clouds. There's lots of scalability and functionality due to all the different components so there's over 40 different components with OpenStack so it's a huge project and it's open source software so it's got 96,000 community members so we're not talking about kind of a time thing in the corner, we're talking about a huge community of individuals who are all gathering together to create something awesome with over 20 million lines of code. So yes is those things, yes it is the ability to, it is those things, it is a cloud computing platform environment for you to be able to manage those things and it is a tool and you can use it just as a tool. Right, like you can download it and set up DevStack or PackStack and you know buy the software and subscription package from Red Hat but ultimately it's a community. This is like the absolute fundamental thing of what open source actually is and what it means on a day-to-day basis and I want to discuss how in a world of business and data and competition how can we work with company goals to make sure that we end up with incredible product, right, when we're dealing with lots of different companies where we as Red Hat are contributors to OpenStack and to other communities, how do we work with other businesses and with all the other needs of individuals of everything else that's happening to make sure that we're supporting our customers but also being true to who we are as a community. So I know people in this room, some people might already be part of the OpenStack community, a lot of you may be part of other communities. Some people might be interested in joining a community and others might be like I don't really have a clue what the community part's about, like I'm here at DevConf, I love software but why does community come into it? And something I really want to take away from this is to get really excited, right, because this is what makes Open Source so great. This is why Red Hat makes such a success out of Open Source because there are so many benefits. You, as a developer, you can go through your day and go, I'm sitting at my computer and I've got a piece of code that I want to write and it's going to fix a bug, full stop. Or you can go, I'm working with over 90,000 people and my day-to-day job is making people's lives better by working with people from all different cultures, all different countries, all different companies and somehow creating something out of it which manages to fulfil needs for lots of different companies. And I think that's something we can be pretty excited about, like that's a phenomenal thing to be a part of. It's so much more than just, I fixed a bug, right? So I really want to read out the Red Hat mission statement because I think it sums up better than any of my own words could really. That our mission is to be the catalyst in communities of customers, contributors and partners creating better technology the Open Source way. And I mean I could end the talk there, like that sums up this talk. You'll notice that it says customers, contributors and partners with commerce. It's not about just business solutions and going, hey, we submit a load of bugs and we fix all your needs and all of that. And oh, by the way, there's a team over there that does it. It's about, we are the catalyst in communities of not just customers, but those communities, but the contributors, but the partners, all encompassing. It's part of who we are as absolutely as an organisation. And that's something to really bear in mind when we're talking about community. And when we recognise that those things go hand in hand and that the priority is not just going, hey, we're just on the business side. Actually, that makes merging community and business needs. You're able to merge them then, right? Because suddenly there's no competition, there's no all the business side is more important or all the community side is more important. If we can understand that as being part of the community we have a responsibility to each other, then that's when we can work together to create better technology and do it in a way which everyone is open to. So what does open source even mean? Let's take it back a step. This is the actual definition from opensource.com that open source software is software with source code that anyone can inspect, modify and enhance. And this quote, which I found when I was doing my research in this presentation, I absolutely love, because it's not about it being just, hey, it's free software, right? You can download it, use it, fantastic. I mean, I know a lot of us who were at last night's party and had a really great evening and had some drinks. But when you have those drinks, the single responsibility that you have there is to, you know, to conduct yourselves appropriately, right? You know, when you've had a few drinks and whatever, let's make sure we're still appropriate. But there's not really a responsibility there. Free as in freedom, that is open source, that is open stack. It's the freedom of speech. It doesn't mean that it's free just to go, hey, we can download it and use it forever and there's no responsibility there. It's the responsibility of the community as a whole to make sure that we are providing something which is then maintained, that we have a freedom of what we can, like, we can go into the community and be like, I don't understand this, or I think we should do things differently. And that's a phenomenal freedom that we have. It's a matter of liberty and not price. So I really, I'm not a salesperson, and I know this isn't the right audience even if I was a salesperson, but I want to touch on this because it relates to the last slide, and whenever we talk about free software, it's a question that I've had from people who don't understand Red Hat and don't understand what I do. Like, you're working on software that's free to work on, like, and anyone can work on it, but then you charge money. It's an enterprise solution, right? We're providing support. We are representing our customers and representing our users upstream in the community and meeting their business needs and allowing them to have a voice in an area where they may not otherwise be able to. So we've talked about what open source is in terms of a definition. What does this actually look like in real life? So there's huge diversity. Everyone is different and that is the absolute beauty of open source. That, you know what, I could be, if we talk about it in the sense of a neighbourhood, right? I might not have a ladder and I might need to wash my windows. If it was just me and I lived on my own little house in a suburban area with no other neighbours, I'd be a bit screwed, right? I'd have to go online and research and find out, oh, where can I hire a ladder from and buy a ladder from? When you live in a community, when you've got neighbours, when you've got people around you, you can go, oh, mate, would you mind if I borrowed you a ladder? Yeah, absolutely. And that is why, I mean, in a community, you don't have to know everything. You don't have to be in the brains of every single thing going on. You can know one particular section and then someone else can know the rest because that's the beauty of it. And then that leads straight on to collaboration, that that's what it's all about. It's about that diversity and everyone having different experiences and different cultures and different languages and then bringing that together. And then contribution, that everyone has something to contribute. It is not just about code. We're going to talk a little bit later about all the different ways that you can contribute, all the different ways that people can contribute to open source. But it's certainly not just code and there's no one section which is more prestigious or, I don't even know what the right word is here to use, but documentation, people say, oh, it's an easy way to contribute. I'd say it's one of the more difficult ways because you've got to understand the software that you're documenting and document it in a way that other people can understand. That's a really hard job. Code reviews, I mean, we're going to go into this in more detail in a little bit, but every single person, whether you're a software expert or it's your first day even looking at code, every person is valuable. So why should you actually care about any of this? Why does open source matter? Why does community matter? If you can just fix the bugs and support the customer, shouldn't that just be it? So there's the ability for us to learn from others, to learn from code reviews. The community is there to ask questions to, so you can become a better engineer and understand more about software as a whole. I've been at OpenStack for three and a half years, and really that's absolutely nothing, right? Three and a half years in the grand scheme of things. There's probably people in this room who've been doing it for like 10 times that long, right? But then there's people who've been doing it for a day who probably also know more than me in certain areas. So, for example, NOVA is a project, is a component of OpenStack. If you ask me a question about NOVA in the Q&A today, I'll be like, I'm going to refer you to the community because I don't have a flipping clue, because I just don't. I don't work with NOVA. But someone who started to work on OpenStack yesterday would probably be able to answer some of those questions. It's not about time. It's not about, you know, as I said, ladder analogy. You can borrow your friend's ladder. You can learn from other people. You get faster fixes from communities. So many people are working on it, maintaining it. That's why we work upstream as a red hat, because once a code is submitted, it's then maintained on our behalf, right? We have a responsibility, as I said earlier, to maintain that, but it's the community, it's the open source way and the whole community's responsibility to then maintain that rather than taking technical debt downstream. And if there's something that clashes with upstream and dealing with all of those issues, you know, that's the beauty of it. Transparency. Use and engineers alike can examine the code to make sure it's not doing anything they don't want it to do, right? Like, it's open, it's available. If people are really concerned about security and things, they can actually go on and be like, oh, oh yeah, like that's good. That's sorted. I feel confident in this. And people who aren't programmers can benefit from it so much because they can use the software for, you know, however they want to use it, right? It's so flexible. And if they want to submit a request, they can do. And everything is ultimately better when we work together, right? Like, as a kind of summary of all of that, when we're working as a team, when it's not just one individual on their own, everything is better, like several minds are better than one. And ultimately, you are the community. Every single person in this room, whether you're an engineer, whether you're a tester, whether you write documentation, whether you've just done a code review once, that makes you part of the community. It's not about coders, it's not about one particular section of specific demographic of human being. Every single person in this room is what this is about. And if ultimately, if you don't care, then what's the point? Then there is no open stack, there is no open source. If you don't care about it, then it no longer exists. So now I'm going to kind of take it to the business side. So how does this work on a day-to-day basis with Red Hat engaging in the community? So we've already talked about some of the key open source principles and the collaboration and the shared problems that we're solving together. Red Hat doesn't just go, this is the open source way, so we're going to kind of go, let's work with that, but it's not really what we believe in. We've already talked about the mission statement of Red Hat. This is a fundamental part of who we are as a company. It's how we work every day. So in traditional businesses, you'll see like this is very much how a traditional business would run, right? You've got the leadership team, they go away, they go away on their retreat, and they come up with their plan, and they go, okay, we're going to have this team doing this, and it's going to look like X, Y and Z, right? I'm sure everyone's worked at companies and things, that's kind of the common cycle of how that works. So an open company does something very different. So there may still be the retreats, because we go away, we go to conferences, people need to get together to make decisions, right? But it's about a strategy. So what happens is the leadership go away and go, what do we want our vision to be for this company as a whole? And so we get a really high level, this is the direction we're going in as a company, because you do need direction, right? But this is where the transparency and the trust comes in, and the open source principles. Because then what happens is something really awesome. They say to everyone else in the company, they go, all right, this is the high level, go and do something awesome with it. And that's when then the company is entrusting individuals who are part of the bigger community to go, all right, we know the community, we know the business need, we know kind of the high level, we're hearing from the field like what our customers' issues are, but we can engage with the community, we know what's going to work and what isn't, right? We know that better, the people on the ground doing the work every day know what's going to work better than the people who are trying to oversee a sea of developers and a sea of an entire company of strategy. You can't drill down into detail when you're trying to look at that many things. And that is an incredible trust that's put in us individuals, but also an incredible responsibility that we have a responsibility to our company and our companies, but also a real responsibility to our community to make sure that we're not taking advantage, we're not going in and going, hey, we're Red Hat, or hey, we're HP, or hey, we are IBM. We're not going in and going, like this is who we are and we're going to now bash through this feature because we think that it's going to make our customers really happy. We have a responsibility to the community to make sure that we're engaging, that we're engaging with the community around us. So where do our priorities actually come from? When we've got the leadership team giving us the really top level, where do they like more direct priorities and the more specific things come from from developers? So people actively hacking, whether it's in a paid role or independent contributors, they're closest to the code, so they're probably going to know where some of the issues are. The consumers, so people using OpenStack on a day-to-day basis, so this is why you have proofreaders, right? When you do an essay, when I was back at school, my parents would like, you know, do my proofreading for me and all of that. Because when you're near the code, sometimes you can't see the width of the trees, right? You can be looking at the same bug day in, day out and get used to it and think it's part of the software, and then a consumer or someone that's using it comes along and goes, yeah, that's not right. Something's not working there. And also, they have different usage needs. I think that's a phrase. But they have different ways of using the software, and therefore they'll find different problems and different things. Our providers, the people who are offering OpenStack to their customers, we want better integrations with portfolio of products. And our vendors, so whether you're talking about hardware, software load balancers, hypervisors, networking cards, they want their software hardware to be, you know, adopted by the community and supported. And then comes from the community. It comes from you as individuals submitting bug reports, submitting feature requests. Everybody in the community has a say. So where do our priorities come from? Not for just upstream, but for Red Hat specifically, like what does this look like for me and Michael and for the rest of the team and for the rest of, you know, the OpenStack side of the company, but also the company in general. So we have upstream bug reports, which is what we've kind of touched on just a minute ago. We have bug reports from Launchpad, which are the bugs which anyone can submit, right? And then we have downstream bug reports, which are specifically given to us by our support teams and from our customers. We also have direct customer conversations. So Michael has a lot of these kind of conversations. So he'll have conversations with people and with customers and they'll say, you know what, this just isn't working. I'm going to talk to me and I'll go, okay, well, we've got these people on our team who might be able to work with us on this. Let's take it to them, because they know that area of the community better than me and see what we can do to make this work. And then, of course, strategic initiatives. So that's the direct from the leadership, the overviews, and there are specific things which we will be told, like, this is the direction the company is going in. What can you do around X? So I'm going to use a case study now of director. Just a bit of an insight into what director actually is. So director is the kind of brains behind Red Hat's open stack platform. It's based on upstream triple O and it supports all modern releases and functionality and supports the broad and red hat portfolio. It has a CLI section and the GUI, so you can use that interchangeably. And this is what my direct team that I work with day to day, we're heavily involved in developing the GUI. That's kind of our main focus, although we have some other areas as well, like horizon upstream and validations for director. But the GUI of director is really what we're working on on a day to day basis. So when we're doing planning, and when we're looking at that, this is an overview of our releases. So down on the left-hand side, you'll see three, four, five, six, seven, et cetera. They're the OSP releases, the open stack platform releases. Then you'll see how that relates to our upstream releases. So OSP 15, which will be released later in the year, will be based on upstream stack. So that's, you know, just so you can kind of, if you ever look at open stack and the upstream ones, the current upstream master is the next release that we're going to take that down, apply any downstream specific bug fixes and send it out. So that's kind of, when we're doing our planning, we're bearing that in mind, and bearing in mind, like, you know, we do know the life cycle and what's coming up next. So when we were doing the planning and when we were talking about things, we realised that there was a real issue which we had to solve, and that was a networking wizard. So the first issue we had was the complexity. Networking is complex enough just with the basic deployment, right? It has a significant number of interconnected pieces and lots of things going on all the time. And the number of templates and parameters are completely unmanagable in the UI with a complex deployment. If you've got a basic one, you're fully all right. So as it gets complex, I'll tell you what, we've had some issues even internally in the team. It's just like, it's been a problem. And we've got configuration issues. It's the top cause, like this networking is the top cause for failed deployments. And there's not a really good way at the moment for representing this visually. How are we going to make this work on a practical, what's it going to look like? But where do we even find this out from? How did we know this was a problem? So we had customers who were filing support tickets and being like, this is a problem for us. We need to work out how this is going to work. We had customer meetings. Again, a lot of this came from Michael, but from other people on the team as well when they've met with customers. They're talking about their experiences and telling us. And then feedback from the field. So our own engineers who deploy OpenStack on a daily basis, they're aware of this issue. And it was the fact that we were hearing it from so many different directions that we knew we had to make it a priority. So what happened then? We knew it was a priority. Great, you know it's a priority. Let's keep on going with everything else. We knew we had a problem. So we decided that we would have a strategic priority for the team to work on it. We needed to get other people's help because, again, community, right? Just the UI team on their own wouldn't be able to solve this. We needed other help. We needed design and documentation teams and networking teams help. So in reality, this was kind of three key stages. Prototyping and wireframing, development, followed by testing and documentation. So you're not going to be able to read that. I'm not hoping that you'll be able to read that. That's to give you an idea of what it looks like on a really overview scale. So that's actually the prototyping of the prototype of the network wizard, which is currently in development, which will be being released over the next two releases, which we're really excited about. So we got help from the UX teams and the UI teams together working to create this prototype to be like, what does this need to look like? How are we going to solve the visual issue? Development. So this particular patch, and this is where things get even more... It's very hard to predict time for people who work in communities. It's really difficult to work out how long things are going to take because it might take two weeks to fix the code and to write the code, but actually it could take four months for the code to then merge. Because this patch, for example, it was first uploaded on February 28th in 2018. It merged July 9th. That was due to just all the conversations and working with the community, and this is where it's so helpful getting feedback from the community at large, but you've also got to be understanding what these and different needs to be like. We need to support you. We need to support the general community, not just Red Hat, and Red Hat get that, and it's a fundamental part of who we are in order to support and maintain open source as we know it. And then what will happen then? You can see that's just kind of my... my overview of my home page of Polarium, which is our testing suite here at Red Hat, and currently I have no items in my tasks for testing, which I always like to see. We've kind of just finished off a release, and so that's looking really pretty for me right now. That's what I like to see. But this is where we'd go to then test and document and make sure that everything's in place. So that's on a really fundamental basis and a really... that's a case study basically of how we have gone from... We've got a business need. We've got a business need in the community. So do you want... If you wanted to be involved, how could you get involved in the community? You're a smith in code. This is kind of the obvious one. If you think of open source software, you think of code. But there's lots of other ways, and they, as I said earlier, they are just as vital and they are absolutely as important. Code reviews. I just talked about that other patch is because people have opinions and because people want to make sure that what's getting into the release is the best possible thing. And that's really exciting and that's really cool. It's incredibly helpful because it's a proofread. It's not just a proofread, but it's making sure it actually works. It's making sure that what gets into a release is something that's really awesome, not just for our customers, but for us as individuals and us as a community, because we own this. It's not that Red Hat owns it. It's not that any other company owns it. We, we as a group, we own, we own this work. And again, with great power comes great responsibility and all that. Writing or editing documentation and specifically, according to your experience. So, I don't know how many other English people I know in the room and I'm pretty sure not a lot of you, like there's a few people I know in the room, but not loads. And if I start to speak really, really fast in going like this, if I did my whole presentation like that, is anyone here who would have a problem understanding me for 50 minutes? No one, no one would have a problem understanding me if I spoke really fast? Fantastic. I get told I do speak too fast anyway, so I'm really glad to know that. But my family understand me, when I speak like that over Christmas and things, but people who don't always know me, who have a different accent, may not always understand what I'm talking about. And that's the same with documentation, right? If you're working on something day in, day out, every single day, then you will be writing documentation based on that and not based on someone who's coming along to it for the first time. If you are brand new to a project, you might not understand all the other bits of the information that go along with it, which have been skipped over because someone's written documentation based on them already knowing half the story. You can give engineers feedback and bug reports. Oh my gosh, please, this is so helpful when you are 100% part of the community for just giving us feedback, like we love feedback and features and blueprints. So taking a few minutes to request something can be a seed that then creates a tree. So I want to use the example of the networking tool again. So Yirca. Yirca is a member of the team that I work with and he, for him, triple OUI, which is director, for OSP. He really, he was the guy that first started creating triple OUI and making it work. And so it's his baby, right? He's really protective of it. It's something that he's really passionate about. And it's a real player, it's a pleasure working with him. He works, I've never actually in any way, he works insane hours because it's his thing, it's his brainchild. But when then we came along with the networking wisdom going, hey, this is something we want to work on, he was like, oh my gosh, this is so exciting, let's work on this, let's do a really great job. And that's really awesome, right? That wasn't his idea, he didn't come along and go, we're going to work on this. It's something that came from customers and came from the community and he grabbed hold and the rest of the team grabbed hold and now it's coming to fruition and it's going to be flipping awesome. I'm so excited for that to be part of, I'm so excited for it. And that's just one seed, right? That originally came from a few different people going, this is something we need, right? This isn't working as well as it could do. And those people could have stayed silent but now we've got something better because those people spoke up. And you can join IRC and chat to your community. So if you want to come and just have a chat and be like, I don't understand this, it's 100% open for you to be able to do that. It's not a scary community, it's a really, really open community and a community means it's not just, a community means that you can talk, right? You can talk openly. There's loads of resources out there which I have a slide for at the end to go over to be like if you want to get started and what is open source. There's tons of links, right? You can go to any of those links and find out what open source is and what open stack is and how to get involved and how to submit a patch. You can do all those things, right? But you can probably do that without me. I don't want to bore you here. You know? But I want to go over a couple of misconceptions of what open stack is not because these are things that people can assume and I've assumed at certain points in my career of oh gosh, open stack is about who knows the most. I've only been at open stack for a year or two years or three years. There's people who know so much more than me and it's true. There's lots of people who know more than me. There's some people who don't know what I know. But it's not about who knows the most in the room. It's about everyone knowing different pieces of the puzzle and putting it together to create something better. It's not about who's submitted the most patches, right? It's not about oh, so and so's submitted like 100 patches this month. Fan-flipping-tastic, like oh my word, they're the superstar developer of the year. Fantastic that they've submitted 100 patches. That's awesome. It gets things done. But also getting things done is talking to a community and talking and networking. Being here at DevConf, right? Talking to each other and doing real life with each other. Because that's what actually gets those patches merged. That's what means that people go I don't understand why you're trying to do network with it. Can you talk to me a bit more about this? It's not about whose voice is the loudest. We all know the people in the room who will be very, very loud and have a lot to say and who speak through most of the voice. You know when you're doing a workshop they're speaking nonstop. And we need those people. We do. Because what they have to say is really valuable too. But we have to also remember the quiet person who might only say one sentence all day. But that one sentence, if it's not listened to, that sentence could have changed the face of the project and the component. Because often the quiet people are the people who think very long and hard about what they say and then it's incredibly poignant to the point and can really make a difference. There's no one right way, one wrong way but it's not about who's the loudest in the room. It's about everyone in the room. And it's not about any one group or person. We've already talked about diversity. There's people from so many cultures all walks of life, political views, religious views. It's not about that. It really isn't about that. It's about every single person. If we can remember that and if we can embrace that isn't that an awesome place to work? Isn't that an awesome thing to be a part of? I want to talk briefly about ironic bare matter. It's not something I work directly on anymore. I can see Julia smiling at the back. I worked very closely with Julia on this. I want to tell a story of how I first became involved in OpenStack. I come from a web development company. Before three and a half years ago when I joined OpenStack, at that point I was working with HP, I was working at a small web development company in a small rural area in England and I thought jQuery was the best thing ever and I know there's people right here, right now who are going oh dear god there we go. That's where I was. And then I joined HP and for my very first week at the company I was invited to Seattle to join the ironic bare matter provisioning mid-cycle which was placed right in the middle of an OpenStack upstream release to discuss how was the release going were we on track trying to plan a bit for the next release so that's what I went along to and I saw the bear and saw the logo and I was like cool, bare metal. Are we talking about bears doing metal music in a jungle in a wood? I mean I'm not even, that's a bit of an exaggeration but we're not a million miles I was like I have no clue and I was sitting there and I can remember sitting with Julia and with Chris Crowe and then like explaining to me what bare metal was and I was sitting there and oh my gosh literally for like a few paragraphs I was just like I need to tell them that I'm not understanding a word of this but they are going, what am I even doing here am I in the right place, am I in the right job ah you know what the heck, what the heck am I going to do and then I said to them look I need you to repeat that but in like toddler English because like all of those words meant nothing to me and I was expecting to be really judged but actually what happened was something really awesome and it's the reason I can guarantee that I'm open stacked today and why I'm really passionate about community and why I'm talking about this today that was like the seed because they didn't judge me, they didn't say oh what the heck are you doing at HP in open stack, what are you doing what they said was okay let's make like that's awesome like you can write a documentation, you can make it easier for people to understand they said you're so welcome here and we care about you and we want to make you feel accepted in this community and that is like that sums up community in open source right but I didn't know a lot I knew kind of barely enough but actually that acceptance made me really like oh my gosh I really want to be part of this and get excited about it and go on to develop the ironic user interface with horizon and have those conversations and I learnt so so much just because a few people were willing to go yeah let's help you learn let's take time out of our day and time out of our everyday lives and that's when we're merging business needs with community because companies are paying people like Julia and like Chris to do work and some of those hours were spent training me is that fulfilling a business need absolutely it is is it fulfilling a community need absolutely it is it's about understanding what community is and then taking that away and making it part of our everyday business ultimately ultimately it's all about people it's coming together to make something awesome and that is exciting whether you're here as a user as an engineer as a tester whatever journey you're in at the moment being here at DevConf you are part of this you are part of making business needs part of the community you can go back to your business and be like hey we can do something better if we work globally if we work with other people from different cultures and different backgrounds so I've got we've got about 10 minutes to have some Q&A and then after I just want to briefly show you the slide that I said about with the links on it and I'll make this presentation available then after that so if anyone then wants to look at that and have those links to be able to go away in a different way you're obviously more than welcome to do so go for it right that's a really good point and a really good question so what the question was was what happens when goals don't align when Red Hat has customer requirements that we need to get upstream but then upstream there's an argument that we don't want this upstream right so that's where relationship and the networking and the community side comes in right so it's about on a day to day basis trying to help people understand like this is what we want to do can we create at mid cycles and at the PTG the project team gathering we get together and go these are all the ideas throw them on the table lots of arguments and friendly arguments and discussions and try and find a compromise try and find a way that can we do something that's maybe not exactly what we thought but it aligns with everything and then if we can't do that if we really hit a buffer we don't want to do this but what we can do is then we take downstream debt so if we have an urgent customer issue that we just can't get into the community what then happens is it's part of Red Hat's version of OpenStack so Red Hat OpenStack platform that's where it then gets taken and it's then called technical debt as in if it then clashes with something upstream we've got to merge those conflicts and fix those so it's it's not what we want to do but we can do it did that answer your question fantastic so the question was with a new project with a new component how would you get new contributor like how would you get that having some motion yeah so I mean these are suggestions there is no kind of one fix like solution I would I would say you know the best thing to do is not to go in and to be like I'm going to come up with this new project and this is going to be amazing it's better to kind of go in and be like let's see what there is already and talk to other people in the community form relationships and form networking because there's a lot of people in the community then who can help you so this is again the Bory Ladder analogy right we can go okay we've got what's a similar like what who do we need to talk to because everything has to work together right it's although it's all different projects and components it's all all back rule, fordora rule they're all part of the community and so it's then kind of compiling making sure that you're talking to the projects and the people who you'll need to your project to work closely with maybe joining that for a cycle going to the PTG the project team gathering and like going and engaging with that community and then maybe after a PTG going hey so this is my idea this is what we're trying to do like we I really really would love your support and then you've got not just you're not trying to on your own then right then you've got a whole other load of people around you to support you and to move it forward which then you know if you've got one person trying to network it's much more effective if you've got 20 people or 100 people all networking on your behalf does that is that does that kind of help is that helpful for you any other questions that's my really fun like a list of loads of links and I know everyone can google and whatever so there's lots of other links and lots of other resources out there but there's some kind of key ones which I want to provide of you know talking about what is open source the list of all the different open stack components how to get started on open stack if you want to be more involved in open stack itself that's a great place to get started there's also documentation contributor guide because I really I've talked about documentation a lot but I think it gets so underrepresented and so like talk down as our documentation is just something that people do when they can't code and it's a million miles from the truth and I really really want to represent the documentation community today and be like actually they do a flipping phenomenal job IRC channels that's a list of like a whole load of the open stack IRC channels so if you want to come and just jump on a channel and be like hi we're all friendly you know we're very open to being chatted to and then there's a list of like talking about red hat open stack so kind of in answer to the specific question of the downstream you'll have more information there as well about how that works submitting a first patch launch pad upstream bugs and blueprints so there's just a few kind of snapshot links that if you want to go check them out and be like what does that look like and yeah I hope that's helpful for people and finally I just want to close on saying yeah open stacks a tool it is Fedora's a tool they're all tools that do things right but if you can go away with one thing today I would say go away knowing I don't want you to think of it as a tool think of it as a community that makes something awesome because honestly that's what this is all about that's why we're at DevConf that's why I'm talking to you that's the point of all of this and thank you so much for your time I really enjoyed speaking to you and if you want to get in touch with me that's my email address and my IRC details and you're more than welcome to contact me anytime