 Hello and welcome to People's Dispatch. Today we're going to be talking about the situation in Lebanon where over the past few weeks there have been fresh waves of protest. We have been covering the situation in Lebanon regularly for the past many months where there was a very huge popular uprising known as Itifada where hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets protesting not only against the government of that time but also the entire political system and this brought about a lot of political churning, a lot of initiatives which debated the very nature of politics or society of life in Lebanon itself and there have been fresh waves of protest recently so to talk more about this we have with us Bashir Nahal of the Lebanese Communist Party. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, thank you. Yes so the first question is that the latest rounds of protest there have been at least two to three rounds have happened after the COVID-19 lockdown restrictions were eased and they've also been taking place amid a very severe economic crisis. So could you first talk about what has been the nature of the protests, the kind of participation that has taken place, the characters were playing in this? Just after the like with a bit of easing with the quarantine and everything surrounding the COVID-19 epidemic what's been happening is there was actually more action on the street, more protests happening throughout Lebanon, it wasn't actually centralized and the capital only there were several things happening in Tripoli for example in the south and the Bik'ah and different regions so what we saw is that with the COVID-19 epidemic and the economic crisis that was actually happening well before it more and more a pressure was put on the working classes and on the lower like or more disenfranchised population in Lebanon. So we saw more demands happening on the street several groups some people maybe individuals some of them organized and parties or organizations other simply let's say spontaneous actions happening and in some places they were somewhat happening at the same time so it's as with all popular uprisings it's a plethora of demands plethora of different sided people and organizations so we can't really say it's all homogeneous there are different demands different groups some of them with certain agendas others with other agendas but and all in all we can say that it's mostly based on the material conditions of people that people are being put through and the economic crisis that's been happening for so long so that's basically been accumulating and leading to to the situation that we're in right now. So could you talk about what some of the key demands that various sections are raising? So these demands as we said there are different groups different political leaning people so these demands cover the whole spectrum some people maybe simply demand some form of reform in the system or or more rights maybe some of them actually are like go through the sectarian discourse that's been happening but others are more progressive others talk more from the perspective of the disenfranchised people and the working class so we see the demands of let's say not only reform in the system but actually a need for structural change in the system because of what it has led us to the belief that the system that led us to where we are right now can't fix the mistakes or whatever it led to so we see demands for like getting rid of sectarianism and fighting the clientelism that the sectarian parties abuse to actually divide the people and to make them clients for the sectarian parties instead of instead of them being citizens and a state where they can demand for better rights at the same time we have demands for the 1% to get the brunt of the issue that we've reached right now instead of that let's say responsibility falling on the working classes and the people who can't actually hold that that responsibility they they didn't have any say in the economic decision making or the political discourse that's been happening they had no role and very little room to to actually voice their demands so now that the sectarian parties and the ruling class got us into this they actually also want to put the blame on us and make us pay for that through austerity measures through working with the IMF and the the world bank so that's all a sort of a fight or a struggle between the 1% that wants to get rid of or run away from holding any responsibility and from the remainder of the population that wants to hold them responsible and wants to actually change the system to become a more equal one where they can actually live as citizens in a state and as a people on this land instead of people according to their sect and according to their political affiliations and in this context how is the Lebanese Communist Party organizing and what are some of the key demands around which it is mobilizing people so this the Lebanese Communist Party one of its main contributions is that it's actually present and nearly all the Lebanese on nearly all the Lebanese territory from the capital to the peripheries we might say and and the north and the south and it's been trying to to to uphold that to prove that actually it's an uprising that is nationwide and it's not only some demands that can be met with some reforms no it's actually an uprising that is nationwide and that can't be divided through sectarianism because if you only had this uprising happening in certain areas you can play on the sectarian discourse that oh these are demanding more rights for the sect or they're trying to as some ruling parties or most of them actually are saying is that it's for an agenda is trying to play into this so what's most important is to have this uprising like get its demand across through all the the Lebanese party and these demands need to be a push to become more radical and more progressive and that's that's actually what we're trying to do and what we've been trying to do to to erase the ceiling of of of what we can hope to reach or what we can dream of of reaching eventually so this this at the same time is not only the work of the Lebanese Communist Party but with other leftist organizations with other people who are in the same like a political affiliation on this and actually we can also see that these demands are becoming more if you might say mainstream they're becoming more accepted by the general population if we look back a bit to the 2011 let's say protests that were aiming at destroying or fall of the sectarian system the demands were somewhat lower and the discourse was more liberal and more aimed towards the middle class same with the 2015 you stink movement if you might say it was more focused on certain demands and reforms related to the to the trash crisis now we hear protesters and even normal people on the ground just talking about the class issue talking about the 1% versus the 99% talking about the need to organize to to to revolt and move this uprising to become actually a full-blown revolution so we can reach what we want so these demands if you might say as as as political demands as as economic demands from the Communist Party we might look at the program that it presented to the uprising and to the organizers and people that are taking part in it and as always it included a demand to have a government that is somewhat independent somewhat interim government as you might say with special powers or with further powers focused on delinking or moving towards an economy that is productive instead of being a rentier economy so these are the demands that that we are presenting that we need to move towards such an economy that that will allow us eventually to meet whatever demands we might say as as the as the working class is demanding but at the same time we also acknowledge that these demands cannot be reached by the the ruling parties or the ruling class that that is there right now they they simply won't give us anything for free they won't just give the power that they've had for around 30 years just give it away for that so that's why we need to form a sort of a front a sort of a pressuring really like somewhat of a also very inclusive a group of the population that is nationwide that that is sectarian-wide so they don't play on that discourse and that also has a different maybe somewhat different demands sort of more freedom and choosing those but but they have common goals and they're common common struggle to push for so that's what is the end goal because that's the only way that we can reach a better situation than the one we are heading to right now and finally could you just also talk a bit about how mobilizing and organizing has been in the context to the COVID-19 pandemic as in what are the challenges the pandemic has presented because across the world this is a question that faces the left also how in these times with so much uncertainty how do you how do you visualize mobilizing its struggles it's actually been a pretty challenging because at the same time with with the COVID-19 pandemic happening it was also a period where the uprising was going into a downturn if you might say so several conditions linked together to make it even more challenging so at first it showed that we needed more like to update our tools to to get on with with solving these issues that we were facing something as simple as normal that as we saw before like just meeting between three four people face to face over lunch let's say was impossible wasn't happening anymore so something as basic as that had to be reformed to to to find more solutions um online meetings online scheduled some like meetings and and other stuff did help did support in that aspect but the the outcome was was seen as it had its effect because people were less willing and it was even actually dangerous to ask people to get on the ground to mobilize so at the same time it was a bit of a dilemma between seeing the conditions worsening but also you can't really endanger people with calling for those protests and to put them through that risk and actually it's it wasn't us as organizers that that broke that actually we saw that during the pandemic people by themselves chose that or saw that the danger with catching the disease was less dangerous or less risky than to actually go on with these worsening economic conditions so they mobilize themselves on their own we saw spontaneous protests happening all over the country even through the quarantine and with the ease the loosening of these the quarantine or um conditions that were put in place we are more able to maybe mobilize to to to have more freedom on on what to to to use as tools on the ground so it's something that is always being updated being followed and um yeah that's that's what's happening thank you so much for talking to us you're welcome you're welcome that's all we have time for today keep watching People's Dispatch