 How do we do exploratory calls with potential clients? I've made the mistake where, and by the way, generally speaking, I've noticed that longer exploratory calls tend to result more in paying clients than shorter ones. So 90 minutes tend to get more clients than 60 minute calls, 60 minute calls tend to get more clients than 30 minute calls, et cetera, et cetera. There are always exceptions, but how do we do those calls, whether we do 60 minutes or 30 minutes, for example? I've made the mistake where I'm like trying to like prove myself on the call. How many of you can relate to that? It's like, I'm going to try to sound as smart as I possibly can. I'm like, oh yeah, you need this resource. Oh yeah, and then here's another good resource. And oh yeah, have you ever thought of doing these five things? It just makes the person go, wow, working with you, working with you is not a pleasant experience because it feels rushed, it feels overwhelming. And thank you, I now have homework for the next 10 years. Goodbye. And even if I need help with all that homework, I don't think I'm going to come back to you because every time I come back to you, you're just going to give me another 10 years of work. So basically, the exploratory call needs to be, it needs to be, well, of course, I hope it's a pleasant experience for both parties. But for the potential client, a pleasant experience means something like, did the coach or the consultant, do I feel like they care about me? Do I feel like they are a good listener and that they understand what I'm really going through and where I'm really at? And do I feel confident that they have some framework that will get me from here where I'm at to where I want to go or the kind of transformation that I'm seeking, the kind of experience that I want to have? That's it, I mean, so how can we accomplish in the 30 to 60 and 90 minute call? That's really, and I've had recently, fairly recently a sales call where I was the potential client and I was talking to somebody who teaches sales for a living. So I was like, my goodness, I'm in for a great experience, right? They teach people how to do this stuff. I want to know, I want to experience what that's like. And so I went on there and I was surprised and disappointed because number one, it was not one person, but it was two people. I wasn't expecting two people on the call and I could tell that they were training a new person. Now, still the main person was doing all the talking but the second person, I just felt weird. They were taking notes the whole time. I'm like, fuck, I'm sorry, sorry. Who is this person? I mean, yes, they introduced that person but they didn't, it wouldn't even been better to say, hey, is it okay if Bob is on the call as an apprentice and everything you say is confidential, Bob's absolutely to us. Nothing like that. It's just Bob, hi, this is Bob, I'm George and this is Bob and then Bob's never said a word for the rest of the call. I was like, what in the world is this? And then the main person, the sales expert, I just felt like he had a checklist to go through. It was like, all right. And number one, he didn't even, I felt like he didn't even read the form that I filled out in preparation for the call because he was asking me questions that were clearly on the form. I, he was like, so tell me what stage of your business? I'm like, I effing wrote that out. I spent five, 10 minutes, even if it was five or 10 minutes to write that out, I would have preferred that you said, so based on what I read and based on looking your website, based on some research I could do of you, your public information that I could easily find, but no, it's like, it's like you never even knew who I was coming to the call. It's like, like, if you're gonna do a call with a prospective client, just at least spend the five minutes to look up what you can find easily online. They don't, they don't feel like you're stalking them, but at least like, oh, well, based on your website or based on your LinkedIn profile, which everybody can see, or based on your Facebook, you know, public information, you know, whatever. So, or just based on what you wrote to me, this is, am I hearing right? But I wanna hear from you because I wanna make sure that, that, you know, I can help you direct you to the right resource, whether it's my service or something else that can help you. So I just felt like he was, it was kind of working with checklist, like getting me to talk about my, yeah, sure, he was getting me to talk about my problems, but I felt like it was in the way where he could then bridge to his solution rather than that he actually cares about my problem. Right? So number two was that he was always trying to like, yeah, he was trying to build credibility to be who's like showing off. Like, well, you know, with one of our clients, we were able to get six figures in 18 minutes. And the kind of stuff I'm like, knowing my industry or at least knowing this, I'm like, yeah, that's probably one out of 1,000 people you'll ever work with, right? That anyway, it's like these ridiculous, these examples where like, that doesn't sound in the realm of normal human possibility. And so if we are going to give credibility building, really credibility is most built in a call by caring. Like, my God, this is a human being who actually cares about me. Like I want to be that person's friend. It's like the number one credibility builder. Anyway, and then, but if you want to say, you know what, I am really glad that we're talking because from what you said, I mean, it literally reminds me of a recent client that I worked with because they also were going through this exact thing. And what we did was we went through my five step process. I can talk about that if you want, but basic, you know, my five step process of going from here to there. And now, I mean, like I said, that person reminds me of you. Now they're experiencing this. And this is the kind of work that I just, you know, fills my heart with so much gladness. You know, this kind of warmth and is the kind of sales call I was hoping for from a sales expert, but that's not what I got. And also, yeah, and just, you could tell from the person's face whether they like you or not. I mean, that's a deep and like, like if you could help the client feel that there's one more person in the world who likes them, that's a huge difference, right? It's like the person that I was talking to sales experts was like, yeah, and then, okay, yeah. Yeah, and then, so this is what we did with our clients. And yeah, so, yeah, anyway. You know, my favorite technique is blah, blah, blah. It's like, and I actually took notes. I did get something from his favorite technique, which was kind of a salesy and technique that I wouldn't personally use, but that was his favorite technique. Okay, got it. So even whatever technique we share, if it's not the right fit for the client, it's good to know, because then you'll know it's not the right fit. But if it is right, if it is the right fit, if a potential client is like, wow, that makes so much sense. Or wow, I'm, you know, I feel like I can really see how this works. Then you could, out of an abundance of joy and connection, you could say, that's awesome, because you are the kind of person I love working with, genuinely, you know? And so do you have any questions about anything, any other questions about my service? Like that's how I do my selling. It's like the, the fine, the sales question I ask is, do you have any questions about how I work with clients? We have five minutes left. Do you have any questions? And then I'll say, well, how much does it cost? You know, and then we can go into the price education part of it. Anyway, just FYI as a general guidance on how do we do exploratory calls? I hope this helps. A couple of comments I wanna bring forward from those who are live here. Thank you, Sarah, for mentioning that, you know, definitely be a great listener and be prepped in advance and don't be stingy with advice. Give them a few tips to show that you have value to give them. Yes, and remembering that we have to also be careful to balance it out with just enough where they feel like, oh, this is something I think I can do and not feel overwhelmed with to say, great, now I have 10 years of work ahead of me or even six months of work ahead of me. No, it's like, oh, I think I could do this today, you know, or I think I could do this in the next week and then I should come back to you and like find out what I should do after that. I once have, you know, so yes, just enough that gives them a sense of I can do this. I can do this, you know, you're gonna help me feel like I can do this, right? And yes, great, great, reiteration here from Sinan says, yes, exploratory call. It's not a random coaching session. They should give that long term perspective, yes. You give them, they need to feel confident that you're able to diagnose the root cause of their issue, challenge, problem, situation, yearning, that you understand number one and that you understand the framework of how the stuff works that, you know, and then, oh, Mike, great question. This is, is there any drawback in offering a shorter session but then willing to go longer if there's resonance? I think so, here's why I think so because if you scheduled for 30 minutes, even if we're having a really good time, I might be like, I'm having a good time with you and maybe I don't have anything scheduled but we can keep talking for 60 minutes. Later on, I might go, wow, talking with Mike, sometimes. So it sets the pattern of, oh, you know, when Mike says 30 minutes, he doesn't mean 30 minutes. So this is why it's better to schedule 60 minutes and then there's no resonance, we talk for 15 because then we both have extra time in our day. You see what I mean? But obviously you put that in your account for 60 minutes and you have an extra 45 minutes to, you know, write a blog post or something like that about who is not the right fit for you. So yeah, that's, I hope that helps. And Elaine has confirmed that, you know, she's found that 60 minute calls work well with a clear framework. So yeah, that's helpful. Thank you.