 Hey Matt, do you think that anybody can tell that we're filming this like at my house and that I'm not wearing pants or? So you can't tell Perfect excellent. Well, hopefully everybody enjoys today's video. We're talking about Things that are unforeseen. How low will PCP prices get in the future? Who knows? Tom and I are gonna talk about it You guys are gonna watch hopefully enjoy it. Let us know down below in the comments. I Will not get into the Benjamin discovery But yes, I will Crossman was buying guns from England and putting I think Logan and they were putting their name on them They actually weren't even putting their name on they were just selling them as crossman Logan guns. Okay. Yeah Well, didn't work with the early 90s. Yeah, everybody said no, that's Logan Why wouldn't I go just straight to them and save the money? So they did So I went to crossman with a idea and I took one gun to them and I said we can make a gun We can put it in a box and put a pump in with it and sell the whole thing for $250 Well, Ed said hmm He took a 2260 and Turned it into a gun that worked at 2000 psi that was the important thing because you're gonna use the hand pump. You don't want it to go too high And that's where your Discovery came from my first PCP by the way for the folks at home. Yeah That was a great one, but they didn't do it for $250. They did it for around $400 with the pump. Yeah with the pump. Yeah, okay. I understand So then I did a blog on the hundred dollar PCP. I remember. Yeah In fact, I have that gun still I just bought it back at an air gun show and Two years later Crossman met me at the shot show on media day, which is when we go out to the ranges and They said we've built the hundred dollar PCP and they came out with the Maximus Well, it wasn't a hundred dollar PCP It was a $200 PCP and within a year. It had become a $229 PCP, but they were trying And let's face it Tyler a company is largest crossmen and they are big in the air gun world They've got a big overhead. Yeah So to run something through that company you you get all this stuff piled on top of it And they got to make money They're doing the best they can If they could get People to work for ten dollars an hour. Oh boy. Happy day. Yeah, can't do that. Right Have we seen the lowest of the low? I don't know You know, there was a time where that was at the wildfire Remember that yeah, which was basically for those of 1077 on HPA, you know Was selling for sub $200. I want to say 170 or 180. Yeah I think right now probably the Diana storm rider, you know, is that that low at low mark like 220 230 something like that Or the beam in chief. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, you got a couple options there And you do have some pistol offerings, you know that come out of China that are lower than that But I'm not sure how much lower they can go because at the end of the day You still want to pack the thing with attractive features, you know, that brings up one name In my mind, the Avenger. Sure And that gun is designed for air gunners. It's designed for shooters But it was also designed after they got all the good stuff in it It was also designed to be manufactured at a reasonable price Oh my gosh Well, it's not as good as a marauder. Well, I beg to differ There are parts of the of the Avenger that are just as good as the marauder Things the Avenger can do that the marauder can't do as it comes out of the box So Bear in mind. It's also two hundred dollars less. I think you're right. We probably have gone as low as we can go So I think what we're going to see is maybe the prices will stay about where they are now, but the features Will increase how many more features can you pack in? Well, we want them to be quiet. We want the triggers to be good. That's a feature we could always do better. Yeah We want to get lots of shots And adjustability and my gosh, the Avenger's got all of that Well, sure, you know, I look at it and I say, okay, you know, you have one gun In that kind of three four hundred dollar price range that gives you the adjustability and you know, kind of the bells and whistles Right, you know side lever breach and you know all of those things and then you have Your gauntlet which the gauntlet two and specific is really like The powerhouse of the of the inexpensive pcps, which is great side lever because it's so hard I'm sure a lot of folks do. Yeah. I don't find it that bad. There's a there's a way to do it No way not to do it for sure You know, but you also have like umarex brings out the origin Which I think is a really intriguing offering Functions off of a similar system to the Seneca Aspen So there's a like a balancer inside of that air cylinder that as you pump it up Gives you less volume but higher pressure and then this balancer moves in the tube as you shoot it and gives you more volume at a lower pressure Cool makes sense, right keeps shots nice and consistent But what it really does is gives you the ability to pump the gun very few times and get some full power shots, right? Which is a really interesting concept and it's a side lever gun Not doesn't have all the adjustable bells and whistles, but they brought it out with a hand pump for 350 It's doing pretty good. Yeah, you know, there's a lot of interesting things that have come out and You know, even the aspen is a good example of another interesting inexpensive gun Not my favorite personally, uh, you know But it shoots typically and it's got a lot of nice features built in really the only Multi-pump PCP out there right now You know, I don't know what's next But I agree with you that we're going to start to see More of those high-end like kind of things that are typically left for the thousand dollar plus crowd Trickle into those lower price points. Well, that brings up an interesting point because back in 2006 when we We me and crossman were working on what became the discovery I told them they wanted to make the marauder Ed Schultz their lead engineer was all set to go Well, they didn't have a reputation for building pre-charged guns It was wrong at that time for them to come out with a wonky doodle pre-charged gun I said come out with this basic gun And give it a year not only will your reputation become established But you'll also learn how to build pre-charged guns in this shop And they did they did all of that And suddenly what you saw because prior to that Your cheapest pre-charged gun was $600 At probably a day state huntsman or something like that. Sure. Okay. Okay Well, now what do you see you see guys fighting at that level at that price point The marauder you said was $200 more. Yeah, it's 500 and what change And it's got all the features you could possibly want. Oh my gosh So what's happened is The world of expensive pre-charged guns has sort of been busted up. However comma There are still some pre-charged guns that go for 1500 and above And they're selling very well. Sure. They're hard to keep on the shelf. Sure, which you know better than I do Yeah, sure. I mean your your raws your FX impacts like all those guns are Selling quite well and it's so I think part of that is a graduation process We've seen from users that started with a marauder or a discovery that are like Now I'm ready for something for this real high end, right? They've owned a couple in that $1,000 price range, you know traded around gotten some experience They kind of know what they like know what they want And they're that's what they're stepping into. I have an air arms S5 10 excess It's the one with the Laminated stock and I think they're $1,700 now ish I Love that gun It isn't competitive with a raw or an FX. They're more powerful They shoot farther But I love that gun because I know I can go to it and it'll always be What it is which is very accurate at the distances that I'm comfortable shooting at which would be out to 50 yards Beyond that. No, but out to 50 yards. That's a great little gun And I've got a meoptoscope on I've got a six seven hundred dollar scope Sitting on top of that gun because I'm so proud of the gun So yeah, I bought that one. I was testing and I was going to send it back I can't send that back and I almost bought the next one was the Avenger that I tested It was just as accurate But it didn't have the trigger right which I wouldn't expect it to right being what one The cost or something like that But it was a wonderful guy. I almost bought it. But I how many accurate guns do you need? I want them all to be accurate I agree. I think I think we all want that. Yeah, I think in my opinion I see a lot of crowding in that sub five hundred dollar price point now Oh, yeah, right and and as those features start to come up, you know, and and people make them cheaper and cheaper You're gonna even get more crowded and I think that's kind of what everybody's trying to do sure I really feel like that The next frontier for those that got into the game with a gauntlet with an Avenger with a storm rider That don't have the budget or don't have the wanting to go $1,000 plus There's not that much in that seven hundred dollar range You reckon that's the next break. That's what I think But I mean, I could be way wrong, right? Maybe maybe nobody's in the 700 dollar range because It's been tried and it doesn't doesn't exist, right? Which It has been tried But the game's changed quite a bit in the last couple years at a time when the game was different, right? Yeah, right So put that $1,500 trigger in that gun right and put that barrel in that gun right if you can And see what happens. Yeah, I think there's a lot of uh I think there's a lot of advancement still left for PCPs for sure The question is Where are you going? Where is like the the sales numbers and the price point going to converge? Where everybody can get into it and obviously that's already started with the price point PCPs, but You do have a lot of folks that get one and go Yeah, it's okay, but I want more. Well the guy who says that He probably is a firearm shooter who's come over. He has an ar-15 cost him 1500 to $2,500 He knows he has to pay for what he gets On the other hand air guns are changing rapidly ar-15s I mean they're putting new caliber barrels in them all the time, but they're not changing Very fast. Oh, there are triggers and things like that. Yeah They're nice But air guns They're changing completely And maybe you're right about the $700 price point We'll find out see it. Yeah, that's the thing. We'll find out and it's gonna be And we're probably not gonna have to wait that long right you're gonna have I mean every year at chacho And you're not telling anybody a secret that you know that you're not divulging you're just guessing at this, right? Uh-oh We'll see I saw that look we'll see we'll see. Yeah, there's um Look at the end of the day. I think the competition is great for everyone And and that's what maybe the folks at home that are brand-allegent don't realize Whatever your favorite brand is doesn't always have to be the very best The fact that we have multiple price point options multiple high-end options multiple options in between Is awesome And it in that competition alone has pushed us to this point And it will continue to push further and where we are Do you remember when a high-pressure air pump costs $3,300? Some still do I know sure, but You can get one that'll fill your carbon fiber tank for under $1,500 You can get one that'll fill your gun or your little pygmy tank Well, maybe not a pygmy tank, but at least your gun. Yep for under what? Six seven. Yeah That was considered impossible absolutely and I think Going even further. We're a little off-subject, but I think we're not done there either I agree and that's my point. Yeah, my point is while these guns are doing what they're doing All of the support equipment is doing what it's doing. Yep Yeah Now our hand pumps that go to 4,500 psi ever going to be so easy you can do it while you're sitting down Nope That's physics folks. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, 2,000 pounds. That's a good place. Oh, that's another point Tyler, I'd like to say We found out with the discovery that 2,000 psi Works sure now, uh Tim McMurray with his uh usft us. Yeah usft He just puts on a bigger tube. Yep, and he's doing it with 6 1600 psi Why that you can do with a hand pump with one hand So there's places to go there too I will tell you speaking of low pressure things. I don't know if I can say this so this might get cut out But I did happen to see something. Uh, we're at an undisclosed location in texas. I should mention Um, and and at another undisclosed location in texas. I may have encountered an aero firing air gun That's pushing 450 feet per second off of just 1500 psi. Oh, wow And that is very intriguing, especially for myself that likes to shoot arrows at things Um, I shoot a 1700 dollar crossbow. Yeah And it shoots Same kind of arrows at 345 feet per second. So what you're talking about is going much faster Oh, yeah, and it doesn't have to go that fast, which means you could shoot out farther. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, so there's a lot of really cool Advancement going on in the industry Obviously, it takes time for all this stuff to come to market and you know, we all kind of know that Um, but nobody's taking a day off folks. That's the important thing And uh, we're we're going to continue to have lots of cool stuff to talk about well into the future And personally that's got me very excited. How about you? Oh joy? The godfather is happy folks Awesome Hey, Tyler. Yeah, Matt. Let's uh, let's wrap this up. All right. I just got to finish deleting these youtube comments idiots out there, man Let me tell you Yeah, you know we're filming, right? You recording Okay, so uh, hopefully he's going to cut that out folks, uh, but uh, you know, we don't actually delete youtube comments here We respond to most of them. So, uh, yeah, let's continue the conversation Hopefully you guys enjoyed tom and I chatting about low price pcps Where we think the industry is going to head in the next couple of years or where we don't think the industry is going to Head in the next couple years. Anyway, let us know down in those comments below. I promise they won't get deleted seriously Uh, please like the video as well We appreciate it a ton and don't forget to subscribe if you're not already took a ton of effort to make these Uh, thanks to your force air guns for helping us out filming as well And uh for tom the godfather of air guns himself giving us his time We appreciated a ton and we'll see you guys at the sixth and final part