 My name is Kim, and I'm going to talk to you today about evaluating the accessibility of websites with web-based tools, web resources, and plug-ins. My hope is that you'll walk away today with some great resources that you can take back and use to evaluate your sites. A little bit about me. I'm a freelance accessibility consultant and web developer. I've been doing this for a little over a year now in the freelance. I've worked with education, publishing companies, certification companies, health care, just to name a few. I also have a full-time job where I work in accessibility. I'm a technology accessibility specialist for the University of Alabama. Our focus is that we currently have an accessibility initiative on campus. I've been tasked, and I'm one of three on a campus of 40,000 students, to assist the web people with their accessibility needs. I serve as a resource for questions, and if I don't have answers, I look for answers. I also admin our enterprise accessibility tool, so that's quite a busy job. I'm also certified by the International Association of Accessibility Professionals, and I've been working with accessibility since 2012. So today, I always like to start my talks off with what is accessibility? Well, according to W3C, accessibility means websites, tools, and technologies are designed and developed so that people with disabilities can use them. More specifically, people can perceive, understand, navigate, and interact with the web. Disabilities typically can include temporary disabilities, or glasses. If you wear glasses, that's a disability. If you break an arm, that's a temporary disability. But the biggest thing is, it's a civil right. One in five people have a disability, so if your website is not accessible and you serve a client base, you could be excluding 20% of your potential users, customers, and students. So I also like to define a little more terms in detail. Accessibility is being ready in a case a need arises, being proactive, being part of the process of accessibility, and being able to address basic needs when it comes to accessibility. Accommodations, making adjustments once a need is known. Request base, accommodations can typically, or can sometimes be inherently delayed. So you don't know what your user base, if they have a disability. So if you find out after the fact, you can provide accommodations if possible for that user. It will always be needed in some cases, and you just have to be reactive. So both are needed, simple choices can make basic accommodations unnecessary when it comes to reviewing your site. Legal issues, everyday companies and schools are facing or have faced legal issues. Most recently, Morgan Stanley is being sued for an inaccessible website. A legally blind man out of New York is a suing for negligence, saying that their site is not accessible for blind users. This is an ADA violation, human rights violation. Got some notes here. So actually this is the second suit currently right now from Morgan Stanley. They have a previous suit for the same exact reason. Wendixie, Wendixie is a groundbreaking ruling where courts have ruled against Wendixie in a lawsuit. Claims were that people were not able to access their services based on an inaccessible website. But Wendixie's claim was that their service was an in-store physical location. So the court ruled against that and awarded, I think, $100,000 to this group. And as you can see, there's several popular companies. Educational institutions are currently under investigation, have faced legal action or are facing legal action. So where do we start? If you're new to accessibility, you're probably thinking, whoa, how do I fix this? The web accessibility standards are the first place to start. Web content accessibility guidelines published by the W3C are guidelines from their web accessibility initiative Developers, content specialists put out information for the disability accommodations. It was first published in December of 2008. And currently they have a, so the current version is WCAG 2.0. It comes in three levels, A, AA and AAA. And they're under, currently reviewing a draft of another version, 2.1. And it's expected to be out as early as summer of 2018. Section 508, this applies to more government funded agencies. They have to make their content and materials accessible. If an agency receives any type of government funding, and this can include nursing homes, healthcare organizations. They receive funding for Medicaid. This affects their ability to provide their services if their websites and content are not accessible. Section 508 was recently refreshed this year to adopt most of the WCAG 2.0 level AA standards, which are kind of the standards you'll see across the board that most people like to achieve. So what are we testing for? We're looking for sufficient color contrast. Can people with visual disabilities see your site? Can they see the text? Is the color, you know, visually, can they see it clearly? Using color is only a method for conveying meanings such as links. So if all your links are, the color contrast does not work, your users cannot see those links. All site functionality must be available via keyboard. That's tabbing through your site. Any content that's useful to the user must be accessible while using the keyboard. Text equivalent for images, charts, and graphs, alternative text. A user using a screen reader will need that information to understand your web page. Real text versus images of text. A ability to enlarge it clearly in the content of your site. If you have an image of text and it doesn't have a great resolution, and your user needs to zoom in to see your page, they can't see it because it pixelates. Proper heading structures. Headings are not just for decorative styling, they're for structure. Use it for structure first and then come back and add the decorative headings and such later. People with disabilities commonly use heading structures to navigate their sites. So this would involve H2s, 3s, 4s, and so on. H1, 2, 3, 4. Make sure your video contains captions and transcripts. Videos, it's really easy to do on YouTube. I wouldn't go with their automated version. I would edit it. Those in the accessibility field call those captions because they're really bad sometimes. But you do have the ability to edit those within YouTube if that's the platform you use. Skip navigation links. If you have a really busy front page that has all these different areas and the person just wants to get to the content or if you have a big menu and the person doesn't want to tab through everything and just wants to go straight to the content of a page, that's an easy way for a screen reader user to do that. So to learn about the standards, I recommend going to the W3C Web Accessibility Initiative Tutorials. There you can find information on page structures, menus, images, forms, carousels, everything that you can possibly think of within your web page. They have code-based examples, and it's really helpful. Also, Section 508 has a website. They have their guidelines mapped out on there as well. Theirs are slightly different from WCAG 2.0 Level AA, but they're really, really close. Another resource is WebAIM, Web Accessibility in Mind. They put out some great information that's in plain English that's easy for others to understand. Whereas the W3C can be a little bit more technical. WebAIM has great resources, blog posts and such that will really help you. So, how do I test? Well, you can start with some free testing tools. Here's a few that I'm going to talk about quickly today that I recommend. I've used for the most part all of them. Some of them are, well, most of them are free. They're all are free actually. But one thing to note when you're using an automated scanning tool is sometimes automated scanning tools report false positives. So you still need to look at the code and give a hands-on approach to that. Maybe a label is missing from a form field. But it may have a title field, and the screen reader will read that. It just, it really depends on the case. But that's one thing I want you to keep in mind as you're reviewing if you use any of these tools. So the first one that I've started with is Wave. This is put out by WebAIM. You can do browser extensions, Chrome or Firefox. You can also go to wave.webain.org and just scan straight into the page. They have premium APIs available if that's something you're interested in. But the free tools are really, really useful right now. Or in a quick fix, you know, to just get started. Reports include errors, alerts, color contrast. So I'm sorry if this is really small. I tried my best to get it as big as I could. But this is an example of a wave report. So within a wave report, you have three menu items at the top. You have styles and no styles and a color contrast tab. So you always have a code area and you always have a left sidebar. And within those areas, you're going to be able to see your errors, your alerts, your color contrast errors. But you're also going to see the good things about your site. So it's going to point out if you used ARIA, RHTML5. It's going to point out structural elements such as things such as that. You can also take it to in those styles of view, which will help you determine if your site makes logical sense, your navigation. So if someone were to look straight at your text, they could see this. And another thing I did not say is you can turn the errors and alerts on and off and you can view an overlay on your page. So if it gets to be like too many red spots and you want to go in and filter those out and just address the yellow areas, you can turn those off. And the color contrast area. It includes tools so that you can change, lighter, darker, play around with your color contrast. And it also tells you if it passes or fails WCAG level AA and AAA, I believe. So it's a really helpful tool to get started with and it just makes really clear sense. They also offer information as well. So they have an info area that you can click a link and it will take you to the WCAG website that tells you in detail why this is an error, why it's important. Another free option is Achecker, Achecker.ca. This is a website that will allow you to enter a single URL, do an HTML file upload, post in your HTML markup and it also has an HTML and CSS validator. You can also go in and put the levels to check against. So if you have Section 508 only, you can click that and the output will be exactly what you specified. It gives you the line that it occurs in the code. It also gives you a link to resources about it, the success criteria guideline. It tells you what it falls under. You can see known problems, likely problems, potential problems. And you can export those out in the form of PDF CSV files. That may be helpful if you're creating reports. Another resource is the AX Accessibility Engine by DQ. DQ is a company that specializes in accessibility. And they also have an enterprise, very expensive service that you can buy. But they provide some free browser extensions. These are open source and they work through your developer tools within your browser. They also have a beta version called AX Coconut. So if you're into trying out new things, you can download that as well. Let's see. So I'm sorry, it's so small. But that's an example of an AX report that you get. So it reviews the violations, the possible violations. You can select to highlight the areas in which your violations occur. And you can actually learn more about those through a link that's provided for you. And again, when I say automated scans can give you false positives, this allows you to dismiss a false positive that may occur. So you can do that as well. You can inspect nodes of your page. So if you just have a general menu area you want to check out, you can inspect that area of the code. And you can also review the impact of the violation and learn more about the impact. So if it affects screen reader users or if it affects someone with a visual disability. Accessibility developer tools is a browser extension by Google. And it runs through their developer tools. And it just allows you to go in and view the markup and the code of your site and see potential problems that may occur. So again, it's going to be another little tab within your developer tools. It's very similar to AX in a way. Funkify Disability Simulator is a browser extension. And yes, I did say Funkify. But it's a really cool simulator that you can add to Chrome. It allows you to pick a situation. So if you see Blurry Bianca, Dyslexia, Danny, Trimbling, Trevor, you can pick a type of disability and test it through your site. So here's an example. I picked color Carl. It simulates colors with different filters so that you can distinguish color contrast issues that may occur. You can adjust the severity of it. Can you see it? It's hard to see it. I know. You can just choose what type of, you know, just play around with your disabilities and kind of see what someone views. There's one on here that will simulate trembling hands if you're a mouse user. So if you're an older user that may have arthritis or some trembling, how they would actively use it, go on there and try it sometime. You'll really get a feel for what, you know, people out there go through. Let's see. And then this is an example of Blurry Bianca. So let me say that I did not pick any specific site. I just grabbed some sites. So I'm not targeting anybody. But this applied a filter to the site. So if someone who doesn't have very clear vision may be suffering from cataracts or may need glasses or contacts and can't see very clearly, that's an example of what they see on the site. Another tool is the Color Contrast Analyzer. It's a free tool by the Possello Group. They're accessibility people as well. You can determine pass-fail assessments for WCAG color contrast. It will also do simulations for you, very similar to Funky 5. It's only for Windows and Mac. And it's a great tool because, let's flip over, you have a color picker. So if you're working on a site, that particular window that you see will overlay on top of your site. And if you need to pinpoint a very specific color, you can do that. Background foreground. Or if you have the hex code, you can enter that as well. It's going to tell you if it passes the WCAG levels, it's going to tell you the contrast ratio, which is important when it comes to color contrast as well. I use this daily in my job. So I love this one because of the ability to just put it with any site at the time you're working with. Accessibility bookmarklets. This is a resource that comes out of the University of Illinois. It's by their disability resources and education services. So they're great resources. This group puts out classes that you can take, a badging program. Excellent, excellent resources there. But basically you drop this bookmarklet into your browser. And I just clipped a little image, but you can detect your headings, your list, your images, your forms, your landmarks. So it's really hard to see, but if you notice I have selected the images and I have selected, I think it's the heading structure, which is really, but it will label that particular image. So it allows you to quickly check if text is an image or if it's text. This is very helpful when you're reviewing sites. They just click on and off. You click the buttons. Very easy to install. Any questions on any of those so far? Can you back up for just one? Sure. So that one you show actually on the web page is an overlay where things are. On the previous ones where it gives you the report and it shows you where the code is from. Can you link directly into the code from that snippet? Can you make the correction in that snippet or do you have to actually go to the code? You have to actually go to the code. Unless you're using, I think, the developer tools you can match up, I have not done that in the valuations, but with WebAIM you will actually have to go in and change it as well with the Wave tool. So you'll have to go to your code, but it tells you where to find it, exactly where to go within that page. Does it give you the alt code material there? It will. And you can right click and inspect your image and it will give you specifically what it says within the code. Yep. Any other questions? Did everyone get these? Do I need to go back for any URLs? And these should be online as well. There was a list where you listed things like color contrast, colors only. On the bottom it said something about skip nav links. You tried to explain it, but you said a couple things I just did. Okay. So if you have, say, a mega menu on your page and it would force a user that was using keyboard navigation only to tab through that mega menu before actually accessing content, the skip nav will present itself before it goes into your menu and you're able to go straight to your content. Does that make sense? No. You can use it. I've seen some hidden. I think it's a general best practice. I don't recommend hiding them because it is a good feature for everyone. I keyboard navigate a lot now just because I'm doing it all the time and I just find it quicker sometimes to just tab to a skip nav and go to the content. Yeah. And a lot of times if you're tabbing from the title bar, that skip nav will immediately, if it's not displayed on the page, it will immediately display. If it's not hidden in a screen reader only tag, it will display for you. So you'll see skip navigation or skip domain content. So is that something that you have at the top left of your page Yes. So let's talk a minute about some WordPress plugins. These are just a few of what's out there and a few that I've actually used. WP accessibility, WALL-E, totally an access monitor. So WP accessibility helps with common accessibility problems. It allows people that don't have the expert knowledge to go in and make some adjustments to their site quickly and easily. WP accessibility will add skip links, add language and directional attributes to your HTML. It will outline, give you an outline for keyboard focus. Give you a toolbar to monitor your high contrast, low contrast. Add long descriptions to your images if that's something you need for your alt text. And enforce all attributes on your images. So you will be able to mark an image as a decorative image. If it's just a fancy picture you decide you want on your page and it conveys no content. Or you can go in and specify what it's for. WALL-E, the Web Accessibility Toolbox. It provides kind of a combination of several different tools I've talked about today. And I actually have to give a plug out for my friend Rachel Cherry. She did write this, formerly Rachel Cardin. She's a systems engineer at Disney now but she worked with me at the University of Alabama. So she's pretty awesome. She heads up the WP campus if you've heard of that. So she does those camps. So again, the WALL-E tool will kind of basically put wave within your CMS and totally, which is a visual simulator to evaluate color contrast, write in the CMS so that you can work with it. The operations are very similar to if you are using it outside of the CMS. A-1-1-1 is an abbreviation. Yes. Yes, it's like the first letter of accessibility and the last letter of accessibility and the total letters, 11. Accessibility, that's it. WP totally. This is by Khan Academy and it helps you visualize how your site performs with assistive technology. And if you're going to get that GitHub address, it's pretty helpful. You can use totally outside of a WordPress plugin, which is available at that URL. And I'm going to flip over to the next one. So it puts an overlay which is just even on your back end and it tells you what items are labeled, H-1s, 2s, 3s, allows you to kind of go through your site with two overlays to detect potential accessibility issues. Tenon IO, and I skipped over Access Monitor, but Access Monitor is another plugin in which Tenon IO will run through as well. Tenon IO has a free copy-paste URL scan, but they have a premium service, so they give you some great information as well, so if you wanted to check out that. These are services with just free trials. SortSite is a suite of website testing tools if you can be found on PowerMapper.com. It has an on-demand cloud-based version that has, I think, a 30-day free trial if you wanted to check it out. But it gives you reports based on your success criteria and level priority, what's important, and gives you the code where to find it, as such. And they also have a desktop tools for purchase, but it's pretty extensive. I do know that the OCR, Office of Civil Rights, uses Wave and PowerMapper to evaluate sites for accessibility, so if you were to receive an OCR complaint letter, then those would be the tools they use. So how can you help? I'm going to give you 10 things that you can start doing today, okay? So you can foster an awareness of accessibility. You can learn more about accessibility, and today you are. You're sitting in any accessibility talks that we're presenting. An important thing for your websites is to keep lines of communication open with your users. Contact information is easily available. You have an email or a phone or accessible web forms. These are really important. Communicate clearly and concisely within your site. People with learning disabilities who can't understand complex sentences or people with cognitive disabilities if your sentences are long and lengthy and complex. They can't quite comprehend that. Or even with lower literacy or language skills. Content that is easy to understand by users that aren't familiar with a certain topic. There are three or four that don't have WCAG, if you compare WCAG and 508, and I can show you a checklist if you'd like to look at it a little bit later. But that are very similar, but yet the three or four don't have a WCAG or Section 508 Association. So they're similar but different. I guess if that makes sense. But I can definitely show you a checklist I've compiled that compares the two and it will allow you to figure out which one's applied to which. Have there been cases where someone's been sued because their website was not accessible to some of the cognitive deficiencies? Does that seem to be pretty impossible? It's hard. One thing is your website can't be 100% accessible and as hard as you try to make it, you cannot determine what your user, what disability they may have. All you can do is be proactive about it and have your communication open for users. But specifically, most of the suits I've seen are for people that have mobility issues and vision impairments. Mobility issues. So if someone is a quadriplegic or uses keyboard navigation only to get through their site, they can't. There's a lot of those. Convey your content in multiple ways. Don't just use images, colors, video, and audio. So this is an example of a bus route that's using color only to convey the information. And this is an example of someone who might have diachromacy that may be looking at that bus route. And you really can't determine because they all kind of go together. Tell your vendors, your publishers, your third-party companies that you work with that accessibility is important to you and ask them how they're planning for it. Start with questions asked for VPATs, which are voluntary product accessibility templates. Here's a few questions that you could ask them. Can users perform all functions with a mouse? Has a tool or product or site been tested using assistive technologies? If so, what did they use? What methods did they use? What were their findings? And who did the testing? Is there someone that is a screen reader expert? Or is it a company maybe that tested for you? That's important. More questions. If your product supports audio, does it have captions? If your product supports output, does it have an accessible output? And this would include like PDFs. And that's a whole other realm of accessibility. On the first one, do you mean if you have... Can you say more about that first one? If the product supports audio, does it have captions? So if you have video and audio, so you have a transcript for your audio, do you have captions on your video? Captions on your video. Thank you. You can ask them if they have accessibility documentation available, like the VPAT. And if they do, you can even just ask them up front, do they have accessibility related issues? So again, you can request the VPAT, request WCAG accessibility statements. A lot of times if you have a vendor that's depending on you, you can consider contract changes. I know in higher ed, we have huge contracts and we're required by all to provide those inaccessible formats. And if these vendors don't provide that, then we could consider taking a multi... a million-dollar contract out of their hands. It just really depends. Explore help materials such as the WCAG, the W3C website or WebAIM, and consider alternatives to your vendor. Again, ask for caption or transcribed versions of any media you use. That's very important. Avoid click here, read mores and other generic link menu text. So what that means if a screen reader user is using your site, link should be very clear to what you're linking to. If it just says click here, link, as a poet screen reader would read it, link click here, you don't really know where it's going to. And many times screen reader users use links to navigate, they just want to go through and check out all the links on the site. Would you give an example of what a great link would be? If you have a registration page and you say registration form is available or something such as that, you wouldn't say to register click here. You would say, you know, maybe your registration or your register or something such as that would be your link text. Does that make sense? Okay. I use the term read more or click for more. In short snippets to get to a deeper level, would you suggest that using the alt to say read more about and then whatever the subject is? That would be helpful. Instead of hitting read more, read more, read more, everyone would be read more about registration, read more about registration. Yes. Or more about, or more register, yes. Yes. Do you find, I feel that compels always use like an action word. Yes. To click on? Definitely. So I guess it's just about being more creative with that. Right. And it's all going to be based on your content and what you're writing. How do you feel about like buttons or underlines on those types of links, the click here type? I guess I feel like if I put a button there and I say about us or who we are, something like that, how do they know to click that to go to more? If you're, if it's a menu item, you know, if it's about, that's kind of different. Yeah. I'm thinking like within, you were talking about within a system. You would use that as the author of the text. Yes. What I understand, you can use the read more for the visually acceptable people. If you need more information for somebody like me, if I don't have my glasses on, I would say read more about, click here to read more about. Because it doesn't read the screen, it reads the code. However, if you have multiple remords like you're talking about on the page, you'll get a 508 error for it on the screen. Yes. You will. Yeah. You will. Yes. So I mean if you use the author of the code to add additional copy values. It's still flagger. You can show it multiple times. That'll be it. I'm calling from the other side. I have it visually. It makes it more just, you know, harder to design the page if you have to have a 20 character button. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Do you have a question? This might be a question for all the WordPress super users in the room. But when you are simply doing a news story and I have to post news stories, I tell them to use the more tag to indicate this is the break and in our news feed it's going to say read more. Mm-hmm. Because there's some way we can dynamically change that text. Yes. The accessibility tool, there's a check box and it will make all the read more and continue readings. It repeats the title of the article. Yeah. Yes. Customize it if you don't want to repeat the customized sentence. Yeah. You can customize the text and read anything. Is that true? But that's anything we want. That's not dynamically changing. Sounds like there could be accessibility that makes it dynamic. Yes. Another thing is to build accessibility into your work practices for any content. So if you have a PDF that you put on your site or a Word doc, there are accessibility checkers and features built in to Word documents, all the Microsoft Office products and PC and Mac versions as well. So I recommend kind of checking that if that's the type of content you use. I also recommend checking out the assistive technology on your computer and or mobile devices. Then think about how someone would use it. So to find those assistive technologies voice over within your Mac and your system preferences under accessibility and your ease of access center if you're a Windows user, you can find your narrator. Actually, I've never been able to use a narrator with any success. Yeah. It's not one of my favorites, but it's built in. I use a different screen reader. That's freely. What do you use? I use NVDA. And it's available for Windows platforms only. It's free. It's great. NV, the letter V, D is in dog, A is in apple. And again, I encourage you to learn more about accessibility and web aim is a great place to start with that. Any more questions? Yes. What's your opinion on using an A to Z index as an accessibility tool? Well, how do you mean a tool specifically? Well, if someone's using a screen reader comes down the page and their screen reader says A to Z index and then click it and simply a list of every single page on your site, is that going to be compliant for... Well, you could use heading structure within that. So, if you have someone that's navigating the page using the headings, maybe an A, the A, B, Z, and then they could go in and look at the individual links. That would be helpful. Just gives them an order to follow by. Not just a bunch of links. Yes, similar to that. It sounds kind of like an alphabetically ordered site map. In 1997, when I started doing web, every website had a site map. And also, since bandwidth was an issue, a lot of the big sites would have a text-only version. I don't see any more. I think because bandwidth is no longer an issue, there's no concern about that. But do you see where the text-only version comes into place for your website at the university? We've kind of transferred over to more responsive design. So we've removed that text-only option and we're just constantly working toward accessibility. And so you really don't see it as often. And just because the screen readers and things such as that are just getting more dynamic and allowing you to navigate through your pages a lot more efficiently than a straight-up text page. Then you make a recommendation for your end-users on what screen reader or what adaptive technology they should adopt to use your website or just present it? We just work to make it as accessible as we can. And if there are problems, we have open lines of communication so that people can contact us. So if they can't access a certain document as such. So we have our own forms and contact information, everything's out there. Is there any kind of best practice in reference to redundant links like the gentleman behind me mentioned of blog feed, which WordPress users is wildly relevant. Lots of times you'll see people post the title of an article as a link and then at the end of an excerpt is a read more link to the same thing, both holding different texts describing what they are. Yes, you see where that hasn't necessarily become an error in redundant links you do see that as an alert and a page full of those can be an issue. So I think limiting those if possible or breaking them up some sort of way that would be what I would recommend. But people have different best practices as far as that type of thing. And definitely if you want to contact me I can look up and see if I can find more information out for you. Any other questions? Is there a browser that's better for users that is there one more that is commonly used by people who need accessible functions? So on a Mac when you're testing I use very specific browsers but I wouldn't say that there actually web name does a screen reader survey and you can go in and look at the results and it will tell you and I can't remember just off the top of my head it will tell you what most assistive technology people or users are actually using what screen readers are using what's the most popular. What browser do you use? On Windows I use Firefox with NVDA and on Mac I use Safari with voiceover for the native the native. Do you test everything on both devices when we test responsiveness or whatever on different devices we do the same thing? Yes. Yeah. But definitely if you're strictly limited to one Windows I would go with Firefox and NVDA Firefox presents the HTML better to NVDA one thing about so JAWS is a screen reader that's commonly used with people the problem with JAWS is it tries to put a bandaid on issues which is great for the user but if you're testing to try to determine if there is an issue you want to know how to fix that and you may have a Mac user that is using voiceover and it doesn't fix that issue for them Any more questions? Yeah. The menu. Not being able to keyboard navigate through. That's hitting tab, shift tab will take you back pressing enter, space bar things that you're saying. A lot of the themes that are popular right now you can tab through the menu and you have drop downs Exactly. Yes. That is a really big issue I've seen a lot of is your drop downs and we're not talking about mega menus we're talking about simple lists within your menu. Yeah. Okay. I'm training as a compliance technician where do you suggest Definitely start with the W3C I think their tutorials and their resources are great and WebAIM WebAIM is one I would recommend Well, you can go to trainings so WebAIM actually they provide training and they do a wonderful training I've actually been through the WebAIM training I've actually been through several different types of training the University of Illinois and their badging program as well and they're great resources I don't think it is or it isn't, you know I don't, your user is just it's going to go with what's presented to them and if you have someone using a screen reader typically your site map is in your footer so they're not going to get to your site map unless they tab through everything or they use the screen reader to go to the links only and typically that could be the last content they access and if you have any other questions I'll be around today and tomorrow Thank you You said the slide deck is available through I think they're going to post it on the site I believe and if you don't if they don't send me an email okay