 Hi, this is your husband, Bhartya. Today, we have with us Fathi Dekarmanasi, General Manager of Continuous Delivery Foundation. Fathi, it's great to have you on the show. Thank you very much for having me, so happy to be here. Let's talk about the foundation of Continuous Delivery Foundation because continuous delivery if you look in old days, not whole. In today's world, nothing is old, right? Everything is new. But when we do look at CI CD pipelines, they were a lot of patchwork, and then a lot of open source projects start to emerge. Netflix, they have their projects, and Spinnaker came and there are so many other projects. So sometime when they talk to folks, some folks try to put CI CD together, sometime folks like to separate them. So there are so many things to talk about today, which also means that it's nois, it's one second, a lot of patchwork there. So let's start with the basics of the foundation, what lets the creation of the foundation and what do you folks actually do there? Continuous Delivery Foundation was established around 2019 to provide a neutral home for continuous integration and continuous delivery projects, open source projects, and the purpose of Continuous Delivery Foundation is to improve the world's ability to achieve continuous delivery. And as you mentioned, there are great projects within the ecosystem, both within Continuous Delivery Foundation and other communities. And those technologies help organizations to bring their software with speed, the good and sustainability to their end users. So Continuous Delivery Foundation aims to make sure that we have this collaboration across various projects happening to push the domain forward. How do you look at it? You know, when we talk about CI and CD, do you look at the, because the name of the foundation continuous delivery, so how do you look at things so that we do know that what you folks are doing there? Continuous Delivery is a critical software development practice and continuous integration and continuous deployment could be considered as enabling practice standard continuous delivery. And continuous integration sits closer to development teams and they, consistent integration practice, allow developers to bring their latest channels and commits into main branch software development branch in a safe, secure and quality manner. And if you look at the continuous delivery paradigm and practice, these different activities within under continuous delivery, they confine each other. Continuous integration is the most basic activity which lets developers to make their contributions in a much faster manner, while continuous delivery are loss organizations to make sure what is on main branch, development branch is always in a reasonable state. And this topic has various aspects, technological aspects as well as social aspects because the continuous delivery is actually related with business process as well. So these all need to be taken into consideration in a holistic manner and that is what we are aiming to achieve within Continuous Delivery Foundation. If you look at just the CD Foundation, what are some of the main challenges that you're seeing based on what's again the trends that are there in the market? I think like community is at the core of Continuous Delivery Foundation. So the aspect I mentioned bringing people together, that is one of the challenges. And the other challenge is related to ecosystem and continuous integration, continuous delivery domain. Because when you look at the latest conversations on different topics such as cloud-nating and software-spy chain, sometimes the continuous integration and continuous delivery topics are drawn in too many conversations and that indirectly impacts continuous delivery foundation because continuous delivery and continuous delivery is a key piece in all these different things for cloud-nating for software-spy chain. And one of the challenges we have in front of us for Continuous Delivery Foundation is to make the foundation more visible, make it better positioned within a cross-ecosystem because continuous delivery is not a specific cloud-native or no software-spy chain. It is a common concern among different domains. So visibility positioning. This is a very interesting point that you brought in there that it's not just about cloud-native, but the fact is that just we are moving more and more towards cloud. But the fact is also that because of digital transformation, almost every company is today becoming a software company and not every aspect of software is done on the cloud. So talk about the importance of CD in today's modern world, where we are moving to our software-driven world. Yes, that is a really great question. Thanks for that. Because when you look at the open-source communities or the latest trends and technologies, cloud-native is one of the top in the list. But as you highlighted, not all the organizations are on cloud-native. For example, Automotive Industry or Telecom Industry, they're embedded products or some organizations talking about continuous delivery for databases or continuous delivery for mainframes. So continuous integration and continuous delivery is a common concern regardless of the technology, regardless of the industry. And that makes it especially critical that we as practitioners within the ICD ecosystem take a broader look at the continuous integration and continuous delivery domain and make sure that we address the use case coming from all these different types of industries and not just focus on a specific industry. Because as you highlighted, again, all the industries are becoming software-driven and we have to enable those industries and organizations to make sure they can push the latest and greatest features, serves their end users with peace records and in a sustainable manner. That is key. We have to enable. One more thing that is becoming very important into this word, security. And CD, once again, it's the pipeline there. So talk about the role that CD plays there in ensuring having a better security posture. Yes, software-spy chain and spy chain security has become pretty critical with the latest instance, no, and that has been, you know, discussed quite heavily last couple of years under different names, their secops and so on. Now it is great that many different organizations, regulators, governments, agencies, they are focusing on this topic. And that is important to increase the awareness around security challenges we have. And as you know, this shift-left approach to pushing these type of checks closer to developers themselves will improve the state of our security of our supply chain a lot. Because if you catch those issues closer to their source, you have much easier way to fix them, much cheaper way to fix them you don't have any impacts on end users. And all these bringing code from source control management system, from development teams into end users, that goes through content-zero pipelines. That's why content-zero pipelines, I consider them as the backbone of software-spy chain. And without us putting focus on content-zero pipelines, we may have big issues when we try to address even bigger challenges within our software-spy chain. I'm curious that, is it really possible that to have some kind of interoperability among CIN, CD tools, plus what kind of response you receive from the industry or ecosystem when you announce CD events? I think we have really great examples from within other companies. For example, if you look at open telemetry, that brought some common approach to how the data can be shared. And CD events approach is pretty similar to the approach taken by open telemetry community. And the key thing here is adoption. And you can have a specification in place which could have stable version, but if that is not adopted by the open source communities, then that will become reality. But if we look at what's happening within Contra's data foundation and within Contra's delivery events project, CD events project, you'll see many different projects, contributors from many different projects are taking active part on it. For example, Jenkins, Tecton, Captain, K-native contributors are taking part in the project. And one of the first things the project did was to bring up a proof of concept to show that this is actually achievable. So instead of just focusing on a specification on a markdown document, they brought up different tools and made them talk to each other using their draft specification. So that these two aspects, an example coming from open telemetry community as well as the engagement from the other communities within CD events project gives me hope that we can actually achieve interoperability within the CD ecosystem. What kind of vision, what kind of goal do you have for the CD foundation? Where do you see, you did share some, you know, that there is a place for CD foundation is very critical, but what kind of vision do you have? Again, the communities are the most critical in the puzzle because you can have ideas, you can have vision, you can have strategy, but if those ideas, if those, you know, your vision is not realized, then that stays on paper unfortunately. And that's why the communities are key in the puzzle. And as I mentioned, one of the first things we need to address within our foundation is to make sure that our community is thriving and make sure that we are getting even more contributors to our community and we make sure we can sustain our community. That is personally my top priority. In addition to that, there are different stakeholders, projects, participating organizations. We have to make sure that their use cases, their challenges are discussed and addressed. But that is another piece in the puzzle because these things should go hand in hand if we don't bring different opinions, different use case in front of our communities, then we may be doing things that may not be relevant or useful to our users. So that is the other thing. And in Noation, again, I think you highlighted one point there when you asked if we think a consolidation will happen within the CI-CD ecosystem. And that is key. And instead of us doing same things across different communities, we should make sure that we put our efforts together and innovate within the ecosystem. One of the topics we discussed that already in terms of this, this is a challenge we need to solve and that can only be achieved by us coming together. And another challenge is, okay, we have these different abstraction layers that helps organizations to move to cloud native, but things are getting complicated as well and making developers' lives difficult like if they want to create a continental pipeline, then they shouldn't be writing thousands lives of YAML files, for example. They should be looking at how they can make valuable contributions to the business rather than spending their time on writing, duplicating YAML files. And that could be another thing we as foundation push forward, like, okay, now we solve the problems in the world, let's speculate a bit about the future. What is next? Okay, how we can make sure we can increase developer efficiency, productivity and experience because continuous delivery is key in this. But if developers are happy when they send their code and instead code answer point production as fast and secure as possible, then they can move on to the next step at their hand and innovate. And that could be another thing we need to put a force around. How we can give developers better ways to create and manage their continental pipelines. So again, that is the technology aspects for continuous delivery foundation. We have community aspects, we have end user participation organization aspects, and we have technology aspects. If you put these three different aspects together and take no collaborative approach to these things, I think that will bring success to continue their foundation and build the ecosystem. Vathiyan, thank you so much for taking time out today and talk not only about the CD Foundation, but you also shared a much bigger picture that we were not even expecting. That is the way we develop and deploy software. It's not just one way of doing this, not for the process. You see, there are a lot of companies who are still not on the cloud bandwagon and software developed, we are moving towards a software driven world. So the importance that is there of continuous delivery is thanks for sharing those insights and I would love to have you back on the show. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me, Swap. It's much appreciated.