 A dyna'n gweithio, mae'n gweld ex-bankrobir, Mr Ian Blink-McDorrold. Diolch i fynd i fynd i gael, wrth gynhwyl i chi ddod i'n cael ei gwaith ar y swym iawn. Diolch i'n cael ei ddweud, James. Diolch i'n cael ei ddweud. Yn y cyfnodi, mae'r amlwg wedi'u gweithio a'u gweithio arni yn ei prif. A'i gweithio ar y newid y cwylwgryn. A'i gyd i'n gweithio arfer. A'i gyd i'n gweithio ar gweithio arni yn gweithio. Wel. Thank you. How's life taken you? Life's been treat me okay mate, I've been out of serious crime for five or six years, but for if I can just start off with saying the last six months I feel as if I'm still in the holladeway strathglyde police. I've moved into town heads, I've been in there 18 months, and about seven months ago I was going to do a certain sunbed shop in the town which I byddwn i'n meddylch i'n mynd i'n mynd i gwael i'n edrych yn ymgaredd ac roeddwn i'n meddylch i gyddiwg i'r hoffa o hoffa a chwyfydd i'n meddylch i'r hoffa i gael. Mae'r hoffa ar yma, mae'r hoffa ar hyn ar hyn. Mae'r hoffa i gael i'r hoffa i gael i'r hoffa, mae'n meddylch i'r hoffa a chyfrofod i'r hoffa i gael i'r hoffa. Mae wedi meir y polylwynei, a mae wedi trefnwneisio i ymddangos, ac mae wedi sy'n gweithio i gael y sydd yn gweithio i unrhyw ymddangos. O gyllid i'r gweithio? Fand yw'r tîm rwy'n gweithio i ddiwg a'r ystod yn ymddangos. Mae'r 10-pass, mae'r fu-dagwyd yn ymddangos, ac mae'n cymdeithio'r gwaith o'r llai'r llai. Ynny'n gallu'n mynd i chi, ac mae'n gweithio i'n gweithio i gyd. Mae'n gweithio i'r llai. Will yster maen nhw. Haidwch i, a i. Rydyn ni wnaeth gyn addyn nhw. Rydyn ni'n meddwl seith понимаю chi'w ymgeist am gyllid i gell o'i hwn. Rygwch gyrnwyr dweud allan, rydyn ni'n eu hun i gael! Isai'r rhyw dydd am wng inni. Nid oedd palwyd yn i. Nid oedd yn i. Rydyn ni ddim ar gair. Rydyn ni'n meddwl. Nod, rydyn ni'n meddwl. Rydyn ni sy'n meddwl! Rydyn ni'n meddwl. yn y bwrdd yn clyw yw'r bwysig. Yn y bwrdd yw'r corfforddiad, yn y bwrdd yn cyfwyr o'r fwyfyr, yn y bwysig, yn y bwysig, yn y bwrdd yw'r gwbl ffeyl yn y Llyfrân a'r Gwyllgor, ond mae'r gwybod wych yn yr unig a mae gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio. Mae gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio. Mae yw'r gweithio'n gweithio. ac dw i'n mod i'r roi'n unrhyw er m Eisenberg i'n teulu i chi i chi i'r dyma. Mae cyfnodd peneth o Chyflwyr Pryddiant. Felly Ilywyr yn deall yn Llwyddon New Penhales. Felly mae'n brifonu ddลenu chi. Dwi'n deillwn? Yn y cyfnod, byddwch ein gweithio ar gyferr. Mae'n gyfnodd yn ein gweithio. Mae'n mynd i'r cyffredin cerdd. Mae'nanner hyn yn cael hwylau. A mae'n cyfnodd yn cerdd. A'r amlwg yn gallu'n arweinydd. Y gallwch eich gweithredu Llynedd yng Nghymru yw wneud. RIGHT-MAN Sief was in the front and there was a driver, the detective sergeant. He was Gary. He's in the back and I said, look, I've got a kickaero in me. I said, are you going to keep me in for this? He went, not interested, he says, we've got good information, it's an intelligence-led operation. Have you got a gun in the house? Even a plastic gun. I said no. I said, where's this coming from? He says he's explaining so the woman in the front ac rydyn ni'n ei os yw'r gwrdd, rydyn ni'n ffordd o'r gwrdd a'u'r gwrdd. A i wneud i'r gwrdd ar y cyflen. Rydyn ni'n gweithio'n ei wneud i'r gwrdd. Ieithwch, mae'r bwysig ar amser yn gweithio'n gwrdd. Rydyn ni'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio. Yr gwrdd yn ymgynnu'r cyd- ac mae'n gweithio'r cyd- a'i gweithio ymgynnu'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio'n cyd- Yn ymwneud i'r dwddai'r amser gweithdoedd y gallwn i'ch bod yn ddwynt yn ymwneud yma. Roedd yma hefyd yn ymwyneud yma i ddim yn y ddwyin, ac mae nhw'n olygu'n fithio yn gallwn i hynny, mae yn ymwneud o'r amser gweithdoedd ac mae nid oedd wedi gwneud gydweithio'r amser, ond mae'r achos i fynd i eraill! .. warning the young copers, they were about seven or eight of them. They were at police outside. They were like, do you mean to get this cocaine at your poker? I went out and put it at the table. I said to Sarah, there's about a gram. He went, come on. There's about two or three grams there. I said, I don't even know. He's probably snorring it. I went and got it and put it on the table. I said, what's this? He said, there's a couple of grams. I went and I went, come on. There's about two or three grams there. Pan yna, dwi'n maes, eich pethau yn 25. Dwi'n amser ond, dwi'n gwybod o fusio. Dwi'n bod amser ten mor hwnnw, felly rwy'n osir oent, ond gan hefyd, rwy'n gwybod i'n ceisio'r celf, ac mae'n ddiogel. Mae cynniad o chreifio'r cais. Mae'r rhai £10 o'r rhais. Rwy'n fath! Felly hefyd i mi arall. Iím going to put the camera on, it's your name��를, so give my name and all of thatiti blah blah blah blah... Then it says, look, it says, here's the one,castingItis foa Shereiff Finlay, Fe Glasal Shereiff Cort, and it was issued in the second of may Solely fae fo Firearms, and this was the fourth one for me. So I'm saying it to myself so they've had this for two days and they've no actually done it. It must have been falling into browns and whatever. But to this day, I still don't know where it was. Anyway, they have done the search. After a couple of minutes, the camera is on, it says, TTine's curve self from the back, from the front is well behaved because I have a shirt myself. I thought they were going to plant me. I thought I was going to plant me or I was going to summon. But to be fair and honest, years ago I would have say this. But now I am mature and older. Tych nhw'n gwybod Cops, Bad Cops,みたいnaeth yma'r gwaith iddo, yma eich ygaf i fan hyn y gwael. Dyna hwnna gallwch yn ddullion, ac mae'n bod ganwch ei ddweud ym môl yn gweithio ar hyn rai. Mae'n cerdd wedi'u chael ei gyddon, a mae morhaid i'n brifio'n storfwyd, a ni'n gweithiwch ar gwrdd, wedi'i gwneud ei chael caudio. Rhaid i'n fwy flynu hynny'n gweithio'n gweithio? Felly mae'r cerdd er mwyn i ddim yn rhaid, Ond yw'r sgwpeth yn digwydd na cyflau fy amddangos a'r amser, fel pob gynnaeth ar hyn yn ysgrifennu, a ddigwydd yn ciol, yn y Chiwgwyr y Llywodraeth iawn, ac mae'r penderfyn llai, maen nhw yn gallu yn fel amddangos yr amddangos, ac rydym yn llawer yn ddegwyd, mae'r fflindarrion o'r rhannu. Rwy'n dweud i'w gwneud o'r ddefnyddio, a rhoi'n rwy'n meddwl o'i tyfn digwydd i'r llai, Byddwn i'n sgrudot, oes ein bodon yn gwneud. Ac fod y flynyddoedd wedi'i bod ni yn deilol y cwmmeidio ddangosion? Diolch yn gwneud, a'r iawn yr aeth yn gweithio chi ar-fysgol. Mae'r aeth yn ei gwympio. Mae ran gwympio, fe efallai mae erioed. Mae'r aeth yn gweithio ac neu wedi fan gael gan y ffordd gwysbwyr. Mae phosib wych gwertho'n gyfnod y gweithredu yn ffordd, neu mae'n gweithredu mewn cyllideb yn y gweithredu. Mae'n gweithredu iddo yn ddiolch. I say, she's here away, so she get a taxi done, so it'll be a first date, I'll never forget. Is she still stuck by you, sir? It failed James to tell me the truth. Run, run! Any other scene last year, wouldn't it? But I'm glad to say that she's stuck by me. And we're still going together just now. Her name's Ashley, her no teller's set name. She's favourite Maloch. Well, but Maloch says it all. It says it all. I think she was in the gringo when she was younger. And you know where Maloch is with me. So I started with that, then I go. But she's a lovely lassie, and we're still together and she stays with me. She's a worker now with me. I'm not a worker, I'm just a layabout. So that was one instance in about another six, seven months ago this year. I went to test school in Socky Hall Street. I'm a club card member by the way. So this was the second incident this year I'm getting hassle. So I went to get the door and I bought a few provisions and I'd bought this steak. The lassie forgot to take the tag off it. So it went off and the security guard would you come in. I says, they bought it and I went like that. I says, that's my receipt then mate. I says, I'm a shoplifter. I says, that steak's £6. I tried to steal £6 million. I'm not going to steal a £6 steak. So before you go to know it, the manager in that career. And she started shouting. I said, he's going to fuck yourselves. I mean, I says my club card member, I put this out. And she says, I'm getting the police for your cheek. I says, get the fuck you want to get. So anyway, the police came as usual, handcuffed. And she says, well then you should have a piece. Right, the steak wasn't even for me because the receipt was there. So I came out the door, the woman shouted. Mr McDonald's, I went, yes. She says, you're now barred from test school. And I shouted back to her. I put that on the list of pubs, clubs, casinos, strip clubs, airports, supermarkets. And I missed something there. Where's your points going as well? I'm basically barred from every bit. And this is, we try to lead a quiet life. But you think annoying that life of crime, you're always going to get hassle to the day you died. In Glasgow, I'm still well known, James. And people still say to me, we know you've got a few quads. And I'm trying to say, I'm out of crime and all of that. No, I'm in. Because you're a high profile. You've been in, like I say, you've been in 18 prisons. You've, you've done your 16 year sentence for a bank robbery. You've made documentaries. You've wrote your book as well, which is an absolute belt with your book. We can get that on Kendo. As well, how else can we get that? You can get it in Kendo. And the company that had done it, James, was mainstream productions. And they were based in Edinburgh. And they folded three years ago. So it kind of fucked me up for getting me a Trigmes. But it's some book. Random House have got the Trigmes here. They've still got the rights to it. But they've no published it again. But you can go on Amazon and buy it for 14 quads if there's any there. But it's on Kendo, so it's still there. But that's some book. The stories are unbelievable. And that's where we're going to go. We're going to go right back to the start where your life started. You were involved in all the crime and where you are now. So go right back, mate, where you grew up. Well, Trigme, I was originally... I come from Black Hill Provin Mall, right? But a lot of people don't know that I was born in Springburn. I stayed in Lensley Street. And there was a wheel was behind it. And it's just where the Springburn Sports Centre is. I was a wee back. I was born in 1961. So we were in a close. But then you never even had a toilet in the flat. So it was a toilet in the close. And I'm sure people as old as me will remember us. So I was born in a rotten row. Then my young brother Gary came along. He's a year younger than me. And so my earliest memory recollections is we had to share this tin bath. Something like your jacuzzi's and your baths and all that now. And the time we came six, I went to Albert Primary School. But my man, I used to take him to Woolworth's. And I must have been trying my destiny to lead a life of crime. You know the pic mix? I was always putting my hands in and stealing them. So I think that's what I started. I got a wee start, you know what I mean? But all kidding aside, we moved up to Alan. I think Alan was born. I've got three brothers and a sister. I had another brother but he died, John, tragically. He'd been older than me. He'd been wilder, whatever his real bit. Hopefully he wouldn't have been. So we moved up to Proven Mall. We had to move from a bigger house than that. And we moved to this house in Trompelli, a street in Black Hill. I thought I was in heaven. What other heaven was? It was a block house with two bedrooms. We had a bathroom. We had a big back garden. We were all in more glory. We were fucking, this is brilliant. But you've got to remember, James. It was brilliant. But Black Hill is not just a deprived area. It's one of the most deprived areas of Europe. But we still thought it was great. And then my sister Tracy, she came along in 1970. She was born there. And I had a lot of good times there. There was a motorway now. And it was a canal. It finished, I went to Ridgwick Primary School. And the canal ended at Ridgwick Primary School. And it finished up at Baylesson. So this canal, we used to go down a lot of good times. We'd go down with boys and arrows as young boys. There was water rats and all that. So we would try things, we would bug nest in them. No, it was great times. And we'd play Two Man Hunt. The boys had met up there. I don't know if you know of it, Two Man Hunt. At the time, you'd probably get a bar of chocolate after it. Just a lot younger than me. We would get a piece of lemon curd. That was a big treat for us then, you know what I mean? So we had a lot of good times. At that time, James, you could leave your door open. You know these days, at that time in the 70s, you could leave your front door open, back door open. The drugs were in the scene then. You know what I mean? I could honestly say, even though we came from a pure family, you know what I mean? We weren't in middle class on that. But I never came from a crime family. I'd like to state that as well. My mother was always a hard-working woman. And my dad was a hard-working guy as well. But what happened were all went wrong. My mum and dad ended up falling out. And my dad was disciplining by the way. And before I forget this as well, when I was five years, six years of age, he took my eyebrows. He was a sort of a ranger supporter. If he got cut, he wouldn't have bleeds red. He would have bleeds blue. And we moved to, as I say, Black Hill when I was six from Pellier Street. And Black Hill in Royston is known as, well, Celtic, the public area. So we got a lot of recollections. I died of a fuck, even though he wasn't a crook, but he loved Rangers. And so did I when I was five. All my pals up in Black Hill used to try and change way. He was ingrained in maybe then. That was the changing. So my dad used to come along and straighten us out. Then I'd go to other games. I'd go a few of them. And the ones I didn't, they'd come along and steamin. My mum would do that. And then Gary's nine, Alan was four or something. Get out and fucking get a man here. People are getting murdered for less. Well, I mean singing his ass. So we'd fucking drag him in. And there was two bedrooms in this. And me, Gary, shared a bump bed. And Alan was a single bed. And Tracy, when she was 170, I think she stood in my land eyes, but it was still good. But talk about the football again. Us three were in the room. No young boys. And I heard my dad grating. I was going, what the fuck's up my granny? So I went to investigate. I've sneaked out of the room. I says to my mum, I says, what's my dad grating for? She went, sonny's team Rangers get beat the day again. I went, what? So I went back into the room to Gary and Alan. I was in the choke bunk. And I went, oh, granny McDonald was nodded. I says, Rangers get beat. And I was in the choke bunk going, fuck that for a game of soldiers. Her team gets beat. I says, you're upset. I says, there must be more to life than that. So that was kind of a Drumpelia Street. And I made a lot of good trends there. I told you we were the canal. You know that and two man hunt. So 12 years of age, we moved again to get, we needed another room because of my sister. So we moved to Proven Mall and Black Hill. It's like a border. Everybody doesn't know Proven Mall and Black Hill. They seem to find it's the same area, but it's not split by Proven Mall roads. We are for Thompson. He stayed Proven Mall roads. And so we moved to Green Rigg Street. It was just running corner for you for Thompson. And another pal. Three years ago Paul Ferris did. She was just a couple of streets away as well. So we're doing in Green Rigg Street. I was 12. Then my secondary school came up and I went to secondary school. And it was a big rune school. And guess what it was about next day? Bellini. Which is Hail and Earth. I can say this to now. If any of the young ones want to disregard what I'm saying. I've been in there for 16 when I got Bostel. I know people might say how you're there at 16. But at that time, away back in 1977, I got Bostel training. And he went to Bellini and stayed there a couple of nights. And at 16 James, I'm not afraid to admit this. This was four or two a year ago. I was terrified. Terrified in Bellini. You know what I mean? For a young boy at 16, I know people that are now at 30 or 40. They're going for driving offence or whatever. So I was absolutely terrified. And I'm in this reception area. And all these other hardened crooks and all that. We're in the waiting room before they go and see the doctor. They check you for nicks and all that. And the seaside nippers running there. And if you're cheeky, I am if you're cheeky. So I don't. It's a guy. He's got a big lamp shade and all that. And see if you're cheeky. And loads of times, you see side nippers and you shave the... What's the side nippers? The seaside nippers is the crabs. Yeah, if you think me. Where's it? Silcoats. So you were in Bostel. I just turned 16. But before that James, we'd moved up to, as I say, we're on Green Rigg Street for 12. Maddath. Left at 14. We kicked out at 14. My Madd had enough of him. But when he kicked out, we used to have come to McGranny. So she stayed in Royston Avenue, up in Provinc Mill, her and McGrindir Jokey. And they were two fabulous people. I mean, that was my Madd's sister. And I used to sit with McGrindir. And I would watch the wrestling. Mike McManus. Giant haistacks. Big daddy and all that. So, in Uncle Charlie, my wise brother, he was in the Royal Marines. And he was always coming back for places, Singapore, Hong Kong, and bringing his wee presence. Brwer, proud of him, he's been in the army. And he would stay up at McGranny's for a couple of weeks. My Maddath was a psycho back and forth. But I used to love getting up to McGrindir's. And then tragedy struck when I was 14. Uncle Charles, he was 25. And he was based in Plymouth with the Marines. And I think he was in Malta or something. In the same army, a lot of people died in non-conflict accidents. I think they were changing attire. And he got crushed. So I was only 14. Byr this time, McGranny and Grindir moved into the Coal Street Flats in Germiston. And he's got my Uncle Charlie up. He was six feet four or something. And he was going to get married to this lassie as well. He'd been in if he was 16. I think he'd been in nine year. Nearly nine years. I think he was served up for nine years in about a year to go. And he died. I always remember that funeral. He was at Ridley Cemetery. He was always comrades for the Marines. He wore the uniforms on. Ridley Cemetery. I can still remember it. It was 40 odd years ago. And I still remember it. It was a sad occasion. We played the last loop. And it was it was sad. You know what I mean? I put him in the book. I said to myself, I'm never going to write a book. I put his photo in. So there's a book in. And there was one incident a few years ago. The book's been at six years. I've talked with my Uncle Charlie again. And I was standing at Ridley Library. I was waiting in somebody for something. And this guy came jogging by. And he was at 40 or something like that. I thought he was a prisoner officer. I said, I see a serious crime squad or something. And he said, I've read your book. Your Uncle is a fine soldier. I'm in the Marines. So that gave me a boost. That made me feel happy. His memory is still kicking on. His memory is still trying to return. And just the way he says that. But still at 14. After the funeral. So my dad is definitely away from the house at the time. And me and my two brothers we were always hanging about the corner at Green Side Street or the boys with my dad. He was strict. Which was a good thing. Especially when you brought up in a scheme. You can slip down the spiral. Especially in Black Hill, Proven Mill. They were bad areas. I know in this day and age Black Hill in Proven Mill. You could see everywhere now. James and Glasgow anywhere. Everywhere is bad now. There's no area. It's hard. There's so often river. But then Black Hill Proven Mill was. So my dad eventually left. We were a bit scared then. We took the country out of my mind. We hung about with the boys at the corner. We started car-feeving. That's how I get into crime. And car-feeving. Before you know it. A period about three or four months. I'd get a jail about three times. Car-feeving in police assault. And I ended up in a place in Larch Grove. In Edinburgh Roads. It was a place. I think Johnny Steel I watched. I know Johnny Well. I know Johnny Jim and Joe. I watched Johnny. I remember he was in Larch Grove. He speaks a lot about the jails. The places he was in and all that. He's quite right about the physical abuse it took place. I was never sexually assaulted. But I was took out a door on my few times. And took up a stain on my back pocket. Is this the guy called The Monk? No. I think Johnny was talking about it. I just got the jail last year. I got the jail. All the memories come back after watching your interview with him. With Johnny. You'd been dorms in that. I hated that. I was in there for an assessment. I was at a children's panel. I was at an assessment. I go to your approved school or whatever. So while I was in there. I was a frightened boy as well. I had no fear to admit it. I got took out a couple of nights. Felt my stare. I was at a prison officer. I was taking a little bit of a 14 year old boy. I mean. They'd make me a stone in the corner all night. And so. There was people who black killed that. And as well. I was in his dorm. Guys came up during the night. We had a diamond jack. And the thing we had the bars. They go up the mountain. They escaped. I was fucking in that door. The man's getting kicked fuck out of you. They get a sex lab used as well. The word. I've just been reading about it the last few years. I don't know if I should make a complaint. I was in the sex list. But I was kicked fuck out of you. I'm only a wee boy at 14. It's a fuck all. They would take you up. They'd put you in a dark room all night. Was that a priest then? Because this was an assessment centre. A large growth. That was the kind of way I think it was. Was it annoying to try and batter the boys to try and discipline them. That was the whole way I think. Even at schools you used to get fucking screwed. I know in seeing that belt. That belt was sore. That belt used to be. I remember in school. I was in school and I'd get the belt. And the teacher would do it in front of the lassies. And you didn't want to show any fear. But that belt, the six of the belt. It was fucking sore. But you tried to keep your face in. So the lassies would all go. Look at them. He's fucking a wee fucking wanker. He's a soft cunt, you know what I mean? That should have all been outlawed as well. Because it would never happen this day. Was that what you'd get a jail for? The car theft then? That time my mum was coming to the police station. There were a few times. Then they kept me in. This time for the car theft in the police assault. And I got three weeks. That's a large grove. Then I went back up in front of a swing me panel. And I got a year's residential training. And they sent me to a place in Paisley. A place called the Kibble. A proof school. I didn't like it in there either. I was only in there about three months. There was boys during the night. You would see boys greeting for their man. You know what I mean? They were in the nice places then. The governor then. His name was Gardner. We called him Plasty Ars Gardner. He was just about with his pipe. He was supposed to be shot in the ars. That sort of thing. He was working in the field. Picking turn-ups. I said in the book. I said, why were you picking turn-ups up? Where are you fawcig freezing? All Plasty Ars is getting of the benefits. The money is smoking his pipes. He's heart is content. So we were doing that. I went out into the home. I got out in the homeleave, they liked me out in the homeleave for this approve school. They remember all my pals saying to me, oh it looks in there, before it was great. And I says to them, trying me, I says look, I says it's no birds in sunshine. I says try picking fucking frozen turnips in a cold fields and fucking, as a governor, put the money's going towards him for his fucking, he obviously had this pipe and all that. And then I went back, then I ended up escaping. I escaped, so I escaped people in the cubo. I just said he didn't know what I meant. Then I went back to you think that I was only in there in a couple of weeks and at the time stealing cars again. But I used to steal cars, James. At the beginning it was just joy riding. Then I would get the wheel, people would order a thing me Mark. Mark won a cartina which was flashy cars then. They'd steal the wheels and cassettes. So I was making money like that. I was up on Green Side Street at a party. When I was on the run I've come out. I was chatting this last year. That was 14 and a half. My record came on, Rodg Stewart. Tonight's the night. Tonight's the night for me with those wee blonde birds. So nothing happened. I went out with my pals after the party. I got a chase, lost on the road. I crashed, police ran after me. I tried to assault them. I tried to hurt my friends. But they didn't give a fuck. I get smashed fucking with truncheons and all that. So that was me thing me. Or a small time crime, innit? This was a small crime. So I graduated to Long Regend school boys. And as soon as I turned 16 I was in with the big boys. But on my 16th birthday the way it worked out I got three weeks detention in Bostel reports. Detention consisted of eight weeks. Bostel could be nine months, twelve months, whatever. So the day I went to Glasgow Sheriff Court for the police assault in this car a couple of representatives worked in the cable. They came to me and they said, like we can get you a two year residential order in the Rossie farm. And I said fuck off. I said two years. I said I could go and plead guilty. That's what I'm doing anyway through these reports. I said the sheriff could give me detention eight weeks. Bostel. I said nine months, ten months, whatever. I says, but if I take two years residential training in Rossie farm I says, I'm in the opinion now. I'm going to be a crook. They went what? They says, do you know what I was going to talk up for you? I says, no. I says, because we see you sitting in the two years Rossie farm. I came back out. Then I'm going to get Bostel. I'll get her with a new. Oh, do you know what that Bostel was like? No, I said I don't give a fuck. But I did give a fuck. I must have gone back to this. So that's what happened, James. This was me talking about giving to Berlin. This was my first time. I got sent that day to Bostel training. I was hoping for detention, but I got Bostel training. He took me up to Berlin. I said, I don't know if I could see it for school or that. I must have been looking at it saying I'm destined for this fucking place. I got in there. It was frightening. I was sitting in the waiting room. Through the older guys. The guys with scars and all that. I'm not myself. I'm trying to intimidate you. They were kind of going, you look awful white and all. I said fuck. I said white. I said fuck. Fucking shit myself. And then I heard one of the screws coming out of the white coat. You weren't going to see the doctor in that. And I heard them saying, right, name and number for this officer. So I turned around to this guy and I said his name and number. I said, do you still use the same name and number for the longer end? He went, Reemann, you know the children's playground. Anyway, you're in Berlin. I said, fuck it. I don't know the name and number. I looked up and went, listen son. It's his. Mama has me a chance to get the fucking numbers up in the bingo. If you're remembering your number for the longer end. So then they shouted me and I just ran in. And I just fucking blubbered. Give the numbers and the other thing. They gave me the thing. There was an AC sign up. I never got my haircut. Stayed in Berlin for two days. Absolutely hated it. And I could see you at the window. I said, James, take him all to St Rumpelia Street. And I could see that this time the motorway, the canal would bring me the motorway was there. And I was looking at who's going like that. I wish I was back with my man. I was back with my man. And I'm not ashamed to say that. Any 16-year-olds at that time, Berlin, and I went back. This was a way back in 1997. I just turned 16 then. So I went to a place in Berlin the two days. I was like, fuck me here. So I went to a place, I'm missing the name of the boss. Pullman. Went to Pullman and I got there and I was in the reception. And I saw these guys with suits. I went, what the fuck is the CID in here? The CID turned out that was the prison officers. They didn't wear uniforms. And so they were thinking, they were going to a place called Alley Caly. A lot of the boys that will be listening to the show, they'll know what I'm talking about. I mean, there was a centre called the Allocation Unit. And you went there for a period of about six weeks. Then the SSJ, where you stayed in Pullman. They had two open... two open barstools. One was in Castle Huntley, which is now used for an open prison. But at that time it was a barstool. Another one was non-side. So you go to six weeks' assessment. But wait, wait, I'll tell you what happened. I have no fucking clue. So the prison officers would get back, there's Alley Caly, and a couple hundred prisoners there. So I get put into my cell and the prison officer says, you be woke up. I think it was six o'clock, half six in the morning. No, I'm in because it was to give you a shock. It was to give you a shock, this barstool and detention centre. And fucking was a shock. He says to me, have that, see your bed sheets in your covers. He says, have that in a bed block. I says, what the fuck's a bed block? He says, I want you to have it all squared and fold your sheets and tuck it in. So he says, I'll get a boy to show you what you're doing. I don't know what the fuck to do with that. So next morning this boy says, be prepared. Everybody goes to the gym first thing in the morning. He says, your door won't have six. He says, you be took to the gym. I says, off six, the fucking gym. So I'm still fucking trying to make this fucking bed block. I think I made a circle shape instead of that. And I've got these shorts on. And I had to be at my cell by this time when one of the prison officers, he went, get out of your fucking cell, you're still in already. I got out of the cell and I started walking along. He skipped me right in here. I went, no, bunny hops. I went, what the fuck's a bunny hop? But the people in front of me, I was just I was just still in shock with this fucking bed block. And I realised that instead of the people walking along the corridor, they had their horns, James. I don't know if you know what a bunny hop is. If you have your horns behind your neck, and you're fucking bunny hop, I'll hang the fucking coat. It's hard as fuck. I don't know what a bunny hop is, why do you think you would do that? Oh, you did that in Boston. This was in 1977, March. So you bunny hoped all the way along the fucking gym. I kept fucking falling. Why did you make you do that? In fact, no, I mean. Why did you make you do that? It was to give you a shock and it was to... It was to embarrass you a bit. It was embarrassing. It was the ex-army prison officers. And they were trying to get you in there. And I think, well, the goodness here for them was they were trying to get you a better person. Don't get back to prison. So I don't know that. The Enduring the Day, they had you cleaning. But they had you cleaning with a fucking toothbrush. Then Connie doesn't know that. It was a heavy, heavy regime. I met a lot of good people in there. So I did as well for years ago. And... I was shocked at all. I met him. He was four years younger than me. And he was for Berliner. I still know shock for this day. And I played Tomical Martin. For the Calton. A big boy Frank Ward. There was loads of people he lied about. There was loads of people I got to know. And my first book. I'd never read any books in my life, James. And I said, fuck it. I'm bored in the cell. She's going to read a book. And I remember the book. It was Papillon with all books. It's like A Skate for a Jewel. I in France. So that was the first book. I always remember. I'm an avid reader. Just now, still to this day. And this book was loads. And I read that. And my man, my sister Tracy. Was coming up to see me. And Gary. By this time. He was in a proof school. Allen he ended up. Gary ended up in a place called Jailsland in Beath. And Allen ended up in St John's. So my man said he must have been fucking nothing. And Gary, many Jails were you then before you were 18? Before I was 18. I'd been in Larch Grove. I'd been in the... I'd been in the Cibble. I'd been in Berlin for the couple of nights at 16. I'd been in the... Pullman in Alicali. And that's what I forgot to tell you, James. After the six weeks, the assessment. You go to see the governor. And see before you see the governor. They grab you by the neck. And the boys will tell you that. And they run you right in the fucking door and flew you right in. You've got your name and number of the governor. Your name. So they decided they were sending me to Castle Huntley. I mean... They sent me up there. And I was only up there a couple of weeks. And this boy would ride with me. He was about 19. I was still 16. And he was dormitories at the time, you know what I mean? And he... I don't know, right? He was in White Marmere and I just kicked his face, right? He was lying in his bed. And fucking... So... I settled into Bosto. And he... After six months you get a blue shirt and a red shirt. Then you move. You don't get another bit here. And they had a sports day, you know that as well. And... Once you're near the end. I remember August. I'd been in... It was at Bosto. For March. 77. I remember doing about August 77. I think Elvis Presley died, you know what I mean? And... It was the same. I think it was the same year, Kenny Douglas. I'm into my football and all that. Even though I'm not biased. I'm used to my family or Celtic. You know what I mean? My boy and my last year in Celtic, you know what I mean? And I'm Rangers. I wouldn't change for the world, you know what I mean? No, I'm not changing now, you know what I mean? Maybe you should. I've got Stevie Gerrard. I'd like to welcome... I'd like to welcome Stevie and Alex to the city. And say don't go to Princess Square. Go to Princess Pub. No, I'm Smithy Crossroads. Further Rangers supporters. Heavy Browns pub. So don't go there, you know what I mean? That's a wee tip for you, you know what I mean? But I carried Oglish. I always remember being in Bosto. He was a record transfer for you. £440,000. To say... Where was it? Was it Liverpool he went to? And that was that same year. Elvis Presley died that year as well and all that. But I ended up being in six or seven months. And they let me for a day release. My mana came up. Took me into Dundee. Your wand don't drink and all that. You could set you back. Then I was working on the cuckoos in there James. That was my job. But I went to be in the gardens and there wasn't any forth coming. I was saying I'll get. I drove in the gardens for the summer. But the time it came up to the summer they said look, we've got the job. But I like to the cuck's that much. And there were boys for Paisley and all that as well. And they were like he's extra food and all that. We'll square you up. The two of them were in. The big boy, Andy Malley. And I'd give them extra trips and they'd give me bars of soap. We came on to eat like that. Go a long way in prison. So I enjoyed the cuckoos. I stayed in it. I got up before 17th birthday. I got up before 17th birthday because I got the boss through when I was 16 and three weeks old. And I'd done 11 months. So eventually he'd release me a week before I was 17. So there's a twist to this. A lot of people don't know this. They think that that was me just I've actually had a job, James. Mama worked in Forest Hall Hospital. Years ago it was called The Poor House. Research that on the book. Mama worked in the canteen. My two aunties they worked in the cuckoos. Forest Hall. So they used to work here. Mama she's in the canteen. She could talk to them. So they used to work here. Mama she's in the canteen. She could talk to them. She could talk to these guys. A guy dunking a dunking light body. And there was a guy, Mykerica. They were heating engineers. You'll remember this street. Hotspur Street. Mary How. So mama I get talking and my boys just do it at Worstown blah blah blah blah blah. Mama says I'll take him on. Mama says I've got a fucking job. She says what is it? A heating engineer? I said fuck. But James I took it on. They get the guys. The guy dunking light body. He took a big chance. Mama explained look. He's just do it. And he says he's a year later to go to college. But I'll give him a chance. Put him through it. So I done it. I done it for five months when I was enjoying the job. Not I mean. But then I went to the problem milling. Couple of the troops had a stolen car. Jumped into it. He's fucking crashed. Polis again. And that was me back. I went to a place called Longregend. And a... A fucking job. So this was the heating. To be fair mama I was come saying you fucking stupid bastard. I said I know a drunk jumped into this motor. Blah blah blah blah blah. She says don't sell well and to take you back. But I was so embarrassed now. How can I get back? He was a cracking guy. And his partner was George McCarricker. You know what I mean? This is a year 1978 we're at now James. 40 years ago. And I actually enjoyed the job. Imagine me a heating engineer in the studio and stuff. Can you imagine if you're stuck to it as well? Imagine we're a good job. A heating engineer is a good job. See you know what I mean? Right on to your A team. Is there ever a time you've done fuck this? Because the amount of times you were in for 15, 16, 17, 18. I ran them off. I just went fuck it. That's where everything started spiralling. If you could get a free for all the day what you wanted. So then I made the decision James. When I was in for the the other car theft and the police I saw. Barton. I never Barton. They Barton me you know what I mean. Ended up getting. I think I get free month. And after the free month my masses looked. Dunking their asses. Masses I'm just embarrassing back to that job. I says fuck it. I says I'm just a life a crime fuck it. You just accepted it then? I just accepted it then. Then I started getting out with a couple of other people. And I was travelling over England. And I was still still low time. I was short left in what I mean. And I get a jail in Blackpool. You're not a very good jail in Blackpool. You're not a very good jail in Blackpool. I went to a place called Risley. It's in Cheshire. Risley, Risley. All the boys deliver pool Manchester. And that go there. So I'm in there at 18. And we've got remandings. Free week remanders. I'm in. Stole a video recorder at the show. And all that. Beat a Max. And all these were all the thingy hangs. And so we got to come back to this. Bed and breakfast we were staying in. Get to jail. So we went to Blackpool Magistrates Court. And I got six months. Well just before that in Risley, Risley. They were shouting. Cone is jox and all that. And I was saying to the boys for the vid pool and that. Who the fuck are you calling jox? And I said fuck off. So this guy. This guy. I can't hear it. I can't hear it myself. So this guy. I'm trying to remember everything James. It's quite hard. I know what this means. There's loads. We're looming. This is breakfast time. You sit back. The boys for Liverpool. I'm in this Risley, Risley. Right? I don't know if it's a woman's prison. At the time. I said guys. 1978. And this guy was annoying me. I said I'm going to batter his content. I mean. Cos I was a bit wild and all then. So you were allowed radials in. And you got a PP9 battery. And then the book. There's a chapter called Sweaty Sock. So I said fuck him. He says say that to me once. I'm doing the one. So what I did. I took my PP9 battery out of my radio. And he was lying in his bed. I went are you doing big man? I still want to call me a Sweaty Sock. He went are you? I just went like fuck you. Smashed him right away. So I bolted. But the found out it was me. And they put me down in the block. And I thought I'd smashed a scene with this fucking thing. You know what I mean? But they couldn't really prove it. It was me. The guy was me sticking him in. You know what I mean? Saying that to the guy for Liverpool. In the coming years I've made loads of Liverpool guys. So there were a lot of good guys. But this was just this instance. 18. And they were all singing out their windies. Cos the bloke was going. The jocks in the block. The jocks in the block. And I was all that. Fuck yous and all that. But you think that was just to know when people were trying to pick on you Billy kind of. A lot of Billy. But I thought it was a bit of a foray to make a name for yourself and make a stand. Anybody says that and nobody's talking about it. And I wasn't taking any shit then. Cos I'd been minding chicken. To go 100%. So we went to court. After the thing with the Sweaty Sock incident. I mean they took me to court. The bloke gave us six months. So guess what they've took me? They've took me to HMP Walton. Liverpool. And I went for fucks. I said it's a cunt for the Sweaty Sock. I said he's going to avoid his fucking balance. His family there. But it turned out. I was there. I had a couple of other recharges to get for in the Scotland. So I was only in HMP Walton at the time. And when I was in it there was an actual escape. You know what I mean? I think there was a radio station called it was called the Metro or something. And two guys actually escaped Liverpool. And so I was there about six weeks. And I got a letter in that through. You had to go up to Scotland on a couple of charges. I was like fuck you here. So they transferred me up to a place called Lownooting. I think it's a women's jail now. It's near Durham. It was in there a week or something. Then they took me to Glen O'Cole young offenders. The first time I'd been in there. And they took me up with this other boy, Donnie MacDonald. The canvas line in the relation. And Donnie was expecting... I was only expecting a couple of months. Donnie was expecting 18 months. But turns out he gets free a year. So we were in the same section in Glen O'Cole Y-O-Y. And Donnie refused to work and all that. And he's next door to me. And he says to me this Saturday. We were only there two or three weeks. He says I'm smashing myself up. Right? And we'd managed boys were making a switch. So we'd get steaming. I mean Donnie and that and a few other people. And the doors, it wasn't a keys. It was all these central lock. You'd press the doors open. And you'd press your buzzer to go to the toilet. And you were allowed out three or four minutes. So the reason I'm telling you this story is to get my gun barbed in. The prison officers, Donnie was causing all this trouble. Fucking smashing his cellar. You know what they were doing? Go on Donnie! Encouraging them. So the fucking door in my doors went click. About 10 o'clock at night. I went to the fuck's that that door went. They've only fucking picked it around McDonald's. They've come in, they've dragged me out. And there was a place called the Russian Mail. In the Glen O'Cole. The boys are not. It's a big long corridor. They're not fucking out of me. Enc me, Encnam, Donnie McDonnells. They've got me down to the fucking segregation. You know that? And I fucking barbed fucking. And I'm sure they come the next day. I went, fucking hell. I said, where the fuck was that? They says, I just shout at your window and all that. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You've smashed her cellar. And one of the officers says, no, we go to the ring. But by this time I've been not fucking. Blah, blah, blah. So that was me. I'd been, I'd get out. And I went to Glen O'Cole young offenders. Another two times. Three months, six months. It was always sentences. I know you're saying all these sentences, man, but it's every fucking... As soon as you're out, you're back in two weeks later. It's a good education. It's getting me fucking wider. I mean, I'm wanting to get my ladder. You just rang daff of the jail in New York. Oh, I'm going to start with you. There's a lot of angst that's trying to remember. So Glen O'Cole, another couple of times in there. And while I was in Glen O'Cole young offenders, Alan, my brother, he'd been in St John's. He was a younger brother. He's ended up in detention. And my wee, my God bless her. She says he needed a discipline. And this Glen O'Cole young offenders, it was a detention centre. You'd done eight weeks. It was a sharp shock treatment. Right? And they had it running and fucking disaster. Two of brushing the flair and the bed blocks. And they got all the best of food. But it was a solid eight weeks of training. And that was to try and put people off the crime. Just let the boss down, you know what I mean? And my mals, remember my mals saying is, she says I walked in. It was a wee bit gael. She says you had to march, you had to know that. She burst out and took me. She said you had to sit down this way. You know that. She's back. And he was so polite. My mals says, that's what you need to kick up the ass. But he get into trouble as well. But moving on from there. The Glen O'Cole, a couple of times. Then at 20. That's when you started to get into serious stuff with that? No, in 19, sorry, 19 I started getting into serious stuff. Paul Ferris was Paul's realon. My young brother. And Paul was 16 at the time. And I had no room in that. I used to come to my mals house and stay in that realon in that. And he always knew I was up to Skalduggery. I'd graduated. I said fuck this, I'm moving up. So I moved up to jewelry robberies. And I was doing a lot of running around hugging fuel lock. To keep myself fit in case I get a chase to get away. So Paul says to Alan Monday, he says, what is it, blinks then? I says he's always fucking running around hugging fuel lock. And he says, well he says, he's graduating into jailers. I mean he says, what do you mean? He says he goes in, he runs out. He says he's going to put a word then for me. And Paul came to see me and I says, I need water, bro. I says, Paul was working at the time. He was working for a spirit company and all that. The loving spirits and all that. I think that was the only joke he had at the time as well. And Paul came with me. I think we went in and fell when they were somewhere. And I always planned a route and all that. A mile, two mile away from the place. And I says to Paul, I says, look, I died up this to Liz and we parked the car in case I get a chase. I says, we're back in ten minutes. I was back in nine, jumped in the car, three of the rings. We were three or four thousand pounds. Nineteen eighty. That's a lot of money then, you know what I mean? I think we got about five hundred pounds each or something. I says, you're doing the next one. I said, you're doing the next one. So we've done that. And I'm no ashamed to say, that we ended up getting a reputation for serious violence as well. We'd steal Stanley blades, B and Q. And me and Paul were going into the town and we were going into Jamaica Inn. And Ultratech was one of my favourite places in Wellington Street. And some places she was not back for you know that. And me having another few piles we were called the Stanley Gang. And the time I was bringing me 20, about twelve or thirteen people. But I was only trying to get in there first. And we came to the attention of the godfather, Arthur Thompson. I'd went to school with my great-his-daughter in Young Arthur. I knew Young Arthur. And I forgot to say Young Arthur. I was in the Army Cadets as well, James. When I was thirteen, Young Arthur was in it as well. It was a place called A Caledonia in West Princess Street. We were at the West End, on the road for the Black Kill. We used to go there. So Paul says to me, we've been thinking, we've been to Provenmal in the Mawr. And I had an idea. Cos we were coming to recognition that we were then. Was that the name you were making for yourself? The damage? The damage in the stealing, the robberies and that. The cutting and all that. I said no, I'm no one. So he went and saw me the next day. He said to me, he says, they're talking about a lot of money and all that. And I said, look Paul, I said you're going to be a debt collector. I said, while Arthur's sitting in the Ponderosa, on his leather chair, watching Minder, drinking brandy and smoking cigar. I said, you're going to be a bail bondsman. He says, there's seen a lot of money. I said stick with me. I said I'm going higher. Cos at the time, the jewellers were just running in and out with the trays. We'd graduated smashing the windies as well. Getting me stuff out of them. I just crashing the fucking windy in during the day. You know what I mean? In all our places. But we'd done that many stuff. We had to graduate to get into England. We'd fucking rattled Neil everywhere in Scotland. And I was a great believer in our hygiene wall in robbing English. We'd done a lot of things and that was before. I said to Paul, I said, I wish you luck. I said, I'm going to do your main thing. That was about 22 at the time. In Fox 80s, we were only still young boys. We were only young boys. But it was wild. Black killin' Robin Mow. There was people that were going up with the crombies and the boots and all that. Big steakys. You would see all this, I mean. So it wasn't a really... See, Mada left. It wasn't a surprise me getting into that, James, I mean. But as I say, Mada struck this up on her and good-ranger supporter, of course. I knew everybody was watching us. He likes his rangers. I'm not scared to say. I know my family. I know my pals. My pals. But I don't hold that against anybody, I mean. Hopefully he won it this year. Hopefully he won it this year. Come on, Steve. You're doing well. So that was about 22. 22, James. I think I was... I think I get yielded. 22, this is what happened. There's that many to say, I mean. 22 I was wanted for about 10 Julia robberies. I didn't even know this at the time. And at the time as well I had a car and two guys stepped in front of me and tried to stop me and they looked them up there. I didn't even realise it was a 2C ID for Baird Street. So they were looking for me for attempting murdering of 10 Julia robberies. And at that time I think it was 1983. I am between the two. 1983 it was. I get a passport. See the passports now it's 10 year passports at that time, James. It was a yearly passport. You could go into George Square, big post office, get somebody else's date of birth and put your photo a year passport. I don't know if you've ever heard of that. No, it's all chapped then. This is what you done. I get the passport and I know the police were looking for me, you know what I mean. So I fucked off to Benidorm first time abroad. Stayed there for six weeks, came back and I was on the plane. I was all tanned. I had this T-shirt that says Keating and all that white shorts. It had this fucking big donkey, right? The thing we touched on Glasgow Airport. This is the first three times I've been interested at an airport by the way, right? The next man at this guy came on Faye Bairdstreet, I think his name was Mick Vicker, you know what I mean. He was always chasing me about another guy. I had a heavy tan on me and all that, you know what I mean. Marked my face but I turned looking back with this thing. You know what I mean in Focain the plane stopped and says would everybody sit down and nobody's getting off and doing this, Mick Vicker was shouting Dean Mcdarnodine Mcdarnodine I'm sitting in my pal, you know what I mean. He walked right by me and he didn't know it's me. So I said to my pal take that donkey, I said that's for my man, you know what I mean. I've got the Keating T-shirt and the white T-shirts and I've ran all the way up to the Passport control and I've given them the thing expecting to go through the vaults and just Mick Vicker and the rest of them all came out and they went, good try. I went, what do you mean, good try? I said my name's Joseph. They went, no, no, good try. Snips. Where did you come back from? See at the time James and still now I've always wanted to go to Spain or go abroad to stay but I'm a family man. I miss my man. At 22, the sun was too hot. I was going as regions so that was the reason I came back but I didn't think it was going to get caught because I was still using this passport but somebody grassed me, you know what I mean. That's what happened. Somebody definitely grassed me. I slashed the guy for it. Why did somebody stick you in? Cos I had a bit of trouble with this guy so I just slashed him in the outside pan of my jacks one night. I know I might sound a bit of a thug but I'm not a thug. What happened? So what happened was but that's not really any good, is it? It's like something. It's an ID parade still in the other place a couple in England but this one in Kaleil, this lassie only took one person in Kaleil with ID's in me too and she says it's definitely him so I got 18 months at Durham I was in Durham. Was that for all the jewellers as well? It was just to know I couldn't approve the ones I got 18 months in Berlin sorry for the copper they reduced that it was just fucking hurting the bunny 18 months for that and this was 83 I played guilty to that 18 months for the copper hitting him with a motor then they transferred me down to Durham and there was a Pallymines Albert Moffat he came through Casimolc and Albert was going down to England as well he was going down for a fraud charge and he wasn't with scrubs so they joked to me half at Durham because I'm going to go to Kaleil Court in Albert I'm also Albert for the ears but me and them used to go to do the jewellers as well and what happened was I lined my beds reading this magazine or something and my radio the tellies didn't come in years later so the radio on that but Moffat Faglasgw was going to accuse me of slashing his Donald Nelson so the guy done the 16 guys became in London he strangled them up and the 16 victims never get killed because there was a clip on Ty the rest were real ones his name was Donald Nelson and he came through Aberdeen and it was a serial killer and we were 15 years old and he was taking them back to his house and he was killing them and he was boiling them up and the drains were smelling of fucking bodies and somebody reported that he originally came through Aberdeen like this guy so seeing the scenes of Albert Moffat I thought we were fucked Albert I can't believe that I came back I just remember my brother Gary after he got to Jailsland a proof skill Gary he got done up at the Broomfield garage for stabbing somebody and he got to Bosto then for there he was only a couple of months he was 19 and he was at St Rock's there used to be a social club there James and Gary was lying there I was up in Long Regenda the freeze that was us a reputation then I was starting to build it up the freeze the cold is the Stanley gang and a couple of other pals but there was a lot of older guys in Black Hills, the kiddies at the time and there were kind of bullies but when we got a bit older we got them back we didn't forget so my brother Gary he was at the rock club and he there was a social club there and he made this lassie he went back to me and said mama is in that front mill so he went to lassies doing it cold street flats when my granny used to stay go to the door this guy opened the door and the guy went who the fuck are you Gary went who the fuck are you and he went that's my brother the guy chicken Gary just pulled out of Stanley cut his throat and that I meant so Gary a year for that and it was a long weekend at the time for something and somebody says that what was your brother's freaking reception I mean, no, you have attempted to murder him and I went what and I saw he was in and I was like fuck he's in trouble here and all that because we hadn't done big sentences it was only Gary done about three months on that the 18 month and this is before the calio hanging I'm going back just going back a bit so I'm in this long weekend for a shite here it's out near Green Gears in Erdre so I'd done something to put me in the fucking block or the segregation unit for three days so I says fuck this he took me for exercise and I was watching this fucking pole get up to the roof so Andy I says fuck this nothing enough and I went for the pole and I slid right up it and I started throwing slates at the screws and he came down and I said I'm coming doing fuck all Gary was a wee to quote that day I mean for something and this Jimmy Hall he was screwing long weekend people would know him he used to always go to the kitchen and he'd put chips on a pine with his hat so he was not just Jimmy the pie man he used to put chips on his hat he sat in a fucking a pie on that on his hat and walk out there and eat it he was a bastard as well he moved to Berlin as well and a right dog and so the day I was up in the roof they eventually got me down no before I fucking threw fucking off the slates in the roof the governor shouted up please come down he was only fucking shouting cos he knew through an Edinburgh home office he'd probably loose his fucking job cos I think it caused 50,000 pound of damage or something so Gary's came back he got told him and other few boys set their cells in fire and I'm doing the block and long weekend the cells believe it or not in the segregation unit the reason I'm saying the block cos in England they call the segregation the block and in Scotland they bring the segregation unit or the digger totally digger so I'm doing there and I hear all this shouting I've come down for the roof and next to me Gary's been fucking holding and I've heard his voice and they came to my door and they went I think you're a fucking big man he says we're batting your fucking brother I could hear Gary screaming he was naked but they went away and I shouted you Gary went I and my boys are killing me he says the tone cuts in the back of him and he's kept fucking punching his balls so he's off fucking them so the next day they took me Gary we thought we were going to cut stairs we were really young boys and he took us to Berlin and he says to his he says look it was highly unusual cos we were on the 20th you know what I mean and he says to his look he says any mere straight for yous you get a tanking so Gary was a couple of cells of length for me and he's waiting to get up for this attempt murder by slashing the guys through it I'm interested but charged at the time and I thought it was going to get a bit forward year and my being got away with it so the case came up and a screw came in to me this day Gary was away one day before the trial was going to be three or four days and screw came in to me and he took my line to talk and he went oh your brother's just going back eight years and I went that is the fucking danger he's nineteen at the time that's a big sense at that time I'll be back in 1981 you know what I mean the bars that we monkeys and the thing where I shouted he says Gary Gary and I get fucking eight years he says eight fucking years and I says what happened he says he's fucking he says oh he's coming stuck his hand and he says I think the judge was dying to get away that day and the case just finished that day and he gave him eight years I felt sorry for him he said eight fucking years and he went through that so I ended up getting out and Gary he went up to Glenoco and he get transferred for there I think he went to the hot plate one morning and he's he got a boiled egg or something like that and he complained and he says something he says to the screw he says that boiled egg's fucking soft or something and the screw he says look just fucking take it and he says something I think Gary chinned him so he moved into a place doing the Dumfries it was called Jesse Fields but now it's known as Dumfries prison you know what I mean at that time in 81, 82 it was the young offenders and Gary's doing there I know the Mademov figures Gary's doing there as well and they were all doing lifers eight years and me and Albert Moffat who I mentioned earlier who borrowed a car after my pal Starkeening for Royston and 22 at the time and we were all suited up to Gary and at that time there was need it was the vinyl discs there was groups called Men at Work for Australia Blondie America's Serial Tramp Super Tramp so we got these things for him and we had a big block at Pakistan for the two of them so we went to visit, suited up and there was a place called the warehouse dancing it was in Dunlop Street and there was a place next to it called the Mardi Gras it was a guy Michael Modellan on it so we used to go there I mean and then so we went in and saw them gave Gary and Tharrie their twig and hash put their records and all that and so Albert went back to me and he says listen he says do you want to go to Moffat isn't he Moffat do you want to go to Moffat Willingmouse just buy them free and he says we'll get myself a sheep I saw the age in, 22 35 years ago so that would have had the pouches in them it was a really good sheep and we were good at the shoplifting as well because I had pouches in my uncle's home I used to speak about it it was the business in that way so we were in there and we took the bugzaff and we put them on they saw as we walked in the car a lot of walking in the warehouse and saying let's go for sheepies and all that on the suit so we went to motherwell and took in the next one it was for Cain it was Van, one copper he must be fucking speeding and he was stoked he was only one copper because I went like that motherwell know what I mean but they weren't running like that anyway and I heard them saying to Albert Albert was good on the part they were like that they just came through Moffat Willing Moffat Willing won't be any chance and we went no we bought them doing it at Leeds we've got a lot of that we've got car dealers we've just got back up it was my looking in your boot and we've got reports saying this car was in Moffat and there's two sheep skins and they went no not at all and I'm listening to Albert we've got anyone know what I mean but it was good at that and they've opened the boot know what I mean and the screw went and had a look at it Albert would go to his tag after he says Moffat Willing mouse so when he's unacked so I was ready to run out of the car before you know we were on our way back so we're in this this was a Sunday so we're in Dumfries police station that night and I was like this is going to be funny if we get remandied more we're going to get the screw we gave the visit pass to get to Dumfries he's going to be there from their back to stay so we went to Dumfries played guilty expecting a fine but I think people at Dumfries as well as regions were after that and all the rest were so they were like that so I called it I was going to call it in the chapter two wolves and sheep's clothing but I called it something else because it was so comical for these two sheepies so the sheriff remandied us to this same place there was a weird remand bit and at Dumfries Jessefield I said this is going to be a fucking laugh we'd only been there the day before 100 and hash and fucking see these we were able to record things and screwed us right away and I went for fuck's sake we were using them back and he shouted to this screw 4 o'clock the whole of Macdonald and trugging his bow out of their back so we went into this remand and I tried to get a bit of this fucking hash you know what I mean so Gary shouts ah so Gary shouts so they put me and Albert in together so shout and look the only way you're going to go and see is it will be Thursday it says the next two mornings we're going to see the fucking traffic so we're going to see the fucking traffic and Gary says he'll be up there in his pile and he says we'll get a bit of this hash right okay this is the dentist I'm sitting with my teeth are really bad so we're up there in the screws tippled Gary and that came in and he went no no you're not seeing them he says use of just went to the dentist so you could see them you know what I mean he went for fuck's sake we're not in the stone ages for fuck's sake let me talk to my brother no so again the dentist the guy's like that I put my head back and he's well like that fucking hell he says you've got two bad teeth before I do it he's built two bad teeth I've walked to fucking blood all over his Albert wheel like that fuck's sake I'm all right I'm looking in so we get back to ourselves we're up at the window shouting Gary Gary you're better at pricks I says I've got two fucking teeth to cut and all that so that was just a I guess he filled the mattress so we went to court and he ended up getting his free month for that no I mean but your biggest sentence came when when I was 30 when it when I was 30 James just before it I was still doing things I mean I was still doing robins and that now and again I mean I'd graduated but I wasn't a full pal and I met her last day and we ended up taking her a pub up in Springburn Talisman it's a pure wreck you know what I mean it should actually be condemned so we took this pub here and I was I was I was 26 when I met Sheila 27 she's the last it's getting my son Darrow to his so we took the pub there and it was a rough pub as you know that there and they were all saying the smack and fuck no I said to the boys this is like a candidate this we're going to make this a good pub blah blah blah blah blah blah blah the smoking hash so we go off for a campaign and all that and people were coming in before the pub was opening they were saying listening it says so and so bar the aim blah blah blah blah blah blah it says everybody's in the fresh start here and it turned out James the people it was saying bar the aim they were the worst cats they were getting barred so the boys were smoking the hash and I couldn't be a picker I smoked the hash but the old brigade where your money is for your hofs and your hofs they were going to look this fucking hash so this is to the boys look I'm going to get something sorted I'm in the bar and the boys there was a domino team but they broke up between me two so I went to find my sims automatic something very ill I've got a big pool table I says to all the young troops come here I says going in there and smoke your heart's content we hashed doing seriously I went seriously but don't come at this fucking door up there I thought that was great no I'm in I'm in the pub then and there are a couple of years in that and time came to 30 I was doing well I turned a flat on the south side the time I was 25 you know what I mean and she had a flat south view terrace across the Ashfield Motors I don't know if you'd remember that to a young it's just a stockpile and time I had a WXR2 and I was in the Spam valley that's Bishop Briggs and she was so so they just moved up to Bishop Briggs but we were in this pub not a bit of hassle and I used to keep a shotgun behind the bar in case there was any hassle as you do we never really get any trouble at the back this pub was so big we were eating a flat and it was there and we were staying in it and it was great my mum was working in it and a couple of my cousins in that is that my is that my so anyway that time was fair we had a caravan and anstrother being a pal up here at the pub McEely I was in for a shoot at the time I got away with it I was expecting 10 year Mc get 10 year for this post office so he went up to shots there was only up shots 10 month and he escaped in a butcher van he's the only guy there is that's actually escaped when people say they escaped for a prison open prisons you just walk out but shots is a high security prison whereas it's hard to get out he was away he turned up at the pub this day he was away for a year a year and a half and he'd come back he'd been in Germany and England everywhere and he's quite a smart character Mc and he came up to me he says I'm in Turkey he says I'm buying a bank up £6 million would you be interested and I went aye of course I would but I says is it a gore well I'm going to get away for a couple of months get everything sorted out and I'll be back to see you when they came back to see me he just walked in the door and my answer was aye because I always wanted to be the age of 30 I wanted to be on my own in Air Gems and I always wanted to go to my bear open up my nightclub you must have been close by at that age well at that age I was then no bad at that turn I was then turns at a time for £100,000 a couple of hundred grand you know what I mean and a bit two and three wee splits but I was always a spender James I've been a nightclub guy there was 17 years of age for a community bosto and I was always I was always spend for the day in case you're no here the more I would you think you spent a lot but because there was a good chance of me being back in the jail would you think you were trying to enjoy it as much as you can unless I get killed that was the reason because people always just say how did you know I used to say money how did you know just put a lot by I used to say I was the opinion I might need the more hope you're a buster whatever but Mick so I've agreed to that and me and his brother went down we were going down to Torquay it was down at Torquay this was May 1991 I was I was just trying to turn fair he had a young boy at the time he just turned two he was born in Stockpile in 89 and we were staying Crow Howl Road at the time up at Spam Valley as I told you did you know why they called it Spam Valley? because they were saving they were eating Spam so they could pay their mortgage so so that's what they called it and so I said fuck it, get a go I mean never thinking I was going to be caught never not one second so me and Mick's brother we were designated to take the guns balaclavers, handcuffs down to Torquay so we jumped in he came to meet me, we had the two bags we jumped in a private taxi and he says don't go to Central's we were in the train so we went to Motherwell we were going through Strathclyde Park and before you know it, the fucking police it's a motor outrider, he's waving the fucking taxi down and I says to my pal I went fuck it hell he says with me down here I said we're getting a knack already but the guy just went like the taxi driver slowed down mate you're going too fast so we got to Motherwell we got to London we were walking about in Houston Station the guns were not at the police or other place and I think we jumped to 20 Exeter and Mick and the other boys met us they had stolen cars and that and Torquay had a hired car and the full side so they took his bags he says look we're basing we're selling a caravan site we're basing a caravan site painting there's painting in Torquay there's three main places there's painting in Torquay in Brixam Brixam is a fishing village so we're basing there and I ended up I ended up getting sheilded in and we moved to the seaside thingy she came down with a wane and our plan was sheela used to be married to an Iranian our plan was to go down to London once I thought it was like my million pound we were going to go down to London she was going to get into a bank safety deposit box speak Iranian she stayed with her for six years put the money in up to Glasgow then off that was the sort of a plan and Mick while he was on the run he met these two lassies he met this lassie sorry in London her name was Sandrine Baby and she had a sister called Natalie Baby they came from Montpellier in France so Mick says after a few days when we were down there I went I'm going to get a thing with that lassie from France earlier to blend in his tourists I went for fuck's sake he says when it's early I said it's early just like I'm for a holiday and she phoned Mick she's going to bring my sister Sandrine I think it was and he was like hi so she came down and there was another boy Tom Carrigan and Tom Harper there and we were going to put we were going to put the pub and all that but while we were there we were reconnising the bank and at that time in 91 they never had alarms and in the bank they were just alarming the vault and this was our holding centre for the Nat West they were full of devin so they reckoned there was 6 million pound there so our plan was to break in here hold them up take the money and go you know what I mean so for that two weeks we were just acting as normal tourists for I went to the zoo with the wane and fucking the missies and we went to this sports centre so we came around there and we tried to play badminton and play it years later I became an internationalist in the fucking nightmare you know what I mean and so it came to Dede but two days before it I'd been out in the car with Tom Carrigan and Robert Harper and we'd get poked with the coppers through the fucking windy coppers and I gave my brother Gary's name so we'd get back with old Mick, James and that and Tam and Rob went we've got a bad feeling about this he says we're getting off I went for a fucks at your candy so these two boys got off and left us to get through with the robbery so they were away in the robbery the back door was drilled to get in the back door and there was a inside at the back of the bank it was a big bank there was three flares and in the back of the bank there was a a holding centre and a staircase and you could see the vault so there was a at the boat in the staircase there was a hidey hole constructed where you could fit inside it you know what I mean but I was doing there the first night at the pool table and contrary to contradictions I would like to put this straight a lot of people were saying you were in the bank blah blah blah but I'll tell you now that anybody is listening I was in the bank when the bank got raided when Mick came up to the pub he says I'll make it easy for you he says if you agree he says I can trust you 100% he says I know you're getting the bank they bother he says but will you sit outside in the car cos I'll know you'll know go away so you want me to sit in the car I went hi I was shocked at that I was quite willing to get in the bank it's an easier job so I would have went anyway but other people have been saying that I was in the bank but to put it straight to yourself James I was in the bank first night when it broke in there was no alarms in the bank there was upstairs the pool tables for the bank there was about 18 staff in there they used to go up there for lunch break so we were playing pool and all that and the hidey hole got constructed and the they were bringing me dustpan they were fucking dumping that away so once that was done I went back I went to the bank and I went back to the caravan site where my Mrs was and the truth French lassies they don't know what's happening Mick names is weird about something so I went back and I was to go back to the bank about half seven outside it was just after eight or seven and funny enough I was watching the TV in the caravan guess what I was watching in the Sweeney so I'm lying here saying I'm gone she's got a fucking million she's got a fucking million she's got a fucking million because when you do things like that you don't expect to get caught you can't get in that frame they two boys that have left they've got fear and I'm off I'll tell you there was a good story about they two what happened after it but they done know it they just didn't fucking say we were away so is this eight o'clock at night this is eight o'clock eight o'clock, half eight in the morning and they're in the bank they were into the hidey hole were they playing pool or not in the bank? they were playing pool upstairs and all that why were they ready to rob at the next day? I was freaking unbelievable so they went and put on the hidey hole so the first plan was if the other boy wouldn't have fucked off when the door the first person that came in there was a system a rotor where when he was in the next person in the bank had turned up pressed the bell, he'd open the door and bring him in so everything changed because the other two boys went away carrying in the harbour the plan was then just letting them all come in then jump out and gather them up cos they were going to the door the first person came in and just pulled them in so at the end of the day there were about 16 people tied up gun pointed at them and all that right now what they'd done is see for the hidey hole they saw the thingy opening the the vault in the commut virtualy so the boys jumped to it right in but this bank vault and yet then there was another gate and that took you up to the treasury and all the cash was sitting there and they ran back out and like where's the fucking money where's the key for this so the manager I think his name was Brian something he was trying to say look listen see the guy that's got the key Roy the chief cashier he's late for his work so we're only having all that past the parcel so a shotgun get fired and it's always been says in the newspapers and all that stories came up that there was a woman shot in the heath that's what I heard there's a wee bit true to that but the shotgun was fired into ceiling as a warning don't fuck me about the plaster came down, hurt this young lass in the heath and we're all screaming she's been shot that's the honest truth they've died years later James I'll tell you actually the Turkey Herald when the Hing came up with the bomb and the slashing with me they'd heard they were doing there and through a journalist going to touch Karine talk about the bank and they'd be willing to apologize to the lassie and put them all through and done that story but anyway what happened was the boys thought that the manager declared the sale and he'd get ran in the fucking bars shotgun put his heath opened that fucking vault and he's shouting a canny a canny of no key so guns went down and by that time the doorbell was ringing it was Roy the chief cashier and the manager was trying to say look let me go to the door I'll open the fucking door and that's that but see we went to court it was like a comedy most of the staff was saying she caused your fric accents they were saying it was Jamaicans they were saying it was Italian Jamaicans this and that so the boys just ran out and the car away so we went back to the car and I said so how did you know open the door to let them in if that was the guy with the keys to the vault we didn't believe him it was him as well and he said 6 million did you see the 6 million? you could see the 6 million through the bars it was in the nest of the vault and that's what the guy kept saying that's guy Brian the manager look that will be Roy the chief he'll have this key but this time just what I need but so the boys ran out into the car I think Mickey made his in way so we went back to the caravan site and I went in and my mrs lamp where's the money I went she went fuck so Mickey back we were all gutted to come into my caravan and I went look he says I'll need your link to these two French Lasses and tell them look use me to leave I'll get them if I can train and whatever he says listen if we go to tell you we'd access stuff cause the other two boys went away we'd access stuff that had to be done away and Mickey says they'd done that but it hadn't been done so Minnie's brother says we'll get rid of it so Sheila kept saying you better get to fuck this see cause we never get the money James I was sitting in Blasey saying don't get the money it's not going to be a big enquiry but there's been a fucking gunfire and fuck knows what it's been broken or planned or the rest of it so it's still serious it's just to say where are you getting the money on the line I had that attitude let's go and I'm going mate a breakfast and all that right instead of just fucking off to London and that right away we were going to go to the tickets to get on the train so me and James we went up to his caravan got the two bags but little did we know that seeing they'd come out in the bank they saw them jumping into the car and we took the plate and we swapped into another car and this guy he was a painter and decorator and he gave the registration number but it wasn't the right one and he had to compose the number and they go to it and it was a car at McKeely it rented it and a false name and it was thing we'd do at the caravan site so two coppers arrived at the caravan site when me and James they were just taking these two bags there was three big pawns it was massive as a site we said we'll just go and ditch them there and get them back so as me and James walked down to the site down to this point he says to me I think we were getting foleyed I said nah, don't be silly so we go to this point opened the two zips of the old house to throw the stuff in I mean there were screwdrivers and all that jowls, there was excess hodd cuffs and all that flares and all that six minutes something just sucked out of bushes and all that right, get down the fucking deck my whole world was just fucking way like that I went who the fucks he? it was a guy, he was about six feet four he had a leather jacket he was hodding to me looked like a 45 or a magnum and I says to James I says look I says don't fucking move us can't he'll shoot us right so see when we're lying down there he's come down James to put the cuffline on top of us two together so he was a big cancel he opened the bags, he's bringing me the bags put me in his shooters and he heard the gun he says right, he used to get up to caravan he came for you so we were going up to caravan we came for you and he went like that and he went into that one he'd been in the observaries observing us only for about half an hour how unlucky was that, I mean so I caught up on an hour and he was just bumped into me but what happened is that they'd went to the site see after the bank robbery and all that about an hour later they'd been to the site because this motor the hired car we had know what I'm in under a different name that was the thing we'd booked into the site and they came to the site and he says to the site manager is there any dodgy characters blah blah blah blah he says there was a group of people here from Glasgow one got a scar this was the other boy carrying blah blah blah blah so they set up thing me but they couldn't see when they saw us walking they couldn't see their their radios their radios because we weren't working so one of them says I'll follow them, you're going to get back up so the time this guy arrested us he said we're walking up and we're going fuck make sure we're going to do that stuff so he put us into this caravan where they'd been so instead of the guy he went into the caravan he said he got on his weird cuffed and he says right shot out of the curtains and instead he come then sitting in we asked right this all happened quick he stood outside and I'm sitting and I'm going like that fucking can't believe this we're going to get me 18 fucking here for this so I'm sitting next to him and my cuff just came up and I went fuck this there was people walking by and we could look out we would open the curtain of me but we could see he's going with the bags and he's leather he's gone and he's broke it but people were going like that maybe he didn't stand there and he's like get away get away on the police and all of that right and he was turning his back and I says to my pal the next time he turns his back I says I'm going to this living room right along the hall and at that back one day he went you'll get shot I says I don't get a fuck but this time I'd only done 18 month so I'm saying which was your biggest sentence this was going to be fucking 18 year 20 year so that's what I'd done I says you come and he went oh I don't know I don't know I says well I'm going so anyway I get out of the window the whole fucking caravan was shaked my pal was still on his after it but the copper's back was turned he was talking to somebody so we never saw all of this and I'd get the cuff off I ran up to my caravan she was there with the wane I says I've just escaped blah blah blah blah blah I had a tracksuit Jacob on to her but another one on I says look you make your way down to Linden and I'll get you in there I says I need to get to fuck but I didn't know where I was going so I ran down to the painting with the beach on the beach front and I'm storming with a pound on I was going I shouldn't be having a million pound here instead of a pound and and I went where the fuck am I going to go for you here so it's a big fucking ask innit with a nicker on you and the poles are all going to come swoop them shortly so I've crawled up to this and banked me in this railway before he noticed a helicopter up and my missus she was telling us after it she was going with the pram and she saw James Sealy in the car he never looked at her and what I mean and she made her way to the train station went down to Fingwe to Oosten went down to Elephant Castle we'd relatives down there through my brother's way so I made my way to this Brick Sam fishing village crawling and fuck knows what I went on the phone a couple of good pals told them what happened they says right listen they says we're going to go on to the phone come back doing this he says I've made money to record that and I went on the phone he says look somebody's going to be doing it at 12 o'clock they're coming for London can you hang on innit this was fucking 2 in the afternoon so I just went and sat fucking in this woodland wasn't just lying about there so I've creeped out to wear my cloak and I see this boy there and he's sweating like fuck I wouldn't say his name and he's like that and I've jumped in and he's like that fucking hell he says what happened there so I go ask so it went back to his house he stayed in Kensington and we're sitting there and we're having a couple of joints it was about five in the morning and at this time he went like that he says look I'm fucked he says if you're fucked go on up he's going up to that room he says just sleep up there he says no see in the morning he says I'm going to stay here and just put another couple of joints so a couple of hours later I'm fucking getting shaped a bit and I thought it was his pals playing a fucking thing and we wind up no I mean they're going up drug squad he went who are you now and I went I'm Gary McDonald my brother's name and I've ended up saying he says what are you doing here I'm just in here looking for work I went to school with the boy he's put me up and they went have you ever been in trouble Gary and I went I've been here for slashing the guys through it so they say oh typical fucking gobbles that's what they all think down there everybody's all chimmen for the gobbles and that so I gave his date a buff and all that and they were more interested in him cos I think this boy I think he was dealing drugs down there so why were you in his house his doors went in for drugs for eating the morning he was under observation getting a fucking thing meeting these turks in the west end and all that but I didn't know this and he didn't know he says his house had never been fucking turned to her before on that one so I heard them outside I'm in the room I heard them outside the room go oh no they didn't hear him they were like that it was his name and he played it right he went I'm no fucking telling you his name kicking in my fucking door and all that so I'd say Gary McDonald my brother's name and it worked out fine because if he'd have says a name you're fucked so he played it right he just says no get to fuck now and that so they took him away to him and said in the real art he meant the real art he says look we've just decided he says I'm just gonna let you go blah blah blah blah and I went like that fuck I never stood with that hunk on me so he's went away I haven't done this to her and his wife's there she's seven month pregnant and I says to her I went I says for fuck's sake I says long views been here she says we've just been here 18 months no been a pause I says and I I says I'm the robbery and all the rest of it so I says to her I says I says how'd you get to the Elephant Castle she says I'll show you and she says there's a hundred pound which was good to her I say and she took me to one of the stations so I got off at the Elephant Castle it's a big roundabout I always remember it was in the jail years later there was a boy there was a pub Charlie Chaplin he used to say hi Charlie Chaplin he says hi how'd you get there and I was to turn him so I met this guy there one of his relatives my brother's he took me up with his high flats the Elephant Castle and my Mrs was there and the guy says look you want to stay here for a week and I says no I says I need to go up the road I've got unfinished business meaning I've got enemies so is that because you knew you were going to get a heavy sentence aye aye then I was just fucking nuts in it for you know what I mean had a lot of trouble you know what I mean had been done with a lot of shootings and all that and different things you know what I mean been on the land in Berlin and that unfortunately I got away with it it was just the wee ones that was getting done with a couple of robbery things came up but nothing came of them but so getting up on that train journey with me the Mrs and the boy he was only two at the time was one of the saddest freaking journeys getting up there because I knew I was next because eventually got me see when I went out the car of one my prints were there so the goats for that and other things so I got off at Motherwell again made a couple of pals took me back to his home gave me that, gave us a revolver with six dumb dumb bullets for maximum impact and for five weeks I was running about the town and I was going to shoot guns ah but it's the truth I was just going to first roll them, I'd have just shot them in the street but unfortunately that never happened so five weeks after that I hadn't saw the Mrs and the police were in a raid in my masseuse and this is me in 91 and they were kidnapped it was a drugs offence for Alan but what they'd done is they finned me to bug the phone and I was on the phone to Sheila she'd moved to Bishop Briggs and into my masseuse to stay so I was still in Bishop Briggs and but she'd just moved in there to stay and I'd phoned and I said right on meeting so we arranged to meet at the Po San Chinese restaurant so I went down there first it was a Tuesday I was a member it was a Tuesday night and I've got the gun in my pocket and all that I was sitting there and she came in the first thing I said to her I said have you been foleyed she went don't be silly I went I didn't need bother two minutes later a couple came walking in sat at the next table and I went under cover coppers she went oh there you're starting this paranoia again you're starting this I'm going to leave I went what the fuck did you expect me to do I'm fucking on the run I'm going to get about 20 fucking year I just knew these two were coppers right but there were six guys sitting there James right and they were going oh well done you're driving license and all that they were six coppers I know but I must I must give you can praise to the police that night instead he's just lifting me they left me there for three years so I went like that if I go to the back door I go to the front door I say I know they're out there I just knew so they left us for three years and they get told Mick Healy was coming in and I just fucking started drinking free course dinner the last supper you know what I mean and at 11 o'clock I could see all these people coming in for take-aways at this post signing out for a Tuesday night it was busy but it was all the it was called the Scottish Crime Squad then it's a serious crime squad now but the Scottish Crime Squad they were made up to police officers for you Aberdeen and Dien all of that coming in and it was all them coming in to have a look so they made a move and she was real hard to look at all these guys and that coming into this restaurant and I've turned around some fucking 15 people rushing in and I've put my one in my pocket to get the gun I didn't even know who they were the lovely couple I called them they too were the first guns that jumped right into opies you know what I mean and the six guys they've ran here they've got Herbdon, they've got me the other people that came in they must have moved 20 of them they had me up in the air and I'm going blue I'm going for fuck's sake this isn't anything for this he's got a gun a thing we don't have to the bullets and I'm going blue and we trying these guys if it wasn't this serious it wouldn't be laughable but it is now he can run in the air like that while you warm up there and he's gone who's paying this bill and at this the Scottish Crime Squad they kind of relaxed my gun nudges away like that so it was one of the momentous moments in my criminal career one of the saddest me put in the circle of the Scottish Crime Squad and the thing we the saddest took away in handcuffs Are you glad now that you never killed anybody? I, without a doubt I, without a doubt and then when you wait to co-op so what happened then is I get took down to London Road Police Station and they were like to me they say Zine, they say we were on a thing we were on a mission to come in they says we were just a restrate in the hands you do in England they says now you've been done with this gun and you're going to Berlin and I went on for fuck's sake I'd always been in trouble not in there James had been in there in 84, 85 and I'd been done with assaulting prison officers and I'd wanted the worst dunes in my life it was called the Ham Wars in 84, 85 in Berlin you had dining halls there's no dining halls now you just eat your dinners and your meals in your cell but they had dining halls in the teapots and all that so this Saturday used to always bind up at 5 o'clock Saturday Sunday Berlin and the Ham was half this Ham was half raw and everybody went we went to replacement excuses you can fuck all and everybody whispered about we're looking back to the whole so next minute they came right out to my table cos there was a boy sitting next to me he was doing for a period for visits and they were like this other boy Ted Cuddie they went right move and he says don't move Ted was doing four years I was only doing 12 months and the next minute they've grabbed them I've just jumped up on him and he'd do a teapot and my other pal sat on him on my chair and the whole dining hall just everybody ran to the front ran to the back just thrown chairs and all that where you mean my pal are standing hunting his cunts with chairs and all that the prison officers and at that time there was a prison governor called Slasher Gallicur and this Slasher Gallicur he was mental the prison officers were feeding him the prisoners he took a shot he slashed a guy and all that right Johnny says all that and so the screws never done that and we're going back to the hall and they were going like that McDonald thing with this other guy so I was dumped up with this guy I'm only doing 12 months they've got a couple of months to go he's doing life, there's not the rest they never they never went ahead he says we were going to go ahead we just done it so I was in the third flat and with this boy he says you're going to get something so they looked down the whole prison at 5 in Yorkshire and I could hear them my door opened and I went right out to the other guy and fucking they shut the door and I've got a blade and I went fuck it because you can get wee blades and fucking put them on the toothbrushes I was just going to do that in there right and fucking I had a blade and I was stoning on this bed I said come in here I'm going to slash one so I was going to get to doing or slash a gaelic and he used to always have this drill bit hat and along coat he looked at me and he said figure he went get on and I went fuck it it's no more fit to slash somebody so but two months to go so they just grabbed me and for the third landing to the second to the first to the bottom there was a gun like a prison officers and they were all instructed to punch and kick I was punching the ball this was for this instant in the dining hall where we took the first officers eye for right so I get to a link to fucking this thing the wendy who's wasn't there at the time this was the segregation you used to get to a link it was he how putting the boat in flat and I was some face man I was some knick I was luckily running my bones were broken he was an elephant man doctor came on as usual oh he fell down the stairs so the police came and they charged me with two assaults and my ma was to come up a couple of days later because I was that bad and they kicked me away from all the prisoners and they would take me out in the exercise when nobody was about and I was waiting for a visit from my ma and they went and said to my ma the doctor couldn't I didn't like the visit because the state I was in did the screws ever get done Ian for batten people back in the day or did they ever get done no really that was that I've had a couple of dunes in Berlin right that was the worst one I ended up being 6-1 for that but going back to the Chinese restaurant instant I'm doing the winding road says you're going to Glasgow Sheriff for the gun you're not going to Turkey so I went fuck so I'm in the Berlin reception at 4 and they took me out of the hall for 5 and you get dubbed up for 5-6 and I'm in Seahall and I'm in the cell on my cell and I'm walking up and down and I'm going fucking hell this is I'm going to get fucking 15 years for this bank 5 years for the gun I'm going to lose my fucking messies the fuck shit out of the house Seem you're in it at that time annoying do you have regret as well because when you do that it has a ripple effect doesn't it it's not just you let us say grown up we think it's cool not involved in the bad shit but it has a ripple effect on one man's on one family's own everybody else the family suffer as well James you're saying a good point there see the family, see your sister your ma, your brothers and all that especially your wife, your ma they're doing the sentence with you so it's no fair for a lass to wait for 10 years my missy's waited 5 years right but wait and I'll tell you what happened to Balini after the restaurant I'd just been fucking strangled and all that in the restaurant so I go to Balini they took me out of the whole seahall and I'm walking up and doing to sex and I say to myself well it was piss plots at the time there was no toilets, no what I mean it's like a toilet with your piss plot you're just a radio so I says I'll go line see a couple of the troops I was that down I went I've only done 18 months I'm going to win here for a good while, no what I mean so the door opened and the hall was all eerily silent and I went to get the door and these two screws went no you get in strip search I went strip search, I says I've mean but I'm longer off to plank nothing so they're well at that get your shirt off, I've got the jail gear on I'm taking the shirt off and I'm going this is no right no what I mean we're looking at it and I could see them as if to see who's going to punch them first so I got my shirt and it was trapped and one of them was at the hookers so I've fucking steamed into them another six of them ran in it was all planned it was all controlled they got me down on my knees hid my head back you know what this is for don't you payback for that right and because of the Berlin right my pals had been up in the roof when the right was and my pals were up in the roof at the time nearly barri Albert Moffat and my pals Samuel Ralson caused that it was one of the worst rights that had ever happened they were up there five days and they took hostages and all that and they were up there banging the fucking shields and wearing all their uniforms so I decided to get in one day I think it was January 86 the right happened and I'd been in the pub the night before and I went back here and I had this big white sheet and I put Paulie showing it and I went slasher gal or a killer is an animal I said I should know I'm a victim and I went to Berlin the next day first day of the riot and I pulled it up and I took in all the reporters I said I've been a victim I said this has been caused because the system in there they're just getting fucked right about and people are getting duns and all the rest there you know what I mean so that's what happened then but in Berlin then and going back to 91 they put his fuck out of me in that sale so the day these grips the day these grips on you he's controlled and restrained and just learned to bring them in the early 80s to tell you the truth James see if you get a ddwn it wasn't too bad see these grips and the prison will tell you there's almost supposed to be one screw they pull you through them to it and it's fucking sore and they try and get you to scream so everybody can hear oh listen I'm screaming so will you come to the postal park and I'll never forget this and I'll put it in the book I'll always be for him for what you've done not one prison route to 300 seas then they heard me getting took down fucking for me and the screws shout getting back to fuck leave him alone so they took me down to this sale and they put me in the turkey and they threw all my clays I put them into a padded sale and there was a fucking paddy thing and I was to put it on and I said I'm no fucking wearing that and I was sitting there just to talk other than bruises so I heard them getting up to this other door and they went into this guy and this guy sitting there and he's bumped dead and he went to the guy oh are you the fucking hard man at buying the door eh what are you talking about gave him my treatment so the next morning this screw came in and he went like that he was a screw for the Berlin Andy Murray he's a country proven mole he went how are you he says how am I, you know how I'm fucking a he says no listen he says come on and lie for a shower he says I'm no wearing that gown he says no I've got your stuff I'm lying in the shower I don't know what's happening or that he says look I've got bad news for you I says look you can't get any more bad news from me I says I've got a bank, a gun fucking everything you got for I'm fucking feeling sorry I've lost my way everything in the pub and he went no he says in the soap he can't have my exact quick I says isn't what bad news is that he says well see my shift you're going to come in at lunch time we used to get banged up for the 12-21 and you're going to Barrier County now so I went who the fuck the fuck do you think these are I says a man here for recreational purposes he's just part of a fucking cricket he went I'm just letting you know he says I'm taking the party and he says when you see the governor this morning tell him you want to go this time the windows was in 9-1-2 and you want to go to the windows segregation he says what do I want to say that for he says well see if you're getting a fucking down I says wait a minute what am I on report for he says they met Bargery last night he says that you try to attack them first I went I need bother so I ended up going into this window my mrs came up to see my brother they saw the bruises this is what happened to you I was strangled in the Chinese restaurant Bargery in Berlin I said I'm going to slash one of these cans it was her first time ever coming to a prison and Bargery's like I fucking date right but I was thinking I fuck he says there's no day to me for nothing but I would have every bone in my fucking body broken if I did date did ever kill anybody in the screws did ever kill anybody doing it in England and all that there's been rumours that they've took them into segregation blocks and they've hung them up and one would scrub sign and he'd go like a suicide no I'm in because that's extreme nobody was that bad when I was in in the 80s it was really bad the screws were animals when you up for the gun in Glasgow what did you get I was in the window house for the five weeks and I'd seized so Sheila had seized to me at the visit it was only a day I'm going to do the bruises and all that and she says please go on a no day night and she says we mean the wee rain we'll look after you for ten year so I went right okay then I'll make a promise I'll no day night I'll keep my move shut so get back to this Wendy house and I walked up and done myself and I went did she just say I was going to be in for fucking ten year there so it was starting to dawn on me and then they started playing tricks on me and I've got a chapter in the book called the chewing gum gang this mob for cumber nolds I don't know how I called them I called them I had a gel tear in my head a gel tear, chewing gum, swaggering the boot foot of the deep so they came in to me one day and they were like I was an escapeeer I used to put your stuff out a quarter pass, four on a chair you know what I mean your clothes you wear pyjamas so they came in all three one day and they were like fuck off see what's her that was they went hi social club you'll be drinking the night and you won't funny I said no I said there's part key there there's wee boys at five and six I wait to see Celtic playing and you tell me to put my pyjamas on at half three fuck off so they went laughing so they were trying to noise me up and string me so they could give me another good doing but I hadn't made this promise so what happened was another week after that told you my clays went out each night for three days James I noticed when I pelt my chair in my trousers and jumped on the prison issue stuff it was wet so I said well wait a minute the shower the shower's 60 metres of lying there I said there's no hole in the fucking roof I said I know that so I said right I'm no having us so they came to the door and they were like I said listen I said last three mornings I've been bringing my stuff and it's been wet and they said it must be the cats seeing Bellini they had cats it went oh a bit Bellini it was these gates could have come into the windows I know what I said I went to the door and they went no no these cats used fucking dogs and slammed the door and they went away giggling again pushing on your stuff so I went to Edinburgh High Court after that after five weeks and I got two and a half years for the gun she was lucky you know what I mean and I came back and she took me out of the window house and I put on a beehull and I got shouted down after a day and this principal officer pew at another screw he says we heard that you're going to not fuck out of one of your officers it's a revenge attack I don't know if somebody told him that but I don't know how he says I don't know me and this peo he says I'll tell you one thing he says see if any of my fucking officers get hurt he says you'll be going to that fucking royal family in every bone in your fucking body you'll be broke and they meant it so I had to keep my move shut five weeks and I took you down to England for an ID parade for this bank put me into Dartmoor for a couple of days came back up then in September 1991 straight down to England and they took me to Edinburgh and there was six police for Devon and Cornwell police we were all gunned up now of that and they put me in a motor 100 mile an hour or they were doing the fucking thingy a torquey but they sloped it Plymouth for a break there was two cars in them and I got the ID and they put me to bring me Bristol and one of my co-accused was in there Michael Carroll and I was in there for the Friday to the Monday and I was going to court in the mixes all week to see when you go to court on Monday I says what do you mean he says there's going to be two Range Rovers Motorcycles, the Helicopter I says what for a wee guy for me if he's being burned he says week to see that so I thought I was coming back here Monday morning sure I have two Range Rovers Guns, Helicopter Motorcycle Outriders Week to Torque Martsman in the Roof it's a bit overkill for me so a community there had been charging all that had been getting my depositions your charging and all that so I thought I was going back to Bristol so they took me back to this place and I didn't know any of the jails in there really except we came and Risley had been in when I was a boy and they took me to a top security prison called Longlatham and it's fairly mild for Birmingham near Avesham, Boostershire and they go to reception and they he says to me where I am I told him I don't want to be here he went oh I, you all want to be here he says this is a Cushion Act you know what I mean and then he says you're going to the gangster wing and I thought about that and I went to this wing it was all top guys feeling in and it turned out a good place but I shouldn't have been there in two and a half years but they thought my coaches was going to try and break me out so they took me a thing at this Longlatham and it was in there and everybody got rounded up there was other people still in the run Tam Carrigan and the Rob Harper two boys I told you left they went up to Norfolk where Tam used to stay and they rented a farmhouse they broke into a gunshot they reversed the jeep into it and they stole magnums and they pumped action shotguns and they had them hidden underneath the farmhouse and they went and done free banks through flare guns so they got 17 years for that for free banks for free banks I think they got about 150 grand 50 banks? yeah I think this was a wee bank and they still charged them with the bank at Torquay so we all went to trial I was in Ffamay June 91 and the first trial came up in Bristol October 82 so we had to do it it was a good while I mean well over a year 16 months so we all went to court at Bristol and it was a carry on there the 60s were all there together and we were running them off they couldn't deal with us the prison officers they couldn't they found me because we were just running them off I went to court one day and I came back and he says you're on report oh you're fucking shouting I've used six screws trying to spit on them and all of that they were trying to mess us a bit so we ended up three juries it would take a long time we ended up three juries just got offered a deal or nothing? no there was no deal just knew how we were going to get yous so Bristol we were trying to get a gun smuggled into court and we'd found a thing a bit we could get it in in the court it was in an old court in Bristol and the plan was in motion then we went to court the next day and the next one it was fucking all these security barriers blah blah blah blah and there was all these meetings with the lawyers and the QC's and judges and they wouldn't say that any of us and one of the QC's out of the six he was bringing me a representative he was to get into chambers the QC procurators the QC procurators and the judge to be told what was going on then he came out under an oath that he wasn't to reveal the five other thing there QC's or anybody Wickett sees in that room but Wickett sees in that room was that we had a plan in motion to get a gun in and we were going to have an effect on escape batter of the prison officers before we left induced hijack motors in Bristol and got off and that was the truth but the gun hadn't been there yet you know what I mean? How did they know? Again? We were going to escape you know what I mean and they told even in the Scottish Crime Squad up here told even in Somerset Police I think I had a bit of paper I showed you it says in the eventually we got these documents it says if this gun was in the hands of the defendants and they would have effected on us to escape everybody's life would have been in danger and they says if they find out who the person was responsible for for grasning us we would be dead within a week you know what I mean? So the judge went like look I'm having name error of this and he says I'm abandoning this trial and he's gone to the old Bailey So this was 16 months we'd already been in so went back to Bristol and the screws were like that so it was hard to use where they that's the trial thing we hated us in there so the next day we were supposed to have a meeting and all of that and they wouldn't have it and three screws get battered one fractured it another one got his ear broke another one came I don't know what happened three or four screws injured and we all get transferred out to different prisons then they had a a trial in 1993 we had to wait another when was that October 1992 we had to wait another 10 months for another trial and it was at the old Bailey so they all took us down to Bellmarsh and we get warned we get to security unit inside Bellmarsh a prison within a prison this is any many of your carry-ons what you have done at Bristol and all that this is you being kept here in the trial you've been done your absences you'll just get splat about different jails and so we went to Co-op that trial lasted five weeks and the jury went out for two days we went oh fuck me we're getting it we're getting it again but the jury only went out to get to go to a fancy hotel and have a good dinner know what I mean and they came in gouty gouty gouty and they sentenced me to 16 years for the Robbery Conspiracy Rob, six months for the escape for the caravan and they gave the other three boys 16 years 18 years Mick Healy he had 19 years had he done 2012 so he was then 31 years but the judge says I don't know if I can be within my right to be this consecutive so I come out with Mick Hancroft and I say fuck you're doing longer than the drain robbers you got me done money and all that so we were all back in Belmarsh High Security the next day and me and Mick were walking about the exercise you had gone when the fucks is black tunnel going to end know what I mean what did you think when you go up and he says right bang gouty 18 years Ian McDonald how did you feel didn't realise that I thought I was going to get 10 years or something and I'm no ashamed to say that I was in Belmarsh at night I think I shed a few tears I think it was that loud he could hear me up and go he's got a green for London did you think that's when you realised what the fuck far down with my life so many questions you asked yourself see the time James I couldn't be a hypocrite cos I played for high steaks and we lost we would have got that money but I was sent to myself inwardly I was sent to myself how the fuck am I going to get through this you know what I mean and the missus is she would stick by for five years so we all get dispersed to different jails and all of that I went to a jail full sitting you know what I mean and one of the other boys went there as well was in there for three years and I met Ronny Assilvan in there he came that's the snooker player and he came and everybody was all talking to me and we were just sitting and we were sitting and he came up chapter door and he says I'll come up and I'll put you on the phone to my ma and he walked to the door and by the way she said I bet her accent you used to and she's stayed in Hackney for 50 years and I says I so he did come up when he was on the phone and he said I'll put you on the phone to my ma and he walked to the door and I said I'll put you on the phone so he did come up when he was on the phone he shouted me ear he went he has the right to talk to you and she went I went like how you doing Mr Assilvan she went how you doing son and I said was better than me and Ronny strung that smile and urn so we became great pals and some stories and his boy used to come and his boy was on my sex he used to come up and when Ronny'd just get the jail in 92 he'd won the UK Open at 16 and he'd come up to the jail Ronny used to take young Ronny run all the clubs when he was 10 he was beating people at 31 so he kind of a thing with his career I mean he missed out on that and again that's the life of the violence the crime and the missing these things that Ronny was stitched up at a private members club and he's two black guys where she'd get a woman and he's just went urn he says leave it out with him he says who the fuck you talking to bang and two of them were stabbed one died and Ronny was only 37 he was a good businessman he was a writer she's stories you know what I mean he stayed in Hackney then you've moved to stay in Essex and I used to say to him he was a writer but his boy he's done fantastic you know what I mean was he crazy writing down there well Charlie Cray he ended up a couple of years later I was in another place called Longlatton and Charlie Cray got 12 years and he ended up next door to me and the guy I started to talk my way to him and all that he was 72 and he got 12 years you could see was he going to do that he was too old in that he was speaking to him and I said to him I said because when I was younger I used to hear the stories after Thompson was connected to the Cray so I said to Charlie Cray he was sitting in a cup of tea and I said to him I said after Thompson I said did you know him I said I mean this one's doing well he said he'd come down there about a work for the twins and I said they would come up to Glasgow and he says to me he says he was at the end of his sentence by this time he was a poor old guy the home secretary was releasing him because he had about four weeks to live so the jail was buzzing so you know Reggie Cray is coming to the jail you know what I mean this is a top security enactress Franklin I said Longlatton and Eddie Richardson he was a Pallymines in there he was lying there they're landing so Reggie Cray came and Charlie brought him into my cell introduced me and I shook his own in it he says glad to meet you know that and he says yes we met her for know that but he never went into details about the done in it and he and I says to Reggie Cray I says I mean you've got something in common and he looked at me and he went I said no I've read a few of your books I said you were a mami's boy I said so am I and he laughed at that and he laughed at that and he says I but they were as well weren't they they were mami's boy and he says to me he says I says all my friends well he's bowing at that he says he used to come around to his master's and his name was Violet he says he'd all come up and say she's 17 what were they treated like in the jail were they all worried about you I everybody thought it was a bit of liberty that they were doing 30 years recommendation where it was two fellow crooks that they'd killed they were getting made an example of you because before they go to the jail they were running clubs they knew all the celebrities they were coming to celebrities so they made an example how did you handle your sentence then when you go to how did I handle it to tell the truth the first five years I struggled so I did the first five years I said how would they like to do five years went for 18 months I just couldn't I just couldn't handle it James what the big problem was I can't think they've been outside and boys after you see this is your life you know what I mean you've just got to concentrate on but I just keep thinking you're Friday certainly night your pals are out dancing at clubs and blah blah blah blah and my sister came up to see me after five and a half years and I said that's me settled mama I said fucking time I know I just got up in the morning I said I go to work go to gym I said we have wee parties and all that and I had some good times in there you were allowed cooking facilities in there you could it was different from here you had cookers and freezers and all that and at the canteen you could buy herbs, spices onions vegetables you could even buy steak mints all that so there was great cooks there and you were allowed a knife for the office you could go into the office so you could get a knife and you could cut chicken and all that and you had the Jamaican yardies and all that there and all that so I learned to cook and a boy of good parli mints he's needing a God bless him he's a good guy a boy from south London, Desi Cunningham it was reportedly a thing made reported that he'd stabbed Charlie Bronson he took me under his wing and he learnt me to cook and all that for scratch and I was getting right into it and I was writing wee notes so I started making dinners and all that and I was in the food boat and there were only 11 and then the other cook I chose that because you came about to celebrate yourself but you started the documentaries and then you started writing about it because you were in papers all the time when I first came out James my man had eventually done nine and a half years in England I went up to Shorts after ten years five months, five days five minutes five seconds I never went to any open prisons they say I was in the rehabilitation material whatever that meant so I only knew best crime but when I got out I had a wee surprise my man came up in the big limo he was with my family and all that and I was just on the car park putting my suit on and using this as my suit when I got to June 91 there was a crew wearing the stuff I had on it and I looked like somebody I looked like somebody from England so my man was a suit face later and all that and I was on the car park I bought a champagne and the dealer record was there there was a big story next day ten years stretch and he says I gave the vacate to this governor this governor walked by and went good luck in your freedom I said up yours so I go out on Thursday next day it was in the paper my wee man was like that he was a footy and she says oh I'll know my bingo on Saturday everybody says I'll be proud I'm not been in for raper I said I'll try to steal some money you know what I mean so I go out and in two days I was in Victoria's and then I made a list to cure Victoria's I got invited up one night after about a week and I just took it as my God giving right to go to it to pick up for after hours and I'd be sitting to 7, 8 in the morning but nobody was saying that and I was inviting everybody up and I remember one night DJ Vans used to be on Sunday night so we were used to going on Sunday night and all that these boys from Alton and Poso came up and they went you know my man they went couple of them were latsies and everybody was looking at me as if I owned it you know what I mean I broke my dance floor with two boats of lads DJ Vans he's playing superstar and they're taking records this was me just coming out and I said to myself I'm not getting involved in crime I'm taking a year off but saying a year off I feel bank robbers saying take a few but that's the way I felt because a couple of people says to me when I was out a couple of weeks and I went to crime and straight away you know a lot of people doing it in England and I said I want to enjoy myself so I came out still as if I was 30 so in Victoria's James Mortimer owned it and all that so I knew the Mortimer thing the daughters and that so they weren't saying that and one night I was on the flare of two boats of lads I was taking the keys to be the fucking buzzing you know what I mean and it's 40 years of age but I was still going to the arches at 50 I still think I was a young boy so so welcome to Blaisege earlier earlier it must have gone rocky and he would have felt like myself in Victoria's I thought it was the only place for me I used to see this big place in the sky and it's okay old street and I was just brave brave brave so I used to go up there three four times a week and I'd keep people after hours and one night I'm on the flare and I'm doing the usual fucking Budweiser fucking a DJ Vans and all that and fucking the bouncers came over and it's 83 in the winter season and it says Blin says we leave no coming up in the night you know it's piano bar I says are we going to take a fuck to yourself I says I've invited people up there so I went oh we're just letting you know and I went on and I've kicked the door and she said get to fuck and we're like who's all that she says that a serious crime school is your drink mate and they've all looked at me like that and I've went to the bar and the guy came over to me and I went you know your rangers then and I went I went have another look I turned around and it was like Gordon Dale he was the manager where you're at it so they all got up and left and I so they all got up and left and this continued for about seven, eight months me got to Vickies and they virtually just fucking taken the other place not I mean they've just seen that and so I'm out and I'm just ringing and at the same time I was hearing I'm going to get done in and I'm coming out and I'm going to do this but I never stood in anybody's toes you know what I mean told Specky Boyd not the security companies and other people but I just came out just wanting a good time you know what I mean and there was one instance where I was only three or four months and I was in Barsini and Renfield Street and I got a telephone call from Mama and she says to his I don't know if you've been up here and all that she says I've been greeting and all that she says watch when you open your door and she says what you want to do and she says tell him to better come and see us it's important and Mama phoned this and I says to my pals in Barsini I says what had happened and I phoned I went up at Baird Street she says what had you seen me and I went I I says I'm going to fucking dance tonight I says I'm coming up she says you mean oh yeah I says no you don't she says I would do so she says to my pals look I don't want Mama to get in the hassle at the door I went up to Baird Street and she says to the taxi driver I gave my turn and there was four curders she says 10 minutes to drive away and she says I've got one of the Oswans to enjoy their life so I says I'm not causing anybody we've got good intelligence so I says are you free to go I says I've got a taxi out there so I walked to him and he said he says on the phone you didn't know where you are and the other one went Barsini and I went fucks you and another one we're like enjoy Victoria's tonight and I'm walking away then another one shouted and don't be staying in to seven in the morning so they do everything about me but I was there causing trouble but it came me ahead I got pulled with my social worker who turned to a little bastard he was only 32 and I was 40 and he tried to run my life and he would say you have to do this and do that so anyways he was a little cunt and he turned to a little cunt I mean I can say that he's worse and I hope you put this in the Hogan's programme I'll tell you his fucking name if you want to know but he might try and fucking sue he's fucking true so this weekend James Ryan he's trying to be all nice at first and all of that the social workovers at the time in 2001 there was Gordon Street and it was at Norfolk Street so I didn't see him so I said after a couple of months I went to my detailing where I was steaming my man at so I said like I like to rent a a house up in Bishop Briggs with tall roads was I detached I still had some money so I wanted to turn this into a rave through my vikies I was into my rave then right he must have been fucking right he had a great time he was the best years of my life and he'd bring me in at me 40 cos I was just reliving her and everybody said I'm doing nothing I'm enjoying this so I said to this thing my social worker and I was all happy and I said I'll meet you up at this address and I'm talking like a wee boy and I'm taking them through this fucking detached house the double garage bar by queue and the thing that attracted me is a big fucking living room besides the things Ellie it's this fucking and I went that can be the party after vikies that's my view of space Ellie parties in here so this social worker turned out and I'm giving him a guided tour and he went I said would you hang it he went no he says first of all where are you going to eat your money I said look I've got money I had a house for sale before I get an egg then he went nah he says you're not having a better house than me and I looked at him and I went nah was the driving team he says you want to run down the road and I went fuck all run so the wee can't fucking actually stitch me up at all I'd went I'd been out a year and I'd went to see my son remember I told you he'd moved to Spain he'd moved to Bellarmadina so they gave me permission to go and I'd asked a second time to go a few months later and that wee can't I didn't know I'd met her to Strafclyde Police and he says I think Ian McDonald's going to flight risk and Strafclyde Police had gathered the intelligence report and it was all fucking shite he says I was going to do this and do that and he says I was in Mortimer's and he knew about this he says I was in Victoria's and I was threatening the owner he snort cacain I wasn't he threatening on her just fucking done it and they had another one I met a guy and I was going to get him done and all of that they heard this overheard the speaking and Joe Shields and my lawyer came up to shots and he was like he says that allegation he heard this guy cacain he says I'm sure he was in Dane's seven years guy was Gary Moore he was in Dane's seven years for Jimmy Boyle's boy at the time you know what I mean he says he was in Comarnock I says so he's come out to Comarnock Joe at the bars and come up my socky old street and fucking spoke to me then broke back in and Joe says look you can hear this and he but it went to court and just before Vickie's just before my demise in Vickie's Mortimer was sick at me this time and he sold it he sold it to a company called Vimac for you now castle and he I've turned up I didn't know where I've turned up and the guys are like that he says we know who you are we know who you are so I've done a bit of research showing them what I'm in cos I've turned up on this where we're taking it out and this guy I knew Castle and I said to this guy I said it's not bothering me I said it's not good running anyway and then employed a new security company up front it was opposed it was running at something I up front cos so it's not a new bouncer it's not that as well so I said to one of these directors I said oh by the way I said you look the same day at a Buffers Mama he went what do you mean I said for Ken the 16 for the 12 I said but no obviously the Ken the gear they looked at me and the following week I was going to sell me his address you know what I mean cos he was he didn't whack me in there and I went up the stairs and he changed all the drinks and he came in and said how are you I said you have changed fucking all these fancy drinks fucking Bacardi breezers and different people like that and just so I was up the following week with a crowd of people and they says to me 5 to 3 the bouncers they say leave and they mean my brother says I fuck mode just not fuck out what I'm in just not fuck out about four of them never done that nor my other pals have stood so I get the jail for that and that was one of the reasons I get recalled it was an intelligence report and it was proved at the London parole board that the intelligence report was false but they says you have breached your license because you get done for a breach of the peace in Victorias that's enough to dare you call on it that's enough they gave me 30 days so I went back in what was your recall for was it not an extra few years I was in for an extra 14 months fucks I went in November 2001 I went back in February 2003 and I could have been kept in for five years but the guy came up for the parole board says isn't that where you're in for so I can't breach of the peace in Victorias but they could have kept you in for that you're lucky but it's the longest you've died at Fyrein between the last age I was like 10 I got out in April Fools Day in 2004 and I said to myself I said that in the book I feel bank robber I says to Cain I said I feel bank robber I said I've been recalled back to prison I says fuck it I said I'm good at it I said I said I'm no fooling about so I get into serious crime again James I said so I get back into serious crime and I'm successful and I was making a lot of money and I bought flats and all that and I had a flat on the west end I spent about five grand a week and I says to everybody that was coming in I says have a wine, a line and shit down sitting in your arse I says it's me and I used to walk up and down and talk I said tell people to be quiet sounds like my kind of party 10 years ago some people will act and I says well come on out to the veranda and I'll throw you into fucking bohos yours might be fucking better much do you think you've spent all the years I must have spent a couple of million a few million easy on it because you've lived a high life one you've felt it's been my head well that's the same time I came out when I get back into crime I had a five year run I was in the Thailand St Lucia and all that I was buying fucking everything when did you start doing the documentaries how many documentaries have you done? I've done three you know what I mean I've done one for the National Geographic that went to 60 countries and I've done a Faces of the Underworld I've done a guy bernard Mahoney I've done a YouTube I've done a YouTube one on STV news after the bomb in the thingy mountain I got slashed and all that in the one week What was the script to the Danny Dyer one? The Danny Dyer was a thingy when I was standing in the penthouse up in the Huck and Fuel Lock he was doing a programme called Danny Dyer's thingy Britain's Hardest So he'd phoned me up and all that and he agreed to date on that and I was going to take him to the pubs and clubs I was barffing cos commotions at the doors and all that and different things so we were in a D2 film and there was a bomb put under the car and a Danny Dyer's or the thingy Hussies were evacuated and all that and they all fucked off and he says that thingy I told him to keep the cameras rolling and I said there's going to be a war here and he says no he says we cannae getting insurance and they fucked off and I said dirty shite bags but when the bomb was under the car that was it was in a par James the old Bailey the seriousness there was a bomb under the car on the Friday the Tuesday I got slashed which in the dug people jumped out of the motor and slashed it so it never got out I walked along my my street laughing and I said get out and get it back but it's just the way they've done it and then on the Friday but it was a week later after the bomb I was in my flat we started cleaning and that organised fucking terrorist movement mob came up and started saying I'm not mob coming I said nothing I came in and he says he was talking we've got to arrest you he says arrest me he says I was the victim so he's down to Beard Street trying to get an interview he calls that a breach of the peace in Boho three weeks ago that was people just trying to get me off the street so that was me trying to get me off the street so that was me kept in and the Sunday morning I'd left the blink reveal outside the fucking house when I get arrested in the Sunday morning the free detectives came up and they weren't up to see me about my welfare or got to church they says your motor get petrol bombed last night I says what? I says my motor get petrol bombed this isn't where we use so that was fucking the bomb on Friday slash on Tuesday me arresting Friday then the fucking thing a fat petrol bombed you wonder how Danny did that I know but it's my good thing I mean a young director could have made his name so the sisters you'd better watch your house tonight sorry I'm quite no majority man so the sisters in the Sunday morning he says we don't want a gangline war's starting and I says listen it's fucking already started he went what? I says it's fucking already starting that's it I says I'm no backing down to this so so after that I lost the flat and all of that James and I moved back into my maths and this is where the books bring me come in because I was partying too much and I I'd ended up in my maths a couple of months and I said this isn't it I'll write a book but I didn't know how the first way to go writing a book and I said we'll just start when we were born and I was in a good way computer a four paper mum I used to go to her beds nine in the morning and nine at nine at nine after the soaps and I would sit with this a four paper and you'd stick me notes and I wrote and before you know it my boy would come up and say I'd write 2,000 words he'd put it into 3,000 words and before you know it I had 180,000 words and I was trying to get a deal and I had to get David Leslie who used to work for the newsrewer he'd say I'll get you a deal with mainstream publishing and he went like he says for fuck's sake he says do you know what you've wrote here I went no he says a book a standard book is 80,000 100,000 words he says you've wrote 185,000 words I said I know I like free books and he went no but it was economic recession then he says no it couldn't have happened because your story is mental your story is for it's madness and you're trying to get another book out so for anybody watching you need to get this you need to get another book sorted because it's frightening and even though it's you because you've lived it you probably don't feel it as much even though when you've got the courts and helicopters but that is heavy crime sitting in a bank playing pool and trying 16 people up on it you talk about a guy in Nick's story he's killed six people you know what I mean you talk about Brink Smart Robert Mickey Mackey boy he was a nice guy he was a despair he was crazy he had the IRA and he had Italian gangsters he was a guy from Corbyd he said you can't see that he left a plastic bag he was calling an island he had killed 5 people do you have a good nightmares? No, no because I've been doing this I was 15, 16 when I was sitting in our cells in that nine year doing in England I just thought, I was like, I enjoyed listening to stories, and there were some guys like that, I had 10 million and all that, and I was like, how do you know the time mate? It was easy and all that, it says, I had to fucking yaw, the 5,000 pound suit, the valour and all that, and he says, I used to do his metafone call, and he's been 25 years, I said, well couldn't it be that easy? He went, how's that? I said, you're fucking sat nailing it. He says, you're a bastard, yeah? He says the next one, he says, I was up on eight things, and the US says it was right, I said, because you're retired, it's 10 million. But that is the life of crying people going to whack me at a million, too. But this boy told me he was going to, he was super, he was super wide, he says he and I was going to a phone box three mile away, four mile away, but he didn't realise he was looking for Ken Foleyd for 18 months, and that was back in the 90s, so you can tell the technology they've got now. You're never clever enough, because it's only one mistake, the corpus are always two steps, I had three steps ahead, and the funny thing is, they are only doing their job as well. Do you know what I mean? We're in that life of crime, you're grown up in polso, black hole, you're grown up to hate the polis, do you know what I mean? But if it's your way and it's involved in that, then, like I say, it's crazy, man. What's the plans for your future then? What's the plans for your... I'm just with a girlfriend, I'm just trying to be quiet. Quiet life. I'm going to try and write another book, you know what I mean? Maybe the only employment is a job, you know what I mean? But then, you know what I mean? You'll get a contact and that guy gave you a job, and he's an engineer, 16. I know. But like I said, your story is unbelievable, and for you to come on here today and be as honest as you have, man. And that's from a wee bit, I've figured loads of things, loads and loads, you know what I mean? What's that been? Nearly two hours. Nearly two? Yeah, another 10 minutes. It's just that I beat Johnny still, man. Beat Johnny? Is that... Nearly three? What? Two hours and 49 minutes. No, it's no... For fuck's sake, it's for fuck's sake, sorry. Can I get another couple of minutes then? I want to talk with my sister and that. Fosa, I want to go on. I... No, I'd like to thank my sister and that for coming down to visit, and she's been a rock, and also thing with my mad-eyed 18 months ago, James. Sorry to hear that. And the police, no, it's because she was 78, she had a good life, and I was a bit angry, well, me and angry, the police followed us to the church, to Doldau, then to the Princess Bar, and the woman in the Princess Bar Adrian says, the police were into me all week, we didn't have a woman's funeral, and says that the woman used to come in here, but she's old now, she just comes here at Mother's Day now, and she says, do you know who the boy is? And she went, I'm the boy, she's only wearing a couple of stupid things there, bits of crime here and there, no major. So they think we'd met my mother's funeral and that, they're not, I mean. And so the police are now, I don't think a police like me still know what I mean. I still think I'm involved in crime, but I'm not. But they're never going to let you in unless, late I say this, actions speak louder than words as well, they're going to think of you, they're going to perceive you as that character, the bank robbery, the jewellers, the post offices, all the people you know, and that is your high profile for you to completely change that. If I'm honest, man, it's going to be tough for anybody that you see, especially the polis, but you, let's say you get good people, you get bad people, and you're trying to change your life, and you're trying to do things right, you're trying to get rid of your other book, let's say. And you're, who's the second to school? Aye, that's it, I could, can I tell you this James, aye, your thingy, they want a shout out for you. My young niece, I was on the phone last night to my sister, my niece Jade 16, she goes to All Saints, say secondary, we are pals, and they say they were watching your homeless thing. I'm almost documentary. And thingy, I think they've all got a wee thing for you, a wee star in that, and she says she's a mention. Of course they're all Jade in it. So you say Jade, hello. All the students at, that was there? By All Saints. All Saints secondary, I was there last week. Is that where it was? Aye, I met three young boys last week, and I talked with them. They were on press with that juice. They'd watched my homeless documentary, and I mentioned three of the boys I've been out and raised, nearly a grand, to go help the homeless, and so on, so Jade, or everybody at All Saints secondary, how he's doing, and listen, early Reeves man, the big man is, who's, let us use his space today, check out inspired Edinburgh, his stuff's unbelievable, 71 podcasts on it, the big guy's class, class accurate, genuinely a big man you're a great guy. Aye, thank you as well, he's got a gentleman today, he's welcoming me in here the day as well. He's welcomed his welcome dams, and check out your stuff on YouTube, so stuff as classes, double my podcast, and let us say the big man's got some set up, but Ian, I've thoroughly enjoyed it, I don't know how I'm going to shake your horn, but I can't believe that's how long this took. Thanks Jade, thanks for having me. It's an absolute belt of your stories, it's crazy, but let us say, people kind of love that stuff, and that's been a pleasure, all the best for future's you and the missies, and I appreciate it. Thank you, you're a success. Thank you, I appreciate it. Thank you, cheers. Thanks James. No worries brah. And I just want to say a big thank you to our new sponsor, Collins Morgan. Collins Morgan have assisted thousands of Scottish residents with financial difficulty, so if you're struggling to keep up with the increase of cost living, along with debt management, then message Collins Morgan on Facebook, and they will give you free, friendly, and regulated advice, or the solutions that are available to you. Thank you.