 But thank you so much for being part of us. Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Kende must confess it has been a while since the last time we were here. How have you been? I'm good. I'm very well. I think we should begin here. I think we should begin here. We should begin here. We should begin here. We should begin here. We should begin here. We should begin here. We should begin here. Then boom! Earlier we used to say, I was told we have to do this, what do we have to say? I was told we have to do this, because the number of COVID-19 is here, the numbers are surging. Yesterday it was over seven hundred, eight people lost their lives. What is really going on? I believe COVID-19 is real. I will say that because I have experienced two close people were close to me who have succumbed. And irrespective of whether it is COVID-19 or not, the government will still eat money. Because before COVID-19, we had corruption cases. During COVID-19, during a pandemic, they can steal. This is even funny. I believe we have funny leaders who use every single opportunity they get to make a coin. Because now we have COVID-19 billionaires. What has happened to them, nobody knows. And that case, only God knows how it will go because this is Kenya and we see how corruption cases are. They are highlighted, media go crazy about it. We have one, two, three days and then before we know it, it's under the carpet. So I believe we need to take care of ourselves because the government will never do that for you. You have to wear a mask. You have to sanitize. You have to keep distance. Most importantly, just take care of yourself because there is no Kenya without the citizens. So if we all perish, who will take over? Absolutely no one. Kendi. We were thinking COVID-19 has gone and it has been the public domain, the notion of COVID-19 with the current reporting of COVID-19. What has happened to you? What has happened to you? What has happened to you before COVID-19? So our leaders have said COVID-19 has gone and it has been the public domain? No, the cases are really, but the COVID-19 is real and more vicious than before. And it's the cold season. So what we used to experience has come on flows. Now it's even been worsened by COVID-19. Again, when the government told us, it was measured by the way when the bars were opened, we were not told to go and drink, go remove your masks, go shout on each other's faces. I mean, don't care. COVID-19 was not open to us because the economy was really doing badly. In a country like Kenya, we cannot work from March till November. It's not even practical. So it was not reopened because of COVID-19. It was reopened because we have to balance between our livelihoods and our lives. So it's a matter of personal responsibilities. And let me surprise you, Hilary. COVID-19 is not spread in bars as much as it is spread in public places. By the public places, I mean rallies. Say, let me bone I want to an end our rallies. I don't understand why people feel they need to go to a place and gather there. And you're all together in one place and you know there is COVID. Nasaizi, yes, in as much as 90% of us are asymptomatic, but you don't know which side you lie on. You don't know whether you'll be asymptomatic. And right now, by then you don't even have a middle ground. You're either asymptomatic or an oxygen, a person who will require oxygen supplement case. There's no in-between. That's very dangerous. But we just mentioned about the economy and we will be jumping right into it. When President Uru Kenyatta in 2019 spoke in parliament addressing the nation, in parliament as required by law, I think it's article 22 of the constitution requires the president address the nation every year. He spoke of we are strong and actually we'll be listening into what the president said in regards to the economy of our nation. He said we are strong. I think at the point we were at 5.6 and an increase in 6.1% in terms of economic growth. And now we have COVID. Most definitely we have gone down. We expect the president to tell us on that day if it happens like it has been alluded by the speak of the National Assembly Justin Moturi if he speaks what will he say about the economy. But before we respond to that, we'll be listening to what Uru said on 2019 April. Right, as we wait on that clip, as we expect the president to address the nation, Odina will begin with you. What can you say in your own opinion our state of economy? Most definitely with COVID, the economy is in, it's in a bad state most definitely. Before COVID even, when you give figures like 5.6 or 6.1% to the common Kenyan down there that means nothing to them. Because you might say the economy is growing but if you look at the gap between the rich and the poor it's growing as well. So when the economy grows every sector should feel that because there are people who will feel like I haven't seen any growth for me economic wise. So I believe right now when Shambhul is economic wise and I'm waiting to see what it's going to say but we need to find a stimulus or we need to find a way how we can boost the economy. And you know we always talk about SMEs and whatnot but you know there are so many easier ways of trying to help people. Like for example if you are trying to help the youth which the government is really fumbling and trying every other time they have no clue that is because they are using ways that are not helpful. What do I mean? In 2002 when Germany hosted the World Cup they lost the World Cup to Brazil. They then sports minister then went ahead and formed 300 football academies. Through those academies we have Mesut Ozil, we have the Mulas we have this crop of German players who now dominate the world. So what am I saying in essence? If you really want to help the youth most of them they don't need that white collar they have skills and talents invest in them because if you know sports is a $600 billion investment so if you invest let's say for example let's take sports it's a basketball, football, tennis, whatever invest in that look at the returns you'll get because you know we always talk about agriculture you go ahead and talk about other things we've talked about since independence. What if they try and innovate you know I believe that we will be able to grow the economy and believe you me via sports you get tax so you make money. All right, Kendi what do you make of the previous statement and looking at our country one year and some months later the president said in 2018 I want to quote him economic growth was largely driven by the wholesale and retail trade real estate information and communication and tourism Covid-19 came with a session of movement, lockdowns tourism actually I have seen quite some good deal to go to Amboseli National Park because now the encouraging local tourism what do you have to make of the current state in terms of economy? Hilary, the economy of this country doesn't really depend on the government sorry but on the resilience of Kenyans you saw around March April there when people were told to work from home and companies started cutting down what did Kenyans do you came to a field I came to a field I came to a field so our economy has not been affected as much as you think because Kenyans are hardworking people Kenyans will not stay in the house for two days without food I came to a cash shop just 20,000 that I have been given at the end of the month is only 20,000 I have and just to be multi-clined so the nature of Kenyans is really what keeps our economy where it is not the government policies that we have secondly what the government needs to do I will think in simple economics right now we don't want to think about the GDP about big companies what we need is make sure that nobody lives below a dollar a day in this country because there is money in the machinani that kumamtu akuna pesa kila sipu not ten thousand shillings make sure that mamamboga goes home with two hundred shillings every day mtua bucheru no, what happens like the kazi wiki initiative was not to make us millionare it was to make sure that okipata your four hundred and fifty shillings would end up in Misheka kwa bucheri and that would be 20 paup that would leave the cost for you to help those do you see that is how the economy operates yes when you start thinking about multi-billion project you do not have that money before we talk about the kanjuning of the Kenyan most vulnerable families and what stimulus are we were given let's now listen in to what president said ekiwanaumia. Ekiwanaumia wiki saka kwa loa kwa Bi-seonke wikwisha hw toxic kwa kwa kwa kwa hwea kwa kwa hwa kwa kwa kwa kwa katik 15.6% kwa kwa hw kwa kwa chifa kwanda meksi kwa hwa kwa kwa hwa kwa mahame mwa because in 2018 a trauma menuse meziha kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa mwa mwae kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa korigipi kuwana was supported by strong public and private sector investments as well as prudent macroeconomic policies. In 2018 economic growth was largely driven by the wholesale and retail trade, real estate, information and communication and tourism. It is worth noting that despite the challenges facing the wholesale and retail trade, the sector has also attracted new international supermarket chains and continues to support the expansion of domestic players. Mr. Speaker, in 2019 we expect an even stronger growth of 6.3 percent reflecting continued improvement in the business environment, political stability as a result of building bridges, as well as improvement in the environment associated with the execution of the Big Four agenda and sustained macroeconomic stability. Honorable Speaker, in the same period, the same reporting period, inflation averaged 4.6 percent remaining within the said targets. Our official foreign exchange reserves averaged US dollars 8.7 billion in the review period, representing 5.8 months of import cover. These reserves provide the country with adequate buffer against shocks in the foreign exchange market. Indeed, the Kenya Shilling has held steady against major currencies with an annual average exchange rate of about 101 to the US dollar. This was supported by a narrowing of the gap between our export of goods and services from 5.5 percent of gross domestic product in February of 2018 to 4.7 percent in February of 2019. Agricultural exports, particularly horticulture, recedes from tourism and diaspora remittances, largely explain the improvement in our current account position. In the World Bank Ease of Doing Business Index 2019, Kenya's ranking improved 19 places to position 61 globally. This made our nation one of the most improved countries during the review period. It is our intention to build on this success to further improve our ranking to be among the top 20 by the year 2020, top 50 by the year 2020. Overall, our economic outlook remains positive and depend by the implementation of our transformative development agenda. All right, so that was the president in 2019 in April, speaking of 2018, how it was and that 2019 he was hopeful things would be good and then 2020 he mentioned of 2020 being strong and now boom coronavirus trying to curb the situation. The president came up with eight stimulus points including the kajimtani for the youths. I remember there were so many out cries kajima youths ni kuklin gata zando review but like kendi has mentioned it was to help move money but even so what other ways should we have to ensure that our economy come pandemic like any other nation it was hit how else can we be strong considering the Africans and Africans were trying to be at a point where other nations are doing. You know first and foremost I believe the only way you can grow a economy how did China grow they locked themselves in they promoted their own then opened up their borders then spread everything outside. So what we have in Kenya is funny and I'll take issue with what he just said he said um he's taking pride the fact that international supermarkets are coming to Kenya that shows growth for me it's not growth per se because they are coming to take over as we rejoice and see our local supermarkets die we have now come at which died task is uh at the ICU any day anytime it will kick it will go and for us to celebrate okay it's fine uh it shows that we we are we are good destination but for us to celebrate that we should also have our own you know he says by Kenya make Kenya that should also be part and parcel it should be real on the ground because these supermarkets they offer employment so what happened to those who are employed by task is you know what happened to those who are employed by task is by by Nakumat you see so all I'm saying is we have to we have to take over our brand because without a brand you're nothing even for any person out there people look at your brand what's your brand now if we are the dumping site for every single person that is an issue because if you ask yourself how do we gain when our industries collapse Uchumi went it's just there by name you know how do we gain when our industries collapse and we are out there accepting international companies and you know most of the time these um companies that come into countries are via politicians so there's there's a certain Mr 10 percent somewhere who's benefiting from that so you kill your own economy to make money and fill your country with foreign a foreign market you see so for me I believe we need first of all like I said go to China way take care of your brand improve your brand and offer competition now put a level playing field where you have um if it's kafo give it quick mud competition give it good good competition and we move forward that way all right kendi how do you make sure that we are strong even when we are hit like we were hit by covid-19 we don't have to get funds from anywhere we have to like the president has on several occasions mentioned that we should buy Kenya and he went on ahead and he used to wear the afrikanata to mean that we are wearing our kenyan brand how else can we build our economy Hilary in this country first the only thing that can save us is manufacturing we are over importing everything in this country including the pen you use the pencils needles we import everything we're still in the colonial era where we export our raw materials what we need to take in the future and what we need to use here secondly look at a company like safari kum what does safari kum sell safari kum sells technology air time impesa i mean such things we need to move a wikidogo when you're thinking about agriculture we are thinking about who is going to sustain agriculture the current age group that we have you know agriculture in the 80s was being sustained by people at that age group who are around people between 30 and 40 now the people in kenya now today in 2020 who are between the age of 30 and 40 can they sustain agriculture in this country are they even interested in agriculture so we have to use technology digitalize everything and manufacture manufacture and consume our own products you pass on gong road you find very good very good furniture good quality things but you go to almost every household almost every office you find the pvc the plastic the plastic furniture which is imported from from hong kong china i mean we use low quality things that are imported from other countries while our country does quality things then i do see people praising ronda for making the first phone but you see in our country we we started making laptops kitambo around 10 years ago laptops were made at jquart but have you ever seen someone in kenya using our laptops you don't trust our own yeah you see buying kenya building kenya does not start and end at buying our shirts it starts and ends at buying everything and that culture going to every kenya because size in ikendapu zakitu i just say in kusafon what i will design ya kenya amanya germany then you will get the germany the germany product go to we have mobius the car that is kenyan but how many times have you seen it on the traffic jam you see when kenyans don't have the the culture of consuming our own we will rather import than consume our own then import in such bulkness that it's not even possible to ignore those products that we can end up see end up kumolio yote unie ambiuta pata jints ga piza ipz dapo you won't find anything from ipz everything you'll find was utambuy niya kutoka yuganda in yataki the prices go go high apu lingara ni metokawa and you'll even find a low politif kwa saba bia kenya buying at that stop buying a river x shirt is not cheap but when you go to umgara and find the the shirts there you can find a shirt for as as cheap as 250 and that begs the question why is our product expensive compared to the imported ones our production is very expensive first of all because of corruption because for you to even start a water water i mean a roll water company the the number of licenses that you have to acquire together to water are ridiculous and the number of people who will be visiting your your premises every day is even more ridiculous even after getting the licenses operate amatatu in this country and that is why they have to overload kwa sababu akuna pesea polisi akuna ezin you have to corrupt everybody it looks like you're doing people a favor by opening a business instead of even supporting our business people like protect our our people from corruption you open a food uh a restaurant in this town alone it is ridiculous public health comes and goes out of your premises every time and every day they threaten so first of all it's protect our business people our entrepreneurs in as much as you support them by reducing taxation in your taxation but do and i will appear through corruption when they now they have to corrupt people in different offices for them to get the licensing and sustain the licensing surely bottom line i think our policies do not encourage us to have uh what to do want in terms of having the business coming up with ideas and seeing them through to production and having good one factor a company or products all right let's move to something different and this is parliament the president spoke of the parliament and he rounded them for being good quote-unquote until this year when we saw a page in parliament trying to change things to see the agendas go through at the time back in 2019 they were okay until this year waliha kumadilisha and jo at least some agendas to move even before we listen into what the president said in regards to this do you expect him to speak of the parliament this time round it's definitely because you know in as much as the president he needs them to move certain agendas you know he louder them 2019 because they were doing the perfect job they were just rubber stumps now when you check the senate this year they gave him a run for his money the so-called tim kenya and uh that obviously they challenged him which i'm sure he didn't like but it's good you see our parliament has been asleep for so many years these people have the mandate of the people you know you know you wonder so when they get there they change their focus from representing the people is such a present in their bellies so they end up getting involved in all manner of corruption dealings and what have you so by the time they want to now come back from there they are being told you get a call boss kuna there is that file you remember it somewhere so go slow so they will never represent the people but that is because they put themselves in the situations if at all you you are really genuine interest was to go and sub the people you will make sure you avoid because inside more or less like booby traps they are traps you're set on your way like we were discussing before the show you see you you're giving money what a view you're giving deals you see those things are recorded somewhere because they know one day something might uh you might start having your own reasoning capacity back because when they go there it's like they they stop reasoning you see so what i'd say um our parliament needs to wake up it's a watchdog it's my yours and her's watchdog there because they are supposed to make sure that those that are being passed represent the will of the people they take care of the people because let me just touch on something like for example on the economy you see we as Kenyans suffer like she just said we have so much foreign imports in Kenya i'll give a good example something like um kfc in Kenya is quite expensive right where it comes from in kentaki it's cheap that shows you Kenyans are being exploited now you have a parliament which you should check on such issues but they don't you know foreign companies in Kenya they charge you so expensive for certain things that back where they come from it's very cheap so our government has um has slept government by government here i mean the executive and also i mean the legislature they have slept in their duty because at the end of the day uh we Kenyans we suffer because these things if you get a jeans from Levi for example you know she was talking about it he said you see the government has put the mentality that this brand is good because they purchased that you saw the guy who made the beds the the the hospital beds if government would buy more of that or spend more in buying what Kenyans make do you know your mentality will change if the government would stop buying this Mercedes Benz and start buying Mobius or stop buying the Land Cruiser for the police and buy them Mobius do you know you'll find Kenyans Mobius because if you if you notice Kenyans follow a trend we follow the politician so they drive aviate i also want aviate they drive arrange over because they send the trip and a good example is Rella brought the hammer how in hammers do you get after that so they are the trend setters if they set a good trend Kenyans will follow because most likely you know they are looking up to them you know but they want to have imported machines because they make a 10 percent kill from that that is the issue the 10 percent is the problem because these guys are selfish in as much as the leadership positions for them they are not leaders they are politicians they are there to politic and for them they will look for any single avenue to make money so if that spoon if you know import even toothpicks if that spoon or toothpick will give me one billion i'm going for it that is what they do kendi moving moving from good people and then being sanitized this year i think this will be the first meeting you will have with the whole parliament from the senate and the and the national assembly together as one back then they were happy because they were speaking about the handshake but now there were some sukunot bado kumome kasi rika how do you expect things to be come that day hillary first of all i have a major problem with our parliamentarians and that and the parliament as a whole because who they don't even represent as Kenyans they go there to represent their own their own views and their own issues like for example how will a governor use that the Kenyan mid bed when you already has a container coming in iya iya vitanda kama hisop so he is likely to use i mean do away with the kenyan mid bed and import his container because that is where his money is this parliament has i mean it's a this is a time when we have the most women in parliament and this is a time when GBV a pedophiles rape this is a time it has doubled how many times have you heard a woman in that parliament raise issues affecting women apart from legislative issues kama kama yaku sema wanawake wa particular special treatment when it comes to campaigns how many times i mean these are times when our students in in primary schools and schools in the rural areas are suffering for lack of sanitary parts a time when we have 47 women represented to represent women issues those women have never spoken about women issues it's usually party politics amani bilgenwa nataka upitisha which which does not even involve women issues there's a bill that was signed by the president i can't remember which year about providing sanitary towels to primary schools at aleo badu zina peyan angwa as ya peyanwa badu tuna gojiya akuna monam kia mei raise the delay we saw a woman give birth outside pangani hospital what did the women carry sanitary pads that teenagers and basins as if that woman had been denied access from that hospital because she didn't have a basin we have linda mama it's free and HIV for women and postnatal care but have you ever heard our women go to the rural areas and tell women by they who fight kufungiwa in the hospital just register for linda mama as long as you show you have registered for linda mama it passes how many women rep have you heard registering women in their areas for linda mama for nhif one endaka parliament boge about ni ni nani tuna toa lau atutapitisha yo bill today we are punishing the president for this i mean i hear women represent i hear women reps picking rallies and i am ashamed most times because i miss the days we had women like kinanjokindumu days when we have kinamata karwa in parliament they were not many but they made an impact wow kind of conversation here a police send us in your comments from to all our social media platforms or i254 channel on facebook and twitter we are looking into the presidential state of nation address on Thursday but of course we are having a reference on what he spoke of last year in april actually he is supposed to speak between march and april but because of kovid 19 the president has spoken more often this time round in this year due to kovid 19 but of course as required by the law he will be addressing the nation on Thursday if that goes by the calendar we have spoken so much into what happened from the economy we have spoken of the parliament and what is coming out here is our parliament has failed we don't know whether the president will be loading them this time round as he did last year now we want to speak about devolution maybe as we come to an end to this particular discussion the devolution the president i want to quote him even before we listen into what he said he says remains one of the novelist of our new constitutional order since april 2019 more than 1.7 children shillings have been transferred to the counties and here's what i want to bring this question we saw the parliament the senate they were on a standoff because of the revenue sharing the they needed a certain formula that was not being agreeable to the majority until we waited for around 10 settings or 11 until they came to a consensus seven years down the line or eight years of devolution what do you make of it i believe seven years or eight years down the line devolution in kenya has failed and what do i mean courtesy of the government courtesy of the senate and courtesy of the county governors so what do i mean let me start from the government the government has it doesn't have the good will to actually devolve certain powers it still wants to have control over what happens down there so you find like this tell me to we had the senate now you see the problem is our senators are dishonest most of them because there are allegations that some of them were bright we have been told there are two camps there is a camp that was bright by the government there's a camp that was bright where the asal counties you see so we are having a situation where dishonesty is at the peak of everything because one will point the fingers one finger at one person but has four or five looking at him so what i mean is the government needs to we need okay uh we need to accept that this is the first devolution coming we are having so most definitely there will be challenges but there also has to be the good will from the government to actually allow devolution to prosper because the only way kenya can develop at and achieve a 2030 vision 2030 is if devolution works now the governors on the other hand have failed us because they have turned to be small gods at the county level or small presidents because they end up stealing the funds we have so many cases of governors who have ended up stealing so we need to find a solution to this and that what do i mean can we find a mechanism from the government just be have the good will take care of the people what do i mean let us prosecute the corruption cases that we have because three code of the governors we have a tale for free corruption cases so if someone was to sleep somewhere in industrial area and we repost we have us at recovery the agency we repost says whatever they have stolen the evolution will prosper because it will be a warning to anyone who comes after this government alright before bringing in kendi let's listen in to what the president spoke in regards to devolution and one thing he mentioned is that it is not turning back to matters devolution let's listen in devolution remains one of the new innovations of our new constitutional order since april of 2013 more than 1.7 trillion shillings have been transferred to the counties devolution has received the full and firm support of my administration and together with an enabling and supportive parliament we have seen it transform lives revive local economies and bring service delivery closer to the people there can be no turning back on devolution the system is sound and has proven its value and contribution to national development however i do believe that its potential and value will be greatly enhanced by focus on service delivery prioritizing development expenditure unwavering commitment to integrity and anti corruption and strict commitment to value for money so the president said devolution has received full support from his administration that is by 2019 2020 what you make of the evolution kendi and do you think the government has given full support to devolution um by support remain resources yes devolution has received it's it has received good support from the government but again eight years down the line we are still talking about marginalized communities with devolution with all that money going to counties where does that money come where does it go we know the the money has to the figures have to match the developments and again uh when when you're talking about devolution you see kenyans have a way of removing themselves from taking responsibilities we were talking earlier before we began the show we were talking about the kind of governors we voted for when you vote for some some governors they don't want to mention their names because they don't want to i mean it's a political show but they don't want to sound very political but you know your governor are you proud of your governor is it a governor you would would you employ that governor in your company if you had a company if you had a company that was receiving how much money does your county receive for example seven billion if you had a company that makes seven billion shillings would you employ the kind of governor you have employed in your county you see we have to take responsibility for the clowns you vote for devolution is the best thing in that in the 2010 constitution implemented by the right people but again it is also the worst thing implemented by the wrong people look at your county look at the ukambani counties not just maqwini but ukambani counties kitambo when i was a kid counties like kitui used to be where where starvation was but today how many times have you had kitui there's a time by the way in gilu turned down food donations she told them you cannot bring food donations and you're not bringing solutions to the food donations you're bringing so she turned down them down today mount kenya is on the verge of receiving food donations there was a fruit of the food basket of this country with the devolution we are about to receive food donations because agriculture is devolved what our county is doing people are raising issues about kofi tea milk in bbi but you see those are not even things that are supposed to be included in a constitution when you have devolution and when agriculture is devolved because if your county governor knows that you plant agriculture he's supposed to formulate and set aside money to help you sell even start a factory for even sake we can start processing our own kofi in your county and export it even if not to other countries so it's possible export it to other counties if my county makes peretram we can i mean that is what we reach there was a whole point of devolution but now all counties in fact that the that's debate about revenue sharing used to annoy me because all we were talking about was the money that counties are getting from national government even now we are talking about adding money to the national to the county governments we are not talking about what county government should do to sustain themselves right because we can't keep we can't keep depending on you see what count we can't keep depending on the national government giving counties money because they're never going to develop what counties are supposed to be doing right now is baking the cake in fact the revenue sharing debate should have been revenue making debates that how much money are we making as a county are you proud of the money your county is making is your county capable of making more money then from there now let's talk how are we going to share this revenue my county is making this country 12 billion shillings annually so why is my county receiving three billion shillings annually that's a healthy conversation but not me talking about the previous governor stole one billion shillings my county gives 500,000 shillings to the national government but my county now wants four billion shillings from the national government it's not healthy it's not even sustainable it's going to fall at one point because you can't keep giving and giving and giving imagine if you had a sibling who from the age of from the age of three three you were taking care of him his 40 is still taking care of him we should come to a point where now the county governments are even paying revenue to the national government then live national government with bigger projects like train having trams in cities and now give the national government the confusion of niganitunatani kwe cities it shall be a competition that maqweni wants to be a city kitui wants to be a city now it's a the the dilemma is how are we going to have two cities so so close to each other but that's not the conversation you're having now says itunangia about tapati account is besanga we're even giving them this money for how many years there shall be a sunset clause that we're giving them money for for this amount of time after hapo sasa ata sasa on dunapatiya national government money because we are never going to develop EUHC manufacturing housing those are the functions of the national government but how is the national government going to fund that when they're giving money there for two small presidents 47 presidents who all own choppers and hotels and 10 wives all right uh there's a there's a certain proposal by the current report which is the bbi from 15 to 35 and the question is i want to uh coin this with corruption the governors want more they have been crying for more money to the counties for them to fail devolution and i have seen a click of a populist they want to have money which they never see it i don't know how they're going to ensure or they hope they will be uh task their leaders to be accountable for what they get should the counties get the money they want or should they increase the the allocations to the government money will never be enough that's that's number one money will never be enough no matter how much you have even at a personal level i believe um if that 35% lands in the right hands the right hands i mean are right governor one who has the interest of uh developing the county it will be a good thing but before we even given that 35% we need to ask serious questions what have they done 15% you know i was um of the of the opinion we need to for every second time governor we need to see your projects don't tell us roads what have you don't tell us things that have been there uh since independence what have you done how have you improved the people's livelihood you know uh if you take uh a tour across the country you will be left um with tears because let's take a county like Turkana has Turkana really seen devolution every other time we talk about food aid every other time we talk about drought has it really when you go down there and ask someone have you really felt devolution they haven't because they govern has failed and you know we have to as citizens we have to accept you elected a clown you accept you failed in your election and will you move from there because we can't sugarcoat things a county like that people do not know what evolution is people still work naked there people still have no water there hospitals there and not adequate they are not enough so we need to ask serious questions and that is why i bring about the topic of corruption we see our government needs to be serious in fighting corruption because the war we have against corruption seems to be weaponized because if you are not my friend i will come after you but if you are my friend you will sit pretty next to me we need to say irrespective of your your bosomness next to the one who's head of state or irrespective of whoever you are to the DPP we need to have serious conversations on corruption we need cases that needs to end i saw the BBI saying it's given to you as max the period for any corruption case you don't even need to have that in in the in the constitution the good will if leaders have the good will because you know your case is as good as it presented in court as a lawyer i'll tell you for a fact if you know most of the time people will say the judiciary has failed but you can't say judiciary has failed because you see a court amata is never decided at the court of the uh uh uh open opinion you have to go to court so if the DPP brings a shamboli case before the the magistrate or before a judge believe you me it will fail so we need our agencies one strengthened then two well funded and then three they should be independent so that the DPP can work without phone calls you know so that we can have this it's not even corruption it's thefts we can have these people who are stealing purported leaders can have them persecuted and all the assets they've made repossessed and taken back to the people so that that will serve as an example and that should that should that's all we should be talking about because we can't talk about it can't be talking about 35 percent to the same people we need to see action we need to see people behind bars and like what happens in developed states you can you see someone was in office they left office they had they had a corruption case a good example is um in South Africa why was zuma sent home because he misappropriated funds and that is what we want we should grow as a country to that point to a person ex you stole you are arrested your case is determined we will possess whatever you stole and we move forward then people will go into these offices with the opinion or with the mindset of they want to serve and not to make money all right kendi before i bring you again uh the president spoke of fighting corruption and also asset recovery of which is what i want to let us to listen in and looking to what happened between the time we spoke and right now we're expecting to speak was in my mind i only have one case and that is waluu case let's listen into what president uru said in regards to fighting corruption from the foregoing it is clear that the state of our nation is strong vibrant and i believe brimming with promise however mr speaker corruption and impunity endangers each and every one of these gains it compromises it compromises on the promise of devolution our economic growth targets the realization of the big four it compromises access to education it compromises our security human dignity and the rule of law and by extension the very existence of our republic so before compromises a whole lot when it comes to government's project and whatsoever the government puts in to see that the country moves forward so other than waluu case case would you would you say about corruption for that particular span of time hilary first of all let's first appreciate that odpp has done a lot and even before him we never even used to hear about this cases and acc has also done a lot we have the latest reports of how much they had recovered in assets and you see the problem with with asset recovery is that they cannot disclose the person they recovered the assets from because it's part of what they sign you sign with the confidentiality but you're given the choice between returning the money stool and going through the entire process so most people choose the asset recovery but now they can't give out the information of whom they recover the asset from secondly kenyans have this notion of how they want these corruption cases dealt with which is i how i i'll want them dealt with but it's not realistic wuki shikwa tukwe kia paata usisi wajio tukpe leke mpaka prison you forget that these people who are stealing are not fools most of them are accountant and lawyers it's layered that for you to it's like for you to figure where the corruption is it doesn't even take those two years what look as case is a case for 20 what seven years down the line it's not it's not even a recent case and this is a time now they're finding evidence and some evidence is even disappearing so you have to you have to understand that the the stealing is not finding a bucket of money there taking it and going with it that's easy to recover it's people who have hidden money in swiss accounts where there is confidentiality they have layered the money in companies you you don't even know the owner of that company when you know it's not as open as we think it is third what i was talking about citizen responsibility right now if i you know i stole money you know i have been stealing money but if at any kishikwa if i want to support aswangu what i want to say ma uyo nikiwa sababa bss and your ma na nashikwa for me by the i don't care who's gilled for corruption as long as it's someone who's corrupt whether it's someone that support politically or not if you want to protect yourself then don't steal it doesn't i mean i i don't care from who is being attacked or who is being attacked it means you're attacked because you have skeletons in your closet if you didn't have then you wouldn't give your up rather your enemy the ammunition to attack you that if i percent in counties need to be sold in in parts the first part of the bba report comes with the city and zen responsibilities let people understand that they have who is the government i am the government to keep referring to the government in fighting corruption i am the government if someone is even rumored to be corrupt don't wait don't vote for him so that he can be gilled just don't vote for him do not give him another opportunity to go still the other part is if the state talks about how they're going to deal with corruption like governors normally they're given money then the projects are audited at the end when the project ends that's when it's audited now with the sorry with that if i percent comes the first year you're given funds then before you're given funds for the second for the second ni ni the project is first audited so it's in a seal in a seal loopholes but earlier you're 40 billion i give you one billion first and you're going to sing it mksha jenga i'm singing one that want to get to an audit to kisha audit so that you are more if this one has so many queries then we stop funding as you investigate this so i think it's i mean it's it's a good idea that you don't give money just for without without tightening the ni ni the loose ends and as as we as we come to an end to this discussion it's more of a rhetoric and i'll i'll still begin with you kende the big for agenda which the president spoke has been speaking so much about we have seen the universal health coverage uh the the pandemic came we saw what our governors did with the beds and the icu's beds the isolation centers big for agenda has it succeeded is it now in the roadmap to win or tulipote amali the big for agenda has succeeded probably will not intentionally or rather has been forced to succeed for example the kovid i was i was actually against the building of isolation centers and ni ni ni was just for the expansion of health care facilities because i mean after you see after kovid did not go away with other diseases we still had other diseases so we can't do everything tailor made for kovid only to come out yomba obado na kufana malaria we have people still dying from cholera cancer and everything else so with kovid came the need to expand our health facilities the governors didn't have to build 10 isolation centers for kovid but at least the each governor all the 47 governors built oxygen plants which are required even to a cancer patient who has breathing problem which are required to even a critically ill patient who needs oxygen so it's a win win for both the housing imagine if we had if the housing project it's still ongoing right the first face was the first face was launched the housing project is still ongoing imagine if this project was complete before kovid came when you are talking about landlords not i mean landlords wavering rents you see it's easy for the government to do that easier than for private landlords to do that these are projects used to fight before the before kovid came but when kovid came it gave us a reality check the manufacturing if we were manufacturing these beds that you're talking about that were not importing that kovid didn't force us to go to gongru and look for someone who made a bed to present to the president this person was there even in 2010 he could have made that bed from kitambo and it will not be an emergency the school desks that we're making right now are part of manufacturing if we were manufacturing the things we started manufacturing PPEs and we are now exporting them so you see the kovid has aligned our big four agenda that we have been forced to actually start manufacturing our own things and i think i'm the only person who says kovid was a blessing to kenyan because once it closed everyone started thinking about every other country started thinking about themselves only that we could not even import even at a china villuana to penda we could not import PPEs from china because china was saving their PPEs for themselves so we were forced to sit down and think but they were easy to tonight importing so we started making them we started thinking about things that now we can even supplement our earnings because the money is not coming in as fast i mean the borrowing now is not so easy we have now to be a business minded country that's now we have to make our own money and sell our own products alright thank you so much for coming and trying to demystify or to put things into perspective of what we expect looking back at what has happened in the last one year or so i want to give you nodin 30 seconds your final recommendations thank you very much i believe your question to kendi about big four agenda if it's if we've achieved the big four agenda the question should be is big four the priority right now because we can see clearly sorry bbi is the agenda and the big four will suffer if we go that route yes kawin might have made us focus on making certain things for ourselves but if you take something like for example food security i'll just give you an example of galana kulalu failed experiment that shows you how the big four is going and uh just to go back the presidential address i believe we need to we need to change it a little bit you see in a country like South Africa every time the president addresses the parliament they always question what you say in the other time so we need to have an open forum i know he wouldn't want that but we need to have an open forum where he can be asked certain questions you talked about a b c d you've done you will do e f g h this is a new year have you done that so we need to interrogate that instead of having it as a speech or a lecture and out we need to examine past speech your current speech so that we will be able to ask to move together properly and be able to ask pertin questions so i believe um we're waiting to say what we say on thursday but we need to address that issue of having to ask him questions because that is the reason why we have legislatures they need to ask certain questions i can't be able to ask him unless where this if he's watching but we need to open up a little bit and change our mindsets so we can develop as a country all right thank you so much for coming and uh finding time for us and bakum thank you so much for staying with us we were looking into the state of the nation presidential address which is expected on thursday uh the president is uh mandated by the constitution to address the nation in parliament annually in regards to security and so much so to speak of things like devolution and the economy of the country we expect to see what happens but today it's all about bbi the leaders are meeting in naivash in shapai uh the mcs and governors they they are planning on how to drum up support for the bbi they are trying to see if it will go uncontested and there are great areas we don't know whether whether they will be addressed before june 2021 it is said or it's believed to be uh the referendum to be on that month but remains uh speculations until we know clean information then we can look into that we'll be taking a very short break and when we come back we'll be looking into mata's career we've been having a series and they have been my guest political analyst nudin akagai and christine kendi political analyst and bakum thank you so much again for keeping us company we take a very short break my name is dereva hilawee good morning