 Okay, it's 630. I'd like to call the meeting to order. Do you have any additions to the agenda? I have one. Okay. The band, I don't believe in return. He was there this morning that he is not there now. We have had a band camping in our parking ride lot. Yeah, I did reach out to be a fee and to get an email back this afternoon that ironically enough our contact bill Warner. We had actually spoke him to this person about a month ago to let him know they can't be with prohibited. I received a call from the neighbor. There's just been some behavior. Just the additions to the agenda parts. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we'll just. Yeah, I saw the man in there myself. Yeah. We'll talk about it somewhere here. Um, review minutes. I have a couple of suggestions on page one, the designation of town delegate to the 2022 VLCT annual meeting. I would like by unanimous consent to find that the motion read to nominate me as a town delegate to the 2022 VLCT passive and verb annual meetings. They're all part of the same group of organizations and they're all being held at the same time in the same place. So passive is spelled TACIF. It's all caps and verb is all caps as well as the ERB. Forgive me what does passive passive is our I don't know what the acronym is our insurance. Okay. And verb is an organization that I don't recall having gone to annual meetings of before at the Shindig. So one of my tasks is to figure out what verb is and what we might want to do at their own meeting. Thank you. It's plural. The open and close three separate meetings. And then the other one is. On page four under the discussion of town management in light of COVID-19. I don't know if we have I didn't go back and check to see if we have any sort of standard language about what basically no action taken but a little bit more explanatory than that. I think I said something like there will be no change in town office procedures or municipal ordinances. You could probably be phrased more politely but just something to indicate that we consider doing something and decided not to anything else by anybody else. I would move that we approve the amendments with excuse me to approve the minutes with those amendments proposed by Carl. All in favor, please say hi. Nice. Here to have it. I also like to say I really appreciate the minute. Yes, they're really, really good. Yeah, so much. You're a pleasure to hear it. My computer. Well, nice. Okay, so you're done. Public comments. We have public up there. No, no, no, no comment from the peanut gallery. You will look great though. Thanks. Okay. Who's person. Okay, no, I thought that. No one else there. Okay. Okay. So six 40 conversation with East Montpelier funding request study committees. And so the total last year was 23,000 the vote on the floorcap is 25. So, either going to have to take something out or keep it below 25. How many members of the study, the committee are planning to be here tonight. I don't know. I don't know. I only see one. One, two, three, four. Yeah, we can't hear you. Sorry. I know Paul had RSVP that he was coming. But we have it listed as six 40, so people may not be on yet. Okay, so we could fit something in maybe wait five minutes. Yeah. Yep. Okay. Let's see what's short. Not our bow. Discussion bank transition and monthly financial reports. No, request for board to send letter of support for capital region dispatch. That may not be correct. Yeah. And we need, we need visitors for that. Okay. Yeah, that's going to be quick. How about discussion on talent management in light of COVID-19. That should be short. Yeah. Or not. Okay. Does anybody want any changes to the current situation? No, I just want to take the opportunity to mention that the Omicron boosters are available right now. Or it shouldn't be according to what I was told last week. And that as I mentioned before the meeting started. I just wanted to say that the state in addition to being able to go to kidneys and other drug stores. The state has a number of places where you can get walking finance and the closest one to ups is up on the airport road in Berlin. So that's available. Also, I want to. Call your attention to, and I think they're all free. I want to call your attention to my post on front porch forum last week saying that if you've got a COVID at home test kit. That should be expired. It may not be. Because the FDA has looked at the efficacy of these again, and extended between three and six months. I think the best buy date for these are for expiration date for these. And the front porch forum. Post have a link to the FDA page where you can look for the specific brand that you have. But other than getting that information out there, I don't have any, any comments. is they're also recommending you take your flu shot and you get the COVID shot. Okay, that's what I intend to do. Oh, very good. Yeah. Tomorrow morning. So I think that does anybody else have anything to say about town management like COVID-19? No. Okay, so that takes care of that item. Now we do, we've got two minutes left, we do have the addition to deal with, I won't take that one, the addition being the ban that's been parked off and on. Oh yeah. I would like to have signs. I've reached out to the town of Waterbury in response to VFC's email to me because I think we should not only prohibit camping, but also loitering because I think that that becomes a sticky situation. Someone, what the camping mean is hanging out all day there with your folding chair and reading next to your van plugged into the electrical outlet constitute camping or not, like what defines camping. So I've reached out to the town manager of Waterbury for the congestion from VFC to get an example of what their latest sign is. We have one sign, I walked over there today, in the parking lot, it's in the far corner, the complete opposite corner where this person has been parking. If they don't run on the corner, they wouldn't even see that sign. No more signs, but the sign you're going to change the verbiage on the sign because. I think we need to add signs at each near each hole with where there's electricity present because I think that that's what's happening for parking, they're getting power off of the pole. So you're suggesting we take the same language or you know? I would like to see what Waterbury has and I can bring that back to the board because I think it's merit considering and this was the recommendation from Vermont State Police that we consider adoring a moitering aspect because our sign does not state that today. Right. And I've seen the person over there. Yeah, it was an issue I forgot to bring up and then and ask, you know, because honestly, I don't know what's sometimes permissible or not. And I was going to, it's starting to make me a bit uncomfortable given that I leave here a lot of times at night alone after these meetings. So but then they left, but then we're back and they were there this morning. They left when I think because the law maintenance crew was here. So I'm not sure there's also been some issues with trash being just thrown down in the gully over there in addition to public urination that has been noticed. So there are some other challenges with it as well. Okay. Well, we didn't build it to be a camping park. Correct. I just want to be careful that we don't put up any signs implying that it's prohibited to park and ride and leave your car overnight. I can imagine people getting together for a hike in the White Mountains, leaving one car here and coming back a few days later. I don't want to forget that. Well, I think the definition of camping would be that you're residing in your car overnight, which is not that. Right. Yeah. So that would be a difference. A car overnight. I agree with you. The sign does not state that that is not appropriate. And do we know what an abandoned vehicle is? That sign was existed pre-gated. So I have no idea how you may have to find or not to find that. So you're looking into some signs. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So that took care of the addition. And now we are at 640. Okay. So conversation with East Monthly of Funding Request Study Committee. We've got Kate here, I believe. And Lindy, let's not walk in. So we have two members of the committee here. And what's that? Oh, we have another one too. Oh, we have a whole bunch. Yeah. Very good. So the application packet will go out to 35 plus organizations by September 23rd, the due date October 21st. Committee report will likely be presented to the board of the 2nd December board meeting. So we've got to set the ground rules. Basically what we said in the past was how to keep it under 25,000 last year with 23666. So we're almost up against the cap. So either one, something will be removed that will be voted on separately or you're not to be able to increase much. 5% would be still underneath. So what do you think? We don't really know until you get the requests. The requests are generally up. And as a committee, what we've done is looked at all of them and managed to stay below. But I think we've always, maybe not always, but said we could come back if something came up that we thought should be removed because we've done with some of the bigger organizations in the past. Right. So you've got 5% you can work with, which is still going to give you under 25,000. I would suggest that you do just what you just said is that there's something that needs to be taken out to make room for something else, then just come back to Blackboard and see how that plays out. So we made the shift at town meeting from a $10,000 vote on the floor cap to $25,000. I don't remember exactly when 2003, 2005, something like that. Yeah. And given inflation, 25,000 is significantly less than what it was at that time. Have you guys talked about revisiting that? No. I think that's more of a town issue than a funding committee issue because that's a blanket that 25,000. So no, we have not. But all that does really is if inflationary pressures are put upon every item, it's going to push it up, but we still have the discretion to move a big item out. We did. And we did at 10,000. But to change it would be, if it's like worth $15,000 now in 2003 dollars, then maybe it's time to take another look at that. I think that's probably a town meeting. That's a town meeting. It would have to be voted on. Yeah, it would have to be voted on. The funding request committee considers itself to have some expertise in the area to make a recommendation. I know. There's other people online, but we stay within that 25 months and only by moving out things like the senior center. Yeah. And maybe you just want the select board to make that decision. You don't want us to put you on the spot. Yes. It doesn't hurt to move an item out of the mat of the mass vote because sometimes it spurs on discussion of that single item. So, I mean, basically the reason that that was done years ago is because all those little items will take up so much time. It made sense to lump them together and but to take something out to keep it under the 25,000 isn't a big ask. Really, I don't think so. I mean, we can discuss it as you get more requests. It's just one separately. Yeah, just one separately, you know, so we don't have that many items on the town meeting. It doesn't seem like that that's going to overburden anybody. But I guess we can see when you get the request in and see where that has. Yeah, that works for me. Yeah, it works for me. I don't know if anybody online has anything to add. I'll just thumb up. It sounds good. Anybody else have any more questions about that? All right. Good luck. And thanks for your work. Thank you. Oh, yes, I guess that's it on that. And the community commuter bus request for will present request directly it's like what an upcoming meeting that's data procedure as far as that stuff goes. All right. Anybody have any more questions on that? Nope. Okay. Bye. Okay, so we're still a little bit early. And we have people coming in for the Capital Region Dispatch Enhancement at seven perhaps. So how about going to discussion of bank transition and monthly financial reports? So the situation here is that People's United is now M&T. The transition has not been very smooth. So we actually ironically have did manage to get a copy of our big statement just this afternoon. But unfortunately, reporting has been delayed, which delays us to do our monthly reporting. So that's the just the thought. So as soon as we can get reports from the bank, then the standard monthly reporting package is done. And so that's the next thought we're meeting. Okay. Been a bit of a messy transition. It's looking better. What? The transition is coming in. Not yet. Not yet. Okay. That's a week and it has not gone well. So we may be manually answering and paying tomorrow. Oh, geez. Yeah, thank people out of any cash. So all right. Is there anything else that we need to know about that? Okay. Thank you. So the next item might take a few minutes, but that's okay. We've got time. Discussion on the role of elected auditors. This has come up before. Is that something that the auditors were wanting to be here for? I don't know. Honestly, that's part of my brain. It's up to you. I'm not sure what can and should be discussed with them. It appears as though this was addressed by the board in November of last year. But what I'm hearing in my discussion with the least one auditor in particular contradicts what I see in the minutes from that November meeting. So I'm confused. So I'm coming to the board because I have already talked to the LCT. I know there's no direction I can provide to these elected positions. So I'm seeking board's advice on essentially how do we, other than creating the town report, I'm a bit confused with the what the role of the elected auditor is as it relates to the town. Well, don't worry. We've thrown this around before made no progress. So I tried to push it to a vote by the town, but that wasn't very well received. So we need to study this thing and get it fleshed out and figure out exactly what we're talking about. I'm wondering whether you two are on the same page. What I hear Gina saying is we have elected auditors. What do they do? I think what you're addressing is do we want to have an elected auditor or not? No, no, no. I want to find out what they do because I had a lot of pushback. Oh, we're doing this, this and this. Okay, we can't get rid of you if you're doing all this XYZ, but we don't know what XYZ was. And part of my source of confusion is when the external auditors were here relevant and powers, the material misstatement, as I understand it in my discussion with Chad Hewitt in last year's audit, is because they assumed that the elected auditors were performing a monthly review of the bank reconciliation. They unfortunately did not review them until the end of the year, which did not mitigate any risk of fraud occurring throughout the year. So the lack of understanding of the scope of what the elected auditor are doing could continue to result in issues like this and evaluating the town's internal control. May I try to summarize them in history? Or did you want to go? I just wanted to say quickly that we should have a policy on what the auditors do. But the auditors, you already know, you've talked about it before. They, statutorily, they review our books again and look for any discrepancies. And then there's a report, just like the external auditors do, but they don't have any other role to deal with ongoing internal budgeting or spending money or anything like that. So the only reason they're doing it is because there's no policy that says they can't. Well, why are we allowed to do that? I have one auditor that is in the office on a rather regular basis. She has indicated that she's supposed to be reviewing the warrants before they come to the select board meetings. So I'm getting some really big signals here on what that role is. So I'm asking how do we proceed with getting a bit of definition around the scope of the specific. May I take a shot at that? So yet you're absolutely right. The November 15th minutes that the statutes say that auditors conduct an annual audit report they're finding to the townspeople, as you said, John. And beyond that, then we can invite them into a role in day-to-day operations, but it's not incumbent on us to do that. So historically, we had an auditor named Dave Grundy who helped us reviewing the warrants each week meeting and did an excellent job on it. And then when he left office or died, then nobody did that from the auditors after that, and there were other routines started. And it became a source of conflict last year, when the auditors came in right before a select board meeting and asked our town manager, can I see that the stuff for the warrants? And should I have no role in looking at before it came to us? And he didn't want to do that, and that led to some conflict. So what we decided was, as I recall, that there wasn't going to be a role for the auditors in preparing the warrants. And I don't recall exactly what we said in terms of these monthly monthly statements, but we can say one way or the other, yes or no, on whether we want them to be doing these monthly audits. Maybe we have enough financial firepower just on staff that that's the way to do it. Well, that would be one challenge that I do run into. My background is rather heavily audited. So when I ask questions, there's just a lack of understanding of what there tends to be. I think one reason you got some pushback from speaking with people that have worked with the town previously was because it's expectation that people drop what they're doing and immediately respond. And that's also not how auditors, either internal in corporations or external typically conduct themselves with their with their partners in the finance organization. So, you know, I again, I think there's a benefit to the role or potential. I just don't know how we get definition around that. But a lot of my understanding was a lot of towns have already eliminated. They have. Yes. So. The current treasurer has no experience of working with elected auditors. Right. So I can't average anything. That's where I was coming from previously was like, this is unnecessary. And perhaps we should not have elected auditors because sometimes it's just more of a pain as well. Not claiming that just wasn't going to work in this office. But we never, we never get any further than that. Well, I think one challenge you have is, I think at least the person I'm dealing with does not have a background in finance nor auditing. So it, you know, I think there is, you know, a bit of a lack of understanding of what even that role entails. So yes, you're right. I mean, in the elected positions, it's not like there's a resume for say supporting why the person was elected. Of course, right. I think the town is transitioned from elected people, which you never really know what their background is. They've just elected into position to professional services being provided for both, you know, for the treasurer's position, which is really a business manager now. And, and the town administrator is also an accountant. So I don't see why there should be a need for having external auditors. I mean, internal auditors. Because she did it down reporting that part of it though. Yes. That's the main function of the auditor. That is what's defined as the annual audit and reports of their client. And that was convenient. Yeah. Yeah. And they do a great job for, you know, the one person who's responsible for it though. You can still hire them to do it. Yeah, that's how it will happen. Like, yeah, right off of the word, for a brother of brother, that sort of problem. But okay. So where are we though? I mean, do we want to start defining duties for them? Or do we want to start thinking about studying the need or lack of it? Or another way of putting it is would solvent powers look favorably upon it if our elected auditors actually did do the monthly audit? I've reached out to him twice and he has not responded to me. When he was here, I asked him that. They nodded very directly. And I asked in my email and he, usually when external auditors arrive on site, they request to talk to the people they want. There was no request of anything from me and from the auditors from the external auditors. Those are related to the audit. Well, I think in addition, we may not get that input from them, judging from what you've said, but internal or amongst the group, whether we want to determine whether we want to extend the powers or the authority of the auditors beyond preparing the monthly report. It seems like that they've been acting on kind of what their historically practice has been. And if we want to pull back on that, we should clarify that if that's what we want to do. It seems like it's been hit and miss. Yeah, their role has been hit and miss. Yeah. And hearing you say that makes me realize that I left out an important part that Bruce would have given of the history. And that was his insistence was that when Dave Grundy was doing the work in helping prepare the financial documents for the select board meeting, then he was not doing that as an elected auditor. He was doing that as somebody that the town asked specifically to do that. Well, we're paying him to do it. Yeah. Well, we pay the auditors anyway. We pay the internal auditors. Yeah. Yeah. So that was a distinction that was important to him. So I think maybe we could craft a policy that said that outlines what the auditor do from town is more familiar and will go on. Or do we study the fact, do we need them or not? That's the thing. Yeah. I went from my final idea on that. It's been a past. No. But what? What's the, like you said, the town hall or you need to ask? Oh, I think the site where it has a right to make a policy. Well, it does. It's one of the roles that the site could have. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. So I guess I take that and refine it a little bit because they are other elected officials and, you know, we don't have any direct authority over them. But the policy can be to what extent and in what roles we invite the auditor to become part of processes that are not statutorily part of their duties. Right. Because you know, a different tenant would be any other citizen who want to commit. Correct. Yeah. But I'm just wondering how well it's going to work in this office where we already have put a few qualified people. Right. That's what I wanted. We need them. Right. But the reason it didn't go well when we made the proposal or I was a little bit behind the proposal, but Bruce was too. It didn't go well because it was just sprung on everybody. So we have the opportunity now to figure it out whether we do want to put it on the warning or not. And if we want to keep the auditors, then we would define their duties. But I'm not so sure. Gina and the other people in this office really need that kind of oversight by people that don't even know what they're doing. You can still have the auditors. I think we're talking, I don't think we're talking about, I think we all agree that there is an opportunity for discussion on whether they can and should do duties other than or fulfill duties other than preparing the annual report. So I think, and if we as a select board come to an agreement that well, golly, we have a very professional staff right now, and we don't need internal auditors to do some of the functions that we asked them to do in the past, then we can define that. And then the only thing that they would have would be the statutory duties. And then we wouldn't, I mean, if we're comfortable with them preparing the annual report, we don't need to go to the town meeting and ask the voters, hey, should we keep them or not keep them? Yeah, that's true that we could just define what their role is, and we don't have to eliminate it because they do the town before it's fine. So is it hard, if we were to eliminate it just out of curiosity, is it hard to find somebody that would do the annual report if we didn't have the auditors? They put it together, is that what they do? They take all the information and put it together in a book? That's what that does. Yeah, I think, I have to say that, I can't, we contracted it out. And there's lots of, I mean, there's ample people that would do that. I hate to, I mean, we are living in a time when it's harder and harder to find volunteers to do anything. Yes. And Deb has for what, a couple decades now put together a town report as basically a volunteer and done a next time. It's not a volunteer. No, she gets paid and Deb's getting paid. I mean, I do, I review the payroll, she's getting ours all the time. Okay, so I stand corrected, but she's a town person who has put a lot of enthusiasm into this. She takes, and she does a good job. But you can still hire anyone. But it doesn't have to be a corporate role. Possibly. But you can just, you're just, you're already hired. You're hired. I don't really require anyone. So we're ready to do that. Exactly. I'm just thinking that more people in here that don't really know what they're doing, and we have professional staff here now that we're spending good money on, and they're doing a great job. Do they need that? Do they need to have internal elected auditors? So I would like to hear what Sullivan and Powers say about that before we make any decisions. But tonight, I think we could say by consensus of the select boards, maybe, that until we hear from Sullivan and Powers, we don't want our elected auditors to be involved in any way in the internal town finances. And we will, after we hear from Sullivan and Powers, we will work on crafting a policy about how we would like, if we would like to invite them in. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does kind of. And what are you saying? Because you're... Well, I mean, when I spoke to Chad when he was here, he did not engage there with any reliance on that was when I got clarity on the material statement. And he kind of said that as an example. I don't, I don't think that they rely upon that as it relates to internal control. I think that's probably one reason I'm not getting the response from the two emails I sent him to ask him. My question to him was what, if anything, do you rely upon the internal auditors for as it relates to your testing and the annual audit for the town? That's right. Because I'm just trying, again, I'm just trying to get an answer to that question because I just have conflicting information and I kind of get confused any every time I have a conversation. And then the examples that are brought up tend to be from 10 to 15 years ago of issues that were occurring. And I prefer to live in the world that we're in today. Yeah. Not things that were going on 10 to 15 years ago. So that's so when I do hear from Chad, at some point he will respond as it relates to our audit that I can certainly let you know. Yeah. I know when he was here again, he did not request to speak with them in any way. There were some conversations because an internal auditor walked through the room. But and I know that's based on some of that, you know, there's definitely been a lot of questions coming at me. But when I ask for clarification, when I ask for scope of work, then it seems like the conversation ceases and doesn't ever go anywhere. But it seems like you're in the best position to judge whether we need them or not. I mean, you actually are. It's to you. And you have a lot back there. To manage, like, if they were to go and look at everything every week, is that if there's a professional means of that occurring? No. It typically lists are provided, deadlines are agreed upon. I mean, that's the way it works with both by the cell, with both internal and external auditors. So there's always a list to request lists. But that's not the way that I've heard that things were done in the past. And I know there was already one request made as the town clerk did tell me to feel free to show this example that the town clerk would need to be audited or excuse me, interviewed as it relates to her job. And when she asked for some clarifying points on that, it was confusing what came back. And then Rosie said, well, if you were asking me about my cash handling procedures, I understand that. So that came to me a bit of as a complaint because, frankly, the staff is drowning right now. We're all trying to figure out a lot. So adding to our plate and adding confusing unnecessary conversations is not something that needs to happen. That's what I think too. So as long as things are done in a professional way, communication happens. And again, I've asked for things in writing. If you're making a request, then I need things in writing. So, and then nothing comes. So then I'm not really sure what we're supposed to be doing about. So the powers have reviewed the town of Hardwick's books as an internal auditor since 1988. And they've never used anything from the elected auditors. I would find it hard to believe that the auditor would simply because they're not unless you're dealing with CPAs that are conducting the internal audit. We'd find it hard to believe that they would rely upon any testing. Absolutely. So the reason I keep bringing up solvent and powers is because, as you say in the memo to us, that solvent and powers says that the material weakness in the prior audit was because they expected the elected auditors to be reviewing bank reconciliation on the monthly basis. They were told that was both a fact. And they weren't. But maybe the solution to that is just to tell them, no, we have another procedure. This is how we're going to do them. Without bank access, there's no way for money to be mishandled in any way because this person does not have access to the bank. And that was what he was here. Chad said, somebody that seems to be reviewing the bank reconciliation. But unfortunately, everybody that was involved in that all had access to cash checks and fund access. That's a problem. Right. So who would that person be then? The municipal assistant does not have access to the bank now. And even if we decided to change that at some point and give her access, then we would likely remove the town court's access and then really review the bank reconciliation. Okay. So I'd like to end this discussion now. But I want to hear from you again, Gina, about this. Yeah. I won't let you know. Okay. And I think it was a good discussion we had on tonight. And we'll keep moving forward. And I just want to check in. I had proposed that we say the board consensus is that until we put together a policy, we are not inviting the elected auditors to be part of the day-to-day financial administration of the town. Do we agree on that? Yes, absolutely. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. You're good? Yeah. Okay. I think we have a lot of people. I think we do. Each one of our department request for a board to send letter of support for Capital Region Dispatch Enhancement. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. Have a seat if you want. Oh, I can stand it. Okay. Well, you're on board. We don't represent these monthly order fire departments. My name's Joel. I'm the deputy fire chief for the City of Berry, but I'm also the first vice president for Capital Fire Mutual Aid. This is Chief Paul Cerruti of the Woodbury Fire Department. He's also the chairman of the Communications Committee for Capital Fire. Okay. So why we're here is just the informational meeting. Basically, it's to bring you up to date on the radio system. And a little background on that is that back in 1990, Federal AD had gotten an earmark grant or federal earmark to put in the radio system that's currently today. That makes it about 30, 32 years old. The current antennas on the mountain tops, there's a couple of things we aware of, I guess. Mass, glass and distance. Mass, buildings and mountains. Glass, it's hard to get into buildings. And distances, the distance between the antennas. So a lot of times right now, if you were on the fire scene and you were to key the portable radios that you're talking to dispatcher, you can't get dispatcher because it's just crazy. It's the distance, it's the weakness, it's narrow-bending that was mandated by the federal government. So one of the other things that we're having issues with is that those transmitters and antennas are all 30-plus years old and we can't find parts for them anymore. So we've been working approximately 15 years of trying to figure out how do we upgrade the radio system. One, to make it safer for the firemen and EMS folks. And two, how do we perpetuate it? So we've been part of the Governor and the Commissioner of Public Safety's group to figure out how we can improve the radio systems in Vermont and especially here in Central Vermont. So I participated in multiple work groups and also the formulation of state funding grant for money. Basically the state as an attrition rate, a state dispatching system has attrition rate about 80%. And so they're not going to be able to sustain dispatching for the 110 agencies that they currently do. That's fire, EMS, a few police agencies. So the Governor had commissioned, the Commissioner said, listen, how are we going to do this? So they had set aside about $11 million in the budget to facilitate regional dispatch centers. So right now East Montpelier is dispatched by the city of Montpelier. The city of Montpelier and the city of Berry created a redundancy between them. So everybody knows both cities flood. But having this redundancy and continuity operations, it allows us to have seamless backup for each other. So we've put in a fiber optic cable, went through. And so now it's just a push of a button and they can dispatch for that redundancy. Really doesn't take place anywhere else in the state, including state dispatch at ESP. So as we were going through and having our meetings with ESP, Terry LaValle was very interested in what we were doing. He actually agreed that we, when very Montpelier changed their consoles, that they would plug in and become a tertiary dispatching. So it would go either way. So for some reason, if both our dispatch centers went down, the state could pick up over for us and vice versa. So that created a huge incentive for us to be able to push forward. And we, through the Center for Public Safety Authority, funded a study, a regional study that went through and said, okay, how can we improve the radio system? How can we make it better and safer? And how can we balance it in the best interests of all 20 communities? So we went through and they said, okay, they drafted up a 117 page plan that said, changing all the towers into a simulcast system. We've cut the radio traffic. We will put ourselves on our own frequency. So right now the dispatchers have huge issues with Canadian traffic, namely the garbage companies and the cap companies. One of the other problems we have is that up in the islands, up in the Isle of Mott and Alden, they have a 200 lock transmitter that just blow them out of the water. And sometimes if you're pretty high, you can hear them and it drowns us out. So our responders can't communicate, especially in the peak of the summer or in the change of equinox from fall to winter. So when the leaves go, it really becomes strong. So we developed a system. And basically the governor said, listen, one of the parameters of this grant is that we have to come up with a way to perpetuate it. We don't want you to come back in 10 years. So Capital Fire, with the help of Manager Sheffleck, Tom Waterbury came up with a funding proposal. And basically as part of the package that we've applied to the state for this federal us to the state funding, we've submitted this spreadsheet. And I believe you all got a copy of that. And if you didn't, I can make sure that happens. Terry had sent that to everybody. I think it was two weeks ago. Thank you. Thank you for the red sheet. That was a good one. Okay, make sure we get it. Yeah, so Chief Brown has that. And so they're bored at East Montpelier. All have copies of that. And I apologize for not having that. My copy wasn't working. So, but I will definitely make sure that you have that. And basically what Manager Sheffleck come up with is, okay, how do we make this fair and equal, but not kill the smaller towns and communities? So what he came up with, and he looked at some funding, is that he used the grand list. And which changes incrementally over the years and over 10 years, I believe East Montpelier's portion would be about $3,700. So that is on a sliding scale that goes with your grand list. So if your grand list slides less, your payment goes down. If your goes more, it goes up a little bit. But it was most fair for like the smaller towns, like Roxbury, that doesn't have a huge grand list. And so they were really struggling with a considerable payment like that. So with that part, that checked the box and allowed us to be able to say, okay, we're saving for a fire truck in the next 10 years so that we don't get whacked with the cost. So we went out for an RFQ press for a quote. We went into the three major companies, Motorola, Paris, and Tate. So Paris and Tate did not respond to it to the request. Motorola was the only one and they came in at approximately $3.5 million. Now everybody's like, holy crap, how do we pay for that? So that's why we applied for the state funding so that we could upgrade everything, put in place this replacement plan. And that 10 years from now, when Chief and I are sitting here, we don't have to come back to the board to say, guess what? We need $3.5 million. It's not going to happen. So we looked at this very responsibly and as a step forward. Now, as we develop the plan for this of a replacement, we were confronted with a lot of technology. People were like, oh, let's go cellular. Everybody knows once you get out of the main villages, you have no cellular capability. So our portables, if they relied on cell phones, one, they're not developed to go inside a fire with a cell phone. Can't see, can't have that big glove, can't do that, and can't talk out. So really, we did some conversations with AT&T and Verizon. They both said that cellular technology would not be here for another 10 years. So when we develop the system, we actually put in the ability, one, for a mixed mode to interface with the older technology, pagers and radios, so that we would not say, oh, sorry, you have to change out all your radios and become huge expense to everybody. But we also said, okay, we want it to be LTE compatible so that we can upgrade once that system comes into place. So we did that. We also were confronted with, hey, what about fiber optics? That's the latest and greatest thing. So we talked with CV fiber, and they're not quite there yet. They're still trying to figure out, there's a lot of miles to lay. But we also checked with Consolidate, we're like, hey, listen, what's it going to cost us? Let's get our ducks in a row, let's get this done. Well, we found out to do the 13 towers, it's going to be $110,000 a year. Bring it out and install the town. And the committee, we're like, we can't do that. So what we did is we stayed with E-Lines, which is the standard for radio tower connectivity through Consolidate, and we kept that. So what we also did is, okay, how do we make it a little more economical but maximize a public-private partnership? So we sat down with Velco. Velco has been fantastic. So a couple of our radio sites did not have generators. Thanks to Velco, we've made a connection to the generator. We have that backup power in place. They also allowed us to put a radio stop in their cabinets in their building. So it becomes more secure, it's more heated and cooled in the whole nine yards. And they're like, anything we can do to help, we're going to do it for you. So the operas face on their towers, they gave us pretty much carbon launch. We also explored AT&T in Chelsea. We're going to add a tower in Chelsea for the Washington Williamsbound into this system. That will balance that out. AT&T has said, we'll give you a free position on the tower. So we're like, oh, that's a bonus. So we're really trying to maximize the savings and really push the public-private partnerships. Tonight, I'm just coming to give you an update because Chief Brown wanted us to come in and say, hey, listen, you got any questions? We'll try to answer it. I'll get back to you, or Chief Trinity will get back to you. But basically, that is in a nutshell of what Capital Fire Mutual Aid is doing to upgrade your radio system to make it safer for both fire and EMS folks. So, oh, what? I had a general question about something you had said earlier that the state dispatch system, the provision rate was 80%. Was that functionality or staff? Staff. Yeah, so they cannot keep the staffing and they're losing their folks to private. So municipalities and the private industry is taking over folks there. Question. Actually, you go ahead, Seth. Okay, so you talked about the upgrade being $3.5 million. Yep. And that $3.5 million is definitely coming out of the $11 million state. Yeah, so what the state did, and we testified at the state level, is that they allotted $6.3 million. Okay. First round of grants to get things going. They wanted shovel-ready projects. And we have a shovel-ready product. We're just about as shovel-ready as you can get. And we cover all the bases. Some of the things that the government ops said that we needed to do is have a continuity operations plan, have dispatching policies, procedures, have existing contracts that are in place. And you currently in a four-year contract. So you're good. So you're not going to get a jacked up rate other than paying it forward to into the savings with capital costs. Yeah, but okay, so we already pay, or the private sector already pays you the $20,000 a year. It's probably more than that. It's a little more than that. So your dispatching costs with the city of Montpelier is separate from the infrastructure costs. Okay, so you're talking. Okay, I get it. So we pay it whatever we pay for the dispatching costs. Now what's the $3,700 a month? So that is your savings plan to replace the equivalent in 10 years. So we pay that every year to you? Yes. It's an actual capital account. Right, there is no capital plan currently. That's been the problem right along, is how to come up with the resources to replace this old dying radio system. But you've got a state grant for so long. So we applied for the state grant. We heard from them today. They asked for some more information. We supplied it to them right up. And we're waiting for them. We should hear on the 25th how we get it. Well, and how much do you think you'll get out of that? I'm optimistic. We have an excellent plan. We actually actually paid money to Tel Aviv to help draft a plan so that we met each criteria. So you could get all of them. We could get all of them. That's the whole. Yeah, yeah, that's the whole. They still need a $3,700 because that's the money it's going into to build a new grade in cents right now. The capital plan is going to be a requirement of the grant. They owe the back of the state. Right. We don't want you back here in 10 years. The governor's like, I don't want you back. It's actually very, very fiscal. You'd be irresponsible to not come up with a plan. So everyone that belongs to the capital system that's subscribed to them will be paying a portion of capital money. Well, those who use the system. The users, right. There are some users, members that don't use the system. Oh, okay. So there's 20 communities that would be directly impacted by the system. Now we have, I mean, this has been a problem. I know with the waste that we have members drop out because they have to give money for the capital. So we will be back probably in December. If we are awarded this grant for some sort of committal. Yeah, okay. That's a good idea because select was coming going. So you're looking at something that you wouldn't want to necessarily get out of the mutual aid system on this. It'll be down to either you use the radio system or that would go. The problem if you picked to go down your own road, you would have to buy your own tower buy your own radio. Yeah, but some municipalities go with the state police one. The sheriff do. So the state police is going away? Yeah, the state police. Oh, that's going to go away. Yeah. So they could no longer do the sustainable model. So that's what kind of drove this. So they're actually shedding 110 communities saying, listen, you got to find some place. Oh, no kidding. Yeah. But there's been a tremendous there's been a huge equity issue. There's a, you know, I'm in Woodbury. We're paying $24,000 for dispatching this year in towns like Williston or getting it for free. Right. Right. From the state police. Right. So that's that's been my beep is that. Yeah. This is something we all should be paying for. Well, there needs to be a more unified system that everyone's subscribed to that they paid, you know, reasonable cost. Everyone paid into it. But that's not what's been going on. The bonus part of this is that you guys own it. You are a part owner of this. Capital fire will own this equipment. So, yeah. So, the producer, they agreed to do that because one capital fire could not apply for it because there was limitations. CDPSA did not qualify. Montpelier says we have the bulk of it. We'll be the fiduciary for this. Yeah. At the end, they'll do an MOU and turn all the equipment over to the capital fire mutual aid system. Well, so let me ask the clarification on that. Because I'm sure you're aware there is no East Montpelier town fire department. There is a nonprofit that we get out of. You're just like we are. Right. So we're a member of Capital West. Is it the town of East Montpelier or is it East Montpelier Fire Department is the nonprofit town of East Montpelier? Town of East Montpelier. A statue of 1970s. Okay. And you all voted to get in way back then. Very good. Thank you. The payments go through the fire department. Right. We did research that and it is the town that's a member. Thank you. So, all right. So, I have a question about how much you're coming in with a technical report and how much you're coming in with a report on planned administrative structural changes. I mean, you're partly talking about the closing of the state dispatch system, but you also mentioned the integration of the very Montpelier dispatch centers and the redundancy there. That came about, as you're aware, through the Central Vermont Public Safety Authority and all the discussions that happened with that organization. Are you talking about further integration of the actual dispatching work and not just upgrading of the equipment here? Can you tell us about that? So, I'll tell you a little bit about that. So, the city of Montpelier and city of Beary said, listen, we need to become more integrated in our dispatching services because, for some reason, if we needed to send our dispatchers a very Montpelier that we shot down, they need to be able to say, okay, this is the screen. This is the console. This is familiar to me. Right. It should be seamless. So, the city of Beary and city of Montpelier have agreed and they have entered in the contract to be delivered in about nine weeks to replace all their consoles in both stations. So, basically, they're same equipment, same furniture, same everything, so that if we had to put them together, we could do that. That is no cost to the users. You're currently in a contract and the city of Montpelier and city of Beary, both city managers and their council said, we're going to take this on. This is our infrastructure. So, that was no cost to you both. And that was approximately about $750,000 to do that on both cities' commitment to this process. So, I don't know if that answered your question. Later on, I don't know what's going to happen in 10 years. It won't happen in five years. So, my question was, the money that you'll be spending to upgrade the communication to them, is that envisioning or does it require any change in administration of the dispatch other than the state belief? Nothing going on. Okay, thank you. We're looking at making some changes of how we might allocate infrastructure like to add data lines of how to spread those out among the users. That makes some of that may change. Who actually collects the money? Well, to be determined based on to try to make them, well, right now we've got a system of volunteers trying to just get off the slide board very familiar with all the struggles you're having. So, trying to manage a very large amount of money so I can foresee some changes in that structure to make it all work. What those exactly are going to be will be determined by the move to say what work was everybody comfortable with. I have my ideas but whether that's exactly what's going to happen. Thank you. So, you're looking for tonight instead of just a letter. Yeah, we sent a letter to Terry who was a letter of support saying you support the application and move forward in that. And basically that's just a feather in our hat. It's a unity issue with the state. They're looking to say should everybody invest in it? No, I get it. We're supportive of the procedure so far. Gina, we had a member of the public who made a public records request for information related to this. Do you know whether that person expressed any thoughts on it? Is that the one with the circumstances I know now? Yeah, okay. Okay. So as part of that public records request which I was copied on for some reason saw that Tobi, I believe, had signed the same letter on behalf of the Fire Department. Oh, we did. Yeah. So we're not undercutting our fire department by any means. I think we just can't move. And standing for their children. I actually met with them last week. Yeah, I think both of them speak for how much. They're careful. Yeah, yeah. So I moved to authorize the chair to sign this letter of support for the Capital Region Communication System Project on behalf of the select board. Any further discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. The ayes appear to have it. They do have it. There we go. And I got a copy right here. I can sign it. Yeah. Yeah, it's complicated. Yeah, I made it for social care. And for all the friends you've done, it's complicated if you were not there. Yeah, no, no. No, I mean, it's, well, it's probably needed. Yeah, I want to push the button. Make better work. Yeah, yeah. But I know it. I know we've talked about it for a while. Yeah. Did you guys see our sign engine? I know it. Oh, we did not. Sorry. Okay, thanks. Thank you. Thank you so much. Is it easier for a no-picker? You bet. Good for me. But we'll get sick tonight at home. Stay with 12. Yes. Yes. All right. That's all right. One piece of paper, Bill. Pull it on. Again, thank you folks for having us. So thank you for coming in. Transparency, if you would like us to act at the same thing, you would absolutely love to. And I anticipate good things with the grant. Yeah. If we do, then I would ask to come back and update you and look for further support. No, I look forward to it. If you, John, could give us some money, means we don't have to pay this. We've been trying to figure out a way to spread of $2 or $3 million costs over. Yeah. That's pretty high today. Not a lot of money. I am on. Do you anticipate any new infrastructure being built? Any new shed for transmitters, for example, as a part of this project? So I do not. I believe they're going to be erecting two additional towers. But Norwich University has agreed to give us location with a generator in space on the roof. Okay. And the other one is the AT&T tower that's proposed in the weekend now in Chelsea. Okay. So I'm anticipating they've already agreed to give us space, at least free. And that's because the governor has pushed them to do that for public safety. Nice. Very good. Good idea. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you. So the next item on our agenda is allocation of ARPA funds to see these wider. I believe was Judith and Kyle going to work on the language for the. We did for the contract. For the contract. That's something that we have a September 15th deadline to get in if we're going to commit to get our money doubled by the state. Yeah. And Judith and I have talked about it and shared ideas. I'm afraid we do not have a finished contract to show you tonight. But we're prepared to discuss just in principle what we're wanting to make the changes. And what we'd like to do with that with your leave is vote on authorizing us to complete the contract and send it out to you tomorrow in a way that you can look at. And if they have 24 hours to decide whether or not you want to have an emergency plot board meeting which we could do online and discuss anything. And if we don't hear from you in that time then we would consider it approved. Okay. And just some of the changes that are in changes between what was proposed. There are some, there is an addition to the indemnification clause that our attorney recommended and as that we've included. There are some whereas clauses that were not necessary and didn't really add and added to some confusion actually. So we've suggested deleting those. There are some small consistency changes in terms of language in the document. There's the section on identifying the populations or the areas for funding for this service to be provided. And so what we, they proposed a template and I've suggested strike but there were some that didn't apply to us by keeping the others for example, school, town offices, things like that. So and the amount that we discussed was $100,000. We just want to confirm. Is that what we're thinking? Yeah. That's what we're thinking. It's a little uncertain because we don't know how many of those underserved households they actually got the advantage of. We just have to go with the statistics we had when it was almost 50%. So that was on the survey. Yeah. They did or whatever did it. So those are kind of like the big picture and just again some of the whereas language added questions or uncertainty regarding the eligibility for ARPA funding. So we wanted to remove that. So there was no doubt. They didn't raise red flags that it would create confusion. So. Okay. So getting back to the original thought, $100,000, did you have we identified what underserved is when it comes to the public aspect? Not the public, the nonprofit. That's what appendix A is. You can identify it. You can specify what that is. We're going to try to find out more information about that. Well, like when the senior said, that's a nonprofit. Right. How is that, I mean, does that qualify for just a hookup? $1,600? Remember, because it's. They don't have money to get there. Yeah, it's a lot of money. And it is the hookup. Right. We talked about that last meeting. I thought somebody was going to look into that, but maybe we didn't clearly assign that to anybody. So did you hear anything more? Okay. But if we, my suggestion is attachment A or appendix A, I forget what the heading is, but if you wanted to identify an organization, a nonprofit organization, specify that organization. So add it to the elementary school, add it to the town office, specifically add it if that's what you want to do it. All right. The thing is that it might cost $50,000 to connect the senior center. Right. And maybe we don't want to do that. Yeah. And don't do it. Because they're just going to pay for the actual hookup. That's what the ARPA funds can pay for. We could perhaps offer the money to them to serve the private, underserved or unserved people that they have identified, and then say that we will come with a possible follow-up. Give us a little bit more time to gather that information. Well, the thing is what you said before is that we can always give money back. If we had identified the underserved people in the amount of money, we could give the money back to ARPA or wherever from CB5, because we're going to commit to giving a certain amount of CB5 right now. Right, right. But you said there was an opportunity to take some of that money back if we're not going to use it all up. Right. Yeah. If it's not being used for that purpose, then it would be returned. Right. We have a time frame to do that. Now, would we give the money, we'd have to give the money back also on the matching funds, because tonight we have to commit by the 15th a certain amount of money that will qualify for the matching funds. So say it's $200,000, but say it only costs $160,000 to do these hookups. So $40,000, $20,000 back to ARPA, $20,000 back to the entity that gave us the money. Right. So, yes, so that's one end of it. What I was suggesting is that we appropriate the $100,000 or whatever we choose tonight, and we go ahead and enter into the contract with them as we work out, reserving the right to come back within a short time and say, we'd like to modify not the amount, but who gets served by this money. And that way, we will admit the September 15th deadline for the states, so our money will be matched, but we have a little bit of time to find out some more information before we make our final decision on that. Does that make sense? Well, it sounds like there's pretty strict parameters on what that money can be used for. It's only hookups for underserved people and non-profits. We don't understand the non-profit side of things, I don't think. Yeah, correct. Regarding the answer, unknown. Yeah, but for the underserved, we certainly do. So if tonight we say we're going to make a contract, allocate $100,000 to them, and have it served the underserved and un-served with the right to come back within, I don't know, 30 days and say we would like to adjust the application a little bit with the non-profit. I would just be concerned about the right to come back. If we're going to get, if we want to get that matching fund, I don't know if we leave ourselves open in a little wiggle room. Yeah, I don't know if you can. We're still making $100,000, and it's just who it gets spent on. It's going to be ARCA-eligible. Yes, no, I agree completely with the concept. It's just some gray areas in there, a little concern. The amendment date control or does the original date control? Because we would be coming in with an amendment. So does that impact? Yeah, the amendment would not amend $100,000. How do, do you, do you know that? Yeah, yeah. I know, does it amend our commitment? Does it amend our eligibility for the matching funds? I don't know the answer to that. Yeah, I don't know. I have one just really simple question. Go ahead. Why are you so concerned about the senior center? It's just, it's just a non-profit that qualifies for the money. And because we're looking to have to make sure that we can spend this money. What if, yeah, but what if they are just as happy to go with a consolidated community? They're not because it's going to cost so much money for them to hook up. They've already said that. Is the power line going to go back? No, no, they have to, what, what the cable does goes by, right? But there's a junction box, like a thousand feet down the road. And they say they can only hook up to that junction box, run the cable back to them. And it's going to cost $70,000 or something. I guess I have cable connection, not cable, excuse me. I have Wi-Fi connection in Woodbury in two camps. And I use the quality community. That's not what Dean Troy, that's not what Dean Troy, the director of the senior center. Yeah, we're just going by what he told us. That it's going to cost $10,000 that he has other options. Well, he's pretty smart guy, I would think he would. I mean, okay, I mean, I have consolidated too, but it's not very good. I have consolidated and it's not very good. Well, it depends on when they have clients. Yeah, okay. And how many people are using community. Yeah. It isn't that I'm specifically worried about the senior system. I'm worried about how many of those organizations qualify for the money. Okay. And can we just, what, what does qualify just to hook up? Do they? Okay, the challenge for us, for instance, does not have an internet. That would qualify, it should. But are they going to build a line all the way to it? Or, I guess so. I mean, if a line's going by, then we'll pay for the hookup, or the offer money to pay for the hookup. But the offer money is not going to pay to put the line all the way to it. So Mike, just going back to this, and you're looking at the bigger picture, not just like in the senior center. Yeah. The senior center is an example. If they ever had a phone line, ever had a landmine, you can still go to consolidated communications, the land lines there. Yeah, but okay, but these people are not dumbbells. They're not dumbbells. They've probably looked into that. Okay. I mean, we all have looked into our internet options. Okay. So this is a better, this is a better option, from my understanding. So the boilerplate appendix one that was given to us includes language like the town reserves the right to review specific plans for construction and connections. And it also says the town wishes to connect its community facilities to enhance the provision of government services as quickly as possible, which may include, but not, but is not limited to facilities such as the following, town office, public works, garage, monthly or elementary school, community and cultural centers. Yeah. So we could just go with that. Right. We could just go with that. And then we will be in communication with them about the details. Okay. So let's do the 100,000. Okay. We're flying a little bit by the seat of our hand. Yeah. You didn't engage me. I have some time this week, but I haven't heard back to get to get on the federal. To be, to be fair, that's 100,000 is something that we've talked about for a long, Oh, no, I understood. But we're also giving more money than most communities that we've done in Portugal. Well, that's true. And because they've been more conservative, but they don't seem to be as versed in the legal language that we're seeing, right? They're all like, Oh, okay. So I don't know. It's just like, I think we'll do the 100,000, but I think it's a little. Do you want to do 80 instead of 100? No, I like that round. And I really want to make sure that all the underserved people. Yeah. That we're providing, I mean, this is public money and this is what we should do. Right. No. And no, to use that old retail phrase, the more you spend, the more you save. The more we get in matching funds for the town. Exactly. Right. So it's an aggressive, someone aggressive ask, but I think we should do it. Yeah. Okay. So I think maybe we should do two motions. One motion to appropriate the 100,000 for CV fiber out of our ARPA funds. And then the second motion to approve this contract. How would that be worded? I appreciate the contract. As in print to approve the contract? No. To authorize Judith and me to complete the contract for the town administrator to sign in less subject to it going out to you before noon tomorrow and no concerns being raised by noon on Wednesday. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. It's what I mean. Sounds good. Okay. So first motion, I move to allocate the $100,000 of our ARPA money to CV fiber for the purposes of building out our fiber infrastructure to underserved and unserved area. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. And then I move to authorize Judith and me to complete the contract with CV fiber regarding the $100,000 and to authorize the town administrator to sign it with a condition that it be sent out to you all by noon tomorrow. And you have 24 hours from then to raise concerns and follow an emergency meeting if there's something we need to discuss with the understanding that our deadline is September 15th which is Thursday. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. I appear to have them too. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for not being due. Yeah. Thanks guys. Thank you for working on that. So. Guthrie's here and we're on time actually despite ourselves. County Road project update. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Trying to get into the light a little bit. Yeah. Where are you? Anyway, where are you? I am. Is that better? Oh, that's much better. Sorry. I'm walking. Beautiful moon. Are you in Massachusetts? I just pulled in. Yep. Oh, perfect. Yep. Oh, found a shipping container. Good background, right? Yeah. Yeah. The, yeah, he's making wicked good progress. I don't know if Gina shared any of the pictures with you guys or not. He got the guardrails out on Saturday and got silt fence set up and perimeter fence. And today he got the old pipe completely out. They did the dig away at the edge of the road where they have to put new base material in to widen for the guardrails. So there, I think they made really good progress for the first day. Tomorrow looks pretty wet, so hopefully he can continue to make progress, but they have the base almost all in for the actual pipe to set in there. So the contractor to pour the head walls sounds like he's supposed to be making some headway with him towards the end of the week. So hopefully in theory, hopefully the road would be open maybe Wednesday afternoon. When they get done. If not, definitely I would say by the end of the day, Thursday. So that's, that's about what I can tell you on that. So I'm assuming that would land them probably up at the other culvert project, their site to the end of the week doing the same thing they did on Saturday, which would be site prep, meaning pull the guardrails, silt fence and all of that. And then they would start back over a week from today. And the other one would be done with the head walls? I don't know if the head walls would be completely done, but they can still put up the, they can put up barrels and such. Yeah, I know. So does everyone understand what's going on is they're going to put the culvert in without the head walls, then open the road and then do the head walls after the road. Right. That was narrowed up right there. So there's still room for cars to go through. They can still work on head walls, concrete head walls. And that's a good thing because they can do the, the cars will be doing a compaction, which gains a little time on the whole thing. Because the compaction is really important before the pavement happens. So you don't get the big dip in the pavement when the thing settles. For sure. They're pretty accurate. Yeah. Yes. And you really don't want to backfill the head walls for about two or three days just to let the concrete do its initial curing, and then let it build some strength, because last you wanted to just push that over as a contractor. Green concrete is not good to backfill. So yeah. So we're getting complaints, I guess. Somebody told me there was somebody that lost five tires or something. But so the question about the complaint, I was talking to somebody who happens to be a civil engineer, and I guess I wasn't aware that part of the problem was like, it's not actually gravel because we can't get gravel anymore. Is that what's going on? No, no. The gravel that you get is stone that's been blasted. Yes, but it's like from way down because there aren't any gravel pits anymore. And he said, the person I talked to said, well, you're lucky that you're actually getting pavement over because they're actually paving or doing roads with that stuff, that blasted stuff, and not putting pavement over it in some places. Oh, we do. Guthrie answered my questions about that very well. We do it in East Montpellier. We put a blast system. Just we ask him about it. Okay. Guthrie? Yep. We... I'm sorry, what did we ask him? About what we can get and what we're putting on the review. Yes, thank you. So, yes, there's pit gravel, which we do not use, haven't used, I would say, since the 90s as a town. And then there's crushed granite and crushed ledge, which is stone that's actually blasted out of the earth that's solid, or is tailings from headstones that gets crushed down into material. And we try not to use anything over one inch in size. Most of it's three-quarter inch, meaning the biggest stone in it would be one inch or three-quarter inch. In mud season, we use a very small amount of inch and a half, and that would only be used in our absolute worst spots, just because it does lock it right up pretty quick. And then we cover it over before we do our first grading or while we do our first grading. And then, but right now, like what has been put on the county road was crushed ledge. So it was blasted out and then ran through a crusher, crushed down to three-quarters of an inch. So it's everything from three-quarters of an inch smaller. So that's it. What it is is you get better angles on the stones. So your compaction rates become better. The wear surface on the top of it becomes better. It stays together longer than stones that have rounded edges. That's the pit gravel is round. Yes. It's been washed by the river. Yeah. And it was deposited by the positive by glaciers. Glaciers. Right. And we still, we still have that kind of gravel, but it doesn't act like the question. Okay. Okay. So my question was, I was under the impression that we didn't even have that gravel anymore. Oh, no. Okay. Because I was going to say, you know, maybe we should communicate that, but if that's not the case, then we should crush that gravel while it comes out. Okay. It's a wash. You can. It's different sizes though. Oh, okay. You know, it could be this big. It could be this big. Okay. Well, you size it doesn't, that's, yeah, you can screen it. You can have it around there. Yeah. And they screen it. Oh, it's a question. Yeah. The right side. If you screen it, that gives you a uniform size. Okay. But when he says inch and a half or three quarter, they have a screen at that size. Okay. Okay. The inch and a half is smaller. Okay. Yeah. So there's a strategic reason for it. And okay. Thank you. Thank you for answering my question, Betsy. But as far as the complaints go, I mean, the most recent complaint on Front Forge Forum is someone who has outraged that there are detours away from the road at a time that it's being worked on. And you know, I don't know how we can do road work without putting up detours. You just have to worry about town meeting. That's all. I'm not worried about one thing. You know, you have to be realistic. You have to put back something. Right. Yeah. How to think of business that's right in the area where this work is happening right now. Morse has been nothing but wonderful to work with through the entire process. So, you know, their latest states of post actually thanked us for the signs that wrote the road warmings up there for, you know, the kind of guide people to do their farm. So, I think their words were the town for eating some great signs for them. So, just want to thank Morse Farm because they have been, you know, it's just a significant impact for them. And they've been wonderful to work with. But you've got to remember, Verm Morse is from the era where they used to roll the roads. Right. And the snow was this deep. Yeah. Yeah. And then mud with that, too. So, this is a huge improvement. We're also getting us a nice call out on the front. Yeah, I did. That was really nice. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you, Gosier. Jeffrey, do you want to talk about the guardrail? All right. Yeah. So, apparently originally, Doug had put it in the plans that they were going to reuse the existing guardrail. So, in the original bid, it has it in there that they were going to remove the rail. And then they have it that they were going to reinstall the rail. And I think there was a few pieces to be replaced, maybe a few panels. There was posts that were completely bent over now. And it was in rough shape. To say the least, it was bad. I imagine if you went back and looked at Google Earth images along that, I could have pulled those up for you. I didn't really give that a thought until just now, actually. But it would have been really obvious how bad they really were. So, long story short, I feel we should just put in new ones and be done with it, not put some new and use a few pieces of the old. So, all new is about 16,000. That's the new everything anchors. Which comes to about $30.75 a foot installed. And it would actually come in a little under that because the removal was already in there. And the reinstall is in there, and the few panels. So, it shouldn't come to 16,000. There's a little bit of credit to go back on to that because of the reinstall and whatnot. So, some of that was already accounted for, more or less. Some of that portion of the project. I would like to see it all go to bright rail and be new. I tried to get pricing today from another company and I was unsuccessful. They didn't get back to me yet today. I struggle to believe that they're going to be anywhere under that $30.75 a foot. And then scheduling it in is a whole other world. When you already got a company coming to do the other ones, they can just do those in, which is Lafayette. They're coming to do the ones up at site number two, as it is. So, I think you could add these ends in at that same, that's who we got the prices from. Through Blue Mountain, but because they were already coming to the other site. Probably ought to get them to do with the other. Right. It just makes sense for them to do all four pieces of rail at once. Rather than getting a price from another contractor and then trying to get them to schedule a different portion of the same job. That's not worth it. Right. It's not worth the hassle. Yeah. Yeah. So, So, So, Do anything? What's that? We need to do anything. Well, it's an overage, right? It's going to be around, it's $20,000, but it's overage. So, it'll just be a little overage. Yeah, I think so. But we do have some credit too, because of what we said. Yeah, it's something cool stuff. Yeah, no, there's credit from the asphalt. Well, that's a different profit. It's a different profit. Right, right. So, what I need is to know that Fred has the okay to add that in to the job, which makes perfect sense to me, but I can't make that call without you guys. No, no, it does to me. I mean, do we, I think we just do it in consensus. That's okay to add that in as an extra cost. Yeah. Because the old guard rail is crappy. Yeah. The new guard rail, that's pretty reasonable. And Lafayette's coming to do the one site. I think we should actually do both. And Fred can add that in as an extra cost. Don't get me wrong. There was a time when rail was way less than $30.75 a foot. Yeah, I know, but hasn't done all that on it. A lot of things are different. Yeah. Don't go for it, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, I think, I think everybody agreed. Yeah. I'll call Fred in the morning and let him know on that. He already said that he didn't know how he was going to save anything that was taken out. So. No. Yeah. Jump. I'm good. Okay. Not junk. Recycle. We recycle it. I know. I don't need any guard rail. I could be a recycling place, but we don't need it. So we don't have to see your certificate of recirculation. Yeah. So, I mean, we discussed a year or two ago the possibility of getting pre-rusted guard rail for our historic culvert on the center road. Pre-race. Yeah. That's what was recommended to us by historical preservation people. Is there possibility that we can sell this old stuff at a premium? It's not a challenge. Here you go. It's not a challenge. For the people who want to bust these stuff. They do. They get on Max Gray Road. Okay. Hang on to it. You have an in. So just to put it out there. Lafayette does sell retired interstate rail, which are long, straight panels, usually when a interstate gets rehab. And there are life years left in it. And it's not like the stuff that we had been priced anyway, the season, even though it is weathered or whatever. But I just think it makes sense to start fresh. But some people don't like the look of the bright, chauvinized guide rail. I personally, I'm not going to tell them to close their eyes when they drive through. Okay. There's a seat you are clearly marked. Okay. So does anybody want the season guide rail? No. No. Oh, good. Great. Okay. We good? We need anything else that I got through? No. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Dr. All right. Okay. Appointments. And we're right on time. So the kids, this is the municipal assistant. So eventually upon her, has he been visiting town pressure or the institution town clerk? Yeah. So moved. Yeah. That is. All the favor, please. Yeah. Yeah. It's good to have it. They do have it. The warrant. The warrant. So right here. Yeah. You have your business, right? Yeah. Yeah. We did the other business. Hey, I only went back to the worst. Everett, E.J. Prescott, what would you buy there? That's where we buy culverts. Well, okay. So the 16 gate culvert, right? Oh, was that on you? Yeah. Yeah. That's what it would be. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. I just learned that's what they sell. We have a tax credit on someone who just started as an employee. Yeah. That was there before, but yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, as a resident. Yeah. Yeah. I was as a resident. Got it. Correct. Got it. Yeah. Got it. Okay. This happens to be getting paid now. Yeah. That was the only thing I had. Was that the oldest truck that needed the pipe you were talking about this morning? That Frank's truck? Yes. Yeah. And then the other truck got a rear brake job. So that's kind of normal wear and tear. Yeah. 70,000 miles on the first set of brakes. Wow. That's pretty darn good. Yeah. Are those drum brakes all the way around on that? Yep. Oh, they're just a drum. Yep. No ordinary drum, but yeah, air brake. Yep. And the only reason that we even dug into them was because three of the slack adjusters wouldn't adjust anymore. So it was just, yeah. That was at that point. The two on the driver's side usually go first because of the conveyor for the material spread. Yeah. It just kind of trickles that a little bit extra material in the winter. Now, those brakes automatically adjust? Generally, yeah. Until they start to get sticky, and then they are fine. Yep. So I should sign this thing for the old, looks like. Particularly, a certificate of employment. Yeah. This is a letter. This is that. Where you pass it down? Take a little bit of stuff on top. Okay. Where you pass it down? All these three can go down. Is everyone done with the words? Okay. We're done with other business. The only thing left is personnel matter. Did we want to take the town administrator report? Oh, yeah. What are we going to look on? Let's see. Let's go on there, Gina, that we need. You're taking some time off. We did the warrants. That's some future meetings. Back to our first and third schedule. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My members. Yeah. I don't see anything that exciting here, though. I'm not trying to put you down, but. Not exciting. It's fine with me. Okay. I'd be excited for my case. Where are you going? Taking time off. All right. So I think we're ready to go into the potential executive session and discuss personnel matter. I would move that we go into executive session pursuant to one BSA section 31383 to discuss a confidential employment matter personnel matter. I'll second that. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Yeah, I was having. With Beardrow, I think it's a bit for the night. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I will finish off when we have the time. I'll give you the rest of the meeting. I don't want her out there hanging out for it. A journey is going to be part of it. Yeah. Right. With a tie. Exactly. I will pause recording. Recording stopped. Good night. Good night. Thank you. Thank you very much. That's not when you're ready. You're ready. But we don't need to both get out. Okay. And David Delcourt, he's not looking then. He has either. Okay. So no action taken. And the next thing we have to discuss is the end of the day. I'm making motion. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.