 Hello. Hello. Hello, Dr. Williams. How are you? I'm doing good in yourself. I'm well. As well as well can be during these times. Yeah. We're gonna have a discussion about how basically we're gonna, I would want Dr. Williams to lead the panel on how we want to cover, you know, the truth in reconciliation with this project and are we gonna engage the community about how this is important now as well and how it affects our lives. Because it's definitely affecting our lives. And it has been for a long time. Yes. I think where I would start in terms of truth and reconciliation is actually admitting the horrors of black and brown people on the mainland of America, starting with the 1619 project idea of the first ship, documentary ship arriving, what was it, Virginia. So like just we have to start there because we can't start in the middle of the story because it's all attributed to this long history of over 400 years of slavery and just free labor. And the ways in which they have used power in various ways to continue to enslave us, maybe not physically, but mentally through the oppression of jobs, so forth and so on. In addition to when it comes to the penal system, the idea that people try to present is it's all about rehabilitation, but that's not the real point of it. If anyone knows about the development of police officers, it's really out of slave catchers. That was the whole kind of premise of policing was to really catch slaves. So with that mindset carrying it over to 2020, it's still happening. Still thinking of us as slaves, as free labor, as individuals that can be controlled by them. Property. Right. Right. And once you get in the penal system, that's how they treat you as if your property, usually doing manufacturing jobs or jobs of some sort. Some prisons engage in that, in only paid prisoners, like 20 cents, 25 cents, something very low wage. But again, because they're not viewed as humans once they're behind those bars. They're viewed as animals that they can control. I feel that the only reason they actually do pay them is to say that they pay them. It's not because it's the right thing to do, it's not because they have rights just because they made a mistake one time and they're paying for it. They don't have any more rights. I think it's just to say, oh no, we pay them. So it's not slavery. Yep. They try to frame the conversation as if, oh no, they're actually working at their own free will when it's really not that. That's nothing that you could live off of by any means. And not at all. And another like just to add to that, I think that's another way we can engage the community with this to bring to the awareness of how easily you can be coerced into be putting it to that situation. And I think that one of the messages that this project that we're doing is keep your mouth shut, let a lawyer do the talking. Because until we start teaching our people how to deal with the legal system, this is going to always happen. And coercion is a big part of the problem. It's a big, big part of the problem, especially with mass incarceration. Exactly. It's purposely done by politicians because this is how they get reelected. We're getting criminals off the street. So by any means necessary, we want to make sure these charges stick, regardless if this is the right person or the wrong person, not going any further. Too often it's like this person was there, I have enough evidence or I think I have enough evidence to link them to such and such crime. So that's that's all we need. We're not going to search for anyone else. Prime example is the exonerated five, which is central part five. Is one of the prime examples of making big these huge leaps just to say we caught the person. Yep. Just to say we're doing our job. We doing our job the right way. And hit and you know, the biggest slap in the face to me, it's always like, you know, let's get him to admit he did it so we can shut this down. When the real reason that they have that job is to actually find the actual person who committed that crime, but that's not what they're worried about because they're going to let that guy stay on the street to do it again. Yep. You know, as long as we got a guy that is black and admitted to it, if we can get him to do it, then, you know, I get to be sheriff or I get to get promoted or, you know, it's always about me, me, me, me, me. How they make themselves look good to the community. And it's another side effect of capitalism because these people are trying to get money to support their families and that's why they need to move up in the system to get more money to be paid more. So it's a competitive market and that there's no place for that in the justice system. It's designed for us to fail. Yeah. Yeah. And also this idea of the blue code or whatever it is, this code of honor among police officers, regardless of what's going on. It's another big issue in terms of incarceration. Yeah. And that's, I don't, I don't, I've always found that funny because it seems to me like the code of honor is more important than the oath that they swore. And it's always, always, this has always been the case. And it's a big, big problem. It is. I was having a conversation with some friends and just because defunding police is a big topic right now. And what does that mean? My friend asked me, what do I think of police officers? And I say all of them are bad. He was like, well, there are a few good ones. No, no. There are no good ones when you are sitting and letting other officers do what they're doing. So you're being complicit in this entire situation. So the entire system, I don't care if you're black, brown, white, purple, if you're part of this system and not saying anything, you're part of the problem. There are stories out there about people, about police officers who are doing something, who are saying something, and then they get fired. Yep. And that's why you can say, you can say all of them are bad because they're no longer police officers. You know what I mean? So the ones who are staying are the ones who are, you know? So I think that's a great point, Jay, because it really confirms that all police are bad. Because even when a cop tries to do the right thing, he gets shoved under the mat, that's good. You know what I mean? You're no longer, you can no longer be in the street because we don't want you to tell our secrets. Right. You're not going to move up in the ranks. You're forever going to be at this position if you remain in this position. This is the only place you will exist because I don't want you to mess up my opportunities to steal drug money, to plant drugs on individuals, or just all of the stuff or things I've done in the past. I don't want that to come to the forefront by you rising through the chains. How do, how do we engage the community? You know, how do we bring them into this, to this world of theater to tell the story and how we can help people find a way to not let this happen to them? Yeah. Stop. I would say talk through stats and everything else, but for some reason people, they're not interested in facts. No. For whatever reason. I think there needs to be a clear conversation with the community from the perspective of those who been incarcerated or railroaded in some type of way. Because too often there's this cognitive dissonance that is created in these situations. Because it's not a personal thing, it's like, oh, I don't care, but we have to make it personal for them to care. I can say that I've had my own personal experiences with this. I can say that I have very close friends and family members who have had experience in this, who have served time for things they absolutely did not do. And then at the end of the day, they still serve their time and the charges just get dropped or they just throw it away. But who's going to give that time back? You know, you can't give that time back and scars are made. The PTSD is there. All these problems that come with going to jail when you don't deserve to be there, it's like a huge effect on our community as men of color and women of color. And it's honestly just very sad. And I think that we can tell this story within our community exactly how Dr. Williams had said by having people who actually did go through this and have these discussions within ourselves and everyone that's involved in the project and bringing in community leaders also. I think that's a big, big part that we can use to engage a community. And like I said, I don't want to hear police talk. I don't want to hear Bozo. I don't want to hear judges talk or attorneys talk. I just time for them to listen and admit it. Yeah, I think that's a key part of the healing is actually getting people who have been in the situation and listening to them because as Dr. Williams pointed out, these days people aren't adhering to the facts of the matter. So you need to put a face, make it an emotional connection so that people can understand that this is something that has happened is happening. And unless we do something about it will continue to happen. Exactly. And I definitely want police officers and judges and anyone a part of the legal system in the audience. Because the other part of it, this is much more directly related to the play itself is although you're exonerated, there's still this stain that you wear Yeah, from then on out. We legally on paper and everything else you may be free, but you're not free because the community is going to remember and associate with associate you with that crime or that thing that they attached to you. And you're going to wear that on a day-to-day basis like mentally PTSD, it's going to sit in you forever. And I think exonerated if we can find some exonerated individuals, have that conversation and talk about their struggles of just existing in society. Yeah, and I'm going to throw a name up there, Khalif Browder, prime example of what you just described. How somebody took his own life because of what this system does to us. And I think it's not just him, it's many, many, many, many. Yeah, but he is the most prominent person in terms of where you really was able to see the effects of it. There are so many people who suffer in various ways, but his really took a toll on him. He was young when he went in, I think he was what, 16 or 17? And he wasn't put in a juvenile facility. He was put in the men. Yeah, on the island at that. One of the worst prisons ever. Yep. And coming out of it, it's like I've had all of these experiences. I've had so much taken away from me. How can I ever regain a basic sense of self? How can I re-establish life for myself? And I believe that's part of the reason why he took his own life is because he probably didn't understand how to exist in this new world. Yeah, and that brings us back to just being exonerated. What does that mean? You know, okay, go back out and be a person. How do you become exonerated within yourself? How do you let go of everything and the trauma that you just went through? How do you exonerate yourself? I couldn't into that much. Yeah, this project is super important, super important, especially for right now. And I think, I definitely want to engage the youth on this. Yeah. Big time. And I'm going to be working with a couple of community members that I've been keeping an eye on and watching how they've been moving through these times right now. And just within my community and anybody that y'all think could be a great help to engage the youth on this. Oh yeah, I got a couple names. That would be great. I think it would be an excellent idea to have a community organizer and activist of some sort. So that's how we're going. Yeah, so we can talk about the idea of defunding and what it really means and not what people think it means. It's really about reappropriating some of the funds, some of the excess funds that they're getting to militarize the police department in just the lying pockets. Funny thing you say that is, and I saw this a couple, like I think it was two weeks ago, Jay, maybe that the mayor of Providence held a press conference on truth and reconciliation and reparations. Yeah, I saw that. And I just said, wow, this is, you know, it's just like how the universe works, like how we're working on this project now. And just within, just to see something like that in my own city was like, whoa. I think we need more community policing, but programs. Yes. I remember when I was younger, there were a lot of free programs out there that you could attend, participate in, even if not free, a small fee. But a lot of those things are being taken out of communities. And they're not understanding the impact or what they're doing about removing these things instead of fixing or correcting whatever they think is broken about this program. Because students no longer have a safe place to visit, to hang out somewhere to really direct their energy. So what are you going to do? You're going to hang out and maybe even get in some trouble. So, but again, you're purposely designing the system for us to get in trouble or to be in this pipeline by removing those things that redirects that behavior. Yes, sir. Yeah, I mean, you hit that right on the button. Just us, we've all, I would like to say, probably grew up with similar views of how to just be and how to walk down the street. And the pressures of being involved in violence growing up in the inner cities. And it's a tough thing to say no to. And if we had, like Dr. William said, like programs that people could go to, like, you know, like, I haven't been seeing some like no more boys and girls clubs. I haven't been seeing kids getting involved at the YMCA's. I haven't been, you know, and like when I grew up, there were more outlets I would like to think. And that has just faded away. Yep. I could easily fallen into the pattern of like being a part of gangs or just mischief. Yeah, yeah. Running the gamut. Because I grew up in lower income housing. And right next to us was a subdivision. But most of them were lower income of some sort. And a lot of the students and people I associated with, they wanted me to run the streets with them. But the thing that kept me out of that was me staying so active. I never had time to get into trouble. Because I was too busy going to this thing, to that thing, to the next thing. Basically, six to seven days a week, always had something to do, keeping me occupied. Yep. And I think that's what that would make a big difference of a lot of more people had that mindset. You know, it's a mindset. You know, there's also, you know, you need the opportunity, but it's also a mindset. But you need to be taught that mindset. Yeah. And you know, whether you learn it too late, or you learn it early enough, I think it's always something good to be learned within our community and something that we can actually probably offer to the youth. Yeah. So yeah, I think that's great. How do you guys feel? I feel like we've covered a lot of the things that we wanted to. When the reading will be, that's something, you know, I think we've talked about this, Dr. Williams. But I don't know if, you know, do you think it was a good time? I think, what do we say? Uh, yeah, let's do September 12th, because I want to make sure we're all on the engine. Yeah. Yeah, nobody's gonna give the attention on 9-11. Yeah. And I'm starting classes. We start back the last week of August. So I know I'd be scrambling to put my syllabus together. Yeah. Respect, respect. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you gentlemen so much. Thank you, Dr. Williams. Thank you, Jay Walker. Great conversation. I think, yeah, we have work to do. Trying to get us a community organizer. If you guys have anybody in mind or anybody who can engage in youth on this, I mean, just, you know, hit me up, you know, I do. And we can work together, you know, more is better than one, to me, when it comes to these things. Yeah. Let's try to get our team together. I'll work on that. I'll also work on notifying all the actors, getting them on their A-game. I don't know if maybe I'll hold like a pre-read to the read, just to, you know, get everybody, get everybody's feet wet. Yeah. It's been a while. And it's been, you know, for us as artists, it's a tough time. Yeah. Let's get back in, you know, let's get back in. Let's get that blood rushing. I think it'd be really good to hear their opinions on their character, but overall the story, because they have to connect to the subject matter in order to really portray the characters. And understanding how it impacts them and how it impacted those individuals. And I can't wait to move on with this. Yeah. I'm excited about it. You feel, Jay? Oh, I'm very excited. I'm very excited to see you play that character. That's one of the reasons why I'm excited. This character is absolutely wonderful. Yeah. Do we need anyone else, any other actors? I think we're fully casted. Okay. Perfect. We might be. I'll go over it again. I think we're pretty, I think we're casted. Okay. Just let me know if we're not, because we're starting back to class, I can probably pull a student or two. Okay, cool. I would definitely love that. Okay. All right. All right. Thank you both. Thank you. Have a good one.