 But truth be told we're not feeling that unappreciated in this conference There's Jeff who's done a two-day workshop on story mapping. There was an hour on user stories I mean, that's not so bad so What we'd like to do It works out quite nicely because none of the points we make have been really covered by the other sessions and they complement each other quite well Okay, and we thought we'd invite Ganesh because he's a marvelous fellow He's the remover of obstacles the legendary scribe the patron of arts and science and of Intellect and wisdom is that appropriate? That's very appropriate. So Ganesh is with us and We're going to tell you a tragic comedy About how agile really screwed up But we're working towards a happy ending and Of course stories are everywhere and everyone loves a good story not just kids and stories are how we relate our culture and Last night I will admit I did not stick around for the evening Plenary or the dinner. I was suffering from a case of what Americans call TMI Which is too much information So I left and in the newspaper was an ad for a dance at a temple and I said, okay So off I went to a little neighborhood temple It was lovely So the it was outdoors and all the all the families came with their little kids and the kids all sat in In front and the dancers I couldn't understand the the narration of course, but there was a lot of pantomime and I think although I'm not sure I think it was the story of Krishna who does all these tricks and he's very mischievous and then So there was one male dancer and four women and he kept playing jokes on them and they played jokes on him And at one point he jumps off the stage goes down and sits among the kids Who are just loving this so as the women dancers are looking for him he's hiding among the audience and You could watch this scene of the parents and the children They were all enjoying the storytelling in different ways and clearly the culture is getting Communicated okay, so Dave said he'd tell a story because he was a good fellow and he stayed here and worked So I said all right, what did I miss and he said oh well there were a lot of stories about cool code So just tell him a cool code story The cool code story is the cool code story. So there is absolutely nothing more boring than reading computer source code Especially if it's not yours Nevertheless we spent a wrapped hour last night listening to exactly that The interesting thing of course was is that we couldn't read the code, which was really cool because The stories were what mattered So we didn't listen to a presentation on cool code last night or even a demonstration of cool code We listened to stories about cool code and that was enjoyable and we learned a lot okay, and One aspect of storytelling so last night it was just one little bit about Krishna and the girls but when we put these different stories together One informs the next one so you get a contextualization of stories Which will then give you an entire? culture Okay, so and a story out of context is not nearly as an as informative as a story in Context and this is exactly the same in our businesses We tell stories and in context they will give us a theory if you will about what that culture is all about So as a quick example, this is a little rubber ducky and it's a Vital part of the culture in Minneapolis. There's a the cray company So that little story is an example of how a company Transmits to the next generation its culture So one day it's it's a very nice building and it's got a park and as you go into the building There's a small, you know water fountain pond thing And one morning there is a little yellow rubber duck floating in the pond That day around noon all the employees get a memo Stating that little rubber ducks are unprofessional and We will no longer see little rubber ducks floating in the pond. We will be serious The next morning and the memo was sent by a rather new Rather uptight vice president who was there to manage The next morning that same pond had hundreds of little yellow ducks and That vice president didn't last long So this this the yellow duck story is told as part of the culture and enculturation in Minneapolis, so yes every year they have an annual ducky days, which is the company picnic which celebrates this Duck races all kinds of fun things and now they're in a big building with a real lake All right, and suddenly the room got full so let's give a minute to Get people in here and settled well a little extra drama never hurt Well, what you what you've missed really as a very general statement that Stories are everywhere and it's our main mode of Transmitting cultures from one generation to another and I just told a little story about a yellow duck The second main point that we really want to explore with you is the idea that stories are incredibly Powerful they're not silly. They're not a waste of time They're incredibly powerful and I'd like to this is a quote from Roger shank Who's written a great deal about storytelling and he identity this is his definition of intelligence So to be intelligent is to have something worthwhile to say and To know how and when to say it to those who need to hear it interesting definition of intelligence and The easiest way to say something to someone else and how and when is through stories So as we've gone through this seminar, how many of you have been here for four for all both tracks management or quite a few So over the days, I've been watching speakers and The audience and it's been interesting to see Which ones were using the stories which ones were not? So Linda's here. I was quite impressed. I heard not all of Linda's but two of Linda's on the one on Stereotyping and prejudice and then one on how we can't estimate anything and How effective they were because one she told stories But two she told stories in a way which allowed the audience to tell stories to themselves about themselves and laugh at themselves and marvelous Form of education. So in terms of intelligence, let me break this down a bit with you one of the main things is with Stories stories are evocative So they're not a set of facts they Bring all kinds of things to mind. They maintain ambiguity. You can Interpret them differently So they allow us to remind ourselves of things and to generalize So in Linda's example the stories of the two the the 12 year olds at camp and the two groups of 12 year olds who got real Connected and us and them and then how the camp leaders change that so we can take that story and Remind ourselves of our own childhood generalize it So let me tell you a story and then we'll see what it reminds you of This is a Japanese story about two Zen monks and The two Zen monks were very pure celibate poor and They were walking along the river one day And as they walked along the river and it had rained heavily so the the water had risen They're walking along the river and they come across a beautiful geisha The geisha wants to cross the river but the the water is too high. She cannot get across So one of the Zen monks picks her up in his arms Carries her across the river Sets her down Returns and continues on his walk with his companion a Miler to down the stream The companion says how could you have done that and the first one said My my my I Put her down several miles ago You're still cowering her So there's a very ambiguous story. What does it remind you of? How could you use that story? any volunteers To let go of things To recognize that you have not let go of things fine anyone else yeah The spiritual side of something is more important than the physical aspect of it lovely and very different Anyone else yeah That's unbeatable the more you hold it the more it hurts So if as a managers and as in working groups a well-selected story has a lot of mileage in it a Story is also the best thing we have to increase our memory So compare the queen dies the king dies the king died and Then the queen died of a broken heart Which one are you going to remember? The second one because you put them together. They're connected. So stories are recall them like fish bones And if you can remember one bit of it it will pull and to the surface other bits of it So a story form is always more memorable than a set of facts or a non-story form They also allow us to think less so What is this picture of? The emperor's the story the emperor's new clothes. Okay. How many of you know the story? okay, so You're having a conversation and you don't even have to have a long conversation. You just say that king is naked and Worlds are communicated so During the break. I was talking to Linda and we're chatting away and Linda says well No tilting that one mills That's all she needed to say and A world of information was communicated. So what story was she referring to? Don Kildee who was a bit crazy and kept attacking windmills So we can use these story captions To convey worlds of information very succinctly and we can use common skeletons so There was one I think it was actually Linda's So the the Indians do much better the American divorce rate is 50-50 you get married you have 50% chance You'll stay married 50% chance. You'll divorce So there are a lot of divorces right and we have to tell stories about our divorce your divorce his divorce your divorce and So we just have skeletons Which allow us to Not go into the detail of each one. We just find a skeleton to hang it on oh well His failing manhood and he needed a younger woman That's all you need to say Or this one well, what do you expect all men are jackasses? So we use these skeletons to very efficiently Convey great deals of information and we also use them through to Retell stories which are small Analogies, this is actually a true story, which I will tell you that is my mother And My mother at the age of 90 said I want a computer She actually didn't want a computer She was very annoyed that all the children and there are five of us. We were all communicating by email which left her out and Someone had to think to go and inform her and my mother being a bit of a drama queen Wants to be the center of attention So what she really wanted was not a computer, but to be in on the family stories stuff So we get her a computer and After us one of our favorite family stories She doesn't understand the computer and she says So who do I write to? To tell them that I really am not in the market for a 10-inch penis She could not comprehend a System where there was not a boss To whom you could write and say I don't want this or that But a decentralized Network was beyond anything she could actually comprehend So with using stories like this you can make analogies between one person and another and again communicate quite effectively and We also use stories especially with with management when you're really trying to convey wisdom You can do so much with stories My favorite American wise man might be Mark Twain Who could give you in one line stories a world? So for example, he said ah, yes, I remember When I was 16 and my father knew nothing By the time I got to 18 he'd really learned a lot so again, we use these stories to quickly and easily convey things and Those of you who are in the business side You also know that there are a number of management techniques which are story-based and one of the most effective planning tools or the business scenarios and Some of you may know that that was first started in the early 70s Actually, the key date was 73 when there was the oil crisis and at that time Shell was playing around with the storytelling techniques of telling of asking the top management Come up with what if stories what if this happened? What would we do and how would we know that that was happening? So in this technique which the shell then went through one of the stories that they made up was well, what if the oil countries got together and Started to set prices What would we do and what would be the early signs that would tell us this was in the works and In 1973 shell actually said That's not likely But the management technique was to use the discipline of telling the story and Then working it through what would be early signs? What would we do and the fact that they had actually gone through? this method this technology when in fact it did happen it put them way ahead of the other oil companies So in shell they put that storytelling technique down as one of the foundations of their their current strengths But what about you guys? What happened in agile? Well, we found on the whole that agile screwed up They had the opportunity for stories and didn't take it where it needed to go I'll turn it now over to Dave because he's the agile guy I'm not but we know that agile needs stories You gonna you want this? Yeah, that fellow might know Okay, you need stories as an agile developer or you need stories as any kind of a developer because it's the only way you're going to find out What it is that you have to do? If you ask a user for a set of requirements or tell me specifically and exactly what you want You're going to get a work of fiction, but it's not a story has no content It's just a bunch of words in a list If you go to the customer and tell me what are you doing today? What's your problems? What are you encountering? They're going to give you a story. They're going to tell you a story about their life And then you're going to be able to Elaborate on that story or interact with them talk through that story and find out the details and specific things that you can then act on You'll also find out which things are really important to act on Because you can tell from the story what really matters or what is really of interest to the person There's a variety of other things that they come in so we have this this notion of stories right from the beginning of agile We're going to tell user stories instead of doing requirements Cool, what does the user story look like? Well, it's a narrative on a three by five card. Okay, cool What does the story look like? What is in the story? What is not in the story? That was not cool We had no idea what to do with those things because nobody ever taught us anything about telling stories Nobody ever taught our customers anything about telling stories We have been training our customers for 50 years Don't tell me anything except the facts just the facts ma'am Nothing more nothing less. That's all I want from you You know don't embellish it with anything else The fact that a story is supposed to create or redress a power imbalance It is supposed to bring us closer together to our customers Instead of separating us on this with this big contract in the middle So we need the stories and we were told to do stories and We were told to do this Tell me a story. Well, a story has a lot of metaphor in it Can't have a metaphor and a requirement just a fact something that the computer can understand It should have mystery. It should have ambiguity because a story is an Invitation to explore a problem set that neither party understands So we start telling stories. We start using metaphors. We start to think about what it is that we want to do This is where we started in Agile And then we went to this Because we were uncomfortable or didn't know how to deal with stories per se We reduced them continuously in various different ways Through various definitions until we get down to a template that basically yields a story or excuse me yields a requirement nothing nothing more nothing less and Then we find ourselves surprise surprise in the exact same situation as the waterfall people We've got a bunch of things that are called user stories, which are really requirements. They don't really fit either category and They're useless if I'm going to tell a story. I don't say as a Student I want the system to do X So that I can why I put it into a story narrative form with an author With the client a perspective of vocabulary the vocabulary is supposed to come from the domain It's the other thing we've trained our users to give us in their requirements is Vocabulary which reflects our world and not theirs So a good story would be something like The students that are in this online class they want to know who else is there Who else can they communicate and talk with and be able to select from them and initiate a conversation with them? Doesn't sound at all like a template a story, but it's rich with interesting things You can't deconstruct the story So you can find the characters These are potential objects that you may have to build at some point or another Props which are also kinds of objects, but they are playing a passive role They are service providers rather than actors in this particular kind of a story these are other actors and This happens to be an action, you know, I want to chat. What do you mean by a chat you say? Find out sit down with a student and find out what they mean ask them to elaborate and contextualize and elaborate and Expand the story it is sometimes useful. This looks a little bit more comfortable to Computer types is perfectly fine to visualize a story This happens to be a very sparse kind of visualization A much better thing would be to draw me a picture of your environment and show me a bunch of happy kids on online classes talking to each other but my artistic capabilities are rather sparse and So I resort to these kinds of things But again, it's just a way of visualizing a story. We have an airport traffic controller That is responsible for making sure no air no two airplanes collide Okay, the airport traffic controller has an airspace. He says hey airspace What kinds of airplanes are existing in your area at the moment? You know, how many airplanes do you contain? Who are they? Let me talk to them one at a time, please Hey airplane number one. Where are you? You know, I haven't thought about that lately. I've been traveling and I've been moving from place to place I have no clue where I am at the moment But I know who does Hey instrument cluster Can you compile or can you put together a location for me and the instrument cluster says sure I can do that I don't really know how to do that but I know how to Ask the right people so I say hey instrument altimeter. How high are we and Then I ask the airspeed controller You know, how fast are we going? I ask the compass, you know, what is our direction? What is our vector and I get answers back and these are just little numbers and I say Direction or excuse me location object Please hold these numbers and send them back to the airplane so that it can report them to the air traffic controller The airplane says sure gets the stuff back says hey location, please add my name to your list of values And I will send it back to the air traffic controller So by telling a story of that sort I am identifying exactly how I should decompose my system how I should distribute responsibilities across the system how I should distribute knowledge or data across that system and Remarkably enough it becomes incredibly simple There is no object in that story that is doing anything really difficult really hard Requires more than four or five lines of code To actually requires more than one or two lines of code To accomplish its task So I get an immense amount of power from telling a story and making sure that the story makes Narrative sense and then mapping my design onto that story And this is just a way of visualizing it up on a whiteboard has no value anywhere else But this too then becomes a story For you So now you have this really big complex story day in the life of the of the airport And you have a whole bunch of these little individual stories And that's your product backlog because you've been asked to automate the airport build an air traffic control system So now you have all these little stories and you've got a big product backlog up here and This team over here is working on one story and this team over here is our grand other story But this thing is still up on the whiteboard So it's an evocative trigger that remembers or recalls to mind even if you don't remember the details You look at that you say aha and you go back and It brings back into your mind the story and then you can proceed with your work So it's giving you an instant context And the user story on its three by five card does the same thing. It's not in terms of syntax. Yes But and I can even You know, I can even play with the syntax to make the story more expressive So I could put a little circle here at the end of this arrow Which means a loop so the story is the the one The control tower sends a message to the airspace and the airspace to ask how you know the airplanes that are in it And he gets back a collection of airplanes So now I'm going to ask that collection of airplanes for the next Deiterate across itself and give me each airplane one at a time That story starts to sound kind of long and involved You know airplane number one airplane number two plus the fact I don't know how the story ends because I don't know How many airplanes are in there? So I just put a little circle up here and says The airspire that this collection is going to iterate and give me up all the stories that I need So I can embellish the syntax to do things but only That allows you to be more expressive in your storytelling Not so that it fits a UML template Okay, take the word requirement out of that sentence and say it again Really take the word requirement out of there and say you're you know ask your question again or make your comment Yes, so until I responded to his question. I talked about the airspace. I didn't talk about a collection Okay, so so he was saying that I'm using things like objects and collections and so on But yes, so actually I again if I want to if I want to really tell a big story I Can tell the story and then I can say there I put a little square box here instead of circle and The and then I put a label on it and it's basically says see story X So I can nest and embed stories and I can tell really elaborate things If you ever have the opportunity there's a novel called the historian by Custova is her last name, and I think it's Elena, but I'm not positive It is a story It's a big thick book. It's a story of a young girl off to find her mother Her mother disappears one day and she's going to go find her Her mother is off hunting of the Empire. She don't know that for a while So she sets off on her quest at every point in her quest She encounters somebody that helps her go forward and that person helps her by telling a story Sometimes it's her father sometimes it's some other character So she goes to a library in Istanbul and she hears the story of Vlad the Impaler and how he invaded Istanbul and All of this to find a book Which she eventually finds but so it says these nested stories is the way that we tell big stories And you can put it in the syntax if you want to Again if it helps you tell a better story and yes, you don't use Your vocabulary use his vocabulary, you know the domain experts vocabulary And if you do these kinds of things you will have a happy ending Everybody will have a happy ending your customer will get in fact exactly what it is that they want You will get things that make your job a lot easier You'll write a lot less code, which means you're going to write a lot less buggy code Which means that ten years from now There's not going to be standing someone standing up in this room I guess it was and pointing out all of this idiotic legacy code That nobody that everybody wrote without paying attention to what you were told to do so So there will be a happy ending. I missed a story in here somewhere. So this is Okay. Yeah, so let me Where'd our beer go we had beer here a minute ago We had a slide with beer on it keep going Okay There it is So Story a good story has these characteristics There's always a point of view Who's telling the story and why? So I told you the story about my mother my mother would tell it differently, wouldn't she? Of course you There's a theme is the theme clear There's invariably a hero or protagonist a main character and You don't have to like the hero or the main character, but you have to be able to somehow Empathize with them. So I was talking to this gentleman here is from Sweden And of course everyone has read the girl with the dragon tattoo So you don't have to like the young woman Understand You've had a hard life. So of course the kind of difficult So there's got to be some ability to empathize with the main character The main character interacts with the past characters So you have interactions which form a plot and then there's definite outcome So these are if you take it a degree in English Literature You're reading and you're analyzing stories for these characteristics And if you're an aspiring novelist your writing stories paying attention to these characters and In fact in software, that's precisely what you should be doing But you go blind because no one ever teaches you about heroes and plot and outcome so Let's just think over the last but three four days To whatever you've been here What has been the most memorable story? That you'd be willing to share with us and let's just look at it to see if it has these characters You've heard lots of stories over the last few days all kinds of stories Big one where you say that's an interesting story I Can learn from that you want to go? Okay, let's go for that. So how many heard that story a few but not enough All right, so well Linda's here. She's talking to a better than I can't find a star This was a research really old like 68 58 They took 12-year-olds Who were quite similar? They were kind of lower-middle class They were all white. They were all Protestant. They were just a bunch of pretty similar kids they divide them into two groups and We find that the two groups they quickly become groovy So you guys who look like you guys think okay? This is our code name and We're a tribe and we don't like them Because they live over there So they're the enemy And and what Linda was saying is more hard-wired to do that And we're hard-wired. This is a good thing to kind of get along in a group unfolds About how about that transformation each group becomes a tribe we fight and then the camp leaders Have to create overarching problems to solve Which will then they bring the two groups together Okay, so Go at it. So what was it? Let's just go down. What are our qualities there? What was the point of view? Part of you was an observer of the experiment Actually Yeah, so we've got an outside of Berber and we've got a theme of this is a social experiment They're really studying the behavior of these kids and they're running Scientific Experiment and messing around with behaviors to see the results that they're going to get So the point of view and the theme are really about Scientific methods. What can we learn about social behavior? And then after telling you the story Linda saying well, what does that tell you? You're not 12 years old You're not from Oklahoma You're just like that So it's the scientific Hypothesis which is a theme is based upon other things like Lord of the Flies or Animal Farm, how do we come to be separate and unequal in different kinds of things and this is a long literary tradition of this kind of a story and the Hypothesis would not have any power As a scientific experiment if you did not have this other kind of theme and context to try and explain with the experiment Because it was a good story If they all think it like How much we are just like the 12 year olds In our office setting and how much we can learn from that story But it was memorable because it was a good story so this is what we really would like to encourage you to work on and In the coming weeks and days is to get beyond this kind of environment And to think all right. Have I got a point of view? Have we got a plot here? Have we got an outcome? Why am I telling this? Is it to convey wisdom? Is it to Be evocative? Is it to be memorable? But it's getting clear on Why you do the story and how you will construct a good look There's no hero in this story, but there is a villain the villain is the scientific researchers Who are doing evil things that they would no longer be allowed to do? But it's reminiscent of another kind of a story. They you know the cruel indifferent objective scientists story Jenny and I are both anthropologists one of the earliest anthropological studies was in France and They took little kids and put them in cages next to wild animals I mean they took infants and put them in cages next to wild animals and they were fed and Reacted with exactly like all the other animals in the zoo and the idea was is civilization innate or not innate Is the scientific answer sufficient to justify that kind of cruelty to a human being? probably not We have a story about that Yes Although it wasn't very nice to these kids. There was a hypothesis and an attempt to set it up to actually find out and The main thing I got from Linda's books which you talked to Linda that I heard Was that in the software world? We actually don't push that culture of that set something up systematically, so we find out We just say oh, let's experiment in the sense of well mess around But you know messing around is not Let's do this and compare it with that and see what kind of outcome we can So now I get to talk about beer A story has a narrative has an author it has a point of view So how you tell a story is important and this is really important for people who are designing software So I have collected you all together and I am running this brewery slash bottling plant So I am brewing a whole bunch of really really excellent beer over here I wanted to get into bottles and eventually I want to distribute it so that it's consumable Your your choice is to Build that implement that So the very first thing you have to do is a storyteller and saying okay What is the story of this this brewery as a whole? so Up here on the mezzanine above the that's where you can't see it as a big control panel that monitors the brewery floor You have vats of beer Inside of those are beer you have all these bottles and bottling devices capping fillers Labelers Washers all these kinds of things you have a mug of beer and over here you can imagine a consumer So pick from those different kinds of things and tell the story of what's going on in that brewery And you'll get very different understanding of what it is that you have to build So you can think about that you know who is the narrator of who is the appropriate narrator for this story? From whose point of view should it be told on? Whose behalf does that brewery exist? I mean the whole system exists for to serve somebody answers guesses So the customer the person who needs a tall cool one the investor that The control panel Okay, tell me that story Yes That's the a good way to do it your computer geeks you're supposed to sit and say oh from the control panel I mean, that's the software that you have to write right So the control panel is control of keeping track of all these dumb machines down there on the factory floor and figuring out all Possible scenarios for getting things back and forth, and you'll write a command and control program That'll be this long right if you don't get the story, right And doing Of course Yeah, so there's there's Plus just the the control logic for all of the possible permutations of everything that could go wrong in that brewery Is a big program So how are they going to use it though? What is their story? their story is I Am responsible for this big thing and I need to be kept informed of if there's a problem or if everything is going smoothly So all I need to ask from the control panel is everything. Okay, or If something goes wrong, let me know two very simple Stories and that's that's the extent So the relationship between the control panel and the user is just those two things. There's nothing more Yes, and yeah, you can do that and you're going to end up again, you know trailing data long data stream coming back and The behavior is not going to be where it needs to be in order to be simple So yes, you could you can do a typical top-down decomposition and and call it a set of stories However, it won't work Last thing self-serving Jenny and I are have published a paper. It's on the website along with the slides For this deck called patterns of story craft It's the start of a book on the same subject And it has a number of things that tell you how to be a better story writer So how to decide who is the narrator or the author of the story the point of view of the story It's a heuristic called primary client so Particularly in an object world. It's all client server I mean, it's it's a instead of a client server or a three-tier client server. It's an end-tier client server so every object should be providing services to somebody else and you can You can kind of just you know tell stories about we know what it what do I do as a as a bottler Or I was a capper. I well I put caps on bottles. Well, how do I know when and how to do that? You know when the bottle is there asking for a cap and Then you just kind of follow that chain From many different points of view until you start to see there's a trend But this is the person who is the ultimate primary client and that's where it gets tricky because you really only have Two choices as you follow these trails come down to the control panel or the beer and you're gonna be really really tempted to use the control panel Because it looks I mean it is in a sense. It is monitor. It is tracking everything, but it's just an observer the service that it provides is The fact that it knows where everything is and what its state is at a given point in time So it can be a global resource that anybody else can ask for help So if you think of what are the services it provides it points away from itself so you The the data shows up much later after you've told your story and you're starting to think about implementing it So you say okay? Yeah right So now I know that I am a capper and I have to Put a cap on a bottle. What do I need to know to do that? I need to know that there's a bottle They're asking for a cap It's the only thing I need to know so you're you do not you no longer have data you have knowledge The the knowledge that the thing requires to do what it is expected to do Will hear it and that will tell you Because many stories you can tell them differently just by changing the point So it's that basic definition of intelligence. What do you want to say? To whom and then you say okay? Here's the best way to offer up So your choice of the memorable story about kids and then Linda made decisions This is what I want to say. This is my audience How am I going to present that story and they're different ways to prevent it? But she made choices According to that first question Why am I telling this to whom and then how I'm investing? I Was supposed to happen in the use case. Yes There will be many in the book and we're actually technically out of time so Well, but I mean, but we did post this article which gives you patterns for writing stories Well, this one you probably recognize So one story and form other stories Is you are you're constructing in that so each one makes the other If it's very useful to write a story about why something is there how it began Last comment Last comment dealing with this this notion of the use case So we have used scenarios We've talked about scenarios in this business since the 70s which telling a story about what's what's wanted and what's needed We talk about user stories In in agile again talking about stories I've our Jacobson came along and said I want something that is more formal That strips the mystery strips the characterization. I want just the bare bones facts And and he actually refused he says a use case is not a scenario For precisely those kinds of reasons that scenarios and stories have all kinds of stuff That was irrelevant for a use case as As it was conceived so that's why a use case can be a vehicle just like the interaction diagram for picturing a story or describing a story But I will bet you you will not use it as such Because you will follow the instructions for a use case, which is not a scenario according to the author, I Didn't hear I'm sorry Sooner or later. Yes, you're going to yeah, so the the question is that There will be a point in time So if you're trying to understand what it is that you want to build if you want to do design About who's going to do what and how your modularization is going to work and all this sort of thing you need stories Then you have to sit and say okay now How am I going to implement this story on the computer and at that point you may engage in a translation? What you should find out that is if you have told the stories well the the translation is going to be very simple very direct very straightforward and and So if you if you have a really complicated use case Means you didn't tell your stories well enough and didn't do your design well enough So okay, we're over time. So it's on the website with all the PowerPoint slides from all the presentations Yeah