 Good evening and welcome to Montpelier Civic Forum and as we march towards Town Meeting Day 2020, we'll do what we've always done for years. We're going to talk to all of the City Council candidates, we're going to talk to the school board candidates, we're going to have the city budget and we're going to have the school budget. And basically this is going to be an interesting year. We have for the first time in a long time. We have a district with two races and that's district three and that's what we're going to be discussing tonight. And Watson will be in running for mayor, unfortunately running unopposed because I'd like to see two people. Connor and Donna will be running in their respective districts. They'll be on together as incumbents. I think that will be interesting. We have two school board members who are incumbents and then we have the people who are running for school who basically will be elected. So we're going to have them in together as well and Libby and Bill will be in talking about their budgets. This is going to be a good series. But tonight I'm in with I'm in district three and I'm in the two-year term and I have Eugene Leon with me. Did I pronounce the last name correctly? What part of district three do you live in? So I'm right on the other side of the river on Berlin Street. You mean on the Speedway? On the Speedway which we proactively were involved, you know, the community there to try to reduce the speed limit. Can you tell me your role in that? Well, I submitted to Tom at Public Works. Tom McCartle who used to be a public worker. Who just stepped down, yeah, retired. My concern when I moved there three years ago, I bought a house, a brick house up on Berlin Street and noticed that this is a hazardous situation. Why was an answer a situation for you? Yeah, people are speeding. I know for kids. Roadkill, you know, there's pedestrian crosswalks. There's bus stops, school bus stops, public school bus stops, and plus the pedestrian crossways. And a bike path and a sidewalk. So it's a neighborhood. It's every dollar characteristic that any other neighborhood in Malpelio has. And why is this a highway, basically? And people just speeding on all hours. And I raised my concerns, followed the petition, a concern. Two years later, I'm at Bill's office, Bill Fraser, City Manager. Yes, why isn't this on the table? So it just so happens that that summer, last year, it was addressed. And I gathered the community, raised awareness. Tom from the bridge did a, yeah, he did a story on it. And I did my own data. I bought a velocity speed gun to track. And I would take pictures of all the speed. So everyone, the average speed was 40, 45, at the time 35. So what was it like getting out of a driveway? It's not too bad on my driveway, but I could, you know, I could see the concern for, there's a lot of side roads. Heber and Sherwood and Wilson and Valerie and what's, there's a few. There's quite a few. And, you know, getting into, on to Berlin Street or into some of these tight driveways is also a problem. So my, my driveways is pretty good. But yeah, in the winter, it's hard with the banks, the snow banks. What were both sides on that argument? I know it wasn't the unanimous vote. It wasn't. What was the other side? You know, I understand some people raised concern on when there's snow. It's a hill, going up the hill. So I say to them, you know, on those small number of days, it might have just started snowing. You mean gaining sufficient speed? Gaining some speed. So it's okay to step on the, on the gas in that, in that moment, you know, and to get up the hill. I didn't see any valid, strong, in the opposition points made. I mean, I know one of the council members said something that was quite disturbing as far as, you know, well, I can't, I have to, so I have to step on the brakes every time I'm on the road. But it's the same thing with Baldwin, Main Street used to be 35. In the 90s, it was dropped to 25. The citizens there wanted, you know, the same traffic calming. Correct. So it happened then. Why can it happen on Berlin Street? This is a neighborhood with a lot of new families moving in. Seniors that have been there for a long time. There's, you know, it's, it's a, it's part of the, you know, having a safe and healthy public. District three has a different character than district one and district two. You mean because of the location? Yeah. Can you talk about district three? Well, there is this part of district three that's here on Main Street. Right. Yeah. Cut off. And it's for population. The district three, the majority of district three, which I call the Berlin Street area and that, and then up to Northfield Street. I, I, I want that district to also feel that it's part of the city and part of Montpelier not separated. How does it not feel? Or do people feel alienated a little bit? I, you know, when I was going door to door and, you know, talking about the speed limit and when it was in the public hearings and we're, and we rallied to get, I did feel sense that, that they were kind of excluded. Like, why are we the only street left that's, you know, 35? What other streets were and are 25? Here's an example, the national life, which is not a neighborhood going up to the same kind of steepness going up. That's 25 and they're closed on the weekend, you know. So, and there's a lot of these streets, you know, Baldwin Ave, College Street going down, downhill. You have to ride your brakes on Main Street. You have to ride your brakes on all these other streets. So you do it in Berlin Street. It shouldn't be a problem. So, so we're going to want to work on getting a, I know some of the other council members mentioned doing a city-wide 25, like Barry did. Young Mayor Barry, when they asked him what his greatest accomplishment was, was, he said in a recent interview, getting a city-wide 25. He said, what was his biggest challenge? He said getting people to drive 25 in the city. So it would be nice to have a city-wide 25. There's only a couple streets left, basically. Is 302 25? Yes. So when you're getting into Barry, by the, well, I'm talking about our part of 302 over, over by, I think we go all the way to 35, correct. Yeah. Right. Oh, we go by the wayside. That's still Montpelier and tractor supply is still Montpelier, all the way to what used to be Walker Volkswagen. Oh, right. Is that 25 or 35? 35. Okay. Sherwood is a steep hill going down that's 25 that goes into, right there into wayside. Yeah, but keeping that, I mean, keeping cars going at 25 is probably the challenge. Well, it takes, you know, bad habits. Would you see traffic calming on Sherwood? Bumps to keep people from racing down there? Well, we have the plow issue with the bumps. So it takes a little bit of enforcement and education and, you know, signs. You know, what works is that some of the neighbors are requesting it is the flashing. So it tells you your speed and flashing every going too fast. That's an effective way to, you know, because we all have to check our speed. We all sometimes forget. Sometimes I'm driving down and I might, you know, have to press my brakes so that I might, you know, forget that it's, you know, have to slow down. It's the neighborhood. So that's a good start. I think to those, you know what I'm talking about. Right. Yeah. The flashing. And then the pedestrian crosswalks, I think adding another one a little further up on Berlin Street and making that a little more clear like on Elm Street. The Elm Street pedestrian crosswalks have a flashing light. There is a flashing. As they do downtown? Correct. Well, Elm Street also has the speedometer signed with the flashing. Yeah. So that would be wonderful. District 1, the defining elements of District 1 are on Elm Street. We have the rec center, the rec pool and the rec fields. We have Hubbard Park, of course. District 2 has the green on College Avenue. Yeah. The college. Exactly. Is there any place that you could see for adding public space to District 3? Yes. And I've brought this up recently on a public meeting with the mayor that we looked at in the map of the region. Off Heber, there's a small parcel that the city owns that was land trusted, conserved lands. And that could be... A pocket park? Excuse me? A pocket park? Yeah. That could be the Berlin Street area park. Is that... Now, I'm going to take you into the weeds. On Harrison Street, there's a small area that was deeded to the city by Heaton Woods across from Temple Beth Jacob that the schools use for soccer and things like that. Is it that size or is it smaller? Don't quote me on this, but it might be around... People access it now. It might be five acres. Oh, it's that big? Yeah. There's trails back there. But it would just be as simple as... It wouldn't be anything on the budget, really. Just to put a sign saying the name of the park, City of Montpelier, a few stands for the dog, clean up after your dog with the bags, and the picnic table or two. That's basically it. Have the neighbors, other than you, stepped forward on this? No, I brought this up recently and thought it was a fabulous idea. So this is something I look forward to. So you think else in District 3 that you'd like to see is any other defining projects in District 3? I think besides the sign and the speed limit in those areas and the park, I think, that's a good step for now. I used to talk when Anne was... Well, I'm sorry, Ashley. When Ashley Hill was City Council person and running, we would discuss the economic development of that area on River Street. Okay, on River Street, yeah. And Montpelier Alive has a charge from the state for the core downtown. That is why their funding exists. They can't reach out to that area by their charter. So anything we can do to incorporate that area? Those are family businesses and as people who watch this now... Some are residential, that's also... You mean on the main drive on River Street? Yeah, yeah. Where we have the paint stores, where we have Aten, that whole series, all the way to Growlers. It's a great question, yes. Yeah. I mean, as people who watch this know, my wife has downtown business in the core downtown, but that strip right there, is there anything that you could see the potential? Yes. What is the potential for that? Well, for some more businesses and shops. It's tough because there's a lot of vacancies now, right now in downtown Montpelier and that's something, I mean, that's gotta find a creative, get an insight on what could be done about getting folks to... What is your vision downtown? The downtown plan. Let's go to that while you brought up downtown. I got some notes, okay. Sure. Feel free. What is your vision for commercial downtown Montpelier? Well, it's so downtown because there's the savings pasture. Right, that's different. And then, of course, we have the new development. We have Distillery Lane next to Bar Hill. And you know, the transit center, I went to the opening of that. It was an amazing, well-accomplished, well-planned project. And I know for housing and having the buses go through there now, which is also a really, I think it was a well-thought-out way of diverting traffic because they were all on Main Street. And now having it go that way, I sense that there's a little bit of a less of an impact on Main Street because of the bus. The bus is not stopping now in front of Shaw's. And the Greyhound now could go... Well, in theory, the Greyhound still stops in front of City Hall, but eventually the Greyhound will stop. And the other tour buses as well. I mean, the pad is there. There is next to the building. I know some people have read or misinformed or did not see the initial plans that the pad is there for the larger buses to pull right alongside the building. Again, when Greyhound gets the word, from what I understand, our public works is negotiating with Greyhound on that issue. And possibly you'll still have a few cold winter days when eventually people will be able to sit in that transit center, waiting for the Greyhound instead of standing in front of City Hall. And it's a great welcome, it could be a welcome center. That small area there inside, they have a vending machine up, that would make a great little cafe, coffee and something quaint. And as a welcome to the City of Montpelier. Have you been keeping up with the downtown master plan discussions? A little bit. And I did have some notes. Could you fill us in a new thinking on that? As well as traffic calming on Main Street? Well, I think the transit center helped on that, not having the buses right on Main Street, especially during traffic hour. Also the farmers market that's still up in the air as far as where is it going to be? Well, I think that's been decided that they're going to use the area right across from the transit center in front of the wood chip plant. The state parking lot will be used for that. During the winter Bar Hill is hosting it. Yes, and I've been up there and I'm glad they're hosting it. They're not charging every other weekend. It's a great venue. But when it moves permanent, it will move there, which of course takes us across. What are your thoughts on that? Well, there's the parking lot debate, which I was just going to add. So that's, you know, there's an impact on traffic. And I'm at 100% certain on where the hotel plan is to go. Well, the hotel plan is hinged on the parking garage from when I gather. On that lot, which they just recently put. Hotel parking, which is open, but it's also partly public parking. I just read this morning in the news of a small town in North Carolina. Lake Town. They just passed the select board and city council just passed a temporary hold on growth, if you believe it or not, because... Well, they can ship some of that over to here, right? Well, it's, you know, a 15 minute commute within the last three years has become an hour commute. And so the growth was so, so much that they're trying to slow it down because of traffic because it wasn't well planned. So it's responsible planning. And like you had mentioned, well, that's a city thoughtful planning is essential. So you have to consider the traffic flow on any type of growth that's, you know, when you put 300 as an example, unit building somewhere along Barry Street, it's going to be a problem. You know, if all that traffic now is going to start going through the bridge or to back onto Barry to Maine. I asked this question of everyone who runs for city council. Is this a city or is this a town? Vermont as a whole is a town. It's just, Vermont is a small town as a whole as a, it's, where population is low. And 7500. What's that? 7500. We are the smallest city. Well, the city we all, yeah. So even Burlington, I don't, you know, that's the smallest, biggest city in the nation, correct? For a state. Right. Right. It's a town, but we are a city. How so? Well, because we're a city is corporated. Well, in a legal sense, yes. But in a sociological sense, what is, as a town, what is our strength? Well, we have the fact that we are the smallest capital in the country. And the only one with out of McDonald's? Which all makes it a unique experience, you know. And it's nice to have that appeal of, you know, Vermont lifestyle and small town, but yet it's a small city, you know, to at least call it a city. I think it's great that we have this small city in the capital region. And what makes it unique is that the state capital and the buildings, the shop, the history, you know, and the park is, and the recreation. You mean having, having that much anchorage in the core of town? Correct. Yeah. And, and all that's, that it's offered and still much more to offer, much more potential for growth and development. As far as I see, is potential for growth? Well, there's a lot of aging, you know, infrastructures like the rec center and, you know, certain streets, certain, maybe like in that region by area on district three, where you mentioned off River Street, you know, certain areas that can be developed, modernized and preserved also some of the maybe vacant lots or vacant lands that might belong to the city, you know, try to see, find creative and alternative means of, of trying to figure out, you know, what, how could it benefit the city and the people in the city and those who visit the city? Do you, since you've, how long has it been in Montpelier? In this area, six years now. Okay. Savings Pasture was an issue six years ago. Savings Pasture was an issue 16 years ago. Do you see anything being built on Savings Pasture? I, again, thoughtful planning. Yes, I think with thoughtful planning and it could, it seems glacial. It could be a, it's a beautiful area. I mean, it could be half preserved, you know, with trails and you know, hiking, bike paths and hiking areas and it's like a small hubbard back there, also a lot, also with maybe a small development housing community and with some retail as well. So it's basically expanding out a little bit with housing and commercial. What, what are the challenges that the city faces? You'd be sitting on console and every challenge in this town ends up eventually before console with people, you know, well, there's always going to, there's always challenges and there's always every meaning there's a challenge, it seems like. And I think public awareness, public insight, public feedback is very important. I mean, and intelligent and logical approaches to handling certain issues and problems along with creative and open ways to address them. But I think it's important that the public, having public feedback is essential. How would you increase, I know the city council in the last couple of years has really been focused on trying to, I wouldn't say the word inclusive because they've always tried to include us. We just have never stepped forward to be included as a community. How would you change the communications? You know, Fromport Forum is a pretty, is a great access, a way to find what's going on and hearings and people to attend that you can't force people to attend. But if I emphasize, I personally want to do a weekly kind of like blended on our district, the weekly, every Tuesday have a public, you know, and have actually has ours. Yeah, she does. I've gone to see. I'm there. Yeah. And yes, that's important to me, you know, to get public feedback and get people to come and they can be a voice at the public hearing, then they could share their concerns or, you know. What do you hear is the concerns of District 3? You've walked around, you campaign now, and when you go door to door, I still hear about the speed limit situation. So I think it's important to address that still and put that maybe get a citywide 25 back on the table. And people have shown concern about now the tax increase 4%. So it's something I hear a lot is taxes, you know, it's the taxes going up, everything goes up, gas goes up, you know, and wages aren't going up as, you know, so it's a concern that people do have, you know, the property taxes. And I just, it's also what, you know, there's certain things that people could do that they might not be doing, you know, are they filing their, you know, they're a full-time resident or they're filing their state pre-bate, you know, ahead of, you know, on time and are they being efficient in their homes with, you know, energy to help them save and cut back on other costs, on water, on, you know, all their alternatives that could help alleviate if there is a slightly increased tax. Well, this year's budget was unique because of the health costs. Correct. You'll hear that, and I know you, that that will be discussed in the show that, where Bill discusses a city budget, but not only that, that will be discussed in the show where Libby talks about the school budget, because both of those were really impacted by health insurance costs. Correct, yes, the health insurance cost. And that, that was beyond council's ability to control. Right. Is there something in the budget that's under-addressed, do you think? Under-addressed? Yes, there's something. I haven't seen the final figures. I was at the last hearing, I actually, and I want to thank Orga for, for presenting it every other week. So, I, there was been a couple times, I just couldn't make it, but I've been able to watch them live on YouTube. But do you think we're, is public works, police, fire, social services, is there something in the city budget that you think could use war attention? I think all the departments and the committees and some of the other departments that are represented by committees, I think we're well-addressed, you know, and, and as far as the aging infrastructures go and the idea for the news upgrading of the water treatment, so, you know, it was, the presentation was phenomenal and very detailed where we could make revenue from the energy that could be. Can I stop you for a second? Ann is discussing that on her show, she's running for mayor and Bill will be discussing that on his show in a lot more detail, because that is a story and that's a good story. It's a good story. You're right, it, it, it was a compelling story before council, and it's a compelling story on these shows as well. So, I think, you know, most of it was all addressed and, and some of it that was still up in the table, I think needs a little bit more polling as far, you know, public it's like the recreational, the building, building, you know, I think I went, I went to that public hearing, I was think the only person, I didn't see any other council members present, but it was, it was phenomenal and, and the presentation, yeah, the presentation was great and we got a tour of the building, it's been, hasn't been well maintained in the last, you know, so many years. Did they take you through the basement? Yes. The old shooting range, yeah, old shooting range. Yeah, it was pretty phenomenal. Did you see the crack in the wall? I did, I did, I saw it all and, and that we need, I still think we need more public opinion and feedback, you know, not just, well, five million dollars is a pretty hefty price. Really hefty and, and also as when I say creative and alternative ways, get other architects or other, you know, companies, points of views to bid or, or give consultation or give other, not just from not just one company or not just 10 percent of our population, you know, you have to consider that there's a gym less than five miles away at $10 a month and, and there's other gyms around. So do people want to pay? You know, do we want to set up another public bond for this? It's, it's, it's, that's a challenge, you know, the rec center. I would like to see more public opinion. Is it going to be supported by the community? You know, what, what's your thought on trying to square the circle on downtown speeding and we're in speeding again and we're talking about downtown on Main Street bicycles versus parking, proximate parking to the businesses versus bike lanes. Do you have any thoughts on that? Well, it's, you know, bikes. That's coming in the winter. It's a difficult, yeah, it's a difficult, but they're, they did it two years ago, coming from Barry and onto Berlin by the, where the, they've got that green lane over by, by Price Chopper. That's right. That was well made. That was well done. And that, that's something we could look into. But it is tight and narrow as it is. So it's it's maybe just that a certain small strips of downtown. We don't need it. And then once you get out of the center, then like they did in that Barry Berlin area, you know, then put those bike lanes in place. There's a $45,000 measure on the ballot, dealing with homelessness, dealing with the that was asked for by the homeless task force. What's your thought on homelessness and begging downtown and begging? That's a good question. Very good question. And it's, it's, and I've often thought of this because it's, that's a very challenging situation. You know, for, for instance, suddenly from one year to the next, you have 30 people hanging out in the city that are homeless. How do you deal with that in, in a respectful and honorable fashion and every, and I've actually sat and spoken to many of, of, of some of these folks who are, who are just been in the streets peddling. And every case is different and every situation is different. Well, I think we're picking up, but I think there are, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn on this. I think that the $45,000, a lot of it is going to a social worker. Right. So the, the task force will address the individuality of each case, instead of as this is a problem. No, because it is a problem, but we could address it one person at a time, you know, it's, and, and again, come up with, with a solution that, that everyone benefits from. I think we're also talking about regionalizing our approach to some degree. Good Samaritan at the Methodist Church, Good Samaritan, Barry, I think, Barry. Again, one, one organization only, one architect, we need to find other organizations that could come in and, you know, assess and, and give an insight and maybe also assist. And there's other nonprofits as well that could have dealt with these issues. You would see us being more collaborative. More collaborative as a community. You know, I am getting together with other cities and discussing like we are with Barry, though. Yeah. Boy, I almost hate to ask this, but I will, you came in with, with notes. Is there anything that you want to discuss that we haven't touched on? Well, you came so well prepared. Some of the interview questions that I just, you know, community prosperity. Like I said, I think public feedback is important. Working together as a community is, is essential. Well, we've been working on that for so long. For so long. Yeah. But we're a town. We're neighbors. Correct. And, and volunteers make the world a better place. So, you know, volunteers in the community make things happen, you know. Well, we've got that going in spades in our schools. Great. I mean, the number of people who volunteer in our schools is extraordinary. The number of work-adjusted work sites that Matt McClain gets, community-based learning sites that the kids in high school go to, for a community our size, really is extraordinary. So, communities come together and that, you know, in that department. But it's like, I volunteer at the Lost Nation Theater once in a while to help with the set design, the background, and whatever they need. And sometimes marketing, promotion, setting out letters and envelopes and getting out there to farmers market and passing out, you know, for this show. And you could do all that. And if only a handful of people show up after you just try to get thousands of people to show up. You have no control of that. And even though all the, it's up to the community to, to, to be a part of what's, what's in the community. To see itself as a community. And that's correct. And, you know, I try to support, you know, go to different, the co-op and different businesses all the time, you know. And it's, now you're a candidate who keeps up with the council, shows up at the meetings, watches the orca shows, understands to some degree what's involved in being a counselor. And it's not only sitting there on orca on a Wednesday night. It's preparing for it. All of those people sit on committees. And why in the world do you want to do this? I asked that. Nobody's getting rich. No, it's a great question. And people ask me all the time, well, I am Pat, you know, I have two children. And how old? They're 15. They just turned 15 and 12. And, you know, I care about my community where I live. I'm passionate about it. And, and if, and I feel like after the whole involvement with the speed limit, I've got to made a lot of friends and got a lot of support. And it was emphasized, well, you should run for council, you know. And I feel it's not like a duty, like a civic duty to be, to lead. I'm an Eagle Scout, you know, I was in Scouting for 25 years. And I just feel, you know, so there's a lot of community involvement in Scouting and in the country too, and different, a lot of merits that you have to, and studies that you have to accomplish to get to your, to the highest ranking. And it's the same, you know, leadership's important, having an open passion, care. And I think above all things love. You got to really love yourself, your city, where you live, your community, you know. And that's, when we talk about community, we talk about inclusivity, diversity and all. Do you feel that in some ways, Mount Pylir is becoming a gated community? If only by the amount of housing and the cost of housing and the cost of rental housing? Do you feel that way? Sometimes I do. Actually, you know, I do feel like many are being priced out. You can almost see it in the schools. The percent of subsidized school lunches has declined from when we came here, you know, years and years ago. You know, so yeah, that is a concern of mine. It's a concern of everyone. Yeah. Is there anything we can do as a community? I think we're doing it. I think we are trying, you know, we're talking about with the city's been trying to do and what's all, I mean, I'm from Port Forum. You're constantly seeing events and activities. And this week we have something coming up. It's, we have valentines stuff and dances and contra dances. Though the father-daughter dance. Yeah. There's a lot always going on. So it's all, it's there. You know, the churches are trying to do their own thing. They're doing the Harry Potter dinner coming up. I want to say there's something coming up this weekend, too. That's pretty big. You know, we had the last week, the, oh, the art, I haven't hear, the art show, the art walk is this week. Right. The art walk is this week. And then we had the festival down at some, some, the snow on. Exactly. Nice. Yeah. So there's always constantly, and you go to the club and you see on the, on the board, on the bulletin board, and it's, there's, I mean, you can spend an hour reading all the stuff that's going on. So it's getting people to come out and, you know, participate is. I have two final questions. Again, these are ones I ask every year. So if you were watching this last year, you know, this question's coming up. A consular present or past, not on console, that you would really model yourself after? Who would, who would be someone who is a city council person who you think that person got it right? I haven't been here long enough to, to have known all the councils. So it's hard for me to say, but. Anyone on the present council? No, I think everyone's pretty, it's here's the thing. I think on council, everyone's fresh. It feels like a new, even the mayor, you know, so out of the team, I call it, you know, this has to be a, to make it all, you know, we want a, a superstar team, you know, to make it really, like you said, it's worthwhile and, and effective and, and beneficial to, to everyone. So I think, and who's been there the longest has been Bill Frazier. Oh, absolutely. So I can really, you know, I respect and honor everything he's done and, and I think he's done a wonderful job and he's very insightful and he's, he's has the experience and he's been there the longest. So I would model, you know, he's the one that has, has been there the longest and is so well educated on, on the process and the city and, and its growth and its changes and, you know, and hopefully in its future. And then the final question is everyone on council brings something to that table. And there's a retreat after council is elected on town meeting day. They meet on a treat and they set their goals. And everyone states, this is what I would like to see different or this is my area that I would like to stake out. Would you have a defining project? And besides your park, besides the park and the speed limit and the speed limit, there's a lot of lists. Is there a passion that you would like to have? I'm also an artist. I'm a multi-media artist. So there's, and I had a, I did have permits and permission and where the old redemption center was, if you remember, that got toward, yeah, so that was a whole plan in place and never happened. That wall was totally disgusting. It was falling apart. So I was gonna with some of the, the, I forgot the, the resource teen center there. The youth build. There's a youth build. And through, you know, me as an artist, we're going to do this beautiful mural and make this area appealing and inviting and not this decaying wall. We got the permission. We got, so when I went to refile the permits to do it, gathered all the paints, spray cans, donations. The wall came down. Well, yes. And Bill was like, well, look at the plan. And there was supposed to be a building that was going to go. Right. With a new redemption center that never happened. Right. In fact, the city is still puzzling about since what I gather is that the Moat Trust doesn't want to build a building there now and we're puzzling what to do with that. It's like we got stood up basically on that project. And it's too bad. So let's remove the debris out of there first and the dirt and clean it up and then see what we're at with that. Would you favor another building there that would give us more economic development or a park that would be defining? Those are two different visions. Yeah. I mean, we don't have a, we just don't have a redemption center now. So it would be great. Well, we've got the Whitsco. We've got the area in front of Shaw's where you can take your bottles back. There is. They have, yeah, they have machines in front of Shaw's. All the machines, yeah. Right. Right. But again, that empty space on one hand, people are talking about a building that would be the same height as the drawing board. Correct. On the other hand, people are talking about a pocket park. The pocket park could exist right behind there, which already, there is one. Where the blind building used to be. Yeah. And by the bike path there, there's a pocket park, which could be expanded a little bit more. So yeah, that's something to really look at and determine with, you know, with the team. And of course, community feedback is an important, public, you know, feedback, I think for me. Montpelier is never short of public feedback. Sustainable infrastructure, you know, you want to talk to, well, you know, that's the. What about Ned Zero? Ned Zero. What's your feeling on that? Difficult to get to, but not impossible. Nothing's impossible. I think we could, we could get there. I mean, especially with, with that presentation that they had lost with, you know, generating energy that will go into the grid and then reducing costs for the city or eliminating Ned Zero. Right, right. Which is again, the sewage plant and the grant that they got that allowed them to jump into another step that they didn't think they were going to be able to do, which Anne will talk about in her presentation. That's good. And Bill will talk about in his presentation on the city budget. Inclusive community, I think we talked about more housing. Where would we have more housing? Well, the savings faster. Other than savings. Yeah, so there is some areas up on the district three also that, that are just vacant lots that have been up for sale for a long time that were part of a development up behind Heber that could continue back there. And there could be some, a nice development, nice affordable homes back there. I don't recall what the acreage is, but it would be near the park that I suggested. Maybe 30 plus acres back there. So there is room to grow and on River Street, you know, that There's areas outside Terrace way over that Alan Goldman owns that have been talked about possibly affording housing. Right. So yeah, absolutely. I think it's, but again, it has to be thoughtful, thoughtful planning. And, you know, if you could also get the buses people, I took the bus, bus the other day to Northfield. And it was, it was a great commute. I mean, it was fast, quick. I used the transit center, just picked it up. It was, it was, I think me and two other people. That's a shame. Yeah. Underutilized. Yes. But it's there, or at least it's there. And we have, and hopefully people, you know, will use it more often. Especially there's other outside communities that get developed, you know, so these buses could go into downtown into these areas. You mean seeing ourselves in a regional context. Yeah. So I mean, they go, they go into Berlin, right? They go into Barry, they do the loops. So it's, it's accessible. And it works. Well, I want to thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. For coming in and talking to us. Yeah. Thank you. This is Eugene Leon, who's running for district three, the two year term. And I want to talk to you now and say get out and vote on town meeting day. It is important. And it's important that we engage ourselves civically. And then not only means getting out and voting, but watch all the shows. Watch the show with Connor and Donna. Watch the show with the other candidates from district three. Watch the show with Ann. Watch the show with the school board candidates. The shows, I should say. And the show with Libby and the show with Bill talking about school and city budgets. Inform yourself and make sure your neighbors and family get out to vote on town meeting day. Thank you so very much for watching this.