 thing that I notice the most often is the you know getting through that I mean we have a very long especially in group it is a very long sale cycle yeah I mean before that first commission check comes in you need to know what you're getting into but then you got to be patient and you got to put in the effort you are listening to the 8% Nation podcast created to help you become a top producer in the insurance industry enjoy the show welcome to this week's 8% Nation podcast we have a special guest in the group health benefits space James Nevins with the font benefits advisors benefit advisors thank you for joining us my friend thank you I appreciate you joining us man we have not done a lot of content with group health professionals you are a friend of mine local to Springfield we've known each other for she's seven or when did we start networking together wait that would that would actually be pretty early whenever I started in so it'd be seven eight years and you've been in group health that whole whole time right basically right and then you recently went on your own when did that happen so that would have been August of last year so August of 2018 we just crossed over a year in a few months well I think this is an interesting story because I don't hear a lot of young guys like yourself getting into the group health benefits side why do you think that there's not a I mean when you go to these conventions you're probably the youngest guy by 10 years on average I mean is that how old are you so I am currently 30 very proud of it as a matter of fact I have been trying to tell people I'm older than I am trying to say well I'm working on 30 for a long time as soon as you hit 30 of the 20s baby you know you're now a you're now legitimate so you were selling group health it benefits at 22 yes 22 23 is whenever I really started getting into the group benefits and I will say that while I thought I knew everything at that point I now look back and it's like my poor self you know yeah right yeah well and it's one of those things you know I remember my very first client that I ever wrote I had everything pulled up on a screen and I there was kind of a quoting system that we used back then it was a with an insurance company that's not even around anymore and I was talking to them about the plan I was just reading you know line by line what it said and you know I okay I'm licensed which doesn't mean you know anything but I'm reading line by line and they're like so so what's the deductible over the word deductible trying to stall and a little definition popped up and I basically regurgitated the definition of slightly different words and the guys like oh okay all right all right all right that's okay well thank you for answering that that's awesome yeah so anyway but that was yeah really really good time well you've made the the entrepreneurial jump sooner than most to do your own thing build your own business from my understanding you started this like I said less than a year ago you're already six million in premium on group health his own company about that yeah yeah so 253% growth just from the beginning of this year till now dude what do you first off I want to unpack that a little bit okay first off why did you choose to go independent in general help me understand that journey the entrepreneurial sort of risks that you took walk me through your mindset because there's a lot of guys that watch and gals that watch this that are sort of captive they're debating going independent or working for someone debating to do their own thing and I know they are all hungry to hear that story of what clicked with you mentally just walk me through how that sort of happened for you that's okay yeah so as far as what actually got me to make the jump if I could take just a step back previous and say that you know whenever I got started I was actually working for my father-in-law who was a was a partner at a very very successful agency here locally and he had kind of made it known that hey you're going to potentially inherit this or take over this whenever I leave as you know I kept growing and I was pretty ambitious and aggressive he was a little bit more conservative the advances and the amount of time the timetable of me being able to take over was a little different than what he had originally said that it would be so I basically made that jump looking and saying hey I'm young now I can take on a risk right on and you know my late 20s almost 30 and I want to do this before you know I'm 40 and then I'm stuck and I can't do anything so that's a that's exactly what happened is I you know hey I'm young I you know I've got three kids a three two and one year old at the time and I was like you know I haven't done anything risky in a while yeah this is it this is it this is what it will do and so you know we actually my wife extremely supportive I've got to say if there was one thing that I can contribute to me being able to make that jump it was my wife we all work with our wives yeah so yeah and Kimberly became the breadwinner and she's actually in the industry depending on the topic she knows a lot more than I do so you know I have to be careful taking her out in public but she she you know was extremely supportive was the breadwinner got me on my feet and going and that's you know and you know here we are good for you man where did that where did that come from for you to want to like take that risk do your own thing and maybe it's just an aggressive personality like everybody's got this assessment personality so there's something in your childhood or growing up where you were always just entrepreneurial or you know yeah so I have I actually sold time-share whenever I was 17 I got an interview I didn't know what it was for I just I was working at Target and I was like I can make more than this why am I you know why can't I go do something I want a day yeah well I'm gonna go do a sales job and there was something at some resort and it's some sales and you can make you know hundred you know I think it was a hundred and make $150,000 blah blah blah and I was like why can do that and so I go in and I actually got the job and then whenever I was filling out the paperwork they asked me how old I was and I was like I'm 17 they're like you can't sign contracts at 17 so I actually would pitch and I'd always have to have a closer come over and do all the contracting but it was that I guess my point with that is I was doing that's whenever I was in high school I had the jobs that were other people's full-time professions so there's this kind of normal I also was a veteran I got deployed it was very hard going from a owning your own life to you know this is how you'll brush your teeth this is what you'll eat and what you'll wear and stuff like that army yeah I didn't actually know that oh yeah yeah 2009 a spin it over and overseas which I will tell you 2009 you had like the Haiti quake red box came out and this little thing called the Affordable Care Act all happened all happened during that and it was I remember going to you know McDonald's and I was like hey they're selling toys outside what's that red kiosk thing you could you have to buy toys they don't have any happy meals anymore I was like no these are movies they have movies in the happy meals and was like no this is this red box chill out but anyway so so yeah so I did some of that so whenever I came back I I don't know I have always wanted to own my own business I've never been one that wanted to work for somebody which there's nothing wrong with working for somebody it's just you know that was what I was after some people aren't meant to do that you know yeah people you don't have their own thing yeah and that was so that was the my goal has always been to own my own business and that actually got really cemented for me it was about four years ago I had a I had a client that was retiring closing down shop they had three four employees and the employees didn't make bad money but this was a very small shop they sold kind of like tractor equipment and their retirement strategy was to sell all of the stuff back to the manufacturer so they had to kind of a contract that allowed them to sell it back to the manufacturer and so we were talking here they are in their 60s with this little bitty business and it was I think it was like 12 million of the inventory they sold back of and that's you know money pocket and something about the way the taxes work they didn't have to you know I don't know all the details on that but that was a it was like holy cow that is incredible and so I started looking I was like you know what it you want to be your own boss that's the biggest success you can have and it doesn't matter what you do whether you sell insurance or tractor parts or scrub potties owning your own business that's that's where you that's you know that's where the money's at so yeah random question because because it is the American dream right but do you think everyone should own their own business or do you think some people just aren't cut out for it okay so that's really tough so I've got a lot of opinions so I think that everyone could yeah but I don't think everybody's cut out for it so I guess to answer that and it's and you know there's a lot of people that that just isn't because it takes a lot of risk it costs just putting a putting a dollar amount on it it cost me 75,000 to get my insurance practice up and going and now mind you we went really fast and you know made covered a lot of ground and got and you know a year later were kind of out out from under all that but the stress the fear I mean it's real I mean you know I remember Christmas of last year was I mean it was terrifying like you know hey we need to call everybody and do white elephant gifts and we're gonna do rocks because you know I can find rocks I can make that put it in a box but you know that was a that was a pretty terrifying thing and so I would say you know you have to and also you have to you have to it's a lot of work to own your own business the risk and you guys know this but the risk and then the work I mean it doesn't just happen and a lot of people think that hey I'm just gonna start a business and you know roll out of bed and here it comes and I would say most insurance agents you know being an insurance agent or any sales I let's actually explain about sales salesmen think a lot of people get into sales they're like hey I can just show up and people are just gonna walk in the door and I'm gonna sell them and I'm gonna make all this money and it's like that's just that's not real yeah well let's talk about that then let's unpack that so you seem to have found a way to go knock down business obviously if you're growing 250% and you're doing six million premium inside your first from being worried at Christmas from being worried later six million group health insurance let's talk about that like let's talk about you know obviously you don't have to divulge any secrets but what is or do or yeah right right or just give us everything yeah what what is a what would you attribute that success to what do you have to do day-to-day what is a mindset focused in addition to here's the things I got to knock down today or what do you attribute that prospecting success so I I'd have a couple of things that I would say on that one is I built a really good reputation I I probably received 14 referrals group health referrals in the month of October I'm not sure how many we're at right now in the month of November but I get a lot of referrals and the reason I get a lot of referrals is because I know what I'm doing I'm extremely honest I walk away from business whenever it's not the best for the client yeah and people know that and you know I I can't remember where that came from but there was a quote somewhere that if you want to people to see you as being trustworthy the secret is to be trustworthy yeah if you are trustworthy people are going to automatically just hey you seem kind of like a trustworthy guy you know and so a reputation I would say is my number one thing that I can that I can go and say that hey this is this was the biggest part of me being able to get what success I've I've been able to on top of that I was very very intentional with everything I did I had a very clear thought out this is what I'm going to do this I'm gonna prospect love reaping and sewing I'm gonna go ahead and tell you it's about a 60-day whatever you so about 60 days later that's when it all starts popping up and that's that's when you can reap it and one you've got to sew it and two you've got to stick it out and be there to reap it and I've watched I've actually trained a lot of insurance agents I had some that I trained that did individual or Medicare and then group is obviously the number one thing that I've trained on and the thing that I notice the most often is the you know getting through that I mean we have a very long especially in group it is a very long cycle yeah I mean before that first commission check comes in you need to know what you're getting into but then you got to be patient and you got to put in the effort most people within two weeks they they're done and honestly it's they ought to move on because they do two weeks and they're like why did all this work and nothing I had a I actually had a guy that worked for me this summer he put in a lot of really good effort you know I coached him up and he left and since then some of the they're coming to you sewing that he's done I'm riding and you know we have multiple I want to say that to this month that he went and so did June I'm reaping now and I you know and it's one of those things if he could have stayed he would have gotten that but he he was so focused on the short term and it's like you know hey I you know this is not a short term cycle it does it does take time now mind you what's what's awesome about what we do is you know once you get a client I mean they just don't go anywhere you know that's what I love about insurance is that residual income you take care of them it just sits there and every month and I don't track I don't watch my commissions as closely as I really should I'm positive I probably lose out because I don't look at that yeah and I'm so bad at that and I you know eventually that's something I've got a that that's one of the big man like the carrier doesn't pay it and you have to raise your hand we hope they do but sometimes it doesn't happen we hope it's the right amount on the right time but a lot of times they don't that's annoying I didn't think about that as a factor I mean it's someone's gotta you know input the data right comes out you know well and you know I usually catch it because maybe it's like a $20 a head comp and then all the sudden I'm getting a check and it's $763 and it's like I'm not great at math but $20 times however many people will never come out with a three at the end you know and change and it's like yeah that's that's just not gonna happen someone's wrong and maybe it's in my favor maybe it's not but somebody's wrong here and well that actually happens a lot so you talk about I know you're a big networker but whenever you you know started on your own deal you get referrals you can't necessarily control the referrals that's just about reputation building that so what do you do to go out and hustle like what does that look like as far as the referrals I will go ahead and tell you that I get a lot of referrals because I ask for them yeah I make sure that I earn a referral and then I it doesn't bother me to look at somebody and say hey I just saved you 30% on your group benefits you've got to know somebody that you want to do a favor for and send me into them and I usually couch it as you're doing them a favor by sending me you know that I just saved you 30% you're welcome yeah you know so and I and a lot of people will write them I've had people that while I'm talking to them they'll pick up the phone and call or text and say hey I've got a guy hey I told him that you're gonna be calling him and you know that's it works and again it it was earned on the front end so it wasn't a big thing on the on the back end so other than that networking you go to events are you a part of you know some stuff I mean so I've tried a lot of different things I went to a lot of like Chamber of Commerce events you know the big thing that you got to do is you have to get around your okay you're we're fishing we've got to make sure that you know we're fishing in the right pond and we know what we're trying to and then you bait for that fish you know so for me I'm looking for owners of businesses CFOs and then HR's I've been a guest speaker at a couple of CFO different events that helps a lot you sit there you educate them they're like oh wow okay you know what you're doing really easy to get a phone call afterwards from somebody saying hey you spoke at this event same thing a shirm I've actually been a guest speaker at some shirm events shirm oh man it's the Society of Human Resource Managers okay HR yes it's the it's the HR about TPS reports all day exactly exactly but anyway so and you know we'll go in talk about employee benefits so on so forth and then the other thing I do is something it's actually a pretty new technique you guys have probably never heard of this before all right if you're ready okay here it is so I do this thing I figure most businesses have a phone and a phone number weird I have a phone and a phone number and I pick up my phone and I call into these businesses phones and phone numbers and I'm like it's usually well sometimes it's usually is this black magic they speak as it's usually pretty cold when I'm calling but you know I call in and they you know that is gonna be new to a lot of you know I do a lot of I do a lot of cold calling and I'll call in and you know I there's numbers about a 3% you will get a meeting and of that of those meetings I usually write about half so if I make a hundred dials and I get a hold of somebody so a hundred times I get a hold of somebody I'm pretty much guaranteed one client and if you look at the hours you put into that it's a no-brainer oh yeah it's like a you know absolutely I do that all the time not mind you I hate cold calling so yeah there's somebody out there I just know there's a sick there's a sick person out there it's like man I'm a cold call today and it's like you dirty but you know cold calling is is something else that I've you know done quite a bit on and of course you know again cold call now here's a new client new referral and you know and it takes off from there and I've had I actually have had you know and again just hitting the referral one more time and that is I like to say that you know whenever I started off I was a spider excuse me a scorpion I'd go around hunting constantly now I'm more of a spider I build a web and things come into it I mean I just you know if you if you have a well-built web stuff flies you want to make it as pretty as you can but I've actually had somebody call me and they said okay hey look I've had I've had three people giving me your number and said that I need to call you so I'm calling you I have no intention of using you but after the third person I've decided I need at least and I will say that yes that person ended up using me right right so you're adding value not stealing chicken that's though yeah yeah well and I mean and again at the end of the day the reason he used me is because he felt like his current agent was taking really good care of him and they weren't and that's you know and that's a in that well okay most agents which and hitting back on what you said earlier most at least within the group space and I think that's pretty true I don't even know that many group health agents in spring from Missouri by the way I'm guessing there's out there but there there's quite a few it's a good niche but there are most of them are in their mid 40s they're young at mid 40s or they're in their mid 50s 60s and that is that's kind of the norm and what what I run into a lot is a lot of the agents are very complacent and comfortable they're not staying up with some of the trends within the market they're not willing to show every option we recently had a group agent which he's actually he's a younger agent he's 40 within the space he I have a client we quoted ended up showing a 20% savings the only reason we ended up quoting this particular client is kind of a a political they felt obligated to quote with us it wasn't even because it was a hey we're shopping and they said there's no possible way you can beat what my current agent has my current agent is awesome they're wonderful by the time we got done the current agent tells them you know I don't know how they're getting the rates that they're getting yeah but you know and then they came back and was like well he's showing you a tier two plan and I'm showing you a tier one plan which I always thought tiers increased you know so it's like saying my point was better because it was a better plan what I'm showing is better plan and the thing is he hadn't once quoted this group out in like five or six years oh got it so the creep just kind of kill them yeah and that's a and that's normal I got to say that you know my experience most agents and most employers don't have an agent that's actually looking out for the best interest so it's a wonderful yeah it provides an excellent opportunity well what do you say to those new insurance agents that you know you obviously said plant reap what you sow plan for the future but what do you feel like are some pitfalls that new insurance agents in your space that you've seen fall into in a larger group and said you know what I can spot that guy that isn't going to succeed because of this this is besides work ethic in the basic stuff yeah work ethics is the easiest one give up to send yeah I mean you know that giving up too soon is definitely a easy pitfall you need to give it a year I mean you don't know well you'll know if you succeeded you know if you succeed early but you need an entire year in group space before you can actually say hey this is gonna work out it's not gonna work out because I've got another guy that started June 1st didn't do very well I think he's gonna be pushing I hope that he's gonna be pushing 60 to 70,000 as far as revenue goes and not too long and that's and again he was feeling it but whenever he started he said I'm gonna give this a year and let's see what happens and I gotta say within two months I think he was ready what kind of person do you look for whenever you're hiring a group health you know like for instance I know group health isn't everybody you should probably get interviews you don't hire so what is it that you look for confidence okay number one thing that you know you can sell is confidence and obviously false bravado is not the same as confidence but you know it's still you have somebody that's confident that can stand you know have a conversation get in front of people and talk yeah you don't have to be that intelligent you just have to be able to you just need to know 10% more than the people you're in the room with and you're a qualified expert there you go you know and we should have a knowledge bomb but at least that's a definitely confidence is what I look for and it's a losing confidence in yourself is probably the number one pitfall that that you know an agent will run into it like I said I mean I've watched this over and over and over and they start thinking that you know I can't do this blah blah blah and you know that's you know I love that demotivational poster that says you know you know you're gonna miss 100% of the shots you never take and statistically speaking about 98% of the ones you do yeah yeah yeah yeah and there's there's actually yeah while it's demotivating in one way it's like it's kind of true you only need that two percent though you know just make sure that that hundred percent of the is big enough well if anybody knows it's this guy right here we're just you know throwing a seven-figure retreat in July you know if you would have if you would have looked back two and a half years ago was it two years ago you had the initial idea for a percent nation it was almost a year and a half yeah May of 18 in your head do you think you're gonna have a seven-figure budget for and Jordan Belford at the Palms in Vegas no no I did not why not were you not thinking big enough you know what I mean like you know I think we all think we're thinking big enough but then we look back like you said earlier and we're like three years ago I thought I was thinking big you know and even last year I was thinking big and now what right now compared to last year just what I know and thinking bigger right and what you're seeing a year ago now we all go through that well and what I'm what I'm struck to James is it sounds to me and you didn't say this but I'm ready between the lines you took you okay so let's just say you wanted to be in control of your destiny instead of waiting for somebody to retire yeah the easier road would have been this is your father-in-law not a random dude that you're working for the easier road would have been to chill and inherit the book yep because it's his daughter complacent like the other agents that you're still clients it's his daughter and his son-in-law you're getting the book so you chose it be awkward at Thanksgiving if we did you know my point is though is you chose to say you know what I ain't waiting for nothing but the hands to me I'm gonna go after it and that isn't I mean to me that I respect that that's a big deal I respect that most people would just take low-hanging fruit sit around like but but you know what I don't want people giving me no doubt you didn't earn it and it's not yours that was a yeah that was that was a big part of my thing was you know I want to I want to own it then it's mine you can never say that you know well hey look he got you know blah blah blah and mind you that was a big I got a lot of training and a lot of knowledge and stuff and so very thankful for the opportunity and everything I learned while I work for my father-in-law but yeah you know hanging out in somebody else's shadow you'll you know never well and how easy could it have been to I mean because I you know we've been friends you know we hung out weekly there for years and I remember you know your kids were going through some some serious issues there for a minute where you could have very nobly taken the guaranteed money and not and easily justified that because of your family and all that but instead you just shoulder that burden and just sprinted and I respect that man so I salute you up to that because dude I bet you one out of ten people make that jump I mean how many people get their dad's business or get their mom's business or whatever so that's awesome and just because you could have easily it was not just about being lazy it's more about you could justify that completely nobody would a complaint you know nobody was saying that's why I was wondering earlier in the podcast like where that came from because I see a lot of similarities in you and I when you talk just history story not wanting anything handed to you wanted to go out and earn it and I always kind of wonder myself you know where that come from from people because some people just want to create something on their own and we'll do whatever the freak it takes to create it right but most people aren't that way so you know I've had that and then there's a particular kind of employee who has an employer mindset that I'm like how can I cultivate this and that's a yeah I don't have a good I I feel like that that was something that from the time I was young I was always course late whenever I was young I don't know what you always said that you wanted to be you know you had your astronauts and spider man it wasn't insurance and no definitely not insurance you know who right so I was I actually always wanted to take over the world so you know I decided to settle for a family and you know entrepreneurial you know insurance stuff but yeah so I would say probably I just feel like had to have been a personality type at least for in my case I don't know about everybody else but that was my thing and I you know and I'd actually have a lot of people from middle school that I've carved out sections of different continents that I owe them some day if I do you know they gave me you know a twinkie at school and I was like hey check it out I'll give you Argentina you know I don't exactly know where that is but I know it's a country give me that food and I will give you that right right you know well do you have any other you know sort of wisdom or parting wisdom so the 8% nation podcast you know 8% of insurance agents succeed is that number shock you first three years average ages 59 and a half like you mentioned earlier too it's 59 and a half okay yeah well insurance agent so I that's even harder than I thought as far as 8% succeeding I'll be honest I actually am I'm always surprised and the reason I'm always surprised is because is why I mean it's in my opinion it's a lot I mean it's not that it's okay yeah it's hard but it's not that hard to succeed I bet for group health and life and etc the statistics probably worse this is all of insurance and I think it's easier to succeed in home and auto and I would agree just from my own experience of you know a lot of friends within the industry home and auto does tend to have people both get in and stay in longer and I honestly don't understand because I feel like it's a very simple formula that if you go and you put in that formula you know the effort being intentional you build up that confidence lay you build up the confidence as you go to meetings you get a bloody nose and then you learn your you learn your craft I mean try to master that crap and after that I mean you all of a sudden look back just in the process of trying to do those things you also look back you're like oh whoa I made it yeah you know and I I don't I've never met anybody who at least that you know we hired at some point that I didn't look at and say yeah you're gonna make it and afterwards I've always kind of shook my head on the why you know just I just just weird to me that they that they didn't but you know I would be intrigued to see your disc assessment or your predictive index just because I think your predictive index style would come back at either a captain or a voyager okay I haven't taken I wasn't sure what you meant when we said the disc personality test but it tells you a lot about we do them before we hire sell people here yeah we have about 10 sell people and we're hiring them non-stop and I just had someone last couple weeks ago take it and they're they're an S or a C which means it should be doing service or you know data or computer stuff instead of cells so we didn't hire in Brazil yeah like D is you know they're dry they're ambitious they're you know aggressive I they're influential they're social they're great with people there are people person I think you took it you probably high D high high if I had to guess I know I did the ingram in any gram I don't know I don't know what's that one is yeah there was there was one that I got and I looked and it was a it was a one and an eight or something like that and I was like oh no we're not show anybody these these are these are bad you know while it was like you know you you may be successful but you're going to be really hard to live with don't talk to my wife and you know and you can be you know overly aggressive I think most people would they would see the numbers they'd be a little freaked out right but naturally I think that's one of the biggest reasons why you've been successful I think it's I think it's a blessing most people would think of it as a curse yeah yeah yeah I think it definitely is as far as you know being a blessing I mean that that is something that definitely is some of that I've never understood why some people make the choices and everything else that they do but at the same time yes I'm very thankful for example the I've a really high risk tolerance and you know that's something I feel like you just kind of inherit that and I am so thankful for that because I'm definitely a lot better off today than I was two years ago and I got to tell you two years ago I was pretty happy super content already extremely successful but I do yeah yeah that's a I always needs to be some new new endeavor it's important you know you have a you have nothing that you're shooting for you know so you know that's why as far as you know my two sons it's all about you know hey one of you guys needs to be a pastor so I can say I did my part and the other one we're still gonna go for the whole takeover the world thing you know so anyway right on well I I'm glad you came in I wanted to introduce you to you have a kindred spirit among entrepreneurs I remember you came to me before you're gonna make the jump you're like man what do you think yeah I'm like dude go for it bro like you've got to make you're confident you can do it who cares what the cut you know you're like yeah but it may take you know and I'm like just go for it and here we are a year later less what wait was it year and a half I'm blanking out how long well yeah let's see that would have been grown fast oh a year and a half yeah it would have been about a year and a half ago yeah that I was like hey I'm kind of thinking about doing so here you are with six million of your own business yeah and don't have to wait for nobody's book to hand it to you right good as do you man yeah thank you dude thank you for being on yeah man yeah absolutely it's really really good I really think so too really good no matter what type of insurance you guys are in I think you can learn from the entrepreneurial jump that James took along with the confidence and just the general nuggets that I feel like you dropped on yeah us today so thank you guys for joining us we'll see you on the next one