 So here the SID display week 2019 and hi, so who are you? Hello, I'm Paweł Malinowski from iMac and working together with Hilka. I'm a Hilka command from mall center. And you just got the price, that means you're the best? Apparently. Now we are really, really happy for this appreciation and that's what we did here. So we have the transparent fingerprint scanner. And this is building up on what we were showing last year at the iZone, where we're already showing optical fingerprint scanners based on... You can touch? So it's a fingerprint scanner right here, fully transparent? So it looks like a piece of glass, so you can see through. And it works kind of like a little bit of magic that you have an empty piece of glass, but actually you put objects on and you see them in the screen there. What? It's a scanner? It's a scanner. So you can put your finger and it scans your finger. Can you bring this closer? Can you have it here? Is it fragile already? Just have it behind. So you can see when you touch? Yeah, so when you touch, the fingerprint appears there. You can also do it with documents, so you can scan a business card. So you're going to be scanning business cards on your phone screen? For example, you can also think about having a full just transparent slab of glass indoors or on a desk. And you can scan the passport and four fingers with the same device. Is this workable for the smartphone business? Yes, sure. Does it take away some visibility or something? It does a little bit. So the one that we show here is around 70 to 80% transparent. If you go to higher resolution, you can still maintain at 500 ppi, you can still maintain 50% transparency more or less. And we work on different solutions at the whole center for the integration into this place. So one option is to have it underneath the display. We have a presentation on that tomorrow. The other one is in the display that Pavel is presenting on tomorrow. And this is the option that we have more for the lower end displays like LCDs, for example, in automotive or ATMs, where the display appearance is less critical and then you can put it in front of a display and still get the biometric and touch functionality by means of optics. So is there any chance you could get to like a dream scenario where it gets to 95% transparency or something like that? Yes, so for this demonstrator we did some safe choices in the technology. So in terms of like the gate line with those kind of things and also the pixel dimensions. So for sure we can get to higher transparencies if we make the pixel even a little bit less big. But also you can replace the metal lines that we have by for example transparent conductive lines. So can you share a bit more? So you can scan the whole hand? Yes, you can put the whole hand. So you can use it as a fingerprint scanner but in principle this can also work as a touch panel replacement because it can detect where you are touching. You can work with gestures. How far from the screen does it work? It depends on the light conditions and on the application. So I think the whole point here is that you have a very sensitive photodiode that can be also patterned into very small form factors or very small footprint. You can scale down the TFTs and the lines and then it's all about integrating it. How do you integrate it in the display? So in this case you have the light coming from all directions then you can put it anywhere in the screen. Do you see that it works? It scans details within the card. It doesn't scan the whole card like in the full card or something like that. What does it scan? So this scans, this is a broadband detector so it doesn't distinguish the colors but you have a lot of gray levels because we are using also very high dynamic range photodetectors here and the readout electronics. So here you can distinguish quite a lot of detail and depending on what you want to do with such a scanner it can be used at lower resolution or higher resolution even for payments. So let's stand up for a second. So what's next? Why don't you get to this kind of stuff and what are you planning to do? So this is our previous prototype where we used also organically photography to pattern OLEDs and we made 1,250 ppi display and you'll see here detail of this scanner so we have a very small DFT and a very small OPD island and in the next stage we want to have the OLED pixels so RGB OLED pixels with additional light sensor pixel in between. So we have some first steps made for that and the idea is to have really one panel with light scanning functionality inside this panel. So that's for the OLED world? That's for OLED, for LCD we have some other solutions for integration of such scanners. How do you integrate an LCD? So one of the options is this one very transparent on top of the display. Another option that I will present also tomorrow in the presentation is that we really integrated in this stack of the LCD so on top of the backlight but underneath the whole DFT backplane and then we also managed to get a readout properly to get high resolution fingerprint then still you require optimizations to be made. So how big is this going to be compared to the other through display fingerprint technologies out there? All of this is going to be huge. Because the other fingerprint sensors that shipping are doing some other ways, right? Yes, there is space for a lot of different solutions so if you want to have this solely for, let's say, border control you can think about having this piece of glass integrated for example in the desk of the officer at the border and you can use the same device for scanning all the hand and the palm and the fingers and the passport and the visa. If you are talking about integration into smart phone we are talking about having the fingerprint scanning all over the display area so your full display becomes a scanner. If we are talking about monitors you can have a basic touch functionality with scanning documents and still having it in front of the display so you can, depending on the interface you can point where to put the finger to, for example, make payments. And the basic technology blocks that we show here is not only for in front of display but you can also use it underneath the display and then at a much larger dimensions then currently it's possible for under display fingerprint sensing so the solutions out there right now is for one location only and what we propose to do is to do it over the full display area. Is it easy to put it in between every OLED pixel? It's not easy but that's why we do that. So that's really the integration in the panel so you have one panel which is both the display and the scanner and then even if you manage to make the front plane so you have the OLED pixels and the OPD pixels you still have to think how do you drive the backplane because then your one TFT backplane has to read out the signals and also drive the display so there are other challenges next to it. What are the people saying when they say they want to put the camera on the screen? Are they lying or is it related to what you're doing? Is it possible? Is it just an algorithm of what you're doing and it's a camera or something? You can call it as a lensless camera because this is really a scanner. If we are talking about selfie cameras this is a whole other challenge so the integration behind display of anything is a big challenge because modern displays have almost no transparency or some of them zero transparency so you always have to provide space for the lights to go through. How are they going to do? There's no way, right? We're going to show it next year, I don't know. Is this for the camera behind the same thing? The camera is difficult because you always need to work with lenses so the lens systems are pretty complicated but there are some ideas how to make it behind the display backplane but optically this is a very difficult situation. But you like difficult challenges and every year you come with some crazy stuff? That's why we exist. Are you a huge team? If we compare to some R&D industrial teams in the industry we are pretty small but we are talking rather about tens of people than hundreds of people. What do you need to get to the next level? Because now you've got the best prototype award that means all the billionaires are coming and they're going to say... Well, we are always working with companies so with industry we want to be close to the industry and we always rely on collaborations with industrial partners so we always do it with partners. Everywhere, in Asia, in the US, wherever? Yes, we are very flexible in how we work with partners so different companies need different things so sometimes if you work with material partners they want to test their material in such a prototype some companies want to take this technology to production some want to have a new prototype to show a new technology and of course we're still on the lookout also for the companies who are interested in taking this technology to mass production. And then once you want to get it to mass production is another whole challenge, right? And a whole bunch of other things you might be doing for that. Yes, but we've already solved it. We've done the tools on different technology modules so we've helped companies to bring it to production to their fabs. So we typically work with companies in the way that they send also residents or industrial residents to our facilities so they become part of our team which makes it much easier and much more efficient. They become like official spies. We wouldn't call them that way ever. Okay cool, I'm just joking. Team members. Team members, yeah. Okay, very cool. Alright, that's awesome.