 You know, I'm putting you in the hot seat, my friend, and before we get going, I want to make sure that we have a moment of gratitude to all of our presenting sponsors, and they include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Your Part-Time Controller, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, where Ms. Shonda joins us from, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd, and Nonprofit Tech Talk. We also have LaShonda Buckle Up, sister. Nearly, we're marching towards 1,000 episodes. Okay, that freaks me out. That is like amazing. I have been like on cloud 1,001 about that. That is a tremendous testament to not only the need that you're feeling, but the commitment to excellence and ensuring that our fundraising professionals have everything they need at their fingertips. Yeah, well, thank you. It's been amazing. And so, you know, we're on streaming. We have podcasts. You can download our app. I mean, you can get to us, and it's really a remarkable thing. But the board committee from Detroit, Michigan has gotten to us. And they have a really interesting question. So I'm going to throw this to you first, LaShonda. And let's see what your thoughts are because this is a fascinating question. We are interviewing candidates for CEO, the board committee rights. And I have noticed on resumes that a lot of CEOs don't have long tenure in their previous positions of leadership. Is this a new thing or should we be worried about this? That is a great question. In the traditional space, depending on where you are in life, you're used to people becoming more accustomed to loyalty and staying with organizations throughout their life and being promoted through the ranks and having 20 plus years of experience with that particular organization. There has been a shift in the culture and the new generation definitely is one that really will transition as they deem necessary. But as far as CEOs are concerned, average time for CEOs that I'm familiar with is roughly three to five. And that's kind of pushing it just because of the nature of the job. As a CEO, you're coming in to make substantial change. Keep that in mind. And with change, you're one, you're making an assessment, you're two, you're developing a plan, and you're three, you are implementing if you are lucky. Now, in that process, you will encounter some resistance and you go through all of the stages of organizational restructure. I would say don't be afraid of that because in many instances, having someone from a different environment, who may have a variety of experiences in a variety of areas, can really add value to your organization long term. And that also is a testament to their commitment to excellence in their particular role. What I will also add is when you're going through the vetting process, make sure you're checking those references too because although the title is CEO, there sometimes are things that we may not be aware of that may have attributed to shorter timeframes to different employment areas. So I would say don't be worried. Embrace that as someone who has a wealth of experience and coupled with some great references and a proven track record for success, you will be winning. You know, I love everything that you said because I think that's the logical, I think it's the realistic situation right now too. But you know, I think I have like this built in prejudice where I think to myself, oh, what was wrong with them? Why didn't they last? You know, and I feel like part of this is that a lot of the newer generation, they're not going to take any guff. Exactly. They're moving the needle and they're not going to suffer in silence, particularly women and say, well, that's just the way it goes. It'll get better and I got to keep growing. And so I like what you said. I think that's a healthy way to look at this because undoubtedly there used to be tremendous shame in not being with somebody for at least five to eight years. And now it's like, well, why weren't you out there exploring new things? Why weren't you gaining more skills? Why weren't you learning more about something else versus being comfortable? Exactly. Yeah, comfort is great. But then at the same time, I'm one that is definitely embracing change and insisting on excellence. So I'd like to have you out with that. Yeah, I think that's a good way to look at it. And I think that, you know, and before we move on, I don't think this is just a CEO issue. I think this is, I mean, wouldn't you... You're spot on. I mean, right now we talk a lot about mental health and wellness has really become a part of the forefront since COVID. And it's really important that, you know, employees and employers are a good fit. And when you discover that you may not be a good fit early on, it's important that you go ahead and sever those ties because you don't want someone to be at the organization that is not happy and creating an unhealthy environment for others. And it's really important that we recognize that and that we respect that because all decisions are not necessarily the perfect decision. They could be decisions that are good at the time. But as times change, we must evolve with the times and be sure to make the necessary adaptations for the benefit of the organization. Yeah, I agree. I think it's a new way of thinking about things. And we know so much has changed in the HR world and how we look at our resources and our people. Let's talk about Vern's question. And Vern coming to us from Los Angeles, California, Vern writes, can you give me an idea of how many donors someone should have in their donor portfolio? We're trying to navigate to a more professionally managed system and want to organize things a bit more. Wow. That is a great question, Vern. And let's start with, there is not a cookie cutter answer because there are several factors that we have to consider. We have to consider the size of your organization and those that are working in the major gift space. You have to think about the time that you have that is available. And then you also have to talk about resources, the financial part of managing a larger portfolio. So in a general sense, what I would say, depending on your donor base, take a look at your gift history and identify those create a priority or a hit list, so to speak, or a red list. And with that, looking at those that have made the most significant contributions as well as those that have the propensity and that have demonstrated interest linkage and ability, and then determining based on those three areas, how you're going to Debbie out those those portfolios in the perfect world, we have a smaller portfolio so that we can really develop and strengthen the relationship and culture that needed to receive the optimal gift. So I would say like 60 would be in the perfect world. Navigate and truly garner their support and understand all of the things that they'd like to do and what they'd like their legacy to be as it relates to their organization. However, the reality sets in, and we have to get to more people so I would say on average you're looking at about 80 to 100 again, depending on the number of staff that you have. We also set realistic goals in terms of how you're going to move them through the donor cycle. And that is very important, making sure that the goals associated with that portfolio are manageable that they're measurable, and that they're timely most importantly that So I would say on the perfect world roughly small and sweet like a salon size of 60, but if not 80 to 100 definitely will be optimal to try to ensure that your major gift officers or your principal gift officers have a nice pool to work with to garner philanthropic support for your organization and meet the goals. So let me ask a follow up question to that because you started off very interestingly enough with the major gifts piece. In your experience, are the major gifts officers working with like a smaller portfolio, or do they try and put them all together, you know, in like, there's like one major gifts officer and, and I realize this is dependent upon the size of the organization but do you see what I'm saying like, Yes, they try and move, keep them all to one person, or do they make it, you know, a smaller pool what what do you, what do you think. So again it's contingent upon size of the organization so for example I've worked in shops where we had three major gift officers and in that instance, we had our major gift officers really literally had a prospect pool of roughly 80 to 100. So in each month they would receive a list, and they would work through their list of the 80 to 100, and then also provide reports on their progress you know, have they been able to make an initial phone call contact. They sent out a welcome, I'd like to meet with you message, had they, you know, birthday cards, all of the different cultivation tools, inviting them to cultivation events. So being able to manage that group of individuals and move them through the donor cycle or the cost selling cycle is really important. Quality is the most important thing and think of it from the standpoint of quality over quantity. Would you like a nice quality pool of prospects that you can transition from annual giving to major gifts or from major gifts to principal gifts or from principal gifts to capital gifts, or would you prefer to have a significant number or more robust number that would be giving average size gifts that are traditional to the organization. We all know that in order to be able to move the pendulum with giving it will require time. And so we don't want to inundate our gift officers with a significant number of people to have to robotically work through. And we're opposed to really building trusting long term relationships on behalf of the organization that definitely will yield quantifiable evidence of their support in developing the relationship. So let me ask you this question. And this is something that just happened to me. I was having lunch with a CEO last week, and she told me that she's frustrated by being the one that seems to get the biggest donations. And she's like, you know, she's like, I have a development team. But, and her question to me was, is it because I'm the CEO and I know what's going on, and I have the relationships because I'm front and forward representing my company, you know, my nonprofit to companies, or is it my personality? Do I have like a lackluster team? Why is it? And I told her, I said, you know, I hear this a lot from other CEOs that they're like, they don't have in essence, a portfolio necessarily. But they kind of do because major donors, major corporate partners gravitate towards those leaders to make deals to strengthen partnerships. And I think this is something that's an interesting piece of this pie. And I'm wondering if you could comment on that. Definitely. That is the primary example of peer to peer and referrals. You know, peer to peer, you know, if I am a CEO and you're a CEO, we have a lot of things in common already, which makes the relationship very natural, very seamless. And in many instances, when one CEO or an individual who's very philanthropically engaged has had a phenomenal experience with a CEO of a nonprofit, they in turn will refer others in their circle to that particular point of contact. You know, relationships are the heart of fundraising. And what I will say to your team members, who may be your major gift officers or senior gift officers is I would say to you to share some of the fruit of your labor with them, and perhaps bring them along with one or two of those so that they can see you in action. So it's not only a training opportunity, but in addition to that, it is an opportunity to introduce them into that circle. You know, the C-suite circle is quasi-close triangle. And they will not have the opportunity unless their CEOs or their vice presidents of advancement and development open up the door for them. So I think it's an opportunity to further engage your team and also introduce them into the fold by creating a training opportunity or observation opportunity, because everyone wants to be with the lead. However, we often know that in many instances, the number two is the one doing all the work. So I guess what I hear you saying is like, this is just part of it, but make sure that you have that support that can, if you will, get the paperwork done, get the contracts, the agreements, and make that fulfilled. So it's almost like a development assistant is needed for those roles. Absolutely. Yeah, to make it all to be in succinct, you want to make sure you have those support mechanisms. And again, the training opportunities for those development professionals that work with you and for you at the organization, because there has to be a plan in place to help elevate them in order for them to be able to secure those larger gifts. So think of it as a professional development plan, but in a positive light. Because in most instances, people think of PDPs as a negative thing. It does not have to be a negative thing. It can be how you're fostering their professional development to elevate them to the next level. So, you know, right now my largest gift secured maybe $100,000. Well, let's come up with a plan to help increase my prospect pool that'll include some people that have the increase the pool that have individuals in there that have the capacity of perhaps 250 or 500. If given the opportunity, I'm positive that they will rise to the occasion and be able to make you proud. And they'll develop some of those skills that you've already demonstrated in securing the gift. Yeah, I like that. And I think, you know, before we move on to our next question, which kind of dovetails to this in some way, we don't spend enough money or time or tension on this training piece. And, you know, AFP reports that the average tenure of a development director is 18 months, which is shameful on so many levels. And so, you know, understanding how we can nurture a positive space and results at the same time, super critical. You know, it's funny because I didn't anticipate the conversation going this way, but let's go to John from the Great State of Texas, Fort Worth. John writes, as a fundraiser, should I invest in more in professional development dollars in fundraising or programming? I have a limited amount of time and money that my nonprofit is willing to invest in this. Frankly, I see that I need both. So when I read this question, I'm like, okay, do I go and get training on how to do fundraising? Or do I go and get training about my sector topic? So, for example, if you're working in, let's say, human services to go and get training about what current methodology and sensibility is about working within the shelter community, right? I mean, I see that's like incredible scientific knowledge and need on both sides. So much has changed on how we're fundraising in just the last five years. So much has changed in how we're dealing with, you know, human services in just the last five years. Scientific information is out there and research is being conducted. So how do we make these really tough decisions on where we're going to invest in ourselves? You know, there's not the perfect answer, but an answer would be to look at it from a balanced approach. Okay. And the balanced approach, in my opinion, would include, you know, having revenue earmarked for that specialty training, but then also with the professional development. Now, what I would suggest, if your budget is a modest budget, like most of us have when it comes to trainings and all those things is to identify one person on the team that may go to a training and come back and share with the rest of the team. And that can help maximize the resource in the time spent on that particular training. And then as it relates to specialty areas, depending on your nonprofit area, perhaps you can consider identifying individuals who may be able to serve on your board to have those areas of expertise. It can help educate your team on those particular topics as well as creating opportunities for volunteers, a call for volunteers that have those levels of expertise that may be willing to lend their expertise to your team and provide some training gratis. There are great opportunities to partner with companies and other organizations that can help you navigate that area of knowledge or that to help fill that particular gap that your organization is missing and not have to use the resources that you have in your budget so that it can maximize the opportunity so that you can focus on those in which you serve. You know, LaShonda, I think this is going to become an even bigger question for organizations given that professional conferences are now coming back. So, you know, if you're in the social sector, you know, I gotta believe there's like all sorts of conferences coming back that, you know, are for continuing education credits that are, you know, realigning the latest data that, you know, are really drilled down moments for very specific segments of whatever that service area is. And so I would imagine, along with John, you're going to be having this question. I mean, for five years, if you think four years, all the conferences were shut down, right? So nobody's going to make these decisions, right? Because they couldn't travel, right? Now things are popping back up and how do we look at these things? You know, I gotta believe, and I know it's crass, but I do believe in that mantra, you know, no money, no mission. And so for me, when I look at organizations, I always feel like they need to invest in fundraising knowledge and training and process so they can do their programming. I wholeheartedly agree. In the programming, you have experts that you can reach out to. One of the wonderful things about being a fundraiser, your primary role is to build a relationship. You're not asked to be the expert on all things. Your expertise is that fundraising. And again, there are countless opportunities to bring in experts. And as Julia, you mentioned really eloquently, the doors are opening up for these specialty conferences, but also think about their opportunities to be able to secure free information online and resources online through those organizations that support those particular areas of special services. You know, all of the research that's been done. For example, with the Council of Advancement Services, that information is readily available, whether you're a member or not, you can secure some of that information. And, you know, in the perfect world, we'd all be at the conference hearing it in real time. However, we all don't necessarily have the time to be there or the resources to be there. So it's just really important that we hone in on that, which is most important, as you said, no money, no mission. So, you know, having that balanced approach will definitely help you and your team in maximizing the opportunities that are presented before you. Yeah, I think it's, I think that's really interesting. I hope it works out for you. John, I think there are a lot of other people around this country that are looking at the same thing. Okay, you know how I love name withheld state withheld. And a lot of times I pull these names off because I think they're too close to being revealed and I don't want to get anyone in hot water or so. No hot water. I'll fess up. I took this one off. Okay, the question is this, I want to start building relationships with potential donors outside of our community. And I'm getting some resistance to this. Can you help me get some talking points for my CEO so that they trust me and my approach? I think we're missing some tremendous support from rural parts of our western state. That's a wonderful question. You know, you just talked about how people are now traveling and from a geographical perspective, we have no boundaries. And when it comes to the fundraising space, there are no boundaries. We've seen this time and time again. So what I will say is that you may want to start with looking at clearly what you said, what are some of the opportunities or the missed opportunities. So we've got the conversation today talking about prospect pool. So what I would do if I were you is pull together some prospects in the area and identify how they've given to or have the propensity to give to like organizations similar to yours, and also provide that information about how much they have given and how it can help support your organization's current goals, as well as help expand the programming and services that you have available. The goals fails, the quantifiables, the numbers that are the truth. They are the true factor in decision making where we're talking about nonprofit management and nonprofit success. You just said it, no money, no mission. You know, it's really interesting because I think that we have been hogtied by this geographical issue. You know, maybe it's a county line or a city, you know, literally a city drawn map or a circle around something. But this is a new day and our donors are moving around the country. They are having now with, you know, a remote workforce. They can live in a different place, still be considered a resident of a city in their own hearts and they're giving, you know, philosophy. But maybe they're living at the beach or they're living in the mountains or they're living with aging parents. Who knows, right? So I think you have to be thinking about this a little bit more in an expanded state. I really do. And I think it's probably a hard issue too. I'm certain. And it's really important though that as we are fundraising professionals that we're very mindful of, if we do not transition with the trends, then our organizations will be left behind. And we have to really pay attention to what donors are wanting. And as you shared, you know, donors are everywhere that will possibly support your organization. You know, I've seen job postings where it says location, there are no boundaries. You know, no boundaries, you know, so you're, you're anywhere is anywhere you want to be. And so with that in mind, you want to be able to maximize the opportunities to grow your organization. If that means that that someone may not necessarily have the zip code within your normal geographical region, then it is the opportunity to expand. And, you know, donors have great experiences. They will refer others. So it's really important to keep all those things in mind. And then also as you're building your case for support, thinking about the cost selling cycle and need discovery, asking key critical questions to your CEO about how they'd like to see growth within the organization. Getting more insight. Yeah, I mean, I, I'm sorry, I interrupted you. I think to, you know, we're expanding our service areas. We are. So I mean, maybe this is in line with expansion and growth of an organization. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Well, LaShonda Williams, I love my time with you. I, you always bring to the forefront something that I hadn't thought of. You articulate it in a different way. And it's just, I love your can do demeanor to always feel like LaShonda said this, we can do this. Right. And I love this. This guy is the limit when we are soaring on behalf of our organizations. I love it. You're brilliant. LaShonda Williams at one of the wonderful trainers at fundraising academy. We were chit chatting before we went live. It seems like forever since I've been working with you and I have missed you, my friend. So I have missed you too. Happy to see you today. Yeah, it's been fun. It's really, really been fun. Hey, everybody, we are here having fun on a fry. Yay. Because of our great partners, they include Lumerang American nonprofit Academy, your parts and controller, nonprofit then thought leader, fundraising academy at National University where Miss Shonda joins us from staffing boutique nonprofit nerd and nonprofit tech talk. These are the folks that really join us on this mission. And it's just a brilliant partnership and they give us a lot of their trust in their faith and to deliver our daily programming. And so we want to make sure that our viewers and listeners know who they are and how they stand up in our sector. Hey, LaShonda Williams, you're always a treat and you always like spur me on for new things. Thank you, my friend. And thank you Julia and have a wonderful fry. Yay. I will. Hey everybody. We like to end every episode of the nonprofit show with this mantra and especially as we go into a somewhat sacred weekend of our veterans day. This message rings true in a different way every day and especially with with the topic of our veterans and the message is to stay well. So you can do well. We'll see you back here on Monday. Everybody. Thank you so much. Thank you LaShonda.