 Good morning folks. Thank you all for coming today. Before we commence, I'd like to begin by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land on which we meet here in Brisbane today, the Yugara and Tourable people, and pay my respects to the elders past, present and emerging. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people here today. Welcome to this panel discussion on sports diplomacy. Papua New Guinea and the NRL. Now, I know what you're thinking, and you're right, I would have made a terrific prop for the Broncos. But apparently they already have one. But in all seriousness, I'm not going to try to convince you that I'm a rugby league expert. I tried that and it was too hard. And besides, that's what these guys are here for. The other thing is my friends told me not to bring up the blues loss last week, so I won't do that because I don't want to be rude, apart from just now. And it might come up again later. But I'll tell you what I do know a bit about. And that is the relationship between Papua New Guinea and Australia. At the Lowy Institute, I run a project called the Oz PNG Network. Our goal is to bring people from our two countries together, in person, where possible, so that we can understand each other better. It's simple, really, but it's not often easy. And that's why I'm so excited today that we're here to talk about something that is very close to both countries, sport. And for any international policy experts that have accidentally joined this event, relax. It's not really about sport, it's about diplomacy. You're going to love it. For the sports fans, welcome. Don't worry about what I just said. This talk won't be about international relations. You didn't come to the wrong room. You see, diplomacy is hollow without people-to-people links. And sport is perhaps the greatest such connector between Papua New Guinea and Australia. And rugby league, well, you all know why rugby league is so important, otherwise you wouldn't have joined us today. So thank you. In a minute, we're going to delve into the role of sports, particularly league, in shaping the diplomatic relationship between Australia and Papua New Guinea with a special focus on PNG's bid to join the NRL. And we are privileged to have three esteemed panelists with us today who bring with them a wealth of knowledge and experience in this field. And boy, am I glad they showed up. Thank you. Let me briefly introduce our special guest presenters today. At the far end, we have the Honourable Pat Connery MP, Minister for International Development and the Pacific. Minister Connery's role places him at the centre of Australia's diplomatic relations with Pacific countries. And his presence here today is an invaluable opportunity to gain insights into the policy dimensions of sports diplomacy. Minister Connery will be delivering a few marks today before we kick off our panel discussion. Minister, thank you so much for joining us. To my immediate right, we have Amelia Cook. Born in Mount Hargan, Amelia is an accomplished rugby league player and a pioneering figure in women's sport. She has played rugby league for Australia and Papua New Guinea, including at the 2017 World Cup with the Orchids. Amelia played in the Broncos women's inaugural side in 2018 and won a premiership. She's played for Queensland and in the state of origin. She's a mum of two, and she's aiming to get back to league next year. Amelia has not only made her mark through exceptional athletic performances, but also as an advocate for inclusivity and the advancement of women in rugby league. Our third panelist is David Mead. Born in Port Moresby, David moved to Australia when he was 12. David played 172 games in the NRL and 58 games in the English Super League before retiring at the end of the 2022 NRL season. An alumnus of the Gold Coast Titans, the Brisbane Broncos, the Catalan Dragons, David has also represented PNG on 15 occasions across three Rugby League World Cups. He's a devoted ambassador for his homeland and has consistently championed rugby league at the grassroots level in Papua New Guinea. I look forward to hearing our panelist reflections on rugby league, the PNG NRL bid, and its potential implications for sports diplomacy between Australia and Papua New Guinea. Thank you all for joining us. Without further ado, let's begin with Minister Conroy's remarks. Thank you. I'm just going to turn my chair around because I'm sort of facing my back to the audience. I'm not going to give you a big formal speech so don't be scared by these notes. I just want to sort of start with a couple of introductory remarks and obviously I begin by acknowledging the tourable and Yagura people and pay my respects to any Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people present here, especially acknowledge Elders past present and emerging. I also want to acknowledge Daddy Toca Jr, Deputy Governor of Port Moresby Province here as well as I think there's representatives from the PNG Hunters Club here. I'm vastly under-qualified to be on this panel with two great sports stars and I will point out it's very rude of Lowe to put me next to David given he's probably the only person to have scored two hat-tricks against my beloved Rooster side who importantly had the I think probably the first sort of prominent kumal to play in the NRL and Adrian Lamb, a great play. There might have been ones before him and I don't mean to disrespect him but certainly my living memory. He was the first player I associated with Papua New Guinea and Rugby League and he's certainly been a Pathfinder as has David. Well absolutely absolutely and he might have helped you win a state of original too as well. Look sports diplomacy is why war are here people understand the power of it and we'll be concentrating on Rugby League but it's everywhere. I got to sit down and watch the Super Pacific Women's Rugby Championship the first few years on with my daughter who was about to play her first season of Rugby Union and to watch the Fijianna Drew aside win that championship in their first year to see the joy on their faces. I then travelled to Fiji for the Pacific Islands Forum meeting and the most common question I got from journalists from Fiji is would Australia continue to support their Pacific Rugby teams? That is the power of sports diplomacy or I was at a reception for the Tongan women's Nepal team and to see their joy on their faces as they qualified for the World Cup is just incredible. Obviously the state of origin itself has a long history in the Pacific. The first state of origin game was played amongst Australian soldiers on Bogenville in 1945 and Queenslanders claim they won the game but the sort of result is shrouded in the midst of history and probably the most recent example of the sort of sports diplomacy and the people-to-people connections that are there is when the Central Coast Mariners thrashed Melbourne in the ALE Grand Final and I can say that as a representative of the Central Coast it was with Ney Vanuatu player Brian Caltech playing centre back and Prime Minister Kousa Cal was in the crowd in Paramatta cheering on that great result. They are just examples of the people-to-people connections that bring the people of the Pacific together. Obviously David and Amelia are ambassadors not just for Papua New Guinea but quite frankly for those connections between Papua New Guinea and Australia and it starts at the very lowest level with five-year-olds kicking the ball around in a playground and it goes to the most senior levels. The story I've told many people was last year's Pacific Island Forum Leaders Week was in Suva at the time of the third state of origin game. A game which was beautiful for 78 minutes and then horrible for two but the game started at 10 o'clock at night Suva time and Prime Minister Albanese and I invited all the other Pacific leaders to watch the game with us in the hotel bar. We sent supporters kits for both the Blues and the Marones and it was wonderful to bring I think almost every Pacific leader came and watched the match even though they had a full conference. I was disappointed to say that most of them were Marones jerseys except for the Secretary-General Henry Puner who was the ultimate politician in the Pacific. He understood that Prime Minister Albanese was a blue supporter but it was great and watching that game including explaining the Rugby League rules to a couple of the leaders who represented countries with sort of non-Rugby League heritage think some of the French territories or some of the American sort of compact states just brought leaders together and explained that in all this area the people-to-people connections of sports are so powerful and it's not just about bringing people to people together it's about using sport as a message to get across broader issues around social justice. I was in Papua New Guinea for Anzac Day and I visited a League Belong Life program which was using Rugby League skills and drills to educate people about domestic violence and to me that's a great example of that and I can't think of a greater group of ambassadors than the PNG Orchards for gender equality having seen that wonderful documentary having seen them work in their community is just so powerful in Papua New Guinea so sorry for rambling on but I'm very enthusiastic about it and we haven't even talked about having a PNG team in the NRL but I'm sure that will be the the main topic of this panel conversation but thank you Lowy for putting this on. Thank you David and Amelia for being here and I really look forward to having a great discussion. Thank you minister. I should have said my name is Mihai Sora by the way and I work at the Lowy Institute. That documentary the minister referred to is Power Mary and we actually have the director of that documentary in the audience with us Joanna Lester. Joanna thank you so much for being here and for helping us put today together. Minister we'll kick off the grilling very soon. I mean the friendly chat. For the audience I'll throw a few questions to each panelist to get us started but I want you to think about your own questions because we will have an opportunity for audience Q&A and if you're sitting there thinking that's not the right question or that answer wasn't complete I invite you to jump in when we get into the Q&A and that will be followed by sandwiches. Now remember those later when you're hungry because they'll be waiting outside but first you have to earn it. So for my first question minister I'll throw it to you and it would be great if you could expand on particularly the Australia-Papua New Guinea relationship. What more can we do with sports diplomacy? Do you see potential for growth in Australia's engagement in that space and and what is the PNG side also bringing to that partnership? I think there's huge opportunities. Not enough people realise that Papua New Guinea is our closest neighbour. I've seen polls where people have asked people what name Australia's closest neighbour and people list Indonesia, people list Timor-Leste and when you say the closest point of Papua New Guinea to Australia is four kilometres. The fact that you could swim between the two countries if you weren't worried about saltwater crocodiles and should be I think just demonstrates the closeness of our relationship and the potential. And I think sport and particularly rugby league has a powerful part of that. I'm unofficially known within the Australian government as the Minister for Rugby League and it's a great title and to travel to Papua New Guinea with Prime Minister Albanese at the start of this year for when the Prime Minister was the first foreign leader that would address the Papua New Guinea parliament and the loudest cheer, the loudest applause he got in that August hall was when he said that the Australian government is very keen to see a PNG team in the Australian Rugby League competition into the NRL. And that's because it is the national sport of Papua New Guinea as it is the sport of New South Wales and Queensland, the two most important states in Australia. And I'm very proud to say that on the public record this will only bring our people closer to closer together. And that's why the Australian government is very keen to explore opportunities for how we can support it. The Pacific Oz Sports Program has about $18 million worth of funding and we already provide significant funding to Rugby League both for things like the PNG Hunters to be in the Queensland Cup for the annual Prime Minister's 13 game. And we just announced at the start of the year annual school boys and school girls tours of each country. And this is all to grow the elite pipeline so that the PNG and RL side is practical and most importantly competitive in the NRL going forward. And that and obviously our support is for both a male and female teams. Like we think that it's critical that men and women are on this journey together. Fantastic. Okay let's hear from a couple of men and women. Amelia as a pioneering woman in Rugby League how do you view the status of women's rugby league in Papua New Guinea and what do you believe is its potential going forward? Yeah good question. I think the potential for women's rugby league in general like we have the talent there to be the best in the world and I'm not like just saying that because I'm from Papua New Guinea. Like the raw talent and the passion that we have you can't coach that you can't teach that. But talent only gets you so far you know you need the resources and the hard work behind it to drive that and push that forward to get to a place where we want to we want to head to and at the moment I know the talent comes only from Port Moresby base. Like we've got a lot of Elsie Alberts that are you know in the highlands from the islands to the highlands and and they're everywhere and they're just waiting for an opportunity to be seen to give them to give that opportunity to go and play and I think the standard that we have at the moment the development pathways like we've still got a long way to go and it's really awesome to hear you say that you're looking to put a woman's team beside a men's team as well. I think that's so important going forward and to have those development pathways in place so that we've got the skill level that's starting from you know under fives under sixes at school coming through to high school and then when they finish school to go to the normal club level and that'll just make the decision for the coaches a lot easier to pick from as well. They've got a big pool in PNG to pick from at the moment. They're looking outside you know Brisbane base overseas base PNG players to come in to make the PNG Auckland steam but we've got our actual local talent back home and it'd be awesome to see it you know blossom and come into light in the future heading forward. Yeah awesome. Question for you David. Hope you're ready. How has your Papua New Guinea heritage influenced your professional career in Australia? Yes morning everyone. I guess yeah I was thinking of that question when you said it through you probably just for a bit of context I guess how it was influenced early. Also I was born in Port Molybdenia and I know you mentioned that before but half an hour out of there is Tulsaire village. Went to school in the village lived a simple life single mother cousins uncles aunties everywhere grandparents. Spent a lot of time with my grandparents growing up and that's how hard they worked and you know they worked hard to support their family but then you know in school and when we did go to school it was you know you're taught as a kid to you know study hard you know behave all these things but then also the stuff that you do voluntarily as a kid is sport and number one is rugby league. As a kid growing up in the village you don't always have a rugby league ball but you know you find what you can it's an anti-plastic bottle anti-coke bottle you pick that up and you kick it around so when we talk about how powerful sport is and the influence that you know how I was influenced growing up that was the foundation of it but then I also watched you know NRL on the weekends I was a St George's Dragons fan growing up but that's changed over time because of because of my career it's still a soft spot for them but two other clubs have taken that priority but in saying that Broncos had a you know big you know I was a grown up in the 90s as well so they had that good era of you know winning and they got some solid support from P&G so I was either Nathan Blackwalk or Steve Ranoff as a kid playing in the village and so I guess that's how it the influence of rugby league or the impact that you know rugby league had on me as a kid growing up and then when I got an opportunity to come to Australia as a 12 year old and my auntie adopted me and then it was for educational purposes but I knew I wanted to play rugby league at the highest level and so you know I went to school in Lismore New South Wales I did support New South Wales in P&G and my grandfather was a New South Wales fan the other 95% of our fans we weren't and so yeah getting an opportunity in Lismore coming through the ranks there you know that you just notice so much difference in you know just rugby league competitions on the weekends I did play rugby union for a couple of years because my two older brothers did but the year that I did change Gold Coast Titans had come into the composition in 2007 I think it was and I don't I think if they don't come into the Gold Coast and have that northern New South Wales as a catchment area I probably don't get an opportunity and so I think you know when you get it when we talk about P&G and I'll be it and I'm sure I'm probably skipping a few steps here but that's what that's what rugby league does you know especially in you know you know certain areas you just opens up a whole window of opportunity for kids who want to play the highest level but I'll leave that at that for now I won't skip skip any more questions but yeah that's that's kind of how rugby league has influenced me to get to where I am yeah beautiful you can see that passion here today as well Minister back to you now if the P&G and RL bid is successful how do you see this impacting community ties between Australia and Papua New Guinea well I'd love it I'd love to see not just that encouragement of healthy lifestyles and another pathway for mobility for Papua New Guinea kids but also to grow tourism I'm a big fan of sports tourism I came up to Brisbane for the Magic Round and watched three days of Festival of Rugby League which was awesome and I've been to the Auckland 9s a couple of times to watch that and so if we get this right we'll see Australians travelling the Moresby to watch their team play the P&G team injecting money into the local economy deepening the links because when you're naturally in a country as much as you want to watch sport the whole time sport is not on the whole time so you'll have a look around they'll see they'll start exploring the beautiful parts of Papua New Guinea because I think another area where we're really keen to work more closely with the Papua New Guinea government is around tourism I think P&G is such a beautiful country and except for limited pathways like if you're a surfer the northern part of P&G is I was talking to Wayne Swan a month ago and he just come back from surfing on the north coast of P&G and obviously there's the Dakota heritage and walking the Dakota track but we need more tourism and sports tourism can be part of that okay and we might touch on that a bit later as well a question for you Amelia was your experience playing in Papua New Guinea different from playing in Australia just talk us through you know what's the vibe like what are the cultural and sort of emotional and practical differences between the two countries yeah so I didn't actually play like grew up playing in in Port Mores we were in Papua New Guinea but having played for both countries and seeing the different system and the way it's set up really opened my eyes actually because like coming into the Australian system just the professionalism and how the girls are treated and you walk in and you don't have to worry about anything you just worry about your job you're going to training and you have a game to play and everyone else there's like so many different stuff and they all each have a really important role to play and contribute towards the team and then compared that to you know going to the P&G system and coming through that yeah it's very different from the hotels the stuff that we the place that we stay at to like the meals that we eat the recovery the amount of staff we have around in terms of you know physio and the access that we have as well it's you know I guess you know Australia has like 30 40 years of girls that have sacrificed and gone before and paved the pathway whereas we're just getting started you know the all kids was just born earlier less than five years ago and they're they're up and coming and the girls that are playing now are the pioneers they are the you know I'll use the big names here like the Karen Murphy's you know the girls that are playing now they are the ones that are paving the pathway for the future generation to come and just seeing the the comparison like we've got a long way to go for Papua New Guinea the girls in general and that's not just in rugby league like that's every sport I was like enough to play sevens as well and just seeing how it set up you know my first ever sevens camp we were put in Bumana prison like the inmates were serving us breakfast like that's how you're not allowed to make eye contact with them like that's that's how it was growing up and and playing for Papua New Guinea so when I went back and played rugby league I expected the same like we we had a Fijian coach for seven to um we're coming the morning at five a.m. and she'd like blow the whistle wake us up you'd do laps around the overall like it was last man standing and I didn't really understand the purpose of that training because like we're playing sevens but we're here running until the last person drops like I didn't get the point of that and I think um just having the right resources and the facilities and the training equipment and stuff and and just having that education and knowledge in the background um is is so important so I think in comparison back to your questions I'm getting a little off track here but um compared to Australian PNG like we've still got a while to go but I think we're definitely on the right track um I know the QRLs working closely with PNG as well getting some systems in place um I know Cassie she's in the background today and she's doing a lot of good work as well so seeing that and and having them on board I think is is pushing for a better um better future and yeah I can't wait to see where it goes. Yeah thank you I mean I I think people at least on the Australian side often underestimate you know we there is an identifiable connection and passion and universality in our region around Rugby League but I think sometimes you know those sort of stories they they show us that there are also differences that that we need to manage and I think now is is a good good time to pivot. David a question for you you know as a player with experience both in the NRL and Super League but thinking about a PNG based NRL team what are the the challenges what are the opportunities talk us through the practicalities. Yeah I think the opportunity is endless I think you know coming here I was going to talk about Rugby League through the lens of a former player but I think now that I'm working at the Broncos I've seen what the the community team does it's a massive team there there's 80 80 full-time staff who go out in the community so you know doing you know thousands and thousands of hours of work in the community like as you know as uh minister Pat Cornroy said it's not just about the game itself but it's the community programs that it opens up the opportunities to and then also there's a game development side of you know the driving the participation and using sport as a tool to increase the participation rate in schools when we know that sports a powerful tool and it certainly helps that again I'll keep mentioning Broncos because that's you know that's that's where my education is coming from. I think if a NRL bid team was successful in PNG or you know for PNG those are the types of opportunities that it creates and I can't name them all because it's endless but and then you come to the actual Rugby League team I've got probably two different perspectives on this I'm biased I want PNG to be in the NRL but then I'm also thinking how do we feed that team moving forward now Redcliffe Dolphins coming into the competition made a lot of sense because there's they've been around for a long time got a pretty good junior system in place there I guess my concern was probably how do we create a pathways programs in PNG so that that team is sustainable long term and I guess with you know that challenge opportunities arise and you know we can we can address that and and do something about it you know prior to the team being announced and brought into the competition so I do want the team to be involved I'm I hope PNG is next in the NRL I know that Peter Blandies has a very strong opinion about PNG getting involved he wants to I think my concern like probably most other PNG Kummel's teammates and and a lot of people involved directly with Rugby League I think I'll probably share that same view with them as well so I think that's a challenge that we'll have to address moving forward but you know it's positive I think and exciting as well so I think that's my view on that and any focus in there on that last point it's it's a point that both the NRL and the Australian government and the PNG government are really focused on is that player pathway and getting that culture of excellence because we need that pipeline and that's why the first steps the PNG hunt is coming in the the PM's 13 games now the schoolboys and schoolgirls tours are all instrumental key steps along the pathway because let's be frank about it most of the PNG players that are playing at the highest level in Australia have normally moved to Australia Davis example when he was 12, Adrian Lam 9, Justin Olam is one of the rare exceptions that came across to Australia was identified a bit later we need to have a system in place so great young Papua New Guinea players are playing at home and they're getting picked up they're being identified and there's an elite pathway the centres of excellence in Papua New Guinea that they come through and that's critical to sustainability of any bid. I'll probably just touch on that as well now that I'm at the Broncos I understand how the pathway system worked as a player you see the 14 under 14 academy come through once or twice a year but speaking to the trainers they're saying that these 14 year olds they're coming in 15 to 20 times a year they're getting the education about you know what to eat how to train how to sleep you know hydration anything you think about you're getting all that information at 14 you know and that's that's why the the clubs been doing well for such a long time and you know Paul Dyer who's been there for a long time he said that that's that's a model that works that's a model that I love to see being implemented in PNG because and then the amount of kids that come through and are able to perform at the highest level at a very early age you know we see Ezra Mann, Payne Haas, Selvon Cobbo they're debuting at 18-19 people watching them thinking man these guys must be so talented well they are talented but they've also trained for five years you know so at that highest level if you don't if you don't get that coaching early you get it at 23-24 by the time you're ready to play you're 28 years old and you're back into your career so I think that's a very important you know system to have in place and I'm glad you touched on that because yeah I think if a PNG NRO big team was to come in you know within the you know I saw some quotes from Peter Vlenni's you know as early as 20 27 to 2030 it's pretty early he's pretty quickly so you know they need to get some kids lined up and there's a big lineup of them too you know I went to Daddy's place actually corner double the field there I just popped in did a few drills with the kids you know some of them struggling to catch a footy did a 10-minute drill with them they're just catching it you know you know 10 minutes later with good with good techniques and that's only 10-minute session so I'm excited because the opportunity that it'll open up for the country for you know start from here to travel to educate Papua New Year's over there that's what it's going to do for the whole country across the country and I've seen kids you know they want direction they want they want role models in the community there's a big big there's a huge youth crime problem over there rugby league or sport in general is a very good tool to make changes in that area because they're around you know these settlement areas where rascals are around and you know the rascals they don't want these kids kids getting involved they actually tell them don't follow what we do but we all know that you know advice isn't followed it's you know it's we do what we see and so I think these programs in place massive win for PNG and I add to that as well please I think just speaking from the woman's perspective now like the boys already have the hunter system they've got the digital cup like that's a some sort of pathway that's coming through but the woman's got nothing at the moment so moving forward if the talk is to put another woman's NRL like a PNG NRL team into that how do we just you know out of the blue start up competition straight away and get the girls going to play because at the moment they're just the pawn base players they've got their own nationals where they play different zones and stuff so they've got some sort of pathway there but if we're extending that invitation out to all of Papua New Guinea trying to get the girls involved there's no actual pathway you go from you know playing your club to getting seen and then you play for the orchids but if we're if this competition was to survive and and you know I'm grateful that they're including the woman's team and trying to talk about that as well for it to last and and to go forward like do we just is it a PNG based team do we bring in you know talk about bringing a top tier player from the girls that are playing at the moment sorry NRLW to bring them in like what are the talks behind what you're selling them like are they coming into the team with their families and stuff like money wise everything like they're so much discussion and there's so much behind the scenes that needs to happen so I guess in terms of the timeframe and when we're willing to happen like I know you mentioned 2027 and happening really soon like from the woman's point of view and that game and where it's going I think we're like really simply speaking so far behind so how do we compete with the men and get them on the same page kind of thing yeah thank you for that and I was actually coming to you and and just to touch on that exactly so with this possibility that an NRL women's team would be stood up as part of that the PNG bid you know what would it mean for women's sport in Papua New Guinea but also what needs to happen you know I think you have touched on on this a little bit but but what do you think needs to happen how would how would it look like for you if if you could control all of the steps what's the sequence what needs to happen to make more opportunities available for Papua New Guinea women wanting a footy career yeah I think it's similar to what David was talking about you know you can't be what you can't see so the players that have are playing now in the NRLs I'll be you know Elsie Albert is like I was just you know along for the woman's game like she's a rare breed that's come straight from Papua New Guinea has made it and I think it's awesome to see her achieve so much in the short time that she has played but in terms of the program setup I think it'd be awesome to see another like did you sell cup type you know competition for women that would be a clear pathway where the girls playing in the grass roots can and see in a spot to be like because they know that from there they can go into the orchids or go a step into the NRLW and if there's a PNG team in the NRLW then like perfect like you can actually clearly see a pathway and you're you're training for a reason and a goal and working towards something rather than you know you just train here and there and you play on the weekend and with no real intention to go anywhere so I think a lot of it we've covered with development players like I love what you said about the under 40s as well like I think something like that for the women's but you know bring into school because I think that's where adding into the future a lot of the kids are in school like teaching the programs in school coming up into like Club Rugby and then heading into like the national stage would probably be like the better pathway to go and what do you think the impact would be on the status of women's sport in Papua New Guinea or women's socially in Papua New Guinea? Yeah I think um you know you touched before as well Pat the using sport but rugby league is a vehicle to drive that change and we've seen it after the first and over the years and for those who've watched the documentary you would have seen some of the girls talk about bottles being thrown at them when they were playing rugby league which only happened a couple of years ago but now after recently from the World Cup as well winning a couple of games but winning by heaps as well and seeing how well the girls have played and how far they've come I think that has definitely opened the eyes of Papua New Guineans everywhere and we're getting people on board now getting them to support us supporting women playing footy and seeing that the you know Elsie as well I like to use her as an example but her making it as well they're like oh you can actually go play NRLW get paid live in Australia but you know just here to play you know there's other opportunities you can study if you want to it's just a way out I think you know coming from from Papua New Guinea you know just coming to play rugby league here if you crack it you're also there's so many opportunities here to make a career if you wanted to go down the studying pathway or working and getting experience there as well so it's important to start young as well you know like David mentioned before you don't want to be starting at 21-23 and then by the time you're ready to play you know if a men's career ends at like 28 you had like a female in there and they've got kids and everything else and that's just like a another issue in itself so the short amount of time that you are performing at your peak level and you want to be able to do it with the best facilities available and giving the best opportunity to do that. Yeah absolutely David question for you so you've touched on this as well a little bit but what role do you see for yourself and other successful players in promoting and or supporting a PNG and RL bit? You know besides voicing my opinion and yeah talking a few newspapers here and there about promoting the game you know I think part of my role at the Broncos again apologies I'll keep bringing it up keep giving the Bronx a plug over all the other NRL teams it's about you know one of the day one when I first walked into the club they showed me the top 10 cities that in the world that follow the Broncos number two was Port Moresby behind Brisbane obviously and in at eight was Lay and so there's obviously a lot of eyeballs that support the Broncos a lot of interest for the club and I'm sure those numbers dramatically rise when you put the whole NRL together. I was a former player and I know what it's what it's like to come through the system here in Australia I understand that you know what minister Conroy said before it's about getting players into the NRL systems earlier the opportunity for the players in PNG is nowhere near always pretty much non-existent I mean we've got the hunters Digital Cup but even though these guys are waiting till that you know earlier to mid 20s and by that stage as I mentioned before it's a bit too late my support for PNG is going to be first and foremost through the junior development pathway system which you know which I'm working with the Broncos on to implement there so that's my focus is about you know helping the juniors to you know not just be good rugby league players or you know because let's be honest it's only going to be a very small percentage that get that opportunity I think the more important part is you know education living you know healthy lifestyles and being good person in the community contributing to your household making sure they you know your community is safe all these things I think that's probably more more of my concern than the actual NRL team in itself based in PNG yeah thank you that's that's really important minister question for you stepping up a little bit in terms of broader international policy how would Papua New Guinea's inclusion in the NRL how significant would that be for the political relationship and perhaps if you could step out even further you know with the Olympics and other sporting competitions coming to coming up in Queensland we've got the Pacific Games in Solomon Islands we have a lot of success as you touched on in your opening remarks of Pacific sporting teams in other codes particularly women's teams what does this mean for the Pacific on the world stage being cast in a positive light you know not a focus on the geopolitics but but that is a part of the region today how does sport connect with these global forces and what is Australia's role in supporting this positive attention well there's a fair whack in that question yeah that's why you get the big bucks exactly I think people to people connections are so important for our region like I think the more we can understand each other and the more we can relate to each other generates a safer and stable and prosperous region and that's really important and there are many strands to that having Pacific Islanders working in the Australian economy is a great example of that we've got 38,000 Pacific Islanders working in through the Pacific Labor schemes I met the first cohort of Papua New Guinea nurses up in Moresby and they've already come into Australia in Queensland working in our aged care system that's one example for a lot of people it's a shared Christian faith that is really really important that unites our region sport some other one like I'm so proud that around 50 percent of NRL players are of Pacifica heritage and that's something that's tremendous and we should embrace that I was in Samoa in February or March I think it was February and I was having dinner with about a third of the Samoan cabinet and for the first hour and a half of the dinner we're just talking about sport principally rugby league and rugby union that obviously come off their great achievement in the World Cup where they thrashed England and quite frankly I said to them if all the kangaroos players of Samoan heritage played for Samoa instead of Australia they would have won that final and we just announced that we're sponsoring Manu Samoa so the Samoan rugby union team we were the Pacific old sports it is the key jersey sponsor for them in the rugby coming up so it brings our region together and the more we come together and talk to each other the more we can relate to each other and so that's why it's so important on the world stage and within our region and taking the heat out of some of the sort of frictions that are going on at the moment and globally like I never want to see our region reduced to just being good at sport whether it's Pacific Islanders or even Australia known for being good at cricket or rugby league and rugby union like that is part of who we are and that's what we embrace but that's not what we are as nations and as a region but obviously it's a good entry point into starting to talk about like I'll give you another example that Samoan when Duane Johnson the Rock gave the Samoan rugby league team a call out and best of luck before the World Cup like his global reach is unprecedented like he's a global mega star and for a lot of people that's their first knowledge of Samoa and that can only be a good thing so I think that's the power of sport and then the positive message it's like I talked about the domestic violence angle with the um league program another one I was talking to a Telstra to just sell executive uh at the p.m.'s 13 and they're now the sponsor key jersey sponsor for the kumals and the orchids they said one of their conditions for coming on board was that the kumals and the orchid players are paid exactly the same amount in terms of match payments there I would love that to be the case in Australia I can't think of any other sporting code in the world where the male and female national players are paid the same in terms of match payments and that was their goals through digital's intervention and sponsorship that is awesome and that's the power of sport to be a positive role model yeah thank you that was a great attempt at I'm picking that jumble that I threw at you folks that was the last question from me but I would love to throw it to the audience we have about 15 minutes for questions and answers minister Conroy has to depart at about 20 past 12 he's got a flight to catch we are so grateful that he was able to join us and some of you would have seen we've adjusted the time that's to incorporate this so let's make the most of the next 15 or so minutes and when you ask your question I think we've got a roving mic on standby he's poised possible future athlete if you could identify yourself by name and any relevant affiliation just to give us a sense of your perspective the floor is open sorry sorry is that what Joanne Kenny I'm from that generation that grew up in Papua New Guinea so Papua New Guinea but obviously my parents gave me my Australian skin and I understand both sides of the story question is P&G independence is coming up 50 years 2025 can we have some rugby games please to to help kind of bring that relationship back into focus but also perhaps cement that relationship just thinking by the way my production company we did the rugby league commercials simply the best with Tina Turner back there and the reason was to bring women into the game not only as an audience but to get the public more involved so just remember music and rugby league mix so maybe we might think about that too any reactions from the panel maybe that you will you might be able to answer that one future panel there was a question I'll just say we are very focused on the 50th anniversary of Papua New Guinea independence Papua New Guinea is one of the few countries that's formerly a colony of Australia and those binds they obviously cut both ways in terms of acknowledging the colonial legacy but it's really important that we celebrate the independence particularly from the party of Goff Whitlam and we're very focused on how we can really demonstrate our love and affection for the people of Papua New Guinea all the time but especially in 2025 please after the question okay please I'm Annalisa Mopio-Jay for those who don't know me I'm a Speaker, Councillor and Olympian my question is for David and Amelia what do you want to see you know for future PNG NRL players coming through grassroots and through to the elite and retirement what do you want to see in terms of mental health support for those athletes yeah awesome question and it's a tough one as well I think growing up in the islands mental health is not spoken of like and if you're going through something you just tough it out you know do what you got to do and move on and we're seeing a lot more awareness about mental health and mental agility especially here in Australia but not so much in Papua New Guinea because you know if you're if you're feeling down if you're going through something they're like you know what are you doing get up and go to work and do something like there's there's actually no talk about it well there's no awareness at all but with the athletes coming through I think when they're exposed to the the environment and and sort of what we're exposed to here and especially if there's a PNG NRL team I'm sure there'll be a counsellor and there'll be a well-being officer like all of that involved as well slowly opening their mindsets that it's okay to talk about things you know if you're going through something especially when you're injured or if you don't make a team I know those things are really important especially like coming through the system in Australia as well and and when you oh when you're a woman as well I mean it throws a whole lot of hardships along the way as well because there's no help there at the moment you know if you're injured you just sort of left to the side you've forgotten about similar to when you're retired like you know if you're a big name last year once you retire like who are you and that plays a mental game with with a lot of athletes that are transitioning out of that um elite face to you know you're used to everyone doing everything for you walking in things are set up this is how the day is going to one day you retire and you're like okay like how is my day gonna look now do I have a backup plan have I got a job aligned once I finish my football career like what are my my plans now and I think that's so important as well and I touched base before you know rugby league provides an opportunity to go and play and play at that elite level and make a career out of it but you need to have a backup plan like what are you doing are you studying are you working what happens when you get injured like do you have something to fall back on having a good support system as well so I think moving forward um that's definitely uh the way to go as well is having someone there to to guide the athletes through and um and just making it okay to I think talk about it because you know as we know pub and you get inside and then that's like all islanders as well like we don't like to talk about our feelings we just you know get it done and move forward but that's um that's a really good good question and good point and I think moving forward that's something that definitely needs to be swikin about thank you very much we had a deputy governor wanted to say something and then test if you wanted to thank you very much daddy toka here so I won't stand up because I'll have my back towards it the rest of the audience so so my question will be for minister depart um I guess it's wonderful to hear your remarks minister and david's input Amelia um it's um you know that that's that's what we want to hear about the parts moving forward so my concern is this like uh everything we talk about here has to have a price tag on it so I'd now like to pose a question on fun because we we can plan as much as we want but um if the png government with the assistance of the Australian government and the private sector cannot um cannot assist you know the plans are putting in place with the relevant funding then this can all fall through and it's happened too many times in the past so I guess you're just a quick question to minister so he's um so I'm assuming the Australian government is looking at um putting some sort of a budget behind this bid that is literally the uh I'll say the $64,000 question rather than 64 million dollar question idiot look we're we're we're uh we're in regular discussions both with the png government and the nrl and the png nrl bid team um they've got to go through their internal processes and the nrl really have to work out how they want to run this whole process because there's at least three or four consortia have expressed interest in this whether it's um obviously png you've got norsini bears you've got a w a team you've got another Queensland team I think there's another New Zealand team that's floated interest there's lots of people interested in the nrl have to work at how they run it but we certainly from a federal government point of view recognize that I can't think of a single thing that we could do to bring the people of the two countries together so there is a huge diplomatic benefit and a nation building benefit from this initiative and so we are thinking and talking about how we could support it um we're not there yet but we recognize that um I'd make the point and I know we've got representatives from the resources sector here as well as others um I think I can't think of a single team that should get stronger corporate backing outside of the Broncos in terms of dominating entire states that a png cumbles time like I want quite frankly every single resource company in png in a fight to the death to who gets to be the jersey sponsor for this team I'm thinking in terms of sponsor social license supporting the png both men's and women's teams in the rugby league comp is a no brainer so we recognize that the Australian government will have a role supporting as I said we've already got the um 18 million dollars of annual funding for the osports program including I think it's about um six million dollars for rugby league already and most of that either goes to the nrl or qrl for the hunters we recognize that um we may need to step up but we're not at that stage yet but you're absolutely right daddy for this to work we need this to be done through both the nrl and the png nrl consortium and government to government okay so I guess the second part of my question is that I've got a few lined up up yeah will this obviously it it'll be part of the uh let's say the aid budget it may write in so well no well I guess well we're having to head towards will this affect the current aid that probably will get uh we haven't made any formal decisions I'll make the point that if we provide assistance and be very clear about this no decision has been made most of it will not be eligible will not be counted as eight so elements can so elements I'll just give you an example already the pacific osports program 18 million dollars a year there's an oda element so foreign aid element and that's like the team up program we we've got which promotes healthy lifestyles for kids in school basically play sport is a way about learning about diet and healthy lifestyle most of that money does not come out of the aid budget so of that 18 million I think it's 14 or 15 million dollars and I'm looking for representatives to correct me if I'm wrong yep I've got a thumbs up so about 15 million of that 18 million is not aid that's money we pay on top of aid because supporting elite pathways funding the nr the hunters into the Australian comp is not aid so what we're looking at is not part of our aid budget if we look at anything yeah okay no that that was just my yeah no we we are really proud to be the the biggest development partner of Papua New Guinea we're privileged and proud to spend invest rather around 600 million dollars Australian each year in the future development outcomes of the people of PG and that won't change with us okay sticking to the agenda budgets now with respect deputy governor we do have a question on the other side of the room we'll get you a stool this is a danger of giving a politician a mockery thank you my name is Tess Newton Kane I'm the project lead for the Griffith Pacific hub at Griffith University so just minister you touched on the development agenda for Papua New Guinea and as we know Papua New Guinea is a big country in the region that is is managing a whole range of issues across all sectors so given given that I am a huge supporter of sports diplomacy in the region and go go our nivano arty football players um I'm just concerned about the downside risk of the NRL relationship and but the fact that when you take NRL teams and the NRL culture into a country like Papua New Guinea it comes associated with sponsorship by online betting companies which is insidious to the point of being nightmarish it comes with sponsorship by alcohol companies 4x and 2e both sponsored the state of origin last week it comes with on and off field issues relating to racism on and off field issues relating to violence particularly gender-based violence how and then to introduce that or to introduce that even more so into a country like Papua New Guinea what what are the downside risks and how can they best be managed and I'm going to take a leap out of the deputy governor's book and ask a supplementary question you mentioned tourism I know that your vision of tourism was very much one way so it was Australians going to Moresby to watch football games in Moresby how are Papua New Guineans going to come and support their team when they're playing the Broncos or the Ruchas or whoever given the issues that are associated with getting visas in order for them to do that well thank you Tess and on that second question I can say that we've made significant investment in resolving those visa issues one of the announcements out of the 1.9 billion dollar pacific package we announced in the May budget was to establish a visa office in Port Moresby because this is a issue that gets raised with us a lot by P&G leaders and it's only through the direct sort of interventions of Prime Minister Marape and the Deputy Prime Minister and the Cabinet that we've made that investment we know we need to improve visa processing times and that's why that visa processing office will be established out of the budget and we want to see Papua New Guineans visiting this country and we want to make it easier my point about the tourism is I want Australians spending money in P&G like that's just important like I the one of the objectives of the Marape government is to diversify their economy used to have ownership of their resources and then diversify their economy we support that that's a great thing for P&G it's great great for every country but particularly with the challenges of P&G or on your earlier question test I'll make a couple of points I think every not every sport but I'm yet to see a professional sport that doesn't have sponsorship from betting agencies so this is a whole society challenge that we will have to face and there's a parliamentary inquiry going on right now into advertising around online betting same with alcohol alcohols legal and if they want to sponsor sports yes there's elements of anti-social behavior that you see in any sport I think right believe has prominence because these people are celebrities but what I can say you is that just we've got two ambassadors up here not just for rugby league not just for Papua New Guinea but for respectful relationships and that documentary was so powerful and what Amelia was talking about using right believe as a as a vehicle to combat gender equality in P&G is something that's also happening in Australia like I think the rise of the NRL women's competition here has been great because it's about gender equality so I'm not showing away from those issues I'm not showing away from some of the issues that sport has and rugby league is one example of it but I just think that I have seen the power of these programs in Papua New Guinea to actually get people talking about these issues I've gone to events in Australia where for example one of my local clubs the Macquarie Scorpions proud birthplace of lots of NRL players on the round against domestic violence they do events to highlight raising awareness we've got to do more of that sport is an avenue for that but I'm not showing away from the anti-social elements that we have to deal with thank you minister thank you for the questions can I invite some questions for Amelia and David in particular as well sir yeah hi I'm Jeff Richardson I've played at the highest level I was also in Papua New Guinea in 8345 at the international high school as a teacher I was chairman and president of the schoolboy rugby league and we ran carnivals and coaching courses and all that sort of stuff just looking just quickly just thought about what if the prime minister changes the next prime minister's not a rugby league me sorry I'll leave that with you impossible and PNG impossible and quickly will the other sports want to get the same assistance you know the netball teams in Papua New Guinea want to get the Australian government to help them as well anyway just going back to the schoolboy and pathways the pathways is a big one David and you spoke on it here I sometimes think that some of the 18 and 19 year olds are coming to the league should be playing club rugby league and working the things out for themselves instead of at 14 and 15 being told in a certain part of the field you do this and a certain part of the first do that okay that's just my beef on the pathways you know do you see I'd see some more scholarships being given to the 15 16 year old children I'll say children they're not just rugby league players but netball is another sport even marble players to come to Australia and go to the school and the joint clubs here could I see some 18 19 year olds who have missed out on the hunters being drafted into every NRL team in Australia to go through their pathways yeah so there's a whole lot of development that needs to be done there you know just on schoolboy trips Peter Sterling was in the New South Wales schoolboy side the tour of Papua New Guinea in 1974 so that's been going on for quite a while it has lapsed over the years the little screen that entertains some of the children in Australia and also some of the children in Papua New Guinea is taking kids away from their free play in the village and free play in our backyards if you drive around Australia in the streets at 4 30 and 5 o'clock in the afternoon now you'll see a couple of junior sporting teams training but you won't see kids kicking your football or throwing a cricket ball around in the street which years ago used to happen so there's a whole development pathway which has got to be done look in Papua New Guinea some people here probably don't realize but if you there's a national competition up there with about six teams I think or 18 the Highlanders Versailles Islanders years ago used to be a real origin thing it was almost warfare wasn't it though but some of the people that play in the town competitions in Moorsby and Laid they go and play in village football in the off season so they pluck it nearly all year round so there's a big avenue there I just go back to funding as well you know yeah who's going to fund this in the late 60s and early 70s there was professional rugby league teams in Papua New Guinea that was paying as much money as any country team in Australia and Australians who didn't get to go to Sydney to play went to Papua New Guinea to play for steamships and and DCA so whether that's going to build up again up there getting sponsorship money is the big thing it'll take a lot of money on tourism and also taking people up to play to fly to Moorsby is really as much as to fly to Paris or London so the airfares will swap a lot of people in travel tourism and I think our link with Papua New Guinea in Australia goes back to the early 40s in the Second World War and if people got a hold of that you'll see how important Papua New Guinea and Australia are to one another and rugby league yeah I hope it does work and it comes through so the whole pathway seems going to happen could any responses from from Amelia or David on the pathways point and then we'll give the minister a chance just now I think pathways that's what that's what I'm focused on I know Scotty from PNG Hunters you know we've spoken about creating pathways for PNG because a lot of the challenges that come with playing at the top level is in PNG is you're not being challenged to play essentially against men until you're 23-24 so you know the earlier you can get that opportunity you know with the right training the better it is for the sports itself so I mean there's a whole pack you know the whole lot of things to be unpacked I mean what you just said there but yeah I think pathways are very important place to focus on alongside this NRL bid. Amelia any reflections for you? I agree I think that's where it needs to happen is start young and you don't know wait till you know they're getting into like you know I use the voice for example into the Hunters program to learn how to catch and pass probably or get their footing right in defense like you won that second hand like you started from from young and when you're coming into the professional system or semi-professional system you already know the basic skills you know starting from scratch and then you're well prepared for it to enter the professional arena and if I can just add something about we need to be careful and again this is something for the NRL and the PNG can sort him if they're successful to work out but as a keen fan I think people shouldn't automatically assume that every single player that plays for them certainly in their initial years will be a Papua New Guinea heritage like it has to have a PNG identity that is critical it must be a team that the people of PNG own and have connection with but not even the New Zealand Warriors or the Auckland Warriors at the time when they came in not every player who started for them was a Kiwi there was a sprinkling of experienced Australian players who were part of that it had a Kiwi identity it was the New Zealand's team and that's something that are people should be a bit pragmatic about the critical thing is the pathways the critical thing is that the culture and heritage and ownership if Papua New Guinea and if there's a few a sprinkling of experienced players for the NRL that have other heritage might be other Pacifica players that's a good thing that mix is there this is a PNG team but with a broader cross-section which will help de-risk it to some extent. Hello everyone my name is Mary and Kapuli and I have a small cultural awareness business for those that are interested in working or partnering with Papua New Guinea's Amelia I have a question for you lovely to meet you in person you said something that really struck a chord with me and that was you can't see what you can't be for a young woman in PNG that want to play sport is there a social mindset that we have to get over like are they immediately wanting to play sport or is it too patriarchal they've got a place in society which doesn't allow them to play sport how big do you feel is that gap to breach to get them wanting to play sport in the first instance. Yeah really nice to meet you and great question I think that gap is getting closer and closer initially you know like growing up a female you know such a male dominated country you know you're brought up to be you know a stay at home mom you know be in the kitchen cook food all that but now we see the generation coming through like they're starting to have a voice and I think rugby league and sport in general gives them that voice as well you know they're able to like what I said before you know you can't be what you can't see they can see players now that look like them that physically look like them and they you know come from their villages as well playing on tv I'll use Elsie as an example again but you know a girl in the village watching that they're like oh you know she looks like me she she she can play and she can and play on tv I want to be like that so for them they're starting to see that a young age now and coming through I think their mindset is shifting but also I think it's more important for the males of the society for them mindsets to shift as well and I think it's slowly happening we've got a long way to go but we're on the right path to to get there and yeah I think rugby league is such a great vehicle to drive that change thank you deputy governor please so it's um one second yes you are correct in saying that gap is closing it's uh we've also got a bearing in mind that back in the 80s and the 70s put more of your rugby league or pub or rugby league there were women's competitions back then um and and now it is like yeah we're just the discussion is in play that I know the hunters are doing it I know uh diesel copies doing it there are talks um underway in preparing women's women's competition so I think we need to be aware of that that this is it's not something that hasn't been done or it's been done in the past but somehow we lost our way and we're now getting back into it so um yeah so I just want to add on to that that there are discussions and our women's comp should be up very soon we turn sponsors great any other questions from the audience please uh right now we're not uh Tara I'm a Griffith student and PMG student association community never um we touched on sort of the bid if if off that announcement and and with the commissioners comments of having a team-based account first of all David it'll be there what's your view on that and secondly if the bid does gain momentum as we get closer to the license date will there be a push by the Australian government to have the team-based in png yeah um well my view on the team-based being based in Cairns initially I think it's a great idea uh what Mr Conroy touched on about getting players to go represent png I think that's going to be one of the main challenges you know signing a Adam Reynolds um getting him to Port Moresby there's going to be some challenges there with that as well and I'm not saying it's going to be for everyone but if it's in Cairns initially to kick things off I think that's probably the best way to start it and I know there's um junior rugby league um programs in in Cairns to help support that team attracting players to sign to the team it will be much easier to you know to create a solid foundation solid culture because you're not you're not going to have all Papua Indians just going and playing for that team there's just no no pool of players it's very minimal pool of players to choose from and so Cairns makes perfect sense to me because a nice tropical place and you know not too cold up there so I'm sure everyone want to sign it I signed at Cairns over Sydney in that in that from that perspective it makes sense to me I definitely support it yeah I think so too I think um like David said you know if you're going to ask someone and this is again from the female perspective but if you're going to ask you know and Isabel Kelly or Jesu just to come play for our PNG NRL team and say hey move to Port Moresby and play for us you know they're going to look at one safety are they able to go for a run around the block at six o'clock in the night that's when they finish work and they come home and that's when they go to train like realistically speaking that Cairns would definitely be a better way to go and just like David said you know there's very minimal pool of women to choose from as well to to play in the NRLW so starting off I'm in Australia and having a combination of everything and for also for like the staff as well I think um to you know have 50 50 or 60 40 or whatever it is but for the Australian staff to come over and and take the PNG staff under their wings and teach them and educate them as well and and bring them through so that you know in the future five ten years down the line we're able to stand our own feet because we've we've got the resources backing us and we've got the education and now we can you know fly on our own kind of thing thank you now we have time for after that we've have time for one more question so I think I think we need to be careful when we when we're saying that um you know they can't come and stay in Port Moresby and you know we've got the Hunter's staff there we've got expatriates that are living in Port Moresby um you know they've bought their families in so I think we need to reconsider that and just be careful at how it's all because I think Port Moresby is getting better uh it does have its you know challenges but we're working through that and uh and if we're talking what the you know what the what the federal government is thinking it's I think you know I think the base has to be Port Moresby we've got to sell it as as the destination as well as you know as well as the identity of this team so you know I mean we we can have this debate after after this has been yeah I'll probably just jump in there as I'll I'll I'll probably didn't stand there right but I think just initially to get like you know strong players at a club to start uh start the club I know Dolphins had that challenge because that perception we need to change as well and I've always been asked you know is this Port Moresby safe you know and the feedback's been you know what I've spoken to my friends they stay in the resorts and I said well your friends in your friends need to get out of the resort and go walk the streets of Port Moresby huge expat community that lives in PNG they live you know they live like life's just normal yeah there's places that you need to avoid you know but people have been there for a very long time and I spoke to Tim about that recently I've spoken to many people you know I've lived there myself I'll go back there myself I walk the streets safety is the number one concern but I guess from my perspective they're talking about getting players to Port Moresby the challenges for that Red Cliff Dolphins face I think Port Moresby will face much bigger challenges than that so it wasn't necessarily about safety because I do get upset when I hear that safety perception as well I'm not I'm not denying it it does exist but people who go stay in the hotels come back and give their feedback they need to get out and walk the streets of Port Moresby or they'll find a much different experience if they do who is the brave soul I was willing to ask the last question something you've been burning to but too afraid now is your chance well I well we've got a hunter's representative here I see them as complimenting each other like again um well again this is not a formal government decision I should preface that I'm not here to sign a check in perpetuity but those pathways for me are both the 14-year-olds playing in Moresby in the Highlands in late coming through Centres of Excellence into the PNG team but all the NRL sides also have feeder teams all over the place like Newtown Jets have been a bloody partnered with five different NRL clubs like the PNG hunters have been a success story them and the Fijian silk tails in the Ron Massey Cup in New South Wales have been great for Pacific Rugby League and we want to continue that and I want the sort of I want the 17-year-old Papua New Guinea kid blooded in the hunters and also quite frankly I want people who are like bloomers to come through the system so the state-based competitions are really important and I wouldn't want us to do anything at an NRL level that means that we we lose the success that is the hunters and I think that's something we should make very clear they all compliment each other thank you minister okay folks that's all that's the time that we have allocated for this I do invite you to continue the discussion with those sandwiches that I mentioned earlier made some big promises now I can't see through that wall but I really hope they're there before we do that can you please give a round of applause for our panelists today Amelia Cook David me minister Pat Connery thank you so much for joining us this has been a Lowey Institute os png network event and thank you all for joining us if you're watching this online you'll know this because you're watching it but for those of us here today this has been recorded and will be published online that's something to think about but thank you all and please bear in mind the minister has a plane to catch so please please be kind as you try to buttonhole him on the way out the door thank you all