 Hello everyone. Can you hear me well? Hey John, well I'm here to talk about UX strategy and it's a really interesting topic for me because I started quite a long time ago and I went through different companies around the world and I just want to share a little bit of the insights I go during all this time. So this is me, you can verify that it's me. Since I was a kid I always wanted to grow a beer so I'm living the dream right now. I come from Buenos Aires and I live in a couple of different places and now here in Singapore I'm really happy to be here today. During my career I went through a different spectrum of roles from graphic designer to interface engineering. I'm still trying to figure out what that means. So if you guys want to reach out to me I'm on Twitter. There's a link in Twitter to more ways of getting in touch so if you guys want to share some thoughts about this presentation or whatever you guys want to share I'm open to have a conversation so please go ahead. For today so I want to tell you guys where everything started for me. I want to talk about a little bit the cost of not having a UX strategy in your company. I want to talk a little bit about value. What's UX or design brings us valuable to companies in different stages. I have some tips on how you guys can start defining your own strategy and then I want to bring an example of what a user-driving corporation means and what they're doing right now. I think it's really inspiring and then if we have time I have more stuff to share. So our main focus for today is basically UX and strategy related to user experience. So what's the first thing comes to your mind when you think about UX? That's the first question I asked myself when I started thinking about this presentation. If you go to Wikipedia user experience refers to a person emotions and attitude about using a particular product system or service. When I think about UX the first thing that comes to my mind are these two nice fellows right here. So I guess most of you are familiar with them. They're huge guys. Don Norman and Jack of Nilsen. They started their own consultancy Nilsen Norman group in 1998 and since then are being like the leading boys on a lot of things related to user experience and how we build products. And if you go to their web page you're going to find slightly different definition. They say that user experience encompasses all aspects of end user interaction with the company, its services and its products. So it's a bit wider that shows product and service. This is Don and Jack of. It's a killer name for any rock band if you ask me. Pretty cool. But this is a really old topic. I didn't start in 1998 with these two fellows. It goes way, way back. And for me started with understanding usability or getting involved in usability as a discipline. I started designing interfaces a long time and when I first heard of our usability I didn't understand really well what it was about. So I tried to really dive to take a really deep dive on it. And I learned a lot of things that I was doing wrong. And I learned tools and different aspects of my own discipline basically. And it helps me improving my game a lot in how to approach products and how to make them better. I had the amazing opportunity to be part of the World's Elite Day a couple of times in the early 2000s. And I met incredible people that inspire me a lot. And I think the main takeaway from that experience was we were here to solve problems for people. And that's the main thing. And when as soon as I understood that I was like, okay, so I'm actually making a difference. I'm really happy to be here now. So what we're trying to do is like we make a huge effort to make a really complex process simple and accessible. Usability 15 years ago, we were saying a lot of things about it. One of them was it can improve your return of investment in like 153%. And that was huge. Like if you think about it, improving that return in 153% is like awesome. And we were talking about simple things, gorilla, usability and user research, cheap and quick methods with pen and paper or pencil and paper. And it was easy to execute. It was easy to get value really quickly. When I say return of investment, I meant any of these things like conversion rate, traffic numbers, user performance or any target feature usage. Back then it was simple. Just grab a paper, start drawing things, show it to people and you get like completely, you realize how wrong you are on the first sketch. And that was really interesting for me because like when I was starting doing this all around me, I was so for developers with fancy computers and like gadgets and things. And they were making fun of me because they thought, man, you're bringing your kindergarten experience to the company. Like, you know, crying and doing colors on paper. That was really fun. Five years later, that number went down 85%. And that's really interesting to ask why. We were like 153% return of investment to 85%. Well, basically, that happens because we as a professionalist, we learned a lot. We did a lot. A technology got up and stood up for all the standards we were trying to push. We started getting guidelines and better information on how to build products. But the user research budget stood the same. So it's not like we step up in a lot of places except for the main ones. So picture that like back then, common conversion rate average was 1%. Today is 3%. That means like users also learn a lot of things and they're like used to specific patterns on how to interact with products. This is me 10 years ago. This is actually me with a braid and everything. So with a couple of frameworks, a browser and a computer, we can just build a prototype really quick, iterate on the same day, show it to people, get some insights and keep modifying the prototype in the same day. And that was like a huge value for the company. And when they started realizing that, they started paying more attention. So as cheap as you can, this is one of the tips I wanted to share, as cheap and as fast as you can do this, it's always a great kickstart to start showing value to your peers or your managers. Usability today has like bigger challenges, right? There's new devices and peripherals. It's not just screens. It means a lot more like, you know, gestures and I don't know, voice control, self-driving things all around, AR, VR. We have data science is incredible. The things you can do with machine learning today is out of this world. I mean, back then I was thinking about how can we improve things. And now with all the technology we have on our reach, we're actually living in the future. Now I realize we're living in the future. Of course, scary AI, that I'm really scared about it, but we can talk about it later. So if you see Luke Wilson research, well, it's not research, it's about just visualization of the research. You can see that right now, the decline in market is screens. So if we only keep paying attention to screens, we're going to have left behind a lot of things. Big screens are fading away. I'm not saying they're going to go away, but they're like fading away. You know, hand computers like phones and tablets are now the rulers. And there's an emerging market that is really interesting. I mean, who owns like an Alexa or in a Google home? Like there's, some people have, thank you. Some people have those things right now. And I'm pretty sure they're really useful for specific things. So even the cars already have like voice controls. So basically we need to start coming up with new recipes, right? We used to have, we went through a phase where research was difficult and it became easy. And we were talking about screens and different challenges. Now challenges are getting wider. So we need new recipes. If you take a look of this little graph here, you can see how technology is actually catching up with us. So yeah, as fast and as quick we can get this done, it's going to be much better. But let's back a bit to the main topic. So usability was the kick starter for me. And then I learned a lot during my career. And I went through different companies and I started realizing there's, apart from the fact that there's different maturity levels on design and UX in different places, there's two things that I'm worried about. There's a like immediate cost of not having a good strategy. And there's an imminent cost of not having it, right? So for me, this is my subjective view on it. The immediate cost brings like, there's no clear objectives, right? There must be like, probably they want to make money. That's clear. We all want to make money. But there's no direction. So usually teams are running in circles trying to go fast, but they're going nowhere. There's a lot of copy and paste like following the competitions or looking at these main brands, how they do things. And basically we're just copying the same problems they have without realizing. People become task oriented. So we lose the value of collaboration between teams. And what happens usually is like, I got something to do, I just do it and then just pass it on. And contrary to have a collaboration with other teams, we can add value to the small task and they start adding up and it's completely different. Being task oriented creates gaps in between the areas, right? It's really bad for the company. There's bad communication, nobody takes ownership of what they're doing. There's absolutely no room for innovation. And that's something that worries me in this particular time, right? We're talking about an incredible, you know, emerging market of new gadgets and possibilities and we're not taking care of it. And then the assumption-based design, there is a shock we have in the office when, you know, a director of a manager comes with a requirement and they actually don't know about it but they're pushing it really hard because they believe that their assumptions are going to be a success with no validation whatsoever. And then the imminent cost is you're going to end up with a low quality product or you're going to have like low quality service and that this is really bad for conversion, right? You're going to have bad sales, there's going to be no growth. The low return rates are really, really bad for any kind of company. There's going to be a constant rework. I'm okay with reworking as long as we know where we're going, right? And this is a huge expense if you don't know where you're going and you need to rework every day because somebody don't like it or the manager doesn't feel like it's good enough. The team is going to be demotivated and they're going to lose the passion of what they're doing and that's an incredible huge cost for any company, just people going for the paycheck and nothing else. And it creates a really bad company culture, like I left companies because they didn't want to change. They actually was, they were driving like only making money or showing off some numbers. And it's really difficult to attract talent. When you bring talent and they start asking you about, whoa, how you solve these problems? What's your process? And you try to say, we want to do this, we want to do that, but we're not doing it. It's really, really difficult. I'm sure you're familiar with more different problems in a company that doesn't have a strategy. I just try to enumerate a few of them. But it's not all about money in UX, right? It's not about how much money we can make if we invest a little bit in design process. It's about people. It's about people. It's about understanding their needs. It's about understanding how to think, how to feel, how to help them. It's about empathy, emotion, empowerment, motivation, fun, accomplishment, right? When you have, when you have a good process in your company and you spend like a lot of effort with your team trying to solve a problem and then you validate that solution and then you get a successful feature out there and people start using it and you see their reactions. That's really, really, it's a great motivation for you and for your for your teams. So who, have you ever heard something like this? I mean, it happened to me like a long, a long time, too many times and recently as well. So focus on the Queen wins as long as directional and they're directional and they're focused on actually things that make sense. I think it's fine, right? I'm not, I'm not against it, but focus on quick wins sometimes is a trap, man. You're gonna, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna go for it, you're gonna build it, you have no validation on the things you're building and then you're gonna need to change it until somebody likes it and that could be your manager or yourself, I don't know. So I'm not saying don't focus on the quick wins, try to be, have a methodology to identify those. We were asking for, for some time and budget for doing a research and a really important project on our company and I heard this, this from a product director, like he stopped the meeting and it says guys, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a user as well, I know what we need. And so my face was sort of like this, trying to understand what he meant, like you're, you're one user, you're all the users, like what are you trying to say? So finally we convinced him to, to move forward with the research and we sent our researchers all over Southeast Asia to collect a lot of information about how sellers, how buyers perceive sellers, right? It was really broad and our researchers came back with a really interesting report and we were in the meeting and we were showing this, I don't know if you can, I mean it doesn't make, doesn't make sense to talk about the results, but what it makes sense is we asked, we asked the buyers if they were willing to pay more, if they had, you know, sellers with good ratings that it makes sense and most of them, they says yes, that's more valuable for me than just good prices. And this, the same guy said something like what? In the meeting on the meeting and I was, then I realized that this guy has like this, you know, this visceral feeling that it was wrong, the research was wrong and he expressed it like that and I felt so bad. I mean, I felt angry. I was like, dude, we sent people over all the countries and we asked them questions and they replied, it's not like we came up with these graphs to try to convince you. So I think if we go really high level, one of the problems I saw more often in different organizations is there's a, you know, there's a process that is pretty linear. So business come with a request, design thinks a really good solution or the best solution they can in that like constraint of time and then engineering does the best he can to deliver. And of course, this creates gaps because business has their own expectations, design interpret those expectations and create his own expectations and so on. So that creates a lot of gaps in something that it should be unified, right? But this is something I say sometimes. It has no value to say things where you're against. I don't think that's valuable at all to communicate. I think what defines us is to say what we're in favor of or what we like and express, you know, I speak Spanish, so it's not exact translation. Spanish sounds much nicer. So what I've been learning these last years is like the best user experience doesn't come from one place. It comes from a lot of places at the same time, right? It's an effort of a lot of things combined. It's not just one perfect pixel or one perfect business strategy or one perfect line of code. It's about how those things combined create a better experience. And the spectrum of this overlap is huge. There's so many things inside, right? So it makes no sense to split it. I don't think it's wrong. Sometimes it works, but from my point of view, it doesn't make sense to split it. So usually we see today, there's amazing tools to actually bring this to life. And one of them is design thinking, but it tries to grab all these things with a framework to solve problems and set a same direction for all the areas at the same time. And simply because UX is a reflection for all the areas combined, it's not just one or the other. John Mehta says the role of designer is constantly changing, and he changed his relationship with the way business changed and technology changed. And I think it's really accurate if you think about it, right? At the beginning, designers or thinkers were pushing forward with really innovative ideas, and it was really hard to build those things. Then technology got up and got it right. And now we have more technology available, and we can do incredible things. So I think it's time to design push again. And if you think about the tools we have today available, why shows thinking about the product of their service? Why don't think about wider? How we can make the entire company solve problems in a way that is effective and is iterative and is actually adding value to everyone? Because I said before, UX brings a lot of interesting tools, so I think it's time we start using it all over the place. So I had, I showed this talk or this deck before to different people, and I got really interesting feedback. I would like to hear you guys what you think after. So they told me, well, okay, so UX is really valuable. I got it, right? It brings a lot of really cool things to the table. But how you can quantify that value? Like how do you, how can I bring information that is, I don't know, to my business manager and tell them this is what we should doing because this is the, you know, the fact. This is the number. So, and I talked with business guys and they told me, yeah, I understand the process. I understand everything, but I need to make more money. So I tried to come up with different strategies to do it. And I'm telling them, well, this will help you. And I brought some information about it. So you can just share with your peers or managers as well. So there's something called the design value index. Design Management Institute, I think it's a London company came up with this. And basically what they do is they grow a lot of design-led companies and they compare it in the stock market with other companies that are like the, they're not, or they're not design-led. And the index prove that companies which make effective use of design outperform the peers and it confirms that design is an integral part of a good management, right? It's not about pixels, it's about management now. And if you look at the graph, the results over the last 10 years over, you can see design-led and emerging index companies, red and yellow on the top. And then all the other measurements are down there. It's like a 200 plus improvement. And we're talking about money. We're talking about stock market here. So I think this is a good proof to say companies that are being led by design, not by pixels, but design as a way of solving problems are way more valuable than other companies. The Design Console in also London published a report in 2007 called The Value of Design. The Value of Design proves evidence of how business in the UK, businesses that use design in different aspects of their company, not just organizational, but also service, product, marketing, whatever you want to call it. And they come up with some insight. The report is pretty long. You have the link down there if you want to see it. But I just brought like three main items that I thought were really interesting. So the first one is we already share it, right? The design-led businesses outperform key stock market indices by 200%. That's convincing to me right there. But if you're not convinced, there's another quote that is really interesting that says, every 100 pounds are designed out of business spend on design increased to no around 225. And that's also really valuable. And the last one says like, on average, design out of business increased their market share by 6.3% through the use of design. So you can read the report that's pretty interesting, but it's pretty old. So 207, right? It's quite old. So if we go further in time, in 2014, Shane Ray grew up that report and he amplified a little bit more. And you find out that that's true, like implementing designing new companies really value and makes you earn more money. But he also found that he helped you also reducing costs, right? And in case of Procter & Gamble, he reduced costs by 1 billion a year. Shows by designing a new process to create a different kind of plastic that is way better, that is like normal standard, right? Is thinner, is cheaper to make, is environmentally friendly, and some other things. If you move today, there's another report that I think is really interesting to read, at least to see the facts, to have a clear argument when your manager says we need to move this fast. Well, but we can make more money, right, if we do it this way. This report examines the skills of design in the company, not just the return of investment. And basically, design skill, one of the findings is design skills are connected to innovation, like that's straightforward. If you want to be an innovative company, you need to bring these elements to your company. Well, and then there's like 10 pounds per hour, more productive than UK average in any other company. And the design skills are worth 209 billion only in the UK, and their value is growing faster rate than the wider UK economy. And that freaks me out a little bit, like whoa, means like design skill now should be a must, right? We all need to start training on those. And I have much more, so more examples, but I think it's going to be boring. It was talk about numbers all the time. So I'm going to mention some things, and then we'll move on, right? So there's also really interesting findings on, you know, startups that we all know, like how Sendez increases the usage of the search function four times and article views in eight times. That's a pretty interesting success as well. You really need to roll out to 80 different cities and keep on innovating. That's a really interesting example to look around. If you Google these examples, you're going to see the reports, you're going to see the numbers. Airbnb, when it started, they were making 200 euros a week. And they went into, they tried to understand what was the problem, why we're not growing. And they realized the quality of the pictures was really bad. So what they did, they had no money, right? They flew to New York to the people who was publishing their apartments. They rented a camera, a high definition camera, and they took pictures of the apartments that were published back then. And they're increasing their revenue in 400 euros. So they went to 200 euros in one week to 400 euros a different week. And then they keep doing the same process of understanding what are the problems, why people is not renting. And now they're like freaking huge. They're all over the world. They're making a lot of money. This example for me is really interesting because Nike dropped the spending on marketing 40%. And somehow they increased the sales by 25 billion. And that's impressive, like how they did it. They changed the entire strategy on how they left disrupted transportation industry and who would copy them and then did it and then like all the other companies that just follow the same. So to recap this section just quickly, we're basically here to solve problems, right? That's what it is. And great UX comes from a collaborative effort, not just us pushing pixels or writing code or making business strategy better. Design lead companies create more value. That's proven. You can see the reports. And good design also can help you to reduce the cost of your company. That's also really positive. And a strong strategy keeps the team engaged and motivated. So what I see that a good strategy of UX comes live in a company brings a lot of value as well, but in worse, right? Not just about product and numbers and sales. Apart from all these things, having a clear and unified vision helps the team to follow the same route and fight the same battles and be more cohesive. The interdisciplinary collaboration is really interesting if you ever experience it. Like when you have a point of view and then somebody from business or from tech or from marketing chips into your idea and it becomes bigger and better and wider, right? You start seeing the problem from different perspective. UX is objective. It's data-driven, right? You do the research. You do your validation. You look at the numbers. You look at people using the product. So it's objective. And there's no room to discussion when you have a good research or research well done. And it brings innovation all around. You're always thinking outside the box because you know your constraints. You know your users. You know your context. You know everything. And it creates new business opportunities. It allows new crazy ideas, try new things, and suddenly you realize there's this opportunity to create a new unit business in your company. So aim higher, man. Don't be just a pixel pusher, right? So I thought bringing this Escher quote that I think is really interesting. You need to attempt the absorb in order to achieve the impossible. And I think it's really interesting coming from him that he was a great artist and he always tried these new geometrical and crazy perspectives. So some tips about what happens when you start your own strategy, right? I think every company is different. They have different goals. They have different ways of doing things. They have different cultures. So I think the main thing here is to just take small steps, right? If you want to change everything at the same time, it might be risky because getting everyone on board is really difficult. So first of all, you need to understand what's the current step, like where you are, where you want to be. And when you know where you want to be, just document the vision. Like you just create a document and you write it down, right? What are you aiming for? So everyone can just like relate to it and access to that information. Just create a roadmap, you know, where you are, where you want to be. Create all the steps in between and try to achieve, you know, small things. If you set achievable goals, it's going to be easier to execute, it's going to be way easier to communicate, it's going to be easier to achieve. And every time you achieve one, you're going to feel awesome, right? Define the key metrics, get all the data you can, right? Try to set up your teams to actually look at that information if it's like a tracking system or it's a research, whatever. And know your constraint and get your proper tools. I don't remember who said that, but I think it's really accurate. Designers thrive in constraints. So that's also a really good tip. If you want to be accurate with your design and you want to create amazing things, you need to set up your constraints, your time constraints, you know, your technical constraints, etc. If you propose yourself to make a design in one day and then test it, probably it's more valuable that if you spend a week just looking at the details. And try to get everyone on board, like your peers, your superiors, your managers, you know, your reports, tell them what you want to do, tell them what you want to accomplish, tell them how you want to do it, what are the steps, and try to get feedback on the process constantly, review and iterate constantly. Because it's not just about the product, it's about how you reach to build the product as well. And take it slow. I mean, yeah, baby steps. So I thought about bringing an example of how this happening in a big corporation, because it's inspiring, at least for me. And every time I think about user-driving corporations, there's like two big names that come to my mind, right? The first one, not the best one, but the first one that comes to my mind is Google. I think they did a great job after the 2000, they come up with this integrated kind of look and feel and experience for all the products. And that was really challenging. And right now they're like leading as well on how we should do things. And I think it's really cool. The other one that comes to my mind is Apple, of course. Apple has a design at this core. You know, Don Norman was the first one to define what are the design guidelines for this company. And some of them that are still around. So we're like pretty strong. And Apple, of course, they build awesome products. I'm an Apple boy myself. I have an iPhone and things. Of course, they had a few setbacks. Not everything on Apple was incredible and amazing. But I thought about bringing a different example, a more challenging one, something that we don't relate with it every day. This company used to build hard drives. They started doing computers really in the early ages. And now they're building really powerful and interesting devices. I'm talking about AVM. Look at this monster, right? AVM is leaving a huge transformation. It's incredible. They decided to bring design at the core of the company. And in order to do that, they aimed to hire 1,000 designers and train the entire workforce, like everyone, in how the design thing works, from executives to interns. And that's really powerful. And they call in design thinkers. And I think it's really interesting to make this distinction. They're not designers. They're not engineers. They're design thinkers. So a new way of, not new, but a different way of thinking. And the transformation goes like, it's impressive. They have people in 175 places. They're over 300,000. And they're basically expanding the role of design to design thinking framework. They have their own version of it. And they say that will enable the company to humanize solutions for real world problems. And they use the word humanize. I think it's really powerful. It engloves all the things that we're living, right? I think they're doing a great job. I actually love them. I had the chance to see some of the presentations around. And they're really inspiring. Because they were like a data commercial driving company a few years ago. And now they're doing all this huge transformation. And they're doing something interesting inside a company that I thought it was sharing that is, they're changing the design or developer ratio. And they're changing it. And it's a huge trend right now. For the impact they're having is pretty interesting. Because in 2012, there was one designer every 72 colors. And that's like a lot of colors for one designer. Today, they have one designer every eight colors. And they have one mobile designer every three colors. And that rate is huge if you think about it. The transformation they're going through is impressive. And this happened in the last decade. They started this process quite a long time ago. And they're still going on. And they're not the only ones. They're not the only ones. A lot of companies go into the same trend. They realize that the design thinking framework is a powerful, powerful tool. And in order to bring this new way of thinking inside a big company, they're doing all these things to change it. And designer developer ratio was a huge problem back then in 10 years ago. I mean, I was one designer with $50 developers. And it happens to me in a lot of companies. And it was really hard to comply with so much demand. But if you're clear on your direction and you do take the baby steps, there's a lot of people who are going to start seeing the value right away and it will help you out. So that's pretty awesome. IBM, they're also working on their own framework that is based on design thinking. And I don't know if they're doing it for branding purpose or they're actually trying to improve it. I didn't experience this myself, but I read it on their website and encouraged you to take a look. There's a link down there. They call it the loop. And basically have three phases of serve, reflect, and make. So I'm pretty sure we can relate to this, right? First we research, then we understand, and then we build. The keys for this framework, they call it heels playback and sponsor users. And I think this is really interesting. Heels is the guidelines on how you're going to build your team in order to solve a problem, right? Here's a nice graphic so we don't see text only. Heels is how you accommodate your team, what kind of roles and expertise you need to solve a problem. The playbacks are basically the iteration, like how your team is going to interact over time. And the sponsor users, I think it's a great upgrade for the framework. Because what they do is they have this feature, they know the users they use the feature, and they get one of those users as a sponsor of the feature. So you actually have to interact with a real person to try your product or to understand how to improve it. And the main principles are focusing on user outcomes, it makes sense. Restlessness in brainvention, just reworking and working. And diverse and powerful teams. That's one of the most powerful things, right? Just have a diverse group of people trying to solve the problem. The responsible for all these is Carl Frendenburg. And I think I'm pronouncing it right, I think. So anyway, this guy is a designer academic and is doing this work in IBM and is really inspiring. I encourage you guys to take a look at his blog. And he has a podcast as well that is really interesting. It's one of my new, I'm a fan right now. I mean, I saw this guy talking in a few conferences and it's really interesting. So you can check it out there. The IBM site is really interesting. They documented the entire process and it's really insightful to see how a company thinks about design thinking. But if you guys want to know more about the framework, the original one, design thinking, Adobe has a really interesting documentation about it, right? So if you want to take a look, it's online workshop. You can do it like in a week or so. And it will give you a span of what's design thinking about, what are the tools around it, and how you can grab little pieces and bring into your company. So I got some more stuff to share. I tried to make it sweet and colorful. It's more entertaining. We're just about, and part of the talk. And I know I talk too much and I brought a lot of information as well. So I work at Lazara, right? Everyone knows Lazara here. So nobody knows Lazara. I see two hands. That's good. More, more. Okay. Good. So Lazara operates here in Southeast Asia for the guys who didn't raise their hand. It's an e-commerce platform. Now we're working with Alibaba Group. So we're joining forces and a lot of things. It's really interesting face on the company. But to share a little numbers, Lazara is pretty huge in Southeast Asia. There's a lot of users. There's a lot of transactions. There's a lot of things happening on mobile. There's a lot of things happening socially. And there's really, really interesting things that we want to do in the company. And from the UX team, and we thought about a lot of things that we were doing wrong, right? We knew that there was a lot of things we can improve. Let's call it like that. A lot of opportunities. Maybe a little more positive. So I thought about sharing some key things that we did to start driving change in the company. And believe me, guys, it's really difficult. It's not like we implemented this and we're good. Like it's an ongoing effort. But the first thing we did with the team was, okay, how we want to solve problems. Where we want to be when this is awesome, right? When the process is done and we're working as we want. So we went on and we defined a process. The team did a great job doing this. And we documented. We documented all the faces to what we think we should be doing to understand and build the product, right? We documented from the intent, current state, future state, design, and the test phase. We defined the objectives, some considerations, the actions, collaborators, and the expected outcome from each stage. And this is really important because it's a reference material. Every time you're doing something, you can go back to it and say, ah, okay, I can just do all these things now. I can just push the team to do more research or do this and that. Apart from defining the process, we run a couple of workshops. We thought, okay, we're going to bring the product development team together and we're going to run a creative workshop using this framework. So we can raise a little bit more awareness of how we can use these tools to solve problems. And that went really, really well. This happened, I think, online. It started in Vietnam, right, John? Vietnam. And it was an online workshop also together with the Bangkok office. And the results were awesome. Then all the product people was talking about the same things. Then we also, according to the projects, when we raised a little bit the awareness level, we got into the projects and we said, hey, guys, you're trying to solve this problem? Okay, we have this thing we can do. And it's really interesting. Let us try, just sitting, get together in a room for a while, run these tools, and you'll see what happens. And that was incredible. We got a list of new opportunities that we can execute right now and some others that we cannot because we don't have the platform for doing it. But the reaction of the company was intense. We also run some exploration workshops, basically to understand from the business unit that I want to try to push new businesses in the platform, okay, how we can approach these opportunities. And that was like incredibly positive. Now, different teams from the company are asking us to collaborate with them in running this process to understand how to move on and forward and do it quicker. And then we did a lot of noise, but this one in particular I really like. We created a club that runs every quarter. And last time we brought this movie from ambition that is called Design Disruptors. I highly recommend, guys, just take a look. We brought it in, we screened the movie and we had a conversation about design and product development and product design. And it was like completely insightful, not just the content of the movie, but the conversation we have with our own colleagues. So we're making a lot of noise and the company now is listening. So we define it, I think it worked and it's working because we define it achievable goals. And it wasn't that hard. We come up with the process, we generate some content to share, we run a few design workshops to level up the awareness, we brought content from outside to inspire all the people to understand what we're doing and we keep on making noise. So I'm about to finish, but I just want to show some pictures related to change, right? How about change and how difficult it is, right? So Andy Warhol said, they always say that time changes things, but you actually have to do it yourself. Time definitely changes things, but if you don't do nothing, this doesn't work either. So small steps, achievable goals, and you're going to get there. I know that sometimes it's really painful, like you're trying to push forward something, that's my wisdom too by the way. It was really painful. So you try to push something and people push back because they're afraid of change, they don't know what it's about. So bringing awareness, I think, is one of the first challenges. And it seems like an impossible task, right? That you're fighting against the status quo, and then it feels like it's an immense effort, but don't worry about it. I mean, you're not alone, right? You're going to start recruiting an amazing team for sure. You're going to get colleagues and peers for different companies. This is some of the guys from Alibaba and Lazara designers. They're all great. I can vouch for any of those guys. They're incredible people. And then know your standards. We don't need to reinvent the wheel like IBM is doing, or trying to fit a new framework. We don't need to do that. We can just pick it back on whatever is there already, and it's impressive and it's really cool. And go out and connect. Just let's have a conversation after this. Let me know what you think about what kind of problems are you running into. Maybe I can just give you a hint, or no, or maybe I learned something new. And go, you know, really go and connect like, I just reached out to this guy the other day and I told him, hey, I'm going to show some of your things on the conference. So what do you think about it? How do you feel about it? And he was thrilled. He could get back to me and we had a conversation. And I thought, I thought at the beginning, when I, when I did it, I was a little bit afraid that I was going to, you know, forget about it or ignore me completely. But definitely he didn't. He saw that I was trying to also drive a little change and I told him, just push me your data. Give me some more info, and some of this in the presentation already. And go out, get inspired, right? Talk with people, see what they're doing. Not only on work-wise, just go and watch a movie and try to bring some of that experiences back home. And try to inspire people as well, to show what you're working on. There's definitely an interesting conversation. Everyone, everyone knows something that somebody else doesn't know, right? And try to have fun, man. Don't make it, don't be stressed. Everything's going to be fine. It's, it's hard, but try to have fun in the middle. And that's it, guys. Thank you very much. You're the best. Thank you so much, Nathan. So we have one, we have one question. We only have time for one question, because we've been strapped for time and we had a very, very great sharing from Nathan. So is there anyone that wants to ask a question, perhaps? Okay, so you can find him afterwards. If you are too shy to ask right now, we'll present the token of appreciation to him. Thank you very much, Nathan. And it's a small thing from us. Thanks a lot for being here. Awesome. Yeah, no problem.