 This is Startup to Storefront, and today we're celebrating our one year anniversary. This is a moment that we are immensely proud of. One of our goals was to hit 50 episodes in the first year, and I'm happy to say that this is our 62nd episode. We've had honest conversations with our guests about the mental fortitude and delusion it takes to start a company, as well as the imposter syndrome that can accompany it. The irony is not lost on us that we interview entrepreneurs about the very trials and tribulations that we ourselves are experiencing in producing this podcast. But it has been an incredibly rewarding journey thus far, and one we're looking forward to continuing for a very long time. So no matter if this is your first episode or your 62nd, we thank you for tuning in and listening. We do this as a labor of love, and we hope it inspires and educates you as it does us. So without any further ado, today's guest is Orlando Soria, the designer, author, and the host of HGTV's Build Me Up. Build Me Up is feel-good television at its finest, as the show features Orlando renovating homes for people going through major life changes. Some of the episodes also feature our very own Natalia Capilini. The show stands out for Orlando's ability to listen and add his expertise to his clients' tastes and suggestions, taking their trepidation and uncertainty of the next chapter in their life and giving them an inspired new home that ushers them forward while still paying homage to where they've come from. So listen in as we cover everything from what it was like to grow up inside of USMD National Park, why he hires partners and not employees, and we give him perhaps his greatest challenge of all, redesigning my bedroom. Now, back to the episode. All right, welcome to the podcast on today's show. We have HGTV's Orlando Soria. Orlando, thanks so much for joining. Thank you. All right, thanks for having me. You're changing people's lives. I watched the last episode. It was an hour long, super beautiful, very touching. But before we get into the show, I wanted to ask you something magical that I think Natalia put me on to, which is you actually grew up in Yosemite. I did. Yeah, I grew up in Yosemite National Park very close to Yosemite Falls. So outside my bedroom window was the tallest waterfall in North America, and it was very wild and something that I didn't appreciate until I left and missed it a lot. Do a lot of people live there? How many people live there? There's about 800 to 1200 people. I think there's more in the summertime like college kids come and work there. But it's a very tiny community where everybody kind of like knows your stuff all the time. So it's interesting. I don't think most people appreciate where they're from until they leave. So it's definitely the most beautiful place in the world to me. And I'm very thankful that I grew up there. But it is a very odd thing. But yeah, so I grew up in a little cabin basically owned by the federal government. And probably some of my design interest comes from that because we weren't really allowed to obviously renovate it or do much to it because it was a rental cabin. So we were always painting and changing things around. But I think that I love like renovation and sort of home design so much because I like grew up in this place where we weren't fully allowed to do everything that we wanted to our house. That makes a lot of sense. Were your parents working? Were they were they associated in some way with the park? Yeah, so my dad was the dentist for the park. There's like a little medical clinic up there. And then my mom was home at your primary school. You know, I don't know that they like set out for their whole lives to live there. They always loved it. And an opportunity came up to to move there. They kind of jumped at it. So it's super weird. I don't know like many other people that grow up inside a national park. So I don't really know what to compare it to. You're the first. Yeah, literally the first. And so what made you at some point, right? You get this interest in design. Was it in high school college and you decide to go, let me go to the big city. Let me go somewhere maybe far away. Obviously you went to Cornell. And so what was that process like for you where you really said, okay, let me go and Natalia will share her story and how she got to architecture. But from your perspective, you know, what was the thing that really drove you into into the design world? So basically, like I never really knew I wanted to be a designer. But from a very young age, I've been designing spaces, like constantly painting my room, rearranging stuff with my mom, playing around with my college dorm room and making that really nice. But I never really like put two and two together, that that's what I wanted to do professionally. Like in high school, I thought I wanted to be a lawyer. I think because that sounded like a sort of successful thing to do. And I was ambitious. At Cornell, I studied government, which is basically like political science. And I studied art because I used my art to like get into college. And I liked both of those things. And then I like went to grad school to become an art professor and realize that was not for me. So I had a really meandering career where I wasn't super directed. And it took me kind of a while to get where I've gotten. But I don't think that I would have the kind of like voice and empathy and understanding. I also graduated into a recession. So that wasn't great. And then now we're going through it again. Like art can really have the easiest go of trying to go once in a lifetime, economic downturns. Yeah. So those things slowed me down a little bit, but also like I have varying interests. And I think sometimes when you have a lot of different interests, it can be really hard to figure out what you want to do. And I know a lot of people struggle with that. Definitely. It's really hard. And then from there, what was your first step? Was it that you moved to LA right away? Did you get what was your first like job out of college? So yeah, after grad school, I moved to LA because I was sick of the East Coast. I moved away when I was 18. And I was like ready to be back in California. And I got a job as a graphic designer. And then that was like the year that things were starting to turn down. So like I was laid off from that job and then had a really hard time getting a job. And at that time I was like, I'm in LA. I think I want to do like entertainment industry things because like that's always been something that fascinated me and it looks like fun. So I got into production design and set design and did that for a number of years. And that was like really interesting and also really grueling. I don't know if either of you have worked in production, aside from like art show, it's hard. Like especially for the art department because those people are not before everybody else and they are leaving after everybody else. And it's like you often get treated like the housekeeper on set. It's like somebody dropped a soda like art department, come clean this up and that can be really frustrating. So yeah. And I think it's also like very hard to make a big name for yourself as like a production designer or an art director. It's just a rough field. So I was starting to kind of like get bored with that. And then I was cast to be an assistant on an HGTV show about 10 years ago with Emily Henderson. And that's kind of like the first like quote unquote interior design job I had. And that's amazing. I love her. I followed her for many years. What was it like working with her? It was fun. Like so Emily didn't know me before that show and she had wanted her best friend to get the role that I got. And so at first she wasn't fully on board, but we like became kindred spirits immediately. Like the first reveal of that show, we were in a house the full night before the reveal because something had gone wrong with the installation of the tile on the fireplace. And we were still like working on everything trying to get it ready for the show. So we ended up basically like sleeping in the master bedroom of that house for like hours before the reveal the next day and became like very close friends after that. So she was a little bit hesitant at first, but then we became super close. And she's somebody that I still hold really dear to me. So it's not that I like fell into interior design. It's just like interior design was calling me for most of my life. And I like never placed that that's what I should do until I started doing it professionally on camera. And then you like that I imagined. So that's 10 years ago, we're talking about 10 years ago, you get your first little, I guess, taste of what it's like. And then does the show keep running and you and you so it's like it goes on for many seasons, or was there a period where you're switching to a different show or a different a different avenue starting your own thing. So that show lasted for two seasons, which it took about a year to shoot those. Okay. And what I learned from doing that, which has been a really valuable lesson is that TV is not something to rely on. It's a nice little infusion of publicity, and it's great for business, but it is not something you should be like, I'm going to have a TV show, and then I'll have another one. And then it'll keep going. Reliant on things that are fully out of your control, you can make a great TV show that does not a get picked up or be continued. And things just go in and out. So like, I'm so happy that I got to make unspouse my house and build me up. Those have been really fun to make. And I think they've been great for brand building and for reaching people and telling a story. But for me, TV is never something that you should be like, I'm going to do this again, because you never know. I think that's so smart. I mean, one of the things when we first moved to LA, which is about three years ago, my friend immediately put it because we film everything we do. And the reason we film all of the projects we do is not for TV. So when I was in tech, you would always give your investors a PDF every month. And that was like the investor update. Now, nobody read it. And it would always really upset me because you're talking about a lot of executives working hard on this thing that nobody reads. And so I was like, I was really upset. And then I thought maybe it's the medium, right? Maybe PDFs are boring. And if they're an investor in 20 companies, then obviously that's even more boring and a lot of pressure for the investor. And so as soon as we moved to real estate, I said, instead of doing a PDF, why don't we just film it? And if we can get like a pretty cool producer, some really good production value, then it becomes like the HGTV kind of this episodic journey of showcasing everything of transparency. And so missing a fire inspection, what all these little things mean, and that's how it got started. And then it caught obviously production companies' eyes. And they were like, oh, you guys should enter a television show. And then my friend put me in touch with a lawyer, like a talent lawyer. And she was like, let me give you the reality of this industry. She's like, you might be on TV. You're gonna get 400 bucks, maybe. And you have to be really, really clear. Like if you get to the Joanna Chip Gaines, right, they were like, you got to be really clear on specifying the seats you want on the airplane. Otherwise, they'll put you in the middle seat. You got to specify the class of hotel. Otherwise, they're gonna put you in Motel Sixes. And it opened up this world of like, oh, really? And then I was like, well, what about all, you know, obviously you do product shots or you might get sponsorships. And they're like, oh, yeah, you don't make any money on those unless you have it in your contract. And so that's what she as the lawyer would really help these people figure out. And that was my first view into, oh, this is way more complicated than I thought. And then when we spoke to Sophia Bush, I was like, what was it like, you're on one tree hill, amazing show. She's like, we were all terrified because the production companies would tell us that it might not air next season. And they wouldn't tell them that they had a hit show on their hands so that they wouldn't ask for more money. And I was like, oh, this is so, it's so terrible. It's really interesting. And so that your advice is super sound in the sense of, you know, it's great for exposure. Like you said, obviously it connects you too. I mean, the storytelling and build me up I think is, it's really well done. Especially now it's just like the world needs that kind of a heartfelt reality TV. It's such a different take. It's, you know, it's not renovating for the sake of renovating like, you know, like I think Leather listed is very like selfish, you know, it's like, you're giving this to these people that you're transforming their lives. What a great time to be able to showcase those kinds of stories. I just, I think it's very timely. I think that's why it's resonating with people so much right now. And it's interesting because I did a former variation of the show that was called on spouse my house, which is a different show, but it's very, very similar. And just the name change has brought such a different energy to this show. Like people are like really living for it, which is so interesting to me. Yeah, it's very positive. What's your favorite part about about like the design process? Is it is it redoing spaces? Is it really having an impact on someone's life? What's like, what is the thing that you really, really resonates with you? Yeah, I mean, that is a great question. I mean, that you can answer that question sort of like in a philosophical way or in like a practical way. I'd say like, practically my favorite part of the design process is like, when it's over and people can enjoy their home. But in terms of like, you know, a theoretical favorite part, I would say getting people to be able to see their space in a new way or be able to enjoy it more or just to like kind of be able to take care of themselves better because they have the space to do that. That's kind of the whole purpose of the show is like showing people like, hey, taking care of your house is like a way of taking care of yourself and showing self love and showing care to other people who enter your house. So just kind of like seeing people enjoy their spaces and seeing them be excited about them is like the whole point of what we do. What do you think's next? I mean, obviously all these production companies are shut down. Super fortunate in one way where you're literally filming almost right to the point of COVID. Yeah, during COVID. And thankfully is able to air right now when people can tune in and they're not competing with sports necessarily or there's really like there's a kind of a drought as it relates to Netflix and other things. What do you like? What do you envision as as the next thing? You know, do you view another season of this or, you know, where are you thinking about the future for yourself? I don't know. So yeah, we did really luck out because we were basically done when COVID happened. We have one episode that the one that aired last week where you can kind of tell we're like, you know, the crew had to be far apart from each other. There could be like kind of a skeleton on a skeleton crew on set. Everybody had to like be outside during like lunch and breaks and stuff. I've been on a few sets since like during COVID and they felt pretty safe to me. So I think people are like starting back up. It's very ambiguous. I feel like everybody's kind of like, you know, like everybody else in society like looking around going like what do we do? And the same on design shows. But I think everybody, you know, people are ready to go back to work and they kind of figured it out. Like everybody in a mask, everybody outside when they're not necessary. Like when you're on camera, you can take your mask off, but you're far away from each other. So it just feels like for the next year or so we're going to be like working in this kind of like odd space where we're like not fully sure how everything is going to work. So, you know, our show is has only been on for three weeks. So I have no idea whether or not we're going to shoot more. What's really odd is that you get like a lot of emails from people being like, Hey, like, mostly basically like telling you their story and like, can you cast me? And like for me, I don't really have tons of control over the casting process. And B, I never know if I'm going to have more episodes. So it's like always a weird thing when your show is on casting happened 10 months ago. So like, you're not casting people while the show is on usually, but that's when you're getting people reaching out to you being like, Hey, this is what happened. Can I ban your show? And you're like, I love you. I'm so sorry. I don't, you know, there's nothing I can really do at this point. So I have no idea if there'll be more episodes. I always think that like, I'm just happy that I got this story that I wanted to tell told and every sort of little block of episodes of doing that is as a gift. So right now I'm working with a lot of private clients. I basically like pivoted this year from doing a lot of like sponsorships and brand partnerships to like making and selling products. So that's been something that I've been developing. And they're gorgeous. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, it was it's been a weird year because basically like the way that most people that are on TV that are at my sort of like level, meaning like kind of people who are just starting to be on TV that aren't huge mega stars. The way that people like that tend to make money is through partnerships and like working with brands, those completely disappeared when COVID happened. So I had to like in a month be like, all right, how am I going to figure out how to make money this year? Which was returning to working with design clients, which I have loved doing, but just haven't had the time for over the past few years because of like my book and the TV shows. And then, you know, making and selling product, which is another thing that I've been wanting to do for a long time. And I'm developing more and more. That's been really interesting just because of the learning curve and the logistics that goes into every single one of those. But that's been really fun because it's just like a problem solving thing. And it's been really enjoying it. So I'm just I'm thankful that I'm not homeless, basically, because March came I was like, Oh my God, like, what am I going to do this year? It's a wild time. Let's let's tell everybody about what you're working on. So you're you're what are you you're working on some merch and furniture? What are you working on? Yeah, so right now I'm finishing up a project with the Olympics gear Gus Kenworthy. So we're shooting that and we're shooting that as like a HGTV digital series too. So that will be out at some point. And that project is really cool. It's a big condo of the street for me here in West Hollywood. And it's like very like modern and clean and he had like lots of really interesting art and interesting furniture that he was into. So that was a really fun project to do. Other than that, I'm working with a few private clients, both like in the LA area, and I'm experimenting with working with a partner to do sort of e design so I can have clients kind of anywhere. What I've developed this year is a strategy for basically trying to figure out how to diversify income streams because when March came and like, I was like, Oh, I was making all of my money in partnerships. I realized a, you know, getting paid to Instagram something is like fine, but that's not like my life passion. Right. Even though it can lead to like really fun content. And I have a few that are in the works that I think are going to be really funny. And like B, I've had all these other ideas for such a long time that I wanted to do that I didn't make time for. So that's really what this year has been about. But in doing all of these things, I'm trying to grow in a way that is more strategic. And so like for my LA design clients, I have a woman that I partner with who basically like does all of the logistics of the design process. We are in collaboration about how the home is designed and I'll be like, I like this, I want to do that. I want to do this. And I, you know, incorporate her vision and her idea because I found her because I loved her work. And so that's allowed me to have a high end in person design business without what was happening before, which was that I would be basically like ripped away to film something. And then this person would be like, there's nothing going on on my project. And I'm like, yes, but when I'm like filming something, it's actually impossible for me to be like doing two things at the same time. And you'll always gravitate towards the, you know, the project that's either making you more money or that's going to lead to more marketing or whatever. You're going to automatically get taken away to do that other thing. So being able to have that support. I mean, that's amazing. You can almost like add more to your play or, you know, pick different things and not have all of your time be sequestered between one thing or the other. That's really nice. I mean, I think that the hard thing about like being on TV or being somebody with a big social media following as a designer is that you find a lot of clients, but then the act of what you're doing that is getting their attention is actually something that takes a lot of time. So like content for Instagram takes time. Producing a TV show takes time. Like all of these things kind of in a weird way negate the thing that you're marketing because you don't have time to do the thing because you're doing the marketing for the thing. Right. So bringing on people to help you sort of carry out your design is really crucial. And for me, I've seen multiple friends of mine bring on huge teams and then they go through these cycles of, Oh my God, my overhead is so high. I have to get rid of people. And then three months later, they're like, Oh my God, I have so many projects I need to hire more people. And so I've been trying to find partners instead of employees, meaning like I have, I'm collaborating with people, but I'm not like, you're on my payroll. So it's like, just, you know, practically speaking, instead of me being like, here's your salary. I'm like, well, you're making this percentage and I'm making this percentage and the percentage is, is fair enough that they're going to be motivated to want to work, you know, and they still have other things to work on when it's, when it's lower. So for my design clients, the people who work for me, quote unquote, make more of the design fee than I do, because they're doing more of the logistical work. And the reason that that can work for me is that I'm doing multiple things at the same time. I want somebody who's established enough to not be my employee, and they deserve more of the money because they're doing more of the work. So that's kind of been my strategy this year of like, all right, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do this. And these things are going to be self sustaining because I'm paying people a living wage to do them. And I still get to have to create a freedom of being involved, but I'm not sort of tasked with the day to day minutia, which is what sort of always ends up making my brain feel torn in a million directions. I think that's really smart. If, if Orlando Soria was on, build me up as the client, what would be the dream thing that you would build for yourself? Oh, that's a good question. And you might already have it, you know, it might already be in the home you're in. Right. It might be your dream project that you've done yourself already. I don't know. Like I can think of like dream houses. I'm trying to think of like dream projects. Like, basically what I want is like a giant, like Spanish style, like ranch house in Ohio with like a big garden where there's like, you know, orchards and tons of outdoor space and just that kind of like very like earthy, but chic California vibe. Yeah, I love that. Me too. Is there, as it relates to being on TV, do you see the future as HGTV evolving in a meaningful way? Like do you, you get to talk to maybe the production companies and obviously you've been doing it for 10 years. And so there's, there's obviously progress, but what do you think the future of HGTV holds? Do you think it's more digital series? Do you think the content changes? I mean, I, to me, you know, as a consumer, Flipper Flop has been or Fixer Upper has been done a number of times in different ways. And obviously the recipe works, but is there any innovation that you might see coming in that space that that they're currently working on or maybe testing? Well, I think something that I'd noticed even just in terms of like as a viewer of HGTV is people are more and more interested about having a story be involved with what's going on. I think why like our show is resonating with so many people too is there is that personal hook to get you interested in like why this person wants to do what they want to their house. And I like that because I think of design as like a very personal, very psychological process. So I see them incorporating more types of programming that has those sort of like family relationships or that has that human element to it that get you more excited about it. Yeah, they are going to be I think probably all of the networks at some point are going to have that the streaming side of them. So like we have like ECOC for NBC, like HBO Max, etc. And I think that they'll probably end up going like that route as well. I don't know what that that will mean if anything for the type of content that they're making, but just generally I'm noticing that people want things to be a little bit more interesting and a little bit more laced with with human stories and stories about families and stories about struggling and overcoming. So yeah, to me that's that's a lot more interesting than just a straight up like we made this house bigger and now it's worth more money. Right. And so traps my mom has this house where she had this wall in the middle and so during Christmas, you could only be in one room. And so if you and we obviously were traveling back to Massachusetts to see our family and it's like if I'm in the living room, I can't see anyone in the kitchen. If I'm in the dining room, I can't see anyone in the other two rooms. And this thing would upset me to the point where I'm like, I want to demo this wall right now, right now. And finally, I think two years ago, we just decided to fly to Massachusetts with our crew and just finish this thing rented couple trucks for a week. And to your point, like that was the point wasn't the renovation. The point was, I selfishly when I'm visiting my family, which doesn't happen often because we live in California and they're in Massachusetts, just wanted to be able to see everybody in the same room. And oh, now it's amazing. My mom loves it. And obviously she loves it. Obviously it's she's such a fan. And it was it's totally right. Like design needs to be purposeful in that way. There needs to be a story. Have you done other projects for your family? We're planning another one. We did a bathroom renovation and part of like a part of their wet bar and now we're doing their basement before the before next summer. It was supposed to be before this summer, but then COVID happened and my crew wasn't flying. So we didn't go back and we weren't flying. So we didn't go back. But now it'll be before next summer. We're going to redo their basement with my mom loves wine. We're going to do a little wine cellar and then another living room to have more space and then a guest bedroom. Are they easy clients? Yes, yes. They all they trust us or not. I shouldn't say us Natalia. They trust Natalia. And so they're just like, whatever you say we'll do. And so my sister also has a home that she's a new mother of two little boys. And so obviously the house changes when you have boys or kids in general. And so she's like, I need, I need to optimize for storage. And so there's some projects that we're honestly waiting for COVID. And so we can get back on some planes and bring our, bring our guys and do some quick stuff that we think is just super, super fun. And impactful. Yeah. But again, to your point with the storyline, right? It's like the story leads the design, not vice versa. We're not just renovating to renovate. Right. We're not like, let's flip this home, which is fine too, but it's just not for me. It's not that exciting. So with that, we're going to, we're going to bring Nick in. We have a design challenge for you. Nick is our fellow co-host of the startup to storefront podcast. Nick is actually shooting a commercial again. So this is actually his first project in Cupertino. Hey guys. Hey, hello everyone. Here is. So now I'm going to paint a picture for you. Okay. So Nick Conrad is a single man. Since COVID, we're obviously all at home doing zoom meetings. And the challenge with this is sometimes this is the backdrop of his, of our podcast. And, and Natalia obviously knows something a little bit about design and she absolutely dislikes this baby blue. I mean, like, dude, it's like you're eight years old again. And so we said, how great would it be to ask, what would Orlando do to this room? Just to make it one, obviously it's the new work space, right? This is your backdrop. And we just want to give him the bachelor pad of his dreams. So what is up for grabs? Like what is, what can be changed? Anything. I'm glad that they're speaking for me because clearly they've rendered my input pretty much meaningless just based on the room color itself. Did you choose that color? So it was lavender when I first got in there to that space. And so it was, it was, it was my choice. And I basically just chose a color that I like. I like blue. And so I threw it up on the wall and didn't really give it any second thought whatsoever until I met them and had had them over and they like took one look at my room and instantly like that was the first thing that they picked up on and just have not let me have a moment's rest ever since then. I mean, in your defense, I am wearing that color on my body, basically. I'm wearing like a light blue shirt. So I think it can work well in certain applications. That's something that I kind of like realized at an early age is that sometimes things that you love in terms of color aren't things that belong on your wall. I actually don't know if I dislike the color of the wall. I think maybe if there was some sort of like on molding on it and the floor was like a hardwood floor and, you know, the furniture felt more considered, you might read that blue in a different way than you're reading it now. And blue is really hard to because the specific hue can take it from like pretty and warm kind of like Tamara's bedroom. Remember that or that was a very similar color to this, but that one had a little bit more yellow in it and was a little bit more like a Robin's egg. And this one, because it's got less warmth is leaning a little bit more like a powder like steel blue. Anyway, I actually don't think it's a terrible color. I think it contrasting with the rug because the rug is a similar sort of level of saturation is not really providing a lot of contrast. So if this were my room, I would, you know, I'd want to change out the flooring if I could. If I could, and I'd want to add some sort of like flat woven rug probably like in an ivory that just brightened up the floor. I think something that would be really nice for this style maybe is like one of those like leather headboards that mounts to the wall just to give the bed some structure. And then you could even like have a light fixture that hangs down just a little bit more because it does look like it's over the bed. It's not quite, it's over the foot of the bed. Okay, so I guess that semi-flesh is not bad either. Another thing obviously is like storage in a room like that. Like I don't think you necessarily like need to be looking at your shoes. So finding some sort of closed storage piece for that or reorganizing the closet so it could be in there. And then I would say like some sort of like large scale art or object over the bed, maybe something that won't cut your head off in an earthquake could be. That's always my first concern. Yeah, that's what I mean. There are like cool, this sounds really like lame, but like things that are like tapestries are things that are made out of like a textile that could kind of solve that issue. Or if it's lightweight enough, I'm always like, all right, this is like over my bed, but it's not like glass. So it won't like cut me in half or wood solid wood. Yeah. I mean, and I'm sure that standing desk is probably super practical and healthy, but maybe in terms of like styling it up a little bit, you could add some like shelving above it. So it was a little bit like cleaner and more streamlined. Most of the time, like adding cool art, getting everything super organized and changing out a few things, like either changing the flooring or adding a rug is going to make the room feel a lot cooler. Maybe adding like a bench at the end of the bed too, just to make it a little bit more welcoming. All good things. Awesome wood flooring for him for free because you made him do this. Yep. I got you. Put my room on blast. I think I've got some extra for my last project, so you're good. Yeah, I'm sure my landlord would be okay with that. Oh yeah. It's an upgrade. For sure. I don't know why I chose that carpet in the first place. Carpet is like easy to replace and it's cheap. So I like totally, and actually like it can be very nice, but like you never really feel like it's nice if it's like been somebody else's before you. Yeah, I totally get that from a landlord perspective. And it's good for soundproofing. There's a lot of great things about it, but it gets a bad rap because we're used to seeing like the cheap gross kind of landlords put in just to like do the bare minimum. Well, thank you. Nick, how do you feel? How do you feel about those recommendations? I actually think I might implement, be able to implement quite a few of them. So that's really helpful actually. Good. This is like a mini little episode. This is so great. And Nick, we're actually going to hold you to this. So we're going to hold you to this and see if it actually does it. We're going to do it while you're in Cupertino. We'll force it, we'll force it. Great. You know, I have to say I have to jump right now, but Orlando, I am looking forward to seeing this entire interview as I'm editing it. And yeah, looking forward to it very much. Thank you. Good to meet you. Very nice to meet you too. Bye guys. See you Nick. See you later. Thanks for being a good sport. Absolutely. Thanks, Orlando. That was fun. Listen, before we wrap, just tell everyone where they can find you. And your products. Find me and my products at Orlandosoria.com. And follow me at Atnistor Orlandosoria on Instagram and Pinterest. And I don't really do like Twitter or whatever, but that is also my Twitter handle. I do you guys like Twitter? I'm not like a Twitter person. I deleted it. I definitely liked looking at it. So I just, my stuff like it's rebroadcast to it. So sometimes it'll be like blah, blah, blah, follows you on Twitter and I'm like, why? I don't do it. No. And of course, check it out. Build me up Wednesdays at 9, right? 6 or 9? Yeah, 9. 9 p.m. on HGTV. Thanks, Orlando. Thank you. Thank you.