 Welcome to the non-profit show. We are thrilled to have you back here either viewing or listening. We reserve every Friday our fryer as our Ask and Answer episode. Thanks to Fundraising Academy, Cause Selling Education with the National University. Each and every Friday, this amazing company has decided to underwrite and provide a support for this ongoing conversation. Thank you so much to Tony Bell, joining us from Fundraising Academy. Tony is the Senior Director of Relationship Center with the Fundraising Academy, again, at the National University. Again, just so very honored. I shared earlier in our green room chatter, Tony. This is episode 601, and we would not be where we are without the support of you and Fundraising Academy, and of course, all of our sponsors. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Again, a verbal shout out. Those of you watching, you can of course see their logo, and I do encourage you to check them out. Not now, but just in about 28 minutes would be a great time. So thank you so very much to our presenting sponsors that include Bloomerang, American Non-Profit Academy, Fundraising Academy at the National University, Non-Profit Nerd, Your Part-Time Controller, Staffing Boutique, and the Non-Profit Thought Leader. Yes, Tony, put those hands together, clap because we are so very honored to have the investment of all of these companies and supporters, each and every one of them truly have leaned into the community over these last three years, over these pandemics, plural to really pour into the community to elevate conversation, as you had said, and just elevate overall knowledge. So thank you to all of our supporters. And if you missed any of our previous episodes, going back almost three years ago, you can find us on Roku, YouTube, Fire TV, as well as Vimeo. And if you're a podcast listener like I am, you can queue up the Non-Profit Show wherever you stream your podcast. So go ahead and queue us up or tune in to the Non-Profit Show wherever you might listen to video, audio, whatever your entertainment pleasure is, there's a lot going on. So Tony, so glad to have you back. And again, you know, just look forward to spending frayay with fundraising academy. So how have you been? Tell us a little bit about yourself and what's going on with the university there. Yeah, thank you so much. So the fundraising academy, like many organizations over the last couple of years has really been investing heavily in our digital transformation. So we just recently launched a new online portal. So you can go to fundraisingacademy.org and find that. I don't wanna get into a commercial, but that's kind of what's been going on and just this exciting investment and digital application of our curriculum and doing everything that we can to make sure that this curriculum and information is accessible to folks wherever they are. So that's really what's been exciting about a lot of the work happening at the fundraising academy. And we will continue, you know, as we enter kind of our new fiscal year with a strong commitment and investment in more digital and asynchronous learning opportunities for emerging fundraisers. I love the evolution. And just as you have experienced it, Tony, we have experienced it with our questions. You know, in the very beginning, Julie and I thought, well, seriously, how many questions can we go through? Aren't they going to just be the same ones over and over? But the evolution of the questions, the evolution of what's top of mind for people truly has changed. And we have witnessed that over this journey. So our very first question comes into us from it looks like a collective group, the board of directors. The board. The board in Minneapolis. So can you tell us what the average length of employment tenure is for a director development? AFP, Association of Fundraising Professionals, has been reporting less than two years. We're having a hard time believing this and need to work on succession planning. What have you heard, Tony? So it's a great question. And before we answer it, I wanted to comment, Jared, on what you were saying about the questions that come in and the range of questions. And I think one of the reasons why you're experiencing that is because you've created such a safe place for these questions to be presented. So I think that that means a lot for folks as they consider contributing to this conversation. Is that it really is a safe place and the ask and answer Fridays are typically filled with lots of diversity and diverse voices and perspectives. So I just wanted to give that shout out and that realization that I think part of the success there really is how you've created this safe place for people to submit questions and initiate these conversations. Well, that's fantastic. So again, thank you for that, Tony. I would say, yes, that's probably the truth. And you know how many unknown we receive. So many people, if they don't wanna put their name or they don't wanna put their community, we do get those as well. So all safe here, absolutely. All safe. So with that particular, so one, I'll focus on the latter part of the question just around the topic of succession planning and that, yes, even if the average tenure was 10 years for a fundraiser in an organization, succession planning is a best practice. You know, we want, let's be real in this conversation too, there aren't often a lot of promotional opportunities for emerging professionals within a particular organization. And so some of the revolving door that we see isn't necessarily tied to lack of satisfaction, lack of productivity or reaching goals, but really the opportunity to excel, you know, in your career and in your profession. And we want that to happen for folks, right? We're good leaders, we're good mentors, we want folks in our organization to continue to grow. And that often means outgrowing their role within the current organization and having to move on. So just from kind of that lens alone, we should always be thinking about succession planning, aside from the one that we really wish, and that is that, you know, they hit the lottery and then make a sizable gift to the organization and then it's a huge win-win for everybody. But I would say what I have seen and heard in conversation is that, yes, two years, two and a half years, if a development professional hasn't already left, they're kind of having that conversation with themselves around, is it time to look? Are there other opportunities out there? So I have heard and seen that. I don't know that through my conversations though, Jared, and maybe you know a little more about this. I don't know that I've seen a common thread among the reasons. Right. I would say, I've not either. I love, love that you mentioned that career trajectory because I see it all too often, Toni, where there's nowhere for these professionals to go within the organization and succession planning is so very important at all levels, you know, executive, honestly, every position, including your board, right? So the succession conversation should be at your dinner table all the time. It really should be a conversation. And I have seen over my own career, Toni, you know, the last 20 years, so many of my peers, they will start at a large organization in let's say a coordinator position. They go to a very small organization as maybe a director, right? And then when they move again, they might go to another, you know, different size, maybe more of a medium size organization and they are a major gift officer. So I really think when it comes to this question and I love, again, that you really mentioned, you know, that the reasons could vary. So it's not that they're necessarily unhappy at your organization, it could be their own professional desire and growth. And so I've not seen a study like that, that would be a fantastic one because I know that this, you know, that this two years or less is kind of scary because you think I just invested all of this time in the person, they've really gotten to know our constituency base, they're doing great work. Now we have to start over again. Yeah, and we all know, you know, the level of investment, right? And having to seek new talent on board them. And then as we continue the conversation around the importance of relationships in successful fundraising, then, you know, there's also that disruption in relationships with your donors that you have to navigate. And that takes, you know, resources and a lot of times emotional resources to, you know, to navigate that. So very true, great response. And I hope that we were able to, you know, help with a little bit there. Ruth in Baltimore, since in this question, we have board policies for our board members to execute annually. We have been doing this in our January meeting. It has been suggested that we take this action in December so that we begin the new year with everyone in compliance. Good idea or not? What would you sell to Ruth? So I have to digest this one just a little bit. Thank you, Ruth, for this question. I leaned in, there are some specifics here that I think we're missing in order for me to give a really comfortable answer. So I'll make a couple of assumptions. So, Jared, the first thing I thought about again is the bylaws. What do the bylaws say? Or do the bylaws say that you're voting on these and, you know, these are being activated at the January. I'm gonna make an assumption that January meeting is the annual meeting, right, was that? I would make that same assumption with this question. Yeah, so I'm assuming the January meeting is the annual meeting. So there's probably some language in the bylaws that are kind of, you know, guiding the activities that take place at the annual meeting. I think a way to get, because it looks like, and I love that, you know, the proactiveness, right? It's like, how can we get ahead of the curve on this as opposed to kind of waiting until we're there? So there are probably ways that, I don't know, collaborate on those documents, you know. What was it again? I'm sorry, do you mind pulling it back up? Yeah, no, absolutely. So the policies maintaining and compliant for the board members. Yeah, so if there's policy review, compliance reviews, there's, you know, so much technology and free technology that organizations can lean into, right? So that they can work on these collectively as a group, these documents come to consensus on them prior to January. And then I, you know, again, based on the bylaws, perhaps these can become consent agenda items in the January agenda so that folks have collaborated on them, you kind of have a consensus through the collaboration on these documents. You present them, you know, before the board meeting as kind of part of the board meeting packet. And then at the board meeting, they are part of your consensus agenda so that it doesn't take up a lot of the time in your annual meeting. Yeah. I hope that, I said a lot. I hope that that made some sense. It makes sense to me. And it also reminds me of the governance committee. If you have a governance committee, this is certainly something that the members of that committee should have a, you know, finger on the pulse throughout the year, not just at the end or beginning of the year. And it also reminds me to what you were saying, Tony, is that this should also be part of your onboarding process. And so these really should not be new documents to your board. I think it's a great practice, Ruth, each and every year to review these and of course get those signatures annually. But if there's anything that you might want to revisit, as Tony said, when in doubt, refer to the bylaws. That should always be your response, right? If someone says, well, what do we need to do with this? My response is, what do the bylaws say, right? And I kind of sound like a parrot, just repeating that often, but it's, what do the bylaws say? Well, let's refer to the bylaws, right? Like always going to that. It's like, Polly, what a cracker. It's like, well, what do the bylaws say? I think we could probably program, I don't know, not program, but teach a bird to say that. Well, Jared, I'm gonna derail us a hundred percent here. And just the irony that you mentioned parrots, I am here in South Florida and was attending a Zoom meeting just before connecting with you to collaborate in this great conversation. And about 20 parrots flew over because they often do in South Florida. And about 20 parrots flew over and because I'm that person, of course, right in the middle of my comments, I was like, oh, parrots, and I watched them fly across. And I shared with them how, what a wonderful experience that is to witness that. And I said, well, thank goodness that didn't happen during the nonprofit show because I would have interrupted and go, look, parrots. So I did it anyway. But look, here it is. It's come back with that whole squirrel analogy, but imagine if those parrots did say, what did the bylaws say, right? What did the bylaws say? Yeah, it's all in unison. And I do think, Ruth, that that is a great thing to remember. And now every time you see a parrot, you will think that, what did the bylaws say? Because staying in compliance, I love the, you know, that is top of mind for you. I also love, as Tony mentioned, being proactive, you know, should we do this in December? So we're ready in January. Might also want to take a look at this on your fiscal calendar. If that's different than, you know, the standard kind of annual calendar that the world revolves around are at least our nation. Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, kudos to Ruth. I mean, this is good board governance. This is, you know, looking at the organization through the right kind of lens, right? The right leadership lens. So thank you, Ruth. It was a great question and keep up the great work. Yes, absolutely. Mary in Raleigh, North Carolina, this is about a photography consent. So we currently have a no photography policy for all volunteers on our campus. However, we have a lot of volunteers and their companies who want to have their photos taken for posting to social media. These people want to share their volunteer service and promote us as well. So how might they address this, Tony? Have you seen this in your community or for your questions? Yeah, yeah, I have. And again, this is just another great example of just, you know, the variety of questions that come in for asking an answer. And I think it's a super one because you really, you know, we all want to, when I say we, meaning nonprofit organizations, of course want to maximize brand awareness, exposure, and social media is an excellent way of doing that. There are a couple of organizations that I know that have similar parameters around, you know, photos because they don't have a photo release, you know, for the folks that they're providing services to, right? If it's a walk-in facility, you don't know who's going to walk in, right? So they really don't, they want to maintain that level of confidentiality for the individuals that they're serving. So they have like step and repeat areas or little like social vignettes that they've created. So there's a nonprofit here in South Florida where they painted angel wings on the side of the building. And with the hashtag with the name of the organization and, you know, and some, and I can't recall what the phrase is, people stand between those angel wings and get their photos taken constantly and then post it and post the hashtag. So there are another organization I know just has their step and repeat from their gallows that they do. So that like sits in the lobby. And so, you know, there's that opportunity. There's another nonprofit I know that has kind of outdoor recreational space and they created one of those beautiful like green Ivy walls with just, you know, words that kind of pop out like, you know, beautiful and you're amazing. And, you know, and then the organization's logo and so you can do a selfie there. So there are lots of creative ways to, you know, create these social pick opportunities without having to jeopardize the confidentiality of who you're serving. I love that response. And I've seen that more and more myself and it's great to see, you know, and I think creating that space that's safe for the client, safe for the volunteers, for the overall community. And I love maybe even if it's outdoors then you have the ability for other people, you know, to use that. So what a great idea with the angel wings and then don't forget that hashtag, right? Like use that opportunity, of course as a way to connect and promote. So Mary, I think these are some fantastic opportunities not quite sure knowing your mission but maybe that there was an idea in there that you can use for your volunteers on campus to, you know, meet the expectation that your companies and individuals are looking for. So great response there. I love it. Great, thanks. Yeah, absolutely. I've also seen, but I've also seen butterfly wings. So I've seen angel wings and butterfly wings. I think those are the only two that I've seen. Yeah, no, I think that's fantastic. There's some great opportunities. Well, we have this one coming in from Lincoln, Nebraska, Louise and May. How do you feel about our marketing and communications team sending press releases about major donor gifts and grant wins? We are having mixed opinions on this topic internally. I love this question. I think it's a really good question as well. And I do not think there was a one size fits all answer to the question. So let's start with major gifts. That's a conversation you need to have with the individual giving the major gift around their comfort level with that type of public awareness of the gift. Some folks just don't want that level of exposure. So I would start there. And if they do, then I would include them throughout the entire process. They need to review the press release. Clearly, there's going to be a quote from them in the press release. So just keeping them involved, making sure they understand the outlets that the release will be sent, how is the release being distributed? So I really think you have to keep them very much informed. But the first question is, how may we or may we not share information about your gift? So important to have these conversations. As you said, I remember going through an AFP mentor mentee program and again, Association of Fundraising Professionals. And we essentially had this same conversation. And it was more of this ethical dilemma. And what had occurred is the donor had made a very large gift, very sizable, transformational. The organization did not talk to the donor, Tony, and instead had a sculpture created and erected. And they completely unveiled the sculpture without sharing with the donor. And you can imagine, as your face expresses, it went sideways very quickly. And so not only did the organization not speak with the donor about their wishes and how they wish to be recognized or not recognized, but they took this investment, not necessarily their investment, but clearly investment from the organization to create this custom sculpture that the donor was basically like, I'm sorry, but you have to remove that. Wow. So there are tons of these horror stories, whether it's a press release or not. A positive story that I can share is I just helped to secure a quarter of a million for an organization. And this is a very large funder. And they have very strict ways on recognizing. And it includes a press release, but they actually assist you with writing and distributing the press release. And so I do fully believe, Tony, in absolutely what you said, it's having the conversation with the donor. How would you like to be recognized? What are your comfort levels? If it's a press release and that's kind of your standard, Louise and Ray, maybe you share that to say, this is our standard recognition. I wanna ensure that you're comfortable with this. Is there anything that you would like us not to do? And is there anything in addition that we could do to help recognize your investment? And with the other group, the grants, I mean, there's typically more opportunity to publicize grant wins. But still, you would wanna check with the funder and make sure that they're comfortable. And again, you would want, in a press release, you would wanna quote from the funder, if possible, right? So still making sure that they're comfortable and including them in the process and giving them an opportunity to have a say in that messaging. I think it's important. But the other thing is, yes, whenever possible, celebrate your wins. So all of those other things aside, I would say to Louise and Ray, yes, celebrate your wins whenever you have an opportunity to do so. Absolutely, absolutely. And include that with your staff. Make sure your staff knows about these wins as well. So yeah, such great information. And if you're asking this question, Louise and Ray, it tells me that you're doing fantastic work and you're bringing in some fantastic support. So congratulations. Yeah, absolutely. Let's celebrate that win, right? And Tony, I did notice your mug. So I wonder if we can kinda do a virtual cheers with one another. Cheers. Right? There we go. Yeah, for today, a fryer. Again, thanks to Ask and Answer, supported from the Fundraising Academy with the National University. Tony Bell serves as their Senior Director, which is their Relationship Center there at the Fundraising Academy. If you have not checked this company out, please do. It's fundraising-academy.org. For those of you listening and those of you watching, I hope that you can take a look on the screen. Even if you might have been a little distracted with some emails during today's conversation. But if you are distracted with emails, I hope that you're sending in questions. Cause again, each and every Friday, our fryer is reserved for us to answer your questions that come in. We've done this now for a little over two years. And as we shared earlier, the conversations and the questions, they keep evolving. So thank you to all of you that have sent in your questions and stay in contact with us. Tony, you're always fantastic to nerd out with, right? It's what we love to do. It's kind of like our love language of conversation. But I also wanna give a shout out to Bloomerang American Nonprofit Academy back again with the Fundraising Academy with the National University, non-profit nerd, your part-time controller, staffing boutique and the non-profit thought leader. I had mentioned earlier, please don't check out these companies until about 28 minutes. And now's right about that time to do so. So please do take a look at these companies online. Many of them also have a very strong LinkedIn presence. So check them out as well. Tony, you've got a strong LinkedIn presence. So I always love seeing you there. Thanks. Thanks. Absolutely. And the sponsors also, I mean, what we're seeing too, their support of course for the non-profit show, their support for the sector, but clearly their investment in professional development for fundraisers and for the sector. So I would love to see more organizations and companies step up and sponsor and underwrite professional development and professional learning opportunities for professionals in the non-profit sector because that money just isn't always there in their budgets because they're investing it in their mission. It's so important. And that really addresses one of our questions about how long does someone stay in their development role? And perhaps that more, the more investment you can make into their professional development, the longer that person might be interested in staying. But great content for today and great comment to end on Tony. I hope you have a fantastic weekend. And for all of you that are watching and viewing, we like to remind you each and every day. And again, this is episode 601. We promise to stop counting them every episode, but it's really a huge milestone. So really excited for that. So please do stay well so you can all continue to do well. Have a great weekend and we'll see you back here on Monday. Thanks, my friend. Take care. Bye-bye.