 I'd like to call to order the 7th regular meeting of the 2017 2018 Common Council. I ask the clerk to please read the Words for today. Thank you The two words information and communication are often used interchangeably But they signify quite different things Information is giving out communication is getting through Thank you very much. Would you please call the roll? There are 15 present And all the person Schneider is excused And all the person Damro is also excused At this time, please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance I'd like to call for a moment of silence one of our Firefighters families had a big wasp on June 19th Pasha Molitor passed away He died from injuries in a car crash and he was the son of Captain Ken Molitor and his wife Lori Thank you Next we'll move on to approval of the minutes from our last meeting All the person wolf. Thank you mayor. I make a motion to approve second Thank you for that motion in support. Is there any discussion on the minutes? Seeing none all those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion passes Next item is a presentation tonight on the Sheboygan Business Park expansion by Representative Rukard milky the consultant that we hired for this project chattel open up Thank you So you'll recall that the council approved a document to hire Rukard milky to Assist the city in doing a feasibility study on the future expansion of the Sheboygan Business Center So Joe ever leaf from Rukard milky is the project lead and he's going to run you through a couple PowerPoint slides about What has come up as part of that final plan and what the preferred concept looks like? And then it's kind of the timeline moving forward. So with that I'll turn it over to Joe to Go through the PowerPoint. Good evening. Thank you. Mr. Mayor Alderman My name is Chad said is Joe everly. We've been working on this study since April of this year We've worked with a group by the name of Hitchcock design group who are planners on this study And we finished it about a month or so ago Next slide please I'm just gonna and I I promise you I don't have 500 PowerPoint slides tonight on July 3rd to put you through So I will get through this. I just want to talk about some highlights on this thing So that you can see what we came up with and what we're recommending Just as a little bit of the background as you well know the existing business center is essentially full There's very little room left in there the city adopted Strategic plan calls for construction in the beginning and expansion in 2018 That was the impetus for us to be retained to look at some options for the business center expansion The other thing that's not just unique to Sheboygan in Sheboygan County. There are no Sites available right now that are of what we call sizable sites 15 acres or more So there there's a need for that type of thing in the county right now The proposed site that we're talking about Is is really very special you can see on these boards that I brought along and it's also when you're copy of your Of the pack that we have here. It's a very unique site and it's really special I'm really excited about it from the standpoint that it is the front door to the city people traveling Whether it's businesses or just individuals traveling on I-43 really don't see Sheboygan they don't see what you have downtown here or something like that They see the interchange when they built the eye They put it out there on the west side of this whole thing But when you drive from the especially from the south you come up over and you see this piece of property And it's it's like the front door of the city It's it's really a magnificent tract of land You've got loves that just open a couple weeks to go on the south end of this thing But it goes up to your existing business center But I think this presents the city with a great opportunity It's you know whether you're whatever you end up calling it whether it's just Continues to be called the Sheboygan business center You call it the gateway center or something like that, but it really is the front door to the city And this is the most visible piece of property. It's along I-43 right now Next please the the site and when I say site we're from a planning standpoint Regardless of property ownership or municipal boundaries, it's like we look at a large what the planning area should be and it runs essentially from the Okv intersection all the way up to the existing business park that's up there right now So we look at the whole thing as a piece from planning purposes I-43 on the west side And ok and business center drive on the east side There's some other advantages of the site the site for all intents and purposes devoid of major Wetlands and navigable streams which helps the development as it goes forward If the city decides to move forward on this thing also lowers the cost it allows for more Developable acres and that's really obviously what you guys and ladies want is you want to have the most Land the most the highest yield in other words if you have a hundred acres You don't want to put 30 of it in the streets and all the rest of this stuff that you can't build Development on can't provide jobs for and something like that the other thing that we did and Over the the series of months that we worked on this and we received an awful lot of input from staff We went back and forth with staff to make sure that what we were thinking and coming up with as Realistically outsiders was something that The staff who know this area better than than we do makes sense on the whole thing The main thing when you do business parks, and I've been doing these for quite a while. I've been at rickard milky for This is my 38th year as I always say I speak young and tall and skinny even so you see what happens See after 38 years You want to have a business park That's as flexible as possible because you can't Assume what's gonna come knocking on your door? One person may come in there, and they want two or three or five acres somebody else you come in there, and they want 50 acres on the whole thing and at the end of the day what you really starting out with for Analogy is a pie and you have to carve this pie up And you have to be able to make sure that if somebody wants a big slice of pie that you've got the availability for it But at the same time there's enough flexibility in the plan That you can have little pieces of pie in the whole thing and you can combine them when you put the improvements in there So it's flexible so that as you market this property in the future That you don't you don't carve it up. I've seen some municipalities They put a track together a rectangular piece of property and they just Slice and dice the whole thing and I got all these five. It doesn't work that way you need to have flexibility So when it's marketed whether by you or the supporting County Economic Development Corporation That they've got the flexibility to show perspective users and this plan I will say from my perspective is very flexible You'll see on here and you can look I'm gonna leave these here tonight, so you take a look at them But you'll see that we have Tentatively laid out some lots on this thing around the proposed street network But at the same time you can combine these you can cut them in pieces You can do anything else so that it works in there and like I said you cannot Really predict what's going to be coming what you want to have is is the flexibility on the whole thing The other thing we looked at was that based upon our experience Users of business parks industrial parks transportation is a really big thing They make widgets. They're sitting on their dock. They don't make any money sitting on their dock They need to get that stuff to wherever the end user is going to be or the distribution center in minutes make Difference I was involved with a project in the Milwaukee area where the site that was selected by the manufacturer Over another one was because they were five minutes faster to the freeway Then they were on the second site minutes cost money because once you get that stuff loaded in the truck You got to get it the heck out of there and get to wherever it's going to go so they can get paid That's really what it is. The other thing is is that you want to make sure that it's access That's easy for the employees and the car of its clients if it's office buildings and that so you can get people In and out of there without going through a maze This Property is has a huge advantage from the intersection that's down on the south end Because it's really quick to get down there if you had to go north the next intersection up on Washington You've got to go through the business park You've got to deal with a railroad and you've got to twist and to go through the streets It's fine for the existing business center But to run all this traffic through there is going to be a big problem for potential users in the future But they can run right down here to the south and they're right on the freeway go north or south wherever They've got to go the other thing is and This is based upon doing a number of these over the years Developers and people who are going to move into some new facility whether it's Sheboygan or someplace else They want to have It's a trite saying but shovel ready ground. They don't want to hear Yes, we're going to build this park and it's going to be really great in some day We're going to have streets. We're going to have sewer. We're going to have water and we're going to have the Scythe great. They don't want to hear that when the Hierarchy at a company decide that they want to do something They are extremely impatient. I'm sure you guys have dealt with this over the years They want to be able to get done that you're not the impediment to what the CEO wants to build his Big magnificent building out in through there They want to know that you've got that land available the stuff is there and then and in reality It's going to take them longer to get through the approval process and everything else than it is once you have Developable land so that's another key point on business parks Another good advantage of business parks that really good ones that are very attractive are a couple of things number one is You need to have a decent set of protective covenants if I'm going to go out there And I'm I make widget and I'm going to build my 20 million dollar plant I want to make sure that somebody isn't going to build next to me in a grass hat hut I mean that I realize that's an exaggeration, but I have an investment my Shareholders have an investment in this thing They want to know that whoever's going to build next to them or across the street is got the same quality of development Or better than what they've got because they're these facilities that are built will probably outlive Them and everything else, but that's what they have to their board of directors or shareholders have to account to them for The streets obviously have to be wide enough to work with without taking too much Right away up again You want to maximize yield in other words if you have a hundred acres You want to be able to sell as and develop as much as those acres as possible But the same time you have to have streets wide enough to move WB 55 that's a 53 foot trailer with a tractor on the front end those things are huge And they're not going to get smaller and they when you pull out of the driveway they got they'll be out into the other lane That's the way that it is But you have to when you put Medians down streets as an example You'll never know where the driveways are going to be and then these things to try and turn to the left to the right And then do a u-turn and go back. They just don't work that way They don't make Tonka trucks to work that way and the whole thing. So that's something that's got to get done Stormwater management is a big deal The first thing that goes on when you start developing one of these things you have to put in the stormwater ponds because It's not only just common sense, but it's it's good practice and it's also the DNR requirement so that as you're grading you've got someplace for the stormwater to go and what's going to happen Most likely in your part as it does in almost every part and I've been involved with 20 of them those are the first things that are going to go in and they The initial ones may be temporary until you can expand the park and you put the permanent ones in but the other thing is Sheboygan has The same types of things that our other communities have maybe at some points in time a little bit more And that's attracting help whether it's assembly line help or executives or administrative or professional people they like to Have things that are there because they're in these buildings all day long the park that we're in down in The city of P walking as an example It was not designed by us. It was not planned by us There's no sidewalks in that business park There's no walking path and when weather is like today When it's really nice out when it comes to be the lunch hour Which is usually from about 11 to 1 to pan pan with the various businesses We're everybody's out walking in the streets and there's semis coming around the corners in that It's just not good and it scares the Kajibers out of the people and the truck drivers or anything else Well, we've got shown on here is a path That's going to be incorporated around Some of the stormwater facilities slash parks, but there's also one throughout there So people have got some place to go even if it's in the middle of day to get a break to get out to do that But it's those type of amenities that help attract employees to these facilities next please Even your business park most likely would be phased most business parks are phasers quite a bit of land out there through there and It and you will be developing a financial plan obviously at some point in time if this goes forward, but Even though the park is going to be phased It's got to be planned as a whole so that when you put all the pieces and parts of the jigsaw together They fit in other words We have to do an initial grading plan for the whole area now whether or not that ever gets built or it takes Excuse me 20 years to get built You knew that the the earthwork is going to balance on the whole thing which is a big time-saving cost You need to know what the ultimate street pattern is because so you don't end up with streets like you know That don't match up and everything else you've got to do it That's why you need a plan for this whole thing and that's what we've done for the whole area south of the business center As I mentioned the stormwater management's got to work and it develops as the as the development progresses It may take 20 years to develop this whole area, but but it's always got to be workable at any point in time It's got to if you have Excuse me this cough If we have a recession in 10 years You want to make sure that what you've got built and what's been developed works and it fits and Then maybe in two or three years you start up the next expansion on the whole thing So it's it's looking ahead, but planning the phases so they independently work with each other We've come up with two plans here the first one that's shown here is what we refer to as the preferred concept plan and Incorporate some of the property that the City has control of and also incorporate runs all the way up to the existing business center This if you get time or when you get time to take a look at these boards either tonight or sometime later this week That's why I'm leaving them here. You'll see some of the detail that's involved on the whole thing Like I said, we provided the extreme amount of flexibility for these lots and the lot Configurations we have some things that are somewhat fixed like there's going to be a new water tower and it's located Where it's shown on these two plans, so we're working around that we want a street network That's going to work with the existing street. That's in the business center right now We don't want to have 20 different connections to okay. That doesn't make sense It's it turns we're building a lot of streets that you can't do anything on the whole thing This street network that we've put together the show here will accommodate any of the development any configuration It's out there. You'll also see it's a little bit hard to see on this PowerPoint and what Chad gave you but you'll see Some dash lines in there how we can take some of these larger lots and about through the use of cul-de-sac We can break those up internally also again the flexibility on the whole thing But the end of the day the backbone transportation system works The other plan that's on here, which is the the alternate concept plan That's just looking at the rest of the area from the interchange to the north to the business center because it's at some point in time It's got a fit whether it's 10 years 20 years 30 years down the road or something like that It's just good planning because we have to design and plan for the infrastructure the sanitary sewer the storm water The water all that type of thing has to be it doesn't care where it goes It's got to work for the whole area. So that's why the planning looks at the whole 400 acres. That's out there and doing that The last thing I want to mention before I'll open this up for questions any questions people have you'll see one map That's on there, which is this thing It's interesting to see it's really not discernible unless you get out there on the land I've been on the whole thing but this is a plot of the Existing elevations that are out there and you may not realize that between I 43 and okay There's 50 feet of relief I 43 is up here and okay is down here It doesn't look like that when you drive by it either on the interstate or when you drive down Business center drive, but it's that much that's really an advantage because When we go to design the grading the elevations of the final park on this thing We're able to do some things with that land so it doesn't look like a pool table Which is really unattractive and we can do some things with the land without moving Tens of millions of yards of dirt and make the thing work and make it look really nice Best example is we did one down a monomony falls called the Silver Spring corporate park where coals has their Corporate headquarters and that thing's got four or five tiers on there and it works out great because you don't want you Don't drive into this thing and see this massive buildings and streets and grid work and it really works nice And it makes it very attractive for sales and stuff like that That the last thing I want to go over to for you is the schedule Again based upon our experience of doing a number of these things if the city wants to start building in 2018 this is what based on my experience has to happen in The timeline involved again. We're looking at starting construction in the spring. This is a Depend upon how many acres we bite off on the first piece. It's still a one construction season project But we have to get everything ready to do that We need to take this planning document these pretty pictures and turn them into preliminary engineering drawings So that we can tell you because you're going to ask I'm sure how much is this going to cost me when you're all done with this whole thing a great question We have to do some engineering to decide to figure out how much that is we have some We have to get sanitary sewer to it. We have to get some water to it. We've got to deal with this grading We've got to deal with the storm water. We got to deal with the streets and the cost of those and they all fit together Each one affects the other ones. So we need to get that done and That is about a three-month process And if we can get started on that We can get done by October October date is really a critical date from the standpoint of it would allow you enough time to Develop a financial plan with staff on this and how you're going to pay for this thing How much of this can you bite off on the first one and then? After you get that done and you decide to go to the next step Then we would work on the final bidding documents for the same in other words finish up the plans get everything ready And that's about a four four and a half month process at at least in order to get this thing Whatever you decide to do initially Ready to bid in February February is a key date because as you all know living in the wonderful state of Wisconsin We get rid of this white stuff and the ground gets hard We want to be able to hit the ground running as soon as the weather gets decent in the spring a Couple of things are happening this year and next year as far as some of this is going to be a sizable project Not only for the city, but for the for the bidding Contractors are out there DOT's projects as you know have just about gone down to zero and we have a lot of Dirt contractors and large public works contractors out there that are going to be they're looking for work I can guarantee you right now I got three projects out for bid and I it's like we're getting prices that are really good And they're going to be a lot better even in the spring We want to be able to bid this thing in February take advantage of that bidding climate So that come mid-march begin of April when it dries out We can hit the ground running get the utilities in and get the grading done get everything done get buttoned up by Between Halloween and Thanksgiving We have to get this thing finished on the whole thing so that you can take Perspective buyers out there and say look we're doing it. You want to buy some of this Here's the layout on the whole thing. We're ahead of the game We have shovel ready ground for you to start on you can go out and hire your engineer and your architect and your planner and everything else And go through the approval process with the city and we can meet we'll be done before you are on this whole thing That is a huge selling point believe me But that's really what we're looking at for a construction schedule for 2018 There are some things that dictate this schedule like it's there the soils out there It's not sand and gravel in other words. We're limited We can't be grading out there in February and March and November and December week We only have the dry construction season to work with on this whole thing We have to do a wetland delineation of the entire Whatever we can get access to out here and that wetland delineation has to be done by mid October at the latest otherwise it doesn't count you have to have a certain ground temperature and the weather's got to be The way that it is that means that we have to get that done in time and we want to be able to have Utilize the full construction season of 2018 for the construction or whatever you decide the first phase should be as I mentioned You couldn't have picked a better time in the last ten years to get started on this thing from a pricing standpoint There's they're not building a lot of big highway projects next year, and you can really take advantage of that on there So with that mr. Mayor, I'll try to answer any questions if you or anybody else has Okay, well, thank you for that presentation any questions from the crowd John Very impressive. Thank you for the for the work in the overview One of the things you mentioned is that the cost is unknown and it will get that in time But further to the south we have to deal with Usberg who's giving land away. We've got a significant You know it looks like it's gonna be a capital project. We're gonna be looking at and You know when when they're giving land away, you know, what do you think? You know, you know how to market this and what the what's the price point gonna be you know over? Um Well, I think the the situation that you're referring to is from my perspective is an apple in an orange Yes, they have land down there and yes, the price point is probably lower than what you have up through there But the amenities that you can offer as far as visibility and readiness Is is an advantage of that there? And I don't mean this to be derogatory to any other place believe me. I don't but They're not the same municipality. They're not the same things people who if I'm gonna build a building and whether it's an office But I'm gonna build a hundred thousand square foot office building I've got to populate that with people and The people who are much younger and I are gonna work at that thing and they're gonna be attractive to what you guys Have done in Sheboygan, which is just phenomenal I want to college with some people from Sheboygan And so I spent a lot of time up here in my youth on the whole thing What Sheboygan has done in the last few years up here is just absolutely a phomal if I was a hundred years younger I'd be attracted to an area like this because there's stuff to do and think and say and everything else and Do something because I think I'll be on the eight hours or nine hours. I put under in the day I think what you're gonna be selling is you're gonna be selling Sheboygan You're gonna be selling the visibility You're gonna be selling the amenities that you have here in town as opposed to another location. That's more rural I mean, that's I'm not a real-estate professional. I can't tell you what you can sell this for I've been involved in projects that Land is what the land is and the market takes care of that whole thing in there But they look at prospective developers and prospective buyers look at a package I've what's my building gonna cost me what's the land gonna cost me whether utilities gonna cost me How what's our people going to cost me to get here? And how can I keep them here and make them want to come here to work for it? So I think what and you know this you have to sell Sheboygan This is part of the whole thing But it comes with the this is Sheboygan is is the wrapping on this whole thing and the visibility of this site I I believe quite strongly is a key selling point to this because if I'm gonna build my Taj Mahal As the chairman of the board of the widget company I want to have something that I can bring my family my stockholders my competitors to and say look what I've got here And you can see it going by look I mean, let's face it when you drive down the interstate and you see what acuity is done out there That's quite remarkable. No, you're not going to have God, I would love to see you get 400 acres of acuity like thing You're not going to have that but at the same time you've got opportunities out there that you can't have in a more Rural location. You can't even see It's a long-winded answer to your short question, but to me you have to sell the package Is there go ahead John, did you have a follow-up? Okay, any other questions? Henry Nelson It has not but I don't I knew that they were working on that this year I don't see that as a problem any place that we're going to have an intersect one of the things That's on the list and I've given the city a shopping list It's as long as both of my arms of things we have to do it in what order We have to coordinate those intersections with them because it's a county right away We would but there's nothing that's going on out there that would prohibit anything from here being done We're going to have to build some intersections, but it's nothing more than okay Most likely at least for as long as I'm around will still remain a two-lane road There's going to be widening at the major intersections once we do we have to coordinate that with the county That's one of the things first things that's on the list that we have to do We also have to talk to the DOT because you'll see that we're talking about Possibly doing some things with the existing front-end road out there or not, but that's county and DOT property That's also a number thing. That's way up on the top of the list that we have to do. It's a very good question. You're absolutely right This is more than a city project. It involves a whole lot of regulatory authorities That we have to get all the people on the bus in the right seat heading the bus in the right direction It's like herding cats all the person Lee Wendalski You talked before about getting on my 43 as fast as possible What if the companies don't want to use I 43 but instead would prefer a real line How easy would it be to put a real line in that area? Putting rail lines in and I The job I had before I worked in Rick and milk I worked for a railroad that was 40 years ago But so I understand railroads railroads Getting rail access and getting rail lines to anything is very complicated because they look at one thing How many carloads of stuff are you going to use every day forever? That's what it is because before they're they're willing to But they showed up with a blank Blank check they're still not going to do that because they want to make sure that there's going to get enough It's going to get enough use. Is it possible? Yes if we got a user in there in the right that we'd have to put them in the right location then you work with the The railroad and it's a it's a long process, but it's doable, but they're looking at this It's they they're not going to put one foot of track out there Because railroads are really really really expensive unless you can guarantee them a whole lot of Carloadings on a daily basis. I've worked a Hartford industrial park On the west side of heart We ran a rail line in there off to Wisconsin and Southern that serves quad and a couple of other ones It's doable. You just have to provide enough use for it Thank you. Any other questions? See none. I mr. Everly. I'll thank you very much for your presentation Chad. Did you have anything you wanted to wrap up? Okay, then we'll return to the agenda. Thank you very much. Thank you Next item is public forum city clerk Yes, we have for this evening first on the list is Terrence Doyle Terrence if you could And Terrence, can I have your home address, please? 1135 Broadway, okay, and you will have five minutes, sir. Thank you. Well, I'm back in thanks for the two words today information and Communication and sharing as much information. I can about this water lateral project going on from 7th Street 13th Street I've shared the information about How I feel it's a how fair or unfair it is on the cost of the Police powers assessment by ordinance. I share the fact that that's the ordinance does not really apply to the assessment share the information on the Which I share with the Common Council a couple different times here First before the vote afterwards with a letter to the Common Council. I've shared this information again with the Water commissioners just this last week and they've sent back the letter with the accept and file That's why I'm here before you accept and file I thought I'd throw it out here one more time because I'm just don't want to go away so the fact we had a good meeting the Water commissioners and we discussed the price point and how they come up with it. They come up with a price based on Coating by the contractors and the use the way to keep tack tab of the contractors is having quote by foot Granted there is footage for supposedly a property owner from the Long side of the road to the short side difference in length or cost We understand that that's how it Layout is we also discussed that they they could take the numbers. This is off their sheet and they have it Total total and divided amongst how many services are part there So each house has one pipe coming in and that's what you pay for you how the whole project is Budgeting cost is something they can develop in the in the process in the middle of it Then they can take that number and then distribute it out equally to everybody they discussed that we discussed They said yes, they could do that but then the conflicting say well, we have an issue of You know someone on the short side say well, it's really not the same because they're paying a little more than Because they only have a shorter run No, I guess I understand that they were nice enough to get the contractors to Push the numbers a little bit 20% one way More from the short side of the street, which is a short side of streets pays a hundred and twelve dollars a foot The long side of street pays ninety three dollars a foot I don't necessarily agree with the push to kind of try and balance things out because in my that's still not Fair game, I guess plain fair. That's that's trying to balance the number which I appreciate that much by the What they try to do there, but this I Don't think it's quite right. They try to come up with some other ideas of Giving credits credits and stuff like excuse me credits, but That's that doesn't go over well because then someone has to pay for that and credits are paid for a city I'm sure you guys gonna prove that so which is I would need it so The point I'm trying to get to is a communication. I can share as much information I can here I can try to get you to buy into it. I know the common council or Part of our commissioners Said accept and file it. I I didn't know the last time we're here. There's another sent to committee I didn't know I was committee. I look at that as well. Yeah, put the fox in the henhouse You know foxes when it's coming back the same sure and file because they ate all the hens already so This is a bad pun, but the But the next point of this and if it if you share if you accept and file is that this has been a pretty good Lengthy draw no process for me, and I don't mind. It's been it's been good. I've learned a lot I've learned a lot about the laws and I've learned how to find the laws and how to read them and interpret Everybody has a little different viewpoint on that again, you don't have to build by footage You can decide the common council can decide exactly how they want this to be assessed there However, however the process works the process that goes from here if it's accepted in fire Accepted in file is that the next step of my process here because I is to then file a Judicial appeal and that's all part of the forum I've learned a lot about common council and how things go through here and what to do And it's been very interesting and I really do appreciate your time consideration on this. I Don't know what you're also how much more information I can share I just can't seem to get the share of the information that communication is not working so well because I'm not getting through apparently But I'm trying that's all I can do I would really ask that answer any questions if anybody have a question about this That might be a little answer, but What you're doing and your time is up Terrence Your time is up. Thank you very much Have a happy fourth All right next on the list is Debbie Dame along Debbie Debbie, can I have your home address, please? Okay, it's 1704 North 35th Street Boigen Okay, you'll have five minutes. Okay. Thank you In regards to the Friends of the Black River Forest letter addressed to the common council about your responsibility to your constituents We don't want this rushed through hostile Annexation that benefits one man to the detriment of the residents of the town of Wilson the taxpayers of the city of Sheboygan and Lake Michigan the potable water for the whole Midwest not to mention the negative environmental repercussions to air quality that come with the destruction of a full-fledged forest sand dunes and wildlife habitat We are asking you to refuse the annexation and rezoning of the Black River Forest We your constituents pay you to represent us. I demand that you show me the numbers I want to see your logs of phone calls and emails made by city residents for and against Collars requests not made up numbers and I don't want to hear that you have just decided to vote for this This decision is too serious for that a golf course does not grow a residential base Unless you're thinking of refusing collars conditional use permit and rezoning to the SR5 in order to encourage Color to build subdivisions. However, that would be dishonest and devious Finally, this could be an endless pit of cost to city taxpayers For the first five years the city has to get the town of Wilson's share of the annex properties taxes to the town of Wilson There will be infrastructure costs water sewer fire Chemical runoff will pollute land and water including Lake Michigan, which we will have to pay to clean Wisconsin already rates among the 12 worst states for potable water And when he doesn't make the wished for profits from his golf course Kohler will sue the city of Sheboygan as he did the town of Mosul and the village of Kohler for taxes that he refuses to pay Extending the water line for the golf course property should be completely at Kohler's cost There is even talk that the only city water that Kohler would use would be for his clubhouse Not to water his green. Why would we extend water all the way to the town of Wilson and around at a cost of upwards of 10 million million dollars for city taxpayers when Kohler may not even use city water Promises are not deals if the town of Wilson sues the city on the grounds of hostile annexation Which overwhelmingly leads to litigation? Currently the cost of what Kohler will pay is a measly two hundred thousand dollars of litigation fees Knowing how costly litigation can be it was suggested that Kohler pay all litigation costs, which makes sense since this project is his Kohler's wish and he will be the one profiting from it Someone feared that we might lose a contract if we raise Kohler's litigation contribution Shouldn't that be a red flag that we could get stuck in a legal quagmire that could completely drain us financially? If Kohler pulls out that should be the signal that this is a real bad deal Then there are the litigation costs of landowners whose wells will either run dry or worse be poisoned from long chemicals Who will be stuck paying those fees not Kohler as a city resident? I want to stand good terms with the town of Wilson I don't want the city of Sheboygan to expand by diminishing the town of Wilson Which means that I want to respect the town of Wilson's boundaries and their master plan and visit for their town I do not want to condone or support Kohler's attempt to avoid regulation and to fast track This shady deal so that we don't get wind of all of the hidden costs I don't want our Presentatives to get wooed into the false promises of Kohler's sophisticated marketing team and vote for something without taking the time to check out All of the claims through unbiased third parties I also do not want to be an unwary victim of Kohler tactics Kohler is like a cat Regardless of anyone else which includes city or town residents Kohler will always land on his feet financially As the letter of the Friends of the Black River Forest states the town of Wilson residents will suffer of all of the immediate negative Impacts however, we the city taxpayers will be affected by the unknowns yet to be determined This is too big of an endeavor to gamble on as that Psychologists at the public hearing said if this deal seems too good to be true then it is Thank you. Thank you Next on the list is Mary fetish Mary if you could come up, please And Mary can I have your home address, please? My home address is 5631 driftwood Lane. All right, and you will have five minutes Thank you You have a letter you received a letter from Friends of the Black River Forest Claudia Bricks a co-spokesperson and myself started Investigating the Kohler company to find out what kind of developer was going to come into our town We had never I'm from Wilson. We had never heard any information on what Kohler planned for the Tented Forest There was no transparency in our town board. So we decided we would say well Let's look at who the developer is Is also the industrial psychologist pointed out to you the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior so you have that letter of lawsuits and reneging and Not following the rules and I'm not going to totally go into it But everything that comes everything that I say comes out of that letter and is a question to you of Please please it's almost begging pay more attention to who you are getting involved with There has been an incredible rush to get this through and Many many city residents know nothing about the annexation plan in fact the gentleman from Rukrit milky Gave a complete presentation which would have been nice To have been given on the subject of annexation to the city of Sheboygan residents They knew nothing and we hear that there was enough time for people to speak on annexation at the plan Commission meeting That was so rushed and The entire Issue of annexation had not been presented to the public when that plan Commission meeting took place We'd like you to explain to city residents why you're taking one developers word for it. Did you? did you accept the Developers environmental impact report vetted by anybody but the developer telling you everything was just going to be great There'd be no serious environmental impacts Do you realize that in the pre annexation agreement? There's no obligation for Kohler to build anything What's your plan beat? the public isn't aware of All the things that are missing in the pre annexation agreement all the questions that need to be asked and I just Want to say that on July 9th there is a group of city residents that we are very happy who came for who are coming forward and are having an open meeting for other city of Sheboygan residents to Talk to them about the questions that your plan Commission and your city government have not asked in terms of costs Economic impacts and environmental impacts, and they will be inviting you to come and they'll have experts there Who will be reviewing Kohler's economic impact report? Why hasn't your staff given you this information? Why do city of Sheboygan residents have to meet outside of here? To talk about all the things that have not been included in This annexation and zoning plan Important details on zoning and annexation have not been provided Just one little question. How will the installation of services affect current service users and Taxpayers no one said anything about that Ladies and gentlemen, you have had no meaningful interaction with your constituents on this very Serious issue of a contentious annexation for it will end up the profit of one company We believe there should be a new public hearing on annexation and zoning So that the public can have some information From which they can ask questions, you know to say oh people could have asked questions of the plan Commission meeting They didn't know anything They didn't know what to ask And I know there are people sitting there saying well, we don't care About you know what Kohler's reputation is in terms of a developer, but boy are we going to get out of a financial hole? We have so many things that Kohler is going to give this city I really want you to think about about that and whether your constituents want you to sell the city of Sheboygan to the company of Kohler and I think that when you become aware of unethical behavior in the condition of the lake and All of the serious problems in the state it makes it puts you on a level of being ethically Accountable and I hope that you will be thank you very much. Thank you, Mary And last on the list of the Ali Zay de Milan And Ali Zay, can I have your home address, please? Yes, I live at 17 04 North 35th Street in the city of Sheboygan Thank you, so I am Going to address item 4.4 on agenda in regards to correspondence you received from Jane Zabrowski about the pictures the pictures of the Access road that Kohler company plans on putting in through state lands to access his proposed golf course Property this would be like the description that would fit along with those pictures And it is part of the Kohler Park dunes state natural area and the reason for the preservation is that the site contains Excuse me excellent examples of Lake Dunes and beach communities two state threatened plants are present The description of this Kohler Park dunes is that it contains active and stabilized dunes One fourth mile of beach and a small dry mesic white pine forest There are several interdunal ponds thickly vegetated with lakeshore rush Some of the common plants that stabilize the dunes are sand reed Canada wild rye marim grass Northern wheat grass common and trailing junipers San terry and willow species in autumn the skies above the dunes are often Frequented by migrating raptors while the low shrubs and ponds are very attractive to songbirds This text comes directly out of the Kohler andry state park master plan that you can find on the DNR Website and more of their goals in this plan is that primary management Emphasis is on preserving the outstanding Outstanding scenic qualities and natural features of the parks the areas of most intensive concern are the dunes areas and the beach front These are the features that over the years have continually attracted visitors to Kohler andry state parks Almost any bird species that migrates through Wisconsin can be observed at some time of the year on the properties correspondence that the DNR seed when they put this Park this master plan together in 1989 said or part of it quoted Contrary to the National Park Service plan the department's master plan recommends that J. M. Kohler Park So that's the northern half of the Kohler terry andry parks be kept in a more natural state with limited Recreational development to further protect the rare plant species and communities and Kohlers remnant dunes the master plan will propose Expansion of the M. Kohler Park dunes natural area as discussed with the Bureau of Endangered Resources So not only should we not be putting an access road through that portion of which you have the pictures and Contrary to what Kohler company was claiming. There is no road currently through that parcel of land The master plan of the Kohler andry parks wants to expand That portion of the dunes because of its biotic significance Kohler andry state parks odor existence to the early acquisition of large blocks of land by Frank T. Andry and the Kohler family and Their interest in early conservation efforts So even the original idea of the land even by the Kohler family was for conservation an Area consisting of unspoiled beach a narrow Unstabilized Dune area on stabilized dunes covered with northern hardwoods was designated in 1967 as the M. Kohler park pines natural area this is the land that is Part of the proposed golf course area this 95 acre natural area located on private lands in the northeast section of the parks Lost as official its official designation when the Department of Natural Resources lease on Kohler lands expired as you can see all these designations by the park Can let you know how important this ecosystem is for the integrity of The Kohler andry state parks because the minute you fragment the ecosystem then a lot of these Wild a lot of the wildlife loses some of its habitat and At the time there are 242 acres of private in holdings that's included Including the Kohler land and others within the existing park boundary that impede development of a meaningful trail system and complicate administration of the park and Enclosing at the private Kohler lands are acquired and Additional three miles of combination horse hike hiking cross country ski trail would be developed So the whole plan of the DNR at that time was to add the Kohler Parcel to their land that they were trying to achieve that through state acquisition So when you're looking at this it's not just you know a road into his golf course of anything He should be accessing his golf course through property. He owns to the north not through state land. Thank you That's it for this evening Thank you very much. Next we'll go on to mayor's announcements First of all, I want to wish everyone a happy 4th of July in advance of tomorrow I'd like to remind the older persons that the parade lineup will start at 8 o'clock and we'll be right in front of City Hall and There's been some discussion in the community about not sharing where the parade routes going to be So the parade is going to start at 9 a.m. It'll go up a street to Michigan Avenue It'll go east on Michigan to Broughton Drive and then south to the YMCA And if anybody is interested in learning more about the other events they can visit Visit shabuigan.com the website has a complete schedule for the 4th of July Next we'll move on to a hearing item 2.1 is hearing number 5 of 1718 pursuant to notice published and personal notices sent by the city clerk a hearing is scheduled for this evening for the proposed assessments for Water lateral replacement in Michigan Avenue from North 3rd Street to North 4th Street. Is there anyone wishing to be heard? Is there anyone wishing to be heard? Is there anyone wishing to be heard? All the person wolf. Thank you mayor. I make a motion to close second Thank you for that motion and support all those in favor. Please signify by saying aye. Aye opposed The hearing will be closed Next we'll move on to the consent agenda that will include items 3.2 through 3.6 All the person wolf. Thank you mayor I make a motion to accept and file all our oaths accept and adopt all our C's and pass all resolutions and ordinances Second. Thank you for that motion and support the consent agenda is before us. Is there a discussion on any of those items? Seeing none will the clerk please call the roll for passage 14 ayes Motion passes Moving on to reports of officers item 4.1 is our number 71 of 1718 by the director of planning and development submitting a request From Chad Pellecek for the Discovery World Museum to dock the Dennis Sullivan at South Pier on August 15th of 2017 and waiving any docking fees All the person wolf. Thank you mayor make a motion to suspend and approve the request Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion? Seeing none will the clerk please call the roll 14 ayes Motion passes item 4.2 is our own number 72 of 1718 by the director of human resources and labor relations and the fire chief submitting the Sheboygan fire department Administrative study a report of findings and recommendations the city Sheboygan fire department administrative study July 2017 sections 1 and 2 All the person wolf. Thank you mayor. I make a motion to accept and file Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on that motion? Seeing none will the clerk please call the roll 14 ayes motion passes Next is item 4.3, which is our own number 73 of 1718 by the city clerk submitting a communication from Nina Staple regarding the annexation and the SR5 zoning of her property into the city Sheboygan all the person wolf Thank you. Mayor. I make a motion to accept and file second. Thank you for that motion and support All the person Nelson Thank You mayor If possible, I would like the just a city clerk have a copy of that letter in a possession there Because I what I would like to do if she doesn't is I would like to read that letter I find it kind of interesting because it's it's from a town of Wilson Resident that has a different perspective on the proposed annexation. I can read it with the city clerk. Please read that then Thank you See see squinting at this little screen here. Okay. This is addressed to mayor van der Steen and the council members I Own and live at 1202 stall road in the town of Wilson I have run businesses for 37 years and I moved to 1202 stall at a road as my dream location I signed the petition circulated by a co-worker company to annex my property both as an owner and as an elector I want to clear up the confusion and misstatements made at the June 19th council meeting I support both annexation and the SR 5 zoning of my property to me This is just common sense our town chairmen said I was going to Sell my home to Kohler company at the meeting This is not the truth as I love my home and made no such statement to mr. John Amen, I have been frustrated with the current leadership of the town of Wilson in this entire issue blocking so much needed income for our township We recently voted to pay extra to keep our While at the same time losing such a huge tax base by fighting the ballcourse While I understand that the city of Sheboygan's tax rate is higher than the town of Wilson's I expect more for my tax dollars in Sheboygan And I think regional growth is essential to avoid the likely alternative of stagnation Town leaders do not speak for me when they stridently object to the proposed annexation Rezoning and Kohler's plan golf course. I support all three because I've seen firsthand how property values will increase I owned land in the town of Mosul When whistling Straits was built and my land value has more than tripled This is a matter of property rights landowners should be able to make reasonable use of their land the SR 5 zoning for my property is essential To ensure that my use is permitted opponents may want to Excuse me opponents want to prevent any use of land along Lake Michigan Taking private land without paying for it is not right Kohler has been very generous with his property to all Wilson residents for years And now he wants to put his land to use that will only help the economy of Sheboygan When I first heard that I was being annexed to Sheboygan like everyone else I was shocked but after very quickly doing my due diligence of many calls and visits to different departments in Wilson as well as Sheboygan I made the decision that I am very much in favor of the annexation I hope you will join me in supporting the annexation petition and SR 5 zoning request Not just for the Kohler company, but for homeowners like myself with residents being annexed into the city I personally did not believe it would be fair to do any other zoning I understand that Kohler does have to apply for conditional use permits to get proper zoning for the golf course Thank you for your consideration in this matter sincerely Nina Stamp staple Thank you very much. Is there any other discussion on the motion? Seeing none will the clerk well, it would you just do a voice vote all those in favor of the acceptance file Please signify by saying aye. I opposed motion passes Item 4.4 is our number 76 of 17 18 by the city clerk submitting a communication from Jane Zabrowski Regarding photos of Kohler's proposed development sites on State Park property taken by Jim Buchholz the past superintendent of Kohler Andres State Park Alderperson Wolf, thank you mayor. I make a motion to accept and file Second thank you for that motion in support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none all those in favor, please signify by saying aye opposed motion passes Item 4.5 is our own number 74 of 17 18 by the city clerk submitting a communication from the Friends of Black River for us Sharing what they have learned and experienced over the years following the Kohler company's actions and private relation Representations of their projects all the prison wolf Thank you, Mary. I make a motion to Doesn't even have a motion Except in file. Thank you, sir. Thank you for that motion in support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none all those in favor signify by saying aye opposed motion passes Item 4.6 is our own number 75 of 17 18 by the city planning Commission to humans refer for Resolution number 36 of 17 18 Alderperson bitters and Donahue approving the capital improvements program and Recommend by the capital improvements Commission for the program period of 2018 to 2022 and adopting the program for implementation Alderperson Bellinger Thank you. I move to accept adopt and pass resolution Thank you for that motion in support. Is there any discussion on the motion? I'm sorry. Who seconded motion? Thank you Seeing no discussion will a clerk please call the roll for pass all person Bellinger I've I've got some, you know grave concerns regarding The amount that is on here. It's almost 12 million dollars 11.8 11.9 You know when you figure in City Hall as well as the you know the 5.3 million for the for the capital In the past years, we've been used to borrowing three million dollars a year last year. We approved 9 million which was a 200% increase You know now this year. We're looking at almost 12 million, which is you know 137 percent increase We've got last week or last meeting I asked the question. How much money do we have in our reserves and I was told It was 10 million. Well, that's not the real number the real numbers of 20 million or 18 million somewhere in that range and What I would like to do is I would like to hold this document until Carol Learth could be present and she could address some of the ramifications of borrowing this kind of money and and also how we fund the City Hall and if it would be better to use some Of our reserves to do that I think that in light of everything that's going on around us if you look at that the state of Illinois the city of Chicago You know what's going on with the state of California when they get themselves into financial trouble by borrowing too much I don't think this is a road that we want to be going down And I think that having her expertise in her opinion and to be able to address some Questions from the Alderman would be very insightful Okay, we have a motion to hold on the floor is there a second Okay, we have a motion then Motion to hold is debatable Okay, so the discussion would be on the motion to hold other person Nelson Don't Anyone else all the person down here I'll speak against the motion This has been debated extensively Carol Worth has been present both at the plan Commission as what are the Capital improvements Commission as well as in front of this body to suggest in any way shape or form that our city is in financial Trouble that we are near bankruptcy that we are borrowing beyond our limits that we are being foolish I've heard the word used reckless a number of times is just simply not true when we put When we start talking percentages and we add City Hall into that percentage of course the number does look quite large City Hall is a one-off matter that we need to deal with and I think that using our reserves Strategically to cover part of that cost once we finally decide what it is We're going to do with City Hall certainly makes sense. That's why you have reserves at least to some extent Here's the problem when you only borrow three million dollars a year I liken it as I have a number of times to not maintaining the house that you live in You decide that you're going to put off the maintenance of the roof Because you don't want to borrow anything you're going to put off repairing the windows You're going to put off painting when you finally are forced to do these things the cost is much greater the extent of the work that needs to be done is much more extensive and You haven't done a good job of maintaining your house or in this case We haven't done a good job of maintaining our city if there's one thing that we heard in the last election The condition of roads in this city is abysmal and we need to address it now I sit on the capital improvements commission. We went through Trust me. You look at that document line by line by line Each department head came in and made full justification for all of the requests that they were making These are basic maintenance issues that we need to address And to put this off any longer and to have Carol Worth come in one more time and say you guys are in pretty good condition You know, you've borrowed at 28% of your statutory rate And then vote makes no sense to me I think we need to get this taken care of tonight It has been thoroughly vetted the five point three million dollars That is the real capital improvements part of this is a reasonable and necessary part of everything that we're looking to do We just need to take care of these things and we can't put them off any longer We could continue to just borrow three million dollars a year the roads can continue to get worse. We cannot replace equipment We cannot borrow at reasonable rates as we are doing now We can wait four or five or six years as the holes in the road get deeper and deeper And the equipment becomes less and less usable, but why are we doing that? That I would suggest to you is the reckless way of approaching city business Let's just get this taken care of tonight. Please vote against the whole motion and let's approve this budget Thank you for those comments all the person wolf. Thank you, mayor I agree with Mary Lynn wholeheartedly. I am I'm amazed that we're again Discussing the situation about borrowing money. We've had We've had her come in several times. We have talked about borrowing We have tried to educate the the group to understand that three million dollars is a very very small amount of money I believe it was even last year when I questioned the three million dollars We we wouldn't have even been able to Establish the mandatory items because it came in at three point one million We've heard it from our constituents over and over and over fix the roads take care of things that are falling apart and We need to do that and I I understand we have a five-year plan, but it's a plan It's a goal. It's an opportunity for us. We can change it as we go the things that The capital improvements group has been looking at are things that are needed and like Mary Lynn had said You know if we don't take care of the city, which we haven't been doing for many many years The problems that we're trying to fix today are not the problems that we have created as a council They are problems that have gone on and on and on as some people would say the can has been kicked down the road The problem that we have today is we can't kick the can down the road because the holes are too big It doesn't roll anywhere. We need to continue to move things forward. We have to do it in a responsible manner We have plenty of people that are very knowledgeable. We have our city administrator. We have I Can't think of her name again Kathy or the one that John wants to bring in that would be Carol. We're Carol. Thank you. I'm sorry about that We've had Carol come in on many occasions whether it's just for finance or for counsel I I don't understand why we have to keep beating this horse to glue when we we've already established the fact that We have borrowed more than we have in the past couple of years We've been putting it to things projects that need to be done I think we're doing a good job vetting things and making sure that we're being responsible on that I Take I understand the fact that we don't want to just continue to spend money Frivolously, but the rates are very good right now and we are trying to get caught up in the in the Cuts that have been made year over year decade over decade. So please vote no on this item Thank you. Alderperson boran Thank you, mayor. I don't really have much difficulty with the borrowing the 5.3 However, I wasn't able to attend the meetings When this was discussed Can somebody explain to me the rationale for borrowing? 6.5 million for city hall when we I'm going by what alderman Bellinger says we have 18 to 20 million dollars in reserve and Then also, how much do we anticipate that that? reserve will grow in 2018 and 19 for example that would allow us to maybe Take more out of the reserves rather than budgeting as much for the borrowing the 6.5 Administrator hofflin, can you answer that question for all the person born? question before you is the Two two elements one is the total estimated cost for Rehabilitation or renovation of this building the second is how to fund that As was stated earlier the city has approximately 20 million dollars of overall fund balance of which roughly half of it is In excess of our stated policy of having roughly 25 percent of our Fund balance in the general fund for reserves So anything over that 25 percent would be available for the city council to consider or spending for projects Of the nature of large capital like like a city hall So in essence the 10 million is the amount over and above the 25 percent So not all 20 million would be available if you were to follow our existing policy regarding reserves in the general fund The capital improvement program that was presented being conservative In recognition that the Bray architect study has not been Completed they are in doing their due diligence at this point in order to be conservative. I guess on the high side 10.5 million was used again. This is simply a planning document Of that 10.5 again, the a number was was Incorporated into the document of four million dollars of use of that fund balance in the general fund with roughly With an essence 6.5 to be used As a revenue source being general obligations debt It's going to be up to the city council ultimately to finalize the the specifications for that city hall project So whether it comes in at 10.5 it comes in at 8.5 I think the original range was roughly 8.3 8.4 all the way up to over 12 million So the 10.5 in essence was staff's attempt to come in at at middle ground So the council will have an opportunity to fine-tune the specifications ultimately when the bid opening the council again will have an opportunity through Addendums to add or subtract based upon the bids This is a planning document Once those bids are open then the council can finalize again what they feel comfortable as far as using fund balance Versus what they consider what they're comfortable as far as issuing general obligations bond job general obligation bonds as all their wolf identified The city had great success this last spring with the issuance of our 2017 general obligations bond We had very favorable interest rates the forecast is and It appears that again, we will have low overall low interest rates, which again is favorable for the city Should they consider a borrowing amount that is? Higher than past roughly three million dollars With the exception of last year want to follow up please if I could follow up Darrell when when do you anticipate that with the council is going to get some information on the cost of the renovation? And you know that we have some options My my understanding and again director public works David Bebel is in the audience It's going to be roughly another month and a half So would it be would it be better? What's what's the timeline on borrowing the 6.5 because if we're going to have information in a month or a month and a half And it turns out that we decide to go with a nine million dollar version rather than ten point five or whatever the case may be Wouldn't that influence about how much we actually want to borrow for City Hall? Again the purpose for capital improvement planning is to be able to create a planning document the council at any point Based upon additional information can make revisions. So again, this is a planning document my hope is that as the city staff begins to Work in earnest on the 2018 budget Prior to the to the point where an executive version of that budget is presented to you By that time we may have additional information. So my recommendation as part of that executive budget may be a lower amount Associated with the 2018 borrowing for this project. So as additional information is available We will update our documents and the next opportunity after this Action is taken tonight Would be the 2018 proposed budget and again my expectation is we will have additional information And so that number will be fine-tuned. So in other words, we're not going to borrow We're not going to have Carol worth come up here and give us a You know a projected borrowing agreement at at at our next meeting This is going to be a little bit down the road. So this this 6.5 is still subject to change is what you're saying Yes, so we anticipate similar to 2017 our 2018 borrowing schedule probably Result in a borrowing in April So we have a lot of time between now and then and I don't want to get too much into the weeds of Remodeling City Hall, but is there a study going on of of in this entire building as far as desks and Computers and everything everything else. Is there a study going under going on of what we're going to be able to maintain and not buy A new because that to me would be a huge savings. I mean if we have to buy New desks for every department when the other ones are personally Functional, you know, they may be old, but they're functional There may be a tremendous savings in that that's going to knock down that You know that if the ten million dollars is just brick-and-mortar Or does that include, you know replacing all of the fixtures in City Hall? I hope we're looking at ways to reuse some of the things that are over to here my understanding at the present time Bray architects is working On developing an analysis more of the bricks-and-mortar as well as HVAC system As you know, the concept that I think was supported by the council did include looking at Reorienting the building to the north as opposed to right now to Center Street So involved looking at their city involves An analysis of a small, you know addition on to the north side, which would be the primary access point I'm not aware that they are looking specifically at this time on on personal property, which would be desk chairs Do you think that would be a good idea that somebody does that study? That's my understanding that study will be done But at the present time they're working on what they think is sort of the media media Portion of their scope of services Thank you all the person holds you I just need one point and then to clarify and then a one question I know that all the men down to you and will fit been saying that we spent three point three But didn't we approve five point three? already Sorry We approved the borrowing of five point three not three point three And they were referring that we spend three Year, well, we've spent three million dollars a year and capital improvements up until last year where we went up to five million This is a little bit over it at five point three Okay, so city hall one year. Yes, and my I'm wondering is it possible to know what the interest rate is a ball? at this time I mean in a ballpark What it might be because it makes sense to borrow more money at a lower interest rate In in the audience is a director of finance Nancy bus. Is it 2% 2.07? Ten years we payment schedule All the person boring I Had one more question that I forgot to ask and that is on the On the 18 to 20 million dollars that we have in reserve. What is our return on that money? We have presumed we have some we have some or all of it invested You know we may be borrowing at 2% or whatever it turns out to be well, what's our rate of return on that money? Pardon me. Thank you. I guess for those that may be listening Be a cable or on demand it. She said one point three seven The city of Sheboygan is restricted as to the type of investment Options And as a result there are some limitations and that ultimately affects our our interest income. I understand Is there any more discussion on the motion to a table? seeing none That's clearing my throat roll to table or to hold okay. I vote would be to hold naval would be not to hold Jim I don't have yours. I Said me Pardon me. No, I don't have gyms Oh here's I was on the wrong screen. Okay. Got it. Thank you Oh Two eyes 12 nose Motions defeated. Okay. We're back to addressing the main motion to accept and adopt and pass the resolution Is there any further discussion on the capital improvements program? All the person Sernsson Okay, I was just reading it before but could someone explain more I think it's on okay. There's no page numbers I'm more curious about this this downtown parking garage and what the plan is for that I know that there's been discussion at previous council meetings in the past before I was on but From my work dealing with parking garages in the past I know those are can be very costly projects and the return on the investments can be close to zero So just I don't know what the thinking was behind that go ahead Currently the city Hasn't a consultant engaged in a study. They've done interviews of staff as well as a downtown business owners as well as Employers a larger employers in the downtown area. My recollection is Now that we're into July sometime this month Draft report will be made available the intended revenue source for this is tiff district related funds so not general obligations Also some user fees No use of fund balance. So primarily Downtown tiff related funding will support this project should should it get a green light Thank you any other discussion Seeing none the clerk, please call the roll for passage 13 eyes one no motion passes Items 4.7 through 4.13 will be referred to various committees Under resolutions 5.1 is resolution number 42 of 1718 by our Alderperson Wolff authorizing accepting a grant from the Sheboygan From Sheboygan County in the amount of $6,925 to be used towards the 88 kayak canoe launch facility at Kiwanis Park see that'll lie over and 5.2 will be referred to the public works committee Under reports of committees item 6.1 is RC number 65 of 1718 by finance and personnel to whom was referred Director referral resolution number 39 of 1718 by Alderperson Donahue and boron approving the fiscal year 2017 one-year annual action plan for the community development brought black grant program Submission recommends passing the resolution All person Donahue Move to accept adopt and pass the resolution second Thank you for that motion in support. Is there any discussion on the motion Seeing none will the clerk, please call the roll 14 eyes motion passes item 6.2 is RC number 66 of 1718 by the finance and personnel committee to whom was referred director referral resolution number 40 of 1718 by Alderperson Donahue and boron Authorizing accepting a grant from the Fund for Lake Michigan in the amount of $30,000 to be used for the adopt a beach and adopt a coastal habitat education program and recommends Passing the resolution Alderperson Donahue. Thank you mayor. I move to accept adopt and pass the resolution second Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none will the clerk, please call the roll 14 eyes motion passes item 6.3 is RC number 61 of 1718 by the finance and personnel committee who was referred our own number 62 of 1718 by the city clerk submitting a request for mayor van der steen on behalf of the city to use One of the city's free blue harbor conference center days to host a meeting of the urban alliance league of municipalities on July 28th of 2017 recommends approving the request all the person Donahue Thank you mayor. I move to accept and approve the request second. Thank you for that motion and support Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none all those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion passes Under matters laid over item 7.1 is resolution number 35 of 1718 by Alderperson Donahue and boron Authorizing establishing an appropriation in the 2017 budget for purchase of land and building Alderperson Donahue. Thank you. I move to pass the resolution second Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Alderperson borne just for the people at home that might be watching this is for the city to purchase the old Social Security building right across the street from City Hall Thank you for that Information is there any other discussion all the prison sirens and so I know kind of our thinking behind this was That you know we're purchasing this building as to help transition with with the new City Hall renovation Is there any plans after you know once the City Hall is done? What we oh yeah, we did discuss that what we're going to use for after once the City Hall is complete Chad Pelle check would you like to answer that question? I guess like my question is has there been any additional Planning or anything with that as well At this page we have not Thought about what it would be. There's some I believe there's opportunity that will present itself as we move forward whether this is a continued use as a city facility of some sort or Repurposed it into downtown office building or a part lease part sell I guess we just haven't thought about it It's just that it makes it makes sense right now for us to try to lock it up to get at least the three departments finance building inspection And clerk's office potentially in there so that the residents have a one Stop shop as we migrate out of this building for construction Okay, any other discussion All the person down here and just to add I mean I think we are being a little bit more Planned full about it than just using it as Something for the renovation because then it'd be pretty expensive. I think it's really kind of a strategically located piece of land We talk about how the city grows Cities not only grow by expanding their territory But by using the land and the opportunities that they have within their boundaries And I think this is an example of how we can improve the density of what happens in downtown Sheboygan to expand tax base and to make and to and to actually grow the city So I think this is a terrific idea beyond just you know the renovation piece of it Thank you Administrator Hoffman, I guess I'd like to add a little bit to the financial aspect of this purchase the city as it considered possible rent During the time of renovation of this structure comparing it to the acquisition cost We would have incurred over 25% of the purchase price in rent for our 12 month period of time or 12 12 to 16 months period of time So the thought was to take advantage and acquire especially since it's adjacent to our existing city hall And it would give us the flexibility as mr. Pellecek identified earlier to either consider it from municipal use or to use it For purposes of redevelopment or or business attraction Thank you Any other discussion That's the clerk to call the roll 14 eyes motion passes item 7.2 is resolution number 38 of 178 by Alderperson Wolf authorizing the purchase of 606 North 9th Street to form a social security office for the future use by the city All the person will thank you mayor make a motion to accept and adopt second and pass resolution Thank you for that motion in support. Is there any further discussion? Seeing none will the clerk please call the roll 14 eyes motion passes Other matters received after the agenda was published a city attorney 8.1 is an arrow submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31 2017 June 30 2018 and June 30 2019 That'll be referred to the law and licensing committee 8.2 is an arrow received by the city clerk submitting a communication From Roger Miller town of Wilson plan commissioned chairperson Regarding the Kohler company annexation petition in the town of Wilson that will lie over Next we have a discharge from the committee the whole motion If these first two items nine one and nine two are passed then we can talk about nine three and nine four Otherwise, we won't be able to so the the first motion is to discharge the committee of the whole regarding RC number 60 of 1718 by finance and personnel committee to whom is referred our own number 19 of 1718 by the director of human resources and labor relations and the fire chief Submitting a report on the audit and review of the fire department's job descriptions Identification of any overlapping duties and responsibilities and recommendations resulting from the study all the person down here So move Is there a second second? Hey, we have a second any discussion on the motion With the name where the clerk, please call the roll John I guess I have a question for the city attorney if if if we didn't want to discharge this could be violet You can't do anything with it unless it's discharged It's currently at the committee of the whole okay, so the community whole so it has to be discharged Well, that's up to you. You can leave it in the committee the whole if you wish for them to do For you as them okay, so okay Then my question would be if if we discharge it then we have to act on it afterwards If you discharge it then you it is on the agenda for you to do something with then I could then we could file that you could Okay Thank you. Okay All their person boring. Did you have a question? I guess I ask Wanted to ask the chairman of the Committee of the whole what the rationale is for Discharging these I don't even know if she discharged at made the request But what's the rationale for discharging these Maybe without having trying to have another attempt to have a committee of the whole meeting all their person down here I actually did try twice and I was frankly somewhat surprised that I only heard from about half of the elders and could not determine On two attempts whether we could get a quorum or not From that I inferred that people didn't want to talk about it The committee of the whole and they would be happy to talk about it at a city council meeting from my perspective either is fine The advantage committee of the whole is that we have more extended time for people to Discuss matters. We are not limited to the rule that we only get to speak twice On a matter which sometimes is violated in the breach here, but nonetheless So I Was thinking maybe it's summer people just aren't into figuring out their calendars. I just wasn't sure what was going on so If we want to not discharge this and take it back Well, I think this is a matter that needs to be addressed. It's not urgent and And it's something that we could spend more time on so it's really up to up to the council's pleasure about what you want to do I'm happy to have the committee of the whole meeting That's fine with me. So whatever folks want to do Thank you for those comments all their person holds you Thank you. Can you tell me what I need to do to send it back to committee of the whole and Not discharge it and you don't know you would vote no on what we're talking about All the person boring Ah, that's basically good. Okay. I'm good Okay, so then a sense no more votes with a clerk call the roll for discharge Okay, so if you vote yes you're voting to discharge committee of the whole and Handle it tonight. You vote no You're putting it back in committee of the whole For this one document two eyes 12 nose motions defeated 9.2 then it's before us Motion to discharge the committee the whole regarding resolution number 30 of 1718 by elder person Bellinger Authorizing the purchasing agent to enter into a contract for professional services related to the performance of the operation and Departmental structure of the Shabuigan fire department all the person down here Is there a second? Okay, we up who's second. I'm sorry all the person sorenson under discussion all the person Bellinger Thank you I would recommend that we do just what we did with the previous document and vote no for this and send it back to the Committee the whole I spoke with Alderman Donahue prior to this meeting and like she stated earlier that she is Amenable to have a meeting so if everybody were to be so polite as to reply to her when she sends out an email That that would be greatly appreciated I mentioned to her that I could speak to this issue for 45 minutes to an hour But I don't think anybody wants to listen to that tonight, and I would like to have the The gentleman Steve Knight from Fitch and Associates who did the presentation and who was selected by the city administrator in the committee to Move forward with the study And have him here in present so that he could give his presentation Those of you that will remember that when he did his presentation before there were Technical difficulties and it was very cumbersome and he wasn't able to give his PowerPoint presentation the way he intended it So I think it would be nice to have him back and be able to speak to the depth of his organization the depth of the study would it would entail and In the expertise that they have in this specific area, so I urge Everybody to vote no so it can go back to the committee of the whole and be properly vetted Especially see how we have a new council and we have new alderman to get the history behind What is transpired and why we're at this point where we're at so thank you. Thank you for those comments all the person trust her It seems to me that a few minutes ago we were talking about Borrowing and why this is coming up again, and I guess I have the same question We have voted this down twice So why are we going over it again and again? Or is this going to be something that is going to be brought up over and over and over again every time the council votes it down We're going to bring it up and hope that somebody will change their vote personally. I think it's a waste of time Thank you for those comments all their person sorenson my question is going back to Guess if we don't discharge this what's what's the plan moving forward to schedule a committee of the whole meeting? Because I think it is frustrating when only half the council fills out a doodle poll. I think maybe you know We have 14 folks here tonight Maybe setting a date for the committee the whole meeting tonight before the end of the meeting or just pick You know another Monday. That's not on the same Monday as a council meeting. That would just be my recommendation Thank you for those comments any other discussion So, you know further discussion with a clerk, please call the roll for discharge Okay Alderman Bellinger explained it really well all you're doing is voting. Yes To discharge or no not to discharge and put it back in community hole When I 13 knows Motions defeated other person wolf. Thank you mayor Make a motion to adjourn second Thank you for that motion and support all those in favor of adjournment, please signify by saying aye. Aye opposed we stand adjourned Thank you very much