 Welcome to our guests. Okay, how are you all tonight? Good, thanks for coming out. Any agenda recommendations? I got some homework in terms of processes that we might use in talking to Susan Clarke about possible things for the Communications, so I would like to have a chance to put that on the agenda presented to the board and then see what if anything I just wanted two minutes to talk about the board public communication But it sounds like we're already getting Long on agenda revisions, so I'll see where we are and if we want to table out for another meeting I'll be open to it. I agree Brian and then also I wanted to know what was happening with the treasure not having insurance Any public comments with our clients? Do we need to Do we need to talk to the 911? Yeah Any questions? Yep Do anybody have a guess? We'll be that up. We'll take the 3.3 Oh, okay we'll move the Anybody going to move the Provol of the board meetings? One minute from I think there may be some it goes for very difficult minutes And I suspect there's some conversation So we could have a motion a second and then the discussion Second I have some does anyone else Just a brief Certification of something that I said Let's see on this on page five Thank you. I think is this the one about a relative chair. Oh Page two, thank you It says miss teach up feels that mr. McVeigh is in the best position to deal with miss Toth and mr. Kimball with a sense of curiosity that What I meant to say was that? To deal with And that he has a sense of openness and curiosity that I think are very valuable Yeah, my my edit and I was going to also state that I can see how it would be difficult to capture it My concern it's on page two. My only concern is that somebody reading it who wasn't there for the whole discussion it's Second if we want to call it a paragraph miss may feels it's essential to run an efficient and clear meeting She agrees that the board needs to reach out to the staff as a board. She is concerned with following open meeting laws May look like I have concern about that about me following it or that we in general don't my concern was specific to the discussion around Chris McVeigh is chair as chair and the fact that in emails the need for reminders about open meeting law So my preference would be either remove it if there's no way to capture the whole thing or put it in and at least Make sure that it was in reference to The support for that position Does that make sense? I think the support for the position more captures what the discussion was So I'm fine keeping it in so that people reading it know that So yes, that would be fine to keep it in that would be my preference, I guess. Thank you I Yeah, it was I just so happened to read in the Times Argus That day this thing was saturday or sunday an article about our lack of compliance amongst many other schools in in regards to comprehensive 9-1-1 Services best describe it and so I guess I was curious to know it sounds like this has been an issue The surf in the survey that this report came out of this from last June, but I just I guess I'm interested in knowing why we Weren't aware of it or maybe we were and I just don't remember it So I didn't bring you this issue I'll start that every year since the past four or five years We've had to certify to the state Our compliance with So we explain what the requirement is If you pick up that point about One line that not only shows 9 30 gas in the road, but shows That's what this is about Our phone systems in every school Wherever the phone's located it shows the room number will come into the 9-1-1 operator It says this phone call is coming That's what they're talking about all our all our phone systems every year we have to annually certify that We're in the midst of doing that again for this year So is this wrong It says planning compliance within one-year Berlin Calis Doty East Montpelier, Romney I haven't said it's wrong It's a document that she has to fill out You know how the system is tested so that it's a program in a very Program that extension Just kept it here someone who's that phone Jumping jumper I Think it would be beneficial to Just give it in particular Gordon drichelot But yeah given the sort of the climate The now of a correction issue and a correction It might be helpful I don't know if it doesn't sound like people have at least contacted you about it But I would imagine that some people would be concerned No, I just I thought it would be productive to have the superintendent's office just kind of I'm not So I make a motion that we approve the response to the AoE Unfortunately For one It's quite clear in his review and his press conference yesterday, I believe it was I think it was yesterday. Yeah, this happened on Tuesday. Yeah, so yesterday saying that Keep We have the Resolution on gun safety and school safety and gun use I think we're talking about what if you propose another resolution regarding Recognizing the use of gun culture in Proposing a resolution Yeah, I don't necessarily know that we need another resolution. This was my issue. I think that Let me sort of try and lay out a little bit more fully what I'm worried about Which is that I think that there are I mean there clearly are sort of class divisions in our community and that those can and often do run along the lines of Gun culture tends to be more associated with the blue collar part of our community and that School administrators and school boards and teachers tend to be perhaps less associated with that and so my concern is that as a board We be very careful that communicating You know absolutely we pass this resolution and fully behind that But we also are careful to communicate that this is not about Guns this is about guns in schools And so I would be perfectly fine just with a simple line along those lines just to be very clear about what What the resolution is about I I Just I know partly because it's an issue in our house that You know it's a sensitive issue and that people feel sometimes like administrators and teachers and school boards don't know or understand their Their culture and so I want to just be very careful about how we're received Well, I Mean what about something very simple about the Romney board wants to sort of just acknowledge or resolve or whatever that the Resolution that is past is about schools guns and schools. It's not about guns per se, but guns and schools And I like the line about recognizing there's a tradition of responsible gun ownership. I think that that Is Culturally specific and I think it also is about responsible gun ownership that if people object to that, I totally I thought a lot about what Carolyn and Brian said and about what Woden said We actually carpooled home and so Woden's able to tell me about her being at like the gun And so I specifically asked some of my clients about these kinds of things And I do have a lot of clients who are very pro traditional the traditions of Vermont of responsible gun ownership and I I actually agree with Woden that I think it is a something that needs to be mentioned I rather disagree with the statement of traditional gun ownership, but I really like the idea of adding In the paragraph we the board of Romney Memorial School result that our elected official member of my house Is that it has effective gun mileage prevention And they use science such legislation into effect. I wanted to add maybe a sentence is that this comes Specifically from a place of projections of keeping guns out of schools and protecting schools So like trying to just really clarify that we the school board are saying this about schools And that's it and not really making any comment. I thought it might be better to not make any commentary on Anything else besides all this is schools But based on what I heard it seemed like it might be nice to be very specific about that So just to clarify we already adopted and approved a resolution You want to amend it and re-adopt and have it as the statement included? We in that original reds resolution or add that line separate, right? So I guess we could either add Just an amendment to it saying that this Resolution was adopted with School the use of guns in schools in mind and relate specifically and only to schools Or maybe somebody can think of a better way to say that I think So I've been reflecting on this as well quite a bit since our last meeting and I hear really what you're saying loaden You know, I I've hunted them on a hunter. I've shot guns different guns, but I don't own a gun So I actually I really respect the serious responsibility that that gun owners take in and possessing firearms Again, I feel like this is just not an issue in the purview of the school board to even be dealing with And I think also I think through back to about Two years ago when the black lives matter movement emerged and Or really picked up steam and there was that competing narrative to well all lives matter, right? You know, we've had here at running over this last year this idea that there are You know negative experiences and positive experiences, you know, and then we have this the issue of the guns and school violence and Seeing the kids in our local communities and across this country Have tremendous courage You know, I think that there are times when Sort of a certain certain voice a certain issue a certain group deserves to have their moment I Think that you know the majority of gun owners in this country are White men I think us white dudes have had plenty of our moments And I just I don't see this as being one of them So I would just like to allow this to stand on its own sort of in solidarity to what the kids are doing Not just here locally there across this country Isolating Take resolution for this Even if it's implicit Taking your life, but he's taking a dispatching a useful like Which maybe Or just The voice is encountered And but they their voices can be in a smaller Way, which will be negative so It takes away any Even though I recognize that They were a This For So it it sounds like well, thank you Ryan, I think that you raised a really good point that I hadn't thought of But I all I so I think Hearing what Woden had suggested and then the piece that Allison supports that she would take The piece that Allison supports removing the piece about traditional gun ownership sounded like something you were interested in Is that accurate and so that would leave remedy board acknowledges. It's not about gun ownership. It's about guns in school. I Think that would Weekend the resolve that we voted on last week that already states. It's about gun violence in school and You know, I didn't want the issue coming up because I felt like it put me in a position that was beyond my school board role, but I think that school violence and if we look at The a lot of the shootings that have occurred in schools, they Were legal gun owners until they misused them Sorry, I misspoke until they misused them You know the murders in Vermont of four people it was a hunting rifle And my understanding is it was legally owned until it was used by someone to commit murder and so that has that is not what this resolution has to do with but If we only dealt with the guns that came into school We would not be dealing with the issue of school shootings and that was what was put before us Was to make a statement around that and so my preference is to let it lie as is And and to go beyond that is I Think it's trying to keep everybody You know ultra happy and I would say like I think it's great that you reached out and asked, you know, your customers That's a great way to gather data But at the same time this was on the agenda there was an opportunity to email to come to the meeting People didn't I think why why are we addressing it brought it to us saying I'm offended by what you put to the legislature So I guess I have multiple feelings on it I would rather that we not hold on it and if we vote I won't be able to support it Let me just say that I Appreciate it much. I think For me, this is not necessarily worth board of tensions I do really appreciate the point that you may be in our previous meeting Brian about sort of when something is spoken It can be done in a certain way and then it can also be received in a very different way And that's the distance between our resolution and the way it's going to be received as a part that really Troubles me received specifically in our community. So that's my concern. That said, you know, I think it's good to do something very simple I don't want to create more for tensions. So I'm okay letting it go That should be fast, but Not that it wasn't a Witness this is enough Conversation I just want you to know Just some of the things that we're interested in looking at and then Chris and Amy or Whoever can take a look and and figure out how we might go about it sounds like bill has support for that approach Okay, so these are all from last year These are systems I identified for possible review based on our experience last year One is principal evaluation. How do we capture information that we should have known about? One is Let's see hazing harassment and bullying Being clear that our systems are good in terms of how these decisions are made communicated and reviewed now These aren't necessarily all board items, but these were systems that that I identified a breakdown in EST decision-making how these decisions are made and communicated that sounds like it's probably not an important issue Talking about enrichment opportunities on what basis they're offered ensuring that all eligible children are invited Can you repeat that one? Sorry sure Enrichment opportunities getting clear on what basis those are offered and how we can ensure that all eligible children are invited Removal of the principal Principal preservation policies Speaks to that. I may have some other kind of items under that The institution of a no-talk policy among staff around live issues Community communication with the community during and after moments of crisis Yeah The institution of a no-talk policy among staff What does that mean? Well, that's the last year when things were going down With Adams departure the staff were informed that there's previous principal. I'm sorry the previous principal's departure The staff were told that they could not speak about that We heard rumors that they were told So and you know and maybe they were rumors and so this seems a moment to sort of explore that So these are these are all systems and I'm not saying they're all equal priority They are items that I identified as systems that we might want to look at Board staff relations. How do we ensure good communication between staff and board? That's really the bulk of it And then you have two others of mine kind of on as future agenda items I think it's really important that we figure out how to heal board pensions or move together productively And I guess for staff communication is also That's quite a list Yeah, I have Mine kind of dovetail with what was talked about earlier at the full board meeting But Really having sort of mechanisms or structures in and place for how we operate and monitor as a board I'm really thinking about You know, what are what are our core responsibilities as a board around? So the educational opportunities and outcomes of students around our fiduciary responsibilities and then around school climate and You know, how can we how can we structure those in a way to have? Whether it's reporting mechanisms in place that will That will come about on a regular basis, whether it's like quarterly or annually that will allow us to to get a sort of a 30,000 to 17,000 foot view of what's going on, but hopefully will allow us to kind of do our job of helping to Support the principal and the superintendent And support the students in the school when it comes to making decisions on a budget For how they're necessary, but I just feel like if we had more if we are more intentional about the way we operated and Really were more focused on what it is that we are looking at I think we'd be more effective as a board and in their decision-making process It would be great to have goals associated with that Specific goals, but that's a different discussion. And then the other thing is you know at the The full border was you know, how do we work working? Across the supervisory union, how do we work across the supervisor union? But I would go more specifically to our board and I'd like to talk about how we engage In particular Doty the Doty board I think I think we need to that's a type of conversation we need to start happen Having sooner rather than later and that just seems like a natural starting I wanted to add to Whodan's piece about the EST Because it was a topic that we discussed in June And really recognizing that it was just an area that the Interim principal had identified as something that would need a lot of Work and some resources and I felt that it was included in the budget proposal that then was approved But an update on How things are going with the EST and if there's more that the board could do to support that process and So that was one that I just it was already on there, but I just wanted to add to and In terms of board tension I My thought was that I Anyway, I could have put it as an additional agenda item and I didn't but I thought that we were going to talk about board norms And and I wonder if doing board norms Before goals would make it easier to discuss and agree on and map out goals But I It's more of a comment. I guess on you know Whodan had commented that a goal would be did I Don't know if these are the words used but ease the board tensions and there is in the norms for the executive board There's one that's that states board tension and resolving tension at meetings and one of the ways that it describes that it does that is to have somebody say what the consensus of a conversation is so that the the Spirit of the conversation doesn't lie with the last thing that was said so something like that could be really helpful and it could It could help everybody feel like If I state something and then Allison states something and then Whodan states something Just because mine was three comments Doesn't mean that it didn't exist and wasn't part of the conversation. So having somebody who you know has a role of Summarizing could be really helpful. So I think in terms of board norms there could be norms that are in place that could help with Tension in terms of relational tensions. I think tension in terms of a 3-2 vote. I think Person I wouldn't want that as a goal because sometimes that can really show Diversity on a board it shows voting with integrity if it's if it's constantly the same 3-2 vote that should you know That could show something different or it might not So I wouldn't want a goal of always having five zero votes But I would want a goal that we have respectful dialogue and communication and I think we could use a norm That could help Over time when it's being followed that would help build trust and help ease 10 ease the Spirit of tension Oh, yeah, so the norm says she's referring to that we're on page two of our Full-Board meeting are actually the Romney norms that we adopted three years ago And the board adopted them the full board adopted them We had them at our we had a retreat because I said the way the phrasing of the one under tension I said those are my words That makes sense now So revisiting those or having them printed like on the back of an agenda so that we can always refer to them something like that could could Go a long way, I think and I would add Having target end times to meetings would help because it would give us a sense of how long we have to discuss an item that we all kind of agreed that you know things like a Productive meeting should be three hours or less Because there's a lot of data that supports that so having a goal of you know Three did I say too well the data suggests a meeting over three hours you get less and less cautious and so having a goal of You know we had we had casually mentioned it last year that we would have an 8 30 n time And if there was an executive session we would say nine But it was very casual and then we did have a lot of meetings that ended before nine Which was an improvement over the past year But if we really know that we if that is something we all agree on and we all work towards it Could make it a little easier to have Conversations and know how in depth we want to go on each one So that's it Yeah, so I'm actually really interested in this because I don't know much about being on the board really besides what I've read but everything I've read suggest strongly that having a really a Really tenacious Plan in place is really helpful for boards especially if that plan Coordinates well with the principal the teachers and the superintendent so in 2015 16 the Romney Memorial Board created quite An elaborate system of goals. It was on our website right now And I actually think that this is like a lovely template, but it's just way too big it felt overwhelming We save the world great. Let's do that So I think we need to just really narrow it down to a few things But I do like the categories that they had and I thought it might be really nice if we try to actually Adri Adrienne Thank you. Thank you. I talked to her about this because Bill mentioned that she had some strengths in this area And I'm hoping to talk to her about it more But I really like the idea in my mind before I talked to her of like, okay Look that let's look at all of our goals are four areas which according to this one And I thought they were pretty nice, but we're community engagement and fiscal long-term fiscal planning and responsibility Educational and academic learning outcomes, and I'm sorry. I've gotten a little like This is kind of been a work in progress in my head too. There was one more and if we kind of each Each session we okay. Have we addressed these goals in these four sections or anything in this section? And so for Adrian she actually breaks it out. She makes goals for the year and they go over one goal at each meeting So there were a couple that I thought were important And I would love to kind of outline these and see if we can get better, but bridging educational gaps That was one I had I called it bridging the gap and for you it was making sure enrichment opportunities were available to a broad set of people That was a really important one for me Let's see here Teacher innovation I feel like principal and teacher innovation like that's where our talent is it's at our school And what can we as a board do to really encourage? Programs that our teachers are interested in like what's going to get them really curious and interested and get them Really loving their job like I love this part of it And you know what I feel like that's a really anything we can do to that that for me that would be really important goal Community involvement I thought one way we could potentially do this is have a check-in session at the end of each You know one section of our meeting like okay I've heard from the community of broad strokes about this this and this and so we can start to see over time Okay, we keep hearing that we're hearing about this and I can bring up why I think we should do this when we talk about communication but it occurred to me if Five different people are concerned about things and they talk to five of us But we're not really allowed to like we never talk to each other about it because we don't really bring up single Does this make any sense? I'm saying Then how would we ever know that it's a problem, but if we kind of listed Somebody's approached me about this topic then we would know that and I Completely agree with Brian that I think being very intentional and making that we had overriding bowl Is this the board for the board? Is it not does it fall into one of our four categories or whatever categories? I think that that's helpful. So that's A not super well organized description I'm going to agree back on Brian's suggestion about moving each other out and then working with Dodie because I think the proximity would be really beneficial for both of us and just it's actually like the LAA's and maybe trying Scheduling we have we just attend each other's meeting group of two, attend Dodie and see if they're interested in attending us and actually just having brainstorming in terms of what we can have each other in terms of either space or sharing But exploring that and doing it like soon and I'm not natural that this year Another thing I think we should explore is the fiscal long term planning This issue came pretty close to I think the plan of his own and only avoided it by Shifting the capital funds Reducing the funding of the pie hat so I think we should have a sit-down with The goal with What we need to revise within our budget Probably is not I don't think we can avoid the my calculations I don't think we can avoid the penalty next year So maybe looking at getting information on on the penalty and and what it is and how it impacts us Because the way things are going now with salary increases alone We can't avoid the penalty without major cuts like Exploring What that may be yeah or or taking the penalty and making that decision and communicating it out something, but but addressing Sooner rather than live so we are taking making a really good choice of saying because of what we need for our school and our students This is what we think we need so really more involved in the budget process Another thing that But no one thinks that it is important because it's really Just trying to do something with the weather issue because that was a lot of Difficulty I think in the community and just trying to come out across the district and Establish a better system for calling school Probably better equipment For our buses with one thing, I think every pretty clearly from Paul Simoneris that those buses should have snow tires Not all season radials then just really focusing on that because We've been I think we've been lucky in terms of the buses and then off the road or not And we've not had any And and just it was a very enlightening conversation to Paul Simoner talk about You know part of the people prefer him and said he comes in 530 the roads may be fine But they're not gonna be fine to 830 because of what especially this time of year where the temperature of the road melts it so just talking about really trying to establish policy where we can And better sense as to Well, maybe it's the thing about but you know, it's the what if Or if only To go away from an agrarian calendar, which is now summers off They studied it for at least five years from 1991 or 1992 to 1997 like extensively turning Vermont into year-round schools and I Don't know what happened with it, but it suddenly was dropped I think it was the expense because we don't have air conditioning and there were enough there are enough days that it would be You wouldn't be getting any education to be in the building. We've had that at some of our board meetings at night So it's interesting to hear that it's come back up again She's not keen for it, but I would like to hear any thoughts that I Think Really We are closing gaps for kids as well as you know providing really Innovation Interest from teachers and we're actually Classes the summer that I've previously left over the state And I found out a way to kind of teach a class For them So And I would love to like just turn teachers lose Because it's really something they get I think any time we can increase the collaboration across School district across the community all of that is just I Also just want to add that The climate committee sort of has got undergone various transformations and has not been doing much lately And I think it would be useful for us as a board to Figure out if our original vision Revisit that and figure out if our original vision makes sense if the way it morphed makes sense You know, but be intentional about what's going on with that Do you mean the meeting like a Well, there was a climate committee that was involved composed of a couple board members various staff People from central office and then that kind of over the summer that changed sort of changed focus. So it was more of an internal school committee and So, you know, we had talked about three to five year process and you know Condemn making sure it was a very widespread thing And you know, so we just want us to be thoughtful about what's going on with that and make sure that the right thing is Because I was thinking we could each make a Plan and then look at our plan. Hopefully, you know one page kind of thing After hearing everyone's suggestions I think it would be helpful to have them on one sheet of paper and see where There's threads But you know, there might be like I as I was here in voting talk about something she's interested in they seem to be sort of Mechanisms, you know to achieve some of the things that I was I'm interested in so like Just having a way to see how these might fit together already But I think just seeing them visually would be helpful and I think this is going to take multiple meetings And say if they're those goals or it's forwarded What we do that what we do a minute with more into common form Mistaken anything Okay Okay any more conversation about that Okay Actually wait Chris I did have this material about community discussion So I realized that if we are going to get this done we need to Right now because make it's really crazy. And so it would have to be So I My concern is a community forum, which you know, I know we've had various discussions about I Talked to Wanted at least just get a bunch of information about what our options are Into both in terms of formats and people so we can then make a decision. I talked to Susan Clark She's been working with the town me solutions committee to plan a community vision to action process for the fall Working with Amy mentioned that in your report and soon to meet the select board and planning commission other local leaders The particular impetus is the five-year town plan update as well as the change of ownership of the can't be property Which I have not known about It's also clearly an important time for running community relationship The goal of that vision, which is not what I'm talking about is to focus on what we have in common In terms of vision for middle sex as a whole and there's a whole month's long process of community buy-in And she's looking at a date for mid-to-late September. So That was kind of background in terms of her Her interest I asked her about sort of what our options were for running appropriate forum And she shared this national coalition for dialogue and integration engagement streams chart And so the two the next two sheets are at ease Engaging streets and they go together And you look at the primary purpose That a name for the engagement screen key features important when Very different models you can use So one of the engagement streams is exploration. One is conflict transformation. One is decision-making One is collaborative action And she said it sounded like we were looking at the conflict transformation transformation box Although she didn't want to put us in there without but that was just a sort from what I what she understood She said if the board wants to move forward with this it would be ideal to do it soon For example the spring to help set the stage for production productive vision to action process in the fall Which isn't she's seeing in a collaborative action box So she said the first thing a facilitator is going to need to know is what our goals are for the process If you remember that's exactly what Susan Terry asked us For instance, are people feeling a need to get for some kind of public reckoning of consequences or Can the entire board get behind the goal of clearing the air making sure everyone's hurt and taking action to improve Relationships and promo healing so everyone can move on My senses that were in that second category I told her our budget which I understood was to be $1,500 and asked if she knew anyone she would recommend She heard good things about Lisa beddinger who ran the restorative justice process in South Burlington. I Put the email with Lisa. She's too busy, but she has some suggestions for us and she shared her Circle keeper outline, which is the last page and that takes your sense of the kind of questions And discussions that they had in small circles Just these little this part of all people she recommended to McCormick and asked soon You know, she might be interested. She's not available but recommended Annie or Shaughnessy And I also got another recommendation from Lisa beddinger and then Susan is also for generally positive things that Susan Terry But didn't have personal experience with her So I just wanted to get us to a point where we can See, you know a something we want to move forward with be what kind of process might it be and then see can we perhaps Delegate that to a couple of us to go ahead and work on And I know that's a lot Is something Do we want to go forward with some sort of community discussion? I Would love to do some type of a Survey to use Just to gather data from where people are at do the majority of the community feel this is still in need and that They would support allocating money to this because I Just don't have a sense anymore People are Suggestions just kind of gauging the community And I think it needs to be because Some of the people last spring who would come to meetings and participate in the discussion I mean, I don't know everybody. I got the sense that not everybody had children in the school, but they had Some of a sense that something had happened and they weren't really clear so I would want to open it up I don't know the best way to Do that Do Yeah, yes, I was finished just a quick question about the cost You know, that's what we budgeted, but are we clear that that is what it's That that is sufficient to it to accomplish what it is that we We said up to that amount for like the initial Planning stages, I don't think that we said we would never spend more than that Because I guess we're I'm going I think that we should be clear With any communication asking for feedback from the community about what the expectations of cost Would be too and if that's how they want to see Their resources prioritized Well to get good responses like you serve food you provide child care We would be paying a facilitator Those those types of things Just say it's we discussed the idea of this not being just one single moment Because That may not be productive If you think it probably depends on How it's structured and what? What the expectation is around? How we're going to do it really what we hope to accomplish But I don't think a two-hour session is that's the Yeah, yeah I think That Is everybody comfortable if we I didn't I didn't know we were discussing it tonight But can we do the reports to the board and then come back to this before the end of the meeting? I Not a question when I was leaving about The work with Susan reminded me and I had a conversation with my neighbor not long ago Names Don Hirsch and the former board member here chair of the board for a while And he was involved in But he's also So he offered himself as just a sounding board not someone to Do the work, but given his dual experience Oh just The sounding board just you know to share some thoughts based on his experience On the border He wasn't trying to he wasn't interested or trying to There's A Yeah, so Personally what I would like is if we had a goal to get a survey out and have the results for the April meeting So if we When we were doing act 46 and we wanted to get the surveys out on that I think what we did and we could probably find it in the minutes as we went through the school Email and front porch forum. I almost feel like we were going to or people could request to do it a hard copy So maybe we could do the same thing for this survey We could try it I if we had a deadline of April 10 If we got it out by Friday and had a deadline of April 10, I guess people Let's say we get So to me that means are we not gonna do it I guess I feel like there's a very big chance that it's very important The question is I really spend money to help a small number of people feel better about If that would be I feel like an ongoing issue And I think people that don't have an issue with it would feel better And I don't I think the question would be do they think getting together as a community And discussing it is still needed in the best way to move forward So they don't come but does that mean that we I I mean to me we would have the data and we could discuss we could discuss it when we saw it Had it in our hand. I don't have a You know pre-conceived like all if it's not this much I wouldn't support it, but I just really have no clue Is it to people is it I Have no idea if there's anybody I So What are you hoping for out of this conversation for yourself for others Our community So Where are you doing this is just a circle keeper outline and this is This is just I thought a very helpful Be very firm feeling they had a big In which So then there were facilitators for each of the circle And in the circles they went through these different questions But maybe something like what we want it may not be but it seems we need to start to answer the questions that we've had before Why can I ask that why wasn't this put on the agenda? I Guess maybe I'd like to propose that we set a team of week Oh Is that what you're I I I Wait, you would have the whole board meet next week. Is that what you're suggesting? I Know I don't support additional meetings to I think having two people Deciding on next steps those two people should be deciding who's the facilitator that matches our budget What will the board be expected to do after this because we're not just going to do it and then not know What our next steps are and let the feedback lie? that was recommended by Susan Terry and And bring any any additional pieces that come out of it and that we come prepared to talk about what the focus will be what the expectation is and At the board at the regular schedule board meeting And so just to work very clear are we when we approach, you know, that's a photo that we have two recommendations You can carry What do I say so I say we Inclining for doing this or like I mean, I just want I need to know what my next step is before the board meeting Yeah I I I Why over like we think what how was the How many people came when we had a facilitator that central office Yeah So what I'm just curious why we're thinking of a weekend I Twice as many people And What's that I'd like to Have What is Kind of like we did with Susan because that I feel like that unveiled some series disconnects amongst the board and so I want I Feel like We're trying to do this as a community And I've been talking for a long time before we can do anything else we got to fix ourselves And I guess I don't think that this is Doing this is getting just necessary So that is that is my concern and also I just think that some of the things that surface Susan Terry was here concern me about What's getting what that? That evening You know, we're gonna be putting we're gonna be finally providing this to our community Has been official So I guess that's I also wouldn't want it to distract from the work that Amy's doing with Susan Clark I What's the way Hasn't been set yet I Will also At least school I think the school performance I'll tell you, I'll tell you there'll be something wrong with me. I'll be your most of them. I'm thinking of something that's going to really draw out the community. Sounds like before the worst of things, better frankly. So I would recommend that we try to say, let's set a date. Let's see if we can engage one of these people that won't be interested and offer that person a small retainer to reserve that date for us and nothing else so that we can plan over the course of this month and make final decisions for the next meeting. Otherwise, that won't see this happening. If we wait until the next meeting and decide to think about it more then, then I don't see how we can possibly schedule it to fit this timeline that I'm hearing. Two months, please. I mean, it seems like an impossibility. And now it's coming back. I said, please don't ask me to do that. For sure. But if we want to make it happen at all and we want to try to make it happen, it seems like an option in time, which sounds to me like the very end of April before testing begins and before... Very under April is April vacation. There's April vacation and then I'm on the cruise. I'm gone that week. Yeah, yeah. You're gone that week? I'm gone that week. The break is a little early this week. It's the 23rd, right? No, it's the 18th. It's the 16th through the 20th. Okay, Caroline's going to be gone then. I'm actually going to be gone the first week of May. So I think the third week of May, the testing is done. It's over with. There will be some conflicts, but there's always going to be some scheduled conflicts. So the question is, how do we get from here to there? Well, and Susan came to the board, so is it beneficial to go with Susan? We've done the initial, oh wait, we're not on the same page. Have her come back and start where we left off. I'm totally open. I think what she asked us and what we need to be clear about and I think these charts are incredibly useful. Yeah. And so I think we're in a conscious transformation. I don't know that anybody disagrees with that. There are five appropriate BND processes. Maybe the photocopies and the pages that look like that. I think we can make some of those decisions. Hopefully even tonight. Susan, is the one who came to the board meeting last time? Yeah. You're 32 on February 23rd or whatever. And then decide who we might want to go with. I mean, we've got some recommendations. Three different names. Two of them sound like they want to work together. But I think if we're going to have the kind of conversation you're talking about, Brian, we do need to meet next week and have that conversation then. Susan Clark sent... Susan Clark sent... I keep getting confused by Susan. Susan Clark sent this to you. Susan Clark sent... But Susan Thomas was the one who was here. Susan Terry sort of grayish hair. I like the thing that Susan Clark sent. Susan Terry. And Susan Clark is not interested in being a facilitator. Or she wasn't at the time we asked her. I don't think she should be. I think it makes total sense. I just wanted to make sure that if Allison was thinking, she did all this great. Let's use her, but it's clear that. No, I don't think so. No, I think this is great stuff, though. The different processes that they identified for cancer transformation, it's like the other communities that are like the same. The same dialogue in a group dialogue in communities, victim offenders, PCP, dialogue. What's PCP? So essentially, even just look at those things right now. Compassionate listening is two to two hundred people, usually fewer than 30. It varies between 30 minutes and three days, depending on how many people are involved. Open to whoever's gone. Often listeners are brought in here for the stories that are stressful and preferred. Where are we looking at? So the process distinctions, they list all the different processes and then kind of it gives you a sense of what's appropriate, you know. What page are you responding to? Page three, under appropriate D&D processes. Are we supposed to be looking at these? I think it's a. So those are those two groups. That's that, yeah. So if you go to contact transformation, I know, right? And I'm sorry, I just got all this this morning, so. And then if you look on this page with a smaller grid and a smaller type, if you have two of them, first one starts with 21st century Tony, and then the second one starts with relative dialogue. Build assistive and compassionate listening is one option. That's two to two hundred people, usually fewer than 30. Intergroup dialogue is single in multiple groups. And there's a regular weekly meeting for two to three hours, and we can probably get that out of our options. Right? Right. Public conversations, project dialogue is a small group for multiple two-hour sessions. Sustain dialogue is a small group for numerous two to three-hour sessions. So the victim offender mediation feels to me like the most appropriate, but also there is, there isn't really a very clear victim and offender, but it seems like that type of approach is more what, I mean, am I, am I, I feel like when people are, oh, under that same. I mean, I saw that I just, it's so it's, so it's under appropriate D&D processes under three. It's. And what makes it seem appropriate, I mean, all I see is the X is a conflict resolution box, small groups, multiple stores, like what makes it seem appropriate. I'm saying I feel that people who are most in favor of the mediation feel that they were somewhat victimized and that there was an offender, that the process was the offense and that that type of, so I'm saying, I don't know that, I don't know that we can because we don't have like a really clear, like is the board the offender? But I'm saying I, from. You know, there'd be different offenders. Very true. Yeah, very true. So I'm saying, like. I think you could put, a lot of people would have multiple roles. Yeah. Yeah. So, go ahead. What is the difference in all these communities? Yeah. Yeah, and they're different. And so, what, what, when I heard those and I've been debating what they're saying, I've heard you talk about the keyword back there, you don't know how to go to the S and third, that would even be large, the smaller groups that would be associated with it. So, I'm going to go into the mechanics here then. And if we, we're not going to know how many people we have until they show up, I guess we could ask for RSVP, but how do we then ensure that we have adequate numbers of facilitators to be, whatever the turnout might be. And if we are having, let's say we have six facilitators, what are we looking at in terms of the cost to do that? So, I mean, I think that's, I realize, there's a lot of things on here that's hardly working in the city, but people are still in, so I think the best person I know that comes in for sort of a practice is Joanne Anderson. I should not certify, she's going to go to the math there, is that she reflects, she has those protocols in her hip-objects, and people show up, have a life, have a certain mindset, and you're done with this, you're a facilitator, and you do that. I'm not sure if this is the right time to put it so much. I have a, I feel that we should really try to bring people to small groups. It's a lot harder to have your near-sun glasses on when you are looking at a specific person or two or three other people than it is when you're like, all right, I'm just going to talk to you, tell like it is. That's right, I'm going to feel bad about this. You know what I mean, it's like that effect where, so I think that if we want to keep this civil and have it be productive for people, things can be very small groups, and I would hope that we could structure it or facilitate it and help us, so that one person could kind of circulate, or I think it's going to be very hard to find a facilitator, and we can't just have like some people on ratings and so on. Do you think that's something that a facilitator can do, though, since you seem to have some expertise in this area? Well, and you saw Monday night, that it was a different type of very different issue. It's working very well, we're willing to do that and have other pieces. I still stand by what I said earlier, having an outside personality group, and you live it, so, as I said in ours, we see you as a member, shouldn't you? I live up there, right? Yeah. And say, hey, we just want to help you, because we want to make sure, we want to, yeah, if you said it in the positive attention you just said, Allison, our intention is to have a listening point, but in a way that's respectful and warm for everyone to be able to have their voices heard. But, yeah, we're going to be able to help you and make sure that you have to do that conversation. So, are you going to have that conversation? I actually just love the comment we got on Monday. I'm so afraid of somebody from the group to get up and summarize it, that, like, then the person felt like everybody, you know, felt like everybody, but anyway, now we're being bullied. So, what do we need to decide upon tonight to be involved with this? So, I mean, is the compassionate listening, that's the one that's done to it? I mean, too, is that something that we want to sort of propose as a general model to whatever was happening to them? I thought you read that that one was two, multiple two-hour sessions, is that, could I miss her? That one can be between 30 minutes and three days, depending on how many people are involved. Okay. I mean, it's not something that seems to be easy to do, but it's still a thing in that way, you know. Yeah, I mean, this person, so, you saw their issue, you say, hey, this is what we're going to look at. You thought, what's your experience telling them? Okay. There's no goal. Yeah, no goal, no goal. They're very good, yeah. They're worth the money they're paying. So what do we, what exactly are we going to do? Are we going to identify a date or not yet? I think we need to give loans to the abilities to identify a date within a range. And make a commitment? Well, we're from Fifth City, to the Albuquerque. That's why she made a date for a date range. That's the point we're going to make. There's probably, I'm assuming, are we in the week, maybe three times? First week in May, I'm actually totally done, but you won't want to do this without me. No, third week of May was when we were in the third week of May. And so then we can, yeah. So yeah, the third week is the 14th week of May. You're done on the 14th of May, so you've been in fact working for just, unfortunately fine, right? Right. Okay. So I guess the question is, when I talk to people, first of all, we have three different people who are recommended. How do we go about making, following the same? I couldn't tell you anything about who we're going about. No, that's true, but now I just got an email that's after it's four o'clock today, saying she recommends this team, this is Alisa Benanger, did the rules and the rebels, in South London, Annie O'Shaughnessy, and Denise Perry, and they're learning to do it for our budget. But there is also Susan Terry, who is here from St. John's Ferry. In the town, too, working with her? Yeah, someone named Denise Perry. So we get two. I mean, in this case, it's two, I think the question is like, do you want me to go ahead with Susan Terry? Do you want me to go ahead with this team? I'm happy to do either. These are this team work with people in Burlington? This is, no, the women who work with the people in Burlington recommended these two. Of course, we don't know anything about them. I will say that Susan Terry seemed like a very nice woman. I was surprised that she did not show her skills more at the meeting, and I was not that I thought perhaps she showed up. There was, there could have been the illusion that that being, and I thought it was an excellent time to have an interview when she was going through that, and she was happy to do that. I'm sorry. I had the same reaction with Ellen. It seems she didn't seem like she was taking control of the situation the way that I was surprised that she was doing that. All right, so. I'll come back to you. I'll go with these two, and the other people. Do you want to go with Susan Terry? I think, I think I still, this is just where I'm coming from. I can't get, I want to be able to have the opportunity to engage with the facilitators like we did Susan Terry in a session like this so we can hopefully be on the same page. Because like I said, we were, felt like we were moving in all different directions, or some different directions about what we were trying to accomplish with this. And I don't think that's productive. If we can't be clear how, or how we need to facilitators to coalesce what they're getting from us into a vision, that would be helpful. I got it. After what I saw the last time, I'm just, I don't want it to live on that at all. So. Will you put the, will you take me to Susan? I don't know. So. In June when we, when we met and we, we voted on the budget and we agreed to do it, we, were caution not to rush it, that doing it wrong would be disastrous. And, for a lot of, wide variety of reasons, very little happened between, I mean, officially at a board meeting between June and Susan Terry coming in February. Now at our March meeting, it's like, let's rush, let's set the date, let's get this, which I understand because we want it to happen. But going back to what Brian said about us coming together, I think the best way to do it is have the facilitator facilitate a meeting, be in the role of facilitating a discussion among the board. And in what we want our goals to be in the parameters to be around this. And I think that would be step number one. Then we would schedule and plan the community even if it meant June, even if it meant summer. I think that would be more valuable to reaching a wider range of the board goals and to having everybody a little more comfortable with what we're doing with the community. So that's... I can accept this. I think it would be really nice if we posted something publicly to tell people that we are actively engaged in planning something so that they know that this is not a forgotten issue. But I realize that agreeing on language could be another point of contention. I wish I don't want to call it. I just want people to know that they're not being... This isn't really an issue for me, but I feel like it's definitely a issue for some people and it's nice to say it's not a forgotten issue. And I thought we wanted to get that out last time as well after we met with Susan that we had made a comment about, like wanting to keep people knowing where we were at. So I agree with you. So I... I would love to have you facilitate this discussion. Boy, that might really help us with our board tensions as well. I think we'd have to be really paid for that, which I'm happy to put that question into priority for me. I also don't want to let this go beyond June, and I'm happy to really end here. If many times we need to see if we've got some things we've got to clear up a plate before we can actually do the nature this year, and I think this is a challenge. So I think there's... I don't think there should be any kind of debate in terms of what we're going to do today. Maybe we need to go down a little bit to make this a little bit more interesting. So you can simply... Yeah, yeah. We have to put a situation to the board. But then it's going to be... Right, right. You can get to that, I think. I don't have strong feelings other than Susan witnessed. You know what I mean? Like she witnessed the tension directly, so we wouldn't need... Did we do it? We wouldn't need to describe it. I think we could just create it. That's all recorded on Oracle. I don't know. I felt like in June, she was mentioned. She... Chris contacted a few other people. We still came up with her. I get the perspective of she didn't facilitate that, but that wasn't her role. And part of what the facilitators do is they care a lot about whose role is it. And not cross the line. She was basically almost interviewing for a job, seeing if she wanted to work with us. So I don't... But she specifically decided not to interview for that job. And I thought that was interesting. And actually, I thought we needed somebody who's a bit more proactive. Although, as you may have gathered familiarly for a short time, that is kind of... I tend to do that for as long as I should, so maybe that's what I'm just like. But... So before you would get into a session like that, all the years, they might talk to all of you. They're not gonna send a little... So they can't do that at this meeting, though. Like with the public forum. They can't talk to everybody additionally. They can't do that. They would talk to us. Oh, right, right, right. But I'm saying like... Right, with the community forum, they couldn't talk to everybody at this meeting. No, no, no. But that's a different piece. So what you're talking about for you as a board and expecting her to step up and try to resolve something at a board meeting? I've been mediator, so I say, I don't start that way. I start by talking... I'm gonna talk to each person individually and get away of the lands that I'm insuring in and figure what's the best way for me to do that. Because you're not gonna start with a little bit. Every time that I've been in mediation, either by the then school district or another place, it's been, let's start talking to everyone individually and question who's around and who's around. Or it's a pretty quick, hey, we're all here, maybe I'll let you guys know who's right and who's not. And the mediator goes back and forth and starts to feel like, where is the middle ground that you're on? You are right. And you're the best. You're the best. You're the best. I mean, it just... The number of times her name came up from between June and February, I don't wanna start all over. No, it was a Middlesex community member who came in June who was telling us how we had to do it. He was being very direct, I don't know who it was. He initially said, Susan Terry's name, he said she's the best, she's who you want. And then going through a different process, we still ended up with her. So, I feel comfortable. Yeah, it's a good thing. We'll see if she's there all the time. Okay, so we'll see if there's a two-part question. Is she available to facilitate us for the next board meeting? And what would that cost? Do we have money for that? Are we willing to commit money for that? Up to what? I don't think that, I don't know anything about it. I think we should. Do you think we can count? I wouldn't go, I would keep it in the 1500 budget. And then if we need to add on to what we already voted for, to have the next one do that. That, I would feel better about that than stating a number for facilitating the board. Okay, I'm just wondering when I call her and say, can you come facilitate the board? She's going to tell me the number. So, up to. Do you have to know? Or, up to that. I think we should be there on with the women. It's something that's really nice that the association could worry about money issues. Where does she live now? Say that. Thank you. Danville. Danville. She works in Montreal. She works in New York, I would say. Okay. I don't think so. Oh, okay. Yeah, I think she works there as a fund. I mean, okay. She has a fund up in downtown. Okay. So, she has a 45 minute drive each way, plus the, she's committed to some sort of time on that. So, this way of potentially, you can't really look at it. We can't be good to her. I mean, it would be like a trial or something. So, we're looking at that 500 bucks, I mean? Okay. So, the problem is that I'm back to say it, I think. Okay, so, Adelaide? And us too, because I need to make a commitment to her and ask her to come on and go to her as well. Yeah. I mean, she'd have to come anyway to plan for May, and the board piece just helps us better plan it. So, and then if she's not available April 12th, do we change our meeting date or do we go the other week? See if the other people are, my recommendation would be, see if the other people are available, if they are, then we give it to them. If they're not, then we look at a different meeting date. And we can do scheduling right now. Yep. Okay. And then do we, so I guess the part that I'm still a little confused is just like, some of us are committed to doing this. Not, I'm not hearing that from you at this point. Do you think the May community forum, the compassionate listening, affects the title we want to do, affects the title we want to do? Yeah, I mean, I guess I would feel much better that I would like to have more information to base that level of commitment. Yeah, I think that more accurately represents where I'm at, because it really depends on, can we agree on why we're there and what the parameters are. And I think that will come from our next meeting. So back to Wilkins question, the budget for the new creation, for the board meeting. I feel comfortable setting up to 500 and using the negotiate as we feel necessary. Do you know what the budget is? I don't know if everyone's going to hear that. And I don't think we have to vote on that. I just want to know what they work, especially in our low budget stuff. You know, I want to super clear that what I'm doing, yeah. Okay, so I am going to call Susan Terry, ask if she can facilitate a discussion of the board around our goals for a possible, even probable meeting in the third, early part of the third week of May, and that we are tentatively looking at something in the concept transformation, the pre-sures in concept transformation, and actively sort of along the lines of compassionate listening that we would really help. I appreciate her helping me just figure that out. Does that sound right? Yeah. And that will be the only agenda for April 12th. Is that what the suggestion was? Bill? I think that's good. Okay. And everything else happens. I think that's going to happen at one of the episodes. I just want to put something out there and speaking truth. You know, I think it's just an observation that I'm having at this moment. And that is just something we've been talking about for over a year now with different feelings about it over the first several months. And then we kind of galvanized last June to want to do this. And it didn't happen. And it took months to get someone here. And that's just, that was okay. And so now we're suddenly feeling urgency. And I guess so, I can't help, but I don't know what it is, but that's just something that I'm observing. All of a sudden now it's become a priority while it's just kept on at other times being kicked down really. I don't know if it's because what are you suddenly taking it on? Is it the Chris's camp? I don't know what the reasoning is behind it, but I just, I want to make that observation. I appreciate that. And I wanted to say that for me, this is going to be incredibly urgent. I don't know that we can move forward in a happy way in terms of U.S. But it didn't last year. There was not a majority of the board here if I did that last year. And so, but we voted. We all voted in June. It was 5-0. Okay, well, I would certainly, I mean, I think sometimes it takes someone to, yeah, and I feel like we're perhaps already, for me, the feeling is different. I'm sure, you know, it's all of us this year, but I feel like that's a little more, I think they're talkable from anywhere, but they didn't feel talkable last year. What do you mean? Like I think had I done this work last year, I don't know that we would have had this conversation. I think we should talk about this. Probably. I think we should write this question down. We should write that down or we can refer to the next. Thank you for that. We had good topics this morning. I know you're exactly right about that, but what are the questions you still have about this, and just thinking about how to help it? I just want to call attention to the fact that a meeting wasn't posted on the platform. Didn't I put it on there at first? The agenda is usually posted. Remember we talked about the practices we post the agenda at some commentary and just kind of let it stand as it is. At least everyone seemed in the past to be comfortable or lean on. So. No, you're right. That was important. I'm sorry. That's right. And you know, I did last year, when I was assistant director at the packet, I would just cut and paste it like that second and put it on the platform. So it was just a big pause. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.