 I'm not vegan, I'm not gonna be vegan either, but I appreciate what you've done. Why not? Why not? Why do you seem so adamant if I had an animal here, a lamb and I gave you a knife and I said slush their head off and I'll make you a kebab. Then that is the worst karma you could possibly generate. I've seen you on YouTube. Have you mate? How are you? Are you trying to convince today? What's the game mate? I was just giving out some vegan food and then it's all gone now. I had a whole table full of stuff. Gave it all out for Christmas, so yeah. Yeah, I've seen a couple of your things. Have you? Yeah, I'm not vegan. I'm not gonna be vegan either, but I appreciate what you've done. Why not? Why not? Why do you seem so adamant? I can't give up meat, but honestly I'm not exactly keen on my greens and that either. How many animals do you think are tortured and killed? We'll be tortured and killed. How old are you? 28. 28? So that's 28 years eating meat every single day. But dairy, there's definitely gonna be dairy and eggs. Oh of course. And all those animals are tortured and killed as well. So now you're gonna live, let's just say you lived 80. That's a lot of animals tortured and killed. Could be 100, 200 a year. Easily, granted, yeah. Yeah, so that's a lot of suffering and death for your pleasure. And it's only a small amount of bread. When you have a burger right, how long does that pleasure last for? The time of the meal. If you had a vegan burger, it feels the same in the stomach, doesn't it? It fills you up. Of course, yeah. Food is food. Yeah. Again, flavour and as I said, I'm not good on greens. I understand they're all alternatives. I know you've got like, you know, tofu, nuts and so on. Beyond burgers and vegan burgers and that. Vegan options and stuff. Susset rolls. More widely available and such. And to be honest, I'm a bit silly in terms of, I won't even try them. Just because, well, I'm a meat eater. I look at something vegan and I'll go, not for me. So it's a bit irrational, eh? Yeah, granted. It's kind of like, it's not a spy. Because a vegan's never been, has a vegan ever attacked you? No, there's no spy behind it. It's just like, you're a meat eater. Who taught you that? Because you could go to like, where that seed was planted. I don't think it was a case if it was tall. It's not. My entire life, my family, everyone. What about the men in your family? Are they meat eatings type of bloat? I don't think I know of even. I know one, sorry, someone at work, nobody talked to him. But outside of that one person, everyone I know, everyone I've been raised with, will you all eat meat? So that was the same. Going back to the school days, you know, finished school, which you don't. Oh, let's go get some chicken and chips. See things like that. It's just always been part and parcel of life for me. Same here. I eat meat up until I was 26, three times a day sometimes. I also hated when people were cruel to animals. Like if I'd seen someone back in the days, if I'd literally seen someone harming animal, I would smash their head right in. I'm the same. That was me. Yep, 100%. Kick a dog. I hated hunting. I'm going to kick you four times harder. Yeah, like innocent animals being, but I was in the animals, but if I'd seen it, you know what I mean? You're getting contradiction. Yeah, I hate being a hypocrite, man. Can I ask you, what came about you to then turn me? What made you change? It's first started waiting to go to court. I had a gun charge. So I was on house arrest for 18 months. They don't let you leave the house. I got heaps fat, eating meat, and then I was looking for a diet to lose weight, come across this juice fasting dude, and he was talking about fruits and vegetable juices. So I started doing that, lost a bunch of weight, become clear. And then he was talking about karma. And he was like, when you eat the suffering body of an animal, you're taking on everything that animal went through, the fear before they died. And I was like, you know, I knew about karma because in the world I was from. It happened all the time. Bad things happen to bad people, you know. I'm a heavy believer. Yeah, karma. So I was like, that makes sense. And I didn't go vegan. I still was eating, I was eating more plants and I was like, eating a bit more chicken. Went to prison, eating chicken in prison, but I was eating more plant foods, you know. Started getting sober, got out. And then I had this inconsistency. I was telling my mum when I got out of jail, she was like, you should quit smoking mum. It's real bad for you, you know. I'm now sober. She's like, look to me like you're crazy. You've just been in prison. You've been doing drugs your whole life. Who are you to tell me? But she said there's a lot of vices people have. They just don't change. And when she said that, I reflected on my own hypocrisy. I hate being a hypocrite. And I was like, I always known it's wrong to harm animals, save the dogs, save the whales. You know, if someone, seeing someone hunting, I'd hate it. But I had a piece of a cow on my plate. Yeah. And it was then that moment I just had this realisation where I was like, I'm a hypocrite. I hate it. I'm going vegan tomorrow. And I went vegan the next day. Because I was in this thing of changing my life. Going, I got out of jail. I was getting sober. Quit the drugs. Turned on a page. Turned on a page. And I was like, what am I going to be? Am I going to be this? Because I've got a conscience. And I hate it. It eats me up inside. Yeah. I'm the same. No one's going to come back on you about you. That's your conscience. Of course. You know, that guilt will eat you up inside. If you don't have that, that's fine. I did. I did. So now, even if no one was watching, I eat vegan. I do the vegan thing. Yeah, of course. Because it's me that I know. Dedicated. Yeah. If I had an animal here, a lamb, say a little lamb, a little cute little lamb. I gave you a knife and I said, slash their head off. And I'll make you a kebab. I couldn't. But then, and obviously I know, it carries no weight because I live in a city. If I lived in the wilderness, if I needed to eat, and I'm still with there, I'm having that fear. If you had to kill me, you would probably in a certain situation. Well, let's just say I was coming to attack you, burn your house down and kill your family. Oh yeah, then obviously, I wouldn't eat you. Yeah, but you would shoot me. But what I'm saying is in extreme circumstances, you would do things that aren't the circumstance that you need to do it. So right now, like you can go get a kebab. You're essentially taking one step removed. You're paying someone to down the line, murder this animal, chop them up into pieces. So you don't have the knife in your hand, but you have metaphorically the knife in your hand. You're an influence to the action. Yeah. And over the course of your life, you're eating like kilograms and kilograms of dead bodies. Yeah. Causing all of this suffering down the line. And it's as simple as making this lifestyle change that ends up immediately. I'm gonna flip it a bit. But coming vegan has become somewhat of a trend, not necessarily a trend, just more people a bit more conscious these days. Yeah. Someone so full information is more spreadable. Yeah. With such large numbers now of people that will have word me, I may be wrong, I may be right, is there not deforestation which is occurring to then supplement that which in turn is having a negative impact on the environment. Being vegan doesn't mean you have some zero impact. You can't live with zero impact. No one can. No. But like I will say this, the plant foods and monocropping and things, what do you think these are eating? The chickens and the sheds. What are the chickens and the sheds eating? A lot of seed and scrap sometimes. Well they're eating soya. The animals over here, the chickens over here, they're eating soya from the Amazon. Getting imported over. You're talking about nearly 60 billion chickens being slaughtered every year. They're being fed cultivated crops and the cows. The cow, have you ever driven past the dairy farm and seen all those big stacks of hay? They're getting harvested and grown. Of course, yeah. They need a lot of land, cows too. In England, where's the forest? Do you think this is natural English land? No, this has all been deforested. For animal agriculture. Yeah, I understand that. So much more deforestation has to happen and much more environmental damage and much more resources, water, food to have a small morsel of flesh. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because the cow is like you've got to feed them, give them all this water land and you get a little bit of flesh after six months, 18 months. So you're generating all of these resources that could be used all over the world. But people want to eat meat, so they're going to pour all these resources into the cows to get a little bit of dairy out of them, some eggs out of the chicken. Yeah. It's an incredibly insane use of resources. I do completely agree. You know, the term talk-chop with animals couldn't agree more about it because I've seen, you know, videos this time, the other of... You can see animals are literally fearful of their living condition. There was only one I watched the other day. It was a bloody pig. It literally rolled over backwards, looked like it was going to break its neck just because it wanted to get out but barely big enough to fit its body in. Yeah. So I completely agree and who knows, in five years' time, perhaps a bit of research if I could find alternatives which suit me, perhaps I'll make a change. Yeah. Will it happen in the next year? That's a definite not. You don't know what happens in a year. I could have a life-changing moment, which... Maybe you see something. Maybe something happens to you. Maybe you realize maybe you think, like, mate, I've been self-absorbed and sometimes a big, like, what happened to me? Like, some bad things happened to me, man. You know what I mean? And I know what it's like to be a victim. I know what it's like to be, you know, terrified. You know what I mean? I appreciate that, yeah. So, like, and then I thought, sometimes I deserved what come my way. I wasn't that good either. These animals done nothing to no one, you know what I mean? So we're doing suffering and torture and killing onto these innocent beings who can't defend themselves as an entire race. We are doing that to them. If you believe in anything other than, like, I get a bit superstitious, I believe in karma and things like this, then that is the worst thing that could possibly generate. Because these beings, literally, like, if you do something to a child, you're going to know about it like if someone finds out about it, right? You do something to a human that can go talk about it, they can protest for themselves, go to the cops. You do something to these animals, nothing's going to happen to you. Literally, you're only relying on your conscience to avoid that. It's legal. You can go to the shop right now by a tortured chicken. You know what I mean? So it's only your conscience that's stopping you. You're not even going to go to jail. You could probably have a cut their head off and cops wouldn't. I don't think they would say anything. That was definitely recently in the UK, octopus and I think crabs. Sentient beings. They were already sentient before they recognised this. I think that's amazing. Yeah. Because again, especially these things are usually cooked to life. Yeah, I don't want them to be cooked to life. But the pigs are all gassed in gas chambers of CO2 and they struggle for 30 seconds and violently thrash in these dungeons full of CO2. People will call that humane. They say it's the most in the UK most of the pigs are stunned in gas chambers. The thing is, it's a pretty incredible thing that you have your conscience to navigate the world. Yeah. And you can choose to ignore it. You can choose to ignore it and you can go on like I used to do. I used to leave a trail of a wake of destruction behind me. I didn't care about people. I only cared about my own pleasure seeking. Yeah. Like it's all on you. Like I can't follow you around and go, oh man, you said you were going to go vegan. What are you doing, bro? No one's going to hold your accountable if you do that. You know what I mean? Yeah. You're your own critic at the end of the day. Yeah, you've given me a lot to think about. It's empowering as well, bro, because you're going against most people, especially men. Oh, definitely. And you can say, I've got principles. I don't want to do that to that little bird. Would I cut this lamb's head off right here? No, I wouldn't. Why would I do the cowards way of paying someone else? You could have this conversation with you. I have this conversation with myself all the time. Yeah. I'm like, I don't want to do it anymore. I'm going to these animals. Wait a second. I'm paying for it to happen. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So it would be happening without people without myself now. Yeah, yeah. All these people, all these people that say they're against animal cruelty, they're all funding it. They're all massive hypocrites. I understand that. It's just like a few people will go, I don't want to be a hypocrite and they change. You know what I mean? Yeah. They live consistently with their values. You know what I mean? Not everyone, but some people, you stopped, you know, up some stage. I've seen. Yeah. Yeah, as I said, you've given me a lot of food for full. Yeah. Let me give you a little bit of just, you know, some documentaries to watch anyway. I tell you, I'll change my no to possibility. You never know, mate. You never know. No worries. It was nice for the chat. And even if you don't ever go vegan, it's good to have your support anyway, like in support of what we do. Of course. You know what I mean? You know, you might not have the discipline to go vegan, but at least you're in support of what we're doing. Definitely 100%. Yeah. Build bridges like that, man. And like, because maybe one day there's a law that passes and you're like, well, you know what? I'm going to vote to bring animal rights in or something. And then, you know, you can at least support the cause without, you know. Because again, another contradiction, but yeah, I love my mate and it feels horrible for you two here. But if there was a law, yeah, as I said, food for fault. No worries, brother. Good chat to you, mate. What's your name again? Darren. Darren. Good to meet you, Darren. Take care. No worries, mate. All right. So that was handing out a bunch of food out in front of Tesco for Christmas. I don't know what we're going to call it, but something like Tesco Christmas food takeover giveaway thingy. But like, had some really good conversations with people. They were actually quite shocked that I was just giving food away without there being no strings attached except for Christmas. So, I think I'll do this again. I think it was really successful. People want to come up and talk. You have, you know, conversations with people about animals, animal rights. You give them a little guide, give them something to think about, show them a bit of footage and yeah, I think it's really successful and I want to do more of it. Let's go. Let's go. Where we going next? Sainsbury's? Where we going? Morrison's? Let's do it.