 Welcome to our New Frontiers Digital, our series of 2020 as part of the EHF offering to all of you. This is something new that we wanted to try to make it work for you and the fellows to connect with the rest of the world and get the fellows to share their experience as fellows and their knowledge. I'm super excited for today's session because I got to know Emily and Eric before even EHF had applications and before I was part of EHF so it's really exciting to see how far we both have come. So I'm looking forward for today's session and on today a few things. They will do their presentation and then after that we'll have time for questions and answers. Feel free to post any questions you have in the chat window and then by the end of the session if those questions haven't been answered as part of the session, we will ask them. There will be time for that. Thank you so much for your time and if you are not speaking and as I said we will be recording the session, we are recording at the moment and we look forward to hearing more and learning more from you, Emily and Eric. If you have any technical support, you can get in touch with Michelle, Michelle Cole that is over there, co-host and or me on the chat. And if you have a question, post them in the everyone chat, don't post it on private as it's so it's easier for all of us to read them. And over to you, Emily and Eric. Great. Thanks, Paula. And, yeah, Tena Coda Catoa, good morning everybody. And it's really nice to see some, yeah, some very familiar faces on the screen. And so let me just start this, just to share the screen here and we have some slides to show you. Yeah, again, so I'm Emily and Pat Dahlstrom and Eric Dahlstrom. So this session is really about our experience starting a company in New Zealand, so it's all based on our lessons learned. We're not really experts, so just wanted to point that out. So we'll go through like our presentation, but just feel free to put your questions on the chat as well. And now we'll try to answer all of those questions after. So before we kind of let go to the outline of what we're going to be presenting, I just wanted to give you a little bit more of a background about ourselves, just in context to what we'll be talking about. There's three of us. And as Paula said, we come from, we are from California, we were from the first batch that came over in 2017. There's, yeah, we're from Northern California. I'm also from the Philippines. And our backgrounds are mainly on space, aerospace, astronomy, program development, education, and then software development as well. And as you can see, we've been around the block several times, you know, we're older. Kind of like the affiliations that we've had over over the years. And we basically have worked on either public or private side of the space industry, while we were in the US and also in Europe. And so, for us, we came to, you know, to EHF with really several assumptions. And one was that the exponential technologies today is really democratizing the space industry. So that's kind of like one major thing. The other thing is that because of that, the space economy or the global space economy is going to reach about a trillion dollars in about, you know, in about 20 years. And so that's a really great opportunity. But the challenge here is that it's not redistributed. Most of the space industry today is only being done by, you know, nine countries in the world. 75% of the global economy is. And so with that as a problem, we wanted to make sure that we, you know, we can actually even that out, you know, in the future. And the way to do that is to basically create these ecosystems around the world in developing and emerging countries. So that's our moonshot, no pun intended. But that's sort of like our, what we kind of kept, sort of came into the Edmund Hillary Fellowship with. Over the past two and a half years, we've really focused on how do you actually, you know, catalyze that industry and the focus on education, entrepreneurship and collaboration, of which, firstly, we try to educate people on the opportunity and the technologies that are available today anywhere. And then on the entrepreneurship side, we try to help catalyze projects and, and startups here in New Zealand. And for the past two years, we run like two national space challenges, aerospace challenges here to do that. And on the third side, we also tried to, because of leveraging prizes, we've also tried to engage the different kind of like economic development organizations and incubators and, and other professionals kind of like all over the country. And the company we started is called Space Base. Yeah. So for the session today, as I mentioned, this is going to be all about like our own journey during this particular two and a half years. And so it's more of a practical session of what do you do actually when you start from scratch as a, as a company or as an organization. And, and again, the disclaimer is that this session is based on our experience. And we recommend that you definitely seek out the, you know, experts in creating businesses and legal advice, which we're talking about all of those resources in this session. So, yeah, to begin with, yeah, know your tribe. So we were very fortunate as, again, as Paula said, we started our fellowship in October of 2017, but, but actually we became nomadic about the beginning of that year. And we did some trial kind of like periods in New Zealand. We were here for about, you know, two months in, in Auckland, two months in Wellington, just to try to understand New Zealand. And so basically for us, because we are starting a new industry, we tried to figure out where in New Zealand are the pockets of industries that could resonate well with like being part of a space economy. And so basically we talked to government, we talked to all of the already existing kind of outreach types of state space companies in New Zealand, which kind of like led to how we also created the New Zealand space directory. So on our website, we basically gathered together like where we're in the country are all of these potential collaborators and partners. And so that sort of like gave birth to the New Zealand space directory, which was then used last year by MB to create the sort of the industry summary for space in New Zealand. After kind of like understanding what you where where our market is and where customers is and where the needs are, we needed to understand, you know, what kind of entity do we need to actually start. Most likely for most of you, you're already either you've already established what you want to want to create and you it's a company, basically, but for us because as you can see we're very mission driven and we have this like long term vision that we wanted to create. We were really like a social enterprise. We were kind of like been waffling over whether we were a for profit or a nonprofit. And so during this, this time of like really exploring. We had essentially talked to organizations that are very similar to to us in terms of at least in mindset. So we talked to Inspiral, we talked to Lumio, we talked to EHF because EHF was also trying to create an ecosystem on a different scale but we just like us we were trying to create an ecosystem. So we basically also we also managed to talk to Belgali, which is a law firm here in New Zealand and Pro Bono, they basically help us try to understand what is the best kind of like structure for us to go with. So eventually we created an LLC. And so for you if you're starting from scratch and you're and you want to start a company actually the best place to really go is business.gov.nz Because this website really kind of like outlines step by step. Anything that you need to do for planning for getting started and like all of the processes that you need to do to kind of like to start a company. Yeah, one theme here is that New Zealand is one of the easiest places in the world to start a business. And so it's also it's ranked number one in the World Bank, as far as the ease of doing business. And just to kind of like as a summary, when we when we did register, it took us basically from the time that we went online, it was like five minutes to get to to really register your information and then in two days we got the certificate, the certificate, which is a really fast process compared to like other potential countries that are doing this. So setting up a company. So this is the practical things for one. The first thing that you need to do is to check if the brand or the company name that you want to establish is not already out there. So again, on business.gov.nz, there is a one check checker that will basically check the name, the trademark, you know, web domains or social media to see whether your brand is already out there. And you can reserve your, your name, essentially, for 10 bucks. And that's going to be available to you for 20 days. And just to make sure that within those 20 days you incorporate. But you can also continually basically reserve it for another 10 bucks if you're not kind of like ready to do the incorporation yet. So to incorporate, you go basically to the company's registry and this website here. And again, by the way, we will be sharing all of these slides to you and on the slides I have been placing all of the the website links. So that you can just like easily find them. So the company's registrar essentially is where you would register your company and the things that you need to to make sure before you kind of even just like sit down and do this is that you have a name that's already kind of reserved. As you did it in the first step. The other is that you need a physical address in New Zealand. You need at least one director that is actually a resident or is residing in New Zealand. There are many definitions for that. We won't go into that and the definitions are already in the registry. You need at least one shareholder a shareholder can be an individual a New Zealand company or an overseas legal company. As a shareholder to those and then the the the fee is I think right now about 150 bucks so you can re check that but New Zealand New Zealand dollars. So those are the main main sort of like requirements that you're going to be meeting to start. Yeah. So these are these are the requirements. The other thing to note as well is that you do not need a constitution right away. You you will potentially need to upload that on the company registry but it also means that if you if you if you register without the constitution you're essentially automatically adhering to the New Zealand company act of 1993 which has all of its provisions for its shareholders and directors and all that. And so if you want a different different way of governing yourselves and doing your bylaws then you would have to create your own your own constitution. So just to note for us as well as I mentioned we are social enterprise so it was a little more difficult at least phrase was not straightforward. We did go and engage law firms to actually help us draft that constitution and eventually we based our constitution from Inspiral and Inspiral is this is a very unique company so one share one vote no dividends and so that I guess for for most people would be very important to understand where we were coming from because our constitution is really a charitable one and that will affect kind of like even our funding as we as we talk about funding kind of like later on. The other thing to note as well as once you've registered again you would want to to register your trademark as well at some point so your trademark and your logo and you can do that at the New Zealand Intellectual Property Office as well. So the other thing is to once you're you're fully registered the next thing to make sure is that you're going to be tax compliant for for the company. And so basically you do that by applying for an IRD number and you do that in the Inland Revenue Ministry and that's kind of like the website and for this all you need is to apply for your IRD really is is again your your your your number your your company registered number and in a physical address. Also if if you think that you're going to be earning over 60k annually at the get go when you register you need to also register for for for a GST ID and and then you can then pay your GST every like three months or six months or or a year. Now the tax year in New Zealand is from April to March. It's a little at least for us Americans it's a little different because for for us it's you know start from January to December so there is a there's not a mismatch there so every every time that I do taxes as well it's a little bit more complex than than normal. The other thing to note is for us again from the get go we we hired a contents right away so because it makes it easier for you to be filing your your taxes and your your company filings like every year. We've but there's there's many kind of like companies in New Zealand that can do this. I know that I think UI is is is one that the end of Hillary fellowship has a partnership or collaboration with we've also used PWC and then currently we're using fairground. One other thing about accounting as well is that to make sure that that you're always up to date. Of course you'll probably get an accounting platform. So one thing is that zero is is the main accounting platform here in New Zealand. We started out with QuickBooks and I'm just pointing this out because most if you actually do hire accountants in New Zealand. They're normally using zero and so if you're using QuickBooks they would when when they do your annual filings they would they would actually have to transfer your QuickBooks data into zero so might as well and they'll charge you higher. So might as well from the get go use zero. At least this is from our experience. Let's see. So it's who you. Oh yeah and before actually before before I go there in terms of the bank accounts it's actually very easy to to start a bank account here. Once you've already set up all of all of your IRD numbers and and being registered you can you can set up bank accounts online. Now as an individual before we actually came to New Zealand we were able to set up our individual bank accounts even before we got here. So banks like BNZ and ANZ ANZ can allow you to start that process and even you know do the bank transfers and then you claim your your account once you set foot in New Zealand and you show that. You are actually going to be a resident kind of like here by also showing like a like a physical address when when you're here. Right. So the next section here is really more on the soft side of of of starting a business and for us I think the most important thing here is like it's who you really know. That will make you successful. So networking is is for me even is like it's really on top there for having a like a successful organization. So for us the Edmund Hillary Fellowship basically made us understand kind of the whole ecosystem in New Zealand better and then also open up so many doors for us when we first started. There are many hyper connectors within EHF and within either the the main organization and management itself but but at the same time also especially the Kiwi Fellows who are already on the ground when when when you arrive. There are kind of like a window to everybody else within New Zealand. It's not a joke that people say that it's you know there's only two degrees of separation between everybody in New Zealand so definitely for one. I think I would use our LinkedIn connections really well in terms of like finding the kind of like the right people that we need to talk to. The other thing that is really important is that so in New Zealand there's there's there's official regions within New Zealand that actually kind of like work and collaborate together but at the same time are also entities within themselves. And so the economic development organizations. I think there's about 14 of them and with different regions. Those are there are actually our first go to for trying to understand kind of like the business landscape within the regions in New Zealand. So for us because we are we are catalyzing kind of like an industry within a nation we wanted to kind of be involved and collaborate with all of the regions but most likely when when you start and you're starting a company you probably start from where you want to base yourself in like either the city that you want to base yourself in. And so the best the first people that you should really talk to are the EDAs so the economic development agencies. So for us we're like right now we're in Christchurch our partnership with Christchurch and said we probably would not be here without them because they've been really kind of like our partners with the projects and initiatives that we've been working on for the past kind of like two years. And at the same time within those organizations they also have industry experts basically they have account managers for the big industries that are within their domain. So which is why it's it's really good to to know people there because depending on what industry you're in you're in energy or your health they would have those particular experts within the organization. And most of what we're telling you here is they would have a full time person to deal with. Yeah. The other other kind of like NPCs are like city councils as well. So when you are within a city it would be good to talk to people there because also the local governments know what the needs are and what they're kind of like their capabilities. The other thing as well is that that we've that at least we've found is that depending on your industry as well there's always an association connected to a specific industry. So so just one example is like if you're in Agri Tech there's Agri Tech and Zed. If you're in an engineer there's engineer and Zed. There's so there's like X and Zed. So if you if you go Google stuff there's always those kinds of organizations that depending on yeah your background or your experience it would be good to connect with those people because it would be a window to the industry that you want to be playing in. Social media connections as well so there's a lot of organizations here that have social media presence like I'm blanking with some of the, and just for us on the space side we started a meetup in Wellington and then subsequently there are meetups on space like in Christchurch there's also one in Auckland and but then there are also organizations that have a presence like online and on Facebook so you just need to find those and be part of them. And one last thing if you are a social enterprise just like us I do definitely recommend talking to the Akinah Foundation. So Akinah is the I think the for me I think it's the one-stop shop for really understanding how social enterprises work here in New Zealand. They do advice and they also do workshops as well for social enterprises specifically kind of like here in New Zealand. So yeah this is just for finding the economic development agencies this is the kind of like the website that lists them. Okay so we all know this phrase that when in Rome do as the Romans do. So I'm just basically saying here that we came to New Zealand we were visitors and we're foreigners and we're so happy that we've been integrated here for the past two and a half years and we've been welcomed with open arms and for us I feel like it's my obligation to understand what New Zealand culture and way of doing and business is all about because basically it doesn't matter how great you are outside or if you're a rock star or that you've been very successful outside but here you know you're coming into a new country you need to understand sort of like how it is that it is that it's done here and so I think that's I think one of the things to know so some of the kind of our lessons learned during the time that we've been here I think culturally for one I think you know the business here is based on relationships. I think that's one thing that we really trust based. Yeah it's definitely trust based you know it sometimes there's a joke that you need to have like three coffee or tea meetings before you actually you know establish that rapport and trust with the people that you kind of like want to really work with and once you kind of like establish that trust and that opens up kind of like a lot of things for you because then their networks are open up to you as well and so yeah I know that in this time you know it's very hard to do a face-to-face meeting but you know the video conferences like this definitely helps a lot with trying to understand and establish kind of like relationships relationships. The other thing as well is that coming from you know coming from Silicon Valley we've been so used to you know the kind of sort of like entrepreneurship can do attitude, risk taking well I'm really happy to say that that's kind of like the whole ethos of New Zealand. That's the can do attitude here is even much stronger I think than we're it's this notion that you know the people would think well that's really possible but we'll do it anyway so because there is this kind of like this positive attitude of trying to do something new and it permeates into government also that is surprising from the US perspective. Yeah and I think one thing to note is because I think of New Zealand's isolation this notion of being able to kind of do things by you know by themselves it's really more ingenuity more so than innovation and so that's very very strong here. Some other things is that well for one sustainability and stewardship is the top of the line here so you know and for us that's such a refreshing thing to be working in an environment where environment is first and sustainability is first compared to again other places that we have been to or places that are that kind of like are happening today. Let's see so in terms of being an EHF fellow I actually thought as well that because we came in sort of like you know through the eye of a needle because there is a there really is a lot of kind of like checks and validation for you it feels like you've been sort of like you've been validated coming in or sorry yeah the word is vetted and so when we do get introduced everywhere kind of like in New Zealand and you talk about yourself as being an EHF fellow there's I think that contributes a lot to being welcomed because you have been vetted already and people there's a certain amount of trust that comes with the name. Let's see is there anything else that I Oh yeah so one challenge or maybe there's just one two things that we've also learned is that that New Zealanders are very humble so it's kind of like it's very hard to find who the specialists are because they don't really they don't promote themselves. They don't promote themselves again very different from where we come from so it's kind of like it's a little harder to find that some people do amazing things and it takes forever to find out that you know for them to talk about themselves. So we've taken to the asking somebody about their friend because they'll promote their friends but they won't promote themselves. Yeah and so I think something that comes in line with that which is sort of like a challenge as well is I think there is a bias though for New Zealand made and New Zealand created because it is a very self create yeah that's something that you probably experienced and takes kind of a little bit to kind of Yeah so it can be a problem if you're coming in bringing something from the outside it really needs to have a local connection. So on the funding side as I mentioned before because we are our constitution is a charitable one we actually don't go and look for investors but we were fortunate enough that for the first two years we were self sustaining and so we were self funded plus the other thing is that the third person in our company is also an angel investor and so we were lucky to have that kind of like sources of resources to start. However I'm just going to put out some of the ones that we've at least come across with in terms of funding. So the economy development agencies in New Zealand also does have some some sources of resources so you should definitely look at this. Some of the industries that they definitely focus on are like agriculture and health and energy. Callahan Innovation has grants as well especially if you're a tech company or if you are in the stage where you're doing R&D they have a starter grant that is about like 5k then they have other like project and research grants as well like for deep tech and especially those that are focusing on really new and highly risky type of ventures. And they also have partnerships for doing R&D in their labs, things like that. So in terms of sources of funding there are angel investors in New Zealand and so every single major kind of like major city. So as I outlined here angel HQ is Auckland, sorry Angel HQ is Wellington, Ice Angels, Auckland, Cadbury Angels here in Christchurch and so forth. The one thing that we have actually done at the Thailand of last year is we did a crowdfunding campaign. And so Pledge Me is one platform that was created here in New Zealand and is the one that is really the most popular at least to use. And then Snowball Effect is one where you can also do equity crowdfunding. And we can talk on that as well later on. So the last section here is like basically there are resources for new or startup companies. And for one as an Edmund Hillary fellow and for us like this is really just an amazing amazing kind of like benefit is that the BNZ Bank of New Zealand has basically opened up their partner business centers all across the country for HFLs to use. So this is the equivalent of your co-working space, meeting space, you can, you can set up events as well. We've been, yeah, we've had big events and these things for free for free. So, and there are, there are BNZ partners centers all across the country. So it's certainly one one to use. In terms of incubators as well. So we personally have not used an incubator but we've partnered with incubators because as I mentioned before we run the New Zealand air space and space challenges. And we actually also run a virtual incubator ourselves with with the collaboration of actual incubators on the ground. So here's three different types of incubators here. Callahan Innovation has incubators that they actually support. And so there's one one that's actually just like starting up this this month of April and there's four that they that they kind of like support across the country. The economic development agencies that I mentioned earlier on some of the big ones are basically connected and support incubators. So for example, Auckland. The 80 EDA is is is basically supporting grid AKL Wellington with the creative H2 and then universities also are affiliated with incubators. So just these are just examples of some of them as well. And business mentors. So this one is a is an interesting one where we actually we just signed up recently. The business mentors program for less than 300 New Zealand dollars a year gets you one mentor for for the whole year. And today will pair you with with actually a specific individual here in New Zealand who could further like help you with with your your startup or your business, which I think was a was a big benefit. And then lastly, you can find interns. So for us, we had two interns that we had engaged last year as well from the University of Canterbury. So there are master students that depending on what they're working on and their projects can actually be good, you know, be an intern to to you for several months, depending on what we what your needs are and they can certainly kind of match what what what you need. And Callan innovation is also doing that as well, especially for those who are working on R&D. They will fund it in. Thank you. Interns. Yeah. Yeah. So I will end here. This is just again who we are are you can find us through our emails. We've got resources resources as well online. We will podcast our website. And then we also curate the several Facebook groups and and as about the meetup in Wellington. So thank you so much. Thank you so much, Eric and Emily and it was really amazing to see your journey there and all of the really useful resources that you're sharing. And one question that was brought up earlier and actually I want to know as well is why you saw New Zealand in the first place because you came earlier than each had applications open. And I remember that then you were thinking already about New Zealand. So so I want to know about New Zealand also why Christchurch because you were here first. You were here first and then you left us. Yeah, it's a really great question for us. I mean, there I think there's there's a personal reason and that there's there's also a definitely a business reason for one on the personal side. I mean, we've been coming to New Zealand since like 2002 on on kind of like vacations. We're both outdoor people. We love nature. It's just we fell in love with with the country kind of location wise and the people that we've met over here. But on the other side on the on the business side, we actually really believe that it is the best place to prototype a space sustainable ecosystem. And we know we do this with with our presentations where to have a sustainable space ecosystem kind of like a need to tick boxes. And some of those essentially are a very progressive government, which is is really very I think that the reason why why the success of Rocket Lab. You do get a feeling that in New Zealand, the government works with surprisingly well. And so that's quite a surprise. Yeah, so there's already basically a space infrastructure and capability with Rocket Lab. There's a tech entrepreneurial and educational ecosystems or high high high educational systems that are already here and then location wise. Yeah, probably that's even the kind of like the best reason for it air traffic wise. It's it's best for launching and and and so the and the as I mentioned that you know the culture as well of risk takers and also why Christ Church. Why Christ Church basically Christ Church right now is very focused on becoming the airspace hub for New Zealand in their sector plan. That's one of the ones that they they focus on as their super nodes. And so there is so which means that there's already buy in with the local government and there's a big manufacturing base here as well. And so I think it just ticks all of the boxes for for us. Back when we were trying to start our our aerospace challenge space challenge that we just went down and gave one pitch to Christ Church and they said yes and and within a couple months we had within one month. Well, I was thinking about all the other partners we had with we had almost 30 partners organization partners within a couple months and so it's. So they're really ready for new ideas and you know a lot of a lot of ways that's very good. Another question here sort of a general thing that's come through is would you sort of say the comparables between setting up a US corporate or B Corp or LLC. Is that comparable to some of the options you had when you were sitting up in New Zealand. That's an interesting. That's an interesting question. So in the US there's this different. You know they're the legal entity so you can be a corporation or you can be an LLC like they're two separate ones. I think in New Zealand there's only one. And so you can either be a sole proprietor ship you can be a partnership or you can be an LLC those are the three besides the the the charitable trust. So yeah if you're setting up a company here that's basically your choice and there's there's no equivalent of a benefit corporation at this point. Right there people are working on that but it doesn't fit and also the charitable trust in New Zealand is a little bit more restrictive than a nonprofit in the US. It really has to be for you know poverty education and community and there's also there is also religious aspect but it option but it but so in in in the US the nonprofit is a little bit broader. Just one thing we encountered. So that kind of adds to one of the questions there because it was also why did you choose to do a nonprofit business as opposed to going down the charity route. Yeah. Yeah so and yeah just to elaborate basically we did try to so we we set up an LLC and here you can. You can register to be a charitable company so which means that if you if you make that cut you can take in philanthropic funding. But as Eric was like saying it's very it's a lot more restrictive here and we come into the category of business and economic growth which is not a charitable. Yeah we made it we did an experiment made an effort of rewriting things and making an application to be a charitable trust but it got rejected and it made sense it just we just didn't fit in their categories. Thank you and I wanted to I know that you mentioned before about a bit about your your fellowship and your experience as a fellow. So what is one person asked about what's your relationship with other fellows and how how different is for you to be part of New Zealand being a fellow. And how that community supports you along the way. Yeah. Yeah. And so we value the our EHF community well especially like now in lockdown. You know we we have a lot of like online digital who is or digital meetings where for one you're very close with our own cohort ourselves. So each time that you go as a group kind of make you bond because you get to do like a kickoff and an orientation in the beginning. So that's kind of like one but at the same time there are platforms and channels that we collaborate together. And so we cut across cohorts when when kind of like we collaborate. So in terms of us with space base because we run these challenges kind of like all over the past two years. We've recruited our fellows for either you know as judges mentors. We've had like one very prominent fellow be kind of like an MC for for our our events as well. We've we've introduced fellow investors to some of the companies that we've been mentoring and they have gotten funding as well. So so yeah the within fellows themselves. There's there's definitely a great community to leverage and and also internally we have this kind of like asks and offers where if you have something that you can offer you you can offer to the community. But at the same time if you need something there's also a way to mobilize kind of the the entire community to kind of like growl at your boss and the and the fellows also it's a tremendous global network to. Yeah, yeah that's the other thing as well I mean I always joke around it like if I was if I was applying now like I probably wouldn't get in because just the caliber of the people that are that are coming in is just mind blowing. And so there's there's a lot of of kind of like even like at the moment like even untapped opportunity for collaboration. I just wanted to also say that because you mentioned a lot of fellows have supported you on your journey I just wanted to say that. Eric and Emily are the first fellows that have moved to New Zealand and and they have been really the draw really high bar for the rest kind of because they have been amazing and the work that they do and the support they provide to the community. And this session that now is public they have been doing this for fellows forever because they are the first one to try to set up a company here and kind of I as outside they're getting to know the New Zealand and the EHS community. So I just wanted to flag that because you've been organizing like the meetups in Wellington meetups in Christchurch and being really hands on on everything about the community, not only business wise but also like community wise, and that has been like a great thing to see as EHS evolves. So I just wanted to flag that. Thank you so much. We say you can one last question. One that just sort of popped up is what in your short time that you've been here what industries do you see are emerging and that you know people could be looking at all the types of people that could apply might be liking to see. Now I've actually had COVID come up it's actually kind of changing it all really so it's probably been creating more new industries. That's really a good, good point. And then suggest to know that because we are so much focus on on starting an aerospace space industry that's sort of like what we've been, we've been focusing on for for quite a bit. But for one, well, as part of that, that that I've seen that that's emerging are kind of like data, data related companies. So, meaning there are now a bunch of like data analysis companies that are leveraging space technology or space data remote sensing that are popping up here that are using data applications on the ground. So, which means, you know, agriculture, more sort of like monitoring. Yeah, and there are a lot of skills here there's, you know, we're also trying to help a startup of a artificial intelligence connected with space data in Australia and New Zealand and there's a group, a lot of groups here working on applying artificial intelligence to space data but there's other groups that are doing AI work and, and then there's big, you know, virtual reality augmented reality development teams here there's, and of course there's the all the fancy special effects from movies and things like that. And then one thing to notice that my understanding is that Agni Tech here in New Zealand is actually world class like when they're when their teams go to California, the Californians are really impressed, you know, that would be precision agriculture technologies that are developed here. So yeah, there's there's a lot of capability and opportunity. And of course also green, green renewable energy as well is another on the major theme too. Yeah, so it has just asked about any pre seed advice for startup sort of just asked it beneath you can add a bit more detail and color to the question because that's quite broad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, well, I think one thing that in general New Zealanders need that EHF fellows people come from the outside can is better connections to the outside global networks and, and especially like partnerships or, or ways to take a something that you develop in New Zealand and then take to the next stage. You know, for global markets, things like that that that's we run into lots of new New Zealand entrepreneurs that basically sort of hit a wall and say, we don't have the networks, or we don't know what the next step is for taking ideas out to the world. And so I think there's potential you know that's one one value that somebody that an outsider comes comes in with are these better connections. And then I think as well because the fellowship has investors and entrepreneurs. And I think we ourselves still need to do better kind of like understand and curate that so that the entrepreneurs can actually find more kind of or matched better with the the investors that are coming in because there's just a lot of ideas and pull and talent and potential startups that could come from the entrepreneurs that the investors part of the fellowship can can actually leverage and also look into a potential source of investment. So the last question just got a bit more detail on that precede so it's about if you're developing a prototype an app or something is what sort of assistance is there in New Zealand so that you can kind of get to the MVP stage before you go to investors. I would go check on Callahan innovation because that's really what they're they're focused on is really, you know, high tech or deep tech risky new ideas that might not be funded by like regular investors or angels. And so if you are in the kind of like the prototyping stage, that's really what they're looking at normally. Yeah, and they really understand the needs of the of the startups at that stage is compared to other government agencies have dealt with. Perfect. Thank you, Pooley. Thank you so much. And we are like one minute over the finish time. So, and I just wanted to So you have a why we're we're doing fine and in our lockdown we have a nice view out here. Oh, nice. Of course, like that is easy, right. That's what that's the one of the perks to be here. Yes. I wish I wish we had that view, but it is easy to get that we are so lucky here. So thank you so much Eric and Evelyn for showing to join us today. How is it that how you've done it and and all of your experience has been like three years in New Zealand already. We are really lucky to have you here. Yeah, and we've started our process of applying for our permanent residency already. And so, yeah, we will have it here and hopefully New Zealand will take us. Yes, yes. I hope so too. I'm sure it will. I have left in the chat window a feedback form for all of you to let us know how we did it today. And applications for cohort eight are open until the first of June. And it's the last opportunity that we have this year to access a global impact visa. So if you're interested about applying or curious about the HF, I will definitely recommend you to go to our website and make sure you check it out. And if you have any questions, you can reach to us in through like social media, or there's different webinars coming up about the application form and different ways of applying. And also we are doing many other works as part of the new frontiers digital, many of the fellow experiences and so check out our website that we you will see new sessions coming up every day we are trying to look new people. And we also want to know if you have any topics that you think we should be covering. So thank you so much for joining and see you.