 And we're here with Sicki Junta, and Sicki is with CSE. She's an entrepreneur, she's a cloud expert, she's a technologist, a business person, her official title is Global Vice President of Cloud Computing and Cloud Services at CSE. Welcome. Thank you, thank you for having me. It's good to see you here, and we're very excited to be at Sapphire. This is day three, of course, and we're going to talk cloud with Sicki. So why don't we start off, Sicki? Tell us, what is cloud all about? Is it living up to the hype? I personally believe that cloud, it is the way of the future. We don't have enough trees and data centers for the generation that we're breeding, you know? The generation that we're breeding produce a tremendous amount of data by the minute. Digital data, texting data, voice data, and all this data has to be maintained. So the cloud, it is the future to go, and it's actually changed in the last three years I've been working for quite a while. The dynamics of the last 12 months, people have gone from being educational. I want to know, and you have to spell MC, sounds like cloud, and then you say to them, now they have projects, they have money, they have value added, they have real determination in their cloud projects. How is it changing your business? I mean, CSC is a very well-known, broad-based service provider, outsourcing, and so forth. How is the cloud changing your business? It is very interesting because it's kind of transforming the business of CSC. It's transforming the way that we interact with our customers and prospects. We use a lot of digital media. The way we approach to our customers is very different. We do pilots in our cloud. The business model is changing, meaning we don't take Husset and people like in an outsourcing deal. We just run it from our fabric, or we deliver cloud fabric at the customer data centers, and we manage it, or we can say to them, we'll give you the cloud fabric, and you are like in Amazon. You can manage it yourselves, and we just keep the fabric well. We provide the provisioning, we provide the orchestrations, and you are your own service provider. Is it very different than what CSC does to this morning? What's the top reason folks talk to you about the cloud? You've got a lot of clouds going on, building clouds. You've been a tech entrepreneur in the past, sold your companies, but you're at CSC, big brands are coming to you. What is the number one thing you're seeing, the pattern of the customer requests and or new customers? I think the customers, they're really serious about cloud, want agility, business agility. IT delivery, time to delivery of, even six weeks of three months that is traditional, it is not possible today. Customers wants to build application in a matter of weeks instead of months. The new platforms like force.com and Azure, you have Spring Source, you have VMware, you have Google Labs, they actually have this very beautiful object oriented way for you to write application very, very fast. And so that requires a delivery mechanisms that can sustain that. More, I think that they want to build brand new applications that they can stay with them for the next 20 years. We were waiting to come on this morning, we were talking on prior, you said the cloud is a user experience. I think that's really profound. Can you expand on that? That was pretty compelling. I think people look at the cloud as this tech iron, big iron in there. But you talk about what you mean by the cloud as a user experience. So, there are two types of clouds. There is the consumer clouds, that's the cloud that we do every, you're typing in the cloud and we have Facebook and Twitter and all this. I play Angry Birds, that's, I mean gaming, it's a big cloud. That's end user experience of the cloud. So, if you live in your cloud end user experience and then you go work, you just say, why do I have to wait six weeks when I can play, you know, I can play Final Fantasy in real time with people in Hong Kong. That's really the experience of the cloud. And enterprise is not there yet and it has two issues. First of all, the technology really is not there to provide that, the applications like SAPs and the evolution of the systems. Second, the processes of internal IT are really very rigid sometimes. You have to go fill up a request and you've got to get all this approval and it has to be seen by 25 people and the business model and all that. So, we have the challenge of accelerating the business process and providing the same end user experience there. And that's why at CSC, we have pilots in our clouds. We say to customers, come and use our portal, our provisioning environment, upload workloads and start to understand what does it mean interacting with the entire dynamic. You know, try it out. Try it out. And then they get a nickname, you know, they got a growing, you know, puppy and then they're stuck with the animal, the cloud. Yeah, I didn't ever compare cloud to puppy but that's a new point of view. John will come up with a lot of those in the next half hour. Siky, your company is technology agnostic in many ways, right? You don't really get wed to a particular technology or services company, so you have to be that trusted advisor to your clients. We're here at Sapphire and we're hearing a lot about in-memory computing and HANA. We were talking a little bit about that off camera. What's your take on this notion that SAP is putting forth? They call it the RAM cloud. In-memory computing, the HANA cloud. What's your angle on that? So, first of all, let's all understand that RAM and memory is the juice of cloud. And I'll give you an analogy. A cloud is like an apartment building where if the guy at the top takes a hot shower and uses the hot water, the guy at the bottom has a cold shower. And that's really the real analogy in a cloud vector. If I have a very intense memory usage workload, some could be SAP, JD Edwards, and some others, the other, everybody in that community, in that multi-tenant, that's what it is. Multi-tenant means we are all together feels the same problem. And so memory, it is the juice of cloud. But that doesn't mean that because I have a lot of memory, I don't have to optimize systems. Systems should be optimized and agile by themselves. That's why a lot of refactoring, a lot of building legacy Java to a spring environment where you have encapsulation techniques, where you have object orientations. And that makes agile workloads that really are optimized to use the maximum of the memory. So we're going through this period right now. We talked about private clouds and public clouds and then hybrid clouds. And we're sort of in this period where we've got one foot in the legacy camp and because we don't want to rip and replace and we've got another foot in this agile, new world. Are you seeing a lot of sort of native, new application development that's going to take advantage of these new cloud architectures, new potential business processes? Are you seeing that today and how long do you think it will take to actually see that, bring true innovation to business? I think that today the biggest usage of cloud are DavenTest. So if the DavenTest is the biggest use of cloud, that means that all the new projects are being developed to be delivered on a cloud vector. And that's really very, very, very important today. It gets virtualized, it uses a platform. But there is a big movement to refactor my applications because waiting for everything new, there is only 20% of innovation in every large shop of IT today. So there is a lot of companies that do create a roadmap for their workload and when I talk to them, I say divide your workload part in three categories. The legacy one that will never move, the one that are in a greed environment, some virtualize, they're hard, the database is too big, the construct is not agile, and the one that you want to do straight away, DavenTest, email, unified communication, CRM. And the other things evaluate, do I have to, is it core that I have to own it and build it or could I sus it? So could I buy a system that it is already out there, that it's like the Salesforce of this world and that suite of this world, that work day is success factor or any type of HR system and say why do I have to own it? Why can't I have a sus cloud environment where I can buy that soonest? Doing this exercise helps them understand what is core, what is not, and where should I spend the money to take legacy applications to the cloud? So we've seen some major changes in all layers of IT. You've got your device here, your iPad, we've hearing a lot of changes at the application layer, and of course the infrastructure as well. How is infrastructure changing? And there's a lot of talk about convergence and there's logical blocks of infrastructure. What are your thoughts there? Well, I think that at the infrastructure layer, we are actually seeing two major changes, that are coming very fast. First of all, the multi-core environment, 20 cores is gonna be here soon, sooner than we think, and so all this memory conversation will re-evaluate again, because how is that memory gonna work with all this capacity compute that we have? And that's a real conversations and the iPAdvisor that has the interaction with the fabric will need to be optimized to be able to take advantage of that. Storage is going through a lot of changes, multi-tiering, being the ability to say, I don't wanna maintain this for a long time, understanding the retention periods, it's even more critical than before, because the access to that data, now it's very fast, and understanding the tiering and how you're going to do on a network storage, what you're gonna cache, what are you gonna clone, and creates a lot of questions when you build an application or when you refactor the applications. A lot of it, I think we have to realize that the systems have speed as a requirement and optimize from the end user to the bare metals, what's the most efficient path they get there? I just mentioned some real hot tech areas that we're all over, obviously the multi-cores and you guys are talking about the cores, the in-memory, you know, you got solid state changing, we heard SAP guys here saying, memory's the new disk, disk is the new tape, tape is dead, pretty simple message there, but multi-core memory, the hypervisor, role of virtualization and the changing storage, all those forces are colliding. Wouldn't some argue that that's an opportunity for redefinition of a new operating environment, so to your point about optimization. How do you see that evolving? Is that fantasy, is that kind of like a wish list? Do you see new architectures developing? Definitely new architectures are being developed. HANA, it's a new architecture, for instance. It's an optimized architecture for mobility and to create a very pleasant user experience with all the data that SAP has because SAP has all this amount of data locked in, and so it's a new architecture. You just say, instead of changing the structure of the data or the app, I am actually moving the interaction at the mobility level to a new device so that the experience is better. In some cases, we will have to go back all the way and write brand new systems that can support that, but I believe the new architecture are built all the time. I think that we haven't probably ever seen. What's the preferred vision for the future, for this architecture that you're seeing and that you're driving towards, obviously, in memory stuff, this immediate benefits to caching? What do you see as the preferred methods that are driving right now? I think that looking at mobility so that you can divide the user from the systems is very important because if you don't do that, you actually slow down the end user experience and the end user is the productivity that we get every day. Second, we have to look at business logics can isolate the business logic so that I can really change it in a dynamic way. In the last 10 years or 20 years, we built a system where we encoded everything. It has to talk to this database over this IP address with all this hard core. Stand a configuration. It's very hard in the cloud environment, the dynamic environment, the media environment. So we have to look at the system and say, how can I use so object orientations, platforms, separations, logic? How can I isolate the data if I have to? How can I put virtual data marks on top of it so that I can cube the data? Because in a kind of way what HANA is, is I've got a structured data, then I cube it and then that cube gets talked to everybody. And normally I know that in the data that is 80% to get used 20% or reverse. So it's really an interaction and we are detecting from the end user best experience. I want to give them that Facebook experience. I want to give them that gaming experience to how do I get to the data. And the data, it's probably 20 years old and it's in the mainframe and maybe not going to go away. So when you talk to some of the vendors, like for instance in EMC, they talk about the V-Block as Cisco's pushing UCS. And they call it cloud ready or cloud enabled or cloud optimized I guess is the term they use. Is that just good marketing or is it really the right model for the cloud to have that sort of single logical block of infrastructure? What's your take on that? Well, CSC is a V-Block user. We use V-Block for all our cloud fabric deployment and for our base cloud that is the first private cloud delivered on premises on a rate card. It's a unique value proposition nobody has meaning you don't have to buy millions of capital. We deliver to you, it's ready. Just provision the workload, we teach you how to do it and we can do it in 10 weeks. Now, we can only do it with an optimized block where the hardware and the hardware and storage and network and compute are very integrated and then we use the VMware app advisor has the communication mechanism. So we believe and I personally believe that that's today the best technology available. UCS was built for cloud, I mean Project California. That server was built thinking virtualizations, the optimization to the app advisor to the chip. So that's why I think it is for CSC and for our customer the best solutions and it has a future proof solution. All the other architecture and hardware have to change like HP just did a brand new set of equipment. And so I- People use that word future proof all the time and it's just like a punch line. Can you expand on that? Just expand, it was a good term. It means basically you buy something in your headroom it takes you into the future. So just drill down on that more detail because that's a really important point that folks, they don't want the cloud washing mentality, they want to see specifics. So just expand on that if you could. So first of all, clouds, there's no magic there and there is a project. You say, I want to take my Devon test to the cloud, you have to plan it, you have to test it and you have to make it happen. So there's no magic in cloud, no pixie dust. Like any other projects. The ability to what I call future proof is what I call cloud plus five. Something that I can sustain in the next five years and not having to do an architecture change or a major change. I will do refreshments because the hardware is moving faster and faster. Point releases, add some stuff to it. But my architectural, substantial architectural layers and everything is kind of stable for that. But cloud pushes innovation to us as a provider, to our suppliers and to our end users all the time because it is a brand new paradigm. So future is the roadmap that you built for yourself, dear customers, they're going to say. I have my roadmap. I know what my clouds are going to look in five years. I know the things that I'm evaluating, HTML5 for everything that is an end user. Vblock for the fabric, I'm looking at how do I integrate cloud providers, the API structures. We are building a very interesting platform for a cloud service broker where we will be the broker on all the cloud providers and look at the SLA and maintain the transparency. So I know exactly what my cloud are going to look in five years. So that's when I sit with my CIO. I say, you don't have to do cloud. The doctor doesn't say that you have to do cloud. But if you do, understand the business value and what's the roadmap and what's the current state to end state and the value that you want to bring to the business. So CSE, obviously cloud service provider and the Chinese proverb, may you live in interesting times. We're in the technology business so we always live in interesting times, I guess. But so you have your cloud business, you're provisioning your own cloud, you have your own data centers. We see SAP announced today the HANA cloud. But you're, of course, a big SAP partner. Now you're sort of quasi-competitor. Are you going to build your own HANA cloud? I mean, how does that all work? You live in this age of co-operation. Can you talk about that a little bit? But that's the beauty of cloud. Cloud doesn't bring competition, brings integration. So I'll give you another example. We work very strongly with Microsoft Azure in their environment. But our customer comes to CSE because they want the full service experience and they want security and they want somebody that really looks at the architecture of what they're doing and that just expertise, not just the cloud. So we have created a federation model where a customer comes in our cloud, it's called Cloud Build, and say I want to build myself a force application. The integration to the force platform is seamless to the end users. We actually integrate to the force platform and we actually run the code in the force platform. But the customer says, I want to not put it in my data in the public cloud. I want to either have it on physical, I want it on your data center. So we take care of all that in the federation model. So we talked a lot about SAP, with SAP in the last three days about HANA. And they have their business on demand platform that it is a way to write applications and sit on top of it. And we asked them, we want to run the application, the platform ourselves because I value added. And they're not ready. So I said, okay, we will do a fixed platform like force or Google or Azure, but we have portable platforms like Spring or Cordes or a Lamstack. But remember that the customer feels a lock in because they know they can only run it there. They're being data centers. And when you wrote an app in a fixed platform, you kind of just say, okay, I'll take it and I'll run it there. It runs only there. It's optimized. Like if you write a force app, you can write it in matter of days, but it runs only there. You can't just say, I don't like your self-force. I'm gonna walk with my data. Yeah, you walk with your data, but the app stays there. And so there is a lot of lock in in this platform. But federation is the value added that CSC brings. We understand that the world is dynamic in nature and we will push hard on all our suppliers to say, when can we have the ability for them to have portable workloads instead of fixed workloads? The CSC leading executive forum did some work a couple of years ago that I read and they were talking to some CIOs and those guys and they said, yeah, it's part of CSC. It's very good work that they do. And they said anecdotally that the discussions with CIOs, this is probably 2009 timeframe during the downturn, suggested that CIOs are accelerating, IT organizations are accelerating their adoption of cloud by as much as 12 to 18 months. And then we went out into the Wikibon community and confirmed that same thing. It was really compressing that cycle. And I think you would describe it as everybody needed a cloud. It was sort of this cloud frenzy and now it's a little bit more selective. One of the areas that seems to be having good uptake in cloud is the federal government. They seem to, you know, the new federal CIO is really hitting hard on cloud. The fact is, is a supporter. Yeah, and so, so what are you seeing there? Why is that? And how much money can you actually save with cloud? That's a very good question. So in the federal case, since 1999, they had 400 data centers and when they did the last census of all the data center, I think it was 2008, they had over a thousand data centers. And so that's a huge growth. Everybody, I want my own data centers. And so the government- It's a laptop center, they have iPads. That's a data center. So I am, so I think the government has come to the conclusion to say, we all belong to the same family. Yes, we all have our differences and security and privacy, but let's try to learn how to share. And I think there is a strong mandate of a federal to use cloud vectors. In fact, CSE is part of the data center consolidation committee where Jim Schaefer, our president of public sector, is a contributing member. The other interesting things that we see is that actually federal, for the first time, turns to commercial and says, what is he working on the commercial side? Let's take commercial structures and architectures and apply so that we can move much, much faster and reduce the cost. So now it comes to the cost. I dissect the cost of cloud in various sections. First of all, you have to virtualize. And so virtualization brings you 15%. You're going from 700 servers to, let's say, 200 servers. Let's have a look at the energy efficiency. And that's a saving, you save in energy, you save in agility, you save in space and heat and everything. And that's a real hardcore cost. You have a cost that you have to buy new hardware that will run a virtualized environment. But if you take all your refresh cycle, everything that is coming to be done, you buy new hardware that can support that. Yeah, you can synchronize that. So that isn't a big cost. Then if you do infrastructure as a service, you get another 15, I mean maybe 10%, like I go to Amazon. But then you hit a brick wall. And that brick wall is your applications that don't run on the cloud. And you don't have any more things to cloud. So that's why I say to my CEO, we have to look at the IT part and your apps. And we have to go to the hardcore run and maintain IT budget that today is 60% and evaluate how are we gonna write new applications that get modernized, or how can we refactor the application so that we can reduce this run and maintain down to no more than 50%. So we can use all the other 50 for the innovation. And that's why at CSC we believe if somebody takes this portfolio approach, we can commit up to 40 to 45% cost reduction on a traditional company. Now, if you are a brand new company and you really do the analysis core versus non-core and you go at the SaaS route, you actually can reduce your cost a lot. When I was a CIO, I had a data center, I had a data center, and I said, I don't wanna run data centers. I just built software. I don't have to have a data center. The last person that was holding up was my CFO. And he says, oh, I like my system. I said, no, six months, you are on that suite. Otherwise, you are on that suite. And now he's the number one net suite speaker for a public company of using SaaS systems. So it is a cultural. It's a great movement right now, cloud. This is SiliconANGLE.tv, the worldwide leader in online tech coverage. This is theCUBE. This is where we talk about all the great stories and content with Sikigunta. Great conversation here at SiliconANGLE.tv. Question on the services angle. Dave and I have been talking for weeks now about how the services business is changing, both the services of delivery, consulting integration, which you mentioned, that's where cloud is. It's not about competition, it's about integration. And also the services that can be offered on the cloud. So how is the services business changing, the value chain of the architecture to the new services that are being delivered? We call that services angle. I mean, what's your angle on the services business? Well, it's changing into ways. One, it becomes more strategic. So all this road mapping and understanding of the asset portfolio and where do you want to be in three years and what's the type of IT leader you want to be for your organization? So it's moving upwards and then actually it's becoming very, very technical. People that really knows virtualization, optimization, infrastructure and can really what I call the youngsters, the guys that can really write apps very fast. The young, the young coders, the young coders that really don't want to spend the time on, you know, I'll write this big proposal and he's there and I'll show you. And that's when I interviewed it for CSE. The kid in five minutes, his own is the iPad or laptop or Apple, I know that he lives the cloud every day and this is really the new people that I say we have to look for. But there is a big difference. The culture change. The consultant with the tie and the lotalia process, one in two and three so that kids say give me two hours and I'll give it back to you. So it's a huge conflict in the service. I mean back in the 90s, remember that, that's the consultant suit, they're making a lot of money, project management, huge schedules, kind of slow. Now it's like you got these gunslinger coders who can whip up apps, deploy it in the cloud in a couple days, in a day. Mindset change, man, you used to start with a Word document to your PowerPoint and now they're starting with, you know, code. Well, now the most used tool is a mind map for a project instead of a bullet point and I think that's when you start in a conversation with a customer, you follow the threads of where he wants to be and then in the end you end up with a map of what he needs to be done. But it is a different culture and the beauty of having the traditional thing though is that you can actually provide structure to this creativity. So the end result is a quality because, you know, cowboying is in tech, it's cowboying in tech. And I want to have that especially with our customers where we, you know, in cloud we have small and large. I mean, I have Lipix system, a small biotech to Dupont so that that's my spectrum. But quality is the most important thing, I think. So we have to put quality within the vision. We're here with this.