 Hi there, this is Professor Steve Singer from Keelan Community College. Welcome to the Cyber Underground. I'm going to be your guest host here as a work studio host. And then we're going to go live to Dave Stevens in Las Vegas, Nevada. Dave, how's it going guy? I'm good, I'm on the screen now. You're on. Can you see us now? Okay, I'm here. I'm Dave Stevens, the host of the Cyber Underground. Welcome back. Here we did find out how Cyber Security touches all of us in our everyday lives. Today, again, I have Hal Colburn at the other end of the table here joining us. One of our other assistant professors at Capilani Community College for the University of Hawaii System. Also joining us here today are three of our students. But before we begin, am I coming through, you can hear us? Okay Steve, are you going to sound? I'm going to assume he's got sound. So we're just going to keep going. This is Jamie Nile. Alessandro, can you see me last time? Yes, of course. So my name is Alessandro Cowley. Okay, and I've got the conversation. All right, so all the victims of our Cyber Security program at Capilani Community College for the first two years of their poor existence in the IT game. And now they're about ready to move on. You guys, I didn't know a little bit about where you're from. And what brought you to the IT. A little bit about your experience and what you're doing here at Capilani Community College. So let's start with them. My name is Dempenshah. I guess I'll be joining the rest of our program as it is coming out. So that's one of our two campuses in the university system and they do a bachelor's degree in science and university IT. How are you doing information assurance? So basically cyber security. So you're moving on to the third year program. Okay, how'd you get into IT in the first place? Were you forced? No, actually I had an internship at Monard Group back online and I was exposed to their technique. Helping them to network gaming, simple computer fixing things. And from there I got really interested in it and then I continued on. Tried to do it on a hobby. Couldn't really do it there, so I didn't do it at the time. And what are you doing here? Most of today actually I've been sitting in their social engineering village. Oh, that's a great group. I loved that one last year. Yeah, you watch them actually hack people on the phone. Yeah, listening to them attend. Some people attempted to do things other people actually did. Complete what they were going to do. It was really interesting to see how people answer the quotes and how they try to get people to continue through and give away information. Yeah, and every little bit counts for the next phone call, right? You know, changing phone calls using previous information for the next phone call. Or sometimes people just do a single phone call and get a piece you keep. Okay, Alex? So, I'm going to the sending service. So I'm interested in my doctor's degree and information security insurance. In the beginning I'll call to the sentencing actually. So, I'm interested in the small background information I have with them is that I'm actually from Korea and what led to my passion in IT particularly was there were several reasons actually, but one of the big reasons was because when I was younger my dad really, he was in the military at the time. He taught me how to use computer. From there slowly I developed a passion compared to what I was taking to myself. Okay, this really is where I really want to go. So, after I found my passion, with my dad and I, we came to Hawaii and then from there started what I had to do, what to do in high school, and eventually we came to Papio University and it was hard to get it wrong because of the information technology. Well, and you guys, this is Jamie Lau. Jamie, tell us a little bit about yourselves and then tell us what you did in the Harbor Vacuum Village. Okay, my name is Jamie and I will be graduating this year and transferring to the University of Hawaii, West Oahu. And so a little bit of background about myself. I'm a mom and I was tired of just jumping from run-up job to run-up job so I decided to go back to school with KCC and I'm an astronaut. And the first time I took the call I decided to learn about everything here. And what we did was Alex and I stopped at the Harbor Vacuum Village and we built this little device so we soldered everything with the sisters, the pastor, and boys in activity. So the villages are just one of the many, many conferences going on in there. We have villages like social engineering, wires, active communities. And we also have presentations here, right? We have tracks for the tracks where you can take presentations and you just go from room to room about every hour and hear another presentation. What else is going on? We have workshops that I guess still have been like 15 minutes deep online so I'm already here when I get some of the workshops. It's kind of chaotic in the hallways, right? We can't get a shot on the hallways and get back and forth between these stuff. The lines are horrendous, but it's worth it, it's worth it, it's worth it. We just stopped into a health care... I'm hacking them. Yeah, I'm hacking them. Well, they had the first time we ever did happen to be the election machine hacking village. But we got to try this one now. We stopped in and we could barely get any room. Apparently it's a lot of them. And a lot of them speak English, by the way, you guys out there, Steve, we depend on you to tell us when we need to go to a break. So just shout it out. I don't know how long we're going to get, but tell us when we need to go to a break. Well, just for a little history, DEFCON is not an info security or a defensive conference. What we got here is an offensive security conference or what we could call... Oh, gosh, how would I put it? They don't really call themselves hackers anymore. They're security researchers. But it's a very necessary component of the entire security ecosystem. If you don't research how to hack things, then people don't know how to defend things. You just have to guess what to defend. But these guys, actually, being how an amateur presentation is more and more, we saw somebody that made a robot that you had to do a save. And it took about 51 minutes to go through every single possible combination on the save and manually open. It's pretty amazing. What's your favorite thing about coming here to Vegas? Just the hands-on experience. Oh, it's kind of an industry thing, right? You get to enhance it in the industry and you get to see other kind of people that see some interesting people there. Yeah. There's some interesting folks here. But you can meet some of your friends here too. There's a place to meet some of your connections. If you make the right connections, you can reach out and ask for help. And they can reach out to you and ask for help as well. And you guys can actually come here to the conference here every year. Yeah, it's a little expensive to get out of Vegas, but Dev County itself is only $260 this year. And it's not bad. The conference is like a black hat. And next year, we just found out about a conference here as well. One of the temporary resets where they give you a mentor, a conference for resume, creation, and continue the industry. And you guys have all done your insurance, right? Yeah. Okay. So after that, do you have anything to add? It was just school. Just school for now? Just another couple of years of school. And then instead of applying for an NSA scholarship, there's an NSA scholarship. It's for women. And I'll give you the rings, and then I'll just have a presentation in NSA. We'll get you guys into the place in the Wahoo. That's the middle of the Wahoo, by the way. It's a little covered place. They call it Tom. It's very secure. It's a good presentation. You can come too. What else? Tell me something else about what's going on here. What did you guys do this morning, besides the hard work happening? You were here yesterday? Yes. What did you do yesterday? Sema. Anything else? Actually, explain. So I'm very under the process of administration. We went through a couple of the problems. I tried it under the first slide of the lecture. We went to a second job, which was digital architecture, digital archaeology, and I thought that was pretty interesting. And I think, during the middle of Tom's thesis, my colleagues were getting the same, but he was talking about how being acquired, supposing NSA, flying from California, from a government auction, and I was like, wow, I didn't know he could actually get a part of that. It was able to actually go into those, here to be able to get some, like, images out of there. This is one of the biggest problems right now, with older military equipment being sold off. Sometimes buyers aren't people, and they can hack that hardware. And if they know somebody else has purchased that hardware, they know how to hack that new person's hardware. So, for example, I don't know, if you buy that 15 fighter jets, and then you kind of hack it, or if you buy that 15 fighter jets, all over the world, or if you ever bought that jet, and now you know how to hack their jets. So this problem, in the last year, when we watched somebody hack an ATM, they had a shipment area, and those haven't even been put into service yet, and they've already been hacked, and purchased it on them, from the company that was going to sell them. They didn't mind when they sold them an ATM. And they hacked it, right in front of us, and it was pretty remarkable that with a little swipe reader, that they can install self-review, they didn't have anybody to hack. The brand new ones, they were chip protected. So that's a big problem. What did you do yesterday? Yesterday, I didn't really come yesterday. I did attend the pilot. Oh, you're fired. You went to Black Hat, that's right. So Black Hat and DEF CON share a game, right? So you went to both days of Black Hat, and then came here, so the tail stream. Oh, that's right, you had a long way. What was your training? I had a training in basic webhack. That was kind of... So did you guys look at the schedule and see if there was an answer tomorrow? MMORPG. Really? You want to hack the game? How do you want to play it? It looked like a really interesting hack. Something I did allocate and kind of interested in hacking, so they kind of go hand in hand. So MMORPG, what is that? Massive multiplayer offline work playing game. Very good, right. Yeah, do my hand. That's what I needed to learn. Thursday helped, and they came to preserve. We weren't able to go on a concept for more time, so... for more of this specific choice period, but again, check on this. Did you be able to come up tomorrow? I did, and there's so much to choose from, but I wanted to hit some of the other villages that I didn't check out today. They become the most social engineering village. What's your intelligence? So I wanted to see those first because the lines, they you know, they grow fast. Yeah, so the last year you were engineering there, and you didn't want to talk to me about it. Probably not. Did you get a lot of success? Not yet. No? Okay, well, it's actually less expensive. Anything on this trip is expensive and fewer expensive. I think we'll have to try it. It was great, isn't it? It was. How? We're going to be here tomorrow. We're looking at the schedule. Yeah. I haven't put that closely in the schedule yet, but I'm trying to focus on a lot of I mean, Internet of Things. What is IoT? Security of Internet of Things. I think it's just a real version of the interesting topic. And I wanted to share here with a little bit of background of what has been the most interesting thing so was the research that actually had to do with car work. Yeah. They had the opportunity to program it to packed cars instead of watching it. The garage door would come down and be on the car. They did it through a website which was just Google It was demonstrating that you can turn machines against people because remotely, the software that controls them will serve them as a movement. And if you alter their movement to something expected, you create a terminal on the changes. The door on a car wash was pretty light. It was hilarious. We got to be coming up on 14 minutes now. Steve, can we get a time check? Okay. This is awesome. You guys are having a lot of fun and hearing about some very interesting things. Why don't we take a quick break and we'll come back and hear about what else is going on in Las Vegas. I just walked by and I said, what's happening guys? They told me they were making music. I'm good. I'm good. But I have a story and I don't know where to start. I feel alone in a crowd. I can't sleep. I feel overwhelmed. I don't even know who I am anymore. I still have to watch. I can't live like this anymore. I'm really not so good. But are you ready to listen? Studio for just a second and Steve, can you tell us a little bit more about what's happening in Las Vegas? Yeah, welcome back. We have three new students with us. I'm going to have them introduce themselves so I can get their names wrong. Go ahead, Chris. Tell us a little bit about yourself. I'm my name is Chris. I'm basically an I also go to KTC. But I just traveled over to West Lava for my bachelor's degree in IT. So that's California Community College. You've transferred to the university for your West Lava, which is the campus along the western side of the island. Out of the five campuses we have here. Yep. But I'm also taking classes for KCC and IT because I'm allowed to do that. And I'm also taking classes from West Lava. So you're living in Lava. Where are you from? I'm doing IT. So your career is going in a more general direction? I don't know what you mean specifically. Specifically going to? I also did some classes on cybersecurity so I might be minor in cybersecurity. Okay. Did you take, we had a class in the last semester. Did you take that? No, sadly I did not. But I did finish the first and second level of cybersecurity in the last semester. That's great. I'm here at Deaf Common. And you had to come out to Vegas with the registration. I heard you guys came really early to get your practice. How did that go? Well the line was pretty fun because as we were waiting we got into this room. Everybody was playing the volleyball, the baseball just hitting everybody. I just got there once. Pretty much. Also the line, the line the way it's long but it's long enough to run and time is fast. Did you actually get into some toxins about the procedure? Yeah. We went to the first conference at 10. A presentation or a workshop? It's more like a presentation. They're talking about DNS like how people can hack the websites using DNS and how you can just explain how you can hack it and how you can prevent it. And most of the things we learned is that when companies get hacked it's so much easier to get hacked if it's summed from the inside because they're already connected in the network so people can't get hacked by the DNS. In the firewalls. Interesting enough you guys in my class where another student at your table would encourage you guys to hack but you all did in different ways and he did that exact attack on me at my teacher's workstation because he was on the inside he had nothing in between him and Robert. That's it. It was a good attack and you guys had a hardware attack. You were going to try a drone that straight. Drone. But he dusted my keyboard with a special ultraviolet dust and so you could hit it with a light over my keyboard. I can't confirm that. And then you guys finally had Priscilla misdirected me while you snuck into the G-Log on my system. Very good. It's good work. You guys don't have days on that. Who did the Ancestry.com check on me five generations back to get all of my answers for my security questions? Was it you two? But it was a group effort. And it's 23 in the class. I hope most of you participated in this. Fantastic. That's my opinion. What we call it cyberattacks of defense. They're acceptable. Okay. Next. Hi. I'm Eric. I'm actually starting to come to the science and you actually know about it. Well, that's the mothership of being in the U.H. system. That was the first campus. U.H. model. You get to go to that. The computer science department prestigious. The first one that came up with a low line was the wireless packet to standard that we use for wireless now. That was your department. So you're in that track. Good job. You're a junior? Senior. Super senior. Yeah. You're not taking your time. You're just being thorough. And you're a little on your master's right now. Ah. Okay. You're going on your master's. Okay. And where do you get out of this conference so far? So, I actually haven't been in a secret class in a long time. But it's actually rewarding compared to how the hackers cracked off there and, you know, they're using algorithms I've worked in and asked to get answers and look at their problem solving skills. And, you know, it's just how everything comes together to make things work. So, you've got a theoretical and this is more practical, right? You actually see how you actually put these skills to use. And this is how people can become a hacker. Right? You take the theoretical stuff and you practice it. You go to one of these industry conferences and you put your skills to work and you see it actually works. I've only been hacked once since I've been here. I wonder if I'm on all of sheep. Oh, here you go. Okay. All right. Next. Can you see as well? Graduated recently. You ain't supposed to walk. And... Is it because you break everything you want to fix it? Yeah. Okay. The technical stuff. Can you work with us? On campus? How's that going? Are you going to keep working with us next year? Yep. Do you want to stay with us a little bit longer? Get through your class? Probably. Okay. And you two will go for your masters? Yes. Okay. You have to be competitive. You have to have a master's degree. And you know what we didn't mention about? Which is kind of odd. You'd have to get a master's in computer science. But you guys are all going to do this right. You're just going to be masters of the universe. And then you're going to stay annoying. And not give your skillsets away. Oh, you guys are... I get it. I get it. What do you think about the next two days? What's your plan? You've looked at the book. What's Saturday Sunday? You've looked at the book parties. Well, we have a few more organizations to go to. That's some of the interesting things here. That you can go or shop. For me, but for you, we probably have a... voting booth. Well, yeah. That's hacking the voting machines. You know, I like what they're doing this year to have the demo labs. We can go in and get a small presentation and a demo process that's occurring in the same room. You have a table set up of miniature networks that you can go and practice the skills you just learned at that demo. You guys have seen the wireless ones when we switch them. You should try the demos on them. Oh, but did you bring your laptop? Yes. Go there and try it out safely without damaging me. There's actually a super cool game that we saw. They actually built... I'm not sure if the car is real. And then you can control using the car. You can control the car on the screen to move around on a race track. It's a... I forgot what game it was. Isn't that just a arcade racing game? It's like... I don't know what it... Well, if it's in the hardware, what is a car hacking? You might be driving a real car around somewhere. This is the future of Uber. Yeah, you can actually... You just use the... You actually use the car itself to drive out of the game. It's not that they connected everything in the car to the monitor to actually even the gears to control the car in the game. So maybe the future we can get a car from is just language. I don't know. I'm not in these circles, unfortunately. Probably the last time. Yeah, it's the last time. Have you guys witnessed anything with demo masks since you've been here? The big thing about this conference is the demo of all the hacks they do. I don't know if it was a demo, but there was a lot being done with two-by-thing tracks and a whole bunch of... A whole bunch of things. And most of the time, I'm just going around trying to pick each slot. This is a wonderful thing for Alan. We can have the content from these conferences and the... I'm sorry, after you guys took my ethical class, ethical hacking class, I added lockpicking to the physical security side. So I bring in my lockpick sets and teach people how to pick locks. So you guys ought to pick that up this time. It was really fun. Some of the guys we know were doing lockpicking and having contents to see how fast we could get. And a six-pin lock is the one you see in a typical door, like in a house. And they were doing a six-pin lock that would... When we created some monsters, right? So they went out and started hacking like file cabinets and office doors so we had to put the rain in there. But I mean, it was fun. So you guys should pick a lockpick set and try to lockpick the doors. And a social engineering village, it's exciting, it's interesting, and it's depressing all at the same time. Because you're watching people where you know we're in college but it's just completely falling for it. There was a two-year-old lady last year, a social engineering where you could deliver the tissue. They're an auditing term. They do audits. And she hacked them. On a weekend. It was pretty incredible. So yeah, go there and watch that happen. Can we get a time check? Stephen and I, we get them back in the studio. Yes, we have just one minute left. One minute left? Okay, with our final minute, I just want to shamelessly tell everybody out there we need to get back for money. These students need to get here every year and we need lots of work sponsors. Get our students some industry experience by sending them these cybersecurity conferences. We can't help where they're held. Las Vegas just happens to be where they're held every year. So please, if you want to contact me and you can go to www.crediteclawing.com and ask for a date at the Cyber Ending Round. And I'm glad to hook you up with a charitable donation to our 501C3 account. So you can write it off in your taxes and give kids like these the experience they should get. Okay, Aloha everybody. Thanks for joining us from the Cyber Ending Round. Remember, stay safe. Okay, well, that's all the time we have. This is the Cyber Ending Round with Dave Stevens and some of the students at the DEF CON convention in Las Vegas, Nevada. And thanks for joining us. Aloha.