 In the heart of Silicon Valley, this is extraction point with John Furrier. Hi, I'm John Furrier, inside the cube for the extraction point with John Furrier where we get the signal out of the noise and our guest today is the CEO of Nervonix, Scott Gennaro, Scott, welcome to the cube inside my new show, Extraction Point. Thank you for being inviting me. And we are, the extraction point today is Cloud Wars. Obviously we've been covering Cloud for a long time, over the past year and a half now and now with the emphasis of big data and data and all this conversion, cloud, big data is collisioning together. There's a massive surge in this inflection point around cloud moving into compute and Scott, you're with Nervonix. Tell us about your angle on what's happening with the cloud business. You're the CEO, Nervonix is a three-year-old startup that's growing like crazy. They have great product leadership, have huge customers, they've brought you in over the past couple months, six months? Nope, actually going on four. Four months now to take it to the next level, ramp up in scale, so tell us about what's going on in the cloud business and your new role at Nervonix. Yeah, well, first of all, I'm real excited about being at Nervonix. I spent a long time looking before I came over and I came to the conclusion based on technology and what's happening in the market that it was just time. I like to tell people that I always thought Nervonix was kind of a diamond in the rough a little there. Clearly I was brought in to accelerate sales marketing, which is really kind of my expertise when you kind of net it all out. And I think, as usual, it's a normal transition from a startup, right? You start out, you're smaller, you're doing development, you move on to the next level, next level. So I'm excited about being here. I mean, obviously there's a lot going on in the industry around cloud, good, bad, or indifferent. One of the things that I find the most interesting is that cloud is so hot right now. Everyone is using the word cloud on just about everything, even if it's not cloud. I think you call it cloud, what'd you call it cloud? I call the cloud washing and actually put a little, I think link to a definition. But what do you think of cloud washing? That term is being kicked around. When I first heard it, I was like, what the heck is that about? It's like, washing doesn't sound very favorable, but what is it? It's just bullshit, cloud bullshit, or what is it? Well, there's a lot of companies out there today that are using the word cloud on solutions that aren't even cloud, you know, real cloud if you want to call it that, right? And I can go down a lot of different companies that are doing that, but the one that's most obvious to me is probably one of the largest storage companies out there and that's EMC. You know, EMC has a product called Atmos. EMC has hardware that they sell with it. But you know, when you net it all out, one of the things that's really key to the word cloud is usage-based pricing. And I think that's really important. And you know, EMC does not offer usage-based pricing. And by the way, to be fair, probably for a lot of reasons they don't, right? You know, I mean, I think it'll impact their business pretty dramatically. True cloud offerings are very, very disruptive because of usage-based type pricing. And it's not something they offer today, right? So I would argue that what they're offering today is cloud washing, right? You know, it's- Hope you're saying EMC's offering cloud washing. Yeah, it's not a true cloud offering today, right? So what are the true clouds? By the way, what they'll tell you is, is that they're offering it, their technology to companies that will offer cloud. Personally, my feeling is, is that when you offer a V-block, expensive hardware device with software wrapped around it, it's no different than probably five years ago when we had information lifecycle management out there. Right? And by the way, I was at Atachi. You know, we had similar solutions that we had at the time, the same thing. But when you have to write a big check for a million dollars upfront for a bunch of capacity that you might not use for a while, that's not cloud, no matter how you net it out. What we do, which is usage-based, multi-tendent, what we do, which is- Oops. Sorry about that. Echo. Echo there. You know, when we go through that and the flexibility- So the big private cloud, I mean, big cloud players, Amazon. Amazon. No question. No question. Google. Google doesn't really have users that free. No, actually, I mean, when I net it all out, I think there's really two areas when I look at competition for what we do, right? No, even though I just said that EMC doesn't have what I would call a true cloud offering, my personal opinion is, is that because they are who they are and they're a phenomenal marketing machine, if you want to net it all out, they can come out with nothing, right? And position it, and a lot of people look at it, right? I mean, they have a huge- Well, they had some great marketing with this last announcement and then you saw the mega ones they had. We were there covering it. Cloud meets big data, it's good positioning. It seems right, right? Right, so- That's cloud washing? Well, they're a marketing machine. It's not a true cloud offering. I guess that's my point, right? Amazon on the other side really does have a cloud offering. There's no question about that. They're S3 technology. Now what that is really is very much focused on development, development environments. It's very much focused on an environment that if you need extra capacity, it's kind of a burst area to go do that. It was a development environment created by developers for developers, right? We focus on the enterprise base and I think that's really important. And you guys, your model's all usage. It's usage-based. There's no question about it. And I also offer probably something that's very different where Amazon only offers a public cloud offering in their locations. I offer a public offering like that just like they do but with a lot more functionality around it that's for enterprise class level customers. I also have what we call hybrid cloud. And once again, some of the terminologies that I use, other people use in a different definition. Someone needs to come out with a book that says this is the real meaning of what private cloud, hybrid cloud, some of these words mean. But I have a hybrid offering and what my hybrid offering is is that I will take what I have in my public data centers if you want to call it that and I will put it into a customer's environment. Now, I'll still charge them usage-based based on what they utilize and how they do it. And I think that's important. But there are companies out there that mainly financial institutions that are probably still more risk-adverse if you want to call it that. And based on that in their environment, we offer to put it in their data center and their four walls. It's usage-based and we still manage it. So I give them all the benefits of cloud that they love but I put it in their world. So that's hybrid, right? I also can do a private cloud. And the nice thing about my hybrid cloud is that in addition to the fact that it's in their data center, you can also create a cloud federation that allows them to move into the public if they want to and you can copy from that. So I have public, I have hybrid, I have private and I also have a data mover. There's a lot of companies out there today and there's a lot of confusion in the cloud space. Sometimes people when they want to talk about cloud storage, what they want to talk about is startups out there like Nassuni and Sirtas and those types of companies, which by the way, they're appliances. They're data movers and that's what we call them. I also have a data mover called Cloud NAS. Now that being said, I'm also certified with all these guys. Talk about data mover, because a lot of people don't get what data mover is. I mean, it's a term that's used in the industry but to break that down. Yeah, so if you have, take a customer A, he's got his current data on his storage products today and his infrastructure, right? And you want to move that into the cloud. You need something to be able to move that data and that's what I call data mover. A lot of people call them appliances but there's different ones and I think it's important. First of all, there's appliances like the startups like Nassuni and Sirtas and TwinStrada and there's a handful of them out there, right? First generation products just starting to ship out there across the board. By the way, Riverbed also has one. They just came out with their own. And those are hardware type, you know, implementations, appliances. There's also companies out there like Symantec and Commvault that also have a cloud interface into cloud providers. Now for Symantec, you know, NetBackup and BackupExec, we're the only cloud provider that's integrated into that technology today. And that's important because, you know- The security points in the transition, right? Not only that, 90 to 95% of the Fortune 500 install base has that product installed. You know, they dominate in that space for backup. I mean, so it's a great partner for us to be partnered with to kind of go drive that. But you have the software companies, right? And then on top of that, there are many companies that could write to our APIs across the board and those are more application companies. So take, you know, a file net, you know, a digital, you know, media type asset manager type company could write to those and that could also move the data into it, right? But I think the important thing about the data movers and this is a terminology that we use a lot is that, you know, they're an on ramp to a freeway, right? There's nothing else there. You need the storage in the back end. You need the file system in the back end to move it to. So those companies by themselves is not cloud storage. So they're a data mover, you know, they're an appliance or software or whatever you want to call it to move that data into it. I'm the only cloud provider out there today that has an appliance, be it my own. I also have a public offering. I also have a private offering. I also have a hybrid offering. I'm cloud agnostic. I can go into any large enterprise customer and create a cloud infrastructure for them that nobody else can do. Everybody else who has a cloud offering has one of those but nobody has all of it like we do. I'm here with Scott Jenner, the CEO of Nirvana. So I'm John Furrier with siliconangle.com, siliconangle.tv on the extraction point. And we're here talking about cloud, the cloud wars to extract out the real points. And just want to point out for the folks who are watching this video, this little QR code of the bottom right hand corner of the screen you'll see there. Click on that with your camera. We're doing a little test to see who can click through on that. Get your camera out, your Android phone or iPhone, infrared that and go to the website. We're keeping track on the stats. Want to do a little test and then people will click on that and someone might be playing with in the future. Okay, so we're here with Scott Jenner, CEO of Nirvana. Scott, let's talk about Nirvonix and the marketplace. And where you guys stand as a company, vis-a-vis competition and what you're talking to your customers about. So Nirvonix, three-year-old company, classic startup situation that hits it big, gets a product, gets a team together, founding team, build some product leadership, starts getting some customers, wow, some traction. Add to the fact that the world spins in their direction with cloud being super hot and relevant with what customers want to do. So Nirvonix gets into this with a great product, good customers. Talk about that and then talk about what you're seeing now in terms of in the market. So talk about the product and the customers that you have. Right. So, as I mentioned, we can offer different solutions to customers, right? And I think that's key. Our focus is enterprise, which I think is really important. We have some very large customers. And when you look at customers today, there's a lot of companies out there who talk about that they're getting close to their 50th customer, 100th customer. We have over 700 plus customers, right? And we have everything from little SMBs. What's the top, what's the major inflection point for Nirvonix? I said, wow, this is going to be big. We need to get some leadership in and grow this puppy to a billion dollars. Right. What was that catalyst? Yeah, I think it's a couple things. Certain profile customers, certain types of deals. Well, I think it's a couple things, right? Part of it is the market. We've been around for three years and we have a very proven technology. We're on our second generation technology today. Most everyone else is just delivering their first generation. And we'll be rolling out our third generation probably in the next six to nine months. So, there's good and bad about being around for three years, right? The goodness is that we have a proven technology. We got the early adopters. We've got some very large customers. We understand this market probably better than anyone else. The interesting part about it is the fact that in the first 18 to 24 months, a lot of evangelizing, right? You're out there, you're pitching the story, you're talking about cloud. If you were sitting here 18 months ago and talked about cloud, a lot of customers would have been, oh, I'm not sure if I'm ready for that, right? Today, in the last probably 90 days, I've visited easily 30 to 40 customers prospects. I've been all over New York. I'm in New York every other week. And I will tell you that I have not walked away from one meeting where a customer wasn't interested in doing something with us, either a follow-on meeting or a proof of concept, right? So, the market's there, there's no question. So, that's one proof point, right? And then once again, for us, we can look at it and think, hey, the customer behavior of today versus 18 months ago is radically different. I have customers that we were talking to. So, they were skeptical, you're saying, 18 months ago, ah, you know, it's cloud, I might kick the tires, maybe now too, let's get some things in motion. I've got customers that we were talking to 12 months ago or 18 months ago who are now just closing business with us because they were kicking the tires, right? And now they're like, we're ready to go do this, let's go do this. So, I think that's number one. I think that's really important. I think the second thing for us has been that we've closed some very large customers. I have customers who have multiple petabytes of storage in our management of our public cloud. And I will tell you right now, I don't think anyone can claim that they have customers that have multiple petabytes of data that they're managing today for one customer, right? And we have multiple customers that have hundreds of terabytes, if not petabytes of data that we're managing today. Is there a certain vertical that you're seeing those kinds of petabytes? Is it, is it digital entertainment? Is it financial? Yeah, it's hospitals, verticals. Yeah, it's actually kind of interesting. It's a couple of things, right? First of all, archival is big. And when you look at large blocks, unstructured type of data, rich media, healthcare, biotech, those areas obviously are very big across the board. But because of our semantic relationship and because of just backup, regular backup, by definition that's really not considered unstructured large blocks of data, but it's low performance, right? You back it up, you probably never access it again. So that goes across all verticals, right? When we're talking about those types of customers and what we're doing. We're seeing a lot of play there in the financial institutions. There's a lot of interest there on what I would call typical backup type environments back to our environment. Look, talk about the marketplace as you're competing. You're going on your sales calls and you're a very competitive person, obviously being in the sales and marketing background. Amazon, I just wrote a post last week about Netflix and Amazon. They said that companies like Netflix are outsourcing using Amazon Cloud when in a sense Amazon could be a potential competitor. Amazon's big, are they too big? Some people have said, even Joe Tucci, the CEO of EMC would say SLA, it's not even in their dictionary. So how do they compete against you guys and are they hitting a glass ceiling in terms of the enterprise? Are they getting any traction there and how do you guys talk about that? Yeah, so interesting enough, I don't see Amazon a lot in the enterprise space, right? I run across a lot in that mid-tier space and clearly in what if it's a developer type environment. There's definitely some skepticism regarding Amazon and just because who Amazon is, Amazon and Google, there's a lot of people who are concerned of are they getting too big and what are they going and what they're doing. I discount that across the board. I mean, that's not what I get into. You think that's just rhetoric? Yeah, I mean, it is what it is, right? I mean, there's a generation of people who are being raised. I have two boys who are 18 and 20 and trust me, they have absolutely no issue with an Amazon or a Google, right? I'm sure there's people. And Facebook too, for that matter. Exactly, but I think the major difference between us and them when we compete against them is more around the fact that we understand how to compete and how to support an enterprise customer. There's a lot of things that we have built into our file system that allows customers to manage our infrastructure differently and I think that's really key, right? And important across the board. I think there's a lot of things that we do around security. I think there's a lot of things that we do around enterprise support. I'll give an example and it's public information. Enterprise support, Amazon just announced that they're gonna do that for $185,000 a year. I mean, I guess you can buy a body or two for that. It's pretty expensive. Our cost per gig, which is very comparable to an Amazon type model, when you look at it, compared to a customer to customer, includes an enterprise level support. We don't charge $185,000 or a couple hundred thousand dollars a year on top of it. That's ridiculous, right? It just shows you how far away and removed they are from it. They use their data centers. I mean, in theory, what they're doing is they're using extra capacity that they're not using and they're selling out, which is great. We've created a company that focuses on driving enterprise type support. And by the way, I wanna make sure it's clear. Someone asked me this question recently. Does that mean we only focus on the enterprise? And the answer is no. The benefit that you get, if you're not a total enterprise-type customer, is the fact that you get enterprise levels of service level agreements and support, even if you're not, right? Because we can offer it across the board. Yeah, I mean, it's also, you brought up a good point. What is the definition of an enterprise these days? There's always been that gray area between service provider and enterprise in this economy. Okay, so other competition. I mean, Rackspace, Zeta, they might be coming on the Cube. Obviously, you mentioned EMC. What is the big thing about Nervonix that's differentiated? I mean, you talk a lot about the product. What are the top three things you tell prospects and your clients on Nervonix? One, two, three, what is the top three? I think there's a couple things. First of all, around the competition, I tend to, once again, I see Amazon kind of at that lower development level across the board. They've done a really good job of integrating into developers, if you wanna call it that. It's small files, it's small data. It's not like big, big customers. You brought up Netflix earlier. That's the one I keep hearing. I've heard it now for the last six months. I've never heard them bring up anyone else but Netflix. First, I did read an article last week that said that they might be actually coming out with a offering that competes with Netflix, so maybe there's an opportunity there too. That's what I wrote my post about, so there's a conflict of interest. Yeah, exactly. I mean, Netflix is basically financing Amazon. Right, exactly. So it's an interesting dilemma. Supplier, turn competitor. Right. I don't see, what I compete with a lot on the enterprise level is EMC going in, they're trying to convince customers not to do cloud, usage-based, but kinda to go in and talk about implementing their software and writing a big check. So they're in their pitch in the story of private cloud, hybrid cloud, they're calling it, but the reality is, the great thing is that if I follow behind them and I say I can do that too and oh, by the way, I can offer true usage-based, it's great, right? You know, so I think that's really important. The smaller guys, you mentioned Zeta, I don't see Zeta anywhere. I know Zeta says they focus heavily on enterprise, I don't really see them. I ran into them into a conference about three months ago, I asked them who their biggest customer was. The person at the booth kinda stuttered a little throughout a 25 terabyte number, and I'm like, 25 terabytes, oh my god, that's like my SMB guys, right? So I don't know who their big customers are, I don't know what they're using. And your biggest customer is, how many petabytes? It's multi-petabytes. And you have multiple customers doing multiple- I have multiple customers that have over hundreds of plus terabytes. Okay, and so what's your annual sales now? And we don't disclose that. Privately owned company, interesting enough, nobody discloses this information, including Amazon. And it's not something that we- But you're not giving, I mean, you got over 700 plus customers, multiple customers over hundreds of petabytes, I mean- 100 terabytes. 100 terabytes, I mean petabytes. Right. You're not giving the product away for free. No, no, no. You're making some money. We make good margin. You guys are doing pretty well financially. Yeah, I mean, our plan is to continue to grow. We're hiring salespeople, SCs, we're currently continuing to invest in engineering. We've brought in a new marketing team. Obviously we're out non-disclosing and doing briefings across the board. Do you think the cloud washing is going to kind of die down a bit and the hype will kind of turn into reality? I mean, talk about growth from your perspective. Because you're on the streets, you're seeing the signals. Do you feel the thermal coming in, the growth hitting right now, you mentioned it. I mean, where do you peg the evolution of the hype cycle? Then it hits the trough and then it kicks up again. Are we in that uptick? Yeah, I think we saw a lot of hype over the last 12 months, cloud, cloud, cloud. I also think a lot of the cloud conversation has been around cloud compute. Once again, that's another one. I get a lot of conversation with the people and they want to talk about cloud and they're really talking about cloud compute, right? We offer cloud storage. We don't offer cloud compute. We offer cloud storage that's standalone. You can't put it to cloud compute if you want to. But most companies do not offer cloud storage by itself. They offer cloud storage that's attached to cloud compute. And the reason I bring that up is because a lot of our billing capabilities, a lot of our management tools and everything else are different when you're managing storage by itself versus it being attached to, you know. You're obviously here alive in Palo Alto. We're at the Cloud Air office where we sublease and we co-locate with the guys from the Hadoop community. They're seeing that same thing. I mean, it's all about storage and the scuttle butt in the community of the Alpha Geeks in Silicon Valley and beyond is that there's an abundance of compute. Storage is the real issue and cloud does provide that and Hadoop is just one example of the open source way to go and you guys are another. It doesn't seem to me that we've been covering storage for a while, Dave Vellante and I in particular. There hasn't been a lot of talk about storage clouds. It's been kind of clouds in general. Well, once again, I think, and that's the issue, right? And in the industry, I mean, there's cloud washing which is everybody putting the name cloud on everything, right, that's different. And then there's just everyone putting the bucket in. It goes back to my point around the appliances. I mean, I've actually met with customers who said, well, I'm talking to this company and this company and I go, so where are you going to put your data? Well, what do you mean? Well, there is no storage on the back end of that appliance, right? They're like, oh, see, so there's a lot of confusion still in that industry. I'll give you a different example. I was with a customer and they were talking about, they were going to go to a company, a service provider and they were going to get cloud storage and they said it was three par, right? And by the way, three par is a great product. Now HP. Yeah, so the interesting part was is that they couldn't get it unless they bought compute. But three par has done a phenomenal job, or HP three par, have done a phenomenal job of attaching that product to cloud compute in the service providers. The problem is, is that if a customer just wants storage, they can't get it. They have to buy compute to get to the storage, right? That's very different. Customers today want a choice and they want it all across the board, right? And I think that's very different. When does a company, let me ask you this question differently, let me ask you this differently. What's your sales again? What's my sales again? A lot. Hundreds of millions of dollars. Now seriously, have you heard what's going on? You mentioned Riverbed, right? What's going on with these guys? I mean, you'd mentioned them earlier. Do they have a cloud play and what is it? Yeah, so Riverbed has an appliance, right? It's a data mover if you want to call it that. Certified with our product. It's a great product. Riverbed's a good company. I wouldn't underestimate Riverbed. I think they're going to be extremely aggressive and I think they're going to go after that market pretty hard. What's their cloud push? I've been hearing Scuddlebots about some things. Well, their cloud push for what we interface with them is, once again, it's the data mover, right? They've put DDoop in there. They've put compression in there. They've put some cool functionality in there across the board and I think that's important, so. What's the size of the cloud market and what's at stake in terms of the opportunity? So there's a lot of numbers out there and some of them are. Cloud stores, you can break it down if you have any. So the last numbers I saw from IDC, right, was roughly about 7.8 billion just for storage across the board by 2014. And I think the point is is that that's a big number, right? You asked me a question earlier. I thought it was interesting. I want to go back to you real quick. Sure, absolutely. So Amazon. I think Amazon in the market is actually good for me and I'll tell you why. Is that normally when an emerging market pops up, there's four or five startups, right? And they do a couple million and then they go to four million and then they go to 10 and 20 and 50 and eventually after three or four or five years, you've got four or five companies out there, couple that have done extremely well and they either go public or they get bought, right? Across the board. Amazon creates an interesting dynamic because they're not a small company and they have a lot of money. So unlike four little startups who are trying to get their fair share and eventually one of them or two of them pop up to be the big guy, you've got a situation now where you've got a company out there that has a lot of money that's a big threat to, I'll call the bigger guys, the HPs, the IBMs of the world. If you believe the numbers out there that these guys, and by the way, when I talk about cloud, I'm talking about cloud compute and cloud storage, right? You know, I mean 500 million to a billion five to two billion to three billion. Some of the numbers are pretty gigantic. These guys are taking it from someone and the people they're taking it from is IBM or HP or Dell or one of these big guys. So what does that leave? So if they wanna have an offering that's competitive to what Amazon is offering, who do they partner with? It makes a lot of sense for them to be partnering with us. I have a relationship with Dell today, I have a relationship with HP today. So you guys are rolling up a lot of the emerging players and so it's from what you're saying is the strategy is having that big 800 pound gorilla in Amazon out there, you get the access to these emerging technologies and new opportunities. And then the semantics of the world with the existing players, right? Yep, no, yeah, I mean, I think there's a real opportunity there across the board. And it creates a real threat day one to these bigger guys that they've gotta react to it probably a lot quicker than they normally would have in a traditional startup emerging market. What does that mean for the marketplace in terms of configuration? You know, you're talking about like smaller players, partnerships, you mentioned semantic. I mean, Seminix is not a small company, McAfee just got sucked into Intel, I was announced today, finally approved. Does it change, does this new environment change how people are going to do business? Is it more partnering? Is it better to be nimble? What's your view on the marketplace? Kind of the horses that are on the track, what's happening? Yeah, well, there's a huge consolidation going on already which is interesting, right? I mean, Terremark got bought by Verizon. Who would have thought Verizon would have bought a cloud? I mean, if you read the information it was because of their cloud offerings, right? So Telco bought that, the moment that happened another Telco turned around and bought somebody else, right? So I think you're gonna see a lot of different interesting players emerge here. The Telcos as service providers create competition for what, IBM Global Services. They create competition for EDS for HP, right? It creates a different dynamic out there than before. And they're clearly making investments to go do that. I mean, the Terremark acquisition was what, 1.5 billion or something? That's not a small little couple hundred million dollar acquisition. I mean, they're clearly seriously going after it. So I think it creates a whole different dynamic out there. Today, we look at and say that when you kind of net it all out, we used to always say when I was at Atachi and I was at Atachi data systems for a while, we used to sit there in a room and go, okay, it's HP, it's Dell, it's NetApp, it's EMC. We could be sitting here in three or four years from now and saying that it's Nervonix, it's Amazon, it's some of these service providers that are really driving this. And it'll be an interesting change in the market. And you guys certainly have been getting a lot of press lately since you came on board. We're here with Scott Genero, the CEO of Nervonix. Emerging fast growing cloud player, really in the, I don't want to call it private hybrid cloud, but secure storage cloud reliable with kind of SLA enterprise-like feel to it. Two final questions for you, Scott. I don't, can't disclose my revenue, sorry. Oh, sorry. No, I already got that. I'm working around them, kind of dancing around. I got 700 customers who are doing the math in my head. 700 plus. 700 plus customers, 701, okay. Editing them all the time. I'm changing this, petabyte, volume, usage base, I'm just doing the math, okay. So you got 700 plus customers, good product leadership. Now you got a market growth plan that you're kicking into high gear, no doubt about that. Two things, one, what have you guys learned from working with 700 customers at that kind of level with petabyte, kind of storage and scale? And then you mentioned SMB. What have you learned from that around what's it takes to provide a product and value in the market? Two, what's your plans going forward? So I think the key is, is that this isn't something you can just pop in and walk away from. On the low end, when you're talking to SMB customers and stuff, it's easy. By the way, you could go to my website, just flip a credit card and get a terabyte tomorrow for your home usage if you really wanted to, right? I mean, we do everything from that all the way up to the big support. But I want to go back to the reason, there's a lot of differentiation of what we do when we support an enterprise customer that I think is important. And part of it is this concept that we own the total stack, right? And I think that's really key. Explain that. Well, once again, we have a data mover, right? We can do public, we can do private. We can do private into the public once a customer already has all of that. It gives a customer a lot of flexibility to be able to manage that. And it also allows us to tune our products and make sure they're tuned for the enterprise space around performance capabilities and feature and function capability, right? You know, and I think the key here is that cookie-cuttering a cloud, as much as we want to say go put the data off somewhere and you don't have to worry about it anymore, customers do worry about it. We approach cloud as another tier of storage, right? And it doesn't matter that if it's in their data center or if it's in my data center, it's another tier of storage. And when you think of it as another tier of storage, there are things that customers want to be able to manage and understand. And I think that's really important, you know, that we offer an enterprise-class cloud that's very different. I'll give you an example. And what you've learned over the past 700 customers later is what? That it's scale matters, support matters. Is that what you're saying? Scale, support, you know, flexibility. I think that's key. Is that we have customers who have direct, you know, lines, you know, networking lines straight into our data center, right? We allow that to happen today. Some of our competitors won't let that happen, right? I think that's really key across the board. You know. So you do whatever it takes to integrate to the client. Whatever makes sense for the client, you'll do. Our offering is a service offering, right? It's not a box. And I think that's very, very different. We're not just selling capacity. We're offering a solution and a service. And when you do that, there is some stuff. I mean, I was meeting with a large prospect right up the street here, you know, before I came over. And, you know. Facebook? No, sorry. I can't disclose that information. But the interesting part is that, as we went through it, yeah, you can name probably 500 customers. Frank Lichrone. But when you net it all out, it's really interesting because, you know, they first set, what's the price? We kind of went down that path and I said, look, by the time we were done, we came up with three or four potential use cases. And we said, we need to come back in and really price this out and model it out because it's petabytes and petabytes of data they're trying to figure out how to store. It's a nightmare for them to store it. They're trying to figure out what to do and how to do it. But I think the interesting thing about it is that- And you were the white knight for them, right? Well, the interesting about it is because I'm not just offering, here's my public cloud, go put it in there. Because if I had done that, they would never even have met with me. But because I said I can do all these different things and I can basically structure a solution for them that makes a lot of sense, we had that meeting. They were hesitant when we walked in, like, I don't think you can do this. By the time we walked out, we've got our follow-up meeting and they want to come in and they used to do that. So you guys are getting the high end of the market. That's really, really, really cool. That's what we focus in on. Yeah. And I think that's important. I think- But you're not going to shut down the mid-range and the SMB. No, not at all. But most of your success is at the high end. Well, yeah, I think the point is, is that most of our revenue and high margin comes from, you know what I mean, the higher end. And what percentage of your business is high end? Revenue-wise, a lot. OK, 38% of the high end, 7% of the customers. 50 million in revenue. I think the other thing that's very different for us versus some of our competitors is I get asked the question a lot about uploads and downloads. Are you charging me for uploading my data and downloading my data? And I don't. I give one cost across the board. And that includes uploads, downloads, cost per gig. It includes maintenance. It also includes tech refreshes. And I think this is an important part, and it really is resonating with customers across the board. Every two and a half, three years, and I was one of these people, right, I'd walk in the door of my install base and I would say, hey, warranty's coming due. Got this big bill, you know, at the end, you're either going to have to start paying that. Or, magically, I'll figure out how to give you a tech refresh, give you new storage with some new features and functions, and you can move the data over. So if it was high availability, high performance type of data, you might argue, OK, that makes a lot of sense. But only 20% to 25% of most customers' data is that type of data. For the type of data that we're talking about, which is lower performance archival type infrastructure, which, interestingly enough, is about 65% of the data that's being created today. And it's growing at 10x, right? So it's the biggest piece of data that customers are creating and what they're doing. But in that world, feature, function, all of that kind of stuff, isn't really important. What they want is a very reliable low-cost option to be able to do that. So in a tech refresh, if you think about it, if you spent $500,000 for X amount of storage, basically in about two and a half, three years, you're going to spend $500,000 again. Maybe it's $490,000, right? And then in another three years, you're going to spend it again. And that feature, function, higher performance for this type of data is meaningless to me. And oh, by the way, I've made you move 50 to 100 terabytes every three years. It's a nightmare. Customers don't want that. For this type of data, they want something reliable that they can put out there for 10 years because the government requires it. The management cost is a cost of management. So there's a huge cost to do this. So your plan's going forward. I mean, honestly, first of all, just to kind of get the questions out of the way, have you been approached about M&A? Have you been approached to be bought? Are you approaching me right now? No, I mean, it's the big guys. I mean, honestly, the M&A market right now is pretty hot. You guys have a great product. Have anyone knocked on your door and say, hey, you guys, it's a good deal. IBM's been buying companies that are good prices. So you guys aren't public yet. You're private. Any offers? No comment? No comment, not that I'm aware of. I think the important point, and I'll answer your other question, which kind of answers this question, too, in a different way. People are looking for this kind of solution. The big guys, the holes in the product lines. And we have a great solution, right? And if you know. At the right price, you know, standard CEO line. Yeah, exactly. But our plan is we're expanding our sales organization pretty aggressively. We're rolling out a new channel program in the next quarter. We think there's a huge play in the channel. By the way, Amazon doesn't play in the channel. We think there's a huge play in the channel across the board. We want to integrate deeper with our current OEM partners and create a stickiness of being able to come out with a combined solution that makes a lot of sense. And then we're developing our third generation of product. We're currently in the process of doing that. We're going to roll that out in the next six to 12 months. So our plan is to keep this guy rolling. We think the market is here. We think the customers are ready. We think we have the install base to do it. In the next 12 months, we'll probably go out for another round of funding, which is kind of per plan as what we want to do. And our plan is to grow, and grow, and grow, and grow. You guys are doing good. You're certainly hot. The product has been successful. I mean, I think the big testament to 700-plus clients. I mean, it's a great market. It's growing. But to have that kind of number of clients is pretty amazing. So congratulations. Thank you. And we're here with Scott Jenner, the CEO of Nirvonix. Hot startup in the cloud storage market. It's hot. People are looking for these kinds of solutions, especially enterprise grade with reliability and quality. And obviously, the big guys out there like Amazon have been very successful with developers. And usage-based pricing is the model. Congratulations. That's it from the extraction point. I'm John Furrier.