 All right, we now welcome one of the internet's top basketball minds, also great background. Co-host of Through the Wire podcast and the Kenny Beacham podcast and one of Fandall's newest partners, Kenny Beacham joins us now. Welcome to the family, first and foremost, but we got to talk Chicago Bulls. I think all of us growing up, that was probably our favorite team, but it's yours. And they're 5 and 14. What do you do with this team? Blow it up? I think that's the only way to go at this point. You know, as a guy that has watched every single Bulls game for the last five years, this is the least amount of fun I've had. And we've had real tanking seasons in that five years. So I think when you put together a roster that with the idea of competing and you're struggling to compete every single night, the writing is on the wall that something needs to change. So I'm just, I'm waiting for the shams update that something has changed. Just so we all are. Wait, can I ask one thing? Because when you're a fan of the team, who's at some point going to have a fire sale, probably, do you also sort of speculate like, where's Zach Levine going to go? Or do you just want it done and over with and have your new team in place? I am always on the trade machine. Always on the trade machine, trying to figure out, does it make sense for this team? Does it make sense for us? I am prepared for whatever the trades are to not be very beneficial to us. So if it does end up being beneficial, then it's a win-win. But I'm always looking around the league like, hold on, maybe he's unhappy. Maybe we can get that guy. I'm always here. We need something. We just need something. Kenny, as a Bulls guy, I played for Billy Donovan for four years. Do you think he's the right fit for this either rebuild or process that you guys are going through? Well, I remember when he left, okay, see, one of the main reasons was because they were going towards the rebuild. So I don't know if that's his priority. Like I think he wants to coach a competing team. I enjoy Billy Donovan as a coach. I mean, you can speak to it, but it seems like he is a guy that can get the team behind him. Obviously, he's had his points of contention with like Zach Levine. But for the most part with the younger guy, specifically, I feel like they enjoy playing for him. And if we're doing a rebuild, I'm assuming that we're getting young guys back. So it might be the fit, but I don't know if he'll want to be there. Yeah. And this end season tournament, obviously, there's multiple different opinions on it. The other night, the Celtics, they went to hack a drum. And obviously that could be the new norm now at the point differential. What's your take on that? Do you think there should be any changes to that tournament? Do you like it? Do you hate it? I loved it. If there's one thing I would change, I would maybe open the pool to like 10 teams just so we could have another knockout game because I love like winter go home scenarios. We see that with the off season or the post season tournament. We're like, man, this one game means we can make it or we go into the off season. Right. So I would extend that. I like the idea of teams playing hard for 82 minutes, even if that means they're up by 30 points because of the point differential. And I know there's a lot of conversation about the unspoken rule as someone that's never really played professional basketball. I don't really look at it like that. So when they went hack a drumming, I'm like, well, drumming, let's, let's make some free throws, baby. You know, that's what my head was at instead of being mad at Joe Mozzula. That's the thing. The civilians like us, we like the point differential because we're like merciless and you guys actually have respect for your opponents. I think that's what I noticed now. See, I said the other day, though, when the warriors are playing the Kings, they were so worried about this 12 point differential that they played fast and they lost, they just lost the game instead of trying, you know what I mean? So it's, you got to be careful. I love it. Kenny, so you say you've been messing around on the trade machine. So I want to know what trade would you make? Well, what's on the higher, you know, hierarchy of your trade request list for your bulls? That's the thing, Shams. I think that because I'm a bulls fan, I'm a bit biased towards my bulls. So because of that, I may value Zach Levine a little bit higher than maybe consensus. So I'm not looking at a trade that's like, oh, we're going to get a really gold bear type trade package, Kevin DeRent trade package, because that's not what the value of Zach Levine is. At this point, I just think the locker room needs to be shaken up. So if that means we get a couple young role players and maybe a protective first round pick, I'm not going to love it, but I'll be okay with it because everybody's walking around with their head down. I'm not seeing half fives. Like Steve Nash gave out a lot of half fives in his time. I'm not seeing a lot of those here in Chicago. So I just, I just want something to change Shams. And I think the city will be happier when it happens. So speaking of the bulls again, who's on your Mount Rushmore? Yes. All time bulls history. Obviously we know about George. We know about Ben. We know about the Rose. Yeah. What's your mom? MJ, MJ, MJ, MJ. So there is a, I think a official Mount Rushmore in Chicago bulls fandom, but I have my own personal one. Of course we're going to have MJ, Scotty, Derek Rose, and I have Jamal Crawford there because my first memory as an NBA fan or as a, as a kid is watching Jamal Crawford go against Allen Iverson in a game in April. And I think Jamal had 30, AI had 40. And here in Chicago, at that time, if you're to have cable, the only thing you could watch is Bulls basketball. And that two year span when he was in Chicago, I was watching Knightley. And at that point I had to be like eight years old. So he helped me fall in love with the game. So even though his time in Chicago was just a few years, it mattered a bunch to me. Oh, I love it. Shams, who's yours? Yeah, right? I got to have Joe Keem know what the five in there, right? I love that. Give me him, Robin, Pippin, MJ, he's got to be Rose. Yeah, I mean, he's, Joe Keem's got to be your son. He's got to be. What? I'm not going to complain about that. He's my favorite. Do you retire? Do you retire? Do you Rose, Joe Keem, Luol Deng? Like, do you retire those guys? Without actually getting the jewelry, I think it's a little bit tougher. I mean, Chicago has been pretty stingy with retiring jerseys historically. If it was up to me, I would because that era was the best I got to see as a Bulls fan. Born in 96, I didn't really get to experience the second three Pete. So that the couple years we were the one seed and we thought we had his hands against Miami. Like that was really, really fun years for me. And to see like the one year where D Rose was out and Joe Keem know, stepped up, ends up fourth in MVP voted. He has my heart, you know, as a Bulls fan, but I don't know if it really makes sense long term. Kenny, I'm about to ask a question. I can honestly say I've never asked anyone in my entire life. Okay. Why do you have Chris Paul as one of your favorite players of all time? So, okay. So growing up, like everybody, I hope dreams, you know, moms, it's like five to pops is a five, 10. So I'm like, I know I'm not going to get really tall. And I saw Chris Paul is a guy that was watering six foot, dominating the game. I'm like, this is the guy that I want to play like, I wasn't in a gym enough to have the handle or the vision or the leadership. So I was like, okay, I'm going to take a step back as trying to play ball, but just admirable. And Chris Paul is the guy like, like when he was in with the Hornets, like that was prime fandom for me growing up. And I watched, obviously didn't have cable. So watch all the highlights I could. And to this day, once a year later, I still can't get away from it watching him. It's still fun for me at least. That's okay. So I have a theory like there are some players across all of sports that are just, they have some sort of a jinx or a curse and they're never going to get a ring. I've always had Chris Paul in that category for myself. Do you think he's going to get one before he's done? He ain't getting it this year. He's not getting it this year. And you know what, going into the season, I thought there was a possibility. They started off pretty hot. The first time in Steph Curry's career where they have a positive point differential when he sat, a lot of that was Chris Paul running with the second unit. I'm like, this could be the year, but these last two weeks, these last two to three weeks, just like it's not happening. And now again, historically, he struggled injury. These later parts of his career, we're seeing that pop up again. I don't think it's going to happen, unfortunately, but everyone doesn't get a ring. You can still be great without the jewelry, in my opinion. Kenny, what's your take on the feud between right now, Chris Paul and Scott Foster, which we've seen again flare up over the next week? I think it's, I think it's comedy, honestly. Like I can't help but to tune into those games. If I know that, like this is the only time that I care about who's officiating the basketball game, you know, for better or for worse. You know, we're here for the basketball players, but if we see Foster there and Chris Paul there, we know something is going to happen. It's going to be an ejection is going to be an argument is going to be a Chris Paul loss historically. It's fun, but I understand the frustrations from everybody that's actually rooting for the team that Chris Paul is on to see him get ejected for some words. It's not great, but again, the NBA is also like a drama and that's part of it. I know. It's like wrestling when those two are. I never thought about that. It could be the Warriors Pistons on a Wednesday of Scott Foster's ref and I'm tuning in because I want to see the fireworks. Like I know everyone's like he shouldn't ref CP games, but you just said it. Like it's kind of this added bonus. And then you got Draymond Green in all of it. So there's more drama to talk about. He finally gets back from the five game suspension and then turns around the fourth quarter and gets a technical. There's there are so many differing opinions on Draymond and that team, but for you, for your money, your opinion, is he too much of a distraction? It's easier to say that now than previous years, right? You were willing to put up with Draymond's antics because at the end of the day, when Draymond, Steph and Clay played together, they were virtually unstoppable. Now that we see them slow down collectively, everybody is set for Steph. Steph is doing his thing. See the rest of them slow down. You're like, are the antics really, really worth it at the end of the day? And part of the reason why Draymond Green was worth it because it was because of the defense, right? The defense was old world. And so far this season, we haven't seen that version of Dray. So it's like, this is a team that can't afford to not be one of the top six teams. The last time they were a playing team back in 2020 2021 season, they had the one game to win and they lost both and they were on the outside looking in. Now, they followed that up in an NBA championship, but this version of this team is not the same as then. So Draymond Green, it's hard to tell a player after 10 years of antics that he has to tone it back a little bit, but it is time that we get more just production on court and not the other stuff. The tech that led to what, a 13 to six runs and then a game winner. It hasn't been great. No, yep. Kenny, last week, I saw something I've never seen before in that Spurs Clippers game where this man pop grabs them by this man. Pop like it's a high school basketball game and tells the the crowd to stop booing. Do you think he, he should be, he can do that. Do you agree with it? Do you think booing is part of the game? Cause I think it's bogus. I, I agree with the idea that if I am a paying customer, I should be able to boo. Like I think that's the, that's the maximum, right? We're not calling Kawhi out of his name. We're not doing anything extra, but booing is just a part of sports in general. It could have been anybody at that line. This is the opposing team. I'm rooting for the Spurs. I'm going to boo. It was, it was different, right? There's nobody in the game as far as coaching goes that I respect more than Greg Poppits, but this was just one. I was like, the few times in Poppits career that I say, I don't agree with them. Like let the fans that pay the money do what they can do. Come to think about it, when I played in Memphis, my home crowd booed me and my own coach didn't even tell them to stop. Can I, can I, you should have learned from that. Yeah, they probably should have booed me, but what, my own coach. You're not likable. Do you not get that? Fisdale, Jimmy Picker staff, I'm off you. I'm off though. They could have had my back. Jimmy should have grabbed the mic. Yeah. You kidding me? My home crowd booing me. Maybe they agreed with the crowd. Oh, wow. That's, where's that been? We need that more home crowd. I love that. I can't dodge it. So Kenny, you've talked about surprising small market teams. We've seen the rise of the thunder this year. What do you think their ceiling is, uh, you know, this season? It's, um, pretty, pretty high. It's higher than I anticipated going into it. I think that I was a bit of a skeptic when it came to Chet Holmgren. Not because of him himself, but just for the fact that he is a first year player, right? It's rare that we see a first year player, especially at the center position, be as impactful as he has, where if you look at like, I'm also kind of like a numbers nerd for the people. I don't know if everybody agrees with that. But you look at like EPM, he's like six in the entire league behind people like Shade, behind people like Yolkitsch and indeed and some of the best players in basketball that he's been able to hold it down. And it's 2.2 blocks per game doesn't tell the full story of his defensive versatility. So I think that adding a guy like him, we finally get spacing for shake yourself, Alexander, something that he's been able to average 30 points per game without it. Like it's really, really high. Obviously, they got a cloud over the organization at the moment. But if they settled that out, I think this really is a team that other teams that are used to being in that situation are not going to be looking forward to playing in the playoffs. Kenny, I gotta say, man, I'm impressed. I love the way you dissect things. That was really well done. So now I want your opinion on the Kingsman. They're 10 and seven. They're eight and four when Darren Fox plays. I didn't have on my top five point guard list. Lou did. Who's your top five point guards in the NBA right now? And the reason I didn't is because I counted Luca as a point guard. Yep. As you should, as you should, you put me on the spot here. I think Steph Curry is still the best point guard in basketball. I guess I'll put Luca to right. If we're counting Shade, I think that he has to follow me right here. One, two, three. After that, I think it gets a little bit more difficult. It's a little bit more difficult. Like Damian Lillard historically deserves to be in the spine. He's starting to put it together. So I may put him at four just out of respect. Halliburton. After that, I think I went Tyrese. Too many. I think I threw in Max. I think I panicked and put Maxi. And Kenny and fairness, our top five lists are usually seven long. So if you want to, if you want to go ahead and choose, well, I always say, I always say the realm of top five instead of giving a job, you know, he's not playing about him. Stop. Yeah. You can't reward. I would say something like the area. Fox is the top five ish point guard in basketball. And there's Kyrie. There's Jalen Brunson. There's so many. Now it's crazy. Game's in a good spot. Now. So now we're back on the top 10 again. Timberwolves 13 and four. One of those teams that's starting off the season hot been fun to watch. But are you buying it? Are they for real? I feel vindicated because I am a guy that has always said that Rudy Gobert is the best offensive player in basketball. And when he got traded to Minnesota, I was like, I didn't love the trade because it was a lot of capital. It was a lot of good players. But I was like, this is a team that was like 20 second in defense last year. They were towards the bottom of the league in the fits of rebounded where Rudy Gobert does that. And last year, it was a disappointment. Courtney Townsend was out for the offseason, then got injured in November. And they struggled. Like they ended up making a playoff spot. But for the most part, when you pay that much draft capital, you pay all of that. That's not what your ceiling is. And now we're seeing that Rudy Gobert was injured last season. He was trying to adjust. And they're rolling. Do I buy it as like a real team that I'm appearing in the playoffs? We still have to see that. But if there was any team last year that played the Denver Nuggets. Well, it was them in the first round. Like they have the pieces to maybe slow down that with the double big lineup. I'm going to say because Anthony Edwards is such a stud and Courtney Townsend is like a good version of himself. Again, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. But there are a few teams that I might put above them come play off time. Kenny, another team, I think, taking the next step, the Orlando Magic, eight wins in a row. Are they for real? Are you buying them as a home court advantage type of team? No, I'm not putting them in the home court advantage, but I'm buying them as a genuine playoff team. I think that the way Jamal Moseley had them guys playing, they have finally a identity. I think that when you have a rebuilding team, that's one of the hardest things to figure out. Who are we as a collective and they're hanging their hat on the defensive side of the ball. And if you look at the last six or seven games are doing this win streak, Palo is looking a lot better. Franz is looking a lot better. And they have the blue guys like Jaylen Suggs who can give you a highlight throwing a lob to another point. It's a fun team to watch, but they still do have things that they struggle with, like half court offense. And if we're talking about the playoffs, half court offense is extremely important. So I am enjoying that the Orlando Magic have finally turned the corner, but I'm not seeing them as a top four seed in the Eastern Conference. The early season fun stories so far. Oh, okay, negative for a second. There are some bad teams. We've talked about one already this morning. Who's the most unwatchable? This season. It has to be Detroit. It has to be Detroit. I know I sat down and watched the tank balls. What a lot of people are calling it the Wizards versus the Pistons watched the entire thing. No cuts, no distractions. I'm like, I need to really figure out what's going on in Detroit. It's not pretty. It's K Cunningham trying to create for himself and others, but the people that he's creating for don't, they're not real threats. Or like even the guys that we consider positive three point shooters now, like Isaiah Stewart, the other teams are not respecting because if he beats us, then that's okay. Well, I like watching the star Thompson play. He's a fun story. But for the most part, you got a guy like Monty Williams coming in to change the identity. This is not the direction they thought they were going to go in. They have won above 500 seasons since 2008 since since Obama was in office. Like think about that lifetime ago. So it's a team that has been looking for change and they thought that they found it and they haven't. Well, you know, I'm kind of glad you mentioned Washington there. The Jordan pool experience for you has been what? It's been amazing. It's been amazing. And not in the traditional sense, not in the Steph Curry, LeBron James sense amazing. Like, you don't know what you're going to get any day of the week. Is he going to watch his coach draw play in the huddle? Is he not? Is he going to blow kisses to the audience when they're down by 26? Is he throwing it off the backboard while down by 30? Like, you never really know. It's like the rocks, just this crazy ride that no one can predict. I kind of love it. And for your money, the best league pass team is who? The best league pass team. So I don't want to pick one at a time. I don't want to pick the Lakers or the Boston Celtics. They have a bunch of games on national TV. I might still have to go with Sacramento, honestly. They're brand of basketball, free flowing, a bunch of passes. The Montessor-Bone is playing as the hub. They were my number one league pass team last year. And I'm going to go two years in a row. They went in it. I like that one. That was a good one. I mean, if you don't pick the Spurs, obviously, Kenny, we're going to have you on throughout the rest of the season. We very much are looking forward to it. Thanks for the time this morning. It's going to be good. Thank you guys. Thank you.